The 2025 Golden Globes: ‘The Brutalist’ and ‘Emilia Pérez’ Usher in a New Era

Sean and Amanda are joined by ‘House of R’ host Joanna Robinson to react to the 2025 Golden Globes, an up-and-down award show highlighted by strong performances from Brady Corbet’s ‘The Brutalist’ and Jacques Audiard’s ‘Emilia Pérez.’ They also discuss the movies they were surprised performed weaker on the evening, like ‘Anora,’ ‘Conclave,’ and ‘Wicked.’ Finally, they evaluate the entertainment of the broadcast and host Nikki Glaser. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Joanna Robinson Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Video Producer: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  If you're a fan of the inner workings of Hollywood, then check out my podcast, The Town, on the Ringer Podcast Network. My name's Matt Bellini, I'm founding partner at Puck and the writer of the What I'm Hearing newsletter. And with my show, The Town, I bring you the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. Every week, we've got three short episodes featuring real Hollywood insiders to tell you what people in town are actually talking about. We'll cover everything from why your favorite show was canceled overnight, which streamer is on the brink of collapse, and which executive is on the hot seat. Disney, Netflix, who's up, down, and who will never eat lunch in this town again. Follow The Town on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:40Sean Fennessey?

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• 1:23Sean Fennessey?

  That's LinkedIn.com/thebigpicture. Terms and conditions apply. This episode of The Big Picture is brought to you by Amazon Prime. What pairs with a good comedy? The cozy blanket arriving with Prime. What pairs with a nail-biting thriller? Snacks arriving with Prime. What pairs with the big game on Prime Video? That new couch arriving with Prime. Whatever feeling you're after, Prime helps bring it to life with great entertainment and fast shipping that delivers what the moment calls for. From streaming to fast shipping, it's on Prime.

• 1:58Sean Fennessey?

  I'm Sean Fennessey.

• 1:59Speaker 02

  I'm Amanda Dobbins.

• 2:00Sean Fennessey?

  And this is the Big Picture Conversation Show about the Golden Globes. We are joined on Hollywood's second biggest night by Joanna Robinson, who has been helping us recap the Golden Globes and the awards race all season long. Hi, Jo.

• 2:14Speaker 02

  Hi, I'm thrilled to have Amanda back for this particular night especially. The one of the wildest, this is the most Hollywood being its most ridiculous self night, and who better but Amanda to share this moment with us?

• 2:28Amanda Dobbins?

  When Joanna showed up on the screen, I started talking to her as if I had been seeing her regularly for the last three months, which I have in my head, I've been listening. But I realized that this is the first time I'm actually seeing you, via screen, anyway, since I left. So, thank you. You've been doing a wonderful job. I'm thrilled to be here with you, to be able to to share hot takes in person. And do we have hot takes, or do we just have confusion?

• 2:55Sean Fennessey?

  Well, I think we have a confirmation of a new era of the Golden Globes, which is how I'd like to talk about this show with you guys. Well, it matters to what we do for a living when we talk about this stuff, right? I don't know that I emotionally care. But but it is notable that things feel, if not radically different, they feel a little different than they have in the past. The Golden Globes, as the three of us have talked about many times over the years, are, while very notable and glitzy, kind of a joke. They're kind of a silly award show. They're the award show where the celebrities get drunk, and they have really mean hosts who make fun of people that make us plebs at home feel better about ourselves. That's the wild and silly show where 80 people

• 3:37Sean Fennessey?

  who don't live in this country, you know, hobnob with celebrities, and then they give them big gold statues. And now, this is an award show where a vast collection of international and arthouse performers are given very stately prizes and deliver sincere speeches about the greatness of their works and the potential for art. That's not the Golden Globes. That isn't what they do. So, this does feel different. Let me start by asking this. Did you think it was a good show tonight?

• 4:07Amanda Dobbins?

  I had a good time, but that is also because I, A, like awards shows, and B, am really happy to be among the land of adults. I, uh, just, thank you so much for having me. As previously documented on this podcast, I learned who Nikki Glaser was on Thursday.

• 4:24Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:25Amanda Dobbins?

  Um, that said, alive on the podcast, just doing some Googling.

• 4:30Speaker 02

  We love it.

• 4:30Amanda Dobbins?

  That's great. Thought she was very funny.

• 4:32Sean Fennessey?

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:32Amanda Dobbins?

  I chuckled at many of her jokes. I thought that the presenters were, as, almost as always the case, hit and miss, and mostly miss with a few times of me heckling the large screen, asking them to wrap it up. Um, but funny moments. This, the presenters were also kind of a lot of the star power of the show, which is, I guess, the case at most awards shows. But I didn't feel like I got that much people mingling and mixing.

• 5:04Sean Fennessey?

  That's true.

• 5:05Amanda Dobbins?

  At the Golden Globes. I, they, they had the interstitials. There was some hobnobbing, but there was no Taylor Swift and Selena Gomez exchanging gossip with 14 cameras on them, like there was last year, for example. So, there was just a lot of Hugh Grant and Jeremy Strong being seated at the same table right behind, um, one of the presenting modules.

• 5:31Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, you're number one boy, and me and Joanna is number one boy together.

• 5:34Amanda Dobbins?

  I am concerned about Hugh Grant's back, because he very politely was turned around 180 degrees in his seat. For every single award, your man doesn't miss. But also, like, he's getting on in age.

• 5:48Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 5:49Amanda Dobbins?

  So, I, I don't know what I-

• 5:50Sean Fennessey?

  You think maybe he had a girdle on? How do you think he was handling that?

• 5:53Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I mean, it, I, what do you think a girdle does?

• 5:55Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know.

• 5:57Amanda Dobbins?

  Like, do you, like, do you know where it's worn?

• 6:00Sean Fennessey?

  We're at the top of the show. Let's not. I gotta ask Joanna what she thought about the show. Just, you know, let's just simmer down.

• 6:05Amanda Dobbins?

  So it was okay. I don't know. Joanna, what did you think?

• 6:08Sean Fennessey?

  What did you think, Joanna? Did you like the show?

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Um, I thought these are some of the worst presenter bits I've ever seen in all my years covering award shows. I thought Nikki was great. I thought her bits were actually great, and I hate a host bit, but I thought all of hers worked really well. I thought the monologue was like, not the best I've ever seen, but really good. And I thought, uh, you know, we had a brief respite from the most embarrassing bits from presenters when Seth Rogen and Catherine O'Hara came up and their bit actually worked. And Seth Rogen called out the extremely terrible up-close-camera-angle presenter situation that was in the room, which I loved. Um, so yeah, I had a, an okay time, a much better time

• 6:52Speaker 02

  in the back half when we got some genuine surprises. And to your point, Sean, they weren't surprises of like, that's the Globes being wacky. It's like, that's the Globes asserting itself as an international voting body and just like really pivoting strong, uh, European flavor, uh, in some of their surprise wins. So yeah, I, I liked it. I didn't love it. And to Amanda's point, I do think we used to get more just cameras roaming around the room. Uh, I think the, the thing they had this year where they did the little like pop-up map of where everyone was sitting was deeply uninteresting and didn't add anything to the enjoyment. And I think we're gonna have to wait for the in-the-room gossip from

• 7:35Speaker 02

  like the reporters that were in the room to give us like who was talking to whom, sort of, that we usually get from those milling around the audience glimpses at the Globes. The Globes are just nonsense. And so the, the celebrity nonsense is part of the enjoyment, or it should be.

• 7:51Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. It, it didn't seem like anyone was having that much fun. But again, maybe it was just the cameras were not focused on that.

• 7:58Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I felt like the first hour, there was a kind of dead air quality to a lot of the presentation. I think the Globes, obviously, it's a television and film awards. We'll, we'll focus our conversations on the film winners tonight, but. Because of that, it's a very long show. It's got a lot of awards to give out. It's difficult to even fit bits in between the awards. There were mercifully no musical performances, but you're right that the kind of like atmospheric quality of the show was significantly reduced. I also think that we're in an interesting transitional stage starwise where we do have this very exciting young crop, some of whom were nominated tonight. You know, Zendaya was nominated tonight. Timothy Chalamet was nominated tonight. They didn't speak. They didn't come on stage. There were jokes made at their expense or very warmly at their expense and the camera

• 8:42Sean Fennessey?

  panned to them from time to time, but the show wasn't really about them. And I don't know that it was really about anything if you're looking for like a big theme. We can talk about what the actual awards wins mean. If anything, historically, they don't usually mean a lot, the Globes. But it's notable to me that we're not quite in the like Merrill clapping and pointing era. We're not in the Jack Nicholson front row nodding as the mayor of Hollywood era. There's something, you know, as we all transitioned through the streaming experience and more people being interested in TikTokers than people who open movies, there's something unsettled about modern award shows right now. And I could feel it watching this one for the most part.

• 9:22Speaker 02

  It felt very geriatric, like the star power that was there was like, and like with love and respect to our older stars, but a lot of them, you know, like Michael Keaton or Sharon Stone or a number of the people who went up to speak, some of them were like struggling through, uh, you know, reading, reading the prompter or whatever.

• 9:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Excuse me, Michael Keaton nailed every moment of his presentation and he looked great.

• 9:42Sean Fennessey?

  Amanda started tearing her clothes off and throwing herself at the screen when Michael Keaton appeared.

• 9:48Amanda Dobbins?

  I think Michael Keaton is, is really handling his later years with grace and I commented on it.

• 9:54Speaker 02

  I thought you were already completely disrode when Andrew Garfield took the stage. I didn't know that there was like an article of clothing left.

• 9:59Amanda Dobbins?

  We'll get there. Put a pin in Andrew Garfield and Joanna and I are gonna go through.

• 10:03Sean Fennessey?

  How many would like to put a pin in Andrew Garfield?

• 10:07Speaker 02

  Um, yeah, it felt, it felt the star power on stage felt older. And not even like that old, but like Salma Hayek's here looking incredible with gray streaks in her hair. But like, these are the stars of yesteryear are on the stage. And then even the awards that are going out are not anointing a new crop of like dewy eyed stars, which the Gold Globes used to like to do, sort of stake a claim on a, a new young actor or actress. So, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a very interesting situation we find ourselves in.

• 10:39Sean Fennessey?

  Well, every year at the Globes, there are two best film winners. There's musical or comedy and drama. This year was, we have an interesting crop. I asked you at the end of our last episode, how many films would be nominated for best picture from drama? And how many would be nominated for musical or comedy? I also asked you what would come first and what would come second in a telecast. This year, they closed the show with musical or comedy, which is what I thought would happen. And I thought that Wicked would win because of this and have a big triumphal, hooray for Hollywood kind of a moment.

• 11:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that's the, that's the Steven Soderbergh and we do, no, no, no, no, no.

• 11:12Sean Fennessey?

  That did not happen. That did not, Amelia Perez won.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  We don't reorder based on expectations.

• 11:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. And, you know, Amelia Perez is a movie, we've talked about it quite a bit, Joanna, in the last few months. It's a movie that obviously is doing extremely well during award season. We saw it do extremely well at the Oscar shortlist, did BAFTA shortlisting. And it's won here. It won a couple of awards tonight. And I, I thought either Wicked or Nora were really the only options. Um, and this has dispelled that. I'm still trying to personally sort out if that means anything at all. You know, you mentioned the international voting body power, Joanna. I think that that's a factor here when we look at best actress in a drama. You can also see that as a factor pretty significantly. But I was surprised. I picked Wicked, and if it was not going to be Wicked, I thought

• 12:00Sean Fennessey?

  Anora for sure. What was your reaction to the Amelia Perez win?

• 12:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Huh. But also, there were indicators throughout the night. I mean, Jack Odiard did win for-

• 12:08Sean Fennessey?

  International.

• 12:09Amanda Dobbins?

  International feature. Zoe Taldanya won for supporting actress, and then sort of won for "El Mal," the original song, or at least she got up on the stage for part of the absolutely endless acceptance speech for what was "Original Song" at the Golden Globes. So the momentum was there, and I just, as you said, Amelia Perez or Perez, which everybody switched on the emphasis. I guess if we're speaking in the original language, we're honoring the accent. If we're speaking in the English language, we're not.

• 12:43Sean Fennessey?

  Sharon Stone, I think, was using the French language because she read that it was a French submission?

• 12:48Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 12:49Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. Yeah, sure. You know, listen, we're all international now. It has been on every list, everything. It has been incredibly persistent. So I wasn't that surprised. I think I was more surprised that Anora totally blanked.

• 13:07Sean Fennessey?

  It did. Not a single win for Anora tonight.

• 13:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. Wicked, you could tell from the acceptance carnival for box office achievement. Yeah. And it reminded me a little bit of, I can't remember which awards show last year gave some sub-tier win to Barbie. I think like Barbie won Best Comedy or something. And then there was a very long acceptance speech and-

• 13:36Sean Fennessey?

