272. How I overcame my fear of flying

Today's episode is a rather personal, less psychological one. I want to talk about my fear of flying but also how I have managed to bring that fear back into my control and the huge list of tips I've put together along the way. In this episode we discuss: Where the fear of flying emerges from How a fear of the unknown or a lack of control contributes The psychology of claustraphobia How the pandemic made things worse for people How I stopped avoiding flying + my biggest lessons My biggest tips for long haul flights If you struggle getting on planes and feel like it's holding you back from adventure or travel, this episode is for you! PREORDER MY BOOK: https://www.psychologyofyour20s.com/general-clean https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/755841/person-in-progress-by-jemma-sbeg/ Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg https://www.instagram.com/jemmasbeg/?hl=en# Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast https://www.instagram.com/thatpsychologypodcast/?hl=en# For business: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jemma Sbeg?

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• 0:44Jemma Sbeg?

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• 1:23Jemma Sbeg?

  and meant that I make smarter decisions day to day about what I need, rather than just putting my foot on the gas and just going, going, going, going. New members can try Whoop with a thirty day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join dot whoop dot com slash psychology for your free month of Whoop. Hey, question. Are you an extra care member at CVS? Because there is literally no reason not to be. It's super easy to join and members instantly get extra big deals on things you buy most. I mean, this is stuff you're already buying, things like snacks, personal care products, all of it. And after you join, the savings just show up. Deals refresh every two weeks, but they don't last long.

• 2:06Jemma Sbeg?

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• 2:15Jemma Sbeg?

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• 3:00Jemma Sbeg?

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• 3:35Speaker 01

  Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world. It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we of course break down and discuss the psychology of our twenties. Okay, so this is not our usual episode. I think typically with the topics I choose to discuss, I want to make sure that most people can relate to them, right? I feel like there are some very universal experiences, not just of our twenties, but of being human, that I would say around like 80 to 90% of us can say, yeah, I totally get that.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  I've been there, I've experienced that, I can see myself reflected in that topic. This one is for a unique subset of my listeners who can relate to.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  A fear of flying, a fear of flying. That is what we are going to talk about today. I have spoken about this on and off in certain episodes about how I was so terrified of flying that I didn't fly for like a very long time. And I would even do like, you know, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen hour road trips in order to avoid a two hour plane ride. But um a listener actually DMed me the other day and she was asking me for this specific episode where I talked about it and I couldn't remember. So I thought, you know, I've spoken about it maybe for a couple of minutes here and there, but this deserves a full spot on

• 5:10Speaker 01

  the feed for people to come back to and to listen to if this is something that they fear and that they experience. So, yes, we are going to talk about a fear of flying, how it manifests, what it looks like, and of course, how to overcome it. I remember when I was really struggling with this, maybe two years ago was when I really started to be committed to overcoming this fear. I was going through and like searching for answers everywhere. And I remember looking it up on TikTok, like what are the best tips for a fear of flying? And there were some great tips, but a lot of what I received was like informative videos about like plane safety and like interviews with pilots. And I really

• 5:54Speaker 01

  needed something else. And I think I also realized that it was kind of a turning point for me where I was having all of these huge, huge opportunities to be able to go overseas, to go to the US, go to Europe, fly everywhere and, you know, go to these events and travel. And I wasn't going to get that opportunity again. And if I let myself be held back by my fear of flying, I would really, really regret it. Now, I also have to say, when you live in Australia, like those big, long international flights are definitely something you really have to.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  You know, it it just adds a little bit more intensity to the fear. Like if I want to overcome my fear of flying and therefore give myself the opportunity to go to Europe or to experience like a beautiful Italian summer or to go to the US for work. That's like a twenty four, thirty hour commitment. And it was one of those flights that really like pushed me to finally get over this fear and find strategies that worked for me. Back in twenty twenty three, I had this like really cool opportunity to fly in London, to speak at like the podcast show. And I was not going to give it up.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  So I wanna talk about how I really got through it because now I'm not gonna try and toot my own horn here, but I'm a bit of an expert. Like, I definitely still have my moments of fear and anxiety. But I really went about this in like a systematic way of like, this is not going to control my life. And I will say, I know it sounds like a very small privileged fear, and in many ways it kind of is. But it can also hold you back from a lot of experiences that we want in our twenties, right? There is a lot of glamour and romanticism to solo travelling and to just travelling in general. And having backpacking experiences and summers abroad.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  That if you really deeply fear flying, you can feel a lot of FOMO around and feel like you are going to really miss out on. And therefore you're going to miss out on really getting everything that you can out of this decade. So hopefully by the end of this episode, you feel capable to have those experiences. Even if getting on a plane and flying to whatever destination it is, is part of it. Like you feel capable of saying, yeah, I'm scared of this thing, but I'm gonna do it anyway because this is what I want to do with my time and what I wanna do in these younger years of my life. So yeah, we're gonna talk about why we have a fear of flying, the different types of fears that create the broader fear.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  And also why avoidance and ignoring the problem is only gonna make it worse. And the baby steps and the mental steps and the psychological steps that you can take and you can perform to be okay with getting on those long flights or even just getting on an hour long flight. I really do believe that this is a fear that is. Easier to overcome than you would think. So without further ado, let's get into it.

