Pod Insights History That Doesn't Suck 187: From the Rhineland to Poland (1935–1939): Annexation, Appeasement, & the Start of World War II About this episode “A great war can hardly be avoided any longer.”
This is the story of Nazi Germany’s aggressive territorial expansion and the start of WWII.
The Treaty of Versailles has long been a thorn in Adolf Hitler’s side. Its troublesome limits on troops and technology pose challenges for a man bent on taking lebensraum and building a Grossdeuschland by any means necessary. So he starts quietly building planes and submarines. Then he starts publicly adding a few hundred thousand more soldiers. By 1936, he’s ready to move. He remilitarizes the Rhineland. When that goes well, he only grows bolder. He takes Austria. He takes Czechoslovakia’s Sudetenland.
Many European leaders—particularly those not named Winston Churchill—fail to grasp just how far the Fuhrer will go. They hope to “appease” him. But when Adolf strikes again, brazenly seizing the rest of Czechoslovakia, even British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain is ready to draw a line. That line is Poland.
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Transcript 10,879 words · 6 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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2:39 Greg Jackson? It's a cool and cloudy morning, August 2nd, 1936. We're in Berlin, Germany, at the Heisch Sportsfield Stadium, where Jesse Owens is doing his best to stay warm before his first race. Much is expected of the lean, muscular, and handsome athlete. Setting world records in track and field since high school, Jesse has only continued to do so as an Ohio State University student. In fact, just last year, he set three world records and tied a fourth within 45 minutes. Yeah. Jesse, aka "The Buckeye Bolt", or "The Black Bolt", "The Brown Bolt", "The American Thunderbolt", or "The Midnight Express", as the press variously calls the black college athlete,
3:23 Greg Jackson? is truly in a league of his own. But the humble, hard-working son of an Alabama sharecropper is never one to take things for granted. Hence, his dutiful warm-ups, while patiently waiting for the 12th and final heat, his heat, in the 100-meter dash. Just before noon, Jesse steps onto the track. Like his competitors from Belgium, Malta, Brazil, and Japan, he takes his lane and lets his fingers sink into the cinder surface, preparing to launch himself with a crouch start. And then, powerfully, gracefully, effortlessly, Jesse flies down the track, leaving the other sprinters in the dust to tear through the tape in 10.3 seconds.
4:07 Greg Jackson? He's just tied the world and Olympic record?
4:11 Greg Jackson? The German crowd goes wild. What a relief. Jesse came to these Games in Nazi Germany unsure what to expect, so this is most welcome. Nonetheless, the situation remains fraught. Actually, Jesse's got a long bus ride to and from the Olympic Village, and we regretfully won't catch him again until his 100-meter final race tomorrow. So let me fill you in on the controversy surrounding the Berlin Olympic Games while we wait.
4:40 Greg Jackson? First, the International Olympic Committee didn't intentionally choose the capital of Nazi Germany. No, when the committee chose Berlin for the 1936 Games five years back, it was still the capital of the Weimar Republic. But Adolf Hitler gladly ran with it when he took power. He saw the Olympics' propaganda potential, the opportunity to project beauty, power, and otherwise charm the world. In 1933, he announced plans for this new and awe-inspiring sports complex that we're now in: the Reichssportfeldstadium. Then the world started hearing about his regime's early persecution of the Jews. Some questioned: Should these Games go on?
5:23 Greg Jackson? The American Olympic Committee paid a visit to Germany in September 1934, and it seemed, in their view, that Jewish athletes were being treated fairly. So, America stayed on board. But things got worse. Only a year later, the Nuremberg Laws, we learned about in episode 185, stripped Jewish Germans of their citizenship. The following month, the American Federation of Labor and the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People called for a boycott of the Berlin Games. Groups around the world echoed these sentiments, and plans for a counter-Olympics in Spain, dubbed "The People's Olympiad", began to take form. Unfortunately, the Spanish Civil War ultimately derailed it. Thus, despite reservations,
6:09 Greg Jackson? 49 nations, including the United States, are at the Berlin Games. And thus far, these international visitors are impressed. Berlin is clean, orderly. The people look healthy and happy. In fact, some black American athletes report feeling more welcome in Berlin than in Jim Crow America. But that's just the brilliance of the Nazi propaganda machine. See, none of these guests know that 800 Berlin Roma were recently arrested for simply existing and whisked away. They don't know that just outside the city, the Sachsenhausen concentration camp is under construction. They don't know the persecution of the Jews is merely on hiatus.
6:52 Greg Jackson? That Jewish German organizers and athletes have largely been sidelined. That "half-Jewish" Helena Meyer is only fencing for Germany to placate the International Olympic Committee. And that many in Germany are terrified of what will come when these games end. That said, everyone knows about the Führer's belief in racial hierarchy. And everyone's curious to see how he'll respond to America's many excellent black athletes, like Jesse Owens. And with that background, let's watch the Buckeye Bullitt run his 100-meter final race.
7:31 Greg Jackson? It's now 5:00 PM the following day, August 30th, 1936. And Jesse Owens is stepping onto the track at the Leisch Sportsfield Stadium. He's already having an incredible games. He would have set a new world and Olympic record for the 100-meter dash with his 10.2-second finish in the quarterfinal race, had German officials not discounted it due to the strong wind at his back. Hmm, but was it wind or racism? Hard to say. Nonetheless, Jesse isn't thinking about that, Adolf Hitler, or any other distractions as he crouches in his lane. As you will later see of this moment, "I knew that 10 seconds would climax the work of eight years. One mistake could ruin those eight years."
8:16 Greg Jackson? So, why worry about Hitler? Jesse charges forward, his legs all but blur as he zips down the lane. His lead is enormous, and... He wins! Once again, Jesse has tied the world and Olympic record for the 100-meter dash, finishing in 10.3 seconds.
8:37 Greg Jackson? Victorious atop the podium and crowned in laurels, Jesse stands in his USA sweat suit solemnly saluting as the Star Spangled Banner plays and the Stars and Stripes rise. He'll later call this "the happiest moment of his entire career." But afterward, as Jesse steps away from the podium, he looks up into the stands and... Is that the Fuhrer looking at him? Jesse thinks so. And... Is Adolf smiling? And waving? Saluting? The tired and excited athlete will never be able to say for sure, but Jesse waves back. So begins Berlin's Olympic and Propaganda Games.
9:37 Greg Jackson? Welcome to History That Doesn't Suck. I'm your professor, Greg Jackson, and I'd like to tell you a story.