  I think it was for Cinematic Achievement, was it not? Didn't Barbie win Cinematic-

• 13:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I won the box office award.

• 13:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah. I have no sources here. I'm wondering if these individuals get tipped off that it's the only time they're going to be on stage, because both circumstances have been a "this is my moment" to give a speech.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  Well, for John especially, I think they handed it over to John because he's like, been so blanked in however, like, Wicked is being received, and we all know-

• 14:01Amanda Dobbins?

  That's not true. The National Board of Review- Said that he was the best director of the year.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  But that John, that John is not going to get an award anywhere, and that if he's going to get a chance to give a speech, it's going to be here. And that was the sense of that.

• 14:15Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I agree with that.

• 14:16Speaker 02

  I wasn't surprised by Amelia Perez winning, again, because they nominated it so many times. I didn't really necessarily want it. I'm glad it won international. I didn't necessarily want it to win because I feel very mixed about the film itself. And I think there is a weird... I just, I don't, I haven't talked to a lot of people who like this film, so I don't understand why it keeps rolling along. Zoe Saldana winning makes a lot of sense to me for other reasons, but there is almost this just sort of like, you know, rolling downhill momentum of Amelia Perez that does not feel connected to anyone's emotion about that movie. You can make an emotional

• 15:01Speaker 02

  connection case for The Brutalist, certainly, for Wicked, for Enora. You know, I've talked to people who love, both inside the industry and out, who love those movies. And I'm just having a hard time finding people who love Amelia Perez and think it's the film of the year, outside of people who work for Netflix.

• 15:17Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, you know, while we were watching the show after this win, you said to me, it's like, what is this movie really about? What is the message of this movie? What was the artistic intention of this movie? I'm like, you can take it apart. I have a fairly cynical and ungenerous reading of the movie, the way the movie works, but that it's a movie about like, not burying your inner self, right? And becoming the self you always were meant to be, to become a better and more fully-realized person, which I think is an idea that if it is resonating with voters for the Golden Globes, or voters for the Academy Awards, or BAFTA, or whatever body, whatever group of artists are voting on this especially, I think that makes sense. I think it's a very similar story for The Brutalist, which is a movie that maybe has a completely different emotional reputation.

• 16:01Sean Fennessey?

  And obviously, I have made exceptional light of the Brutalist Boys gag here, but I think what you saw tonight, in this film, winning a bunch of awards, winning frankly, the three historically big male awards, the Best Film for Drama, Best Director, and Best Male Actor in a Drama.

• 16:20Sean Fennessey?

  A very sincere people, you know, who are very sincere about art, sort of achingly and perhaps ridiculously sincere, but like, the two movies actually, when you put them next to each other, even though they have basically nothing in common superficially... They're about this kind of like belief in something that people like us tend to turn our noses up at, you know, that we tend to be like a little bit above. And I find it interesting that like something like Wicked, or even something like Conclave, which is such a confection, it's such a Hollywood Pete product, you know, it's a good Hollywood product, but it's a very Hollywood product, very classical.

• 17:01Amanda Dobbins?

  It was the basis for many, many jokes tonight, funny jokes, including I'm Popular, which even I got, that was funny. Good job, good job, Nikki Glaser. Certainly tonight, and then throughout this season, you know, I mean, a Conclave is applicable to so many things, but there is something that people can latch on to with it.

• 17:23Sean Fennessey?

  Yes, just think of the meal Billy Crystal would have made of Conclave. I mean, he really would have soared with Cardinal material.

• 17:30Speaker 02

  When she was doing Popular, I got like, which was not, which was a good bit because she, you know, lamb shaded that it was a bad bit, but like, I got such strong Billy Crystal nostalgia. It made me really hurt and miss him. And that era. I think to your point about earnest messaging, something that, you know, we were talking about a little bit as the award show was going on, something we've talked about before the award show, something everyone says that the Golden Globes is a really good chance to like audition for your Oscar, or cement your narrative. Like, Kieran Culkin has been the only main frontrunner. And while the Globes, even in their new era, are not indicative necessarily

• 18:12Speaker 02

  of any wins at the Oscar, they are a chance for, you know, a gangbusters acceptance speech to sort of turn the tide. And I think there are like, you know, a few that we've already, you know, talked about off pod that we'll talk on pod, but I think.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  What Brady said about The Brutalist and setting up The Brutalist now in a way that Sean has been for a while as like a battle for the soul of Hollywood, essentially, like a vote for The Brutalist is a vote for the director's cut. Um, I think is, I don't think it was cynically done, but I think it was effectively done. And similarly, Amelia Perez like comes out as this, you know, staring down the barrel of a Trump administration moment in Hollywood. And, and is this going to stand as a reaction to that in some way? Um, so that idea of like messaging and positioning the larger narrative, which has just been come increasingly important, uh, you know, over the years as we've all, all three of us have been covering the awards

• 19:13Speaker 02

  race, this idea of like, what's the story here? What's the narrative for this win? Kieran doesn't have one and, but he's already a lock, so that's fine. But Adrian Brody had to create one and he did. Uh, Demi Moore got a chance to create one. Zoe Saldana got a chance to create one. And so that's, um, that's what, that's what the Golden Globes in, in this larger awards conversation is you two will continue to have, really effectively does.

• 19:38Sean Fennessey?

  What do you make of The Brutalist win? You haven't seen it, obviously. You're seeing it this week.

• 19:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes. I was about to give away what day.

• 19:46Sean Fennessey?

  Feel free.

• 19:46Speaker 02

  Are you excited?

• 19:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Um, yeah, I mean,

• 19:49Speaker 02

  Or are you apprehensive?

• 19:50Sean Fennessey?

  I'll drop a pin and share it on Twitter.

• 19:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Sue, Sue, thank you to the big picture community who has been reporting back on their experience at the Vista. And I, and I have to say, I'm mostly anxious about the line and, and how long one has to wait in line at the Vista while having already purchased a ticket to get in. So that's, that's kind of where I am right now. And I, and I feel like whatever's going on with the bathroom lines should also be applied to outside the theater. That's what I think. That's just, you know, one woman advocating for, for all of us.

• 20:25Sean Fennessey?

  I'll speak to the committee that organizes movie theater lines on your behalf.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  Thank you for championing women, Amanda, always.

• 20:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, here we are. Just doing my part. No, you know, I'm curious. Um, it is, and I've been trying so hard to avoid media about it, both because I don't want it to be spoiled and also because.

• 20:47Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, there, there's a certain flavor to some of it that I think could turn me off. And I, and I, I don't want to do that. I would like to go in with as open a mind as I can for someone who absolutely loathe the film Box Lux. But tonight, I, it didn't put me off, actually, the three wins. And, you know, it was like teetering on the edge and even, you know, final cut, cut tie, like director, whatever. I was like, oh no, we're going to a bad place. But it came back to a point of real sincerity. I mean, the inclusion of the daughter who looks exactly like him and her little face just in the frame for the, I mean, the crying during Best Director.

• 21:31Sean Fennessey?

  My heart was going to explode.

• 21:32Amanda Dobbins?

  It was beautiful. Like, I, like, you know, I-

• 21:34Sean Fennessey?

  The, the girl dad just jumped right out.

• 21:37Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm a monster and I was totally moved. It was, it was great. And then when it won Best Drama, the, the way the acceptance frame panned out, she was just like right there in the corner, looking just like him. And I was like, okay, this is coming from like a real place. So my heart's still open, you know?

• 21:55Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. I mean, I, it's, it's a tricky one, right? Because I think all movies, we have preconceived notions, right? And this one in particular, I think has done an amazing job of having a, a narrative around it, around its length, which we heard from the announcer who should, who I, he's probably still talking right now. The guy who is announcing after the wins of the Golden Globes. Golden Globes producers, if you're listening to this episode, never again.

• 22:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Cut it out.

• 22:19Sean Fennessey?

  That producer who, that, that person who talks when someone wins, cut that out. We don't need that. We don't want that. No one wants to hear factoids while someone walks to the podium. Do not do it. Creating a moment of grandeur.

• 22:30Amanda Dobbins?

  A famous person. But sometimes they get a, didn't they have like, they had a famous person do it one year and it was like actually kind of entertaining. I want to say it was like Glenn Close, but it probably didn't.

• 22:38Sean Fennessey?

  It was like Neil Patrick Harris. Like it doesn't, we don't need that, Joanna. The, make a moment of quietude before the speech. That's the whole point of award shows. Trick us into thinking this matters and it's not a fucking episode of You Don't Know Jack.

• 22:53Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I can't let Sean's awards show Bible like draw me in right now. We'll get to it later. I don't disagree with you on this. I didn't, I didn't think that those comments were very good.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  Sean, there was a bird fact about Nicolas Cage when he came out on stage.

• 23:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Pop-up video forever, okay? We're children of the 90s.

• 23:10Sean Fennessey?

  The geodesic dome that his pet, what kind of bird was it?

• 23:15Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 23:16Sean Fennessey?

  A crow, I believe. Thank you, Jack. It was a crow. His pet crow, first of all, Nick Cage. You're the real one. Thank you, Nick Cage.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 23:25Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I, I, I just dispense with all of the facts. I don't want any of that stuff.

• 23:30Speaker 02

  Geodesic dome.

• 23:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Huguen, Huguen. Okay.

• 23:34Sean Fennessey?

  Huguen.

• 23:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, according to Google, but this is not, I mean.

• 23:38Sean Fennessey?

  That's the crow's name?

• 23:38Amanda Dobbins?

  But that's also what I got when I Googled crow Hoover. So I don't know whether I'm misleading.

• 23:45Sean Fennessey?

  No, it is Hoover. The crow's name was Hoover.

• 23:47Amanda Dobbins?

  According to Rolling Stone right now, it's Huguen.

• 23:49Sean Fennessey?

  Wow.

• 23:50Amanda Dobbins?

  Um, whatever.

• 23:51Sean Fennessey?

  This is what happens when, when media is eroded in the way that it has been. We can't even figure out this crow's name. This is shameful.

• 23:58Amanda Dobbins?

  But see, the thing about the voiceover, which you said in the, in the moment, besides it being not good, was describing The Brutalist as a three and a half hour epic with an intermission and, you know, and the very, very solemn three wins tonight for The Brutalist made me, Amanda Dobbins, a, a professional film watcher, who's like probably derelict in her job for not having seen it yet, excited to see the movie. Does it make anyone else in the United States of America excited to see this film? I don't know.

• 24:35Sean Fennessey?

  Well, one of the things that Brady said that I thought was interesting in his second speech was as he was valorizing Final Cut and talking about the intention of empowering filmmakers, is he used the phrase, "It worked." Like, "My movie worked. My plan worked," which was, if, if looked at in one direction, you could be like, "Wow, this guy's really full of himself." If you've looked at it in another direction, you'd be like, "This movie just made a million dollars on like eight screens in a week, and now it's probably gonna make north of $10 million, if not more, at the box office just in this country." Which, to his point, that is a movie like this working. And I think it's not dissimilar from the sentiments that were shared by Corr Jefferson at the Academy Awards last year. Right? When he was like, "There's a middle ground. There's a $20 million movie. There's a $30 million movie. Let's not forget about these movies."

• 25:19Sean Fennessey?

  I think he was really more in the spirit of that ultimately than, "I'm a genius and should be always given Final Cut."

• 25:24Speaker 02

  I didn't think he was saying I'm a genius. I think it reminded me of the conversations that have been bubbling around Nosferatu or Complete Unknown, like the successes that we've seen at the end of the year with strong visions from like, you know, directors that we know and love and who have been sort of building and building and building a resume. And Brady Corbet is not exactly that yet, though this has certainly anointed him into a new level. But I think that was the idea, was just sort of like, let artists be artists. And even at the Golden Globes where we gave out a box office award to Wicked, we can still have genuine artists win across the board here. And like similarly, like something

• 26:06Speaker 02

  like Shogun, which, which, yes, I mean, we're not here to talk about television, but like there, or Baby Reindeer was like the sentiment, like, this is a sentiment of like, this wasn't expected to be as massive as it was, but we were allowed to do, to execute our vision. And in a Hollywood that is increasingly terrified to let artists be artists, like that, that seemed to be the emerging message of the night.

• 26:30Amanda Dobbins?

  Totally. And I agree with all of it. And I, when I say that I don't know how broad of an appeal it had, I didn't mean believing in filmmakers. I just meant a three and a half hour small, the art house movie. And, you know, that, that applies to The Brutalist, but sort of across the board for the wins, which, you know, I think we like a lot of the wins. It's very cool that, that a lot of these smaller films are, are being recognized. But if you're tuning in and you're not a devoted listener of this show or a devoted Letterboxd user, are you, are you, are you connecting?

• 27:09Speaker 02

  Well, I want to say two things. Number one, Amanda, I just want to let you know, and maybe I've already expressed it on this podcast.

• 27:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  I don't love The Brutalist.