• 9:09Jemma Sbeg?

  There's this moment in your twenties where you realise, oh, no one is double checking my finances for me anymore. It's just me, my bank account and a growing list of, wait, I forgot I subscribed to that. And honestly, that can feel overwhelming. So you could look into Bank of America Advantage Safe Balance Banking. It's perfect for this stage of life where you're figuring things out as you go. There are no overdraft item fees and if you are under twenty five, there's no monthly maintenance fee, which just makes it easier to stay on track. What stands out is that it doesn't try to over complicate things. It's not about being perfect with money. It's about having a system that helps you feel a little more in control.

• 9:52Jemma Sbeg?

  What's more with safe balance banking, you could enroll in B of A rewards and enjoy cash back deals plus fraud and identity monitoring. If you are in that phase of I'm trying to get my life together financially, Bank of America Advantage Safe Balance Banking is a really solid place to start. Learn more at B of A dot com slash simple banking. Member FDIC. I've been really trying to prioritise my health in a realistic way this year and something that has kept me really motivated is my Whoop. I am such a data person, which is why I love Whoop, because I can genuinely see why my body feels differently depending on the day, why I'm running differently, why I'm maybe less focused.

• 10:35Jemma Sbeg?

  Whoop effortlessly tracks my sleep, it tracks my strain, my recovery, my stress, and most importantly, my overall health. And it just gives me all that data and all those patterns so I can make better decisions, which includes knowing when to go easy and knowing when to go hard. New members can try Whoop with a 30 day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join dot whoop dot com slash psychology for your free month of Whoop. Who out here shops at CBS? Most of you, right? Well, if you're not signed up for extra care, you need to fix that because when you are, you get extra big deals. These are limited time offers you can find in store or in the app. And it's where being an extra care member pays off. So sign up now.

• 11:19Jemma Sbeg?

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• 12:03Jemma Sbeg?

  This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is, lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 12:41Jemma Sbeg?

  These days, there are more people than ever telling you how to manage your health. And we've all gone down an internet rabbit hole exploring the latest health trends. Your social media feed is packed with wellness advice, telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel and YouTube, talks to health influencers, real people, and most importantly, doctors,

• 13:25Jemma Sbeg?

  to separate fact from fiction. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Listen to Health vs. Hype on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  If you have a fear of flying, let me just tell you, you are not the only one. Even if people don't really talk about it, there have been some recent estimates that about forty percent of us have some fear of flying. And that has only increased since the pandemic. Obviously, because a lot of us weren't flying. A lot of us weren't having the exposure to an airplane or to air travel that would help beat a fear. Instead, it was sustaining an anxiety through avoidance that, you know, bad things would happen when we get on a plane and we weren't having any of the experiences to prove that that would be

• 14:24Speaker 01

  the opposite of the case, like that wasn't going to happen. I want to talk about where a fear of flying comes from. Firstly, by talking about my own experience. So for me, I felt like this just crept up on me. When I was eighteen, nineteen, I solo traveled around Europe. Like, I met up with some friends, but my, to get to Europe from Australia, I did that all by myself. And I, you know, was not flying business class. I wasn't flying premium economy. I was flying, like, on China Airlines, China Southern Airlines, like, not a great airline in, like, the back of economy. And I remember my flights being like, Eight hundred dollars return and the food was awful.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  On one of my flights, like, we didn't even have a TV screen and it was like fifteen hours, like, the whole experience was like not a pleasant experience and I was totally fine. Oh, and by the way, like, that ended up being like, I think, a thirty hour flight because we had to do two flights with a huge layover. And I was completely alone that whole time. And like, it wasn't the smoothest sailing and I don't remember having any real fear. And the same on the way back as well, like, I actually, I don't know if I've told this story before, but on my way back from Europe when I was eighteen, um, and like I did my first big solo trip, on my way back, I got stuck in Taiwan for the night. And I'd run out of money, like, I didn't have any money on my travel account.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  I didn't have a SIM card for Taiwan, like, I was completely and utterly kind of stuck. I wasn't sure if I was gonna make the flight and the whole experience was actually really stressful and I still like, got on the plane and didn't feel any fear. In fact, I felt quite peaceful. And so I can reflect on those experiences and be like, oh, there was a time when like I really wasn't scared by this. And then COVID happened, the pandemic happened. I was meant to, I think, like a lot of us, I had these big travel plans. Uh, cause I was about to graduate university, like, I was, I had just graduated and I was like, great. Twenty twenty is like my year for, um, travelling and like, I'm gonna save up and I'm gonna go