9:59 Greg Jackson? The 100-meter dash was but the first win for Jesse Owens. He leaves the Berlin Games with four gold medals, a feat unmatched by another athlete for 48 years. And did this upset Adolf Hitler? While we don't have the sources to prove it, and the claim that the Fuhrer expressly refused to shake Jesse's hand is a myth, Nazi propaganda minister Dr. Joseph Goebbels was livid. After black Americans won gold in the opening days, he wrote in his journal: "White people should be ashamed of themselves." So much for white supremacy, huh? But as thrilling as Jesse's performance was, the Games leave a deadly legacy. Jesse's fast-made German friend, long jumper Karl Ludwig, will die in the war to come.
10:45 Greg Jackson? Many Jewish athletes, including four Dutch gymnasts and/or trainer, will die in the Holocaust. And as for Captain Wolfgang Förster, the organizer of the Olympic Village and a German officer of Jewish descent, well, he could see where his nation was headed. Only days after the Games, he commits suicide.
11:06 Greg Jackson? And just where Germany is headed in the 1930s brings us to today's tale.
11:12 Greg Jackson? Picking up where we left off in episode 184, with Adolf Hitler fully entrenched as the fascist dictator of Nazi Germany, this is the story of the Führers Treaty of Versailles shredding militarism, deceitful diplomacy, and aggressive expansionism between 1934 and 1939. We'll see the German war machine rise. German troops enter the Rhineland, the Nazi Reich annex Austria and dismember Czechoslovakia, and finally Adolf's invasion of Poland on September 1st, 1939, that officially starts the European theater of World War II. We'll encounter a slew of European leaders and nations along the way. One is British MP Winston Churchill,
11:54 Greg Jackson? who believes Adolf is a monster that must be stopped. Another is British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, who believes that giving in to Adolf's demands, a policy known as appeasement, is the best bet for avoiding another horrific conflict like the Great War. We'll, uh, see how that plays out. Now, as we march toward war, let me note a few things to keep in mind. First, listen for the traits of fascism, and specifically Nazism, that we defined in episodes 183 and 184. We'll see Adolf's regime, being a fascist regime, glories in war waged to build empire with expanded borders.
12:36 Greg Jackson? Even more specifically, we'll see Adolf's brand of fascism, his Nazism, justifying that expansion through: One, the German nationalist dream of a Grossdeutschland, or Greater Germany, that puts all ethnic Germans and their lands under one German nation. And two, the "need" for more land, that is, "living space", or "Liebensraum", for the expanding German people, as described by Adolf in Mein Kampf. Well, the road to war lies ahead. Let us begin, and we do so by returning to 1934 Nazi Germany. Rewind.
13:21 Greg Jackson? The summer of 1934 is a pivotal point for Adolf Hitler. A time of solidifying internal power and looking outward. As we know from episode 184, August brings the death of President Paul von Hindenburg, letting Adolf absorb what little power he didn't already wield to become the full dictator or Führer und Reichskanzler of Nazi Germany. And in doing so, the new Führer assures the world that he wants peace, telling the London Daily Mail that: "War will not come again. Germany has a more profound impression than any other of the evil war causes. Germany's problems cannot be settled by a war." Huh.
14:05 Greg Jackson? Quite a statement from a guy who, as we've seen in our last few episodes, has unflinchingly relied on SA/Brown Shirt and SS Violence and Murder to consolidate power. But the simple truth is that this outward reassurance is a lie. Adolf's real intent is captured in the ideas of Großdeutsch German nationalism and Liben Sram, which we covered in episode 184. He intends to build this empire through incremental steps that will keep his potential opponents, the Great War Allies and the League of Nations, from reacting. Basically, he's hoping they'll behave like the metaphorical frog in slowly boiling water,
14:46 Greg Jackson? failing to recognize the danger until it's too late. The slow boil began this same summer, even before the German president drew his final breath. In June 1934, Adolf instructed naval chief Erich Schreiter to expand Germany's fleet. This included adding submarines secretly built in Finland, Holland, and Spain. Everyone involved knows that this violates the Great War ending Treaty of Versailles, which not only caps the German navy but expressly forbids submarines. You know, those nasty U-boats that contributed to America's entry into the war, as we saw in episode 132. Nonetheless, this quiet buildup moves forward.
15:28 Greg Jackson? The following month, on July 25th, Austrian Nazis assassinated Austrian Chancellor Engelbert Duthus. They failed to seize the government, and again, they were Austrians, not Germans. But still, it's hard not to see the connection to Adolf's expansionist endeavors. And with Paul von Hindenburg gone shortly thereafter, the Führer and his cronies heat the metaphorical waters a bit more the following year. They go public with their treaty defiance. On March 9th, 1935, Hermann Göring announces the existence of a Luftwaffe, that is, a German air force. Like the U-boats, this is a direct breach of the Treaty of Versailles. The world only watches. Adolf's encouraged.
16:13 Greg Jackson? He goes public with another treaty violation only a week later. On March 16th, the Führer's "Law for the buildup of the Wehrmacht" increases the Treaty of Versailles sanctioned German army of 100,005-fold to a non-Treaty of Versailles sanctioned size of 500,000. As justification, the law asserts that, "Since the Allies have not disarmed, law-loving Germany is 'compelled to take measures necessary to end the unworthy and dangerous defenseless state of a great people and Reich.'" The next day, March 17th, all of Germany celebrates Hero's Remembrance Day in honor of World War I vets
16:55 Greg Jackson? and the nation's effective repudiation of the Treaty of Versailles. The League of Nations condemns Adolf's rearmament, but leaves it at that. Just words. Not surprising, though. Does the League or any nation really want to escalate and risk war? Especially as Adolf insists that he doesn't. The Daily Mail quotes the Führer as saying: "The German Volk does not want war. It wants only the same rights as all others." Hmm. Reassurance that the water won't be brought to a boil even as the temperature increases. What a brilliant lie.
17:35 Greg Jackson? During the fall and winter of 1935 to 1936, Adolf watches closely as the League of Nations, Britain, and France respond to Benito Mussolini's invasion of Abyssinia, that is Ethiopia. As we know from episode 183, that response is near finger-wagging. Hmm, Adolf's emboldened all the more. Moving into February 1936, the Führer is "brooding," as Dr. Joseph Goebbels puts it, "overwethered to move troops into the demilitarized Rhineland." Let's recall that both the Treaty of Versailles and the later Treaty of Locarno forbid German troops from setting foot in this western region of their nation that borders neighboring France. It's a precaution against another German invasion.