• 27:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, okay.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  I like thinking about The Brutalist, and I like that it exists, and I like how much Sean likes The Brutalist. I like that for him. But like, I personally am not enamored of The Brutalist. I thought Adrian Brody was really good. I'm really curious to hear what you think about it. Um, so I'm not saying like, it's a perfect film and anyone who says it isn't, is, is wrong. But to your point about, do we, do we have to appeal to the masses? We, we want everyone to go to the, the movies. This is like, we love the movies. We want everyone to go. But I think this is the conversation I know that you and Sean have been having, and like, all of us who've been covering awards have been having for years, which is like, Yeah, we want a Top Gun Maverick nominated. We want people to like get excited, but like,

• 27:58Speaker 02

  or is that era over and should we just lean into, you know, honoring the movies that really say something and do something and not worry about, well, what will the why appeal? Because the, the, the massive, everyone's tuning into the Academy Awards moment seems to be, I feel like, gone forever. We're not getting it back. So instead of trying to grasp at it, should we just lean into Amelia Perez and The Brutalist, et cetera, et cetera, you know?

• 28:26Sean Fennessey?

  Well, just to that point then, let me just say the names of the films that won awards tonight.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 28:31Sean Fennessey?

  Because I think you're pointing out something insightful here, Amanda. Amelia Perez, A Real Pain, Conclave, Amelia Perez Again, The Substance, A Different Man, Flo, The Brutalist, Challengers, Amelia Perez Again, Wicked, which was a box office win, I'm Still Here, The Brutalist, The Brutalist, and Amelia Perez. So.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  So eight twenty-four, eight twenty-four, eight twenty-four, eight twenty-four, Netflix, Netflix, eight twenty-four.

• 29:03Sean Fennessey?

  Setting aside the original score win for the, for Challengers, is Conclave the highest grossing film? And maybe The Substance is the highest grossing film on this list.

• 29:12Speaker 02

  It might be.

• 29:13Sean Fennessey?

  You know, that's kind of fascinating.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:16Sean Fennessey?

  Now, obviously, this is not voted on by a very large body. It's only three hundred or so people that are voting, and they're mostly journalists and critics. They don't represent what SAG does, or DGA, or BAFTA, or any of these other bodies that we'll see in the next two months. But it's fascinating that for this big fancy TV show, that like fucking Flo won. Flo.

• 29:36Speaker 02

  Flo rules.

• 29:37Sean Fennessey?

  Tiny Latvian animated feature.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  A win for cat people.

• 29:40Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, which is up against a Pixar billion dollar movie, and The Wild Robot, which is a big sensation, and Wallace and Gromit, which is one of the most celebrated animated, like, um, story types, like, that we've had in the last thirty years, and fucking Flo won. So, and this is the Globes.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  Right. But it's the new Globes.

• 30:01Sean Fennessey?

  Quite strange.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  It's the new Globes. And like, Amanda's right. Of course Amanda's right perfectly, and it's a great point. But I guess my question is, should, I, I'm kind of tired of worrying about that.

• 30:12Sean Fennessey?

  I, I'm not worried. I do think it is extremely notable, though, in part because last year, I don't know if this is going to be true this year, but last year. The template felt very set, but the Globes more or less exactly predicted the Academy Awards. And if this is the Academy Awards this year, I'm gonna be like, yo. The thing that we have been talking about and saying like, oh, well, we gotta keep people involved. And how do we get back to 40 million people? Like, then we're, the book is closed on that conversation, like, close, close. Like, we don't, we shouldn't even, I shouldn't even bring it up to you anymore.

• 30:47Amanda Dobbins?

  I want to be clear, don't put it in the newspaper that I'm mad. I'm not concerned.

• 30:53Amanda Dobbins?

  But, you know, I will say, this is an interesting awards year because for the last three months, when the season really starts heating up, I like, I have been on the sidelines. And I have been catching up and sort of participating as a civilian and listening to you guys and trying to catch up. But I, so I do feel like I'm coming to it slightly more as a-

• 31:14Sean Fennessey?

  Like a civilian.

• 31:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  A woman of the people.

• 31:18Amanda Dobbins?

  As I always have been, sure. Speaking for everyone.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, a populist.

• 31:25Amanda Dobbins?

  It's not that I feel turned off, I'm just a little like, huh, okay. You know, and I, and I thought that that feeling was because it has been such a scattered awards year. And I think it was a scattered movie year, you know, like, we all had our things that we really loved, but there hasn't really been a center.

• 31:43Amanda Dobbins?

  And, or maybe because I was like, well, when I catch up, I'll understand. But it's just kind of a strange year, and that's okay. And it's like, it doesn't, you know, the Golden Globes will live or on and the Oscars will as well. But it's, it's a, it's a little strange.

• 31:57Sean Fennessey?

  It is a strange year. It's of course a strange year post-strikes. And there are a number of other factors that are contributing to it. I think one thing that is probably worth citing, and of course, I'm always in some sort of doomsaying mode because I'm inherently negative as a person, but just because we're awarding-

• 32:12Speaker 02

  Should we get you a girdle? Would that help?

• 32:14Amanda Dobbins?

  But like, literally, what do you think a girdle does?

• 32:17Sean Fennessey?

  We're perilously close to holding my arms in front of me territory.

• 32:21Speaker 02

  That was the Golden Globes last year.

• 32:23Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I better not say.

• 32:27Sean Fennessey?

  What movie? Well, I just watched a movie and someone was saying that they, oh, I think it was Nick Holt? Had to wear a girdle. No, Aaron Taylor Johnson wore a girdle every day during the production of Nosferatu, because it was meant to show the posture that a man of his stature in that time period should have.

• 32:43Speaker 02

  Or was he trying to gain just a little bit more height to get closer to Nicholas Holt?

• 32:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, well, he should have gotten some lifts to make that happen because he was a solid five inches below. We stan Nicholas Holt, our favorite.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  We love Nicholas.

• 32:57Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, so the thing that can happen is, fine, Jack Nicholson, he's gone, Meryl Streep, Denzel, that's never coming back.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  Denzel was in the room tonight. They showed him for like one second during his category.

• 33:09Sean Fennessey?

  Let's, we know that era is over, right? We're in a different time. Netflix has all this spending power. Streaming has messed with movies. People don't like, don't care about movies as much as they did even 10 years ago. It's all settled. What still will happen, which is of course the foolishness of award shows and all of our investment in them, is that they'll award smaller films and in theory, better films. But then they'll also just give their big prize to Emilio Perez. And like, so that's a movie that nobody saw and nobody, Joanna knows or I know, think is good. So then you're like, all right, so we're obscure, but we're also not giving a Nora or, or The Brutalist the Best Picture either.

• 33:50Sean Fennessey?

  You know, so there, it's a, it's a bit of a conundrum in terms of justifying its own existence when the films are small and bad. I'm not saying that that's what's going to happen in the Academy Awards. If Emilio Perez wins Best Picture, I'm not going to be pumped.

• 34:05Speaker 02

  I'll be so confused. I'll not, I'll, I'll be confused. And I guess I will just have to eat my words that I said on this podcast several weeks ago about. Netflix never crossing, the fact that they would cross the finish line with Amelia Perez.

• 34:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Totally.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  And not all the other great films that have almost gotten there for them in the previous years, Roma, or like Mank, or whatever the case may be.

• 34:27Sean Fennessey?

  It goes back to the spirit that you were conjuring while Amanda was out, though, Joanna, which is that if it does win, it is that international thing.

• 34:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 34:35Sean Fennessey?

  It is Jacques Audiard, who is a widely acclaimed French filmmaker, who's won the Palme d'Or, and, you know, who I said while we were watching the show, I'm like, this guy's made some great movies. I can't believe this is gonna be the movie that he's gonna get celebrated for in America. This is so strange.

• 34:48Amanda Dobbins?

  It is on Netflix where it is available just widely to everyone immediately. So in some ways, it's like a proof of distribution as much as anything. I mean, I will also be surprised. I think we got one step closer to Zoe Saldana performing El Mal at the Oscars tonight, and I, you all know how I feel about that.

• 35:09Sean Fennessey?

  So.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  I'm pro that, especially if she like.

• 35:13Amanda Dobbins?

  I guess.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  What if she, what if she stands on like the chairs, like, you know, she does in the film, she stands on the tables. What if she goes out into the audience and starts pointing at the people in the audience?

• 35:23Amanda Dobbins?

  I think it would, it would be better if she did it with choreography than if she just stood on the stage and performed it. Because I would say, despite the very handsome couple who won a Golden Globe tonight, songwriting is not one of Amelia Perez's strengths.

• 35:40Sean Fennessey?

  That was the other moment when Amanda completely disrobed during the telecast, was when Clement du Col.

• 35:45Amanda Dobbins?

  No, that's not the, there were several other moments. I did, they, listen.

• 35:49Speaker 02

  How many layers did you bring for the disrobing?

• 35:51Amanda Dobbins?

  They're a very handsome French couple, you know? They just showed up.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  She had great hair. She had like great European hair.

• 35:57Sean Fennessey?

  She had French lady hair, for sure.

• 35:59Speaker 02

  When Trent and Atticus won, I was so excited.

• 36:02Amanda Dobbins?

  I was, I was dancing.

• 36:03Speaker 02

  I was thrilled.

• 36:05Amanda Dobbins?

  And that was one where the announcer kept talking over, I believe that was Match Point that played during, because that's the one that I run to, that's on my, my running mix.

• 36:13Sean Fennessey?

  The tune, that's the name of the song. Yes, Trent, Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross won for their score for Challengers, which we all love, which is amazing, and is frankly a not, I guess Trent Reznor is very famous, so you could say it does have the veneer of Old Globes, but. You know, the guy who sang Head Like a Hole is not exactly Frank Sinatra. So I, there's something unusual in even these, these more obvious choices.

• 36:35Amanda Dobbins?

  To me, it all felt very online. And I know that you were, you were like, no, this is more about.

• 36:42Sean Fennessey?

  For a lady who is awfully online.

• 36:45Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm online and then I'm offline, but you know what? Sometimes it was my only portal to the world for the last three months. So, you know, I liked seeing what the kids are up to.

• 36:53Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. You were like Haggard Old Demi in the kitchen, watching Margaret Qualley on the talk show every night.

• 37:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Wow. Like, I basically was.

• 37:02Sean Fennessey?

  We all are. That's the problem. That's what that movie works. We're all Demi.

• 37:07Speaker 02

  But I think if we, if we're awarding very online, like it's very online award punditry and not very online. Like all the kids are talking about Nosferatu right now.

• 37:16Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 37:16Speaker 02

  Or, you know, um, I, the movie that would solve all of this that came out this year is Dune Part Two. And the fact that a movie that is, was extremely popular and critically acclaimed and has great artistry going for it, is completely vanished, is one of the biggest mysteries. I mean, I understand why it's part two. I understand the whole sequel question. But Wicked is here and it's a part one, so that doesn't like fully fulfill the prompt for me. And maybe it's just that it happened at the beginning of the year and that feels like a million years ago. And one whole presidential election ago or something like that.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  But Dune Part Two, just completely vanishing is such, will remain in awards season mystery to me.

• 38:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Was Denis Villeneuve even in attendance tonight? It didn't look, it didn't seem like it.

• 38:06Sean Fennessey?

  He's not nominated, so I don't believe so.

• 38:08Amanda Dobbins?

  Zendaya was at the Luca Guadagnino table, which is where I would have chosen to sit, were anyone curious. No, actually.

• 38:14Sean Fennessey?

  Did you not get invited to that table?

• 38:15Amanda Dobbins?

  No, um, I, I think I would pick the Conclave table, to be honest. Those guys are having a great time.

• 38:21Sean Fennessey?

  Rafe was having a ball.

• 38:21Amanda Dobbins?

  They were like right next to Tucci, you know, and then Let's Go, they were like, one, two, three. That looks like the front table. Yeah, but so that table was right in front of the Complete Unknown table, which is where Timmy was seated, next to Kylie Jenner, by the way. I just want to note for everyone that he brought Kylie Jenner as his date. I know that, but they, it's like they haven't wa, I get, they attended last year at the same time.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  They attended last year and that was like a whole thing of them like sort of whispering to each other.

• 38:48Amanda Dobbins?

  It's a thing, you know, it's not like they're.

• 38:49Sean Fennessey?

  Do you think they're in love?

• 38:50Amanda Dobbins?

  I hope so, you know?

• 38:52Sean Fennessey?

  Cool. He's a wonderful actor.

• 38:54Speaker 02

  I just, I am desperately curious what they have in common and I would like to know. And maybe I'm just-

• 38:59Sean Fennessey?

  I believe they have Riz in common.

• 39:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 39:01Speaker 02

  Listen, and that's great, but will it last a lifetime?

• 39:03Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I, I would guess that they have spent 120 hours together, total. Like, that's it. And that's not even like, this is a fake relationship. This is just like, do you understand, like, their celebrity lives?

• 39:20Sean Fennessey?

