Ex-Freemason: Possessed Politicians, Demonic Rituals for Power, Secret Societies, and the Occult

Once you understand that world events are influenced by supernatural forces, what seems bizarre begins to make sense. Filmmaker Sean Stone on our leaders and the occult. Sean Stone is a filmmaker, author, actor, and media host. He has written books such as New World Order. His films include Greystone Park, A Century of War, RFK: Legacy, and the docuseries Best Kept Secret and All the President’s Men. His work can be found on SeanStone.info. (00:00) Why Do Leaders Commune With the Supernatural? (05:02) Demonology, Rituals, and Demonic Possession (45:25) What Feeds Demons and the Empire of Fear (58:49) The Spiritual Economy of Evil (1:28:26) AI, UFOs, and the War on Terror Paid partnerships with: Brooklyn Bedding: Get 30% off sitewide with promo code TUCKER at https://brooklynbedding.com VanMan: Use code TUCKER for 15% off your first order at http://vanman.shop/tucker Defend: Enter code "Tucker" for 20% off your purchase at https://defendcellcam.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:34Tucker Carlson?

  Shaun, thanks for doing this. It dawned on me the other day, years after it dawned on you, that there are no secular leaders of anything and that people pose as, you know, science-based and nonreligious. But everyone who has power in the world is religious, I have noticed. They just have different religions. And you've been on this for a very long time. So let's just start as big as we can. What's the purpose of communing with the supernatural for leaders? Why do leaders do it?

• 1:08Speaker 02

  I think there was some, maybe this is a quote or someone said this to me. There are non-powerful people who are Freemasons. But there are no powerful people who are not Freemasons.

• 1:20Tucker Carlson?

  Freemasons?

• 1:21Speaker 02

  Freemasons. If you think about the nature of an initiatory group that's been around in its current form for a few hundred years, since the 1700s, right, in the UK? But likewise in France. But it's, you know, they say its origin, or they believe that its origin precedes it to the Knights Templar, right? Who were a very powerful order, as we know. From my understanding of the Templars, it's not the idea of like nine knights showing up in the Middle East during the Crusades, right, to guard the roads, right? It was really more about excavating under the Temple of Solomon. That was, you know, what they were interested, or the ancient texts.

• 2:01Tucker Carlson?

  The Well of Souls.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  The Well of Souls. The ancient texts, the things that were, you know, written into like grimoires and hidden, you know, incantations, things that you could basically call upon the spiritual realm, because that's the lore of King Solomon. King Solomon, as we remember from the Bible, you know, he had wisdom. And he was a powerful ruler over what was then Israel, but

• 2:24Tucker Carlson?

  Richest man in the world.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, he had the gold, but why did he have the power was because he could call upon what they called jinn, genies. And he could command them with his ring, the ring of Solomon, the ring of power. And that's what he, so the real lore of like masonry, right, was that he had this builder, Hiram Abif, who could, you know, who architected the, the temple, the temple of Solomon. But they had jinn that they called upon to actually do the work and to build it. Now that's all metaphor.

• 2:55Tucker Carlson?

  And what are jinn?

• 2:57Speaker 02

  Genies, what we would call genies in Aladdin's lamp. They are the beings and so I went to Iran the first time was curiosity, but I went to go meet with some of these guys that communicate to them to the other side. And I would talk to them about, you know, what's going on in the world and they would say, yeah, I mean,

• 3:17Speaker 02

  the jinn in Islamic lore is very similar to like angels and demons or the watchers in the book of Enoch. Right. Who are not, they're both dark and light. Some, some serve God, some serve the dark side. And, um, and so the idea of like the power of Solomon was to be able to have a relationship and mastery. And some people say that he actually got overwhelmed by the power. And that's why he fell, right? He ended up with the, the love affair that sort of sank his, his, his rulership. Because he, it's a very, it's a very dangerous gambit. Once you start committing with that side. But all, I believe all the initiatory paths. Freemasonry is just one of them, the most famous one.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  Lead you to that realm, to the understanding that there is spiritual forces invisible to us that are working through people in this world. And just because someone is a so-called Christian, doesn't mean they're serving God. And someone, just because someone is a Muslim, doesn't mean they're serving the devil. And it's the same across the entire planet, that there are forces of dark and light. Working through every religion, every people, even through our own, our own lifetime, our own souls. You know, at any point, when you grow up in Hollywood or whatnot, you realize like, it does seem that people can sell their souls and maybe not even be aware of it. Because to me, it's not Satanism is like.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  Can be incantations, it can be blood sacrifices and rituals. It can also just be worship of the material realm.

• 4:52Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Right? So when you get into that realm of like, oh, I want power, I want worldly power. I think that's the satanic path. They not, they don't, they don't think of it as such. But materialism at its heart is worship of the earth. And that's why people talk about the earth is like, you know, it's kind of Lucifer's domain. Right? Because if you worship, if you become, start worshiping money and, you know, and yourself, your own ego. Well, you've lost sight of the transcendent power of God.

• 5:22Tucker Carlson?

  There's no question about that. There's no question. Um, and I think all of us experience that in our own lives.

• 5:31Tucker Carlson?

  But just to back to what you initially said about the Masons. So we were about a hundred feet from Masonic Lodge. They're all over rural America. They're kind of a vestige of the past. This is how I think of them. Bunch of elderly guys with ceremonial swords.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:49Tucker Carlson?

  Tell them stories.

• 5:49Speaker 02

  I have one.

• 5:50Tucker Carlson?

  You have one? Um, I have one right over there from that lodge.

• 5:56Tucker Carlson?

  You don't think of them as a threat or even a meaningful player in current events. But then I should say, I don't know much about it.

• 6:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:06Tucker Carlson?

  Uh, I don't, so at really at all. You joined the Masons. Why did you do that? And what, what was it like?

• 6:14Speaker 02

  So it was, it was, it was a journey of initiation, I think, that I was going through in that time. Right out of college, because you know, my college years, started getting deep into studying history. And, and even in the Procopius was writing the history of Justinian, right? The Roman emperor, Byzantine emperor. And he described him as a shape shifting demon, basically, in that book, in the secret history. And that was buried for a long time.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  And you know, again, there's all types of histories that King James was, was it James's Bible? But he also wrote demonology book, right? I mean, this was the way that it was, the world was perceived and understood for centuries, as we know.

• 6:59Tucker Carlson?

  As a battleground between dark and light?

• 7:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, as, as forces that were unseen. I mean, Socrates talked about his, his daemon, like his, you know, but be called genius. But, you know, they say like in the old world, there's a theory that when Homer's writing about, you know, the Iliad and, and about, you know, all these different gods having a play in human life. A lot of people believe that we were in communication more readily with beings, right? Unseen beings. And it may have been a real, real factor in our, in our consciousness back then. And then we, you know, obviously we get to this place of the enlightenment. When all that becomes relegated and we say, oh, that's all, you know, hocus pocus and not real. We can only focus on the physical realm.

• 7:45Speaker 02

  But you can't understand how life begins through the physical realm alone. You can't understand how the universe is formed.

• 7:52Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  Right? I mean, what, okay, how does a big bang start? You know, it just, just happens. Okay.

• 7:58Tucker Carlson?

  Spontaneous bang.

• 7:59Speaker 02

  Time travel, I mean, how does it happen? How does it actually begin exactly from what? And how does our, how does life begin? So I think a lot of the materialists actually, you could say, like, you know, people say Darwin and whatnot, are essentially serving the dark side because they're saying there's nothing outside the material realm. It's, this is all that exists and everything will, actually all we're interfacing with is our own minds.

• 8:21Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 8:22Speaker 02

  Our own perceptions. And so when they want us to believe, you know, a very simplified version of reality, spontaneous evolution, random evolution, random changes, right? Take away anything spiritual.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  I think that serves the dark side, in a sense, because it now it elevates our own egos. It makes us, you know, we're the progenitors of this and, you know, we are the greatest thing in the universe and we can get into that later, but that then serves a transhuman agenda that, you know, it's all about perfecting ourselves through the physical plane of genetics, right? Genetic tampering and whatnot. And you try to basically take the spiritual origin impulse of God creating this universe out of the story, right? That's what the Enlightenment did in many ways. But you can't take it out because we instinctively as souls that we are in human

• 9:16Speaker 02

  form, we have this curiosity and this desire to know, okay, where I come from? Like, you know, my soul didn't just spontaneously appear. How do I have consciousness? How do, where does consciousness originate from? Just from our brains? Well, I think we're understanding that our brains are more receivers, almost like, you know, computers that can receive the internet that's around us, right? That's the way that we function more in that way. And that's why people have near-death experiences, or they have out-of-body experiences and they, this is, you know, the CIA does this kind of stuff, astral projection, and they can see things outside of their physical body that you can't say, well, your brain knew it. You have all kinds of cases and stories of this, you know, people, you know, who are literally

• 10:00Speaker 02

  on a hospital bed and they can perceive things in the next room. So consciousness transcends our brain, right? And that indicates, again, a spiritual reality that a lot of mainstream science wants us to ignore. But I was like, looking at history and saying, no, we've always had this impulse to see a spiritual reality, or what Plato calls like the ideational realm, the world of ideals, before, before we get to the material realm. So let's not try to ignore that.