18:21 Greg Jackson? But now confident that neither the Great War Allies nor the League will stop him, Adolf feels it's time for this next incremental step. Ignoring warnings from Germany's seasoned diplomats and military minds who fear the worst, he decides to re-militarize the Rhineland. On the morning of March 7, 1936, a German force of roughly 22,000 soldiers and 14,500 policemen, backed by 156 artillery guns and 54 fighter planes, enters this western German turf. Only some 3,000 men cross the Rhine River itself. If the French respond, the plan is to retreat. Famously, the Führer will later call this moment and the following 48 hours:
19:05 Greg Jackson? "The most nerve-wracking of my life. If the French had retaliated, we would have had to withdraw with our tail between our legs, for the military resources at our disposal would have been wholly inadequate for even a moderate resistance."
19:23 Greg Jackson? But is it nerve-wracking, or just later propaganda? France removed its troops from the Rhineland back in 1930, intending never to return. Nonetheless, at this point, one French division could beat the Germans back. Historians will forever debate how risky re-militarizing the Rhineland is or isn't, but the fact remains that neither the League nor the Allies stop Adolf. France alone responds but only by reinforcing its border fortifications known as the Maginot Line.
19:55 Greg Jackson? Neighboring Central European nations like Austria and Czechoslovakia are feeling the heat. Are they next? Ah, but right on cue, Adolf gives another outward reassurance. On July 11, 1936, the Austro-German Agreement reaffirms Germany's approval of Austrian sovereignty, even if it notes that Austria will act as a "German state" in matters of foreign policy. But that's the public section, mind you. The private unpublished clauses note that Austria will grant amnesty to Nazi political prisoners and appoint Nazi sympathizers to positions of political power. Sounds like Austria is being brought to a slow boil. Meanwhile, the outward charm offensive continues.
20:40 Greg Jackson? That same summer of 36 brings the world to Berlin for the Olympic Games with all the impressive propaganda that we heard about in this episode's opening. Newly appointed German ambassador to Britain, Joachim von Ribbentrop, talks a big game about amicable relations. But at the same time, the Führer's new four-year plan is calling for Germany to be politically and economically ready for war by 1940. Indeed, Nazi Germany signs two key pacts that fall in preparation for the coming conflict. First is the Rome-Berlin Axis of 1936, which, as we know from the end of episode 183, coins the term Axis Powers. Though an informal alliance, it marks Italy's shift away from the Allies and toward the
21:23 Greg Jackson? embrace of Nazi Germany, including an implicit acceptance of Adolf's aspirations to absorb Austria and otherwise expand. Second is the anti-communism pact with Japan, which, according to Ambassador Ribbentrop, will help "defend Western civilization." By "Western," he means anti-communist. It's really an anti-Soviet Union pact, as we see in the pact's non-published, that is, secret, clauses.
21:53 Greg Jackson? Emboldened all the more, the Fuhrer uses his speech to the Reichstag on January 30th, 1937, to announce "The withdrawal of the German signature" from the Treaty of Versailles. "I hereby declare that the section of the Versailles Treaty which deprived our nation of the rights that it shared on an equal footing with other nations and degraded it to the level of an inferior people found its natural liquidation in virtue of the restoration of equality of status." He also notes the successes of the Nazi Revolution in Germany as compared to what he calls "the bloody fascist revolution" in Italy.
22:33 Greg Jackson? Yeah, it seems Adolf's still salty about Benito treating him as a lesser earlier on, even though the two are now allies. As journalist and later historian of the Third Reich, William Shire writes, "Neither Great Britain and France, their governments and their peoples, nor the majority of the German peoples seemed to realize as 1937 began that almost all that Hitler had done in his first four years was a preparation for war." Close quote. Throughout the summer of 1937, Germany toys with different war strategies, specifically with an eye to the threat that Britain, France, and Russia might pose, be it an hour later, to Germany's "needed" expansion.
23:17 Greg Jackson? Things get solidified in a November 5th meeting. Here, the Fuhrer moves up his war preparation deadline to 1938. Three officials dare to question the Reichs's ability to prepare so quickly, and Adolf's response is to fire all three of them over the next three months. Thus, as we enter 1938, Adolf is more prepared for war than ever, still convinced that no major powers are yet willing to stop him, and very pleased with the riotous mess Austria's Nazi Party is making for its anti-Nazi government. Indeed, eager as he is to move on both Czechoslovakia and Austria, the Fuhrer will start by fulfilling the long-held German nationalist dream of "Groß Deutschland," a "greater Germany"
24:02 Greg Jackson? that includes his native Austria. And he'll do it whether Austria wants it or not.
24:12 Greg Jackson? It's Saturday morning, February 12, 1938. We're just north of the Austrian border, among the Bavarian Alps, just outside Brückte Skaden, Germany, where Austria's chancellor Kurt Schuschnig is just arriving at Adolf Hitler's vacation home, known as the Berghof. Approaching the villa, the light-haired, bespectacled, and faintly mustachioed Austrian sees his counterpart, Nazi Germany's chancellor, or the Führer, waiting for him on the steps, and dressed like a brown shirt. The imagery is not lost on Kurt, who now personifies Mary Howitt's poem, "The Spider and the Fly." In this case, he is the fly, Adolf's the spider,
24:55 Greg Jackson? and this picturesque villa is the parlor.
25:00 Greg Jackson? Soon alone, the two leaders discuss Austrian sovereignty, and the Führer isn't above making harsh statements to the chancellor. "You have done everything to avoid a friendly policy. The whole history of Austria is just one uninterrupted act of high treason. I am absolutely determined to make an end of all this. The German Reich is one of the great powers, and nobody will raise his voice if it settles its border problems." A seasoned politician and well-bred Austrian, Kurt threads the needle between placating kindness and standing his ground. But the Führer doesn't dither. He reminds Kurt that...
25:44 Greg Jackson? "I have only to give an order, and in one single night, all your ridiculous defense mechanisms will be blown to bits. I would very much like to save Austria from such a fate, because an action would mean blood." He asks the Austrian chancellor to consider his terms as they break for lunch without Adolf actually laying out said terms. Apparently, that's an afternoon thing.
26:12 Greg Jackson? After lunch, Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbenthal presents Kurt with a two-page document containing these so-called terms. They call for amnesty for Austrian Nazis, the appointment of Austrian Nazi Arthur Zeiss Inkart as Minister of Security, and early steps to integrate Austria with Germany's economy and foreign policy. All of this is to happen within the week. The Austrian Chancellor is appalled. Austria would be reduced to a mere satellite state of Germany. But there's little he can do, and as Kurt steps into the study, or might we say spider web, Adolf makes sure he knows it. Herr Schuschnig, here is the draft of this document. There is nothing to be discussed.