  I'm so back in on Timmy. I'm not, we're not, we're not-

• 39:22Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm back in on Timmy, who?

• 39:23Speaker 02

  No, but my question is, are we underestimating Kylie?

• 39:27Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  That's my question.

• 39:28Sean Fennessey?

  The interviews I've seen with him, I'm like, this is my guy. This is, this guy is, is pure comedy to me.

• 39:34Amanda Dobbins?

  My time measurement is not a judgment on either of them. It's just that they're both really famous. Yeah, they're busy. Like, celebrity relationships are not like our relationships. They have not-

• 39:42Sean Fennessey?

  What do you, what do you think is Kylie's favorite Dylan record?

• 39:46Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, which?

• 39:48Sean Fennessey?

  Do you think, you know, Desire is celebrating an anniversary today? I believe, you think she's in Desire?

• 39:53Amanda Dobbins?

  When he was prepping.

• 39:54Sean Fennessey?

  Can I throw a Dylan, uh, take at you?

• 39:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 39:57Sean Fennessey?

  "One more cup of coffee is what everyone thinks knocking on heaven's door is." Bang. I do this for a living.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  Wow, you, standing ovation, the listeners at home just loved that take. I promise.

• 40:09Amanda Dobbins?

  I just, I saw that movie.

• 40:12Sean Fennessey?

  I still got my fastball, you know? Three-year-old in the house, doesn't matter. I'm still, I'm still cook. It's, it's 9:00 PM, feels like roughly 4:00 AM right now.

• 40:19Amanda Dobbins?

  So I saw the movie and then I listened to the A Complete Unknown podcast and you, you and Mallory, once you start going into the history, like, minute 90 of that podcast is some really intense stuff.

• 40:33Sean Fennessey?

  You wept because of how sincere and thoughtful our takes were?

• 40:37Amanda Dobbins?

  And you, no, I, listen, I am glad that you guys love something and that, also, you're way more sincere about everything with people other than me, so-

• 40:48Sean Fennessey?

  I know, you bring out the worst in me.

• 40:49Amanda Dobbins?

  I know, isn't it?

• 40:50Sean Fennessey?

  No, it's just the difference-

• 40:51Speaker 02

  I just, I- I no, I agree that he's more sincere, but you obviously, obviously clearly bring out the best.

• 40:56Amanda Dobbins?

  I know, but you're just like warmer and nicer and like, just like sharing your feelings about Bob Dylan with everyone. Just like a little much, you know?

• 41:04Sean Fennessey?

  You wouldn't have allowed me to do that, you know?

• 41:06Amanda Dobbins?

  I liked it very, very much. And I think I agreed with you most of the three. Like, it's, it's really just some performances, but.

• 41:13Sean Fennessey?

  Well, did we talk about it, Joanna? I don't know if we talked about it.

• 41:15Speaker 02

  You and I have talked, I think, talked informally about it, but I don't think we talked about it on the pod that much.

• 41:19Sean Fennessey?

  You did like it, though.

• 41:20Speaker 02

  I did. I did like it, but I didn't love it. It's not great and it's not even as good as Walk the Line is, so.

• 41:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Amen.

• 41:27Sean Fennessey?

  Interesting. You agree with that, too?

• 41:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 41:29Speaker 02

  But I thought Timmy was really good.

• 41:30Sean Fennessey?

  I think they're very different movies. They're interesting together, obviously. They're two representations of Cash. I actually think Boyd is a better Cash.

• 41:37Amanda Dobbins?

  But he also, he just gets to be the foil and charisma and he doesn't actually have to do the whole, like.

• 41:43Sean Fennessey?

  But you said you were listening to the soundtrack and there's a version of Big River that Boyd sings and I'm like, that's fucking Johnny Cash, man. He sounds like Johnny. Joaquin does not sound like Johnny Cash.

• 41:52Amanda Dobbins?

  I wasn't listening to the soundtrack. I went to.

• 41:54Sean Fennessey?

  You just said that. You said you pulled it up.

• 41:55Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I listened to the podcast.

• 41:57Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, the podcast.

• 41:58Speaker 02

  They're different.

• 41:59Amanda Dobbins?

  And then I played Highway 61 for my son.

• 42:01Sean Fennessey?

  Is this a podcast?

• 42:03Speaker 02

  They're different.

• 42:04Amanda Dobbins?

  But I played Bob Dylan, not Timothy Chalamet.

• 42:06Speaker 02

  They're different, but they're kind of the same in that, like, Mangold was sort of trying to recreate a lot of Walk the Line inside of this Dylan. Like, I think all of the love triangle stuff feels very much reaching for Walk the Line.

• 42:20Sean Fennessey?

  Totally agree.

• 42:21Speaker 02

  And even the way that he repeats a song that he uses in Walk the Line that is like a song of, a duet of tension.

• 42:28Amanda Dobbins?

  Beautifully, yes.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  In Walk the Line is repeated again in this, which was like a wild.

• 42:32Amanda Dobbins?

  And the way that Dylan and Joan Baez meet in A Complete Unknown is exactly the way that.

• 42:38Sean Fennessey?

  Crossing paths after performance.

• 42:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Cash and Carter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And kind of like the banter from the stage. Um, speaking of Joan Baez. I just, why are we not talking about Monica Barbaro? And why was she not nominated tonight? Like, what are, listen, as you said-

• 42:53Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know, we really needed to nominate Selena Gomez, that's why.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  Elle Fanning being, winning an award for that performance is one of the wildest things.

• 43:03Amanda Dobbins?

  I was watching and I was like, wow, she's very good, they have great chemistry, she's so beautiful. This can't be her singing, that's okay, you know, you can't have it all. And then like, she is, she's singing? That's her? She's unreal, what are we doing?

• 43:16Sean Fennessey?

  I said it when we did the episode, I, I was floored.

• 43:19Amanda Dobbins?

  Also, as you said that-

• 43:20Sean Fennessey?

  Dude, that's the hardest voice to nail. There's not a harder 20, I mean, I guess Maria Callas is the other person who would be the hardest 20th century woman to nail. And as we know, Angelina Jolie did not perform those songs.

• 43:32Amanda Dobbins?

  But also, you said that you went to a Q and A and she said that she didn't, she learned to sing? Which I just like, does that mean like, is that, is it a learnable skill? Like, can I be Adele if I, if I try hard enough?

• 43:46Speaker 02

  It's not too late for you, Amanda. And I support this new dream of yours and, um, I'll be front row, honestly.

• 43:53Amanda Dobbins?

  I think she was amazing, but what are we doing? I learned how to sing and that's what came out?

• 43:57Sean Fennessey?

  I agree. If Colin Farrell can win an award for wearing prosthetic makeup, then Monica Barbaro can win an award for singing.

• 44:05Speaker 02

  The Penguin is great and he's great in it.

• 44:07Sean Fennessey?

  I, I started watching it over the break and I've been enjoying it, I'll just say.

• 44:10Speaker 02

  It's really good and Christine Miliotti should have won in her category.

• 44:14Sean Fennessey?

  That's a fun part. You love her, Palm Springs.

• 44:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I'll never, I'll never watch that show, but I'm happy for all of you. And I thought his acceptance speech was very charming, as, as is the way with Colin Farrell, so.

• 44:24Sean Fennessey?

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• 46:23Sean Fennessey?

  Just to put a button on this conversation, I thought Timothy Chalamet was gonna win. So did I. And Adrian Brody won Best Actor in a Drama. Now, for whatever reason, I've been telling myself that this won't happen again. You know, Brody won. He was the youngest winner ever in that category. Everyone agrees he's a great actor. This is a big upswing moment for him in his career. And, you know, he is magnificent in that movie. There is no movie without Brody basically turning his soul over in the performance. So it's not like, it's a good win. It's a notable win, I guess. And this is something that does happen with acclaimed actors, is they have these waves in their careers. They win once when they're in their twenties. And then, you know, look at Denzel Washington. He wins for glory, and then many years later, he wins for Training Day. Or did he win? He did win for glory, right? Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

• 47:07Sean Fennessey?

  And it's not unusual, but I just thought... Maybe just because I was so gobsmacked by how solid A Complete Unknown was and how terrific Chalamet was, that the tides would turn on this.

• 47:18Amanda Dobbins?

  And the run that he has been on. There has been just like absolute coronation. He is our new Leo.

• 47:23Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 47:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Um, right, right down to sitting next to Kylie at the, uh, at the Golden Globes.

• 47:28Sean Fennessey?

  Right. So we, so we both predicted it. Were you thinking Chalamet was gonna win, Joe?

• 47:32Speaker 02

  I definitely thought Timmy was gonna win. And like, the thing, um, I, you know, I don't think it's, it's not sewn up that now Adrian Brody is gonna win. It's just like,

• 47:41Sean Fennessey?

  It's not.

• 47:41Speaker 02

  It was a big step forward for him and his campaign. It was a moment for him to create a narrative, which he did when he said, I never thought I'd get the chance to win something like this again. And then talked about, you know, the, you know, his family, the immigration angle and stuff like that. Like, that was his moment to create a narrative that Timmy has like, Timmy has the coronation narrative, but he doesn't have the comeback narrative, which has proven to be the most potent awards season narrative, which of course Demi Moore made a meal of in her acceptance speech, which was, I think, inarguably the speech of the night. But Zoe Saldana similarly gets up and creates her narrative, which is like, you

• 48:25Speaker 02

  know, I've, first of all, I've made, I've made you all millions and millions and millions of dollars. I've done all of your Pirates and Marvel movies and all of that. And this is something I care passionately about. And don't I deserve to be here? And so that feels so much more solid than it did before. But yeah, to go all the way back, sorry, to Best Actor. I think it's interesting now. And I wonder what Timmy can do. Cause Timmy is running. He's, he's running.

• 48:52Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 48:53Speaker 02

  And the interesting, like Amanda, rightly so, sort of, we were going back and forth while watching, was talking about like all the people who are crying over their Golden Globes in sort of an overwrought way. But like, when Zoe Saldana had her initial reaction to the win, to me in my head, I'm like, she knows she's gonna win an Oscar. Like the, they, they read out her name. She was. At the front of the pack, but not cemented. Kieran was cemented. She was sort of like almost there. They read out her name. She's like, I'm, this could happen. I could win an Oscar for this. And similarly, when Adrian Brody won, Timothy Chalamet gave us sort of like, "Welp," which is, um, "I have a lot more work to do," um, I guess, sort of reaction.

• 49:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I was gonna ask you, you rightly identified Adrian Brody, like, figured out his angle. He, he has, you know, if we're continuing the campaign narrative, he has a stump speech. Do you, I don't know if he nailed his audition tonight, though.

• 49:49Speaker 02

  No.

• 49:50Amanda Dobbins?

  This, this speech kind of took a while to get there. There was some Georgina Chapman in there where I was like, oh, I, okay, you know.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  He landed it, though. Yeah.

• 50:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 50:01Speaker 02

  He landed it. I, midway through, I texted a friend of mine who covers award stuff, and I was like, "Adrian's not nailing his audition."

• 50:08Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 50:08Speaker 02

  And then he finished the speech, and I felt like he really sort of brought it back. He did not nail it the way that Demi and Zoe did, but I think he made the case for himself.

• 50:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Demi, for me, was the strongest. And that, to me, this went from, "I don't know if she's gonna get a nomination," which in retrospect was stupid, to that, and that was my mistake.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  I don't think it was stupid.

• 50:29Amanda Dobbins?

  To, she could, she could win.

• 50:30Sean Fennessey?

  She could win.

• 50:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Tonight. Yeah. And, and that happened tonight.

• 50:33Sean Fennessey?

  That hadn't occurred to me until tonight either.

• 50:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Zoe Saldana was a little, I think, I agree that it kind of solidified tonight, but I was like, are we peeking too soon here? Uh, and that might just be because of the, the amount of tears. Um, as I texted you guys, like, we, we have to stop crying over Golden Globes. They're not Oscars, you know?

• 50:52Sean Fennessey?

  I don't even know who she's up against in this category. Ariana Grande is gonna unseat her? I don't think so.

• 50:57Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, I, I guess not.

• 50:59Sean Fennessey?

  You know, I, I, I think, you know, I said it to you earlier tonight. When I saw Emilio Perez, um, in the fall, my immediate reaction was like, "Not so sure about this movie. I'm a little iffy on it. It's a lot of movie." I think that's a phrase that I used. But no matter what, Zoe Saldana is amazing. I had no idea she could do this in this movie. That was my sincere reaction. And I think that's how a lot of people are watching the movie. They're seeing the movie and they're like, whoa. The choreography, the singing, the rapping, and then shifting into hard, dramatic performance in the middle of a movie like that, which is an often silly movie, is pretty impressive. I don't even think she needed to do, I think she could have given a completely banal speech and it really would not have mattered that much personally, because I don't think that the competition is as stiff in this category as it is for Demi Moore and as it is for Adrian Brody.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  I agree, there were just other little narratives bubbling, like the Isabella Rossellini narrative was like bubbling for a little while, the Ariana Grande narrative has been there, but like not, didn't ever really feel like solid.