• 16:39Speaker 01

  to Russia, like, this was before the Ukraine Russia war, like, look how much has changed, like, I was like, I'm gonna go to Russia and then I'm gonna go to the US and maybe like a bit of Asia and just have a great time and I had no fear around getting on flight, like, it was not in my mind. And then I didn't fly for two years. No one really flew in Australia. Like if you're from Australia, you know, the lockdowns here were like very, very intense. And then I had the opportunity to fly home to see my parents in Melbourne. And oh my goodness, I remember going to book that flight and being like, oh my god, suddenly

• 17:19Speaker 01

  all of these fears are coming up for me. Like I suddenly am picturing myself walking onto that plane. And the only sensation I can feel is like a deep pit rock heaviness in my stomach. And I didn't book the flight. I drove down and then when I had, when the time came to go back up, I drove back up again. Like, and it was like a twelve, thirteen hour drive. Like, it was ridiculous. And it was totally inefficient, totally like unsustainable, totally expensive as well. And that was my first like real moment of like, oh wow, this like fear has suddenly

• 18:01Speaker 01

  emerged for me. And it kept coming up, all these opportunities to go and see family, finally being able to see family, like I would not catch a flight. And then the one time that I did, that I really had to, I um didn't get on it. Like I literally was about to board and I was like, I, I'm gonna fully freak out and I'm going to, like I remember having this fear of like, I am going to panic when I'm on this plane and I'm going to try and get out of the plane. I'm gonna pull the emergency exits and I'm gonna scream and I'm gonna like fully freak out and I'm not gonna be able to control myself. So I shouldn't get on this flight. Like I was just so terrified of having a reaction that I wasn't prepared for.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  And I was so terrified of my fear. So that is kind of where I was at when I realised I needed to change something. So for me, I think it was that I hadn't, I think underlying this, there had always been a more general, like claustrophobia and a more general fear of the unknown, but because I had flown so much as a kid, because my parents were always travelling for work, because then I'd done, you know, a long, a long haul flight when I was kind of not even in my twenties yet. Like I had been exposed enough that the anxiety didn't have time to feed itself with fantasy. Um. So that's really where mine came from. I think for a lot of others, it could be

• 19:25Speaker 01

  your fear of flying comes from a negative experience. So you've just had one really terrible, awful flight that has completely shaped and dominated how you think about flying. I was talking to someone about this, one of my friends, she has a really, she has a terrible fear of flying. And I hope she doesn't mind me sharing this story, but I'll keep it anonymous. She was flying back from the Philippines and they flew through like a thunderstorm, like a lightning storm, like they they flew through a storm and it was not anticipated and it was terrifying and the plane was shaking. And she thought she was gonna die and it just sounded absolutely awful. And it was like from then on out, like

• 20:07Speaker 01

  the fear had emerged, like that was a triggering event. That was a catalyst for her fear. Another really big one is a lot of people experience or a lot of people report an uptick in their fear around flying after a crash. So if you remember like M H three seven, three hundred and seventy, or a bunch of these other like flights that have come down in recent memory that were everywhere in the news. Everyone was talking about it. It was a crazy tragedy. That leaves an imprint because of something called the salience effect or a salience bias where really intense, captivating, highly emotional

• 20:49Speaker 01

  news stories or things going on feel like they're actually a lot more common just because they are dominating so much of the headlines and they're dominating so much of our thinking space, like our brain is like, ah, because this is more apparent, it must be more common, even though it's only been one plane amongst hundreds and hundreds of thousands. This was a big thing that we saw following nine eleven. That was actually a real moment for people of A real moment where a lot of people shifted from being totally happy to get on a plane to a real avoidance within a lot of people. And some people still, I was reading an article, like there's people who reported having no fear

