Lisa Kudrow | Club Random Classics with Bill Maher

In this Classic Episode of Club Random, Bill Maher and Lisa Kudrow riff on bad behavior on sitcom sets, the stupidest thing Bill ever did in show business, Bill’s favorite show of Lisa’s (it’s not Friends), how The Andy Griffith Show made Bill join PETA. They also discuss Lisa’s most awkward audition ever, and whether or not you have be insane to be a great actor. This episode first aired July 10, 2022 Support our Advertisers: High blood pressure can’t wait. Get 20% off at https://www.120life.com and use code RANDOM Subscribe to the Club Random YouTube channel: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/c/clubrandompodcast?sub_confirmation=1⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch episodes ad-free – subscribe to Bill Maher’s Substack: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://billmaher.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you listen: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/ClubRandom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Buy Club Random Merch: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://clubrandom.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices ABOUT CLUB RANDOM Bill Maher rewrites the rules of podcasting the way he did in television in this series of one on one, hour long conversations with a wide variety of unexpected guests in the undisclosed location called Club Random. There’s a whole big world out there that isn’t about politics and Bill and his guests—from Bill Burr and Jerry Seinfeld to Jordan Peterson, Quentin Tarantino and Neil DeGrasse Tyson—talk about all of it. For advertising opportunities please email: [email protected] ABOUT BILL MAHER Bill Maher was the host of “Politically Incorrect” (Comedy Central, ABC) from 1993-2002, and for the last fourteen years on HBO’s “Real Time,” Maher’s combination of unflinching honesty and big laughs have garnered him 40 Emmy nominations. Maher won his first Emmy in 2014 as executive producer for the HBO series, “VICE.” In October of 2008, this same combination was on display in Maher’s uproarious and unprecedented swipe at organized religion, “Religulous.” Maher has written five bestsellers: “True Story,” “Does Anybody Have a Problem with That? Politically Incorrect’s Greatest Hits,” “When You Ride Alone, You Ride with Bin Laden,” “New Rules: Polite Musings from a Timid Observer,” and most recently, “The New New Rules: A Funny Look at How Everybody But Me Has Their Head Up Their Ass.” FOLLOW CLUB RANDOM https://www.clubrandom.com https://www.facebook.com/Club-Random-101776489118185 https://twitter.com/clubrandom_ https://www.instagram.com/clubrandompodcast https://www.tiktok.com/@clubrandompodcast FOLLOW BILL MAHER https://www.billmaher.com https://twitter.com/billmaher https://www.instagram.com/billmaher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:15Bill Maher?

  In our next episode at Club Random Classics, we revisit my conversation with the one and only Lisa Kudrow. You know her from Friends, but you haven't heard the audition story so awkward it almost ended her career. We dig into sitcom madness, jaw-dropping backstage stories, and a surprisingly deep chat about acting. I even confess which Lisa series I secretly love, and it isn't what you think.

• 1:44Bill Maher?

  Oh, wait. We're not supposed to hug because of the mics. Can you still hear it?

• 1:48Speaker 04

  And the Omicron. I said, "Oh, no, I don't hug because of Omicron." And then I forgot.

• 1:52Bill Maher?

  I'm full of monkeypox.

• 1:55Bill Maher?

  No, that's the old Dean Martin show. Where he didn't know who the guest was. Do you remember that?

• 2:01Speaker 04

  No.

• 2:01Bill Maher?

  You don't? You don't remember the Dean Martin show?

• 2:03Speaker 04

  No.

• 2:04Bill Maher?

  Really?

• 2:05Speaker 04

  Really?

• 2:05Bill Maher?

  You're too young for that?

• 2:06Speaker 04

  Well, I might be a little. Unless my parents watched it. I don't think they did.

• 2:11Bill Maher?

  I bet you your mother did. My mother had such a pussy boner for Dean Martin in that show. He was a very attractive guy.

• 2:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:18Bill Maher?

  And he, and of course, that character he played, sort of a character who was like drunk. He really wasn't drunk, but he did really.

• 2:25Speaker 04

  Oh, he really wasn't, ever?

• 2:27Bill Maher?

  No.

• 2:27Speaker 04

  Really?

• 2:27Bill Maher?

  And he, but he really did only show up for the taping. So they were, he had these, these three broads called the Gold Diggers. Something you would never.

• 2:36Speaker 04

  Wait, no, that, I, sounds familiar.

• 2:38Bill Maher?

  Yes. And they would lead him, literally lead him and prop him up in front of the card, which he would read and fuck up, which made it funnier.

• 2:46Speaker 04

  Right, right, right.

• 2:47Bill Maher?

  You know, and there was one section of the show where he didn't, he walked, it was at the piano with his piano guy tinkling and, and it was like, and the door would open. It's Ella Fitzgerald, you are Sammy Davis. He had no idea. I really think that was true. I did know, I mean, I've been asking from the beginning. I said, if I could get you here, what hipper person for this little, uh, hipper place? What? I'm the biggest. You didn't, why? Why would you think I wouldn't want you? I mean, I would never want anyone here, first of all, in my house.

• 3:22Speaker 04

  That's true.

• 3:22Bill Maher?

  Who I didn't adore.

• 3:23Speaker 04

  Oh, my God, I'm so happy to hear that.

• 3:26Bill Maher?

  Well, why did you come?

• 3:27Speaker 04

  I feel like I'm such a big disappointment.

• 3:28Bill Maher?

  What, disappointment?

• 3:30Speaker 04

  No, because I'm in awe of you.

• 3:31Bill Maher?

  Oh.

• 3:32Speaker 04

  I adore you.

• 3:33Bill Maher?

  See, that's why.

• 3:34Speaker 04

  But I don't assume it's a two-way street.

• 3:36Bill Maher?

  Of course.

• 3:36Speaker 04

  I live in the real world.

• 3:38Bill Maher?

  Oh, no, this is my home. This is, I mean, I don't, this is only for fun.

• 3:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:44Bill Maher?

  This whole thing. I mean, I did.

• 3:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, are you liking it?

• 3:46Bill Maher?

  Oh, my God. I mean, look, I'm not gonna lie. I spent quite a bit of money so that we could, you know, set this place. I mean, it's almost like a reality show.

• 3:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:57Bill Maher?

  Combined with a podcast, but that's the way I wanted it, so that we could have, you know, I mean, there's a lot of podcasts and I find them, some are great, but they're, you know, there's a big penis mic in your face.

• 4:09Speaker 04

  I haven't done that one.

• 4:12Bill Maher?

  You know, there's a giant.

• 4:14Speaker 04

  I've done the one with the big flower in your face.

• 4:19Bill Maher?

  What's that?

• 4:19Speaker 04

  My vagina.

• 4:21Bill Maher?

  Yeah, I've seen those too.

• 4:22Speaker 04

  I went too far. I went too.

• 4:24Bill Maher?

  Well.

• 4:25Speaker 04

  Out of.

• 4:25Bill Maher?

  I wanted just to be like the way I really am, except there's no music. That always, you know, of course, we can't while we're talking. But it just feels like there is something missing and everything else feels right. It's just us. There's nobody else in the room. There's liquor and these club cigarettes. I don't know what they're putting in these things. But I'll tell you, these are.

• 4:47Speaker 04

  It's too bad you're not allowed to know.

• 4:49Bill Maher?

  I know.

• 4:50Speaker 04

  That's the surprise.

• 4:50Bill Maher?

  Well, cloves. Do you know, I know you're a history buff. Do you know anything about the history of cloves?

• 4:56Speaker 04

  No.

• 4:57Bill Maher?

  Well, make it up.

• 4:58Speaker 04

  Me? Make it up?

• 4:59Bill Maher?

  Yeah.

• 5:00Speaker 04

  Oh, okay. Well, tobacco was for export, so they couldn't afford to let regular folks smoke it.

• 5:06Bill Maher?

  Isn't that interesting?

• 5:10Speaker 04

  But that sounded possible, right?

• 5:11Bill Maher?

  So incredibly real. Like if you had, if I had not set it up, like make it up, I would have just gone with it.

• 5:19Speaker 04

  I could make up anything.

• 5:20Bill Maher?

  Yeah. Many of us could, you know. When the kids feel bad about not knowing shit, I always try to comfort them by saying, you know, we all don't know, like, I mean, when you think of the infinite amount of things that you could possibly know in this world. Even the smartest person does not even know 0.1%.

• 5:41Speaker 04

  Right.

• 5:42Bill Maher?

  Yeah. We're almost fully ignorant of everything, but we, you know, obviously. Some people more than others.

• 5:50Speaker 04

  No, and then the things you learn, you don't remember. So, that's too bad.

• 5:55Bill Maher?

  That's true too.

• 5:55Speaker 04

  That part's really too bad.

• 5:57Bill Maher?

  I think that has something to do with the cloves.

• 6:02Bill Maher?

  I don't know. I can't make a direct correlation, but.

• 6:05Speaker 04

  Well, you know, now, well, no, they're doing studies with cloves and cognition.

• 6:10Bill Maher?

  Can I make you a drink or?

• 6:12Speaker 04

  No, I have water.

• 6:14Bill Maher?

  You, that's all you want?

• 6:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:15Bill Maher?

  You're a.

• 6:16Speaker 04

  I know it's 5 o'clock.

• 6:17Bill Maher?

  You're abst.

• 6:18Speaker 04

  So it's okay.

• 6:18Bill Maher?

  It's 5 o'clock somewhere. Oh, wait, here.

• 6:23Bill Maher?

  Are you abstemious?

• 6:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't drink a lot.

• 6:29Speaker 04

  You said abstemious, so I thought, okay.

• 6:31Bill Maher?

  Abstemious.

• 6:32Speaker 04

  Abstaming, abstaining? Abstaneous?

• 6:35Bill Maher?

  Uh, abstemious, doesn't that mean you, yeah, you're...

• 6:39Speaker 04

  Are you? No.

• 6:42Bill Maher?

  With drinking, the only time I drink really is here.

• 6:46Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 6:48Bill Maher?

  Yes, I used to drink, um, you know, like an Irishman. I was never a drunk, although I certainly have been drunk many times, but

• 6:59Bill Maher?

  I drank irishly, you know, which is not good for your liver, I'm sure.

• 7:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:04Bill Maher?

  And, you know, I don't want to be, look like Ted Kennedy.

• 7:09Bill Maher?

  You know, so I, you know, especially now that he's dead, but even before, you know, that kind of like...

• 7:14Speaker 04

  No, it takes a toll.

• 7:16Bill Maher?

  Especially if you're Irish.

• 7:18Speaker 04

  Really?

• 7:19Bill Maher?

  Well, sure, because you're lighter.

• 7:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:22Bill Maher?

  You know, it's like the opposite of black don't crack.

• 7:25Speaker 04

  But European.

• 7:26Bill Maher?

  Cracks the most.

• 7:27Speaker 04

  European, all Europeans are pretty white.

• 7:34Bill Maher?

  But more so the...

• 7:37Bill Maher?

  Well, like the beautiful people of the Nordic countries somehow are even further north, but they have that beautiful olive skin, usually.

• 7:46Speaker 04

  They do?

• 7:47Bill Maher?

  Yes.

• 7:48Speaker 04

  Olive?

• 7:49Bill Maher?

  Yes.

• 7:49Speaker 04

  Wait, why doesn't that sound even a little bit right to me? You mean the like blonds, the Scandinavian people?

• 7:55Bill Maher?

  Yes, Scandinavian, of course. They don't look like the Gaelic people, my people, they're not ruddy.