• 51:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Did Zoe Saldana, was it Zoe Saldana who was like, Isabella, I stayed at your house once?

• 52:01Sean Fennessey?

  She did.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  I had dinner at your house.

• 52:02Amanda Dobbins?

  And it felt like I had made it?

• 52:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I had dinner at your house. That was good, that was good. It was still too much crying for me, we're all Jennifer Lopez, not winning her Golden Globe, you know, in the documentary.

• 52:13Sean Fennessey?

  Do you think before you die you'll win a Golden Globe?

• 52:14Speaker 02

  And in what category?

• 52:17Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't know, will you buy it for me?

• 52:18Sean Fennessey?

  I wouldn't be winning.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  Um, I think the closest competition she has in this category right now, actually, if the brutalist narrative gets, catches fire, is Felicity Jones. Because the brutalist sort of narrative could spread to, it's not going to touch the portraer.

• 52:37Amanda Dobbins?

  To the wife, but it's not.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  But like, yeah.

• 52:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, it's the wife, but it's not the normal wife, right?

• 52:42Speaker 02

  Well, let's talk after you see it.

• 52:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 52:45Speaker 02

  Let's have a conversation after you see it.

• 52:46Sean Fennessey?

  I suggested that possibility to Amanda on Friday on the show, and I think I was just talking up my brutalist fantasies a little bit, because I'm not sure if there's enough there, and obviously people have more issues with the second half of the film, which is really more on the Felicity performance side.

• 53:02Speaker 02

  True.

• 53:02Sean Fennessey?

  But it's not, it's not unreasonable. The Isabella Rossellini win would be quite silly, it doesn't mean that she doesn't give a good performance in Conclave, she does, she's just really not asked to do a whole lot.

• 53:12Speaker 02

  She's barely in it.

• 53:13Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 53:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:13Sean Fennessey?

  And...

• 53:14Speaker 02

  It would be a thanks for your career Oscar.

• 53:16Amanda Dobbins?

  She Googles extremely angrily and extremely memorably.

• 53:21Sean Fennessey?

  Yes.

• 53:21Speaker 02

  She stands and she glowers a bit.

• 53:25Amanda Dobbins?

  So the two Oscar memes that I need that I don't have yet are, number one, Isabella Rossellini pulling something up on a computer and leaving the room silently, which is like me.

• 53:35Sean Fennessey?

  Yep.

• 53:35Amanda Dobbins?

  During every, what I wanted to do during every podcast. And then, has no one made a complete unknown, like...

• 53:43Amanda Dobbins?

  Gazing face mashup of just like flashing at everyone's like really fast over and over again. Can I commission that?

• 53:50Sean Fennessey?

  I haven't seen it, but I'm sure you could get a fan cam going. Yeah. What Bob's tune should be played over that fan cam.

• 53:55Amanda Dobbins?

  Right, but then it's just like speed of light. All of them all at once, just looking at him like, oh, I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you.

• 54:02Sean Fennessey?

  It's a trope that is used also in Walk the Line, but exceedingly so in A Complete Unknown. I get it as a strategy.

• 54:09Amanda Dobbins?

  They all look very beautiful while they do it. So that's okay.

• 54:11Speaker 02

  The gift that I would like to commission, if we're, if we're just, you know, putting that out into the ether, and we do it sometime on House of Our, so I approve, is if anyone has Willem Dafoe grabbing the cat at the end of Nosferatu, I would like that.

• 54:26Sean Fennessey?

  That's a good one. Okay. Other notable awards. I mean, we mentioned that Demi Moore did win for actress in a musical or comedy, defeating Mikey Madison, who you and I both predicted, who has been the headlong frontrunner for months and months. Onora going home empty-handed. And Wicked going home sort of empty-handed as well, aside from its box office achievement victory and no acting performances being recognized either, is interesting. And I don't really know what to make of the best actress race, because on the drama side, we've got Fernanda Torres from I'm Still Here. And that is another win that feels,

• 55:09Sean Fennessey?

  on the one hand, not Globes-y at all. And then, on the other hand, we learned or we were reminded that Fernanda Montenegro, her mother, was nominated 25 years ago for another Walter Sallis movie, Central Station. So there is that classical kind of Golden Globes. We are a generation of generations of movie makers and artists, you know? And, you know, is Fernanda Torres a nepo baby? I'm not saying she is.

• 55:29Amanda Dobbins?

  I do also-

• 55:30Sean Fennessey?

  But I'm not saying she's not.

• 55:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. Yes, you know, Miss Golden Globe forever. I do also think that, I believe it was Rebecca Ford from Vanity Fair, who noted that- Someone from the Golden Globes Association told her that there are a lot of Brazilians on the voting committee. And I, as you pointed out to me, Sean, the Brazilian contingent, film contingent is very proud of "I'm Still Here."

• 55:55Sean Fennessey?

  They're very passionate about the film.

• 55:56Amanda Dobbins?

  I have not seen it.

• 55:57Speaker 02

  The Brazilian people, I will just say, in my like, let me paint it with a wide brush, and I'm so sorry to Brazil, but I'm about to compliment you, are the most passionate fans I've ever encountered in my life.

• 56:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  In any genre. When they care, they care vociferously. And so, yeah, the, I mean, the Fernanda Torres narrative has been zooming around, but it was more like, let's get her nominated, not let's get her a win. So I was shocked and excited. I thought we were gonna get like a classic Globes, like a Kidman win. That's what I thought it was gonna be.

• 56:35Sean Fennessey?

  That was my prediction as well. And neither Angelina Jolie nor Nicole Kidman winning in that category is a real like, these ain't your mom's Globes. These are different Globes. And that's a good thing. I mean, the Fernanda Torres film, I'm still here to-

• 56:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Then stop slandering moms.

• 56:49Sean Fennessey?

  What do you mean?

• 56:50Amanda Dobbins?

  These ain't your mom's Globes.

• 56:52Sean Fennessey?

  These ain't your granddad's Globes.

• 56:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, thank you.

• 56:54Sean Fennessey?

  Um.

• 56:55Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm here speaking for everyone, but also the moms.

• 56:59Sean Fennessey?

  I'm a mom guy. I don't know what you're talking about. I love moms.

• 57:02Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 57:03Sean Fennessey?

  The Fernanda Torres win is interesting. "I'm Still Here" didn't really work for me as well as it has worked for other people. I've said like, the four films that were anointed as the international films that everyone agrees on this year, which I think is like, "All We Imagine Is Light," "See the Sacred Fig," "Amelia Perez," "I'm Still Here." I just, I couldn't get in any of those four films. And this one too, which I felt like-

• 57:24Speaker 02

  Not American enough for you.

• 57:25Sean Fennessey?

  No, no. How dare you?

• 57:27Speaker 02

  Just kidding.

• 57:28Sean Fennessey?

  No, but I, it's fascinating that like, these awards races are just changing so much that someone like Fernanda Torres would- Not just win at the Globes, because I'm not sure that that means anything, but we should be like seriously considering her for a Best Actress win at the Academy Awards. For a film that, you know, very few people have seen this movie. I don't think it has gotten more than a New York LA release at this point, right Joanna?

• 57:51Speaker 02

  I mean, no, but I think there's still a chance that she might not even get nominated.

• 57:55Sean Fennessey?

  Like she- For sure.

• 57:57Speaker 02

  But like, Demi is definitely getting nominated out of tonight. Like, there's, I will be, I will do something.

• 58:05Amanda Dobbins?

  Once again, one is patro- Patient Zero-

• 58:09Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, so-

• 58:09Amanda Dobbins?

  Of your insubordination, you know, your, your surprise Best Actress nominees.

• 58:13Sean Fennessey?

  So then let's explore that, right? Because when, and for Best Musical or Comedy Female Actor Performance, I feel pretty good about Cynthia Revo, Carla Sofia Gascón, Mikey Madison, and Demi Moore being nominated. Do we think that those four will be nominated for Best Actress?

• 58:28Speaker 02

  Carla is the only question for me, but after tonight, maybe it's not a question at this point.

• 58:32Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, and she got to have the big closing moment of this show, which is notable. So then there's four, that leaves one spot from the other women who are nominated in motion picture drama. Unless there's another wild card out there that I'm not thinking of, but Pamela Anderson, which I think is unlikely. Angelina Jolie, who's been in the race hard the whole time. Nicole Kidman, who's, I would say has been right on the outside of the top five for the last couple of months. Tilda Swinton for The Room Next Door. Fernanda Torres and Kate Winslet. So if you're choosing one of those people, who is it?

• 59:05Speaker 02

  Um, if it's me, it's Fernanda Torres. But like, I could see it being Nicole, you know?

• 59:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I, I mean, I, I think Fernanda Torres is smart, again, from the international, you know, voting base. But then there's the part of me that's like, Kidman always finds a way.

• 59:24Speaker 02

  She does. She really does.

• 59:25Amanda Dobbins?

  They, she, she does, in, in so many ways.

• 59:28Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 59:28Amanda Dobbins?

  And-

• 59:29Sean Fennessey?

  Wait till you find the ways that she finds in Baby Girl.

• 59:31Amanda Dobbins?

  I, I'm, tomorrow.

• 59:33Sean Fennessey?

  She finds some new ways.

• 59:33Speaker 02

  Oh, you haven't seen Babe, oh my god, I cannot wait for the Amanda Baby Girl take.

• 59:37Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, I'm-

• 59:38Speaker 02

  I'm excited.

• 59:39Amanda Dobbins?

  I'm extremely excited.

• 59:40Sean Fennessey?

  Coming soon to this podcast.

• 59:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Harris Dickinson was not in attendance at the Golden Globes tonight, or at least he was not on camera.

• 59:45Speaker 02

  Um, the Demi, okay, so the Nicole Kidman thing, I, when I was sort of reading through people's predictions for the Globes, a lot of people are mentioning that Nicole Kidman had such a good TV year. And I was like, what do you mean? Ex-Pat was terrible, but then she had a Netflix hit and then she's also in Lioness. And so like, she is around on the TV front. And then I was thinking about,

• 1:00:09Speaker 02

  for my sins, for my friendship with Mallory Rubin, I have just in the last week, watched all of Landman, which like, I really wish I hadn't. But next week is the finale. And they're setting it up for Demi Moore to have like, a big finale moment in Landman, which is a massively popular show. And so in terms of like, her momentum, um, I was thinking about like, the Matthew McConaughey True Detective, Dallas Buyers Club year. Like, if you have a big TV year, it can really push, push you over the line, if you, if you need a little push.

• 1:00:44Sean Fennessey?

  I was just saying that on the playground this morning, with my daughter's parents, friend's parents, Landman was the talk of the space.

• 1:00:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:53Sean Fennessey?

  At the monkey bars, it was all about Landman. Everyone's watching Landman.

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  Terrible show. It's a really bad show, but it is, people love it.

• 1:00:59Sean Fennessey?

  You will have to speak to CR about that, because I've only seen one episode.

• 1:01:01Speaker 02

  I have. We have been texting about it. It's great.

• 1:01:03Sean Fennessey?

  I will say Ali Lard are innocent, no matter what.

• 1:01:09Amanda Dobbins?

  The only thing I want to say in response to that is that, Demi is having a big TV year, but Nicole Kidman's also having a big Netflix year, because in addition to the Netflix TV show, A Perfect Couple, please do not forget A Family Affair.

• 1:01:24Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 1:01:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Netflix film, in which Nicole Kidman.

• 1:01:26Speaker 02

  Cinematic masterpiece.

• 1:01:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Falls in love with Zac Efron.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Right? Yes. And she's, it's one of two times that she plays a bestselling book author.

• 1:01:36Sean Fennessey?

  Before we get too far into this episode, I'd like to mention my favorite win of the night, which is Sebastian Stan, winning for

• 1:01:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Fantastic.

• 1:01:43Sean Fennessey?

  Best male actor in a motion picture musical or comedy. Which is, uh, again, not something I would have ever predicted, and another symbol of a Somehow changed Golden Globes. This is a very, very small movie that not a lot of people have seen. Obviously, he was also nominated for his work in The Apprentice. And he's a great actor, and he's, of course, a very famous guy. He is Bucky Barnes, after all. But I thought he gave a good speech.

• 1:02:10Speaker 02

  That was a great speech.

• 1:02:12Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:12Sean Fennessey?

  I was, I'm now like, could this happen?

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:02:17Sean Fennessey?

  Could this nomination happen?

• 1:02:18Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't think so.

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  Because it's, it's definitely Adrian Brody, Timothy Chalamet, Coleman Domingo, and Ralph Fiennes, right?

• 1:02:27Sean Fennessey?

  Agreed.

• 1:02:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:02:28Speaker 02

  And so then it's either Daniel Craig or Sebastian Stan, right?