• 21:32Speaker 01

  about flying until nine eleven and even, what are we now, like twenty four years on, like they still won't get on a plane because of how our memories work and how our brain influences our decision making and our behaviour to protect us from what it fears and to help us survive. When really, you know, something like a plane crash or something really terrible happening on a flight um doesn't actually happen all that often. This kind of links to a broader, deeper idea of why do we fear flying? You know, a lot of people will say, I fear crashing, or I fear turbulence, or I fear the confined space.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  So at its root, a lot of these come down to a deeper, more simplistically labelled fear. The big one being the fear of the unknown and the fear of being out of control. So obviously, when you get on a plane, you ha- you're not in control anymore. If something bad was to happen, there is nothing that you can do, really. I know that probably gave you a jolt of anxiety, but we're gonna discuss why, how to overcome that, but really, that's what the fear is coming down to. If you're someone who is already scared of uncertainty, who is already scared of not being able to control their environment, or is scared of the unknown, flying can be a real triggering event.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  This also really relates to a fear of crashing, right? Or a fear of turbulence, or a fear of something bad happening on the flight. You kind of realise that in that situation and in that moment, you might be quite powerless. And that powerlessness, like that feeling is one that you are not comfortable with potentially being exposed to. There's also the deeper fear, or a deeper kind of phobia, claustrophobia. This was also one that was big for me. My big thing was, I don't like being in enclosed spaces. I don't like getting in elevators. I don't like, at the time when my fear of flying was really happening.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  I didn't like even catching the train like into work in Sydney. I didn't even like uh going in tunnels. So it was all coming down to this claustrophobia. I remember specifically like I would avoid driving in any tunnels around this time. And when I would go into a tunnel, I would really feel like the panic rising. And I was particularly scared of there being traffic in a tunnel because I was like, oh my god, I don't wanna get stuck underground in this enclosed space. Like, that just sounds like my worst nightmare. Like, everything is closing in on me. And so I remember talking to my friend and being like, who who travels so much for work and being like, how can you cope

• 24:24Speaker 01

  with being locked in this metal tube for hours? Like, you get in, they close the door, you're not coming out. N- nothing you can do can allow you to exit. And he actually said something really beautiful to me. He was like, yeah, but isn't that really nice? Because while you're suspended up in up in the air, like, you get this beautiful break from reality. Like, it's actually quite special. You get to completely disconnect, you get to just like float in this like space and time that is just like all for you. And I was like, hmm, yes, like, I'm slightly convinced by that. I'm not fully on board. But I do really see like where he was coming from. And he also said to me, he was like,

• 25:09Speaker 01

  there are so many situations like that that you're going to be exposed to in life, where you just have to be a bit stoic about it. Like, think about so many other things in your life where you are in a space or an event or a situation or a context that you can't change and you just have to find a way to accept it. And so learning how to overcome a fear of flying, actually what it really does is teach you a lot of lessons about dealing with discomfort and anxiety and your inability to control a situation in general. Like, it helps teach you how to do that in so many other broader areas of your life. But again, just to summarize, those are the real big reasons that we fear flying. We fear. A terrible event occurring.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  Maybe we fear death, we fear injury, we fear the plane crashing. And therefore we become quite worried about turbulence, we become quite worried about small little things. And then we also have a deeper fear of the unknown, a fear of being out of control. And also claustrophobia, a fear of enclosed tight spaces. When you have a fear of flying, if you're not someone who's familiar with this, what this can feel like is a lot of anticipatory anxiety. So I remember last year I caught a flight from Bali to New York. And the whole two to three days before that happened, it was all I could think about.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  I was obsessed, I was obsessed, I was Googling what kind of model the plane was gonna be. I had to know exactly where my seat was gonna be, had to know exactly what food was gonna be served on board. What time we were departing, what time we were landing, all the possibilities of things that could go wrong and yada, yada, yada. Like, it was all, this like information seeking was all coming back to anticipatory anxiety. Like, I wasn't actually in any danger at that point, I wasn't being triggered, I wasn't in the situation that I feared. But my brain was almost like, well, let's prepare you by almost copying the anxiety that you will eventually feel right now, so you can get used to it. Of course, that didn't work, like, it doesn't work.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Your brain tries to come up with all these different ways to manage something that it sees as difficult. But really, the biggest thing you can do for yourself is expose yourself to the fear and see that you are still capable, which we're going to get to eventually. The other big thing with the fear of flying that you're likely to feel is like when you get on the plane, I would sweat, I would shake, I would, like, um, like, just literally, my whole body would shake and I would be like pushing my foot up and down, like bouncing my foot up and down. Everything felt very, very hot. I felt like I needed to run, I literally felt like a scared rabbit. And I found that actually that was the worst before takeoff. But once we were like ten, twenty minutes into the air.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  I felt quite calm because I was like, okay, I'm in it now, I'm in it. Like the sense of like, yeah, there's really nothing I can do took over. And I was like, well, I may as well just enjoy this experience. So that's really what it feels like. It feels like a panic attack. It feels like a lot of anxious worry. It feels like you are stuck, you're trying to fight or flight, obviously trying to run away or fight back against this thing that feels like it's threatening you, i.e. being on an airplane. But it all comes back to like a real, like your, the fear center of your brain and your like nervous

