It’s Okay to Apologize to Your Kids with Serena Williams

In this special live IMO episode, tennis legend Serena Williams joins Michelle to talk about all things motherhood. They swap stories about their fertility journeys, experience raising daughters, and the lessons they learned from their own moms. Plus, Serena shares what it was like to win a grand slam while pregnant! Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com http://imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Michelle Obama?

  Serena, tell us if you feel comfortable about your conception journey. I mean, you...

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Well, one thing I... Well, that is definitely... I've never had that subject.

• 0:10Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  That's kind of intimate.

• 0:13Michelle Obama?

  Well, you know, it's true.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Well...

• 0:18Michelle Obama?

  But we're with moms. And this is only going to air to millions of people. It's just between us girls.

• 0:27Speaker 01

  Well, we were in Rome.

• 0:36Michelle Obama?

  And...

• 0:49Michelle Obama?

  This episode is brought to you by Chase Home Lending. Hey there, hi there, moms.

• 0:59Michelle Obama?

  Hey, Serena girl.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  Hey.

• 1:02Michelle Obama?

  What's happening? First of all, let me start by thanking Steve and Connie Balmer and the entire L.A. Clippers organization for hosting us today. They are wonderful. Let's give them a round of applause. And you guys have been great partners to us personally, and we are incredibly grateful to be working with you. So, thank you. We're here today to talk about my favorite subject, motherhood, with some of my favorite people, mothers, right? And what better guest to have? Not just one of the greatest athletes in the world, but...

• 1:52Michelle Obama?

  One of the greatest mothers in the world.

• 2:00Michelle Obama?

  Because we're backstage and I'm like, how are the girls? And this one, you know, you couldn't, you can't even say their names without just, just feeling it, right?

• 2:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're pretty special.

• 2:16Michelle Obama?

  So we're going to talk about motherhood, our motherhood journeys, and so much more. But I want to begin with just a fundamental question. I don't know about you, I've done a lot in life. I have accomplished things, degrees and all the things. And I always knew that I wanted to have a career, I wanted to have an impact. But the one thing I always, always knew I wanted to be was a mother. For sure. I mean, it is the most important thing. And I knew that from a long, long time. And that's not always true.

• 2:58Michelle Obama?

  I mean, we all come to motherhood in different ways, for different reasons. And there is no right way to be a mother, that's for sure. That's all I've learned. But I'm wondering, Serena, did you feel that way? Did you always want to be a mother?

• 3:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, actually, I've always wanted to be a mom. I didn't know, you know, there's a lot of things involved with becoming a mom, but I always knew that I wanted to be a mom, even when I was young. Playing with my dolls. You know, I was always the one that just wanted to have kids. So it's always been something that I've always knew throughout my life. And I didn't know when, you know, I just didn't know when it was going to happen. But I always knew that there was one goal that I just definitely wanted to reach. And that was becoming a mom.

• 3:46Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. And then you start trying to be a mom, which I did. And I, you know, I, what they never, what I was never told was that the biological clock was real.

• 4:01Michelle Obama?

  And I try to tell a lot of young people that, a lot of young women, that that clock is real. And Barack and I, we married in our late twenties, took our time hanging tough, and then we started working on conceiving. I got pregnant once and miscarried, which was devastating. And then we tried and tried and tried, and we had to do IVF for both girls. Which, you know, it becomes, it's more of a thing than I knew then. I think more young women are talking about their conception journey, that it's not always guaranteed.

• 4:41Michelle Obama?

  But Serena, tell us if you feel comfortable about your conception journey. I mean, you-

• 4:48Speaker 01

  Well, one thing I, well, that is definitely, I've never had that subject.

• 4:51Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  That's kind of intimate.

• 4:54Michelle Obama?

  Well, you know, it's true.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Well-

• 5:00Michelle Obama?

  But we're with moms.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  We were in-

• 5:02Michelle Obama?

  And this is only going to air to millions of people, so. It's just between us girls.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Well, we were in Rome.

• 5:13Michelle Obama?

  And?

• 5:19Speaker 01

  One thing led to another. And then nine months later.

• 5:30Michelle Obama?

  So, but you were pregnant while you were still, so were you, were you trying?

• 5:37Speaker 01

  No, I wasn't trying to have a kid at the time, but-

• 5:41Michelle Obama?

  But you were not not trying, clearly.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  Apparently. But you know what's so interesting about what you said about the biological clock? I tell all my friends-

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Of age, freeze your eggs.

• 5:57Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Cause I just feel like that is the best thing that you can do as a woman as you decide to go on this journey like. I feel like, I did that and I.

• 6:07Michelle Obama?

  You, you froze.

• 6:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I froze my eggs and I felt like. Once I did it, cause I was still playing professional tennis and you know, I felt like I wasn't ready to stop and I wanted to keep going and you know, it just wasn't time and then. All of a sudden, all this pressure came off of my shoulders, like it was just all this weight just fell off my shoulders once. I did that, then I told a lot, ever, ever since then, I told everyone to do it and someone.

• 6:32Michelle Obama?

  How old were you when you?

• 6:34Speaker 01

  I was in my twenties, I was like twenty seven, twenty eight, so. So it was, it was a really good time to do it and also um, someone told me to do it, so I always felt like it was really important for me to pay that forward. Cause then nowadays with technology, there's just so much that you can do.

• 6:50Michelle Obama?

  Yep.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  Like you said, even with IVF, which you know, is also such a great journey as well and um. You know, I just felt like, I just felt so much better, I just felt so much better.

• 7:02Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  That I actually had that option, so um, yeah, so we had, that's what we were able to do as well, so.

• 7:08Michelle Obama?

  I mean, there's so much pressure on women just to, you know, I mean, you know, if you don't get, get that part right. There's still a feeling that something is missing. I don't know about all of you, but I know that when I struggled to conceive. I took that on, like a personal failure.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  I mean, I don't think that we have that conversation enough about how many times that. Either you conceive and you have a miscarriage or whether you conceive and it doesn't work.

• 7:40Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  So I feel like the only times it work when you're not trying to conceive, but.

• 7:45Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  It just, I think that's just a really important part of just being a woman and it just. All these things, I'm all about just breaking down these walls and talking about the uncomfortable and making them comfortable and talking about things that.

• 7:58Michelle Obama?

  So you could tell us more about Rome, but it's okay.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Not that, now that's a different type of conversation. I wasn't sure we were here for that.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  So it was, I don't know, I just feel like a lot of people aren't really, women aren't really open, like it's kind of like, you know, like menopause and perimenopause, like so many, like my mom's generation, no one's open about that conversation.

• 8:25Michelle Obama?

  My mother said she didn't remember. I was like, you lying.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  Exactly, or it didn't bother you. My mom said, oh, that was nothing.