• 1:02:31Sean Fennessey?

  I think that's right.

• 1:02:33Speaker 02

  And so...

• 1:02:33Sean Fennessey?

  Daniel Craig is more famous and more beloved, but queer is not as beloved.

• 1:02:38Amanda Dobbins?

  Is there someone outside of the box beyond those two that we're not thinking of?

• 1:02:43Sean Fennessey?

  Well, I was wondering if there could have been a Jesse Eisenberg push, but he did not win tonight. That was something I was thinking about as I was making predictions.

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  And a real pain just didn't feel like, the Kieran win is the Kieran win, but a real pain did not feel like it was present otherwise at the ceremony, right?

• 1:02:58Sean Fennessey?

  No, not really. It didn't really have any other moments. And even the Kieran moment didn't feel like, I thought, actually, he spoke nicely of Jesse in the script and the movie, but another movie that not a ton of people have seen, that I guess probably is going on Hulu pretty soon, if it's not already there. Is it even, is it even there now? And by Hulu, I mean Disney Plus, which is where all Hulu content goes now. So...

• 1:03:23Amanda Dobbins?

  It's not also on Hulu?

• 1:03:25Sean Fennessey?

  Well, it is, but you know, they like, everything is on Disney Plus now. They're like, please watch Shogun on Disney Plus.

• 1:03:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, so I don't need to have my Hulu app anymore?

• 1:03:34Sean Fennessey?

  I don't, is there anything that is not of it, that isn't available on Disney Plus at this point?

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  I don't think so. I think all of Hulu is over on, I believe all of Hulu is...

• 1:03:41Amanda Dobbins?

  That's not true. I do use Disney Plus for Mary Poppins.

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  There's a, so there's Hugh Grant, which does not feel like a possibility as much as we love him, girdle or no girdle. There is...

• 1:03:54Sean Fennessey?

  You know, Bill, Bill Simmons was asking me on his show on Friday if Heretic could get into the awards race at all here. I was like, I don't think so. I think it's on the outside.

• 1:04:03Speaker 02

  I think if it had any, any chance, it would be screenplay. Um, but I don't think it does have a chance of screenplay.

• 1:04:08Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I don't think so either.

• 1:04:09Speaker 02

  Um, the main issue with Daniel Craig versus Sebastian Stan, and I was talking to our, our friend, uh, friend of the show Kitty Rich about this. So I was like, you don't, she's, she's like, I don't think Sebastian Stan's getting nominated. And I was like, tell me why? He just gave this wonderful speech. We love Sebastian Stan. He's a Marvel star and he's tremendous in these two films. And she's like, he's competing against himself. So Daniel only has to represent queer, but Sebastian Stan might split the votes on his own two performances.

• 1:04:36Sean Fennessey?

  Yep. Didn't stop Steven Soderbergh from being nominated for Traffic and Erin Brockovich.

• 1:04:42Speaker 02

  Sure didn't, but.

• 1:04:43Sean Fennessey?

  You know, and you know what happened there? Ang Lee came through, right? The Golden Globes and just snatched it away, split the vote.

• 1:04:50Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:04:50Sean Fennessey?

  Tough one. Hate when that happens.

• 1:04:53Speaker 02

  But if we get Oscar nominee Sebastian Stan, I will be thrilled.

• 1:04:57Amanda Dobbins?

  That'd be very exciting. Daniel Craig's been working very hard and wearing a lot of loyve. And so I like, I really, I really enjoyed press tour Daniel Craig, so I'll miss that. But I'm, I'm sure he'll keep getting hired.

• 1:05:13Sean Fennessey?

  Let's quickly talk about best screenplay.

• 1:05:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay, this was weird.

• 1:05:17Sean Fennessey?

  This was Conclave's sole victory. This is the only movie I believe that is an adaptation. Is that right? I guess Emilio Perez was an opera.

• 1:05:27Speaker 02

  It was an opera, yeah.

• 1:05:29Sean Fennessey?

  Um, I haven't read the novel. Your mother's read the novel. Maybe we should call her. Um, I don't know how much of a, it sounds like the, it's very similar structurally to the novel, from what I understand.

• 1:05:42Speaker 02

  Are you asking a question like how much, how much should we credit this adaptation?

• 1:05:46Sean Fennessey?

  I don't, I guess I just don't know. It's, it's unusual when it sticks out like this alongside a bunch of original stories. Anora, the brutalist, a real pain in the substance, which are all originals, which is something that I tend to over emphasize on the show. And they don't split adapted screenplay and original screenplay at the Golden Globes. Why? I have no idea. The Globes are doing whatever the fuck they want to do. Why are there only six nominees for supporting actor and actress and 12 lead actor? I have no, why does, why is this the rules? I don't know. They're doing whatever they want to do. The Conclave win. I thought could have meant one of two things. When it won screenplay, I was like, oh, interesting. Well, sometimes that's what happens. They'll match a screenplay win with a drama win. You know, or you'll have screenplay and then you'll have best actor and then you'll have drama. Like, you see a lot of tic-tac-toe formations.

• 1:06:30Sean Fennessey?

  Historically, it turned out that the tic-tac-toe formation in this case was actor, director, and best picture for the brutalist. So I'm not really sure where Conclave stands. I will say I read a Megyn Kelly tweet, which was very scornful of the film Conclave. And when I read that tweet, I thought to myself, that smells like a best picture winner. Someone who, a film that the far right hates, it will become a cause celebre in an awards race. We've seen this story before. But now, and, you know, the Globes may not be impactful in that respect. But, um, just one win felt a little scant to me.

• 1:07:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know we keep saying, um, no, I don't think, I think Conclave is, is dropped in its, its chances. But in terms of its screenplay chances, or this is a screenplay win, I was reminded that Aaron, I know that we're talking about this as new Globes, not old Globes, not your grandfather's Globes, but, um, Aaron Sorkin has won three Golden Globes for film screenplay. And this was like such a Sorkiny type of story that it seems like sometimes it reminds me of, um, when the, the movie, sometimes the movies that get nominated for sound or win for sound are the movies with like the most sound or the movies with the most editing.

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  So like, is it the movie with the most talking that, uh, you know, is going to win a screenplay award sometimes, occasionally?

• 1:07:55Amanda Dobbins?

  If, if it were old Globes, I would have expected Conclave to be kind of the, has the feel of prestige and fan, and, you know, is fancy and Renaissance paintings and, you know, celebrated actors, but is kind of a trashy airport book dressed up with hats. Great hats. Should we, we should, should we wear hats for the, uh?

• 1:08:20Sean Fennessey?

  The cardinal hats?

• 1:08:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:22Sean Fennessey?

  I wanted Tedesco's vape, that's what I said.

• 1:08:24Speaker 02

  You in a tux.

• 1:08:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:08:26Speaker 02

  Sean in a gown.

• 1:08:28Amanda Dobbins?

  And Sean as Tedesco, yeah.

• 1:08:30Speaker 02

  And then cardinal hats.

• 1:08:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:08:32Sean Fennessey?

  This is a war.

• 1:08:36Sean Fennessey?

  I was so happy when I saw that they used that scene to show Peter Strawn's writing in the film Conclave. I love that scene. I wish Stucci could have had like five more scenes like that in that movie. Yeah, I don't know what to make of where Conclave stands. I guess it does feel like it's falling a little bit, but it's also like, it's impossible to know how indicative the Globes are in any given year because last year they were wildly indicative. The year before that, a little bit less so. The year before that, Fabelman's won drama and not Everything Everywhere All at Once won comedy. I can't even remember what it was, but they didn't predict that race at all. And so both of those administrations were the new Globes. So I don't, it's a little bit hard to say. I think we'll, obviously

• 1:09:16Sean Fennessey?

  we'll learn a lot more as we get SAG, PGA, DGA, and then BAFTA's winnows down its list.

• 1:09:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Can I ask you how you feel about Wicked right now? Should, should we, is, you know, is the?

• 1:09:28Sean Fennessey?

  I don't think a lot has changed. It's a good question.

• 1:09:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Is the Good Witch here in the room with us?

• 1:09:32Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Galinda, show yourself.

• 1:09:36Speaker 02

  Amanda wants another chance to unload on Wicked.

• 1:09:39Amanda Dobbins?

  No, I just, I think old Globes would have been like, well, that's over because...

• 1:09:46Sean Fennessey?

  Now, but now this is a critics group now. That's what this is. And Wicked is not a critics movie. You know, it's a populist film. And the thing that is going for, that is good for Wicked, I think, is that at the Academy Awards, there are a lot of other categories where Wicked will be recognized. On the flip side, yeah, costume, makeup and hairstyling, production design, like all that, it's gonna be on down the line. It's probably gonna get six or seven, maybe even nine nominations. But the film that won cinematic box office achievement last year was?

• 1:10:16Speaker 02

  Barbie.

• 1:10:16Sean Fennessey?

  Barbie. And it, this could very well be Barbie. In fact, it probably is this year's.

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  And it should be. That's where Wicked should be.

• 1:10:26Sean Fennessey?

  Barbie is better than Wicked, Joanna.

• 1:10:27Speaker 02

  Barbie is way better than Wicked. I love Barbie. You know that.

• 1:10:31Amanda Dobbins?

  Let it, you know, say it again.

• 1:10:33Sean Fennessey?

  Barbie is better than Wicked. It's very, very easy for me to say. No problem there.

• 1:10:37Speaker 02

  It's not, it's not hard for me to say either. I didn't like love, love, love Wicked. I liked it better than I thought I would, is how I feel about Wicked. But, um...

• 1:10:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Did you know the animals sing?

• 1:10:47Speaker 02

  I did, I did. Did that, was that, is that what broke you? That's so early to break you in the film when

• 1:10:54Amanda Dobbins?

  I didn't know it was coming. Yeah. And I will also say that was a goat, right? I thought the goat was Rupert Everett. And then when I found out it was Peter Dinklage instead, I was, I thought, I think it would have been cooler with Rupert Everett.

• 1:11:06Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:11:07Speaker 02

  What a compliment for Peter Dinklage's terrible English accent that you thought it was an actual Englishman.

• 1:11:12Sean Fennessey?

  It was ridiculous that they just had him teary and all over again. That was ridiculous.

• 1:11:16Amanda Dobbins?

  It was, it was someone being a goat, you know? I didn't think Rupert Everett was putting his whole heart in it.

• 1:11:21Speaker 02

  That's fair. Really phoning it in for the goat role in Wicked, yeah.

• 1:11:26Sean Fennessey?

  I'd just like to cite two very funny joke moments from the monologue that I enjoyed. The first was the Selena Gomez Benny Blanco's genie joke, which was mean but great. And the second was the Adam Sandler shadow me, which I just, that, that's a, Nikki Glaser is a woman or the woman who, the person who wrote that joke is a person who understands Adam Sandler. And Adam Sandler is a person who understands the moment and knows how to come through.

• 1:11:55Speaker 02

  The fact that Sandler like came in on the bit is what made the bit to me.

• 1:11:59Sean Fennessey?

  Absolutely.

• 1:12:00Speaker 02

  It was like slightly floundering and then he came in and I was like, this is the best. This is wonderful.

• 1:12:05Sean Fennessey?

  There's no one better.

• 1:12:06Amanda Dobbins?

  I thought it was a good monologue. Again, this is my introduction Nikki Glaser. Good job, very successful comedian Nikki Glaser.

• 1:12:12Sean Fennessey?

  Will you explore her works?

• 1:12:13Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't know. I mean, this is good, right? Like we have something.

• 1:12:16Sean Fennessey?

  You're settled?

• 1:12:16Amanda Dobbins?

  We have something nice. We have fond memories, you know?

• 1:12:19Sean Fennessey?

  Heard it here first.

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  Why ruin a good thing? Yeah. We had one great date, why have another?

• 1:12:27Amanda Dobbins?

  You know, we'll hold on to the memories. But it was, it was, it was never fully mean. It was a little sharp, but never mean. Most of the targets were like industry streaming service, that sort of things as opposed to people. And that, and the people with the exception of a couple, you know, Diddy jokes that I don't know if we needed them.

• 1:12:46Sean Fennessey?

  A little soon.

• 1:12:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, or just like, was it that funny? I don't know. Even the glancing ones were amusing, like whatever the Ben Affleck joke was about thing, you know.

• 1:12:57Speaker 02

  Things he called out in bed.

• 1:12:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, yeah, it was, that was funny, you know, and Ben Affleck can handle that.

• 1:13:01Sean Fennessey?

  He can take it.

• 1:13:02Speaker 02

  Um, I need to call out a very important cultural moment, which is when Vin Diesel acknowledged The Rock and The Rock just shot daggers back at Vin Diesel.

• 1:13:13Sean Fennessey?

  This was gonna be my closing discussion point. Thank you for, you perfect timing, Joanna.

• 1:13:18Amanda Dobbins?

  No, if you want it to be closed, it's not closing. Joanna and I have one more moment.