• 8:01Speaker 04

  Wait a minute, what's ruddy? What is ruddy? What's ruddy?

• 8:04Bill Maher?

  Ruddy is red.

• 8:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's what I thought.

• 8:08Bill Maher?

  Well, that's, think of somebody like, uh, you know...

• 8:12Speaker 04

  Ted Kennedy, yeah.

• 8:15Bill Maher?

  Right.

• 8:16Speaker 04

  I'll throw a name out.

• 8:17Bill Maher?

  But not, but not Jack Kennedy, he looked more Scandinavian. Always? He was just a good-looking guy.

• 8:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:27Bill Maher?

  It's funny how in families sometimes there's just, you know, siblings and one of them is the good-looking one.

• 8:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:34Bill Maher?

  You know, Bobby...

• 8:35Speaker 04

  Well, he was good-looking.

• 8:36Bill Maher?

  Not like Jack, he was a little...

• 8:39Speaker 04

  Was he that good-looking, though?

• 8:40Bill Maher?

  He was just, he was sexier because he was grittier.

• 8:43Speaker 04

  I guess, not my type.

• 8:45Bill Maher?

  I think that's not your type.

• 8:47Speaker 04

  A Jack Kennedy? No.

• 8:49Bill Maher?

  But a Bobby Kennedy.

• 8:51Speaker 04

  Was a little cuter to me.

• 8:53Bill Maher?

  Physically cuter?

• 8:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:54Bill Maher?

  See, most people would say not that. They would say the reverse.

• 8:58Speaker 04

  Right.

• 8:58Bill Maher?

  And I even think that you're, you know, as a woman who are deeper and feel things on a deeper level. Well, it's true, especially in this subject. It's like, the physical part is not as important to you. I think something about Bobby Kennedy is getting to you in your deep woman way.

• 9:18Speaker 04

  Maybe. But here, I misled. I was just comparing. But none of the Kennedys are my type.

• 9:24Bill Maher?

  None of the Kennedys?

• 9:25Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 9:26Bill Maher?

  Because of their look or because of their actions?

• 9:29Speaker 04

  Their teeth.

• 9:31Bill Maher?

  Their teeth? No.

• 9:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:34Bill Maher?

  What?

• 9:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:35Bill Maher?

  What's wrong with their teeth?

• 9:36Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 9:37Bill Maher?

  That's the British who have the bad teeth.

• 9:39Speaker 04

  No, it's not that they had bad teeth, but I didn't like their teeth. I just didn't like it. I don't, uh-uh. No. They all looked like...

• 9:48Bill Maher?

  And did this inflect, I mean infect, your view of their politics?

• 9:55Speaker 04

  No.

• 9:55Bill Maher?

  No.

• 9:56Speaker 04

  Well, I was, well, I was...

• 9:58Bill Maher?

  You would not vote for someone because of their teeth, Lisa Kudrow, would you?

• 10:03Speaker 04

  Well, I don't like Bill Clinton's teeth. No, but I, um...

• 10:10Speaker 04

  No, but I was born when John Kennedy was killed.

• 10:16Bill Maher?

  63?

• 10:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:18Bill Maher?

  I was seven, yeah.

• 10:20Speaker 04

  And I was five when Bobby Kennedy was killed. So, no, no. I mean, I didn't have politics about them. But my parents were huge fans.

• 10:29Bill Maher?

  So are mine.

• 10:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:31Bill Maher?

  But this is my father, again, Irish, Catholic, and you know, I mean... And my father, my grandfather, had a full brogue.

• 10:42Speaker 04

  Really?

• 10:42Bill Maher?

  Yes.

• 10:43Speaker 04

  Oh, he was from...

• 10:45Bill Maher?

  No, but he was, I guess, second generation.

• 10:47Speaker 04

  Raised with everybody, yeah.

• 10:49Bill Maher?

  But this is, I mean, a man I never met. But it's funny, if I had done your show instead of Skip Gates's show.

• 10:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:56Bill Maher?

  We would have already.

• 10:56Speaker 04

  You did? Did I see it? Did I watch all of the shows? I guess I don't remember them. When did you do it?

• 11:03Bill Maher?

  I would say four years ago.

• 11:05Speaker 04

  Oh, shoot.

• 11:06Bill Maher?

  Something like that.

• 11:06Speaker 04

  I'll re-watch it. Look, I sound like, "I'll re-watch it."

• 11:11Bill Maher?

  I mean, but your show was fantastic. I mean, it's a great idea for a show. And the way you make it into a...

• 11:17Speaker 04

  I wish it were my idea.

• 11:19Bill Maher?

  As a history major, I appreciate it.

• 11:21Speaker 04

  Oh, you're a history major?

• 11:23Bill Maher?

  I was in college.

• 11:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:24Bill Maher?

  You know.

• 11:25Speaker 04

  That's a lot more history than...

• 11:28Bill Maher?

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:29Speaker 04

  Anyone learns in high school, right?

• 11:31Bill Maher?

  I love history, and I love when you weave it in.

• 11:34Speaker 04

  Yeah. No, because that's why I loved this show. Because it's history, but it's the personal stories.

• 11:39Bill Maher?

  Right.

• 11:40Speaker 04

  That drive it home. It's the actual effects of history. Like, why can't they teach it?

• 11:46Bill Maher?

  But when I did his show, this, my genealogy for Skip. I mean, the star of it was my grandfather, who, again, I never met. But he was a, he was a baller. He was a macho guy. He ran the Boatsman's Union.

• 12:02Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 12:03Bill Maher?

  In New Jersey and New York. You know, the circled day line of the stuff that went around Manhattan. And this is in the days when the Irish ran New York.

• 12:10Speaker 04

  Right.

• 12:11Bill Maher?

  Every cop, every fireman, you know, Officer Mike, yeah. So...

• 12:15Speaker 04

  And this isn't part of the Teamsters because that's, it's...

• 12:17Bill Maher?

  No, no, that's Truck.

• 12:19Speaker 04

  It's nautical.

• 12:20Bill Maher?

  Yes, it's nautical.

• 12:21Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 12:21Bill Maher?

  And it was also what happened, I guess, on the ports. Because he had a headline from 1920. And it was, "My grandfather called a strike and was brought up to the White House because it had to be settled because this was the port of New York."

• 12:37Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 12:37Bill Maher?

  But he was a union captain who got, in the days when, I mean, they, what, what, what unions had to fight for back then was like, you know.

• 12:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:46Bill Maher?

  "We would like a 14-hour workday, and we're not..." And you could only whip them if that, you know, it was just crazy what he had to fight for.

• 12:55Speaker 04

  And you don't get to choose who we marry. Yeah.

• 12:58Bill Maher?

  Yeah, crazy shit.

• 12:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:59Bill Maher?

  So that was my grandfather.

• 13:01Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 13:01Bill Maher?

  William Marr also. My, I would have been William Marr III if I had been confirmed in the Catholic Church because I would have been William Aloysius Marr. That was my grandfather's name and my father's name. And I was supposed to be William Aloysius Marr. But you get your confirmation, your middle name, your confirmation, the Catholics.

• 13:22Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 13:22Bill Maher?

  And I never made it that far.

• 13:23Speaker 04

  I didn't know that.

• 13:24Bill Maher?

  Yeah.

• 13:25Speaker 04

  But you're still, is, that's not your given name, like the birth certificate doesn't say?

• 13:31Bill Maher?

  I have no middle name. Cause you're, cause you're supposed to get it at thirteen.

• 13:34Speaker 04

  Wait.

• 13:35Bill Maher?

  You're supposed to get it at thirteen when you're confirmed. It's a big thing in the Catholic Church. At seven, you have your first communion. That traumatized me like I can't even tell you. And then thirteen, you're confirmed. I don't know what, it's so just like the bar mitzvah.

• 13:49Speaker 04

  Why did it traumatize you?

• 13:51Bill Maher?

  What? You know, nuns, fucking sadists and, and, you know.

• 13:55Speaker 04

  They were.

• 13:56Bill Maher?

  Well, of course.

• 13:57Speaker 04

  Well, some of them are nice, I assume. On trouble with angels, they were really nice. But I mean.

• 14:02Bill Maher?

  Well, nuns are married to Christ and apparently he's not putting out.

• 14:06Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 14:06Bill Maher?

  Because they have a kind of anger issues that you only get when you've never been laid. I don't, I don't know what it was, and I was seven years old. All I know is one of them one day, for example, this, this one sticks in my mind, said, uh, you know, we're in the church and they're doing their shit up there and I guess I was like, you know. And she said, "The boy who's slumping is going to go to hell."

• 14:31Speaker 04

  Oh, wow.

• 14:32Bill Maher?

  They did shit like that.

• 14:33Speaker 04

  Wait a minute. Okay, but I thought your mom, your mom.

• 14:37Bill Maher?

  Jewish.

• 14:38Speaker 04

  Is Jewish.

• 14:38Bill Maher?

  Right. That I never even knew until I was thirteen because I was so traumatized by going to church. I didn't even think, "Why doesn't mom come?" I don't know. She just never does. It never crossed my mind to ask. I just wanted to get out of it.

• 14:52Speaker 04

  But I thought it was tricky for a Catholic to marry a Jew.

• 14:55Bill Maher?

  It was.

• 14:56Speaker 04

  So how, how did that all happen?

• 14:58Bill Maher?

  Especially in 1951 when they did. It was like an interracial marriage, not even today.

• 15:02Speaker 04

  Right.

• 15:03Bill Maher?

  Like twenty years ago.

• 15:04Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, it was in the sixties too, and even into the seventies, it was sort of starting to get like, wow.

• 15:10Bill Maher?

  Did you watch Mad Men?

• 15:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:12Bill Maher?

  Remember the first season or second? There was a plot line of, um, he goes out with the girl from the Jewish department store.

• 15:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:22Bill Maher?

  I mean, they had their own, Jews had their own department store.

• 15:25Speaker 04

  Or owned a very successful department store.

• 15:28Bill Maher?

  Right, but I mean, like, I think Gimbel's.

• 15:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:31Bill Maher?

  The real Gimbel's was that.

• 15:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:33Bill Maher?

  I think in a day when, what, what, what?

• 15:35Speaker 04

  Oh, so that Jews would have a place to shop?

• 15:38Bill Maher?

  Yes, well, the, just the idea that this was the early 60s and Gentiles and Jews shopped separately?

• 15:45Speaker 04

  Oh, I wasn't aware of that. Wait, I wasn't aware of that. I wasn't aware of that. Are you sure? History major?

• 15:51Bill Maher?

  I'm not sure that a Jew couldn't walk into.

• 15:54Speaker 04

  Macy's.

• 15:55Bill Maher?

  Macy's. I guess so, yes.

• 15:57Speaker 04

  And Bloomingdale's.

• 15:58Bill Maher?

  Yes, but it seemed to me like he was cross, like, he was, he was, of course, cheating on his wife, as he always was.

• 16:06Speaker 04

  Right.

• 16:06Bill Maher?

  But also, he was sort of like crossing into a different world, is the way they sort of presented it.

• 16:11Speaker 04

  Right.

• 16:11Bill Maher?

  And I think people don't realize how much Jew and Gentile, you know, I mean, when Kennedy ran in 60, it was a big deal that he was Catholic.

• 16:20Speaker 04

  Right. Yeah, yeah.

• 16:22Bill Maher?

  You know?

• 16:22Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 16:24Bill Maher?

  This country is always changing, as people are always changing and growing, and...

• 16:29Speaker 04

  And getting used to each other's differences.