26:57 Greg Jackson? I will not change one single iota. You will either sign it as is and fulfill my demands within three days, or I will order the march into Austria. Looking for an out, Kurt reminds Adolf that only Austria's president can sign such an agreement. He says he'll have to take the papers back home. Adolf flies into a rage as he yells for General Wilhelm Keitel. What is his intention? Arrest? Murder? The general's presence scares the Austrian Chancellor into signing. Heartbroken, Kurt recognizes that this means: "Nothing is but the complete end of the independence
27:37 Greg Jackson? of the Austrian government." It's a whirlwind of a month. With the imminent threat of a Nazi military invasion hanging over him, President Wilhelm Miklas begrudgingly accepts this so-called Berchtesgaden Agreement on February 15th. Adolf Hitler is pleased, and on February 20th, a mere eight days after he terrified the Chancellor into signing these harsh terms, he gives a speech to the Reichstag in which he calls it "unbearable" that 10 million fellow ethnic Germans beyond Nazi Germany's borders are not under the "protection of the German Leiche." Ah, now he's publicly admitting, even if through slightly veiled words, that he means
28:22 Greg Jackson? to annex Austria and Czechoslovakia's heavily German Sudetenland. And since this speech was broadcast on the radio, Austrian and Sudetenland Nazis heard it loud and clear. Both groups are now rioting in support of a Nazi takeover. This is when Kurt Schuschnig finds his backbone. Four days later, on the 24th, the fortified Austrian chancellor answers that Austria has reached a moment. "Wir müssen eine Pause nennen und sagen: Bis hierhin und weiter nicht!" On Wednesday, March 9th, he declares that he'll put the question of annexation to the Austrian people with a plebiscite. It will be held in four days, on Sunday, the 13th. The Führer is furious.
29:06 Greg Jackson? The next day, Thursday, March 10th, he decides that he'll occupy Austria militarily before Sunday's plebiscite. He acts immediately. At 5:30 a.m., Friday, March 11th, Chief of Police Dr. Michael Scoob wakes Chancellor Kurt Schuschnig with dire news. Germany is amassing forces on the border. "Good God." By 2 p.m., Austria's leaders concede. The plebiscite is called off. But that's not good enough now. Amid a series of calls between Germany and Austria, Adolf adds that Kurt must resign so that the Nazi puppet already elevated to Minister of Security, Arthur Zeisankwart, can replace him as chancellor. Kurt burns with anger. But what can he do?
29:51 Greg Jackson? It's this or the sword for the Austrian people. He resigns that afternoon. By 5 p.m., President Wilhelm Miklas reluctantly accepts the resignation but doesn't appoint the Führer-selected successor, instead declaring: "Austria alone determines who is to be the head of government." But reality is in the airwaves, as the president has his recently resigned chancellor, Kurt Schuschnig, make a final radio broadcast to his country at 7:50 p.m. "President Miklas has asked me to tell the people of Austria that we have yielded to force since we are not prepared, even in this terrible hour, to shed blood.
30:34 Greg Jackson? We have decided to order troops to offer no resistance. So I take leave of the Austrian people. God protect Austria."
30:46 Greg Jackson? Around midnight, President Miklas reluctantly appoints Arthur Seisenkurt as Chancellor of Austria. This stops nothing. Adolf ordered the German army to move out nearly two hours earlier. The next morning, March 12th, German troops cross the border into Austria. They encounter no resistance. Meanwhile, the new Chancellor meets the Führer in Linz. There, the Austrian proclaims that Article 88 of the Treaty of Saint-Germain of 1919, which specifies that “post-Great War Austria is independent and sovereign,” is now null and void. By March 13th, the “Law for the Unification of Austria with the German Reich” is announced.
31:30 Greg Jackson? Yes, the annexation of Austria, or Anschluss, and its 7 million souls, is official. Austria is no longer a sovereign nation, but a part of Adolf’s expanding Third Reich. His vision for a Großdeutschland is truly starting to take shape. And considering that February 20th speech, it sounds like a move on Czechoslovakia’s 3 million Sudeten Germans is not only on the docket, but next and imminent. And we’re going there, but not just yet. First, I need to introduce you to one man in the Western world who isn’t a metaphorical frog, who does see that the Nazi waters washing over Austria are threatening to boil the entire continent.
32:14 Greg Jackson? He’s just a backbench parliamentarian at the moment, but he, his cigars, and his poodle Rufus are destined for far more in our story. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the British hold on: Winston Churchill.
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34:38 Greg Jackson? Ah, Winston Churchill. We've bumped into him in past episodes, but let's take it from the top. Born on November 30, 1874, at Blenheim Palace, England, Winston Churchill was the son of British nobility and an American-born heiress. As a child, Winnie, to use the family nickname, was adventurous, got mediocre grades, and misbehaved often before finally getting into the Royal Military College in 1893 on his third try. While in service, he went to Cuba, India, and South Africa. As a war correspondent during the Second World War, Winnie was captured in 1899. But he escaped.
35:20 Greg Jackson? Such daring generated much publicity and gave him the name recognition to enter Parliament in 1900. Originally elected as a Conservative, he flipped to the Liberal Party in 1904. In 1911, Winston became the First Lord of the Admiralty, putting him in charge of the British Navy as the Great War loomed then began. But after the disastrous Gallipoli campaign of 1915, for which he was largely, and some say unfairly, blamed, Winston was forced out. Feeling adrift, the adventurous Brit turned to painting, which served as a form of therapy for him as he battled what he called "the Black Dog of Depression." And you know, he's actually pretty good. Far better with a brush than a certain frustrated Bavarian soldier
36:05 Greg Jackson? who got rejected from art school. And speaking of soldiering, Winston didn't just sit the war out after Gallipoli. In 1916, he became an army officer, bravely leading from the front as the commander of a battalion of the Royal Scots Fusiliers on the Western Front. Toward the end of the war, in 1917, when he returned to government as Minister of Munitions under Prime Minister David Lloyd George. In 1919, he became Secretary of State for War, and in 1921, swapped to Secretary of State for the Colonies. Ah, yes, we saw him in this role at the Cairo Conference that same year in episode 150. Briefly out of office, he returned not only to Parliament in 1924, but to the Conservative Party.
36:50 Greg Jackson? Indeed, few politicians have or ever could flip parties like Winston, or, as he puts it,
36:56 Speaker 03 "Anyone can rat, but it takes a certain amount of ingenuity to rerat."
37:04 Greg Jackson? The newly rechristened Conservative served as Chancellor of the Exchequer, that is, Chief Finance and Economic Minister, for the next five years, until 1929. Notably, Chancellor Churchill put Britain back on the gold standard in 1925, a decision that, as we know from episode 172, was the conventional wisdom of the day, but ultimately backfired, helping to fuel the Great Depression. And with the fall of the conservative government in 1929, we've returned to our present, and to what Winston Churchill knows as his wilderness years. The ten-year period from 1929 to 1939, in which the cigar-loving Brit retains his seat in Parliament but has no government position.