• 1:13:22Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, why don't we do Dwayne and then we'll do Andrew?

• 1:13:24Speaker 02

  Okay. Drama and then comedy, is that what you're saying?

• 1:13:30Sean Fennessey?

  Vin Diesel presenting the cinematic box office achievement, if it is a knowing gesture to his works, and then him coming forth and saying, I'd just like to point out that I am the man who has worked with Steven Spielberg and Sidney Lumet and many other great filmmakers, and while dunking on Dwayne Johnson, sitting in the crowd, who I guess is there to promote Red One, I gotta tip my cap.

• 1:13:52Speaker 02

  Moana Two, Moana Two.

• 1:13:54Sean Fennessey?

  But that movie's coming out in like 11 months. We're gonna get another Dwayne, we're getting The Smashing Machine before we're getting Moana Two, right?

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  Moana Two is out.

• 1:14:02Sean Fennessey?

  Oh, I'm thinking of the live action Moana. You're right, Moana Two, you're right, Moana Two. I guess that's true. I don't, I guess.

• 1:14:09Amanda Dobbins?

  It's not playing in your house?

• 1:14:11Sean Fennessey?

  You know, she hasn't called for a viewing of the film at home.

• 1:14:15Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:14:15Sean Fennessey?

  Because we do have a screener.

• 1:14:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:14:17Speaker 02

  She calls for them? Does she like call you?

• 1:14:19Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, she rings the bell. She says, master, come down. Please, turn on. Yeah, that is how it feels sometimes.

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  Okay. Okay, sorry, you were talking about.

• 1:14:30Sean Fennessey?

  I mean, Vin dunked on Dwayne Johnson, and like Vin Diesel just sucks. Like, he's terrible, and he makes bad movies. The Fast franchise is horrible. I hate it.

• 1:14:39Amanda Dobbins?

  Also, that introduction, that introduction alone was like 45 minutes.

• 1:14:43Sean Fennessey?

  It felt that way. It went on and on and on.

• 1:14:46Amanda Dobbins?

  He fell asleep on stage twice.

• 1:14:47Sean Fennessey?

  He was incredibly self-important, and yet, he was kind of victorious in that moment.

• 1:14:52Speaker 02

  In that, in that one moment. I think he, he won briefly. Um, did? You know, one of my favorite award season thing is that they bring people out to like promo their new thing. Were there any upcoming projects that you were like a little bit more interested in? Because you saw the stars of it present an award tonight?

• 1:15:12Sean Fennessey?

  You were like tingling when you saw, heard about the gorge and I explained the premise of the gorge. You were like, good God, this is like the last time I saw Michael Keaton. I feel something extraordinary.

• 1:15:22Amanda Dobbins?

  I was, I was honestly looking at Miles Teller and was wondering like whether he got dressed, like what his Sunday was like and where he watched the Eagles game and how he fit that into like his prep.

• 1:15:37Sean Fennessey?

  He definitely had Vikings, Vikings Lions on his iPhone, like in between presentation. Yeah, no question.

• 1:15:43Speaker 02

  Go Birds. Hi, Miles.

• 1:15:46Sean Fennessey?

  That's right. Yeah. Big Eagles guy. Yeah. I don't think there was a single thing that was being promoted that I.

• 1:15:52Speaker 02

  I'll go back to Seth Rogen and Catherine O'Hara and say the studio on Apple TV.

• 1:15:57Sean Fennessey?

  I am, I am excited for that show for sure. And that, you know, that whole bit. Seth and Catherine O'Hara are favorites of mine, but it felt like they just wrote it together instead of the Golden Globes writers.

• 1:16:08Speaker 02

  100% they wrote that.

• 1:16:09Sean Fennessey?

  This is Seth's comic voice coming through in this bit.

• 1:16:14Sean Fennessey?

  So yeah, I'm looking forward. That's a good point. I'm looking forward to that show.

• 1:16:16Speaker 02

  There's a few moments of that, like Nate Bargatze, like definitely wrote his bit and they gave him a stand up mic to come out, you know, like a, you know, they let him feel comfortable in his own. So there are like a few moments where it was clear that the people actually wrote the bit. Not you, Kate Hudson and Mindy Kaling, but, but Seth Rogen and Catherine O'Hara just like really.

• 1:16:34Amanda Dobbins?

  I gotta tell you, Kate Hudson delivered her half with gusto.

• 1:16:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, but Mindy, I don't understand.

• 1:16:42Speaker 02

  Should we talk about Andrew Garfield?

• 1:16:44Sean Fennessey?

  So I actually was in the bathroom.

• 1:16:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, Sean was in the bathroom. So you missed this. He missed it. Can we?

• 1:16:49Speaker 02

  Did you show him the video I sent you?

• 1:16:51Sean Fennessey?

  I've, I've seen it many times now.

• 1:16:53Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. So you've watched it. So. So I, let's start with the glasses, with the reading glasses.

• 1:16:59Speaker 02

  A very good place to start.

• 1:17:00Sean Fennessey?

  Put some context around what you're talking about. You're making it sound like it's a recitation of the Bible or something. It's like an actor got on stage at an award show.

• 1:17:07Amanda Dobbins?

  What was he presenting?

• 1:17:09Speaker 02

  Um, I couldn't tell you.

• 1:17:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:11Speaker 02

  I don't know, it was Demi. It was Demi because he was in the background of Demi's speech. That's part of the whole thing.

• 1:17:16Amanda Dobbins?

  Right. So he gets out there and turns to the very close camera and finds his light, as he does, and pulls out the, the, the frames. I, I don't have an ID on the frames, but you know, I'm sure.

• 1:17:31Sean Fennessey?

  All of her people's reading glasses.

• 1:17:33Speaker 02

  Horn-rimmed, at the very least, right?

• 1:17:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yes.

• 1:17:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:17:35Amanda Dobbins?

  And, and looks, he doesn't, he's not looking directly in camera, but he knows he has his angle to put on his reading glasses while he is fiddling with the button of his shirt to make sure it's properly undone, to show half of his chest and his pendant, which I have been reliably informed is a David Yurman pendant, in case anyone was, was curious.

• 1:18:01Speaker 02

  The green pendant that matches the Emerald Green. And by the way, Emerald Green, uh, really the color of the night. A lot of green suits on the guys, some great green gowns. That's just my Vanity Fair coming through.

• 1:18:12Sean Fennessey?

  A glowing emerald around Rachel Brosnahan's, that I noted with interest.

• 1:18:16Speaker 02

  I was going to give you a moment to talk about Rachel Brosnahan if you wanted to. She looked wonderful.

• 1:18:20Sean Fennessey?

  I made a, a, a

• 1:18:22Speaker 02

  A noise?

• 1:18:23Sean Fennessey?

  Old man comment while, while I was like, hello, Lois.

• 1:18:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:27Sean Fennessey?

  How are thee? Um, yeah, she looked amazing. I can't wait. Can't wait for Superman.

• 1:18:31Speaker 02

  So you understand how we feel. You understand how we feel, how you felt about Rachel Brosnahan?

• 1:18:35Sean Fennessey?

  But I also feel that way about Andrew Garfield. Like, I also will make out with Andrew Garfield. I'm on the record about that.

• 1:18:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Let me be very clear that part of, part of my reaction is like, the Andrew Garfield experience these last three months, which I was on the sidelines for, uh, I just, I, the whole We Live in Time press tour of the horse, the chicken date.

• 1:18:56Sean Fennessey?

  Elmo? Oh, my god.

• 1:18:57Amanda Dobbins?

  The Elmo, I mean, the, the Elmo is when I sent you, you know?

• 1:19:00Sean Fennessey?

  Incredible.

• 1:19:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, the, the modern love, the crying, like, my guy is out here and it has really been something to behold. And the level of Self-knowledge and intention with which he angled that pendant right into the camera and then put those reading glasses on, like, my guy's having a great time at the parties tonight.

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  When you, I want to shout out, uh, very on-brand for Big Pick, I think. His stylist is, uh, Warren Alfie Baker, who is also Glenn Powell's stylist. And like, he is maybe my favorite, like, I actually don't follow a lot of stylists, but like, the work that he has done with Andrew Garfield and Glenn Powell has been extraordinary. Um, and you can kind of tell his work when he works with other people, but, um, when, when you re-watch Demi Moore's speech, which you should, because it's a masterclass in, in Golden Globe speachery, please watch Andrew Garfield realize when the camera is on him and watch him adjust his stance and sort of be aware that he is in the background of a shot.

• 1:20:02Amanda Dobbins?

  He's an actor, okay?

• 1:20:03Speaker 02

  He knows, he knows where his light is and he finds it, and we love that for him.

• 1:20:06Amanda Dobbins?

  Good for him.

• 1:20:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:07Sean Fennessey?

  I'm very happy for him. He was up for no awards whatsoever.

• 1:20:10Speaker 02

  And yet he won, anyway, you know?

• 1:20:13Sean Fennessey?

  And yet he won. He made a very memorable appearance.

• 1:20:15Speaker 02

  A related, important question I need to ask Amanda.

• 1:20:18Amanda Dobbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:19Speaker 02

  Emma Stone's hair.

• 1:20:21Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:22Amanda Dobbins?

  I mean, she looks beautiful, you know? If anyone was made to do the, you know, the, the pixie.

• 1:20:28Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, the Gene Seberg, yeah.

• 1:20:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Exactly. She looks fantastic. I loved the dress, like, the styling and everything that went with it, I thought, and the color. So, very pro.

• 1:20:37Sean Fennessey?

  Reportedly, because her head is shaved in the film Begonia.

• 1:20:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:20:42Sean Fennessey?

  The new Lanthimos movie coming out next year.

• 1:20:44Amanda Dobbins?

  Is she gonna make movies with anyone besides him?

• 1:20:46Sean Fennessey?

  No.

• 1:20:47Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:20:48Sean Fennessey?

  No, I spoke to her. She said I'm gonna do 48 more Lanthimos films. They're all, and they're all sequels to Kinds of Kindness.

• 1:20:54Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:20:55Sean Fennessey?

  They're just gonna tell that story for another 50 or so years.

• 1:20:58Amanda Dobbins?

  Did not see Jesse Clemons once on the screen. I saw-

• 1:21:00Sean Fennessey?

  Was he there?

• 1:21:01Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, Kirsten Dunst posted a photo of her getting ready and her hair being done, so-

• 1:21:06Sean Fennessey?

  I hope he's having a tall whiskey right now.

• 1:21:08Speaker 02

  I didn't see him on the screen, but I saw him on the red carpet.

• 1:21:11Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:21:11Speaker 02

  And he looked nice in a tux, but suitably rumpled as he always does.

• 1:21:16Sean Fennessey?

  Did I miss all the awards for Civil War?

• 1:21:18Amanda Dobbins?

  [laughing]

• 1:21:19Sean Fennessey?

  Was I in the bathroom for this?

• 1:21:20Speaker 02

  You were in the bathroom, yeah.

• 1:21:21Sean Fennessey?

  Shoot. It's a shame.

• 1:21:23Speaker 02

  Too bad.

• 1:21:25Sean Fennessey?

  Any closing thoughts? Will you return to the Golden Globes again next year?

• 1:21:29Amanda Dobbins?

  If they don't have me, yeah. It's my year. Listen, I'm available to be a seat filler.

• 1:21:35Sean Fennessey?

  You know what's gonna be really painful?

• 1:21:36Amanda Dobbins?

  What?

• 1:21:37Sean Fennessey?

  When you defeat Jennifer Lopez at the Golden Globes? That will be your ultimate triumph.

• 1:21:41Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:21:42Amanda Dobbins?

  Did you see Soderbergh on his annual culture list? He watched both Jennifer Lopez's musical length, music video, whatever.

• 1:21:55Sean Fennessey?

  Feature films.

• 1:21:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:21:56Sean Fennessey?

  On Amazon.

• 1:21:57Amanda Dobbins?

  It was 40 minutes long.

• 1:21:58Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:58Amanda Dobbins?

  And then he watched the documentary. He is a completist.

• 1:22:02Sean Fennessey?

  Have you seen those, Joanna?

• 1:22:04Speaker 02

  I've not had the pleasure.

• 1:22:05Sean Fennessey?

  Okay.

• 1:22:06Speaker 02

  Would you recommend?

• 1:22:07Amanda Dobbins?

  You really need to watch the documentary.

• 1:22:09Speaker 02

  You think so?

• 1:22:10Sean Fennessey?

  I would say you don't.

• 1:22:11Amanda Dobbins?

  You actually, listen, I mean, there is a lot more access than I would have given. Especially where I Ben Affleck. But he's, he's in there yelling about cameras, so it's, it's quite something. And Steven Soderbergh has seen it. If it's good enough for Steven Soderbergh, is it not good enough for you?

• 1:22:30Speaker 02

  Can't we all agree that that's what the Globes should be?