• 16:32Bill Maher?

  Progressing. These people who cannot help themselves from looking backward and saying, "You know what? You people were so benighted back then, and I, you know what? If you had lived back then with us, you would have been the same asshole."

• 16:51Speaker 04

  Right.

• 16:52Bill Maher?

  History is very much like humans. It's like looking at your own life and going, "What a dick I was at eight."

• 16:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:58Bill Maher?

  "Oh, I can't believe I spent all that time thinking about baseball cards. Dumbass." You know, it's childish.

• 17:07Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 17:09Bill Maher?

  Right?

• 17:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, but what's childish? But what part's childish?

• 17:14Bill Maher?

  The childish part is making, is feeling superior.

• 17:18Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 17:19Bill Maher?

  You are woker now. But it's not you are better. You just are living in a different time.

• 17:25Speaker 04

  Right.

• 17:26Bill Maher?

  You would have been just like us.

• 17:28Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 17:29Bill Maher?

  We all wore big hair in the eighties.

• 17:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:34Bill Maher?

  Right?

• 17:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:36Bill Maher?

  I.

• 17:37Speaker 04

  I don't know if my hair was that big, but, because, you know, I wasn't that in step. But, yeah.

• 17:42Bill Maher?

  Where's that?

• 17:43Speaker 04

  It's true.

• 17:44Bill Maher?

  You're not in step, you mean you were?

• 17:46Speaker 04

  With big hair.

• 17:47Bill Maher?

  No, but in step in general, you were an outsider, you're saying?

• 17:51Speaker 04

  I was, yeah, a little moody, you know? I was, yeah, a little bit.

• 17:55Bill Maher?

  Moody?

• 17:56Speaker 04

  You know, in doing eighties.

• 17:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, starting groundlings and figuring out my comedic voice and, you know, all of that was the most important thing ever. So, that's all I was thinking about. I really didn't want to look like absolutely everybody else. Because I didn't think I'd do well if I was trying to, but, um, no, but, I mean, getting back to what you were saying, though, because I was talking about this, like, in the context of who do you think you are? Because we're going to be on soon and, and I was saying, you know,

• 18:32Speaker 04

  it, I think it's really important to know our history and understand how it informed, how our society worked.

• 18:40Bill Maher?

  Yes.

• 18:41Speaker 04

  And what was tolerated. That, you know, there were people, people thought it was perfectly okay to own another human being, you know? That's.

• 18:51Bill Maher?

  But, you know, let's have some context to that. They thought that everywhere in the world.

• 18:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, but not thirty years after everywhere else in the world stopped doing it.

• 19:01Bill Maher?

  You're talking about America.

• 19:02Speaker 04

  And in America and the South.

• 19:03Bill Maher?

  Yeah, we were, we've been, we have brought up the rear on a number of issues.

• 19:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:08Bill Maher?

  That's one of them. Uh, we, eighty countries, I think, have had a woman leader.

• 19:13Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 19:14Bill Maher?

  We have not, you know? Uh, universal healthcare, most of the big boy countries have a much better. System, you know.

• 19:22Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 19:23Bill Maher?

  Nothing is perfect in that realm.

• 19:25Speaker 00

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• 19:42Speaker 01

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• 20:25Bill Maher?

  But, and don't get me started on health.

• 20:27Speaker 04

  But remember when medicine wasn't a, wasn't big business? Because that in the 70s, it wasn't. It was still like the healing arts.

• 20:36Bill Maher?

  Well, we, I mean, healthcare is a mess in this country for many reasons. But the top two probably would be, for me, yes, the corporate element of it.

• 20:47Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:47Bill Maher?

  The fact that a hospital is run very much like an airline.

• 20:51Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:51Bill Maher?

  They don't want any empty seats on an airplane and they don't want any empty beds. That's why when there's a crisis, they're overrun. They should have excess, like, space, but that would hurt the bottom line.

• 21:04Speaker 04

  Right.

• 21:05Bill Maher?

  So that's huge. And the other huge thing, I think, is that the people, the people, are just so incredibly unhealthy to begin with. And that is absolutely something I lay at the doorstep of the medical establishment, who doesn't have the balls to tell them what's, what they should and shouldn't do. And of course, the, how cozy the pharmaceutical industry is with the medical industry. And I mean, I'm not saying it's all corruption. I mean, obviously, COVID was a real thing and I have many qualms about how we handled it, but, I mean, that's not anybody's fault. But if the population wasn't so fundamentally unhealthy to begin with, we would not have devastated this country the way it did.

• 21:50Bill Maher?

  We had a worse outcome than any other country.

• 21:52Speaker 04

  Oh, we did?

• 21:53Bill Maher?

  Yes.

• 21:54Speaker 04

  It turns out that we did proportionally?

• 21:56Bill Maher?

  I think so.

• 21:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:57Bill Maher?

  I mean, I seem to remember that headline a couple of months ago.

• 22:00Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 22:01Bill Maher?

  I mean, I'm sure there are variations and per capita and blah, blah, blah. But, I mean, it was over a million people. And of course, that's a fuzzy stat also because they don't really make any differentiation between dying of COVID and dying with COVID.

• 22:16Speaker 04

  Right.

• 22:16Bill Maher?

  And anyone with medical sophistication understands that everything in medicine is a combination of factors.

• 22:22Speaker 04

  I'm starting to hear more and more about personalized medicine, like a doctor who's practicing personalized medicine.

• 22:29Bill Maher?

  What does that mean?

• 22:30Speaker 04

  So that not just going by looking into what else about your physical makeup and your biology might be contributing to whatever symptoms or what's going on, instead of just treating the symptoms.

• 22:46Bill Maher?

  Well, yeah, I mean.

• 22:48Speaker 04

  Or calling it this disease, not that syndrome, because there's other things informing it.

• 22:54Bill Maher?

  I mean, that's a lot of holistic medicine.

• 22:56Speaker 04

  Right.

• 22:56Bill Maher?

  What I would call holistic medicine.

• 22:58Speaker 04

  Right, well, that's now they're calling it personalized because they don't want to sound.

• 23:02Bill Maher?

  Right, they don't want to sound like hippies.

• 23:04Speaker 04

  Right.

• 23:05Bill Maher?

  That's that word that, right, that's that's quack stuff.

• 23:09Speaker 04

  Right, you're not allowed to say that.

• 23:10Bill Maher?

  I mean, some of it is. I'll tell you an interesting thing about, and I have had a holistic doctor who I think changed my life as much as anybody, and I'm very grateful. I, he absolutely knows that I don't agree with everything.

• 23:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:24Bill Maher?

  And I also definitely want a M.D. doctor also. I think you need both to balance.

• 23:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, you get, you might get more information.

• 23:33Bill Maher?

  Right.

• 23:34Speaker 04

  Too, that you can decide about.

• 23:36Bill Maher?

  But, so, like, you know, I got, started to get into it, this is like almost 20 years ago. And, you know, everything is super.

• 23:46Bill Maher?

  Natural, which I totally get that. I remember the first time we went out socially. There was one restaurant in all of L.A. He would go to that was pure enough.

• 23:54Speaker 04

  Wait, who would?

• 23:55Bill Maher?

  This is my holistic doctor.

• 23:56Speaker 04

  Oh, OK.

• 23:57Bill Maher?

  So like, and you know, he just wouldn't have anything. You know, no bread, no, like, down the line.

• 24:06Bill Maher?

  Natural, natural, natural. No antibiotics, of course, no pharmaceuticals, no this, no that, no sugar, nothing. But then, very big on colonics.

• 24:17Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 24:19Bill Maher?

  Which may or may not.

• 24:21Speaker 04

  I remember that trend.

• 24:23Bill Maher?

  It's, I don't think it's a trend, I think, but point being like, if you're like, natural, natural, natural. When you think about sticking water up your ass, the word that comes to mind is not natural. It's not like if I was just standing around with a garden hose in my hand, I would absentmindedly just stick it up my ass, you know? So for everything to be natural, natural, natural, and also stick water up your ass.

• 24:46Speaker 04

  Right.

• 24:48Speaker 04

  No, no, it's not something that naturally occurs. Right.

• 24:52Bill Maher?

  But it also might be very good for you.

• 24:54Speaker 04

  I don't know if it's really good for you.

• 24:55Bill Maher?

  Nobody knows anything for sure in medicine.

• 24:58Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 24:59Bill Maher?

  Nobody, that's, I'm always trying to push this point.

• 25:02Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 25:02Bill Maher?

  Just, you know what? I accept where we are, I have to. What could I do else? We're, we're in the year 2022.

• 25:09Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 25:10Bill Maher?

  In 2052, they're not going to look back and go, boy, in 2022, we pretty much had it all figured out medically, didn't we? We were just crossing the Ts and dotting the As.

• 25:19Speaker 04

  They're gonna do what they do every seven years, which is, yeah, we were wrong about.

• 25:24Bill Maher?

  Right.

• 25:25Speaker 04

  That.

• 25:25Bill Maher?

  That's what I always say.

• 25:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:27Bill Maher?

  Just don't give me the attitude of, just do what we say. Because when have we ever been wrong?

• 25:33Speaker 04

  Right.

• 25:33Bill Maher?

  All the time.

• 25:34Speaker 04

  All the time.

• 25:35Bill Maher?

  You're, and.

• 25:36Speaker 04

  All the time.

• 25:36Bill Maher?

  And it's not mostly your fault? It's just, again, like the year we live in.

• 25:40Speaker 04

  No, but just be honest.

• 25:42Bill Maher?

  Be honest.

• 25:42Speaker 04

  We don't really know.

• 25:44Bill Maher?

  Right.

• 25:44Speaker 04

  But what's recommended, and there are some studies that show this might work. They're associative studies, not cause and effect, so we can't know absolutely. But here's all I have to offer. Yeah, go for it. But don't say, like they did. No, honey, for your pregnancy, you need to take D E S. For, for, you know, you're pregnant and we need, you're nauseous, so you'll just take.

• 26:05Bill Maher?

  What's D E S?

• 26:06Speaker 04

  You know, D E S. This estrogen.

• 26:08Bill Maher?

  Right.

• 26:08Speaker 04

  That caused all kinds of reproductive problems in the, in the kids that were born.

• 26:12Bill Maher?

  Did you take it?

• 26:13Speaker 04

  No.

• 26:14Bill Maher?

  Good.

• 26:14Speaker 04

  No, not me. I'm in my mom's generation, your mom's generation. And, you know, I do know a lot of people who have reproductive problems because of it.

• 26:24Bill Maher?

  But they gave it to all the women?

• 26:26Speaker 04

  No.

• 26:26Bill Maher?

  Back then?

• 26:27Speaker 04

  No, but they were offering it a lot.

• 26:29Bill Maher?

  Right.

• 26:30Speaker 04

  Just like in the twenties, they were offering women, offering, insisting. Yeah, you need, um, some opium. I mean, we have to give you.

• 26:40Bill Maher?

  Yeah.

• 26:41Speaker 04

  Because you're hysterical.

• 26:43Bill Maher?

  Right.

• 26:43Speaker 04

  You're going through the change and you're hysterical. Or you just had a baby, so you're hysterical.

• 26:47Bill Maher?

  Right.

• 26:48Speaker 04

  And yet all these people, it's the same, it's the same crisis we're having.

• 26:54Bill Maher?

  Yes.

• 26:54Speaker 04

  And we had it in the twenties. It all happened. And then the government made it illegal.

• 26:59Bill Maher?

  And?