• 8:33Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, right. It's never nothing to them.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I'm just like, but now I think this generation is all about it, like the more, the more you know about it and the more you can, you know, just tell people about it. Like I try to tell everyone, but I tell all my friends, listen, I started a, a Prenezone, why not? You know, and it helped me sleep better and helped me do that. They're like, really? I hadn't done that. I'm like, girl, you better do it.

• 8:56Michelle Obama?

  I hear you.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  So, and you know, I'm all about just talking and having real raw, open conversations because I think it's so important, like, not to hide what all of us go through.

• 9:07Michelle Obama?

  That's absolutely right.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Doesn't matter what color you are, how tall you are, it doesn't matter, we're all gonna go through it. So I think it's so important to have those conversations. So back to the kids. I think that too is just like, you know, it's important to say like, you know, this didn't work out for me, or this is how I had my kid, you know, or this is what I did and this was my journey. And then it also helps you feel more like, oh, it's okay.

• 9:32Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Like, oh, I, you know, one thing, when I was pregnant, I'm, I checked my underwear every single time I went to the bathroom. I mean, sure, we all did that at some.

• 9:42Michelle Obama?

  Is it still there?

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Exactly. It's like when no one talks about that because it's just a natural, it's almost like a natural reaction.

• 9:48Michelle Obama?

  It's so true, yeah.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, uh, because you just have stress the entire time you're pregnant until you actually give the baby, then you have a whole nother stress, but.

• 9:56Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Um, but it's just like, just, you know, having those conversations.

• 10:02Michelle Obama?

  I am so with you. One of the reasons why I like to be open and honest is because we didn't have that necessarily. And the truth is, is that we don't pay enough attention to women's health. There's so much we don't know about our bodies, so much that doctors don't share with us. Even the issue of conceiving and freezing eggs. If you don't have the right doctor at the right time, you may not get that information. I still know young women who aren't thinking about freezing their eggs because nobody mentioned that to them. So it becomes, do you have the right doctor? Are you in the right location?

• 10:43Speaker 01

  Even if you get married later, you can still use those eggs with your husband. It doesn't, like, it's just so, you just have so many more opportunities and options. And so, I don't know. For me, I was really happy that I did it.

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• 11:44Craig Robinson?

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• 12:00Michelle Obama?

  And I remember that he always mowed the grass in a three-piece suit, a fedora and suspenders. Maybe he took the jacket off, but he was a gentleman, a Pullman porter.

• 12:14Craig Robinson?

  He sure was.

• 12:14Michelle Obama?

  And had that push lawnmower.

• 12:16Craig Robinson?

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• 12:16Michelle Obama?

  So it was never the electric one.

• 12:17Craig Robinson?

  Which is why he told me not to cut the grass right after it rained, because that thing would have never cut anything.

• 12:22Michelle Obama?

  But we learned a lot about homeownership because Uncle Terry was the first homeowner that we lived with.

• 12:29Craig Robinson?

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• 13:07Michelle Obama?

  So then you got pregnant and you were, you were in a Grand Slam tournament when you, when did you, what?

• 13:19Michelle Obama?

  I mean, okay, can you walk us? Can you walk us back to when, when you found out? And because you were pregnant when you won the Australian Open in 2017.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  I had no intention of winning.

• 13:34Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  But just for the record.

• 13:37Michelle Obama?

  You were just, I'm just here.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  This was the record. This was one time I could lose and not be upset about it.

• 13:43Michelle Obama?

  Really?

• 13:45Speaker 01

  No, because I, I remember thinking, so it all started in New Zealand. I was playing a tournament before the Australian Open in New Zealand and I'm not the most positive person on the court, if anyone ever followed my career. Everyone was making fun of Coco. Everyone see that, making fun of Coco?

• 14:03Michelle Obama?

  I know, right? And Serena's like, oh, you just hold on.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  Because I was like, uh.

• 14:08Michelle Obama?

  Really?

• 14:09Speaker 01

  Can you smash that in one go? Like, hello?

• 14:13Michelle Obama?

  Coco, you can do better than that, girl.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  You can do better than that. Then, of course, all the, someone started pulling up all the pictures of rackets I smashed. I was like, wait, when is this a Serena roast? I was just trying to support her.

• 14:24Michelle Obama?

  Just trying to help the girl out. Just get off my back.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  So anyways, I was at this tournament with the famous attitude that I may have had sometimes.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  And I just had a bad, I just lost to this girl that I just, I shouldn't have lost to. And I just remember I was just so mad, it was windy and I was mad at the wind and it was the ball kid. I was mad at the ball kid and I was so angry with everything. I was so mad and I, I'm sure I smashed a racket. I was miserable.

• 14:57Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  And even in the presser after, we all know about pressers after.

• 15:01Michelle Obama?

  Oh my god.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  I said, "I hate this place."

• 15:06Speaker 01

  "I never did this in my life." "I said, 'I hate this place. I'm never coming back. It sucks.'"

• 15:17Speaker 01

  I was miserable. So then, next week I'm in Australia and I'm working out and I'm not, I'm like, "Why am I breathing so hard? Why am I breathing so hard?" Anyway, eventually I, uh, also my booze were massive, massive, massive. And I was like, "Okay, I'm just gonna take a test." And I took a test, ended up, it was positive, but I was like, "Okay, this is crazy." And, um, and so anyways, so I ended up going to the doctor and he's like, "Oh, surprise, you're like, I like, what am I? Like four weeks pregnant? Like, no, you're seven weeks pregnant."

• 15:51Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  And I was like, "What?"

• 15:54Michelle Obama?

  What? Excuse me?

• 15:56Speaker 01

  It was crazy, but then it all made sense as to why. So bad, I mean, I was real, that was the worst of one of, probably one of the worst of the worst.

• 16:05Michelle Obama?

  And you weren't pregnant those other times.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Well, you know, I was thinking about being a mom. I always wanted to be a mom.

• 16:14Speaker 01

  That was probably in the back of my head. So, so yeah, so then I was like, "Oh my gosh." So then I thought to myself, "Wow, self, what are we gonna do?" And so.

• 16:27Michelle Obama?

  Self?

• 16:29Michelle Obama?

  Self, there's a baby in here. And did you already committed to play at the open?

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I was supposed to play doubles. So I pulled out a doubles and Venus didn't tell me anything. But later on, she said, "When you pulled out, I knew you were pregnant." I'm like, "How?"

• 16:43Michelle Obama?

  You didn't tell her?

• 16:44Speaker 01

  No, because I also felt really bad because I was just like, I didn't want to pull out and I didn't want her to be stressed. And then it was, it was crazy. I couldn't, you know, I just didn't want to stress anybody out. So, um, one of my sisters knew and the baby daddy knew, my husband.

• 17:01Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that's good. That's good. That's good.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  And, um, my agent knew, Jill.