37:47 Greg Jackson? He's a backbencher, and more than that, a political outsider with ideas some see as outdated, like his opposition to giving India greater independence. But among his out-of-step views in the 1930s, views he defends with such conviction that no one can doubt his sincerity even if they scoff and doubt his wisdom, is his deep concern over the rise of fascism in Italy and Germany. Fed data from civil servants who share his alarm, Winston speaks authoritatively in his denunciations of Benito Mussolini, and especially of Adolf Hitler. He's becoming something of a, shall we say, bulldog. And when news breaks of Germany's annexation of Austria, or "the rape of Austria," as
38:31 Greg Jackson? some in the press put it, his bark is an unmistakable call to bite. It's Monday, March 14, 1938. We're in London, England, inside the Palace of Westminster, where the House of Commons is in deep and heated debate over Germany's annexation of Austria. Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, who is as committed to avoiding war as he is to keeping his thick mustache neatly trimmed, has just spoken in favor of appeasing Adolf Hitler, that is, of giving ground in hopes of avoiding another horrific war. But not everyone agrees, especially not the wilderness years backbencher Winston Churchill.
39:14 Greg Jackson? At 6:26 PM, the five-foot-six, over-two-hundred-pound bulldog rises, clears his throat, and denounces this path of rolling over to Adolf.
39:24 Speaker 03 The gravity of the event of the eleventh of March cannot be exaggerated. Europe is confronted with a program of aggression, nicely calculated and timed, unfolding stage by stage. And there is only one choice open, not only to us, but to other countries who are unfortunately concerned, either to submit, like Austria, or else to take effective measures while time remains, to ward off the danger, and, if it cannot be warded off, to cope with it. Where are we going to be two years hence, for instance, when the German army will suddenly be much larger than the French army?
40:09 Speaker 03 We cannot leave the Austrian question where it is. We await the further statement of the government. But it is quite clear that we cannot accept as a final solution of the problem of Central Europe the event which occurred on the eleventh of March. I wanted to make this point. It is the only point of detail that I shall venture to make, that we are not in a position to say tonight, "The past is the past." We cannot say, "The past is the past," without surrendering the future. If a number of states were assembled around Great Britain and France in a solemn treaty for mutual defense against aggression, if they had their forces marshaled in what you may call a grand alliance,
40:54 Speaker 03 if they had their staff arrangements concerted, if all this rested, as it can honorably rest, upon the covenants of the League of Nations, agreeable with all the purposes and ideals of the League of Nations, if that were sustained, as it would be by the moral sense of the world, and if it were done in the year 1938, and believe me, it may be the last chance there will be for doing it, then I say you might even now arrest this approaching war. Then perhaps the curse which overhangs Europe would pass away.
41:32 Greg Jackson? Finishing his bold call to preserve peace by preparing for war at 6:54 PM, Winston returns to his seat. But the debate isn't over. No, it'll go late tonight, and in many ways continue for the foreseeable future.
41:50 Greg Jackson? I know, from a 21st century perspective, it feels obvious that nations such as Britain and France, or even the alba unconcerned United States, should see that war with Nazi Germany is coming. But that's hindsight talking. Right now, in 1938, Winston Churchill's boldness is an outlier. Filled with horrific memories of the Great War, most leaders are still hoping and praying to avoid a second such global catastrophe. Hence, they've let Adolf Hitler take Austria. But can they continue to maintain peace as the Führer casts his gaze at Czechoslovakia's Sudetenland? We cracked the door on this particular move with Adolf's February 20th speech, but let
42:33 Greg Jackson? me give you a little background. As I trust you recall from episode 147, the Versailles Treaty formed at Czechoslovakia in 1919. Well, it's now one of the most liberal, progressive, and democratic states in Central Europe, but also faces the challenge of being home to a mix of nationalities. Not just Czechs and Slovaks, but Hungarians, Poles, and yes, some 3 million Germans. These Germans are mostly concentrated along the western curve of the country's border with newly expanded Nazi Germany, in the mountainous region known as the Sudetenland. Hence, they're known as Sudeten Germans. As we know from his speech, Adolf wants them and their easy-to-defend territory folded into his Third Reich. And
43:15 Greg Jackson? with Austria secured in March 1938, this threat to Czechoslovakian sovereignty is getting very real, very fast. Over the weekend of May 20th, Prague hears unconfirmed but alarming reports that German troops in Saxony are concentrating along Czechoslovakia's northwestern border. The Czech government doesn't mess around. It mobilizes 180,000 soldiers. From Czechoslovakia's treaty-bound allies of France and the USSR, to Britain and beyond, panic spreads across Europe. Once again, it feels like the continent is on the precipice of a major war. This horrifying weekend is known as the May Crisis. But war doesn't break out, not yet at least.
44:00 Greg Jackson? Instead, the summer of 1938 becomes a season of frantic diplomatic maneuvering. But even as his government talks of peace, Adolf is ramping up his war machine. And this isn't just about strategic readiness. As his biographer Ian Kershaw points out, even beyond his German nationalist goals, Adolf "wants" war. The rest of the world just doesn't realize it yet. And so, as Sudeten Nazis escalate their absurd demands on the Czech government, the Führer declares his intention to back them with military force. Always eager to avoid conflict, British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain scribbles out an urgent message to the German dictator on September 13th at 11:00 PM.
44:44 Greg Jackson? "In view of your increasingly critical situation, I propose to come over at once, to see you with a view to trying to find a peaceful solution." Adolf is astounded. Has he really got the Prime Minister of the Great British Empire at his beck and call? Oh, for this, he'll gladly slow his roll and take the meeting. Two days later, September 15th, Neville arrives at Berchtesgaden. He and Adolf speak privately. The Führer articulates his primary goal clearly: "to 'reunite' the Sudeten Germans of Czechoslovakia with the Reich." He presses the British Prime Minister.