• 10:29Tucker Carlson?

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• 13:24Tucker Carlson?

  Well, anywhere else?

• 13:25Speaker 02

  So I would, you know, study these things and ended up going into, uh, well, I met this guy who was, uh, himself a Mason. And, um, he was a Jersey kid who was like my age and we started, he, he would, he had been exploring these haunted places. New Jersey is notorious for being haunted. They have a whole magazine called Haunted NJ, right? And not just Jersey, but they, you know, the, let's say the East Coast.

• 13:48Tucker Carlson?

  But especially New Jersey.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  Especially New Jersey. They've got some history there. I don't know what it is. And so he was exploring these places like Greystone, which was a massive mental hospital. Woody Guthrie was there, for example, and you saw it in the recent, uh, Bob Dylan movie. He goes and visits Guthrie at the Greystone Mental Hospital. This place was about, for a hundred years, it was one of the biggest mental hospitals in the country. It was the biggest foundation when they built it until they built the Pentagon after. So it was a massive, like, we went to this place at night and even though it was shut down, it was still, the lights were still on and it's about five or six stories tall and underground. There's tunnels and passages that go on for miles around.

• 14:34Speaker 02

  So we would go explore this place at night.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  And, um, and let's just say that high strangeness ensued. Because he started to-

• 14:44Tucker Carlson?

  It's an abandoned mental hospital in New Jersey?

• 14:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It's an abandoned mental hospital in Jersey. And so from the first time that we went there and then went back and each time it would just, different things would reveal themselves to me in a way that I made a film about it, um, Greystone Park to kind of symbolize the, the way that fear operates to me. I believe that our frequency attracts forces. And so when you go into a place like that where-

• 15:15Speaker 02

  Thousands of people have died. They had like a mass grave, basically, you know, thousands of people that had died there over the course of a hundred years. And there'd been a lot of abuse. And I think also people go into this place, or would go into that place, who are themselves, you know, we call mentally ill, but a lot of them, I think, were demon possessed.

• 15:32Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  And so imagine it's now becoming a place of very dark energy. And uh...

• 15:40Tucker Carlson?

  Hard to imagine anything darker than that.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  Right, yeah. And so what we saw was like indications, paraphernalia, books, things like this left behind of um, like satanic rituals, like people would go there and perform rituals to draw upon that energy. And...

• 15:58Tucker Carlson?

  Why would someone do that?

• 16:00Speaker 02

  Well, so this gets into the nature of our, of this realm, right? If we, again, like, we understand like, material realm is what we see and what we interact with, what we think we're interacting with, but as we know, at heart, it's just, it's all energy. Like this table is moving particles, right? Our being is, we're moving particles, moving atoms, we're energetic bodies that, you know, appear to be fixed, but actually, as we know, we're changing every second, every, you know, every day, our, you know, where cells are dying and being reborn, our, you know, our energy body is, is moving. And so the spiritual traditions have always understood that because, you know, they didn't

• 16:42Speaker 02

  call it necessarily energy, but prana and life force, breath, rah, right? Like, that's the origin of, of creation, is something in spirit is moving through us into this container, this vessel that, you know, that appears fixed. But again, as we know, it's changing, that's why we don't, we don't look the same every day, even if it's just slight differences. And as you know, like, you can see in people's, you can just, you can kind of see it sometimes, right? Like, you can see when someone's energetically drained, you can see when someone's energy is high and they're vibrant.

• 17:15Tucker Carlson?

  Instantly.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So this is all, this is, this is the energetic nature of reality. So if we are talking about a world that also is energetic and alive, and then you have geometry, let's say, certain structures trap energy more than others. Right? I mean, if you're outdoors and, I mean, we can just experience it, right? You're out in nature, you're in a forest, the trees are gonna have certain energy. It's gonna, it's gonna move, you know, maybe like they'll, in the course, they are living beings, right? So they'll, they'll live their life and die.

• 17:53Speaker 02

  And that's why some forests are called haunted forests or darker, you know, they're darker places. And sometimes you'll have historically, yeah, you'll have places where there'll be gatherings of people to practice, you know, since the pagan times, let's say, right? To practice different rituals. And sometimes you'll feel the energy of that. Like, oh, this is a place where, you know, there's a gathering that takes place and a certain energy gets created there.

• 18:18Speaker 02

  Same way as like a building. I mean, that's what a haunted house is, right? Like, if you're in a house and it's, you know, you, someone gets murdered, it's gonna have a heavier energy, right? Because it hasn't, unless you come and bless it and really, I don't know, do the right energy, do the work to move the energy through, to let it pass, right? To let the souls go.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  And I had that experience with one of the haunted places I went to. It was like a place that was notorious. It was next to the, it was next to a mental hospital where kids were housed. And this was upstate New York. This was different from Greystone. And in that house, next to the mental hospital for kids, the legend has it that a priest that was molesting these kids at that property and actually killing some of the kids and doing black magic. And in that house, I saw people get possessed and, you know, we heard the sounds of hell, like, coming from, I mean,

• 19:22Speaker 02

  it's hard to imagine that this is what we experienced. You know, we'd be upstairs and all of a sudden we'd hear howling of dogs and laughter, like demonic laughter and things like this echoing through the house. And so we went back multiple times and we blessed the house. And the final time really felt a purging of energy. And the house burned down on its own within about a month or two. So that's the kind of thing we talk about like the energy that gets trapped in places until you come with higher frequency of blessing a place and you know clearing the energy. So again, we're talking of a battle of dark and light, those forces that draw

• 20:03Speaker 02

  upon dark energy because they can then invoke spirit, let's say darker spirits that hooks into that. If everything is, let's say like frequency, fear, you know, things that are horrific, horror films play into the psychology, right? It's like Freddy Krueger, right? He preys upon, he's a dream demon, right? He infects people with fear. And we think about how like demons are what? They're scary, right? They're monstrous, they're shadows, they're things that that create fear in us. And then it seems to be like the frequency match, almost.

• 20:44Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think that's one of the reasons that Jesus so often tells his disciples not to be afraid?

• 20:51Speaker 02

  Yes, that's exactly right. So remember when Jesus casts out the demons, he sends them into the swine, right? He's like, yeah, get them out, get out of

• 21:01Tucker Carlson?

  And maybe immediately kill themselves.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  And they go and kill themselves because a lot of the demonic, I mean, again, there's different frequency of demonic energy. There's madness, a lot of psychosis we have experiencing in this country, I think, connects to it. A lot of it ties into alcohol and drugs. That's, you know, lowering people's frequency, you know, it's one thing to have, you know, a glass or two, but as we know, a lot of alcohol, what does it do? It takes us out of our right mind. In my experience of seeing people get possessed, it's pretty much like seeing someone's, you know, when someone's out of blackout drunk, and we've all seen it, someone's coked up or out of their mind with alcohol, and they behave erratically,

• 21:44Speaker 02

  irrationally, they get aggressive, they get mean, or they start laughing hysterically. And the next day, they may not remember anything. It's exactly what possession is. Because when you see someone get possessed, they just like, it's like a flip of a switch, and they go from someone you can see, look in the eyes and see what they are, to just checked out. I've seen

• 22:10Speaker 02

  People screaming, I've seen people laughing maniacally. I've seen just, you know, just check out like just staring blankly. But you know it, you just, you know that this person's not in their right mind.

• 22:23Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  And the key is to try to bring the light back, breathe, bring the, you know, good energy back, raise the fright, raise the frequency so they can come back to their, their self, their selves. So what I would say this battle is between the darkness that again feeds on that fear, that lower vibrational, you know, psyche of like not being in our right mind, not being in our, in our higher selves, right, not being connected to our spirit, our higher, you know, to, to God, basically, right, to spirit that is always available. But the dark side wants to lower that frequency to a place that would be closer to hell, right? Well, we, what has always been described as hell, place of torture, of suffering, of pain.

• 23:05Tucker Carlson?

  Place of the dead.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, even worse than death, right? Death is one thing. Go below, go below that, you know, and it's like, that's the level of self destruction. Like you said with the pigs, you know, self destructiveness. So this is the battle. And, and again, if the dark side has, you know, waged war on mankind, let's say, right? If we believe, and this is, you know, this is not just Christian tradition. I mean, this is like a lot of-

• 23:36Tucker Carlson?