• 17:06Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  So we just kept and then, but apparently Venus knew too. So she told, like, early on, it was like on the third round in the locker room. She's like, she told me and I was like, "Oh, okay." And then I felt bad in the final because I was like, I always felt bad. It's always like she probably wanted to make, take it easy on me because she's always protecting me.

• 17:25Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  So I was like, I wish she, I really wish she hadn't have known.

• 17:28Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  Because then maybe, I don't know, maybe it would have been different, maybe it wouldn't have. But still, I just like to be super fair with whoever I'm playing.

• 17:35Michelle Obama?

  Ah.

• 17:36Speaker 01

  So, yeah, so that's kind of how it happened. And then at the end, I was nine weeks pregnant and then,

• 17:41Michelle Obama?

  Whoa.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  It was nuts, so.

• 17:43Michelle Obama?

  So how'd you feel through, I mean, look?

• 17:44Speaker 01

  I was exhausted. I remember playing points and so, so.

• 17:48Michelle Obama?

  Most of us are just in bed. You know, we in bed. We're not like breaking rackets, we're just in bed.

• 17:56Speaker 01

  I had to ease for that. But I remember thinking to myself, I can't play long points. I need to finish, I have to, you know, three shots and I have to be done. So I hit like, I was like, I had to hit lots of winners and lots of aces and, which is an insane.

• 18:10Michelle Obama?

  You were on a mission.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I hadn't planned on winning, but every, every time I kept winning, I was like, "Oh, I can beat her." And then, you know, and I was like, "Oh, I can beat her." And then it was like, "Oh, I gotta beat her. She pissed me off." So she gotta go down.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  There was only one or two of those.

• 18:29Michelle Obama?

  So you just, you just revenged your way to the title.

• 18:38Michelle Obama?

  Oh, girl.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  And then there was another one, "I can't lose to her." Like, I mean, I have some sort of pride.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  So that's how, that's how it happened.

• 18:49Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, wow, wow. So, did it feel extra good? That you were able to...

• 18:56Speaker 01

  Okay, that's what I was saying. So I couldn't have long points. So if I had a really long point, if you go back and watch the footage, I would lose the next point. And of course, it's only, my opponents don't get that, they don't get to understand that rhythm, because that's normally, not normally how I play.

• 19:12Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  Um, but, you know, when you're getting every, but eventually you'll see that after a long point Serena loses the next point. So you have to strategize.

• 19:19Michelle Obama?

  Because you're trying to catch your breath.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Because I'm trying to catch my breath.

• 19:21Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 19:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I also have to keep a, a face on that doesn't let anyone know that I'm, you know, exhausted.

• 19:28Michelle Obama?

  Struggling, yes.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  Like, surely can't breathe. But, um, women can do anything.

• 19:34Michelle Obama?

  Amen. Amen.

• 19:37Speaker 01

  Um, especially with the help of God, you can do everything.

• 19:40Michelle Obama?

  Amen.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  And, um, I knew I was having a girl because Australia gets really hot. They, we do Celsius, they do Celsius, so it's like forty-three is like a hundred and twenty. And one day I had to play in forty-three, and I was like, "No way, there's no way." And that's when I knew I'm having a girl, because I said to myself, "No way can a boy..."

• 20:03Michelle Obama?

  Make it. They just, "Sorry, y'all."

• 20:05Speaker 01

  I genuinely said this.

• 20:06Michelle Obama?

  Don't have it in you.

• 20:08Speaker 01

  I genuinely said, and I told my husband that day, "We're having a girl, there's no way a little boy could handle everything I put in this baby under." And we had a girl.

• 20:18Michelle Obama?

  That's right. Olympia was just like, "Mom, we're cool. We're cool. I got you. I'm hanging on."

• 20:23Speaker 01

  She was hanging in there.

• 20:24Michelle Obama?

  "I wish you'd just win this point."

• 20:26Speaker 01

  But you know what? She has a bad attitude like me. She gets angry if she doesn't win, she gets so mad.

• 20:33Michelle Obama?

  Well, we don't call that a bad attitude. We call that competitive determination.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  Thank you, okay, we call that competitive.

• 20:39Michelle Obama?

  Yes, that's what we, yes, no, that's what we call it. That is not a bad attitude. Because if a man acted that way...

• 20:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, well, they told me for years it's a bad attitude. I love this.

• 20:50Michelle Obama?

  But guess what?

• 20:51Speaker 01

  I'm getting some good insights now.

• 20:52Michelle Obama?

  We're both the youngest, and there's something about that determination, I believe, and I don't, I see it in my youngest, we have two girls and... Um, I, you know, I think when you're keeping up, you know, I, I know I felt like my brother would deliberately learn how to play a game, go off and then go, "Meech, let's play."

• 21:17Michelle Obama?

  And I'm like, dude, you, you know, he was just gonna beat me down.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  What's the age difference?

• 21:22Michelle Obama?

  It's a year and a half, it's almost two years. And so, I'm always losing, you know, and trying to keep up, and after a while, you just get pissed. You know?

• 21:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:32Michelle Obama?

  So I, I think there is a youngest child determinant in that.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, for sure, absolutely, for sure, for sure.

• 21:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, but that doesn't explain Olympia, because she's the oldest.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  I know.

• 21:43Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  I think it was just the situation that she was in.

• 21:46Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, so...

• 21:49Speaker 01

  A little bit from it, that's okay, though.

• 21:51Michelle Obama?

  So your, uh, your labor and delivery, um, experience was also a, a, a journey?

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was...

• 22:02Michelle Obama?

  Can you talk about it?

• 22:02Speaker 01

  That was a journey, I, um, I have these issues with my blood, so I have, uh, my blood can clot pretty easily, um, so I have to be on certain type of medicines, especially if I'm pregnant, I have to always take injections every day.

• 22:15Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  So, um, when I had the baby, I, after, I couldn't breathe, and I kept telling the lady, the nurse, I kept saying, uh, "I can't breathe," and she was like, "Oh, well, you know, you'll be fine," I said, "No, actually, I think I need to get a CAT scan, because I feel, I think I have blood clots in my lungs."

• 22:34Michelle Obama?

  And you're in the hospital?

• 22:36Speaker 01

  I'm in the hospital.

• 22:37Michelle Obama?

  You had the ba-, you had a C-section?

• 22:38Speaker 01

  I've already had the baby, I had a C-section, because she wouldn't come out. I knew I was gonna have to have a C-section, so I just had this premonition. I just, yeah, I just felt, like, I feel a lot.

• 22:50Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:50Speaker 01

  And, I don't know, three months in, I was like, "I'm having a C-section."

• 22:54Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  And so, once they told me I had to have a C-section, I wasn't surprised, and I went with the plan, and also tell women now, I say, "Listen..." Definitely, if you wanna push, go for it. I wish I could've done it. But also, if the doctor tells you they have to cut, do it. Cause I've seen so many kids be so affected, cause women wanna stick to their plan of I must push, I must push. And I've seen kids come out unfortunate. That, um, and even die because they didn't follow the, you know, follow what the doctor said.