• 1:22:33Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:33Speaker 02

  What you're describing of the Jennifer Lopez documentary is what the Globes should be. The Globes were famously like a drunken, like, free for all, where the booze was not flowing the way that it needed to be. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you.

• 1:22:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, it was a little staid. And then I, and also, I don't have any idea where the Oscar race is gonna go.

• 1:22:52Sean Fennessey?

  Do you think Fernando Torres is shitfaced right now?

• 1:22:59Sean Fennessey?

  Somewhere, clutching a globe.

• 1:23:01Speaker 02

  That's the social clip, guys. Please clip Sean saying, "Do you think Fernando Torres is shitfaced right now?"

• 1:23:07Sean Fennessey?

  Joe, anything else? I mean, do you think this is actually gonna impact the Oscars? I guess that's the thing that we're gonna end up talking about. You do.

• 1:23:14Speaker 02

  I think you should be feeling really good right now, Sean, because I think The Brutalist is in a really good position.

• 1:23:21Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm.

• 1:23:22Amanda Dobbins?

  Oh, congratulations.

• 1:23:23Sean Fennessey?

  I don't know how to feel about that.

• 1:23:24Amanda Dobbins?

  Your takeaway isn't though that Emilio Perez is just is is coming for everything that isn't Demi Moore's Oscar?

• 1:23:32Speaker 02

  Power positive thinking, I'm gonna say, uh, I would rather The Brutalist over Emilio Perez, so, yeah.

• 1:23:40Sean Fennessey?

  Hmm, so interesting, I, you know, The Brutalist does kinda sorta fit the mold of what I think the Academy is now.

• 1:23:48Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:23:49Sean Fennessey?

  Kinda sorta, not entirely, cuz it's obviously gesturing at an old style of Hollywood film, but it's also gesturing at a

• 1:23:56Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, but we all, we all like The Godfather, you know?

• 1:23:59Sean Fennessey?

  I know, it's just, it's, I think it's a little bit of a red herring about what the movie is. I think the movie is way more a European version, or like a George Stevens movie from the 50s than it is a Coppola movie.

• 1:24:10Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:24:11Sean Fennessey?

  But I could be wrong, people would disagree, you know?

• 1:24:14Speaker 02

  I think Brady winning director feels very big to me, anyway.

• 1:24:21Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah, I, I, I thought he did very well, and as someone who is a big fan of that movie, and I really liked talking to him when he was on the show, I had the same concern that you did, where I was like, ooh, don't, don't be too pretentious, don't be too,

• 1:24:34Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:24:34Sean Fennessey?

  you know, uh, eyes agog with your own vision, you know, and I think actually reading his speech weirdly helped a lot.

• 1:24:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, I was nervous, again, you gotta, you gotta print these things out, everyone, you know, not on the phone, but I, like, I, I completely agree.

• 1:24:47Speaker 02

  Well, I, I, no, no, I'm not gonna disagree with you, I'm gonna say Jacques Hattier getting out three pages of the paperclip made me so scared, but he only read the top page, but he was going for so long and he still had many more pages paperclip together, and I was like, what are we gonna do?

• 1:25:02Sean Fennessey?

  It was in 72 font, though, so it was okay.

• 1:25:04Speaker 02

  I was really worried. Um, yeah, who, who would you have said was the best director frontrunner before tonight in the Oscar race? Sean Baker?

• 1:25:14Sean Fennessey?

  I think he and Sean Baker have been one and two the whole time, and both of them are the vision peak guys.

• 1:25:21Speaker 02

  I think with Mikey no longer being necessarily the, like, solid frontrunner,

• 1:25:27Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:25:27Speaker 02

  like, this is a, this was a, this is a real falter for an aura and a real leap forward for The Brutalist, is what I would say, is my takeaway.

• 1:25:34Sean Fennessey?

  It was. I still think Mikey's gonna win. I still do.

• 1:25:38Speaker 02

  I think it depends how-

• 1:25:38Sean Fennessey?

  I think this is a very different group.

• 1:25:40Speaker 02

  I think it depends how Demi plays.

• 1:25:42Amanda Dobbins?

  The next few weeks.

• 1:25:43Speaker 02

  The next few weeks.

• 1:25:44Sean Fennessey?

  The Demi win will feel like the Jamie Lee Curtis win in many ways. And then we'll look back, and I think the Demi performance is superior to the Jamie Lee Curtis performance in everything Everella wants, but has a similar kind of framework. Like, this person is a kind of a genre legend and a Hollywood legend.

• 1:26:03Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:26:03Speaker 02

  That was like the.

• 1:26:04Sean Fennessey?

  And we're acknowledging their body of work.

• 1:26:05Speaker 02

  The Michelle, it was all of this.

• 1:26:07Sean Fennessey?

  Michelle Yeoh in, same thing.

• 1:26:08Amanda Dobbins?

  But like in the movie that is also doing that, so to me, at least, it's like the, the project is the, the idea at the same time. So if she, if she wins the Oscar for The Substance about the, like, okay.

• 1:26:22Sean Fennessey?

  Right.

• 1:26:22Amanda Dobbins?

  It's, it adds up.

• 1:26:25Sean Fennessey?

  What was your favorite win?

• 1:26:26Amanda Dobbins?

  Um, I, as I said, I really enjoyed Colin Farrell, but that was for a TV show I will never watch, so.

• 1:26:32Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah. Tanks.

• 1:26:34Amanda Dobbins?

  And then, and the, and craft services Carolina, that was lovely. That was really.

• 1:26:39Speaker 02

  And the coconut water.

• 1:26:40Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:41Sean Fennessey?

  He's shouting out Andrew Scott in the movie we made 25, 30 years ago. You can't find on Betamax.

• 1:26:45Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:46Sean Fennessey?

  Incredible moment.

• 1:26:46Amanda Dobbins?

  Very charming.

• 1:26:47Sean Fennessey?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:47Amanda Dobbins?

  That's my answer.

• 1:26:47Sean Fennessey?

  All my Irish homies, love those guys. Joe, favorite win?

• 1:26:51Speaker 02

  Can I give you a TV win on this film podcast?

• 1:26:53Sean Fennessey?

  Of course, please do.

• 1:26:54Speaker 02

  Tada Nobu Asano, Tada Nobu Asano for Shogun.

• 1:26:58Sean Fennessey?

  His speech was awesome.

• 1:26:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:00Sean Fennessey?

  It was very short, and I think he said, this is such a great gift, or such a great present, and it was like, peace out.

• 1:27:07Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:08Sean Fennessey?

  And I think that's how most speeches should be.

• 1:27:10Speaker 02

  And his, his translator came out with him, but he didn't use her, and he just like soldiered through, and he was, uh, snubbed for the Emmy when he should have won. So this is like a real, Shogun won all, you know, all the same things that they won at the Emmys, plus Tada Nobu, and this is like, I loved him. He was wonderful, so, my favorite.

• 1:27:29Sean Fennessey?

  Great pick.

• 1:27:30Amanda Dobbins?

  What was your favorite?

• 1:27:30Speaker 02

  How about you, Sean?

• 1:27:31Sean Fennessey?

  Sebastian Sand is my favorite. I think that was the most unexpected and cool, and I thought he did very well, and it would be exciting to see him get recognized, because he is one of the only. MCU IP actors who actually uses his powers for good and makes interesting, challenging films, and I appreciate that.

• 1:27:50Speaker 02

  I mean, Zoe Saldana, let's give her some credit and then also.

• 1:27:54Sean Fennessey?

  She absolutely did the same thing. I totally agree.

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  And did you see that we got like fact checked on our Chris Evans take, Sean?

• 1:28:01Sean Fennessey?

  What was the take?

• 1:28:02Speaker 02

  That his two, like his upcoming products, he's doing a Celine song film and then I forget what the other one is, but he's got like a couple of really good upcoming projects.

• 1:28:10Sean Fennessey?

  He's the star of Materialists, just coming out later this year alongside Dakota Johnson and who's the third? It's a film about a matchmaker.

• 1:28:19Speaker 02

  Pedro Pascal, right?

• 1:28:20Sean Fennessey?

  Pedro Pascal, inspired by Celine's song Stint as a matchmaker, a professional matchmaker. That'll be an interesting movie. You're right, though. Chris Evans does have two cool movies coming out.

• 1:28:29Amanda Dobbins?

  You guys were, you were a little.

• 1:28:31Speaker 02

  We were tough. We were tough on Chris.

• 1:28:33Sean Fennessey?

  Chris Evans is your guy? Since when? Doing this show for years. What are your favorite Chris Evans performances?

• 1:28:41Amanda Dobbins?

  Well, I like Captain America more than the other one. Sure.

• 1:28:44Speaker 02

  She loves a Boston guy. Amanda loves a Boston guy.

• 1:28:47Amanda Dobbins?

  I don't know. I was, I was listening to her and I was like, well, this is kind of mean, you know?

• 1:28:51Speaker 02

  But you didn't have to do Red One.

• 1:28:53Sean Fennessey?

  Did you spend any time watching Red One?

• 1:28:53Speaker 02

  You didn't watch Red One.

• 1:28:54Amanda Dobbins?

  I watched Ghosted. No, my husband did. I opted out of that experience.

• 1:28:58Speaker 02

  If you had, you would have known.

• 1:29:00Amanda Dobbins?

  Sure.

• 1:29:01Sean Fennessey?

  We were entirely justified in our discussion.

• 1:29:03Speaker 02

  We were.

• 1:29:04Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:29:04Sean Fennessey?

  But if Materialist is great, I'll be back on the train. The whole point of that conversation was this guy was in Knives Out and Snowpiercer and Sunshine. He's, he knows what is good.

• 1:29:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Right.

• 1:29:13Sean Fennessey?

  Make good movies. That's all, that's all I want.

• 1:29:15Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay.

• 1:29:16Sean Fennessey?

  I don't want to end this note on dissing Chris Evans again. Yeah, he's your guy. You can call him. Pretty, I would say a mixed award show in terms of the quality of this telecast. I liked the host. I thought she would do well. She did do well. Just a very high minded and mostly very good set of awards.

• 1:29:35Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:35Speaker 02

  This is just really funny. I really thought you were going to come on here and like gloat, Sean, because I really think.

• 1:29:40Sean Fennessey?

  That's not what it's about. I'm not trying to exclude anyone. I think that that's a great film and people should try to like meet it where it wants to be met. Like I'm, I'm really, I have no interest in like lording any of this over anybody because nobody's even seen this movie yet. And when they see it and they understand that it's not me, a sad podcaster, like trying to do a bit, it's actually a way more sincere and sophisticated story about pain. Then they'll understand like why it's winning awards like this. But then again, Amelia Perez won too, so who the fuck knows?

• 1:30:13Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah, who knows?

• 1:30:15Sean Fennessey?

  Okay, well, we'll, we'll pick up this conversation again. You're not done. You were trying to insinuate somehow that you're like not coming back for the rest of award season, but you're definitely coming back and we'll find out when the right times are. You definitely have to keep helping us power rank best picture nominees. You've taken us this far, Joanna, okay?

• 1:30:28Amanda Dobbins?

  It sounds like a joy to me.

• 1:30:29Sean Fennessey?

  Okay. Thank you for staying up with us. I really appreciate it.

• 1:30:32Amanda Dobbins?

  Lovely to see you.

• 1:30:33Sean Fennessey?

  Listen to Joanna on the MIRI podcast that she hosts here at The Ringer. We used to let her name them, but we won't do that tonight. Thank you so much to Jack Sanders for his video production work and the delivery of-

• 1:30:44Amanda Dobbins?

  And for a coffee cake. It's really, it's really nice. My last podcast before leave, there was a coffee cake from Bobby and the first podcast, well, second podcast back, but a coffee cake from Jack. It's very kind of both of you and it's delicious.

• 1:30:58Sean Fennessey?

  Bobby was also a giver of the, this coffee cake as well. Thank you to Bobby Wagner, our producer on this podcast for his work. We'll be back very soon. In, in just a few days, we'll be discussing the film Baby Girl, once you've had a chance to see it. And we're going to build a Hall of Fame for Nicole Kidman. And I'd like to tell you something. I believe Nicole Kidman has made 45 movies this century.

• 1:31:17Amanda Dobbins?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:18Sean Fennessey?

  That's not a joke.

• 1:31:18Amanda Dobbins?

  No.

• 1:31:19Sean Fennessey?

  She's also starred in five television shows and she is the face of AMC.

• 1:31:23Amanda Dobbins?

  Our-

• 1:31:24Sean Fennessey?

  In this century.

• 1:31:25Amanda Dobbins?

  And are television shows eligible?

• 1:31:26Sean Fennessey?

  Well, I don't know.

• 1:31:29Amanda Dobbins?

  Okay. Oh, this is exciting.

• 1:31:30Sean Fennessey?

  Because who has a bigger and broader and bolder CV than Nicole Kidman? I'm not sure if anyone we've ever talked about on the show does, but we will talk about it very, very soon. We'll see you then.

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