  See all the story there is.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a lot of stories around the world have talked about this, you know, that there's something that's waging war on mankind. They want, they want possession of the soul. They want us to check out, to give, to surrender, right? To check out, say, hand over control of the vehicle. And that seems to be the real battle, right? Are we autonomous beings? We have control of our vehicles? I mean, we all experienced this during COVID. Imagine like, you know, all this, it seems so far out, but like during COVID, we actively saw people checked out from fear and like dead body, like dead things, you know, putting on masks so they can't even really breathe, they can't- In a court of law, you can't, you're like, you know, you can't speak if you've got a mask

• 24:21Speaker 02

  on, right? So like, you don't have any say. So when you put a mask on, you're basically taking away your power to speak and to breathe. So you're like a dead, you're like a dead thing now. And then beyond that, we saw the hysteria that came with it, you know, from fear. All that fear around, you're infected, you might be infected, this person could be infected, you didn't get your shot, you better stay away, you can't come to the family gathering, you can't come into that, to my establishment. And if you're in California, I mean, I left the state because it was like, I can get a fake vaccine card, but I don't want to engage with people that are mandating this, right? What kind of hysteria, what kind of madness is this, right? So we've all experienced that kind of possession, not like some people personally experienced it and then said, wait a minute, I was in fear and I've woken

• 25:06Speaker 02

  up. And others just saw it and saying, it's like everyone's possessed all of a sudden by this, you know, by this fear.

• 25:13Tucker Carlson?

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  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

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• 27:49Tucker Carlson?

  So the Masons practice a religion? How would you describe what masonry is?

• 27:56Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, masonry is based in the Old Testament. You know, most, a lot of the Masons I know are Christian. But again, it's, I look at it as an initiatory path. So I don't look at it as Masons are evil. What I experienced was that there's, okay, so, I'll put it like this, the first night that I went there.

• 28:23Tucker Carlson?

  Where was this?

• 28:24Speaker 02

  The Cornerstone Lodge in New York, which is a very famous lodge. People like Jay-Z, you know, go there and whatnot. It's, you know, it's.

• 28:33Tucker Carlson?

  Jay-Z's a Mason?

• 28:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, from my understanding, he, he was, you know, he was with that lodge as well, but higher, higher than I was.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  But the point is that it's it's um it's an initiation that kind of what I felt was being observed and watched and I know it was watched because after doing the first degree initiation where you get the blindfold and the noose and all this stuff is online I'm not revealing some secrets all the the phrases and things you know the geometry of it where you have to walk you know certain directions and points and say certain things all that's online now it's public but when you perform it ritualistically like a play

• 29:22Speaker 02

  there are other forces that are not human that are engaging in the the experience and I know that because when I was leaving the lodge that night with my friend um we got a phone call and it was an unknown number and this sort of husky voice was on the phone and he was like how was the meeting and I was like it's interesting game you guys have going here and it's like mm-hmm and we were just talking a bit saying a lot of things that were like biblical you know forty days in the cave forty some stuff that I didn't understand but I knew that they were watching me because I was walking back to my apartment

• 30:04Speaker 02

  in New York and um and I'm like oh so you're watching me he's like yeah I'm like okay what am I doing he's like you're walking so I stopped walking and I'm like oh yeah he's like yeah you stopped walking and I was like okay it could be a guess but let's just go you know continue the conversation go upstairs and I had like a gray shirt on and black pants and after you know I started recording the conversation the audio did not record subsequently only the video recorded but as I was recording this basically was it was this man's voice and then it would be a woman that would take over so it was like two voices it was one as a man one as a woman and then she basically said stop recording and I was like

• 30:49Speaker 02

  You know, I didn't stop. I would maybe like stop for a minute, then I turn it back on. And I had a, at that time I had a, a cross on, uh, sorry, uh, it was a, not a cross, it was, it was a Islamic sword. That I had as a necklace. And so I was taking my shirt off and she's like, put your shirt back on.

• 31:10Speaker 02

  And I was like, oh, you don't like this, this symbol or what's wrong, you know? And it was like, put your shirt back on. And I'm like, you know, we just continued to talk, but I, there were a few things that I remember distinctly, including her saying, I'll leave you with this. You're wearing a gray shirt with black pants. So something was, had been observing me that night and they continued to talk with me and,

• 31:33Speaker 02

  it, it, it was essentially, they texted me thereafter and it was like, it went on for an hour or so, like off and on. My friend who took me there got really sick to his stomach. He was like vomiting actually after that, during that same time that I was on the phone. And he really was like physically out of it. And so I was conversing with these things for like an hour. And again, a lot of it was about the fallen angels. Because

• 32:01Speaker 02

  this goes back to, again, the gin, the unseen world, the idea that, remember the book of Enoch talks about this, that the fall basically is not just Lucifer's, it's like Lucifer and the, what was it? The three, the 300 or 3,000, the 300, I think that fell.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  But a lot of it had to do with the origin of like, how the angels fell in love with human, human women, right? That's the story of Enoch was that Yes. they fell in love with human women. They had children. The Nephilim, Nephilim, yeah. fallen ones, uh, or also, I guess they're also fallen ones. And, uh, this whole bloodline war, basically, of like, you know, fallen angels having children with human women and becoming like the great leaders of old, you know, the, the, Men of renown. Men of renown, exactly. The leaders of the military and the, and the emperors or kings of the time. Royal bloodlines. So all this came up that night.

• 33:05Tucker Carlson?

  What's interesting is if you bring up that story from Enoch, it's alluded to in Genesis six as well. People look at you like, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. Where does that come from? Is that like a David Icke concept or something? But then if you just assess it non emotionally, that's pretty much every religion tells that story, including Christianity.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:28Tucker Carlson?

  Jesus is the product of spirit and a human woman.

• 33:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:32Tucker Carlson?

  God and Mary. So the Greek myths are the same.

• 33:37Speaker 02

  Alexander was, his mother said that Zeus came to her.

• 33:40Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly. So I'm not, you know, I mean, that's not proof, but it's certainly an indication. This is not like a crazy new theory that David Icke thought up.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  Not at all. And that's why I always say.

• 33:51Tucker Carlson?

  It's like the basis of every religion.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that's why people get so, they, they want you to think about Icke as like, he's the crazy guy. But that's why I studied history, because I wanted to say, no, I could just picking up on old traditions and he's just listening to people that are telling him stories, which I think.

• 34:07Tucker Carlson?

  You can hear that story in any church in the United States every Sunday. So, right. So it's not, conceptually, it's not a departure from what people have thought for thousands of years, that there is the physical reality of actors from the spiritual realm impregnating human women.

• 34:25Speaker 02

  Right, right. And going again, I mean, even the Anunnaki texts of the Sumerians before, you know, which predates the Old Testament, talking about exactly this thing about the Anunnaki sky gods, creating the first humans as their workers. And, you know, and again, like the flood story, the flood mythology comes from that, you know.

• 34:44Tucker Carlson?

  Right. That God was so displeased by the behavior of the Nephilim that he destroyed the world.

• 34:49Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:49Tucker Carlson?

  And their behavior that he, that he specifically called out was violence.

• 34:55Speaker 02

  Right, right. And eating of, actually eating of humans, the Nephilim did. Remember?

• 35:01Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. The giants ate the humans. Do you remember?

• 35:05Tucker Carlson?

  That's in the Book of Enoch.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  It's in one of them. It's either, I mean, I thought it was in the Bible, but it's definitely in Enoch then, because that was the issue, that they were, the giants were eating people. And so this, you know, then takes us to the very, you know, present day of, you know, when.

• 35:25Speaker 02

  Demon, you know, the lore around demons drinking human blood or like, you know, demon possessed humans drinking human blood, Dracula mythology, right?

• 35:32Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  This is all, it's, it's, it's drawn upon the old world, but it, you know, when I, when, when Hunter S. Thompson talks about adrenochrome and people say, oh, he made that up. And I go, yeah, except I talked to a military intelligence guy who goes, adrenochrome is real because it comes across our, our, our messaging boards all the time. You know, adrenochrome is being trafficked into the country.

• 35:58Tucker Carlson?

  So adrenochrome is a compound from the human adrenal gland? Is that correct?

• 36:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, my understanding is it's like an adrenaline, basically it's adrenaline that gets secreted and, um, like, obviously adrenaline from anxiety, from stress.

• 36:13Tucker Carlson?

  Fear.