• 23:24Michelle Obama?

  Well, that's another thing that women take on, that birth has to look a certain way. And I, for one, was like, I went in five centimeters dilated. I thought about natural birth for literally the conversation I had with my doctor that said, okay, it was like eight, and I said, well, how long is it gonna take? How much, how long am I gonna have to be in this kinda pain? And she said, about four hours. And I was like, huh, no.

• 23:56Michelle Obama?

  Stick that needle right in my back. I think I could've done it if she had said an hour, right? If she had said this baby's coming in an hour, I'm like, okay, I can do it. But four hours?

• 24:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 24:08Michelle Obama?

  I was like, so, I mean, this-

• 24:10Speaker 01

  I applaud the women that can do it.

• 24:11Michelle Obama?

  I, well, it's wonderful.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:14Michelle Obama?

  Yay.

• 24:15Speaker 01

  It's not me.

• 24:15Michelle Obama?

  For you. But I'm all, I'm like, are you-

• 24:19Speaker 01

  I heard about something called the ring of fire?

• 24:21Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yes. I never, I never wanna meet the ring. I don't know. See, I'm always like, would you get your tooth pulled without anesthesia? Is there anybody here? Would a man do that?

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Definitely not, no.

• 24:34Michelle Obama?

  I know. You're gonna be the butt of all the man jokes.

• 24:39Speaker 01

  He's handling it well, though.

• 24:41Michelle Obama?

  Steve over there cracking up. You know y'all are weak.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  So, so anyway, so I was, um, I told the nurse that, and she just was like, this is crazy talk. Which, it may have sounded like crazy talk. For me to tell him what, to give her exactly quote-unquote what I needed and how I needed it. And then I started coughing so hard, so all my stitches just like burst open. Cause I couldn't breathe. And so, like, my, I was holding a pillow on my stomach, and I was just coughing. Cause I was just like, I'm like, they're gonna break, they're gonna break. And I couldn't breathe, so I was just coughing, coughing, coughing, and they broke. And that was, I had to have that redone. I think I had like five surgeries. And that, I don't know, it was, I don't remember some of them. And then um my doctor came in and I was like, I can't breathe, I think I need this, the CAT scan.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  This is like after I'd already told the nurse and then um, cause I remember my husband's parents were there. And I was in the room and they were talking and they were holding the baby. And I calmly walked, cause I'm, again.

• 25:54Michelle Obama?

  You're up walking.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  I calmly walked back and I was like, I don't want anyone to panic. And that's when I told the nurse, I can't breathe, you know, I was just like, you know, help me out here.

• 26:05Speaker 01

  And she didn't take me serious. Um, so then when the doctor came, I was telling her I couldn't breathe and she was like, okay. I, I could look at her and tell that, I don't know if she believed me, but she did everything I asked. And I was really grateful that I had her and that she was with me for the whole pregnancy journey. And it's so good to have a doctor that can, that will listen to you.

• 26:26Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  And you know, you might say things that don't make sense, but still she, she heard me, she listened. And if she hadn't listened, it would, I wouldn't be here.

• 26:35Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  And she made sure that she did what I asked and then she found exactly what I said. So it was, then I had to have another surgery to get like a, something in my veins to stop uh clots from going to my heart. I had so many surgeries.

• 26:51Michelle Obama?

  How long were you in the hospital after you delivered?

• 26:54Speaker 01

  It was, it wasn't that long, it was only like eight days.

• 26:57Michelle Obama?

  And you had that many surgeries in eight days?

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Eight days, it was crazy.

• 27:01Michelle Obama?

  And then you had to go home with a baby.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  And I, and I remember, my only goal was to be able to walk to the mailbox, cause I was like.

• 27:09Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 01

  And one day I walked to the mailbox and I came back and I passed out for the rest of the day. It was, it was very intense.

• 27:16Michelle Obama?

  I remember watching the documentary that journey, uh that followed your comeback.

• 27:23Michelle Obama?

  And it really moved me to see you, because it showed you and you and the family leaving with Olympia in the carrier. And you were determined to carry her, but it was clear that you were struggling.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was really struggling.

• 27:44Michelle Obama?

  That you were physically, you were not the Serena Williams everybody knew. But I also was very proud of you for showing that story. And anyone who hasn't, remind me the name of the doctor.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  Being Serena.

• 27:58Michelle Obama?

  Being Serena. This is like watching her journey and her comeback. You show it all in a way that is so powerful. And if I didn't love you before then, I loved you even more, just watching your determination to get that baby home regardless of your health. But you were struggling.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was really struggling, but I also had some great help, you know? And sometimes, you know, family is so important and not everyone has family. And so I just felt so grateful that I did have that, had my husband and had my family. And then, because I don't remember the, I don't think I remember the first three weeks.

• 28:38Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Because I remember my husband's sister came to visit and she told me like a year later and I was like, I vaguely remember you there. I would have never remembered it if she hadn't reminded me. I was like, oh my gosh. Everything was just so, it was a lot. It was a lot, yeah. But it was good. And I think that, you know, every journey, everyone has their own journey. And I was blessed to have my journey. And the more I talk to women, the more I understand and see that everyone's journey is, not everyone, but a lot of women's journey is so intense.

• 29:12Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  And often worse than mine.

• 29:15Michelle Obama?

  Giving birth is intense, which is why.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  You're putting your life on the line.

• 29:20Michelle Obama?

  It is why maternal health should not be a political football. Because.

• 29:28Michelle Obama?

  What our bodies do, what we are capable of doing is amazing. But the fact that there isn't research done on maternal health, there's a limited amount of information we get about our health. We aren't encouraged to ask questions. We aren't encouraged to talk amongst each other. And I just want us to vow today, you know, regardless of our generation, that we don't pass that down to the next generation.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 29:57Michelle Obama?

  That we owe them the knowledge, the wisdom.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  Because we want to know.

• 30:01Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  I mean, everyone wants to know. And they don't want to know if they don't know.

• 30:07Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  And so it's just like, knowledge is power. And it's like when you go to school, you would never know the things that you learn unless you're taught those. You weren't asked to learn about so many subjects, but you learn about them. And I feel the same way about us and our health and passing on that knowledge. And I think it's just so important.

• 30:33Craig Robinson?

  So, we're back in L.A. for another round of IMO recordings. And it's All-Star Weekend.

• 30:39Michelle Obama?

  I know. How's your trip going?

• 30:43Craig Robinson?

  You know, really well. And Kelly and the kids are here. So, we're going to try and check out some of these All-Star activities.

• 30:51Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 30:52Craig Robinson?