• 27:00Speaker 04

  And they went to heroin. You had the exact same problem. We just repeated history.

• 27:06Bill Maher?

  And in a hundred years, this will be the twenties that they're talking about. With the same attitude that we're talking about the nineteen twenties.

• 27:16Speaker 04

  Right.

• 27:17Bill Maher?

  Things will seem incredibly primitive in their thinking and just very wrong.

• 27:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 27:23Bill Maher?

  I mean, simple things like they very often misdiagnose fungal infections for bacterial infections. They treat everything with antibiotics. First of all, there's a lot of money in it.

• 27:35Bill Maher?

  But it's also just where, like, they're not, I'm not saying they're trying to be corrupt. It's just like.

• 27:41Speaker 04

  Right, right. Well, I don't know.

• 27:43Bill Maher?

  You know, some of it is.

• 27:44Speaker 04

  Some are trying to make money.

• 27:45Bill Maher?

  Well, yes, and also.

• 27:46Speaker 04

  But the doctors are just trying to give you the best information they have.

• 27:52Bill Maher?

  Yes, and also, they listen to the patients too much, you know. Ask your doctor. We're only one of two countries that has direct-to-consumer advertising for pharmaceuticals.

• 28:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:05Bill Maher?

  So you should never be like, "Hey, doc, could I get some of that?" "Sure, the cute rep from the pharmaceutical company was by this afternoon and she strutted her ass in here and winked at me and I bought a whole parcel of this and they're taking me on this cruise in a couple of months." You know, that shit goes on.

• 28:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:22Bill Maher?

  With doctors.

• 28:22Speaker 04

  I know.

• 28:23Bill Maher?

  And so, and it's very easy just to pass out antibiotics and Vicodin and especially if you're at one of these low-rent, you know, I certainly have heard the stories from people who go to the one on the corner in the, you know, urgent care and it's, it's like, I've heard harrowing stories, just terrible decisions.

• 28:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:44Bill Maher?

  That these people are making, because they don't care. They're not really your doctor.

• 28:48Speaker 04

  Right.

• 28:48Bill Maher?

  You know, I mean, it's like, I know my mechanic better than, you know, so.

• 28:56Speaker 04

  Look at me, uh-huh, I don't. I don't even, I don't know anyone.

• 29:01Bill Maher?

  You just did like a you right there. You did that like you were reading a line and that's why you're so good.

• 29:08Speaker 04

  I'm, thanks, I was gonna say disingenuous.

• 29:11Bill Maher?

  No, your line, you know, I've never seen you in anything where you didn't kill it.

• 29:15Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 29:16Bill Maher?

  Yeah, you, it's so funny, the way you like, you know, you never seem to want to be out front. You just want to, like, be the one who steals it, and you always do.

• 29:25Speaker 04

  Oh, I just want to be the one who steals it. That would be funny. That's what I tell my agents. No, just find me something where I can steal it.

• 29:32Bill Maher?

  Oh.

• 29:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:33Bill Maher?

  And I don't know when the last time I saw you, but, because, you know, these clothes. But like if I never told you how big a fan I was of the comeback.

• 29:46Speaker 04

  Oh, you are?

• 29:46Bill Maher?

  Today would be the time. Really, we never talked about that?

• 29:49Speaker 04

  I don't think so. I don't know.

• 29:51Bill Maher?

  And the re-

• 29:51Speaker 04

  I have secondary clove-

• 29:52Bill Maher?

  Right.

• 29:53Speaker 04

  -issues.

• 29:53Bill Maher?

  And the reboot.

• 29:55Speaker 04

  Oh, thanks.

• 29:56Bill Maher?

  But I, I mean-

• 29:57Speaker 04

  Thank you. I'm most proud of that than anything.

• 29:59Bill Maher?

  You should be. That was a genius show.

• 30:01Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 30:02Bill Maher?

  And I am not an easy completer and I don't bullshit. That's why I don't have people who I don't like, because I'm not a good liar.

• 30:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:09Bill Maher?

  So I can't like pretend, you know-

• 30:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:12Bill Maher?

  That I'm really into, you know-

• 30:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:14Bill Maher?

  Danny Bonaduce. Sorry Danny, if you're listening. Actually, I'd love to have you on. I guess I have to say that, but you know-

• 30:21Speaker 04

  I like Danny Bonaduce.

• 30:22Bill Maher?

  I do, of course. God damn it, why can't we get him on this show?

• 30:28Speaker 04

  Well?

• 30:29Bill Maher?

  But, uh, the comeback was, yeah, that was just-

• 30:33Speaker 04

  Thanks.

• 30:33Bill Maher?

  I mean, I saw them all multiple times.

• 30:37Speaker 04

  Really?

• 30:38Bill Maher?

  Yes.

• 30:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:39Bill Maher?

  The-

• 30:41Speaker 04

  Thanks.

• 30:41Bill Maher?

  Just everybody was, you know that the actor, I don't know his name, I don't think I ever did, who played the, uh, heavyset writer-producer who was mean to you?

• 30:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:52Bill Maher?

  I've seen-

• 30:53Speaker 04

  Lance. He, yeah, he's on Young Sheldon. He plays the father now.

• 30:56Bill Maher?

  Oh.

• 30:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, he finally, you know, people thought, stop thinking he's really mean.

• 31:01Bill Maher?

  I was just gonna say-

• 31:01Speaker 04

  Barbara.

• 31:02Bill Maher?

  He was so-

• 31:02Speaker 04

  So good.

• 31:03Bill Maher?

  Good. And there was something about that show that was so real. And of course, I lived that world of sitcoms too.

• 31:10Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 31:11Bill Maher?

  You know, but it wasn't that. I mean, it is universal.

• 31:14Speaker 04

  But were you on, were you on writing staff too?

• 31:16Bill Maher?

  No, no. Not on sitcoms.

• 31:18Speaker 04

  No.

• 31:19Bill Maher?

  No. So I know that tension with the writing, right? Especially when you're a comedian and they kind of hired you for, to be funny and they did use a lot of, I was on that show, Sarah. Do you remember that with Gina Davis?

• 31:34Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 31:35Bill Maher?

  It was 1985, NBC.

• 31:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:37Bill Maher?

  Not that much before you ran your run.

• 31:40Speaker 04

  Ten years, yeah. Eighty-five, ninety-four, we started.

• 31:45Bill Maher?

  Right.

• 31:46Speaker 04

  But wait, so they would encourage you to pitch lines and alternatives and stuff.

• 31:52Bill Maher?

  Absolutely.

• 31:53Speaker 04

  And they used them.

• 31:55Bill Maher?

  Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, it made their job easier. But they also could be insulted.

• 32:00Speaker 04

  I do appreciate that, though, when they do a lot. That means that they really do want the best show. So it doesn't matter where it comes from, because I think it's a bigger disaster when their ego

• 32:13Bill Maher?

  You're right.

• 32:13Speaker 04

  gets in the way of

• 32:15Bill Maher?

  Right.

• 32:15Speaker 04

  wherever the great line comes from. What do you care?

• 32:18Bill Maher?

  But I was twenty-eight and stupid, and this is my first job, and I didn't sometimes get it. Like, one time, I remember the first run-through, we always, you know, the Mondays, I remember that whole schedule.

• 32:29Speaker 04

  The read-through.

• 32:31Bill Maher?

  Right. And then the first time, they see it on its feet, what they wrote, their first draft.

• 32:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:36Bill Maher?

  And like, I had changed lines, and I remember Gary David Goldberg saying to me, "Could we hear ours once?"

• 32:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:44Bill Maher?

  You know, "Before you tell me it's shit."

• 32:46Speaker 04

  I was told that, too.

• 32:48Bill Maher?

  "Could we hear ours?"

• 32:49Speaker 04

  They're right. But they're right. It's fair enough. They worked so hard.

• 32:53Bill Maher?

  Exactly.

• 32:53Speaker 04

  Give them their thing, and then pitch your thing.

• 32:57Bill Maher?

  It's amazing.

• 32:57Speaker 04

  It's easy, courtesy. It's easy.

• 33:00Bill Maher?

  That's why it sucks being young. There's good reasons why it's great.

• 33:04Speaker 04

  Well, young, you're trying to prove yourself.

• 33:06Bill Maher?

  And you're stupid. That was just stupid.

• 33:09Speaker 04

  And impatient.

• 33:10Bill Maher?

  It was just fucking stupid.

• 33:10Speaker 04

  And it's just, I gotta, no, you gotta know that I've got good ideas before you, I don't have the opportunity to tell you. You don't know that I do. Yeah, it's stupid.

• 33:19Bill Maher?

  Gary David Goldberg

• 33:20Speaker 04

  It's okay.

• 33:21Bill Maher?

  who got that show canceled because he had a shoving match with Brandon Tartikoff at a taping.

• 33:26Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 33:27Bill Maher?

  So he could be volatile, and I could have set him off. And he was always nice to me. He never, like, for whatever reason, sometimes you're so young and dumb that they know that they can't really hold it against you, because it's like blaming the dog, you know?

• 33:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, or they don't care. Which is worse.

• 33:47Bill Maher?

  He cared, but...

• 33:50Bill Maher?

  Yeah, that show got canceled.

• 33:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:53Bill Maher?

  When there was this shoving match. Can you believe that between? He was at the time, one of the most powerful producers in television.

• 33:59Speaker 04

  But was it a good show?

• 34:01Bill Maher?

  Sarah? You know, it was what a sitcom in the 80s was. I think it was a little above average. It did pretty well in the ratings.

• 34:07Speaker 04

  Oh, wow, so that is what.

• 34:08Bill Maher?

  You know, Gina was coming off a couple of movies. She was a very rising.

• 34:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:14Bill Maher?

  Alfred Woodard.

• 34:15Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 34:16Bill Maher?

  And Brunson Pinchot were the other three. We were four lawyers in San Francisco. They felt after like half the episodes, we needed a boss. So then they brought in a boss figure. You know how they thought the networks, those kind of notes and.

• 34:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, we, they made friends get an adult.

• 34:40Speaker 04

  Really nice good actor.

• 34:42Bill Maher?

  We're just children and they have to like this.

• 34:46Speaker 04

  Need someone.

• 34:47Bill Maher?

  Hire someone to play the part of someone who keeps us in order.

• 34:51Speaker 04

  Right, so God bless Martin David, like, all right, we'll try. But, yeah.

• 34:55Bill Maher?

  Yeah, and there was a neighbor with a kid, so they could get a kid in the show. But that was sort of shoehorned in.

• 35:02Speaker 04

  Cause kids always make shows fly.

• 35:05Bill Maher?

  You had to.

• 35:07Bill Maher?

  Well, I guess they did because for the longest time, didn't every show have to have a kid? I remember.

• 35:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, but you have to have great kids. I mean, Roseanne had great kids. Sarah Gilbert was so great and.

• 35:20Bill Maher?

  Yeah.

• 35:20Speaker 04

  They were great, those kids. They were really, truly funny.

• 35:24Bill Maher?

  I remember after I did that sitcom and then I did a one on Showtime called Hard Knocks.

• 35:31Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, that sounds familiar.

• 35:32Bill Maher?

  And then I did one with Sam Kinison in 1990 and then.

• 35:38Speaker 04

  Really?

• 35:39Bill Maher?

  Yeah, it was very short-lived and he was on heroin, so it didn't really work.

• 35:43Speaker 04

  Shoot.

• 35:45Bill Maher?

  But.

• 35:46Speaker 04

  Should have been called Shoot.

• 35:56Speaker 04

  God rest his soul, that's not.