• 36:13Speaker 02

  Fear. And it's, you know, it's something specifically that, um, is being used for, you know, as a, as a drug? Or is it, you know, is it demonic food? I don't know. I mean, again, it's, it's not something that I've personally experienced, but you know, it's like, we're connecting the ancient world to the modern world. And it seems to be, you know, if it's one long thread, we can't, you know, we can't just ignore that.

• 36:39Tucker Carlson?

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• 37:23Tucker Carlson?

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• 37:37Tucker Carlson?

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• 38:56Tucker Carlson?

  It's very interesting to me that some of the main themes throughout human history, blood, being the life force, the spirit.

• 39:04Speaker 02

  The magic and the blood, right?

• 39:05Tucker Carlson?

  The magic and the blood, genetics, bloodline. These were full-blown preoccupations for every civilization before 1945, and they've just been eliminated from public conversation.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  By media. But media is the greatest magician of all, right? I mean, that's, it's so interesting that you mentioned 45. Obviously, that's the end of the Second World War.

• 39:28Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 39:30Speaker 02

  British podcasting was originally part of British intelligence. Like it was always, they understood that propaganda was key. I mean, that was first world war effort, bringing us into the first world war, getting us, you know, getting us involved. And then obviously the second world war, the same, there was a huge amount of propaganda that was, that was put out for it. But then we adopted those same techniques post 45, I would say with the various radio projects, you know, whether it was like, you know, and from radio to television, right? The same concept, a lot of the guys, as you know, that were like intelligence OSS officers or, you know, part of OSS then became like executives and whatnot for the original, you

• 40:13Speaker 02

  know, TV channels, which as you know, at the time was like, what, like four? It was like ABC, CBS.

• 40:19Tucker Carlson?

  Plus PBS, yeah, four.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  Right? And so it was very, it was very important to send out messaging. And then likewise with radio, it was the same thing. It was like, okay, first radio was used, you know, for, for information before television, but then radio became the music. And so it became like top 40, what was it? The top 40 project, like essentially it was like, let's, let's figure out how to basically condition people using music. And it's no longer going to be symphonic, right? Like long symphonic pieces of music. It's going to be short, three minutes or less of, you know, something that can like hook people.

• 40:56Tucker Carlson?

  Cultural propaganda.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  Culturally propagandize over and over, hypnotize people essentially. I mean, that's what music does. Think about the, when we engage with, it's so interesting engaging with young people now and seeing how much like, you know, when I was a kid, hip hop was, it was kind of coming, you know, it was coming on in the nineties. But nowadays it's like all those lyrics, a lot of the, a lot of the more debasing, you know, lyrics, let's say, how do you end up with an OnlyFans culture? Well, it starts with the lyrics that are put out through hip hop music that's propagated to every, you know, young kid across the country. And then that becomes part of the cultural conditioning, languaging, all these things. So I think music is one of the most important magical tools that.

• 41:41Tucker Carlson?

  No doubt.

• 41:41Speaker 02

  You know, that's, that's used to obviously influence culture and then obviously not just music and film. And nowadays with streaming, it's, it's putting people in hypnotic states for. Hours on end, right? When you stream things into the consciousness.

• 41:56Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, or social media are hypnotic, you've noticed, and very addictive. So.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  TikTok especially. I mean, people literally just fall asleep to it, you know, scrolling, streaming.

• 42:06Tucker Carlson?

  So, part of the point of the propaganda effort is not just to highlight lies, but to prevent people from considering things in full context or seeing the whole picture.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  Always.

• 42:17Tucker Carlson?

  Eliminating certain important themes from the public conversation. And certainly, anything supernatural would fall into that. Blood and genetics would also be part of that.

• 42:32Tucker Carlson?

  But the people who run the world never stopped paying attention to the supernatural, to blood and genetics, did they?

• 42:38Speaker 02

  No, I don't think so. I mean, from my experience, and again, I mean, I have a limited experience of it, but

• 42:47Speaker 02

  you talk to some of these families, and I mean, first of all, in the UK, you feel it especially in England. The aristocratic culture, the mindset.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  To this day, they still have a king, you know.

• 42:59Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  Okay. You know, they still have the aristocracy and the bloodlines, families and whatnot, and their traditions. And then, you know, you think about like, you know, some of these families talk about, they can trace their ancestry back to the Roman Empire.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Or even before, sometimes.

• 43:21Speaker 02

  But again, it's just, whether or not you're aware, again, like whether or not you're aware of it, I think some families more so than others.

• 43:31Speaker 02

  The families that are more aware of it, I think, have a certain conditioning process that some people talk about when it comes to the pedophilia. I think that's more normalized.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  It's kind of part of the boarding school culture.

• 43:46Tucker Carlson?

  Yep.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  Oftentimes, like that was my sense of it when I was, because I was at Oxford for two terms and, you know, hanging out with, you know, some people, some families that are more known than others. And they would, you know, some of them would tell me, like, you know, the boarding school culture was very. You could say, you know, homosexual. And that kind of dates back to, in terms of the ideology, to Rome and Greece. Remember, like, the idea of, you know, passing on wisdom from the male, from the older male to the younger male.

• 44:17Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 44:17Speaker 02

  So it becomes acceptable. And then, yeah, and then you, you know, you, you do hear these things about a lot of these, these families that are like practicing pedophilia with their own kids. And they look at it almost like a, a training, like a, a training process. Because it dissociates. So traumatic abuse of a young person dissociates them, makes them able to then, you could argue, like, you know, like the monarch butterfly, that's a symbol. The monarch is often described as a symbol of the childhood programming. So basically, like, when you are traumatized so young, you dissociate, you now have greater

• 44:59Speaker 02

  ability to act without moral compunction, without even like knowing your own limits, right? Your, your own self. You basically have broken all those barriers.

• 45:11Tucker Carlson?

  Well, you do have to ask questions about a system that sends, you know, its sons to boarding school at seven or eight years old.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  Mm hmm, mm hmm. Or even younger sometimes.

• 45:21Tucker Carlson?

  Or even younger. Yeah, my grandfather went, uh, you know, at that kind of age. And I, it wasn't good for him. I don't, I don't know why you would do that, but it has something to do with breaking down normal qualities in a young man. I'm not saying it's a pederasty thing, but it does have to do with.

• 45:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, abuse has many forms.

• 45:45Tucker Carlson?

  That's right.

• 45:45Speaker 02

  There's the physical, there's the verbal. The sexual is just usually like the one that no one wants to talk about.

• 45:51Tucker Carlson?

  No, that's right.

• 45:52Speaker 02

  But obviously occurs.

• 45:54Tucker Carlson?

  So, um, okay. So you, how long were you a Mason?

• 45:59Speaker 02

  I mean, it's not like you, you, you ever like establish, like, I'm going to meetings. No, I wanted to initiate to three degrees. I, I entered. And in between, by the way. Okay, so this is why I know this gets far out, but like in between. We're already pretty far out. The initiation, the first degree and the third degree from in that time period, I would get phone calls from 666 numbers all the time. 666, 6666. We want your soul, like just demonic voices. We want your soul. That's kind of nonsense. So Satan called your cell? I mean, I don't know if you know, if it was Satan or the CIA, but someone with a 666 number that sounded satanic called my cell and would be like, we want your soul. And I would just laugh. I'd be like, okay, I mean, it's not mine to give, you know, my soul belongs to God. So I don't know

• 46:44Speaker 02

  what you're talking, I can't, I can't, I can't help you basically. I don't know. I think I'm jumpier than you because if I was, you know, in between degrees in the Masons and Satan started calling me, I would drop out. Well, it's not about dropping out or not. It's about initiating in your, in, um, they said it's initiating and understanding of the world. And that's why I believe the checkerboard is very real. Like the way that it's designed is the checkerboard on the floor. It's black and white. Not all Satanists are evil. I do believe that there's the path of light and there's a path of dark. They want to assess who you are. And as I say, they, I mean, like a higher, higher realm wants to know what you are. So I believe that people that join, who choose the darker side, you know, I think I've seen it. Um, they basically are willing to do anything. They're

• 47:27Speaker 02

  willing to drink the blood. They're willing to make the oath essentially to the dark because they just want power. And if they know that you're not, your soul isn't wired that way, you don't end up on the satanic path. So again, like a lot of these were just, just kind of tests. I felt like they were just kind of tests, just kind of like I got a call from Azazel one time. You know, Azazel's the angel of death, right? Azazel calls and then like a day or two later, my grandmother passed away. One of my grandmother. The angel of death called your cell? Yeah. Well, it's like it now, I mean, it basically identified itself as Azazel.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  And

• 48:03Tucker Carlson?

  What did you say?

• 48:05Speaker 02

  No, I just, I knew what Azazel was. So I knew a spirit of death was around.