  You know, it's been a busy time at home with the boys' basketball schedules. And we've got a busy week of recordings here in L.A. So, it's always nice having a relaxing place to stay while I'm here.

• 31:04Michelle Obama?

  I know what you mean. I mean, I don't have that issue. But I know from your experiences that when you're on the road, you got to have a place that feels kind of like home.

• 31:15Craig Robinson?

  Exactly. And this time, my Airbnb has a steam shower, a fireplace. But Mish, I know you've got quite a busy schedule of your own. You and Barack are prepping for a really big week of events. The grand opening of the Obama Presidential Center in June, right?

• 31:35Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah. We are so excited about the opening. The art in it is amazing. And we can't wait to share it with the community and with the world.

• 31:45Craig Robinson?

  That's so great. And I'm sure Chicago will be seeing a lot of visitors that week, including myself and my family. With Airbnb, local hosts can offer those travelers a proper welcome. And with visitors arriving from all around the world for a big event like this, it's even more important that people have some comfortable places to stay. So if you've got a place you're not using during a big event in your hometown, consider becoming a host on Airbnb. It's a great way to make some extra money and a fun way to share your city with fellow fans. Your home becomes part of their experience

• 32:28Craig Robinson?

  and you get to help make their weekend feel even more memorable. So, Chicago, can't wait to see you in June.

• 32:36Michelle Obama?

  See you there.

• 32:43Michelle Obama?

  Well, let's turn to your mother. Because so much, you know, everybody talks about your dad and the relationship with your dad. And your mom sits in those stands in a way that I could never. She, I mean, I just couldn't watch my kids play. But she was always there. I had the opportunity to meet her briefly. I think we were in Wimbledon for the Olympics. Yes, yes. And I was there representing the United States, for whatever reason. What sport? It was good. Did you get a medal? I did not. I got no medal. Oh. But you did. I wouldn't give you a medal.

• 33:28Michelle Obama?

  You got a few. But I met your mom. Talk about your mom. Yeah. You know, tell us about that amazing woman and what you've learned from her as a mother.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Well, my mom is a very strong woman. Uh, she's definitely not sharing all this information though.

• 33:47Michelle Obama?

  Yes, really.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  She came from that generation where.

• 33:49Michelle Obama?

  Mine either.

• 33:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:51Michelle Obama?

  Marion is like, don't remember anything.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Yes, she's very tough. My mom's very tough and she's, she's actually the oldest of her siblings. So she's always been a mom.

• 34:01Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  And you know, it's interesting to, to, to be something that you've always been and then to grow up and to become a mother and then she also took care of our grandkids, so, well, her grandkids. So my mom, um, you know, growing, I'll start growing up. Growing up, I wasn't the best tennis player was always Venus, who was so great. And so I was demoted to my mom's court because my dad, Venus. Venus always played with my dad and because he was better than my mom. He actually taught my mom. My mom must have been an incredible athlete to learn how to play.

• 34:38Michelle Obama?

  Really?

• 34:39Speaker 01

  That fast. And so from there, I would always be on her court. And so I always wanted to be on my dad's court because he was more easygoing and he was more fun. People always think the opposite.

• 34:49Michelle Obama?

  He was easygoing, really?

• 34:50Speaker 01

  Yes. And so on my mom's court, there was no games. Like I had to be serious and I had to be, do all this stuff. But then looking back, I was able to see that she was able to instill so much mental toughness that I had, that my sister actually did not end up getting.

• 35:10Michelle Obama?

  Mm.

• 35:10Speaker 01

  Because I had to do so much. I had to work so hard. I had to do so many more things on her court. Like there were no games. It was so serious. Like it was just, it's, I was very, in the end, I was very grateful that I had that time with her to just focus on technique and focus on just not letting anything go. Because it really showed up in my game as a professional athlete and mental, mentally and physically. And so that came from my mom.

• 35:38Michelle Obama?

  Mm.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  And so my mom, then she traveled with us. Actually, the first tournament I ever won, we had to split again. Um, my dad was with Venus and I was with my mom in Paris. And, um, I was, it was my first tournament, I think I was like sixteen. And, uh, I remember we shared a room, I'm, cause I love Paris. So, I remember like, we were at this hotel on the other side of the Somme, the river. And, um, I remember that we shared a room and she, and she had the bed and I slept on the cot, cause I love sleeping on a cot.

• 36:11Michelle Obama?

  Okay, alright, that's who you can use. Serena Williams loves a cot.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  And, um, I remember every night, she, I wanted to watch cartoons every night.

• 36:26Michelle Obama?

  Cause you guys were big cartoon people, you liked Disney.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  I still am, by the way, I love animation, now I'm into Marvel.

• 36:33Michelle Obama?

  I was gonna let you blame that on the kids, but, um, still a big kid.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, so, I was still pretty young, I still had an excuse though. Um, and so she didn't mind, and so like, she made, she watched it with me every night. And so, such a good memory and it's a good moment. And I remember every night after I would win a match, cause I always played this, I, I was in France and I played, oh, my whole draw was French people. And the stadium was probably the size of this room, but it was loud, loud, loud, loud, loud. And so, every time I played, everyone was massively against me, naturally, because I'm playing their country first. Nothing personal. It was crazy, and so every night I'd come home like, wow, I can't believe I got through that. And then every night, eh, so I just kinda shut off my brain, we would watch some, animated something and then,

• 37:22Speaker 01

  um, and then that was that. And so, eventually when I won, I was just remember being so happy. And then I remember we called Venus and she hadn't won, so she played another match and she won her tournament. And so, we both won different tournaments. And, uh, we were so happy. And so, so then you fast forward a little bit more, we started winning grand slams and my mom was there for all the grand slams. And our first Olympics was actually in Sydney. And my mom was there. My mom is also very clumsy.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  And she loves sweets. So one time, we were at Wimbledon, and we see this woman hobbling along the road. And I'm like, Mom, what happened? And it's my mom.

• 38:03Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my God.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  What's going on? I'm like, you need to see a doctor. I'm good. I'm gonna get some cookies.

• 38:09Michelle Obama?

  You just drive past and she's hobbling?

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Yes, we're like, wha- why aren't you at the house? And she's, I need some cookies. I want, like, are you, you are not okay. She had a broken toe.

• 38:22Michelle Obama?

  But she was gonna get her cookies.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  And she used to always hide cookies under the seat when we were driving.

• 38:31Speaker 01

  She used to hide cookies, and my dad would be like, why are all these cookies up here?

• 38:37Speaker 01

  So she definitely has a sweet tooth, which is kind of funny. But it's, it's, I have so many good memories of my mom.

• 38:42Michelle Obama?

  What was it like being coached by your mom?

• 38:46Speaker 01

  So, yes.

• 38:47Michelle Obama?

  How did that affect your? Was that always good? Was, because we got a lot of moms out here, probably did their share of coaching. How did, how did your mom maintain that sort of special mom relationship? Or did she?