• 35:59Bill Maher?

  But I remember there was also a period there like eighty-nine, ninety, ninety-one, when I was like, I'd done a few of these sitcoms, so I was like pitching, I was at that point where you pitch your own sometimes. And, you know, they would, you get the notes and I did, I had to deal with Fox. I remember I went to the, something they had, like where they were showing the advertisers, their new shows or some shit.

• 36:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, the upfronts.

• 36:25Bill Maher?

  Yeah, but it wasn't, must have been like, some of them weren't picked up yet.

• 36:28Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 36:29Bill Maher?

  This was one of them.

• 36:31Speaker 04

  Would you buy ads for this?

• 36:33Bill Maher?

  Right.

• 36:34Speaker 04

  Was one of those.

• 36:36Bill Maher?

  And apparently they were like, no, we would not, we would not sell toothpaste. It was called Bill Gets a Life. And really, I couldn't make that up. And, yeah, they, they were like, there was that, you need a kid discussion.

• 36:51Speaker 04

  For you?

• 36:52Bill Maher?

  Yes.

• 36:53Speaker 04

  For Bill Gets a Life? Bill Maher needs a kid in the show.

• 36:57Bill Maher?

  It was just like, we work for the network, they're paying us, we have to pretend we know something and are doing something, so.

• 37:06Speaker 04

  Wait, did you write it too?

• 37:08Bill Maher?

  Yeah.

• 37:09Speaker 04

  You were, did you write the pilot?

• 37:10Bill Maher?

  I worked, it was, Gary Shandling had a production deal.

• 37:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:18Bill Maher?

  And we had the same manager, and so, like, it was, we, we worked on it together, the pilot.

• 37:25Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 37:26Bill Maher?

  And then, I mean, I wrote a bunch of other episodes, just hoping they would pick it up, but they didn't. But, of course, it was never my calling, as it is.

• 37:37Speaker 04

  Sitcom.

• 37:38Bill Maher?

  Was yours to act.

• 37:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, well.

• 37:58Speaker 01

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• 38:41Speaker 02

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• 39:11Speaker 04

  Do you know Gary Shan... I was so in awe of Gary Shanling, of course. And I was brought in to audition for Larry Sanders before it was on, the pilot. Oh, really? And I was so excited. Janine Grofflo's role. Ah. Yeah, I don't remember the character's name. And, you know, I came in and I was just sort of being me.

• 39:39Speaker 04

  And I wish I could remember exactly. I think this was it. He said, Gary said, "So, we're gonna read this together." And he was being funny, which was funny. And I just said, "Oh, okay. So I'm not reading it alone. All right." And he just went...

• 40:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, okay. And we read it, and then... You know, I wasn't chit-chatting because I knew for auditions, you're not there to make friends.

• 40:11Bill Maher?

  Right.

• 40:12Speaker 04

  You know, he's gonna do that, I'll just respond with a joke. Same, you know, but maybe a little too dry, you know. And then, and I, why, and I left. And I'm walking down, it's a very long hall, and I hear the door open, and he's peeking out, looking really scared, like to make sure that I'm leaving the building. And I'm like, I don't know, and I'm kinda smiling, like, he's so funny. We're still doing our bit. And he's like, "We will call, we will, we really will call."

• 40:40Bill Maher?

  You're kinda...

• 40:41Speaker 04

  "All right." And I keep going, and I'm like, it wasn't a bit, he's really scared of me. Oh my God, I was too dry. I didn't wink enough at, you know, the bit. It had nothing to do with the scene.

• 40:52Bill Maher?

  Well...

• 40:53Speaker 04

  Like, whatever I did, like, just joking back was... Didn't, didn't work. I hated it, can you imagine? Because I loved him so much, it's like, wouldn't it mean so much that, you know, Gary Shandling thinks I'm funny?

• 41:07Bill Maher?

  I'm sure Gary Shandling thought you were. There's no way in the wor... Oh, please.

• 41:12Speaker 04

  No, he, it was...

• 41:13Bill Maher?

  He's a quirky guy.

• 41:14Speaker 04

  It felt so real.

• 41:14Bill Maher?

  I mean, you're describing a moment in time, and with a quirky guy like Gary Shandling, I loved him, but, yes, a little unpredictable at any given moment.

• 41:26Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:27Bill Maher?

  Um, I mean, we had a moment, working on that thing together, that was highly unpleasant.

• 41:32Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 41:33Bill Maher?

  It happens in show business.

• 41:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:34Bill Maher?

  People cross, and again, young. Listen, I just thought of this, speaking of how stupid I could have been in a room. When I first auditioned out here, I didn't understand that the producers, sometimes you just said producers, were the writers.

• 41:50Speaker 04

  No, me neither.

• 41:51Bill Maher?

  Okay.

• 41:52Speaker 04

  Right.

• 41:52Bill Maher?

  So I read for the two producers, and then I go, "Who wrote this shit?"

• 42:01Bill Maher?

  I swear to God, that happened.

• 42:02Speaker 04

  Oh my God!

• 42:03Bill Maher?

  I know, and I lived to tell the tale. I mean, like, many times, I feel like I could have, like...

• 42:09Speaker 04

  I'm sorry, that is stupid.

• 42:11Bill Maher?

  So...

• 42:12Speaker 04

  Because even if they're not the writers, they're still producing it.

• 42:16Bill Maher?

  I know.

• 42:17Speaker 04

  So it's not like someone's got a gun to their head to produce it.

• 42:20Bill Maher?

  I just, again, and I bet you a lot of people in America can relate to this, the word producer is very fuzzy.

• 42:28Bill Maher?

  It kind of still is for us because it's like it could really mean anything. So I kind of had in my head producer, you know, Dory Sherry, you know, sitting in office with a phone, you know, like, hello, I'm here from Galactic Pictures and I'd like to see that audition from Bill Maher. That was the producer, not the writers. The writers were scribes, you know, they were like guys in t-shirts. And so I just thought, oh, these are the producers and they probably think, they must know that this is shit.

• 42:59Speaker 04

  It's so funny. I know I was tempted at times so that they would know that I know that it's no good. It's like, where does that get you? It doesn't get you anywhere. But to this day, when someone says they're a producer, I still have 500 questions. Like a concierge or like a writer, like what, what form does your role as producer take? Is it creative at all or are you a line producer? Like you actually get the show done?

• 43:28Bill Maher?

  Right. No, it's, it's, it's almost anything. And then, of course, it gets muddied even more because the inflation of the title, that anyone who is anything on the show, I've seen 20 producer people. And I know these are the writers, they just want a producer credit. Because then you're in that union or it's all that kind of bullshit. So we don't know what.

• 43:48Speaker 04

  Well, it's a, it's a promotion. And then you're working your way up to executive producer. Once you get executive producer, they can trust you to create a show, maybe run a show.

• 43:59Bill Maher?

  Right, but people get.

• 44:01Speaker 04

  And get a piece of the show.

• 44:02Bill Maher?

  But you can read a.

• 44:03Speaker 04

  Where you're headed for.

• 44:05Bill Maher?

  You can read a name on a screen and it's, all it says is produced by, and it's somebody, and that is a straight up writer.

• 44:15Speaker 04

  Right.

• 44:15Bill Maher?

  That person does no producing, they are just on a writing staff doing the writing.

• 44:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, I wonder how that happened?

• 44:22Bill Maher?

  Because the title is worth something. It's like a cab medallion.

• 44:26Speaker 04

  Union even allowed the title for, you know, like there's a, there's the producers guild, right? And there's the writers guild. Like, how was it allowed?

• 44:37Bill Maher?

  That's what.

• 44:38Speaker 04

  How come you can't just say I'm a director too?

• 44:40Bill Maher?

  That's what agents.

• 44:43Speaker 04

  You know, there's no crossover there. Wait, I have to tell you something.

• 44:47Bill Maher?

  Yes, do it.

• 44:50Speaker 04

  No, no, you are... You said something once and it made a... It was a huge... It was a geological shift for me. With regards to the comeback. Because we had gotten canceled. And I didn't feel bad about it. Because I felt like, well, someone made a mistake. And that's their mistake. We did the best show we could. Someone didn't like it, or I don't know what. Nothing I can do about that. I'm just proud of what we did. Honestly, I felt fine. And then, you know, people kept saying, especially business people, I'm getting to you. But business, you know, like executive types, or people who ran networks that I happened to know, you know, would say, "What happened? Were the ratings bad?" No, they were the same, if not better than Entourage,

• 45:35Speaker 04

  that started the, you know, season before. I... Well, it must have been something. I said, "I don't know. Michael thought maybe because, you know, we don't have a point of reference for a woman in that role, you know?" And that's what it is. That's what it is.

• 45:51Bill Maher?

  Wait, wait, I don't understand it. What does that mean? Point of reference for a woman?

• 45:55Speaker 04

  For a woman who is...

• 45:58Bill Maher?

  The lead is a woman.

• 46:00Speaker 04

  Not just the lead, but flawed. And having that kind of ego. And being humiliated.

• 46:08Bill Maher?

  Too flawed?

• 46:08Speaker 04

  And, you know, setting herself up for humiliation. You know, kept stepping into that. So, but, and I couldn't... I was like, "Yeah, that's fine. How is that, though? And how could I forget? Is that possibly it?" Then you said something. I was watching your show. And it wasn't related. It was just that you were talking about... Someone made a joke at the expense of, you know, someone who's, you know, from a marginalized group. And I don't remember specifically what it was. And you said, "Come on." You know, I'm all for... Humor is humor. And it should be allowed, okay? But you don't make fun of the victim. You know, that's not going to work.

• 46:53Speaker 04

  And that's when the penny dropped and I went... Because women are not the people in power. They're not like the, like, the white guy in power. And women are kind of that marginalized group.

• 47:08Bill Maher?

  Wow.

• 47:08Speaker 04

  It really bothered a lot of people to watch a woman get humiliated all the time.

• 47:15Bill Maher?

  I feel like that's a casualty of an audience that was, I'm sorry, the people who didn't get it were just not sophisticated enough to appreciate it. And that's fine. There are things I am unsophisticated in and I do not appreciate. Hockey, for example.

• 47:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:34Bill Maher?

  Okay.

• 47:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:36Bill Maher?

  And others. I'm stupid, like, watching, like, murky thriller mystery types. I, that's when I need a girlfriend. That's, you know, someone who I'm always watching a movie with, like, honey, what happened there with the guy?

• 47:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:51Bill Maher?

  Oh, that's the same guy. Oh, I didn't see that, where he put the paper down. You know, that's where a girlfriend would be good.

• 47:59Speaker 04

  Or anyone watching it. Paying close attention.

• 48:02Bill Maher?

  Not that I'm a lonely guy. I'm just saying, the kind of person you're watching movies with and you can always ask. But, so we're all dim in our own ways, but they're missing, like, that is the, what's such genius about that character is that, you know, she, that's what's funny. I mean, probably you see Fields falling.

• 48:25Speaker 04

  Between a man behaving like that and a woman behaving like that. It's like, that's how people who are driven towards something like the spotlight, yeah, they're gonna make little stupid things.

• 48:36Bill Maher?

  I don't think that's what it was.

• 48:38Speaker 04

  You don't?

• 48:38Bill Maher?

  No, because I think everybody, I think that's what made it very relatable, because the subject matter is very specific. That is where you lost people, because it's like, what is this world? To us, it's our world. But, and also the level of subtlety in the comedy that you were working with is something that, that's what made me love this show so much and watch it multiple times, because the level of the subtlety. But that, that's my business or my mind or whatever. Many people, that kind of subtlety is just not in the realm of possibility for them to appreciate.