• 28:43Speaker 01

  system is not properly responding to your circumstances. So it's seeing danger where danger is not. Yes, danger could eventually appear, but you're not actually in any danger in that moment. Your brain is reading the environment and reading the context wrong. And when I began to realize that, that my anxious thoughts about something didn't make anything more or less likely to happen, that also was a great relief to me. So we're gonna take a quick break here and when I return, I want to really get into the tips that I have for overcoming my fear of flying. Stay with us.

• 29:28Jemma Sbeg?

  There's this moment in your twenties where you realize, oh, no one is double checking my finances for me anymore. It's just me, my bank account and a growing list of, wait, I forgot I subscribed to that. And honestly, that can feel overwhelming. So you could look into Bank of America Advantage Safe Balance Banking. It's perfect for this stage of life where you're figuring things out as you go. There are no overdraft item fees and if you are under twenty five, there's no monthly maintenance fee, which just makes it easier to stay on track. What stands out is that it doesn't try to overcomplicate things. It's not about being perfect with money. It's about having a system that helps you feel a little more in control.

• 30:10Jemma Sbeg?

  What's more, with safe balance banking, you could enroll in B of A rewards and enjoy cash back deals plus fraud and identity monitoring. If you are in that phase of I'm trying to get my life together financially, Bank of America Advantage Safe Balance Banking is a really solid place to start. Learn more at B of A dot com slash simple banking, member FDIC. I've been approaching my health really differently this year. I used to be really focused on maximizing and doing more. And now I'm just realizing that if I listen to what my body needs, I perform way better. And that's why I am obsessed with my Whoop. Truly, you guys, you know, I'm such a data and information driven person.

• 30:54Jemma Sbeg?

  And I love opening my Whoop app and seeing how my sleep, my stress, my strain is correlating with my mood, with my running performance, with how I'm just feeling day to day. I'm not an elite athlete by any means, but I do really benefit. And I also just really enjoy knowing more about my body. And Whoop also gives me these actionable personalized insights that have made me more intentional and meant that I make smarter decisions day to day about what I need, rather than just putting my foot on the gas and just going, going, going, going. New members can try Whoop with a 30 day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join dot whoop dot com slash psychology for your free month of Whoop.

• 31:39Jemma Sbeg?

  Who out here shops at CBS? Most of you, right? Well, if you're not signed up for extra care, you need to fix that. Because when you are, you get extra big deals. These are limited time offers you can find in store or in the app. And it's where being an extra care member pays off. So sign up now. If you're already shopping there, it's a no brainer. If you're not, well, you need to do something about that as well. Signing up couldn't be easier. And once you've joined, the exclusive member discounts instantly appear. You don't have to do anything, no coupons, you'll just enjoy savings on the items you buy most. We're talking about savings on essentials like household items, snacks, health, personal care products, plus travel and seasonal stuff too, all right there in store. Couldn't be

• 32:23Jemma Sbeg?

  easier. Deals refresh every two weeks, so there's always something new, but they don't last long. Extra big deals with extra care. Instant savings made simple. Head to your local CVS or open the CVS app, look for extra big deals and start saving today. This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know, they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is, lifting, cardio,

• 33:08Jemma Sbeg?

  Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com. These days, there are more people than ever telling you how to manage your health. And we've all gone down an internet rabbit hole exploring the latest health trends. Your social media feed is packed with wellness advice, telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health vs. Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy nominated science

• 33:50Jemma Sbeg?