• 39:02Speaker 01

  So I think what a lot of people don't realize is that we travel, every time we went to Australia, probably, actually, every time we went to France, my mom was always there. My dad actually never went to those tournaments. And so she was always our coach for all that time. And so I, I don't know how many Australian Opens I've won.

• 39:21Michelle Obama?

  A lot.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  So she basically coached me through all of them. And I remember one time when I was eighty-nine in the world, and everyone had written me off. I was like twenty-something. And they said I would never win again, blah, blah, blah. And she told me before, in the final, before I played, I think I was playing Maria in that final, Maria Sharapova, she was like, she said, you've got this, you're gonna do this. She told me exactly how to play. And I won in less than an hour. And it was really genius. So she actually was a very great coach. And she'll say little things. My mom is not someone that... That's gonna fill a room. She's gonna say one word. Yeah. But it's gonna be the most powerful word in the room and that's it. And so she'll say one thing like, you need to attack the forehand.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  If it's low, or there's something, but you have to listen. Yeah. And if you listen, you can catch on to it and you can be like, okay. And that's the kind of person she is, even in life. You know, she always says like, one, but raising my kids, she'll be like, you need to be with those girls. Yeah. And so, no matter what's happening in the world or what we're all going through, I always remember, I gotta be with those girls. You know, cuz she was always there with us. And now that looking back, like she never spent a day away from us. Uh, all the girls. Yeah. And so, and then she's also the kind of person, like my sister unfortunately passed early on. And she's the kind of person that, I remember when she found out, like we all were just traumatized, she just dropped everything.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  And she moved to LA actually, and then she took care of the grandkids and she raised them. And she never moved back. Um, so that's the kind of person that she is. She's very, she's used to responsibility. Yeah. And she has a lot on her shoulders, but she's so proud to carry it. And then now she's instilled that into all of our daughters, to just carry that power, to carry that strength. And to pass it on to our kids, and to my kids, and, and all the other grandkids. So it's really, she's an amazing person. Yeah, that's, that's the quick version. Yeah. It's so much that I can say about my mom, but. I'd love to hear about your mom. The last thing I'll say.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  Is, yeah, we do talk about our dad a lot, and my, we wouldn't be here without our dad. Yeah. Obviously, obviously wouldn't be here without my mom. But I've always described my mom as, if my, I always described. Uh, us like this. My dad is the body, cuz it was his vision, it was his goal, and it was his dream. But my mom is the spine. You cannot function without that spine, the nerves that come from it, the nervous system. You can have a dream, you can have everything all set, but it's not gonna work unless you have that part of you. And so, that's kinda how I described my mom.

• 42:12Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:13Michelle Obama?

  So, what kinda mom are you? Are you a spine-like mom? I always ask this question a lot about parenting philosophy. Because I think one of the things I admired most about my mom, you know, my mom didn't go to college, my parents were working-class folks, she was the middle of seven, but my mom was so emotionally intelligent and she had such great common sense, just like, just like your mind. Wouldn't have to say much, but everybody wanted to hear from her.

• 42:52Michelle Obama?

  And one of the things that I learned from her was that, you know, you just don't have kids, you have to understand that you're raising people. And so, her approach to raising us was to talk to us like who she wanted us to be later on, you know? She didn't treat us like babies, she loved us dearly, but she believed that all kids are born with a level of intelligence and ability, and she treated us that way. So, she taught me, like, as I grew up, I was like, my mom had this really deep philosophy about parenting, you know?

• 43:34Michelle Obama?

  Stuff you learn in sociology and psychology classes just came naturally to her. So, I kinda think about parenting as this huge responsibility to think about, where am I trying to get my girls? Not how I feel in the moment. So, I always wonder what folks' parenting philosophies are. And, and do you think you have one? And how would you describe your, your mothering approach?

• 44:04Speaker 01

  So, Venus is a planner. She writes everything down. Even when she got married, it was just, boom, everything was just over, it was a lot.

• 44:16Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 44:16Speaker 01

  To be honest.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  Don't worry, this is coming full circle.

• 44:24Speaker 01

  Um, so she was always a person that read books, like that would get through everything, like would know exactly what she wants to do. So I, I, I think I'm different. I don't have like a, like that plan. Yeah. I never had like a philosophy. I just, as organized as I am in my life. Yeah. Like to a point where everything is labeled. My parenting skills is different. I kind of feel like, obviously I have spiritual goals for the kids. I have, you know, ideas for education goals. I have those types of things. But I never really thought much about, um, over, I don't, my philosophy is just to be the best that I can to show up.

• 45:09Speaker 01

  Hmm. Um, and to also be, I felt like I love my parents and how they raised us. Mm-hmm. Um, and just kind of pick and choose out of the, some of the things that they, that they raised us with. And in particular with my mom, how she raised us. So for me, I really try to be a present parent. Mm-hmm. Um, and sometimes that's hard, especially with the lives that we live is very hard to be present. But I try to be extremely present. How do you manage that? I mean. Everything is around my kids. Like if it's like, if I have to do something, it, I never more, I'm gone more than 24 hours ever. Um, normally, I didn't leave Olympia until she was six for 24 hours. Mm-hmm.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  So that was, that may have been a little extreme, but I, that's who I am. Mm-hmm. And so for me, I show up every, as much as I can, every single day for the, for the girls. Yeah. Cause I feel like, um, they mean the most to me and I feel like they need me and, and they, uh, they need to make sure, I, I, I want to raise my children. Yeah. I'm a, I'm a person that's raising my kids. Yeah. And that's teaching them how I want them to live and how I want them to be. That's beautiful.

• 46:27Michelle Obama?

  So like me, you have two girls.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:30Michelle Obama?

  And...

• 46:30Speaker 01

  I wanted to copy you.

• 46:31Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 46:32Speaker 01

  You were so inspiring to me.

• 46:33Michelle Obama?

  And three years apart. Way to go. How is that? I always thought I was gonna have three boys. I don't know why, you know? I don't know why. I always thought I was a bit of a tomboy when I was younger.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  I could see you with sons.

• 46:50Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I followed around my brother. I love boys. I thought they were funnier than girls. I've learned, you guys, you have some qualities.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  As she looks at Steve.

• 47:03Michelle Obama?

  Right.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  Again.

• 47:08Michelle Obama?

  So I always thought I was gonna be the sports mom, the, you know? And then I have these two girls and I am so grateful for my little women. And they are just amazing grown women now, 28 and 24, out in the world. And I can tell you, I have loved every second of mothering, every second. But it's just interesting, the same gender, two girls. And I talk to my friends who have boys and they're like, boys are definitely different. You know? Like, Malia and Sasha could sit and color for hours. We could get on a plane. And I talk, mothers of boys, you all laugh at that, right?

• 47:54Michelle Obama?