• 48:10Speaker 02

  And then, like I said, my grandmother passed, like, I think within, within one or two days of that call. So I was like, wow, okay.

• 48:17Tucker Carlson?

  What, what did the angel of death say on the phone?

• 48:20Speaker 02

  It wasn't, I don't remember, like, again, it was, it wasn't like I remember specifically an announcement of something. It was just more of like, in that time period, again, it was getting so many calls from these things like wanting my soul. And sometimes it was witches cackling, like, you know, come play with us, like, come, you know, come join us. Sometimes it was, one time, and it's funny, I played this on Alex Jones show, actually, back in 2012. It was a call from, again, 666, and they were doing ball worship. They were like calling on ball. And they were like, it sounded like they were doing a ritual. These demonic voices are like ball, la la, you know, they're doing a ritual on this. Yeah, on, on the phone call. So it was almost like they were, they were trying to like engage my energy for what they were doing.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  You see, that's, goes back to the question around the dark side wants more energy because again, it's disconnected from God.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, is it disconnected? Let's just say they're more disconnected. I don't think anything is disconnected from God. My perception is it's all God's universe. So I don't think the dark, I think the dark still ultimately serves the creator's intention. I don't think you can, you can't divorce yourself from the universe, but let's just say their frequency is lower. So they're drawing upon higher vibrational energy to try to, right, to try to draw us down. That's the battle, right? It's like, how many of those of the light can we bring to the dark? How many can we sink to our level? Or if we can't, they stopped after 2012, after my last degree of initiation. And after 2012, I never got calls again. So I just felt like it was this kind of testing phase. And it's like, okay.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  You don't belong to us. Who knows? Maybe they've taken new forms and, you know, not saying everything like life is obviously full of challenges. So I think the dark can manifest in different ways. But for me, it was like, it was a very overt confrontation with something that people would think is, you know, a fairy tale until you've lived it.

• 50:21Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think other people at the lodge, the cornerstone lodge in New York were having similar experiences?

• 50:25Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I know the person I went with did, but like some of the other guys that I knew, I don't think they, anything changed in their life because, yeah, I mean, we all have different paths, right? We all like, you know, my, my path was frankly initiatory. I wanted to explore these things, you know, I went all the way to Iran just to talk to, you know, guys that were talking to Jins and trying to understand how the world, you know, is working.

• 50:52Tucker Carlson?

  What drove you?

• 50:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, just.

• 50:55Tucker Carlson?

  Well, you grew up in a materialistic society in Southern California where the possibility of this stuff was not discussed.

• 51:01Speaker 02

  Well, no, I mean, I went, I wasn't, you know, my dad took me to India and Tibet when I was, you know, nine, no, 10. And, you know, we went to the Himalayas and went to like, visit, you know, Tibetan monasteries that we went to, what's that, the Thalapalas? And, uh, you know, they depict demons and stuff very overly in the, in the iconography, right? If you look at the artwork, right, of Tibet, Nepal, the Buddhist cultures and even Hindus, right? Like, you know, they understand that there's demons and angels and they wouldn't call it, they wouldn't call it angels, I guess, but like demi gods, right? I mean, they would describe like demi gods, right? More, you know, angelic, more divine, powerful beings. And then you've seen like the dark faces of the demonic realm.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  They look at everything, I think, as like different temptation. So it's like, you have to get comfortable. You have to face the demon, you know, you can't. If you, if you hide it, that it gets scarier, just like in a horror film, right? It's always scarier and you don't know where the monster is. Once you can, once you can face the monster, you take away its power. Whereas, you know, as going back to the dream demon, the Freddy Krueger, it's like, I, you know, I take my power back. I'm not afraid of you anymore. That's the only way to defeat the monster.

• 52:15Tucker Carlson?

  I believe that.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:17Tucker Carlson?

  Fear and hate also feed the demons.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, my dad made a whole film, Natural Born Killer is kind of about these, this thing, you know, it's pretty interesting. I mean, Natural Born Killer is if you watch it as two demon possessed people, which is really what they are, the main characters, Mickey, the main, you know, is as, he's been abused by his father who kills himself. He's been physically abused by his father. The Juliette Lewis character has been sexually abused by her father. And it's like all this kind of chaotic American media, you know, glorification of these two serial killers, but they're going through their journey of hell, basically, like a hellscape, until they find that love, love kills the demon,

• 53:02Speaker 02

  right? That's their salvation is through love. But if you watch the movie, it's just like two demon possessed people. It's pretty interesting.

• 53:11Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so if we think that hate and fear feed dark forces, spiritual forces,

• 53:18Speaker 02

  unconscious hate, you know, I think there's healthy, there's healthy, we hate certain things that we find intolerable.

• 53:24Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  But if we hate the person, if we demonize the person, right? That's, that's feeding the darkness.

• 53:29Tucker Carlson?

  Wanting to hurt other people, you know, having malice toward others.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 53:33Tucker Carlson?

  Um, and then fear being terrorized. If those are both spiritual foods for demons, how should we understand our government's concerted effort over many years to make us terrified and hateful?

• 53:51Speaker 02

  Hmm, not just the government, media example, media with it, right? Like media and government working hand in hand.

• 53:57Tucker Carlson?

  Right. I mean, those kind of are the messages, really. There's someone you need to be afraid of, and there's someone you should hate, required to hate.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Well, think about the nature of the Masonic lodges. There's the red lodge and the blue lodge.

• 54:09Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know anything about that.

• 54:10Speaker 02

  So that's the famous, like, there's like, there's, there's the blue lodge, which is more like the French ancestry, the Scottish rite is the red lodge. And so, think about like the Bloods and Crips, the Democrats and the Republicans as red and blue.

• 54:26Tucker Carlson?

  Also, the Bloods and the Crips, red and blue.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  And the Crips. So like this whole idea of, you know, but people articulate as two wings of the same bird, ultimately. It's like, both are there to govern your mentality, government, govern your mind, right? So it's like, do we want, you know, do we want more laissez faire? Well, Republicans are supposed to be more libertarian, more constitutional, more like, you know, but they don't, but they tend to just, you know, end up spending as much

• 54:52Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:53Speaker 02

  as, as, as the, as the blue team, you know, both obviously are just

• 54:59Speaker 02

  dependent on the same Federal Reserve system, right? So you could say like, we've been captured by the, you know, by this debt slavery, this debt slave Federal Reserve system since 1913, which is, again, right around the time that, well, as we know, the income tax came in, which

• 55:15Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 55:16Speaker 02

  totally unconstitutional. And, and then also the, the First World War begins and the British bring us into their, their empire because, you know, more formally, because before that, we were, you know, we were not supposed to be part of the European game. We were focused on, you know, the Monroe Doctrine was about, you know, focusing on our hemisphere, right? Bringing the republic, you know, our republic as a model, you know, for this region and protecting this region from the imperialists of Europe, be it, you know, French, British.

• 55:50Speaker 02

  I mean, remember during the, during the Civil War, Mexico had a coup by the French and the British Empire actually cooed the Mexican government right around the same time. They were trying to install their puppet there.

• 56:03Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. Didn't work out, but Mexico then, you know, again, there's all kinds of puppeteering that goes on, as we know, through the different forces financially. So that's really, I think, the key is like, America wanting to be a republic, independent. Of the European empires with the First World War, we made, Wilson made a huge decision, which I think was a huge blunder, committing us to that war. We should have been an arbiter. We should have said, you know, we're not in favor of either empire. We're going to just arbitrate, you know, a peace, a peace deal, and should have stayed neutral, but we didn't. We committed ourselves to the British Empire and, and we set up, obviously, as a result of that with the Versailles Treaty, you know, the

• 56:46Tucker Carlson?

  Hurt so many people.

• 56:47Speaker 02

  Second World War followed and we, you know, obviously, again, you can get into the whole history of the financiers behind, you know, Hitler and his rise to power. And so it was like, we're going to play, you know, Germany against, you know, the Soviets, who also got financial support from, from us. So it's, it's the, you know, it became a financiers game. And that's why I say like, the power behind the scenes really, to me, is, is the financial empire. And, you know, the Rothschilds are obviously a part of that. I don't think they are the be all, end all of it, but they're a very important force financially. City of London is a very important force and the Federal Reserve system, which spawned from that central banking system of England. So that's when we talk about like, what, you

• 57:31Speaker 02

  know, who's, who's the, the American federal government's serving? It's been serving its, you know, the, the expansion of a debt slavery monetary system, right? Because we're borrowing money every time we, they, they, you know, they're printing money, but they're not, they don't own it. It's not like, it's not constitutional money. And the constitution, gold and silver is constitutional money. Everything else is these paper money notes are promissory notes. That's why it's a Federal Reserve note. When you see a dollar bill, it says Federal Reserve note. It's a promissory note, promised to pay.