• 49:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:13Bill Maher?

  I don't mean that as a put-down. I just mean.

• 49:15Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 49:16Bill Maher?

  I'll give you, let me give you an example of a scene. You were talking, the gay makeup guy.

• 49:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, Mickey.

• 49:24Bill Maher?

  Mickey, yes, okay. And you run into this other guy. And you're asking about some other friend. I mean, I think they were, they were both gay. And so that was in the mix of the scene. And it was so brilliant because you never enunciated what we were thinking and yet we knew it was. Because they tell you, they give you this piece of information. Oh, no, he died. And you react, you never say the word AIDS.

• 49:48Speaker 04

  Right.

• 49:49Bill Maher?

  But you, you're like, oh. And then he goes, oh, no. He was hit by a car crossing Barham. And you go, oh, good. No, not good.

• 50:00Speaker 04

  Right.

• 50:01Bill Maher?

  And like encapsulated in that 13 seconds of genius comedy.

• 50:06Speaker 04

  Right, that's how you know she thought it was AIDS.

• 50:08Bill Maher?

  So much, but without ever saying it.

• 50:10Speaker 04

  Right.

• 50:11Bill Maher?

  To me, that is the genius of that show. I also see how other people go, what was that conversation? Why is that funny? Right?

• 50:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:24Bill Maher?

  And that's, that we, I have the same sort of issue with stuff. I mean, there, one reason I started this podcast is because lots of people just are not interested in politics or what's really, you know, that kind of stuff at all. They're interested in more human stuff that they are relatable to everybody's lives. They don't want to hear about Ukraine and the UN and the fucking ACLU and abortion. And that's fine, and they never will, and I will never get them. But this, anybody can listen to this.

• 50:56Speaker 04

  Yeah. Because you just want to entertain.

• 51:00Bill Maher?

  I just want to get high with you. That's what I, oh, really, that's what I want to do.

• 51:07Speaker 04

  But I do just want to entertain, honestly. I mean, I do think there's not entertain. That makes me sound like Ginger from Gilligan's Island.

• 51:19Bill Maher?

  Oh my god.

• 51:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, I don't, but I, but I, I do think it's really necessary.

• 51:24Bill Maher?

  Sweetheart, you don't have to fucking convince me on that one. I am all about the idea that we're all just in entertainment. We use different clay.

• 51:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:32Bill Maher?

  You know, I don't see my people, Bill, you're a pundit. Well, you know, I, I think I am selling wisdom out there. Yes, I think the country's fucking dumb and they do need me to straighten it out. I'm not gonna lie about that. But I, if I, I, I, my main thing is I'm entertaining.

• 51:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:47Bill Maher?

  And I, if I'm not, I'm, I'm nothing.

• 51:49Speaker 04

  Right.

• 51:49Bill Maher?

  Because that's how I look at shit. If you don't entertain me, like, you know, the, we did a funny thing about a year ago and not this Oscar batch, but the one before was just incredibly lugubrious. You know, Minari and, you know, the Nomadland and there was, it was just Debbie Downer time.

• 52:11Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:11Bill Maher?

  You know, and we did a whole, it was funny about like, come on, you know, it's gotta be a little entertaining and, and yes, we understand there are issues and you can, but Hollywood did used to know how to take an issue, but also make it not just sad.

• 52:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:28Bill Maher?

  Right?

• 52:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:29Bill Maher?

  So when you say you're out to entertain, you had me at hello with that one.

• 52:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, I think everyone needs a break. I mean, that's what everyone wants, really badly. They really want a break. But by the way, your show, you're, there's no, you have no agenda. You're just, you're just a very funny person. And you're being really honest about what, and brave, about what you think about things and how you feel about how people respond to what you think too. Like, you know, like, you know, I actually said like, you know, but, um.

• 53:06Bill Maher?

  Yeah, and, and.

• 53:07Speaker 04

  No, and there's a lot of value in that. There's a lot of value in that.

• 53:11Bill Maher?

  But we both, I think, have these kind of careers where we got the memo fairly early on. There is somewhat of a ceiling for us.

• 53:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:22Bill Maher?

  And, and it is a ceiling created by the fact that, you know, there are levels of subtlety that, you know, everybody can go and enjoy, what's the, Top Gun.

• 53:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, right.

• 53:38Bill Maher?

  I mean, it's a billion dollar.

• 53:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:40Bill Maher?

  Opening and a billion people will see it. We're not playing in that.

• 53:44Speaker 04

  No, I don't see. Yeah.

• 53:47Bill Maher?

  And we don't.

• 53:48Speaker 04

  I can't imagine.

• 53:49Bill Maher?

  We can't. And we don't know. We really don't even want to, right?

• 53:51Speaker 04

  Can't imagine anyone asking me to be in.

• 53:54Bill Maher?

  Well, yeah.

• 53:55Speaker 04

  Maverick Three, or whatever, you know. You know, it'd be great.

• 53:59Bill Maher?

  Actually, you would, you would fucking steal that and also make it. It would be so great if they actually did that. Or you were in.

• 54:06Speaker 04

  I know, but who's going to wait? Are you 60 yet? Because it would be great.

• 54:12Bill Maher?

  But you don't look anywhere near 60.

• 54:13Speaker 04

  Oh, good.

• 54:14Bill Maher?

  Yeah, you look great.

• 54:15Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 54:16Bill Maher?

  You always did.

• 54:16Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 54:17Bill Maher?

  I always thought you, I mean, I always had a little crush on you on Friends because I thought you were the smart one on your show. And I like.

• 54:23Speaker 04

  I just got dizzy.

• 54:24Bill Maher?

  And, and I was, quite frankly, the smart one on my show. Wait, I was the only one on my show.

• 54:30Speaker 04

  Which makes you the smartest one on your show.

• 54:32Bill Maher?

  But, I mean, not that everybody on this show wasn't smart. They were all smart. Everybody's smart.

• 54:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, they are.

• 54:38Bill Maher?

  Just smart.

• 54:38Speaker 04

  Well, but they are.

• 54:39Bill Maher?

  They are. They really are.

• 54:40Speaker 04

  They actually are.

• 54:41Bill Maher?

  And they're all good.

• 54:42Speaker 04

  Learned a lot from them.

• 54:43Bill Maher?

  Yeah. But I would say even they probably would agree. If you had to vote for who was the smartest, it would probably be you.

• 54:49Speaker 04

  Who's the smartest? Who's the one that drones on and on about things we don't want to talk about? Who's the one that always has a theory about something?

• 54:57Bill Maher?

  Is that what you did?

• 54:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:58Bill Maher?

  Really?

• 54:59Speaker 04

  Oh, I always, I'm always like, what's my, like, what's my theory behind that? You know?

• 55:05Bill Maher?

  But you have a lot of time to kill.

• 55:07Speaker 04

  What's the evidence?

• 55:07Bill Maher?

  While they're setting up and shit, right? That's what I remember from Sid Con.

• 55:12Speaker 04

  But I would bring up, you know, look, well, no, I'm watching CNN. You gotta see what's happening here. It's very important. And, you know.

• 55:19Bill Maher?

  And they didn't want to get into that?

• 55:20Speaker 04

  Okay, yeah, no, I'll be, I'll be back. Will you tell me what happened? Yeah.

• 55:25Bill Maher?

  What, what were they talking about?

• 55:30Speaker 04

  Things that people talk about, I mean, other things, yes, that.

• 55:33Bill Maher?

  Of course, you were in your twenties.

• 55:34Speaker 04

  But not for as long as I'm, not me, I was thirty when we started it.

• 55:37Bill Maher?

  Thirty, ha ha.

• 55:38Speaker 04

  Thirties.

• 55:39Bill Maher?

  Same thing.

• 55:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:40Bill Maher?

  But, yeah, but people in their twenties generally tend to be more, you know, first of all, sort of like navel gazing. I mean, it's like your first, I always say you're, you're born twice in life, once when you're actually born. What, I'm going over.

• 55:54Speaker 04

  Someone's calling me.

• 55:55Bill Maher?

  Oh, on your phone, I mean, on your watch? Oh, for fuck's sake, I can't even.

• 56:01Speaker 04

  I dismissed it.

• 56:02Bill Maher?

  No, no, no, I just don't, I don't, I've never saw anybody like get a call on their watch.

• 56:07Speaker 04

  Cause my phone's just right there.

• 56:09Bill Maher?

  But what, I know.

• 56:09Speaker 04

  So it rings on here.

• 56:11Bill Maher?

  But why do you need?

• 56:12Speaker 04

  I don't know, that's not why I have it.

• 56:14Bill Maher?

  That extra layer of.

• 56:15Speaker 04

  That's not why I have it.

• 56:17Bill Maher?

  Why do you have it?

• 56:19Speaker 04

  I like to know what time it is.

• 56:23Bill Maher?

  But you didn't have to get a watch that hooked up to your phone.

• 56:25Speaker 04

  And it also tells me, you know, if I'm taking any steps today, or was I just sitting in my chair all day?

• 56:31Bill Maher?

  But your brain knows that.

• 56:33Speaker 04

  Not anymore, Bill.

• 56:37Bill Maher?

  What are you saying, you're an android, you're like, uh, do you know that, you know Ray Kurzweil?

• 56:42Speaker 04

  Huh, no.

• 56:43Bill Maher?

  Oh, he's an author.

• 56:45Speaker 04

  They won't, it's really important, I guess.

• 56:47Bill Maher?

  It is? All right, I'll let you get out of here if you need to, but. He's, he's an amazing thinker and scientist and professor and, uh, he's been right about predict, predicted a lot of amazing things like down to the year, like the fall of the Soviet Union.

• 57:03Speaker 04

  Oh, wow.

• 57:04Bill Maher?

  But he's, uh, he predicts, he has a book called The Singularity, which says in 2028, man and machine will basically.

• 57:13Speaker 04

  Become.

• 57:14Bill Maher?

  I mean, that's only six years away. Now, of course, we are already partway there, people do have parts in them that are machine parts.

• 57:22Speaker 04

  Yes, with computers in it, some of them even.

• 57:24Bill Maher?

  Yes, so.

• 57:26Speaker 04

  With things that communicate with computers.

• 57:28Bill Maher?

  As you and I are, you know, punching old age in the mouth, do you, is this something that, like, you would consider, like, cause I sure would.

• 57:38Speaker 04

  Really?

• 57:39Bill Maher?

  Well, I mean, if I could just keep my brain and my dick.

• 57:44Bill Maher?

  The rest of it.

• 57:45Speaker 04

  Your two favorite things.

• 57:47Bill Maher?

  The rest of it, you can fucking replace.

• 57:49Speaker 04

  Your two favorite things.

• 57:50Bill Maher?

  Now, that's really kind of true.

• 57:51Speaker 04

  But they have a sibling rivalry.

• 57:54Bill Maher?

  Oh, why argue? He's always gonna win. But, uh...

• 57:58Speaker 04

  Still, that's pretty good.

• 58:00Bill Maher?

  Yeah, that is pretty good. We'll be right back. Now.

• 58:06Bill Maher?

  Do you have to take your call, or, I mean, I don't...

• 58:08Speaker 04

  No, absolutely not.

• 58:10Bill Maher?

  Okay, all right. I know, I... I'm just so grateful.

• 58:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 58:14Bill Maher?

  Grateful you're here. I was...

• 58:16Speaker 04

  It's been long enough. Wait, can I ask you one question?