45:26 Greg Jackson? "Would Britain agree to a secession of the Sudeten region, or would she not? A secession on the basis of the right of self-determination?" Neville says he can't commit to anything without talking to his cabinet. Classic. That said, he adds that he personally thinks the detachment of the Sudeten region is reasonable and will inform his government of such. Upon returning home, Neville encourages the Prague-based Czech government to accept the Anglo-French plan, which cedes the Sudetenland to Germany in exchange for guarantees of Czechoslovakia's continued independence. If they don't, they won't get French and
46:08 Greg Jackson? British support. Czech President Edvard Benesch realizes he's being deserted by his so-called friends. He tries once more to rally France, but with British encouragement, the Gallic nation refuses to adhere to their previous treaty. By late afternoon on the 21st, the defeated Czech president agrees to the Anglo-French plan, reportedly saying, "We have been basically betrayed." He's not wrong. On September 22nd, Neville Chamberlain meets Adolf Hitler in the town of Gudisberg. The British PM informs the Führer that the British, French, and Czech governments have agreed to the Anglo-French plan. Astounded that things have moved so swiftly in his favor,
46:50 Greg Jackson? Adolf replies, "I am terribly sorry, but after the events of the last few days, this plan is no longer of any use." What? See, Adolf wants military occupation. He wants to prove that his German Reich is more powerful than the quivering Western powers, so desperate to do anything to avoid war. The very next morning, September 23rd, Czech President Edvard Benesch announces a mobilization of his nation's troops. Yes, the whole agreement is down the drain. Meanwhile, Adolf declares that he'll have the Sudetenland one way or another, and Czechoslovakia has until 2:00
47:30 Greg Jackson? PM on September 28th to make that annexation peaceful. Like I said, the Führer's itching for war. A volley of angry notes fly back and forth between Germany and England. On Black Wednesday, September 28th, Hermann Göring declares, "A great war can hardly be avoided any longer." Just a few minutes before 2:00 PM, the deadline of the Nazi ultimatum to the Czech government, Adolf surprises everyone by sending a message to the leaders of France, Italy, and the United Kingdom, calling an emergency conference in Munich the very next day to deal with the Czechoslovakia crisis. Notably, the Czechs themselves are not invited. Neither is their ally, the Soviet Union.
48:13 Greg Jackson? At 12:45 PM, Thursday, September 29th, the Munich Conference begins. Seated around a large table, two democratic leaders, British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain and French Prime Minister Edouard de Laddier, find themselves opposite two fascists: their host, the German Fuhrer Adolf Hitler, and the man who talked his fellow dictator into this conference, Italy’s Ducce, Benito Mussolini. At Neville’s insistence, two Czech representatives are permitted to sit in the room next door as their nation is carved up. That’s the Fuhrer being nice. Meanwhile, the group talks all day and into the night, ultimately giving Adolf pretty much everything he wants.
48:56 Greg Jackson? The Sudetenland is not only his, but it’s coming faster and with less strings attached than the original Anglo-French plan. At 10 PM, British delegation members present this fait accompli to the two Czechs, adding that “if they don’t accept that their country must immediately evacuate much of the Sudetenland, you will have to settle your affairs with Germany absolutely alone.” In the early dark hours of September 30th, Adolf, Benito, Neville, and Edouard sign the Munich Agreement, allowing Germany to militarily occupy the Sudetenland on October 1st. The Czechs are ushered into the room, but it’s merely ceremonial. Again, they have no say over what’s happening to their country.
49:41 Greg Jackson? Neville takes no joy in what’s happened, but he does in what he believes is its outcome. He thinks he’s successfully navigated the fascist threat, that by accepting the injustice dealt to Czechoslovakia, that is, by appeasing Adolf, who says this is the last territory he wants to take, he spared a whole generation from the blood, carnage, and death of the last generation, that lost generation. If so, Neville thinks this odious Munich Agreement is worth it. Yes, the British Prime Minister is filled with hope, with an expectation of peace, and returning home that same day, he shares that expectation with the British people.
50:30 Greg Jackson? It's Sunday evening, September 30th, 1938, and Neville Chamberlain must be exhausted. Having signed the Munich Agreement technically this very morning, he's since flown back to Britain, immediately addressed an enthusiastic crowd after landing the Heston aerodrome, and now, as he finally catches his breath, back in his official residence at 10 Downing Street, London. The people have gathered outside. They're cheering! Ah, the life of a public servant never stops. Pushing through his fatigue, the grey, mustachioed, 69-year-old Prime Minister steps out to address them. "My good friends, this is the second time in our history
51:13 Greg Jackson? that there has come back from Germany to Downing Street, peace with honor. I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts." The crowd is delighted. With so many here undoubtedly carrying mental and/or physical scars from the Great War, they are beyond relieved to feel so certain they won't have to return to such a living hell. They shout back: "We thank you! God bless you!" Pleased that he has the support of the people, the PM replies: "Now, I recommend you go home and sleep quietly in your beds." It takes a few more polite hints, but not too many.
51:58 Greg Jackson? This is a British crowd. They get it. Singing for "He's a Jolly Good Fellow", the people are soon disappearing in the distance.
52:10 Greg Jackson? "Peace for our time." Oh, if only. A week later, on October 5th, Czech President Edvard Beneš is forced to resign. He flees to England out of a fear for his life. Meanwhile, Poland and Hungary annex bits of now vulnerable Czechoslovakia. And as we enter 1939, Adolf Hitler forgoes all that talk of guaranteed independence and takes further advantage of the fact that, without the protection of the mountainous Sudetenland, his southeastern neighbor is ripe for the picking. With Slovakia breaking off as an independent state that will be a Nazi client, the Führer's troops enter what remains of Czechoslovakia on March 15, 1939, putting it under occupation,
52:53 Greg Jackson? remaking the fallen nation into the protectorate of Bohemia Moravia. You heard that right. Adolf has officially broken the not even six months old Munich Agreement. This time, taking territory that isn't even justifiable through German nationalism. Indeed, there's no pretense about Gottesdeutschland here. This is living space expansionism. Lieben Sie. And still, France and Britain do nothing. But the water is truly boiling now. Even the most hopeful are realizing that there's no appeasing the Führer. That he may very well grab yet more territory. And if he does, there will be no peace for our time. Only war.
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57:12 Greg Jackson? On March 31, 1939, two weeks since Adolf Hitler’s forces occupied what remained of Czechoslovakia, British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain is singing a different tune than the one he was on the day he returned from Munich. He tells the House of Commons: “In the event of any action which clearly threatened Polish independence and which the Polish government accordingly considered it vital to resist within their national forces, His Majesty’s government would feel themselves bound at once to lend the Polish government all support in their power. I may add that the French government have authorized me to make it plain that they stand in the same position in this matter.” Yeah, Neville gets it now.
57:56 Greg Jackson? He’s already rejected two Soviet offers to counter Nazi expansionism, and while Poland isn’t exactly blameless, having opportunistically grabbed territory from Czechoslovakia, it’s clear the Führer’s ambitions are boundless. Adolf lies, breaks treaties, and cannot be reasoned with. So, the British PM is drawing a firm line on the Führer’s likely next target: Poland. As for French PM Édouard de Ladey, who’s long had the right read on Adolf, he’s frustrated that Neville both led on appeasement and is now taking the lead again, this time defending yet another of France’s allies. Still, he throws in: France too has Poland’s back.