• 58:04Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  Right? So it's all like, it's all debt. And we're just racking up, you know, as we know, whatever, 38, 40 trillion, I don't know.

• 58:12Tucker Carlson?

  Some unpayable amount.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  Doesn't matter. I mean, exactly. It's, it's not going to be, you know, we have to reconfigure that.

• 58:17Tucker Carlson?

  But it raises the question. So if individuals can make a deal with supernatural forces to serve them in exchange for, for temporal power, for success in this life, money and authority, and that's clearly true, can nations do the same?

• 58:35Speaker 02

  I think so. I think it's, it's, it's a kind of, well, yeah. I mean, again, it's like,

• 58:46Speaker 02

  The power of belief, right, as a nation? And either...

• 58:53Speaker 02

  So we can go back to John Dee, for example, Enochian magic.

• 58:58Tucker Carlson?

  Who was John Dee?

• 58:59Speaker 02

  So John Dee was, he was basically like the head of intelligence for Queen Elizabeth, right at the beginning of the British Empire.

• 59:06Tucker Carlson?

  Elizabeth I.

• 59:07Speaker 02

  Elizabeth I, yeah, sorry. Go back in time to the 1580s. Yeah, exactly, the 1580s. And Dee is the original 007, that's how he signed his signature. So Bond is actually inspired from John Dee. And he was into magic. He basically was working these, what they called Enochian magic. Because, again, derived probably from the Book of Enoch, but he was communing with these beings, watchers, what he considered angels. But, and he had this, you know, these incantations.

• 59:39Tucker Carlson?

  And... He was summoning spirits?

• 59:40Speaker 02

  He was working with spirits. And the theory is, the basically the Shakespearean Tempest play is inspired from John Dee as the wizard in the story, is basically John Dee. That he essentially made the deal for the British Empire to become the most powerful empire in the world. And it begins with the sinking of the Spanish Armada, which, again, as everyone knows, it was like, it was a freak, it was a massive storm.

• 1:00:08Tucker Carlson?

  Begun on a tempest.

• 1:00:09Speaker 02

  On a tempest that basically, you know, helped to sink that, their plans and their fleet. And, yeah, the theory is that he basically made the deal to, you know, for the British Empire. But the deal requires a certain level of blood sacrifice. And, you know, some people say that we've inherited the British Empire and those demons, essentially, those same deals.

• 1:00:36Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I can't.

• 1:00:37Speaker 02

  Especially since 45, since the end of the Second World War.

• 1:00:40Tucker Carlson?

  It is interesting if you think about it. So here you have this island nation with a pretty small population, take over the entire world.

• 1:00:48Speaker 02

  Quarter of the planet was under there.

• 1:00:49Tucker Carlson?

  Quarter of the planet was under there. That's right. So, yeah, largest empire, some ways the most amazing empire. But certainly a vast empire. How'd they do that?

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's more than guns, germs and steel, right? I mean, it's a...

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  Economically, the financials component is fascinating. You know, how they were able to, obviously, you know, do with the shipping and whatnot, insurance on shipping and, you know, they controlled, you know, when they controlled the seas of the Western world, all the way to India, even to China, right? They even, they were able to control the seas and then they can, they basically would trade, you know, they had the certain traffic where they would, you know, they would take the cotton, they would buy the cotton cheap from, you know, slave labor in America, sell it over, you know, sell it over and, you know, across their empire in India, buy the tea, buy the tea and the opium from there, from Afghanistan, which was under India at the time, and then dump the opium on the Chinese and get the silver for that.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  It's a pretty good trade, right? It's a pretty good deal.

• 1:02:02Tucker Carlson?

  But the core power, you believe, came from a deal.

• 1:02:07Speaker 02

  Well, what I see, I see the world as like, it's a both, it's a spiritual and a material reflection of each other. So it's, so what I believe is like, when people understand how these workings happen, it's like, if you have an intention and you, let's say, undertake a magical working that has enough belief behind it, let's say enough energy behind it, it can manifest in physical form, and this is the nature of magic. So, to me, there's always two paths with magic. See, Christ says, "Thy will be done," which is the Creator's will. The magic of, what I would say, like, the dark side is "My will be done." And that's what, like, Sir Crowley and other people like this.

• 1:02:46Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:02:46Speaker 02

  You know, Crowley said he was an incarnation, reincarnation of the guy working with John Dee in the magical ceremony. So, their mentality is, love is under will. So basically, like, love is not the primordial power of creation for them. Individual ego will is more important than love.

• 1:03:08Tucker Carlson?

  That's a dead end. It's interesting, because it points to something that I think all of us feel, which is that there's something dark about success.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  It can be.

• 1:03:19Tucker Carlson?

  You know, there's that famous line, "Show me the fortune and I'll show you the crime."

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, Balzac.

• 1:03:24Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, Balzac is really reason enough to learn to read French. It's just an amazingly hilarious, insightful, Peragorio is one of the great novels. Anyway, yeah, Balzac, "Show me the fortune, I'll show you the crime." So, um...

• 1:03:41Tucker Carlson?

  That resonates because, and it's not to attack all rich people. I mean, we're both, I guess, by some standards, rich people, but.

• 1:03:50Speaker 02

  There's a whole other level.

• 1:03:51Tucker Carlson?

  There's a whole, right.

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  I mean, when you're, but again, you're talking to dynastic people that have like, you know, made fortunes on, again, dump selling, selling opium to the Chinese and, you know, or selling slaves, or selling weapons, or, you know, financing wars like the Rothschilds. I mean, that's, that's a level of crime, you know, and, or pimping people like, you know, like Epstein, with, you know, types, you know, pimping girls and boys. I mean, that's a whole other level.

• 1:04:16Tucker Carlson?

  Nature of, of grand success in this world, isn't it? I mean, that's maybe the reason that Jesus says it's harder for a rich man to get to heaven than a camel through the eye of a needle. There's something about it, and maybe that something is the deal that is inevitably made with satanic forces in order to get whatever that success is.

• 1:04:36Speaker 02

  I mean, you know how many times.

• 1:04:37Tucker Carlson?

  Is that a crazy hypothesis?

• 1:04:39Speaker 02

  You know, people tell me like, the Mexican cartels are doing straight black magic.

• 1:04:42Tucker Carlson?

  They are. That's a fact.

• 1:04:44Speaker 02

  Right. And I mean, imagine like, these are people that are trafficking humans, they're trafficking, you know, drugs, they're, they're killing, they're, they're cutting off heads, they're killing with impunity. I mean.

• 1:04:54Tucker Carlson?

  And not just killing, but torturing. So that, to me, is always a sign that there's something religious going on. So you torture others for one of two reasons, either to elicit information, you know, I'm gonna waterboard you, tell you, tell me where the terrorists are.

• 1:05:11Speaker 02

  Which unfortunately, as we know, is not necessarily accurate information.

• 1:05:13Tucker Carlson?

  No, it's not, it's not. But like, okay, but as a motive.

• 1:05:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:17Tucker Carlson?

  Or you're doing it for its own sake, because there's something about human suffering that brings you power. And that's when we touch, and pleasure.

• 1:05:28Speaker 02

  Which is another.

• 1:05:29Tucker Carlson?

  And maybe adrenochrome. That's when we are bumping up against the supernatural realm, right? Because why would you, if you're gonna kill somebody, why would you torture him first? But they always do.

• 1:05:40Speaker 02

  But see, I would posit it more that, when are we not in the supernatural? See, I think that's, that's the shift in consciousness that is required. The Great Awakening is that we're, you know, people have talked about, especially since COVID, is like.

• 1:05:54Tucker Carlson?

  Oh no, we're having one, there's no doubt.

• 1:05:55Speaker 02

  We are always under the eyes, like, we are always living a supernatural experience. We just. We haven't thought that way. We've been trained to think of it as a material existence.

• 1:06:05Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:06:05Speaker 02

  And the shift now is to say, no, it's we're everything we do has supernatural ramification. Because it's always choice between serving, you know, again, serving higher self, let's call it, and serving ego. That's to me like that's the eternal battle. Every choice we make, every, and you know, it's small decisions, big decisions, all this, it all counts. And obviously, small decisions probably won't have the greater impact, the bigger decision will. But if we can shift our consciousness to start realizing, how I behave at every moment, is it aligned with my higher version of self or not? This is what we have to do to achieve a better world. If we want to shift into a better reality, you know, then that falls upon us to say,

• 1:06:49Speaker 02

  am I following my heart? Am I listening to my heart? Am I listening to intuition? Am I being, you know, am I being moral and good in this moment? You know? And I don't, you know, I don't think that's the whole point. None of us are perfect. But the whole point of the Christ model is it's a model for us. You know, this is the way of perfection. Listen to, listen to the words, try to imitate the Christ. And I think we would have a much healthier reality.