• 58:18Bill Maher?

  Yes, you can ask me anything. We're sitting around drinking.

• 58:21Speaker 04

  What was, what, what field of history? What were you studying?

• 58:25Bill Maher?

  Well...

• 58:25Speaker 04

  What was it?

• 58:26Bill Maher?

  I was at Cornell, and I was trying to establish that. I knew I loved history.

• 58:33Bill Maher?

  Taught myself American history. Could name all the American presidents in a row if you forced me to. Not because I have it memorized, just because I know the history.

• 58:45Bill Maher?

  I think I could. Anyway, um, so I did love medieval. That really called to me, and I remember, I mean, this is before computers, so we were in the stacks. You know, the library.

• 59:00Speaker 04

  I loved the stacks.

• 59:01Bill Maher?

  Yeah, the stacks. See, you're the smart one. You're in the stacks. The girl in the stacks. That'd be a good romantic song, or movie, that I'll never write. But, so...

• 59:12Speaker 04

  The girl in the stacks, everybody. Well, I'll see you tomorrow night.

• 59:15Bill Maher?

  It is kind of sexy, that title.

• 59:17Speaker 04

  Girl in the stacks?

• 59:18Bill Maher?

  Yeah.

• 59:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:19Bill Maher?

  But it would have to be a period piece, because there's no more stacks.

• 59:21Speaker 04

  No.

• 59:23Bill Maher?

  But I remember being in there, these dusty old books, and I was writing some paper on the, something in the medieval period, and the professor, I mean, he's talking about the paper or something, and he said, I asked him a question, and he said, um, "Well, it doesn't matter. You, you know, after, at this point, there's really nothing new you could add to this." And I'm like, then what the fuck am I doing with this as a major? Now, mind you, I knew I was gonna be a comedian when I was 10.

• 59:51Speaker 04

  Oh, okay.

• 59:51Bill Maher?

  So I, when I was at college, I really wasn't trying to get a degree that would get me a job. I knew what I was gonna do.

• 59:58Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 59:59Bill Maher?

  You know, go and, uh...

• 1:00:00Speaker 04

  So the grades weren't, you weren't out for, I gotta get an A?

• 1:00:03Bill Maher?

  Eh, no, but I did anyway. I was always a...

• 1:00:06Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:00:06Bill Maher?

  I was a straight A student in high school. I missed one day of high school.

• 1:00:10Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:00:10Bill Maher?

  Covid. And, no, but I love the subject. If I had like a 28-hour day, I would spend two of them just reading history.

• 1:00:26Speaker 04

  Wow. I don't agree with that professor, though. There's no such thing.

• 1:00:30Bill Maher?

  But it was discouraging.

• 1:00:32Speaker 04

  Right, how were you to know then? No, because I gotta say-

• 1:00:36Bill Maher?

  Right, I was younger than when I was the idiot who wrote this shit. Can you imagine how stupid I was then?

• 1:00:42Speaker 04

  Well...

• 1:00:46Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:00:50Bill Maher?

  It's almost beyond-

• 1:00:52Speaker 04

  No, but, because I've gotta say, doing, who do you think you are? And the historians, you know, that give us context for whatever the person's looking at. There's so many, there are different interpretations of history. So, my question is, so would you read different historians who had differing opinions about certain events?

• 1:01:17Bill Maher?

  Well, there's-

• 1:01:18Speaker 04

  And-

• 1:01:19Bill Maher?

  Yeah, I mean, there's always someone who wants to be a revisionist.

• 1:01:24Speaker 04

  Based on new letters they found, new information?

• 1:01:27Bill Maher?

  Just based on they have to publish something.

• 1:01:30Speaker 04

  Okay, yeah, that's a problem, too.

• 1:01:31Bill Maher?

  That's a lot of, academia is such a scuzzy area. I know it's, and people say, I'm sure there's plenty of professors now, like, dropping their pipes. "How dare you." Yes, I'm sure there's exceptions, and yes, we need colleges and universities, but a lot of it is, they know this better than anybody, political and what you publish, and, yes, sometimes you just have to find... I don't think that professor was wrong when he said that. When I, if I was researching the venerable Bede or somebody, who lived in 690 in Lindisfarne in the monastery. No, we're not gonna find anything new about this motherfucker. Anything that came out about this guy, we know, I think.

• 1:02:13Bill Maher?

  There's no more venerable Bede stuff that's, TMZ is not gonna come out tomorrow. It's a story about the venerable Bede.

• 1:02:22Speaker 04

  Well, no, TMZ won't. But, who knows? Sometimes there's a letter, there's a something somewhere. But even without that, it's just- I don't know, like, you know, and then you have archaeology where they find new things about how people were killed or what they were eating.

• 1:02:38Bill Maher?

  Well, that's.

• 1:02:39Speaker 04

  If someone was poisoned or.

• 1:02:41Bill Maher?

  Well, that that doesn't happen that often, that can't, but where that does happen a lot, of course, is in early man history. That is always changing because they don't have the complete fossil record at all. They have pieces here and pieces there.

• 1:02:56Speaker 04

  Don't get me started on the fossil record. No, evolutionary biology was what I was interested in.

• 1:03:02Bill Maher?

  Before comedy?

• 1:03:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, before comedy. Yeah, that's what I was studying in school and, yeah.

• 1:03:09Bill Maher?

  Well, that's why I always thought for your for your genealogy show, you should have on Lucy.

• 1:03:17Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:03:17Bill Maher?

  Lucy.

• 1:03:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, the very first.

• 1:03:21Bill Maher?

  Who better?

• 1:03:21Speaker 04

  But not the very first anymore, I don't think.

• 1:03:23Bill Maher?

  Well, early.

• 1:03:26Speaker 04

  Early. I'm related to her, I think.

• 1:03:28Bill Maher?

  We're all related to her.

• 1:03:31Bill Maher?

  Who was Lucy? Tell the audience who Lucy is.

• 1:03:34Speaker 04

  Lucy was, well, I don't know when. I don't have the details.

• 1:03:38Bill Maher?

  2.5 million years ago.

• 1:03:39Speaker 04

  That's it?

• 1:03:40Bill Maher?

  Yes, Lucy.

• 1:03:43Bill Maher?

  Lucy was about four feet tall and lived about two and a half million years ago.

• 1:03:48Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:48Bill Maher?

  And is one of our direct ancestors.

• 1:03:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:03:53Bill Maher?

  Humans came along, you know, like 200,000 years ago. And of course, we are not the only human species. We wiped the other ones out. You know, wherever, have you read the great book Sapiens?

• 1:04:07Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:04:07Bill Maher?

  Oh, that's you love.

• 1:04:08Speaker 04

  No, I didn't.

• 1:04:09Bill Maher?

  That is a book for you. You'd love that book.

• 1:04:11Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:04:12Bill Maher?

  Because it talks about, well, many things about sapiens, but one, wherever humans went, the fossil record is very clear. We killed everything, including the other human species.

• 1:04:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:24Bill Maher?

  And the other big animal species like. There's a whole bunch of species, for example, in Australia. And then humans arrive, and a thousand years later, we don't have any fossils from those big animals. They just fucking killed them all, like the way the people killed the buffalo in our American West, just for fun and just like.

• 1:04:44Speaker 04

  Well, for fun. They're food, too.

• 1:04:47Bill Maher?

  Food, but they killed a lot of buffalo just because, I mean, they would just, they would have a herd and they would just, there was too many to use. The Indians, of course, used all the buffalo.

• 1:04:56Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:04:57Bill Maher?

  We were the opposite.

• 1:04:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:59Bill Maher?

  And we're still those assholes.

• 1:05:01Speaker 04

  Yeah. That's right. When, when are we gonna stop being surprised?

• 1:05:07Bill Maher?

  Well, I mean.

• 1:05:08Speaker 04

  Get used to it. No, that's not the right attitude, and it's not funny enough to be said, but.

• 1:05:14Bill Maher?

  Well, I mean, not that, look, all humans

• 1:05:19Bill Maher?

  are shitty people, you know. It's not, it's not like Indians didn't do shitty things too, to each other.

• 1:05:26Speaker 04

  If, if, yeah. If feeling insecure enough and scared enough, I think humans become really shitty. But I think when there's a crisis, or a need for people to come together and help each other, they do, to be cooperative. I think they do.

• 1:05:43Bill Maher?

  Oh.

• 1:05:44Speaker 04

  When it feels, when it's imminent.

• 1:05:45Bill Maher?

  Well, some do, and some take advantage of the situation. Many take advantage. Some do.

• 1:05:53Speaker 04

  But then Sheriff Taylor runs them out of town, so it's okay.

• 1:05:57Bill Maher?

  Is that where you're getting this? That was a, that was a great lesson teaching show.

• 1:06:02Speaker 04

  There used to be great lessons. I was just gonna say, remember when you'd, you'd watch a show and there was always, you knew that the right thing would happen in the end, and I miss that.

• 1:06:14Bill Maher?

  There was a great, classic episode of, what was it called? Mayberry?

• 1:06:20Speaker 04

  Uh, oh, well, now I can't remember.

• 1:06:23Bill Maher?

  I mean, the town was Mayberry. Was it called Mayberry RFD, or? Welcome to Mayberry.

• 1:06:29Speaker 04

  The Andy Griffith Show.

• 1:06:30Bill Maher?

  The Andy Griffith Show, exactly. You know why?

• 1:06:33Speaker 04

  We kept, I'm like.

• 1:06:35Bill Maher?

  Right. The Andy Griffith.

• 1:06:36Speaker 04

  Sheriff without a gun? No.

• 1:06:38Bill Maher?

  I watched it in reruns when I was a kid, when I was homesick. And I loved it.

• 1:06:43Speaker 04

  Me too.

• 1:06:44Bill Maher?

  So there was an episode where Opie, Ron Howard, of course, to be the great director, Ron Howard,

• 1:06:55Bill Maher?

  he kills a bird with a slingshot. And then Andy's trying to teach him a lesson why he shouldn't have done that. And Opie's complaining about the bird chirping. And he said, "Yeah, well, I'm not gonna shoo that bird away. That's that bird calling for his mama, and I'm gonna let you hear how sad she is."

• 1:07:19Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:07:21Bill Maher?

  So I don't know why that, you know, why that one stuck in my memory, that episode. But it may have been why I joined PETA in the 90s. And I've been a PETA board member all these years. You know?

• 1:07:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:36Bill Maher?

  I always loved that.

• 1:07:37Speaker 04

  No, but it's also, it's right, and it's kind of sophisticated. Because it's very easy to say, "All right, you killed a bird, you didn't have to do that, but, all right." I mean, because that's how a lot of people felt, like, it's a bird. It's not a conscious being like we are.

• 1:07:52Bill Maher?

  Right.

• 1:07:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, we have to treat each other with respect. If we're all working on something, you have to show some appreciation for what other people are contributing. You know, I don't mean demonstrate it every day. Show appreciation and not saying, "What the fuck, you did it wrong." You know, you don't talk to someone like that.

• 1:08:12Bill Maher?

  Is that what your experience has been on sets?

• 1:08:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:16Speaker 04

  Yeah. Not to me personally, but I've seen it.

• 1:08:19Bill Maher?

  Yes, but sets are tense places.

• 1:08:21Speaker 04

  But they don't have to be.

• 1:08:23Bill Maher?

  No.

• 1:08:24Speaker 04

  And they're less tense.

• 1:08:25Bill Maher?

  I don't know.

• 1:08:26Speaker 04

  Now, I feel like the ones I've been on have been much less tense.