  I mean, they sit and read and color and you can talk to them and there's no throwing anything. I don't think we had a lot of balls around the house. Then I go to my brother's house who have nephews and they would come to visit at the White House and they'd just walk in sweaty, you know? I mean, I was like, why are they wet, you know? You just got here. And they come in damp and just throw cars and balls all on the first floor of the White House. And I'm like, ooh, this is different. But anyway, I digress.

• 48:30Michelle Obama?

  Your precious little ladies, how are they? How does it feel being a mom to daughters?

• 48:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've, as you know, I've always wanted to be a mom. I've only wanted girls. I could have 10 girls, I would be happy. Um, I grew up with four sisters.

• 48:50Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  So I was the fifth sister.

• 48:52Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  I've never been around boys.

• 48:54Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  So when I got pregnant, I actually had a quick panic attack.

• 48:59Michelle Obama?

  Like, yikes.

• 49:00Speaker 01

  I was so certain it was a girl.

• 49:02Michelle Obama?

  Uh-huh.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  But when they took the blood to do the blood test, I was like, oh, my god, I don't know what to do if I have a boy. I've never been around boys. And I really like, I was going crazy. I was like, I can't have a boy.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  And so I remember I went nuts, so I have no, I was like, I don't know what to do. Um, yeah, so that, that's all I know is girls. And I just always wanted girl, I've always been the, growing up, I always wore dresses.

• 49:27Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  I was that girl with the princess.

• 49:30Michelle Obama?

  Yes, your twirl.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  The twirl, you know, tutus, like, that was all me. And so, oh, I love dressing them up. They're actually, right now, I think Olympia's wearing a Mulan dress as we speak.

• 49:41Michelle Obama?

  Of course.

• 49:42Speaker 01

  Cause they're at Disney World.

• 49:43Michelle Obama?

  So she must be in Mulan.

• 49:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:46Michelle Obama?

  My idol.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  The little one is wearing Anna dress.

• 49:49Michelle Obama?

  Oh, okay.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  So I'm like, oh, can you go buy them their dresses, please?

• 49:55Speaker 01

  So I'm like, all that, I'm just, yeah. So my older daughter is very much like me, like, very much like girly, girly girl.

• 50:03Michelle Obama?

  Mm.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  And my younger daughter is somewhat like, somewhat like me. I always describe her as like a, she'll wear a princess dress with tennis shoes.

• 50:14Michelle Obama?

  Okay, yeah.

• 50:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:15Michelle Obama?

  I like that in her.

• 50:16Speaker 01

  She plays with cars.

• 50:17Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, okay.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  And she's like, my, my, one of my sisters played with cars a lot, so she reminds me a little bit of her.

• 50:22Michelle Obama?

  Uh-huh.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  She loves Hot Wheels. But she'll wear, she'll wear Hot Wheels while wearing like a Rapunzel dress.

• 50:28Michelle Obama?

  It's like, where's my tiara? Give me the Corvette.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  I love it.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  And Olympia and I have never, we, cause Olympia's five years older than Adira.

• 50:38Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  So we never played with cars and stuff.

• 50:44Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 50:44Speaker 01

  So we're all like, oh, this is actually really fun. So Olympia and I are always playing with the dearest toys, like, oh, let, let it go.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  So it's nice that we have a little bit of a mix like that. It's really fun.

• 50:59Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 51:07Craig Robinson?

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• 54:55Speaker 03

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• 55:03Michelle Obama?

  How do you balance your parenting philosophy with your husband? How are you? What have you learned from him about parenting?

• 55:13Speaker 01

  So, one thing I like, he loves, he's a, and this is a positive word now.

• 55:18Michelle Obama?

  Okay, yes.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  He's a nerd.

• 55:21Michelle Obama?

  Yes, it is, very much.

• 55:23Speaker 01

  Very positive.

• 55:23Michelle Obama?

  Especially a nerd with a job.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  Yes, we love nerds.

• 55:28Michelle Obama?

  We love nerds. Nerds pay the bills.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  So, he's all about explaining.

• 55:36Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh, okay.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  So, he'll like.

• 55:40Michelle Obama?

  Lot of explaining.

• 55:43Speaker 01

  So he'll like, so Olympia does something, he'll like tell Olympia like, okay, so, you know, why do you think you're learning about this? And then he goes into this whole reason as to why. And I'm like, hmm, that's good. So I like how he, I like how there's like a balance.

• 55:59Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 55:59Speaker 01

  Like he like, kinda gives her the reasons and she understands like, you know, she'll ask a question about something, he'll go in a deep version about it. But it's nice, cause then she gets, she gets that knowledge and she really, you know, really gets it. And then for me, my philosophy is like, what do you like to do? How are we gonna do this together? You know, it's super important not to ever diminish what he's doing as our, as the man of the house. You wanna make sure that you're always uplifting him, that's my philosophy. So, I always am gonna make sure that we're on the same page.

• 56:35Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 56:36Speaker 01

  And also with things that I want, like I want the kids to, you know, do this, to whatever sport, or to go to this school, or you know, just coming together for those decisions.

• 56:45Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  Um, so yeah, so I feel like we work very well in that, that part.

• 56:50Michelle Obama?

  That's great. It's great. I always say, um, you know, you can have one kid and, you know, swear you're a good parent. It's like, I got this. Look at me, I know all the things. And then you have the other one. And, you know, they just, kids, babies, they come into this world as their own individual selves, truly. Um, and that, it's a beautiful thing. I mean, like, like snowflakes, really. But it can be a challenge if you think that, you know, one size fits all in parenting.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, as a parent, when I make a mistake, I make sure I say sorry.

• 57:36Michelle Obama?

  Absolutely.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  Because it is important for, first of all, to have that humility and to teach my daughters humility. And second of all, I never want them to think that I can't, a mom can't apologize to someone younger. So I've been wrong a few times with Olympia and I am the first to tell her, you were right. I didn't do that right. You were, I, you were, I'm sorry. And so it's just, I think it's a good practice for me and hopefully maybe someone else. But I, I feel like it's a very good thing to do.

• 58:08Michelle Obama?

  I totally agree and I've apologized a lot. Raising kids in the public eye, you know, I mean, we both have, have done it. It is, it, it just makes the process 10 times more unnerving. Because, you know, you worry that your kids can't make mistakes because everybody, it's gonna be on page six. You know, I mean, we would have those kind of conversations about, you know, you know, you have to, our girls had to learn to think like comms people, like comms directors. And at a very young age and it served them well today. I mean, they are very poised, very mature.

• 58:53Michelle Obama?

  But it's a lot of pressure that they didn't ask for. How are you approaching the public nature of who you are, how you live? How are you thinking about that at this stage in the girls' life?