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• 34:18Speaker 01

  The biggest thing I can say to you if you have a fear of flying is that you need to find any possible way to stop avoiding the situation. To stop avoiding flying, flights, airports, whatever it is. And what you wanna do is really approach that in slow, manageable steps. So I knew that when I was really getting ready to like beat this fear, or at least find a way to handle it, that I had this big thing coming up, this big flight that I really wanted to do. So I wanted to fly to London. I wanted to make it there and I wanted to be able to get on that plane and, you know, maybe not feel okay, but still be able to go through with it.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  So in the lead up, like the six month lead up to this flight, I started doing small things to help myself. So I went to a flight simulator. I would watch videos on YouTube of people entering planes, like getting onto a plane, sitting down, showing their surroundings. Like, um, a lot of them were like reviews of certain seats on like different airlines. Like, I'd watch like, oh, the Emirates A380, like flight from Doha to wherever. Like, like what the seats would look like and what the meals were like to just really see. Then I also started saying yes to opportunities that would require me to do very short flights. So one hour, two hour flights around Australia.

• 35:46Speaker 01

  And for the first couple of flights, I took someone with me. So I would literally be like, okay, does any of my friends need to fly to Melbourne this weekend? Let's see if we can get on the same plane. Like, I paid for my dad to like fly on one of my flights with me to just help expose me to this fear, this fearful state. So the first flight I did was an hour, I think it was even less. And I did it with my dad and it was hard. It was hard, but actually. I realised by the end how proud I was, how much relief I felt getting off the plane. And how I was like, wow, that was not as hard as I thought it was. And that's what the avoidance makes you believe. It keeps you in this state where the biggest source of truth is your fear about a situation.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  And your thoughts about a situation, often which are false. So. The only truth you have to rely on is what your brain is coming up with. But when you actually expose yourself to the situation, a much different reality becomes apparent. I then did a two hour flight with a friend, um, just me and her, and then a one hour flight by myself. And that was really hard because we got stuck on the tarmac and that was something that I hadn't anticipated. And it kind of threw me for a loop. But what I did was I was just reminded myself of. How it felt to have someone else there with me, how really like I was still able to do it by myself. And I had a list of things that I knew would help me out. So I still have this list in my phone.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  And it's a number of strategies that, and you would calm my anxiety and break me out of a panic attack. So one of them was to just do some guided meditation, to do a breathwork exercise. I actually downloaded this um, app called the Dare app, which I've spoken about before. And they do guided meditations for a fear of flying and guided meditations for panic attacks. And I would just sit and I would listen to that meditation until I felt better. I also would just do jumping jacks at the back of the plane, like in the little flight attendant area. Just until I felt better or squats, something that would like make me feel like. I was escaping or doing something about the anxiety within me.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  I put cold water on my wrists, I had something sour to buy into. I also would bring colouring in books. I just had a lot of. It almost felt like I was building a military, right? Like I was building my line of defences against this anxiety. And I said, I'm only allowed to panic if I get through all these things and I don't feel better. Obviously, you know, maybe my anxiety would be able to jump a couple of hurdles. But I had a whole list of things that I could do. So there was no way that it could get through all of them. Something was bound to work, something was bound to make me feel better. And I also just allowed myself to be okay with being scared.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  I was like, okay, I'm just gonna accept this feeling like I feel anxious. But I'm gonna look around at my environment. Is there anything to feel anxious about? Is there anything to feel scared about? And what I would do is I would look to other people and I would mirror their response. So I'd look at the people in front of me, I'd look at all the heads of the people on the plane and I'd be like, okay, well, these people seem fine. These people aren't panicking. So obviously, like, if I can't trust myself and my own evaluation of the situation, I can trust theirs and they seem okay. I also reminded myself something that I knew ver- very much to be true. It's the biology of us as humans, our psychology is that we cannot panic forever.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  So even if I was on the verge of a panic attack, I knew that eventually it would subside. So it was okay if I felt myself falling into this state. It wasn't gonna last forever. It was eventually going to go away. I know that my body could only sustain panic and that level of alertness and stress for so long. So I remind myself, it's just sensations, you know, it's just my body trying to protect me. It doesn't change what is actually happening. I also wanna say, flight attendants, they know how to handle this. They see this all the time.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  And I've actually seen a flight attendant help someone who was panicking on a flight. I've seen random strangers help someone who was panicking on a flight. You've got to remember, most people are very, very kind and very, very good. If you were sitting next to someone on a plane who turned next to you, turned to you and said, I'm really, really scared, would you dismiss them? No, you'd be like, I totally understand. Let me help you. So you've got to understand that most other strangers will also do that for you as well. Most people are genuinely very nice. And even if they aren't, the flight attendants have to be, like, they're getting paid to be there. They aren't just decorative, like, they have done a lot of training and their training also involves