58:39 Greg Jackson? As for Adolf, he’s furious. These guarantees mean his strategy of constantly moving the goalposts might not work anymore. At a public appearance the day after Neville’s remarks, marking the launch of the battleship Tirpitz, the furious Führer makes not-so-veiled threats: “Then they say in other countries that they will arm and will keep arming still more. I can tell those statesmen only this: Me, you will never tire out. I am determined to continue on this road.” And continue, the Fuhrer does. “On April 28, 1939, Germany withdraws from its five-year-old non-aggression pact with Poland.
59:22 Greg Jackson? Less than a month later, on May 22, Germany and Italy sign the Pact of Steel, an agreement that elevates their Axis friendship to a full-blown military alliance. And only a day after that, on May 23, Adolf declares to his military chiefs that he’s “burning his boats”. “War is inevitable. The threat of Britain, France, or even the USSR won’t stop him.” In the name of Libensraum, he’s taking Poland. But the Fuhrer also notes that “our objectives must be kept secret from both Italy and Japan.” Man, cloak and dagger, even with his alleged friends. The summer of 1939 quickly shapes up as one of war prep and careful statecraft.
1:00:07 Greg Jackson? The USSR enters talks with Britain and France, while Nazi Germany scrambles to beat the Western democracies to the punch, signing non-aggression pacts with Denmark, Latvia, and Estonia. Though how anyone still takes the Fuhrer at his word is beyond me. Meanwhile, Germany and Russia are also in talks, and by June 15, Adolf has a plan for invading Poland. It remains top secret, though, even as the Hungarian premier assures the Fuhrer of Hungary’s support in July, but urges caution with Hungarian lives. But finally, in an August 11 through 13 meeting, Adolf has his Foreign Minister, Joachim von Ribbentrop, inform Italian Foreign Minister, Galeazzo Ciano,
1:00:50 Greg Jackson? who’s also Il Duce’s son-in-law, of Germany’s intent to take Poland. Fully aware this could mean war, the Italian asks what the Reich really wants. Ribbentrop stares back and exclaims, “We want war!” And as we know from the last episode, it’s less than two weeks later, on August 23, that Adolf mitigates his worry of a two-front war with the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. We won’t rehash this Nazi-Soviet agreement, except to recall that Joseph Stalin doesn’t trust Adolf. There are probably a million Gulag prisoners he trusts more. But he knows this non-aggression pact with its secret clause to divide Eastern Europe, including Poland, will buy him time to keep preparing for the inevitable war to come.
1:01:36 Greg Jackson? Inevitable indeed. As the last week of August begins, Italy’s Duce, Benito Mussolini, gets cold feet about his allies’ planned attack. British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain does his diplomatic best to talk Adolf down, and Poland, determined to stand against the Nazi monster in a way that neither Austria nor Czechoslovakia dared, musters a 700,000-man army to defend its sovereignty, all as Britain and France affirm that this time they won’t cower. They stand with Poland. The Fuhrer only slightly hesitates. On August 26th, he tells the Army High Command, “Get everything ready for morning of 7th
1:02:17 Greg Jackson? Mobilization Day, attack starting September 1st.” Late on August 30th, Foreign Minister Reben Trop meets the British Ambassador to Germany, Neville Henderson, in Berlin, and speed reads in German a 16-point ultimatum for Poland. Henderson catches fragments. Germany wants the return of the formerly German-ruled free city of Danzig, some points about German Poles. But Reben Trop refuses to hand over the document, then claims the offer is void because no Polish plenipotentiary showed up for this all-but-improv-ntu meeting. The Brit nearly punches him. But the truth is, this ultimatum was never meant to be taken.
1:02:59 Greg Jackson? Again, Adolf Hitler wants war. A little past noon on August 31st, the Fuhrer follows the previous night’s charade of peace talks by issuing his Directive Number 1 for the Conduct of War. It reads in part, “Now that all the political possibilities of disposing by peaceful means of the situation on the eastern frontier, which is intolerable for Germany, are exhausted, I have determined on a solution of force. The attack on Poland is to be carried out.” But Adolf won’t just invade. He and his cronies have one more propagandic trick up their field gray sleeves to feign justification for this invasion.
1:03:48 Greg Jackson? It's the evening of August 31st, 1939. We're only three miles from the Polish border, where SS officer Alfred Nowyaks is leading a squad of SS men dressed in civilian clothes to capture the 38-foot-tall radio tower in Gleivitz, Germany. Acting under orders from senior Nazi security and intelligence chief Reinhard Heidrich, their mission is simple: create a pretext for Germany to invade Poland.
1:04:17 Greg Jackson? Just after 8:00 PM, the SS squad seizes control of the radio. Their Polish speaker, Karl Hornak, takes the mic and, broadcasting over an emergency transmitter, claims to be part of the mythical Polish Freedom Committee.
1:04:32 Speaker 03 Attention! Here is Gleivitz! The radio station is in Polish hands!
1:04:38 Greg Jackson? He goes on for a few minutes, encouraging Poles to rise up against the Third Reich. At the same time, Alfred sets up what his intel chief calls the "canned goods", code for a staged corpse to sell the lie. The victim is a local ethnic Pole, Franceszek Pohnjuk.
1:04:59 Greg Jackson? Alfred will later testify at the Nuremberg Trials that: "I received this man and had him laid down at the entrance to the station. He was alive, but he was completely unconscious. I tried to open his eyes. I could not recognize by his eyes that he was alive, only by his breathing. I did not see the shot wounds, but a lot of blood was smeared across his face. He was in civilian clothes." Well, I'm not so sure Alfred told the whole truth. Other reports suggest that the Gestapo killed their victim before bringing him to Gleivitz. But whatever the gory details, the Polish man is placed by the door of the radio tower's building. Some will later call him the first official victim of World War II.
1:05:43 Greg Jackson? The SS men fire a few pistol shots. Then they vanish. Mission complete.
1:05:54 Greg Jackson? The Gleivitz Radio Station wasn't the only staged attack that night. To cite Alfred Nowyak's later testimony again, "Another SS unit killed a dozen or so men dressed in Polish uniforms to make it seem like Poland had attacked Germany." He claimed they were condemned criminals, but in truth, they were concentration camp victims. The Nazis used these staged incidents to claim that Germany is the victim of Polish aggression, that their move against Poland is merely a counterattack to protect their nation and ethnic Germans. To quote the Führer's proclamation to the German army issued amid the invasion the next day, September 1, 1939: "The Polish state has refused the peaceful settlement of relations which I desired
1:06:40 Greg Jackson? and has appealed to arms. Germans in Poland are persecuted with blood and terror and driven from their houses. A series of violations of the frontier intolerable to a great power prove that Poland is no longer willing to respect the frontier of the Reich. In order to put an end to this lunacy, I have no other choice than to meet force with force from now on. The German army will fight the battle for the honor and the vital rights of reborn Germany with hard determination. I expect that every soldier mindful of the great traditions of eternal German soldierry will ever remain conscious
1:07:25 Greg Jackson? that he is a representative of the National Socialist Greater Germany. Long live our people and our Reich." Good grief. No one's buying it. But it's under this guise that Nazi forces move on Poland.