• 1:07:15Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, and I mean, Jesus is really clear that every word you utter, every word will be used to judge you.

• 1:07:22Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:07:22Tucker Carlson?

  Like, every word matters.

• 1:07:24Speaker 02

  Exactly. It's all, it's all, it's all life force. It's, it begins with thought. That's why, like, even the Buddhists, you know, the ancient religions, they always write thought, work on your thoughts to then correct your speech, to then, you know, change your actions. So it all builds.

• 1:07:40Tucker Carlson?

  It's in that exact same passage where he says, you know, the evil heart produces evil actions.

• 1:07:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:45Tucker Carlson?

  No, it's, it's so right. Um, so that brings us to the United States, which is the heir to the British Empire. So if the British Empire was the product of this deal that John Dee made to bring the tempest to destroy the Spanish Armada, launch Britain into control of the West, and then that control ends in 1945 with the dropping of the atom bombs on, roughly speaking. So where does that put the United States government?

• 1:08:21Speaker 02

  I mean, we've been subsumed by the New World Order ideology for a long time. Now, the New World Order ideology came out of the British Empire. It wasn't a conspiracy theory, it was their own language. Because I went back, I was doing my history thesis at college, and I was like reading some of the minutes of these conferences. They kept saying New World Order. It was their own language. They wanted to basically continue the empire in a more informal way. Because they realized the empire was, you know, it was getting a lot of flak, right? They couldn't sustain it militarily, they didn't have the manpower. They wanted to bring America and clearly, as I mentioned, Cecil Rhodes, who was, you know, the great imperialist of South Africa, Rhodesia,

• 1:09:03Speaker 02

  getting the diamond mines set up and the gold mines and whatnot. And his benefactor was Lord Rothschild. And he, you know, Rhodes was in his will saying, "We want to reclaim the Holy Lands, and we want to bring America back," basically within the empire. So that was the agenda from the end of the 19th century. The bringing America to be like the military might of the Western financial system, right? That takes place clearly between World War I and World War II. As you said, we then take over for the British Empire, all of its former colonies, and the French colonies, including Vietnam. You know, why do we end up in Vietnam War? It's a French colony. Into China, yeah. Yeah, into China.

• 1:09:48Speaker 02

  Why do we, you know, take on Turkey and Greece, you know, to defend against the Soviets? That's all the British imperial realm. The Middle East, again, the French and British carved up the Middle East. All these countries are essentially, you know, creations of the British and the French. So we inherit the empire and basically ally with this idea of, of, you know, the world game. Russia had been the enemy of the British, they became our enemy.

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  And that's a whole complicated issue, but essentially, you know, partly it's it's dynastic families, you know, wanting the wealth of the others. And that's perhaps why they they cooed the czar, you know, to get their their fortune and get them out of power and put the Soviets in partly as an experiment, partly as a way to keep the Russia out of, I don't know, I guess you could say like, um, separated from the Western world to create like an enemy going forward. Because as we know, we backed Hitler at the beginning to go against Russia. That was the whole deal. It was like, you're gonna fight the Russians, kind of like, uh, we backed Iraq to fight the Iranians in the eighties. You know, it's the old divide and conquer technique. Um, so yeah, so Russia had been the British enemy.

• 1:11:05Speaker 02

  We we inherited that. And then, um, we basically bought into the New World Order ideology. That's why we kept going into this globalist mentality for decades, you know, of committing ourselves.

• 1:11:18Tucker Carlson?

  But there's a supernatural element, too. It seems obvious. It was only in the last year, after a lifetime of living next to it, that I realized the Pentagon is the shape of a pentagram.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 1:11:30Tucker Carlson?

  Why of all potential architectural designs would you put your headquarter your military in a pentagram?

• 1:11:37Speaker 02

  Hmm, hmm. Again, the stars that soldiers wear, it's like, as you know, like, if you've seen movies or whatnot, like the pentagram is or Pentagon, pentagram is a very common image for, um, can be for protection. There's there's an invocation of protection through it. And then there's also the inverted pentagram, which is oftentimes used for sacrifice. Like you'll, you'll, again, like, you'll see it in films, right? Well, they'll put the Pentagon, Pentagon on the floor and within a circle, and then they'll do a ritual sacrifice within it.

• 1:12:10Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's the central image of Satanism.

• 1:12:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. The inverted, the inverted horns, right? It's like the horns seen version of the Pentagon. So, again, it's, it's, it can be used either way.

• 1:12:20Tucker Carlson?

  Symbolism, I notice, in our, our culture, for some reason.

• 1:12:23Speaker 02

  People are waking up.

• 1:12:24Tucker Carlson?

  But it's, we went through this period where, you know, for all of history, symbols really matter.

• 1:12:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:30Tucker Carlson?

  They really matter.

• 1:12:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:32Tucker Carlson?

  In a lot of world, they still matter. And then in the West, for the last 80 years, symbols are just null and void. Like, your average person is not allowed to notice the symbolism in anything.

• 1:12:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. No, we have to.

• 1:12:41Tucker Carlson?

  Poetry dies, metaphor dies.

• 1:12:42Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:12:43Tucker Carlson?

  The spiritual life withers, and we just don't notice that. Our military is headquartered in a building called the Pentagon. And by the way, I learned this from me at breakfast this morning. I have no idea what it means, but I was amazed to learn that the cornerstone of the Pentagon was laid on September 11th, 1941, 60 years to the day that the flight was Flight 77, I think, was flown into it.

• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  77 is a magical number, too. So, you know, again, I think of these events as mass rituals.

• 1:13:20Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, I mean, I'm, look, I just learned this this morning eating my omelet. So I haven't thought about it at all, but I, that's kind of the point I'm making.

• 1:13:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:31Tucker Carlson?

  I heard that plane. I was close enough to hear the plane or whatever. I heard that impact of something.

• 1:13:36Speaker 02

  Well, we never saw the video, right?

• 1:13:37Tucker Carlson?

  I'm aware.

• 1:13:38Speaker 02

  Never.

• 1:13:38Tucker Carlson?

  I'm aware. The whole thing is bizarre, but I'm only making the point that I was very aware that it happened. I had a friend on that plane, et cetera, et cetera. Why am I now, 25 years later, for the first time, learning that the Pentagon cornerstone was laid on September 11, 1941?

• 1:13:56Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:13:57Tucker Carlson?

  Like, you'd think in the coverage of it, they'd be like, hey, this is kind of, this is kind of.

• 1:14:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, the 60th anniversary. You'd think so, right?

• 1:14:03Tucker Carlson?

  I never heard that. Did you know that?

• 1:14:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'd read, I'd read about it, but I don't even think I'd read.

• 1:14:07Tucker Carlson?

  Was that like on World News Tonight?

• 1:14:09Speaker 02

  At the time, I mean, I was, I was as clueless at the time when it happened. I just thought, I, look, here's all I knew about 9/11 was that nothing made sense because I was in Somaliland in the summer in July, and we got notices from the State Department, fax saying, you know, be careful to all foreign, all nationals, all American nationals abroad. Like, there's basically rumor around like a terrorist plot. So be like, be a high alert.

• 1:14:38Tucker Carlson?

  I was in Maine that summer and they didn't send us any notice at all.

• 1:14:41Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:14:43Tucker Carlson?

  I guess I should have been in Somaliland.

• 1:14:46Speaker 02

  So, so I mean, we already were like, kind of was like, oh, it's interesting that we got the notice that obviously some intel, intel, something's coming across intel, you know, channels to say that. And I'm not sure if anyone ever reported on that in the, you know, in the investigation of like the intelligence labs. But again, I just, I never believed the official story. And the more I looked at it, the more it just didn't add up, you know, the takedown of the towers by.

• 1:15:17Speaker 02

  I mean, just structurally speaking, you know, you have, you know that the plane hit the the Empire State Building back in 46. Remember that?

• 1:15:26Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:15:27Speaker 02

  You know, it was a military plane at the time.

• 1:15:29Tucker Carlson?

  Bomber.

• 1:15:30Speaker 02

  Bomber in a collapse.

• 1:15:31Tucker Carlson?

  Well, Donald Trump is on tape on the morning of nine 11 saying, I can't buy, I don't know. How could that have happened? I know those buildings well. I was there when they were built in the early seventies and the steel in those things is stronger than any building in New York. And there's no way.

• 1:15:46Speaker 02

  But now you think about the nature of ritual and what was created was a Holocaust, which is literally a mass burning. And this is, I don't know if you remember the movie called Wicker Man?