• 40:47Speaker 01

  how to handle really heightened emotional states for people for whom this is a big fear. My other biggest, biggest tip, the thing that I still swear by to this day, and this is particularly the case with long haul flights, is to, don't, like, just don't let yourself be bored. Create itineraries for each flight. The same way that you might wake up and you might create a timed to-do list about your day, like, you would create an itinerary for, like, a holiday of, like, in the morning, we do this, in the afternoon, we do this, in the evening, we do this, like, these are our activities for the day. I would do the same for each of my flight. And the day before, I would make one of these itineraries.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  So let me see if I can pull one up from my flight to London that I was talking about. Okay, here it is. I've managed to find it. So we had two flights. This was flight one. I will also say that for my flight to London, at the last minute, I did ask my dad to come with me and I paid for his flight, which is something I felt very lucky to be able to do. I had all these points that I had been, like, saving up for literally, like, because I wasn't flying anywhere. But before COVID, I flew a lot and I'd, like, saved up all of these points for that trip to Europe I was meant to be doing, never used them, so I used those to get my dad a flight so that he could come with me because I was really, really scared. But this is what my itinerary looks like. So hour one, talk to my dad and get settled.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  Hour two, I had my routine, like, my nighttime routine. So I got a face mask, I brushed my teeth, I put on my noise-canceling headphones. Hour two, again, put on a movie. Hour three, finish movie and do some knitting. Hour four, have my first round of snacks, eat meal. So, like, I was scheduling things to look forward to. Each hour, hour five, start second movie, get ready for sleep, take a melatonin. Then it was like hour six, hour seven, hour eight, sleep. But if not, I had alternatives, which was to edit some of my podcast episodes. Or to do some coloring in. I even had other things to do as well, like um I had a little Lego set.

• 42:57Speaker 01

  So I had activities, like I was prepared. Then hour like ten, eleven, twelve, I had like um. Instructions to make Instagram posts, like I had everything set up so that I had more things to do. Movie three, and then hour like fourteen, prepare to land. And then my second flight, this is what I said, I said. It was an eight hour flight, I said, this is just like a nine to five workday. Like that is what this is. If I would easily sit in an office. For eight hours in the same space that I would sit in a chair on a plane. Like this is the same amount of time. So I had my hour one, get settled, have some snacks, listen to a podcast, hour two, do another face. Face mask, hour three, I could either write some episodes or write my books, I was writing my book at the time.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  Or I could watch a movie, hours, movie, movie, write, write. Hour seven, listen to a podcast, read, hour eight, talk to dad, prepare to land. So like I had this itinerary for myself that would help me feel like my time was full. The day before my flight as well, the morning before, I would go and get everything that I needed. To buy slash needed to bring with me slash wanted to have. So this is what I had for. Like the list, I needed to buy sour candy, compression socks, a puzzle book. I also brought magazines, an eye mask, toothbrush and toothpaste, portable charger, water bottle. I also bought my prescription.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  Sour candy. I also had instructions for myself to download five movies. That seems a little bit excessive. Make sure that everything. Was charged, wear comfortable but fashionable clothes, which will come into the next tip that I have. And then the morning of my flight, I went for a really big swim and a really big run, so that I was exhausted. Then I had an everything shower. And had a really healthy breakfast. All of these things, like putting myself in the best possible place to. Be prepared for this flight and I had a daily reminder at the top of this list. So this is my list that I have on my phone called Flight Prep. I haven't updated it since the third of December, but the reminder on the top of my phone said,

• 45:05Speaker 01

  you need to do hard things to grow, acknowledge the fear and run towards it anyway. And so I had this like huge comprehensive list to come back to. And can I tell you something? That those itineraries, that whole plan, I didn't once have to use it. Not once. It was so important that it was there. But once I got onto the plane and I settled in and I maybe did the first hour or two of my routine, I realized that all of this preparation, really what it was doing was just making me feel more ease with the possibility of discomfort. But after the first hour, I wasn't uncomfortable. I wasn't scared. I wasn't anxious.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  I was okay. So I was really able to relax into the situation. That is really what this preparation taught me is that you can do all that you wanna do. But when you are in the situation, the chances are it's not going to be as bad or as hard as you previously thought it was. Now, I wanna bring us all back to that thing I said before that may have sounded strange. Wear comfortable but fashionable clothes. This links to something that I still to, still do to this day, which is that I romanticize the privilege and the act of flying by, and this is gonna sound really silly, imagining that I'm someone really famous or really important.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  And the person that I tend to imagine is that I am Taylor Swift and that I am getting on my flight and that this is just part of business. And I romanticize this whole process of like having the opportunity to be a jet setter, what that means, like what that feels like. And like, would that person feel anxious? Would like Taylor Swift feel anxious about flying? Probably not. Like, would Beyonce feel anxious about flying? Probably not. Like, this is, this is like what they do. Like, this is what it means to be someone who is successful. And I kind of like to pretend that I'm someone else in that moment. I am someone more capable. I am someone for whom this is really, really normal. And it really, really works.