1:07:46 Greg Jackson? It's 4:30 in the morning, September 1st, 1939. Less than 12 hours after Germany's fake attack on Gleifitz, and an old, turn-of-the-century, pre-dreadnot battleship, the Schleswig-Holstein, is spitting black smoke as it steams toward the free city of Danzig, or Gdansk in Polish. The city's two names alone reflect its complicated history with Germany and Poland. Under Prussia and German rule, for roughly a century before World War I, the Treaty of Versailles made the municipality a city-state that, though guaranteed independence by the League of Nations, is also tied to Poland in a number of respects. Crucially, this gives Poland access to its port,
1:08:28 Greg Jackson? the very port that the Schleswig-Holstein is now approaching, ostensibly on a diplomatic mission. But its real mission becomes clear soon enough. As the morning dawns, around 4:45 a.m., the Schleswig-Holstein opens fire on the Polish defenders on the Vestaplatz Peninsula in the harbor. The old battleship's 11-inch guns unleash salvo after salvo. Polish batteries answer in kind. And they won't stop answering for a week. Not until their ammunition is spent and their concrete bunkers are literally crumpled and knocked.
1:09:07 Greg Jackson? Across the nation, the Poles fight fiercely as the day wears on. Two days later, September 3rd, 1939, Britain and France issue separate ultimatums to Germany. Adolf Hitler rejects both. As such, both nations declare war on the Third Reich. Not that this amounts to much yet. Little action follows between the Allies of Britain and France and their Nazi foe over the next eight months. This is the so-called "phony war." Thus, the Allies' declaration won't save Poland. The Polish people battle tenaciously, but they lack the numbers and Germany's military tech, which wasn't even needed for that initial attack by sea. Adolf's 1.5 million soldiers, 2,000 tanks,
1:09:51 Greg Jackson? and 400 fighter planes sweep through Poland in a matter of weeks. The Soviet invasion from the east on September 17th only adds fuel to the fire, but the Nazi war machine moves like lightning. And that's intentional. Lightning war, or Blitzkrieg, is the Führer's plan to avoid getting stuck in trench warfare. The invasion of Poland also marks a new development in policy toward Jews. See, before the invasion, forced immigration was the goal. Now, with fewer routes out of expanded Nazi territory, a new brutal solution emerges. Led by Heinrich Himmler, the Einsatzgruppen, or SS task forces,
1:10:33 Greg Jackson? follow army units and systematically execute Jewish citizens to “purify” the Reichslibenzahn. It’s horrific, but I’ll spare you those details today. That’s a story for another time.
1:10:50 Greg Jackson? But reflecting on today’s tale, we’ve seen that between 1934 and 1939, the Führer did indeed make metaphorical frogs of European leaders as they failed to grasp just how insatiable his lust for expansion, powered by dreams of “Gross Deutschland” and “Libenzahn,” truly was. Repeatedly, they failed to grasp just how dishonest Adolf could be. Sadly, as well-intentioned as Neville Chamberlain might have been, his appeasement was the wrong approach. Instead, it was Winston Churchill who got it right, realizing that this isn’t a time for peace, but war. But as the British Parliament moves its seemingly prescient cigar-chewing bulldog, Winston Churchill, from the back bench to the position of Prime Minister,
1:11:36 Greg Jackson? as the Nazi war machine blitzkriegs through nations, drops bombs on Britain and hundreds of thousands of Allied troops pray to God for a miracle on the beaches of Dunkirk, what does this second total war in the first half of the 20th century, now spreading across Europe, mean for the nation that this podcast is really about, the United States? That’s exactly the question we’ll start to unravel next time.
1:12:06 Greg Jackson? History That Doesn't Suck is created and hosted by me, Greg Jackson. Sir Winston Churchill, read by Tim Wells. Episode researched and written by Greg Jackson and Riley Nivella. Production by Airship. Sound design by Molly Bach. Theme music composed by Greg Jackson. Arrangement and additional composition by Lindsey Graham of Airship. For bibliography of all primary and secondary sources consulted in writing this episode, visit htdspodcast.com.
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1:13:43 Greg Jackson? HTDS is supported by fans at htdspodcast.com/membership. My gratitude to you kind souls providing funding to help us keep going. Thank you. And a special thanks to our patrons whose monthly gift puts them at producer status. Adam Goran, Ahmed Chapman, Amy and Ross Hensman, Andrew Nissen, Andrew Sherwin, Anna M. Huta, Art Lang, Baby Nico, Bob Stinnan, Bonnie Brooks, Brian Gavigan, Ryan Boils, Brian Goodson, Bruce Hibbert, Kayden Hallitz, Charles Plendenin, Charles Starkey, Charlie Christopher Merchant Christopher Lyle Christopher Pullman Christopher Young Cody Brown Colleen Martin Colin Ferris Pennington Connor Hogan Craig Burhost Dan G. Daniel Beecham Daniel Lucana Darren Chambers Daryl the Kid Lovell
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1:15:13 Greg Jackson? Ken Culver Kim R. Kimberly Pruitt Kristen Pratt Kyle Decker L. Paul Goringer Laura Norman Lawrence Newbauer Linda Cunningham Mark D. Worrell Mark Ellis Marcia Smith Mason Glenn Matt Siegel Michael Longus Michael Sullivan Nick Caprell Nicholas Powell Owen W. Sedlak Paul Hugenroth Philip May Randy Keane Rich Ruckel Rick Brown Rob Drasovich Robert Shelton Brock Gay Ryan Fogelman Sam Holtzman Sarah Prescott Sarah Traywood Scott Hurst Shane Smith Shannon Hoagland Sharon Feasen Sean Baines Sean Collins Stacy Ritter Steve Williams The Creepy Girl Thomas Churchill Thomas Matthew Edwards Thomas Sabbath Tim and Sarah Turner Todd Curran Tom Bostafka Travis Cox
1:15:58 Greg Jackson? Walter M. Ames Wesley McKeef William Durham William Curry William Thompson And Zach Jackson Join me in two weeks Or I'd like to tell you a story
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