• 1:08:30Bill Maher?

  Really? But it's a high-wire industry. I mean, we're paid more than... Most people, a lot more. Okay. You're up on a higher wire. Like, if you fuck up, it can be in front of millions instead of just three people, right?

• 1:08:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:49Bill Maher?

  What's at stake if you're on a film set? You know, a film is very often, you know, a hundred and fifty million dollar startup industry. That's really how you... It's a quick startup industry.

• 1:09:00Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:09:00Bill Maher?

  That's investing a hundred and fifty million dollars. If you were making widgets, it's like, boy, we better sell some of these widgets. And it could fail.

• 1:09:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, it could.

• 1:09:09Bill Maher?

  Yeah, so people are tense. And I've never seen any sort of set where there wasn't some sort of blow up or people going nuts. I mean, we see some of them on film. We've seen actors and directors and go nuts.

• 1:09:23Speaker 04

  From a while ago.

• 1:09:24Bill Maher?

  I've had it happen to me personally.

• 1:09:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:09:27Bill Maher?

  On a set. Like, just screamed at by someone for no good reason.

• 1:09:32Speaker 04

  Right, and then how did it go after that?

• 1:09:35Bill Maher?

  This is a sitcom that would... Not the one I talked about before, but the other one that it was quickly canceled. But, you know...

• 1:09:43Speaker 04

  No, but it's just...

• 1:09:45Bill Maher?

  Yeah, it's rough.

• 1:09:46Speaker 04

  It doesn't have, but it doesn't... It's not necessary. It's not, you know... You handed me the wrong instrument to... For this brain surgery. That's not what it is. It's not in the moment, life or death. We can... It's digital. It's not even film. We can do the take again.

• 1:10:03Bill Maher?

  But show people...

• 1:10:03Speaker 04

  We have editors. I mean, there's... It's... Everyone has... And your best work comes when you're just a little more relaxed. You know, you have like a nervous energy. But it doesn't have to be an angry energy. You know what I mean? It's just...

• 1:10:22Bill Maher?

  Yeah, I mean, but again, it's hard to get the very talented people without their fucking quirks. Show people are just... They're...

• 1:10:35Bill Maher?

  Everything about them is exaggerated. You know, they're very often exaggeratedly good-looking, temperamental. You know, my friend always says insanity photographs.

• 1:10:46Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:10:47Bill Maher?

  You know.

• 1:10:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:10:48Bill Maher?

  Crazy people.

• 1:10:50Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:10:50Bill Maher?

  But something about that is also charismatic and you can't take your eyes off it.

• 1:10:55Speaker 04

  Or honest, because they can't help themselves.

• 1:10:57Bill Maher?

  Sometimes, yes. Trump's that way, you know, he's, he can't help revealing himself.

• 1:11:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:11:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:11:06Bill Maher?

  So you're not, I don't know if you're ever gonna have this utopia where you have the really talented people and there's not craziness going on. It's a crazy business.

• 1:11:15Speaker 04

  You know, I, okay. I mean, I know plenty of talented people that are not crazy.

• 1:11:19Bill Maher?

  I agree. And, and if you have the choice to work with them, you should.

• 1:11:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:11:25Bill Maher?

  But there might be.

• 1:11:26Speaker 04

  But there's less tolerance for the ones that act out and misbehave and make it a miserable experience.

• 1:11:36Bill Maher?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:37Speaker 04

  And to me, that's a good thing.

• 1:11:40Bill Maher?

  Yeah, unless they make a fortune.

• 1:11:44Bill Maher?

  If the thing makes a fortune because of that person, they're gonna put up with an amazing amount of shit.

• 1:11:50Speaker 04

  They are. But you're saying, I mean, I don't know that I agree that a person's difficult, you know, punishing side of them is what makes them talented. I think maybe they think it is, but I don't think it is. I really don't.

• 1:12:06Bill Maher?

  I'm just saying.

• 1:12:07Speaker 04

  I don't think they trust that they've just got it and you don't have to panic or worry over it.

• 1:12:11Bill Maher?

  I'm just saying, I don't think they're separable, you know. Like, watching the Johnny Depp trial. I mean, some of the things he was doing, passing out and throwing places, plates and, you know.

• 1:12:24Speaker 04

  Throwing places.

• 1:12:25Bill Maher?

  That's right. You know, calling her a cunt and this and that are not model behavior.

• 1:12:31Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:12:32Bill Maher?

  But the jury forgave him because he's wildly charismatic. I don't know if you can separate those two things. He's a nut. He always was a nut. Insanity photographs, it's, it works on camera. And if you took away the insanity, I think, you know, you'd have Richard Greco.

• 1:12:53Speaker 04

  I almost said, "Wait, who?"

• 1:12:56Bill Maher?

  He was this, Richard Grieco.

• 1:12:59Speaker 04

  No, I do know the name.

• 1:13:00Bill Maher?

  Now I gotta know. Him, and Danny Buttigieg. Oh, I got so many people mad at me. He was a very, very good-looking actor on a, you know, like, one of those shows like 21 Jump Street. You know, he had a minute there where he was the it boy.

• 1:13:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, I wasn't watching TV at that time.

• 1:13:18Bill Maher?

  But it didn't quite, you know, I would, you know, I'm sure there are people who bet money on Richard Grieco and not Johnny Depp. And after that trial, I bet you Richard Grieco's like, "Boy, I dodged a bullet there."

• 1:13:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, that would...

• 1:13:35Bill Maher?

  All right, I'll let you go back to your life in the wild.

• 1:13:39Speaker 04

  And you need to find another clove cigarette.

• 1:13:42Bill Maher?

  Oh, I got them right here.

• 1:13:44Speaker 04

  Oh, it's a pretty case.

• 1:13:45Bill Maher?

  I know. I find it so sophisticated to have a little...

• 1:13:49Speaker 04

  It is. It's really elegant.

• 1:13:51Bill Maher?

  Yes.

• 1:13:52Speaker 04

  Very nice.

• 1:13:53Bill Maher?

  Madame? No.

• 1:13:54Speaker 04

  No, thank you.

• 1:13:55Bill Maher?

  Well, thank you.

• 1:13:56Speaker 04

  Thank you very much.

• 1:13:57Bill Maher?

  This was more fun than I could tell you. And I'm so flattered that you just did it.

• 1:14:02Speaker 04

  Yeah, why wouldn't I?

• 1:14:03Bill Maher?

  Because you need me like a hole in the head.

• 1:14:05Speaker 04

  What?

• 1:14:06Bill Maher?

  That's how I feel about you. You're you.

• 1:14:10Speaker 04

  No, you know, there's a big difference.

• 1:14:14Bill Maher?

  Don't make me go through other parts of the comeback that...

• 1:14:17Speaker 04

  Yeah. But meanwhile, by the way, I brought that whole thing up for a reason was because it made sense to me. Like, for the first time, when you, and I was like so...

• 1:14:26Bill Maher?

  Oh, good.

• 1:14:26Speaker 04

  Because the people that I had talked to, thinking, they see women as victims. And it never dawned on me, just like it never dawned on you that, you know...

• 1:14:38Bill Maher?

  But that was...

• 1:14:40Speaker 04

  It never dawned on me, and I went, "Shit, you missed it again."

• 1:14:43Bill Maher?

  But that character was so much more than just that. I mean, that was certainly...

• 1:14:47Speaker 04

  I thought so.

• 1:14:47Bill Maher?

  The MacGuffin that gets the character going, I mean, that, that... I mean, but again, I think that's all, that's what was relatable. We've all been the person who thinks they're going to be cast as the young, hot one, not literally, but in life.

• 1:15:07Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 1:15:08Bill Maher?

  But really is going to be the shrumpy aunt with the catchphrase. I mean, that alone, you know, should have won you all the awards because that, that was just so perfect.

• 1:15:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:15:21Bill Maher?

  And certainly everybody in showbiz knows it, but in life it happens too.

• 1:15:25Speaker 04

  Yes, no, we had.

• 1:15:26Bill Maher?

  It does.

• 1:15:26Speaker 04

  There are plenty of people in other industries that went, yeah, I mean.

• 1:15:30Bill Maher?

  You think you're gonna, and they don't, they see you as this. And the way she smiled through it all.

• 1:15:37Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:15:38Bill Maher?

  You know, the way.

• 1:15:38Speaker 04

  How about that?

• 1:15:39Bill Maher?

  She never like let it get them down. I mean, she never let that heavyset guy who I'm still afraid of.

• 1:15:47Speaker 04

  Paulie G.

• 1:15:48Bill Maher?

  Oh, I did not like him. I remember one time he was getting blown when you walked in on him. Oh, it was just, everything was just terrible about him. He still scares me. Um, he should have been on Oz.

• 1:16:03Speaker 04

  Oh, so funny.

• 1:16:04Bill Maher?

  He was so scary, but like, he never, like, he would never, you would never get bitter. You know, you would never, you would just soldier on.

• 1:16:13Speaker 04

  Just kept going.

• 1:16:14Bill Maher?

  Yes.

• 1:16:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:15Bill Maher?

  I find that so much more inspiring than, you know.

• 1:16:19Speaker 04

  I think it has to do with how, like, how you see things. Cause for some people, it was like, she just got humiliated at every turn. And for other people, it was like, no, she just kept going. She just kept saying, yeah, I clocked that, I won't have it. I'm gonna create my own reality. Here we go.

• 1:16:33Bill Maher?

  And then they didn't, they were nice enough to, somebody was smart enough to do it again.

• 1:16:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was fun.

• 1:16:39Bill Maher?

  A third time?

• 1:16:40Speaker 04

  Maybe.

• 1:16:41Bill Maher?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:41Speaker 04

  It's been nine years soon, so maybe.

• 1:16:45Bill Maher?

  I mean, that character is.

• 1:16:48Speaker 04

  I know, I slip into her so easily.

• 1:16:50Bill Maher?

  I mean, there are people who have done, you know, as, through time, they've done it the same character. They just picked it up. It's, it's, you know.

• 1:16:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, Alan Partridge, yeah.

• 1:17:01Bill Maher?

  Yeah, thank you, alright.

• 1:17:08Bill Maher?

  Now the mics are off.

• 1:17:13Bill Maher?

  All right.

• 1:17:13Speaker 04

  That was fun.

• 1:17:14Bill Maher?

  I feel like I got to know you.

• 1:17:16Speaker 04

  Me too.

• 1:17:18Bill Maher?

  I love it.

• 1:17:20Speaker 04

  Good, the podcast.

• 1:17:26Speaker 00

  At Edward Jones, we believe rich is about taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your financial advisor personalizes your plan to help you preserve your progress and create something that lasts. Let's find your rich. Edward Jones. Member SIPC.

• 1:17:41Speaker 02

  Get this. When you're with Xfinity, you're already a member. No sign up, no cost. Score epic experiences from our family at NBC Universal. Plus movie tickets, discounts on streaming, mobile, and more. Check the Xfinity app every Thursday for exclusive perks and experiences only with Xfinity. Now that's the way to start a weekend. Let the magic begin. Restrictions apply. Visit Xfinity.com/membership to learn more.

• 1:18:11Speaker 04

  Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games.

• 1:18:13Speaker 05

  Witness the beginning of the revolution.

• 1:18:16Speaker 02

  Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from the start.

• 1:18:18Speaker 05

  Filmed for IMAX.

• 1:18:20Speaker 02

  Make them remember you.

• 1:18:23Speaker 05

  The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping, November 20th, rated PG-13.