• 59:12Speaker 01

  So that's one thing that I try to do and I would never, as public as you. I can't imagine the scrutiny that you guys had to go through, especially the children, every single day. So for me, I try to, I just try to make sure that my children are very normal. I pretty much live under a rock. I live in a very small town in Florida where I can go anywhere and it's normal because Michael Jordan also lives there.

• 59:42Michelle Obama?

  Sort of like, so everybody's like, we all wanna go to this magical place.

• 59:48Michelle Obama?

  Where you can run into Serena and Michael at the 7-Eleven.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  And Tiger and like everyone lives in this small city.

• 59:56Michelle Obama?

  We're not gonna divulge where that is because everybody's gonna be there.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  And so, everyone is normal, but it was really important for me not to.

• 1:00:05Michelle Obama?

  Normal-ish.

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  Just a lot of athletes live in this town.

• 1:00:09Michelle Obama?

  Really?

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  I don't know why.

• 1:00:10Michelle Obama?

  It's like, wow.

• 1:00:13Speaker 01

  But it's great because it's been normalized as we've been all living in there for so many years. But it works. And so for me, I try so hard to make sure Olympia is just like everyone else. Like, she's not seen as anyone special. I don't tell that she's special. I never told her I played tennis. You know, when she started reading, she saw me and she asked questions.

• 1:00:37Michelle Obama?

  It's like, what is, what are you doing, mom? Come sit back in the audience with everybody else. Put that racket down, you silly goose.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  I remember one time in kindergarten, she's like, "Mom, why are you in my book?"

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  So eventually she learned. But I don't live that life where, you know, you think that I, um, you know, and this is funny, but it's also very true. We also have friends that are very famous. So when we hang out with them, they seem extremely normal.

• 1:01:11Michelle Obama?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  So we go to Michael's house or Tiger's house. It's like, okay, you're good.

• 1:01:16Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  So it is very average for us. And so that's what I want them to do. I don't want them to ever feel like, because I don't want them to feel they're better than anyone else, or they have an advantage, because that just, we don't need that anymore in the system that we live in.

• 1:01:32Michelle Obama?

  Yep.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  We just need some kids that are just as normal as you can be. So that's what I do. And if they want to grow up and they want to be a great athlete, or they want to be a great programmer, then they have every right to do that. And yeah, they're gonna have an advantage because of the life that I've lived, you know, and the life my husband lived. Sure, they're still gonna have an advantage, but they're still gonna have to work hard to do there and to make any goal that they want to make. And so for me, it's super important that they understand that and that, uh... They don't feel like they're better than anyone else.

• 1:02:02Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear that you served as the classroom mom?

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was room mom, because I love my daughter and I'm obsessed.

• 1:02:11Michelle Obama?

  What, when, was this recently?

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, since she was in second grade.

• 1:02:14Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:15Michelle Obama?

  Tell us about that. Serena on the text, everyone, you bring cookies?

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  That was me.

• 1:02:21Michelle Obama?

  That was you?

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  That was me.

• 1:02:23Michelle Obama?

  Oh, man.

• 1:02:23Speaker 01

  It was so fun, because I got to go to the school every day, or if I wanted, I could be in the classroom.

• 1:02:29Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  One time I was there for the spelling bee, and I was like, you know, just, you know, pretending to work on the library. But I was watching all the kids spell, and then poor Olympia got her word wrong, and I was like,

• 1:02:41Michelle Obama?

  Aww.

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  Poor kid, she did her best, though, but she tried, but I didn't say anything, I pretended I didn't hear, because I didn't want her to feel the pressure that I was there. And it was so fun, I got to help organize all the, I love organizing. So I got to organize all the food for the teacher appreciation day, and the field, the field trips, and everything for that year.

• 1:03:02Michelle Obama?

  Okay, so your, your daughter doesn't know who you are, but those teachers and parents know who you are.

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  But you know what, they're really cool about it, like, no, they're really, really, they're only, they're really cool. I feel like they don't, you know, they don't treat anyone any different throughout the whole school. And, you know, and the school's also very tough, so you have to really be on it and go show up every day. And so it's, it's really nice.

• 1:03:27Michelle Obama?

  Well, we are running out of time, and I know it, it's been short, but I want to give us time to wrap it up. And I would love for you to share with this room of mo, of moms, especially moms of athletes who have made a level of sacrifice. What advice do you have? What part? ...words of wisdom, do you think you can share? I know that's heavy.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know about advice. I feel like you guys have done it. You've already, you've made it. I mean, to be in this room is a super win already. I would say I have more appreciation. I'm sure you hear it from your kids. But if it weren't for you, you would, we wouldn't be here. We wouldn't be on these teams. And you know what? I just, as, as someone that had my mom supporting me, you know, it is, I feel so grateful to my mom every single day to give me this opportunity to believe in me, even when things were rough and things were down, to show up every day for me. You know, to be there when I didn't want to be there,

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  to tell me to go an extra day when I didn't want to go. You know, so I think, I think all your sons can agree that they're super grateful for what you guys have done for them because without you, they wouldn't be there. So I think you guys deserve a huge pat on the back, a huge round of applause. And so, so happy for the opportunity that you've given your children.

• 1:05:12Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. And what's next for Serena in life that you want to share? Not trying to break news. Just, girl, I'm just like, how you doing? And what's going on? You got so much on your plate. What are you most excited about next?

• 1:05:33Speaker 01

  I'm most excited about, well, getting back to my girls.

• 1:05:37Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  And I don't know. I feel like there's, I have a lot of opportunities and just deciding which ones I want to go with and see how, and which direction I'm going to.

• 1:05:49Michelle Obama?

  Okay, that was a good way to not, that was a good way to absolutely say nothing.

• 1:06:03Speaker 01

  I'm healthy, so I'm just happy to be here.

• 1:06:05Michelle Obama?

  You sure are, girl. You look great.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:06:07Michelle Obama?

  You look great.

• 1:06:08Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:06:08Michelle Obama?

  Serena, thank you. Thank you for taking the time to be with us.

• 1:06:12Speaker 01

  This was so fun. Thank you.

• 1:06:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, thank you for your honesty, your openness. Keep doing that. The world needs this information. They need to see their idols being normal, human beings in the world, being grounded and protective of the people that they love. I am always proud of you. I'm happy to share this stage with you and hopefully we'll do something again soon.

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  Yes, believe me, the pleasure was mine. I had so much fun. Thank you all for having me. Can we take a selfie before we go?

• 1:06:49Michelle Obama?

  We can. I just want to say thank you to all the moms on behalf of this mom here. Thank you for your sacrifice, for your love, for, you know, setting the foundation for the next generation. It is the most important work that a person can do in life, I think, is to raise a decent human being. Because I think that if everybody took that job as seriously as everybody in this room, you know, we'd solve a lot of problems that way, just by taking care of the people we choose to bring into this world. So we are grateful to you all.

• 1:07:59Speaker 04

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