• 47:10Speaker 01

  Visualizing and romanticizing the process. Visualizing getting off the plane as well. Visualizing what it's gonna feel like to literally put your feet on the tarmac or on like the, whatever it is, like the um walkway, like visualizing that sensation, visualizing your first breath of fresh air when you get off the plane. Also really, really profound, like your mind has like has so many superpowers and hidden talents and hidden capabilities built into it to get you through hard situations. And its ability to reflect and remember and visualize and imagine future situations or past peaceful situations

• 47:55Speaker 01

  is something that you can use to really pull yourself into a calm space when you are maybe panicking or you are maybe spiraling. I also mentioned having a go-to meditation that you know and you have proven to yourself can bring you out of a stressed state. Mine was the Dare meditation. That's really useful. And finally, have a backup calming option. Now, I'm not gonna tell you to go out and get a Valium prescription or to rely on prescription drugs or whatever it is, or melatonin or something herbal or even like a glass of wine.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  But just knowing that you have it there without having to use it is incredibly helpful. So I did have a Valium prescription. But let me just tell you, I didn't touch it. Like I, for a lot of my long-haul flights now slash ever, like I think I've only taken it once and it was because I was really like, I was feeling quite ill and I was also really like not feeling well mentally. I was like hadn't slept for like a couple of days just because I'd been so run off my feet and jet lagged. That was the only time I used it. But I have taken so many international long-haul flights where I have not needed it. But just the fact that I have it in my toiletries bag

• 49:16Speaker 01

  or that I know I can have a glass of red wine and feel better even if, even though I don't drink on flights. That has been so powerful. Again, it's just giving your brain and giving yourself all of these hurdles that it has to jump over before you are going to let yourself panic. So having all of these different things that you can focus on, that you can zoom in on, that you can feel comforted by before you feel like you have to let your sensations take over. I wanna also remind you of that reminder I had at the top of that list. In order to grow, you have to do hard things. So if you are someone who has avoided flying, who is scared of it, who feels really uncomfortable,

• 49:59Speaker 01

  it does get easier and you do see more of the rewards of putting yourself in a hard situation, an uncomfortable situation, something that you don't actually wanna do, but which you are able to come out of and realize that you are so grateful to yourself for doing it. And it's actually not very common, I think, in our day and age that we do things that are very difficult and that we push ourselves really hard into a place of discomfort and even fear and are still able to come out the other side and see the rewards. Flying, when you have a fear of flying, is such a great opportunity to feel what it really means to, you know, feel deeply proud of yourself and deeply accomplished

• 50:43Speaker 01

  for doing the hard thing over the easy thing. So I'm wishing you so much luck. I know this is really, really hard, but I also want you to know that as someone who used to be so afraid that she would get off flights, that she would drive fricking thirteen hours to get places, who, you know, avoided so many opportunities because of her fear. I have been able to get over it. Yes, like it's not completely gone, but in like two weeks, I'm flying solo to the US for work and then flying back and that's like a fifteen hour flight and. The level of anxiety I feel about it is nowhere near what I would have experienced two or three years ago, and I feel completely, fully capable of doing it.

• 51:27Speaker 01

  And I believe that you can feel that way as well. So sending you lots of love, peace, strength, calm, and the opportunity to really push yourself and to learn and to see what you are capable of. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you are someone who also has a fear of flying, and you have a tip or a suggestion or a piece of advice that you personally have used that I didn't mention, please drop it in the comments below. I would love to have the comment section on Spotify just be, you know, just a huge page and piece and community notice board of advice and feedback and tips and tricks for all of us to learn from each other.

• 52:11Speaker 01

  I think that would be really, really useful. And again, send this to someone who you think might need to hear it. If you have a friend who you know also experiences this, who was one of the 40%, or a parent or a family member who has been avoiding or putting off flying for some of the very reasons we talked about, maybe this could help them. So feel free to share it. And if you haven't already, make sure that you are following along the psychology of your twenties. Leave us a five star review and follow us on Instagram at that psychology podcast. If you have further thoughts, questions, queries about this episode, or you want to suggest another episode, I love hearing from you all over there. And until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Happy flying, safe travels, and we will talk very, very soon.

• 53:01Jemma Sbeg?

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• 53:45Jemma Sbeg?

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• 54:27Jemma Sbeg?

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