• 1:15:58Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:15:58Speaker 02

  The Wicker Man. It was a, it was kind of a film about these pagan Satanists, you know, who they do a ritual around one of the equinoxes. I think it was like a summer equinox. And they do like a, they have this guys in this town realizing that these guys are witches. And all of a sudden he finds himself inside of this massive wicker man being burned alive. And it's played out every summer, by the way, in a festival called Burning Man.

• 1:16:24Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:25Speaker 02

  Here in Nevada, I guess, right? In the desert, the Burning Man ritual. The burning of the man annually. So, I mean, this, again, these are ritual things that people partake in without understanding what they're giving their energy to.

• 1:16:39Tucker Carlson?

  That's right. That's exactly right. So, I mean, up until the Second World War, it would have been obvious to every Western man that life revolves around ritual and that ritual describes to us concepts that our brains are not capable of fully grasping. You know, the communion in Christianity, it's like,

• 1:17:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:01Tucker Carlson?

  There's a great debate over exactly what that is, but it's the center to the practice of the religion. And it doesn't make any sense from a scientific point of view. You're ingesting the flesh and blood of Jesus like what? But to Christians, again, it's the Holy Eucharist. And that makes sense to people because there's no other way to describe the things that are of this life that are that profound. So, but our understanding of how central ritual is to life has just been stripped from us completely. So we totally miss it. We don't even know that the Pentagon has hit on the 60th anniversary of its, of the beginning of its construction. That's so.

• 1:17:42Speaker 02

  But it's, well, you think about the nature of, well, first of all, like television has a lot of it has like disrupted like ritual cycles and whatnot, like the cycles of our, you know, of our energy of going down with the sunset, like, you know, coming in, sitting around the hearth, telling stories.

• 1:17:58Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:17:58Speaker 02

  Listening to the spirit, to the, again, being more connected to the spiritual world. Now, the spiritual world does come in through television. It's just not the way we imagine it because we think this is like something different, but it's all going into our psyche. And so the, as you know, the brain, it's processing it the same, you know, how do you say it's processing and taking this information just as it would reality. So it's, it's, it's definitely affecting the way we interface with reality.

• 1:18:23Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:18:24Speaker 02

  And, and again, this goes back to what we're talking about the power of the magic of media. And I think, you know, people that are storytelling, they, you know, they can be, some are, some are practicing darkness. I think others are practicing light and I think there's those that are just unaware, unconsciously perpetuating things. But there doesn't be something very dark in Hollywood. And it's, it's like a subversion.

• 1:18:56Tucker Carlson?

  You grew up there, so did you sense that?

• 1:19:02Speaker 02

  What I sense with Hollywood is

• 1:19:07Speaker 02

  there's definitely more like there's definitely like let's be clear uh there's definitely a Babylonian quality to it right there's definitely uh

• 1:19:18Tucker Carlson?

  People Reagan

• 1:19:19Speaker 02

  Debauchery

• 1:19:20Tucker Carlson?

  Oh

• 1:19:20Speaker 02

  There's debauchery I mean you know it's like everyone knew Harvey Weinstein

• 1:19:25Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah

• 1:19:26Speaker 02

  Was a monster

• 1:19:27Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah

• 1:19:28Speaker 02

  Not just with women he was a monster with business

• 1:19:31Tucker Carlson?

  Of course

• 1:19:31Speaker 02

  And

• 1:19:32Tucker Carlson?

  I I knew him I knew that

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  Right I mean everyone knew that he was but he was just accepted

• 1:19:38Speaker 02

  And it's just like kind of like the casting couch it's just like oh it's just accepted this is the way things are You know the Epstein I'm sure people you know I'm sure a lot of people knew what Epstein was I never Heard about him before you know before twenty whatever sixteen seventeen eighteen what in that timeframe but like I'm sure a lot of people that were around him just knew like oh yeah you know he's into this or he's into that because it's People talk right but it's amazing how unless you're part of those circles you don't really know what's going on And that's why to this day people will say well JFK assassination uh it must you know they couldn't have kept the secret and like People in the know have talked but you're just not in the know because it hasn't been perpetuated through media

• 1:20:21Speaker 02

  So unless it gets perpetuated through media we don't hear about it and we don't think it exists

• 1:20:26Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah I mean that you you just said the truest thing that I didn't understand until later in life even though I spent my whole life in the media

• 1:20:35Tucker Carlson?

  The idea that like if it's more than two people no one can keep a secret well none of these secrets have been kept they're all out there I've heard a lot of the stuff a million times I just discounted it and it was Not part of the prevailing story we were told so I just didn't think it was real

• 1:20:50Speaker 02

  Like like didn't um wasn't not Cardi B what's her name one of these rappers just came out talking about like all this stuff in the Epstein they're eating She said in the music industry they're they're they're eating babies and drinking blood y'all you know Which which rapper was it was it Cardi or was it

• 1:21:05Tucker Carlson?

  I don't know it's every week there's a new rapper

• 1:21:07Speaker 02

  Yeah

• 1:21:07Tucker Carlson?

  The truth but no one takes them seriously because they're rappers

• 1:21:09Speaker 02

  Yeah Exactly, but she said something to this effect, and you know, like Mariah Carey's sister said, you know, she was a kid, she grew up. She talked about it before she died, Mariah Carey's sister. And it's in the best kept secret docu-series that I put out. But basically, she said like she grew up with things that were like done that were, you know, indescribably horrible, you know, like you can't fathom. And she died, she died like a few years after that, she, but she came out saying it. Well, people will sometimes come out and say things and it'll be like a blip. And I think this is my way of thinking is more like.

• 1:21:46Speaker 02

  If in the middle of the night, I see something fly across the sky, which I've done, like driving in Beverly Hills. Driving home at like two in the morning, I saw like a craft, you know, fly overhead, not so fast, it was more like a. It was almost, I don't want to say like, it almost would be like an advanced version of a stealth bomber. It wasn't a stealth bomber, but it was like a craft that was moving very fast, low to the ground, right over Beverly Hills. So I look at that and go, okay, I've just glimpsed reality. Someone else might go, that's just crazy. I'm just going to ignore that.

• 1:22:18Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:22:19Speaker 02

  You know, so to me, I'm like, okay, this is, this is, this is what's really going on. I want to look over here now. And that's just the way that I see things and other people will just be like, I once saw UFO, but you know what? That's just so crazy. I'm just going to go back to the mundane world.

• 1:22:32Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly right. That's exactly right. But big picture of people trying to, are trying to understand, not simply are they eating babies? But why would someone do something like?

• 1:22:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, well.

• 1:22:45Tucker Carlson?

  You get to the nature of the deal that every person faces, I think.

• 1:22:52Tucker Carlson?

  The potential, which is the same as the temptation of Jesus, but um, before me and all this will be yours.

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:57Tucker Carlson?

  But in exchange for whatever you're getting, bloodshed.

• 1:23:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:02Tucker Carlson?

  Is the cost.

• 1:23:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. Because the pravity, it's like. You know, once you've, once you've, it's like the dog that's like tasted blood, right? It's the, uh, you know, you can't go back. You've, you've crossed a threshold, you've crossed a barrier that we're not supposed to cross, right? Thou shall not kill. Okay, well, if you do, you're probably going to have remorse. If you do it, just, you know, especially just for defense purposes, you're still probably going to have some level of remorse.

• 1:23:34Speaker 02

  I know sociopaths don't.

• 1:23:38Tucker Carlson?

  No, that's right.

• 1:23:38Speaker 02

  So there's like a whole other caliber of psychology and maybe demon possession there. But as humans, we would have remorse. But once you've gone back, you can't take that back, can you? Like you stained your soul.

• 1:23:53Speaker 02

  That's something that you can't, you know, you can steal something and make amends. You can, you know, you can, all crime is theft. But there's different degrees of theft. Right? You can steal people's time, you can steal their energy, you can steal belongings. But if you steal life, there's no, how do you return that?

• 1:24:11Tucker Carlson?

  There's no restitution. I'm extrapolating out to the, you know, to the scale of empire here and trying to understand why empires tend to commit themselves to war even when they don't get anything out of it.

• 1:24:28Speaker 02

  And I, and I'm Someone's getting out of it. I mean,

• 1:24:31Tucker Carlson?

  I just wonder though, if like the cost of staying on top isn't killing people just by its nature.

• 1:24:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well,

• 1:24:41Speaker 02

  and again, I mean, different arguments. I mean, you go back to like, what was the point of Vietnam? You know, if Vietnam fell to the communists, like what the heck does that have to do with anything?

• 1:24:50Tucker Carlson?

  What's the point of the Russia-Ukraine war? Why would you want to keep that going? The only thing that you're getting out of that is, you know, weapons testing and money transfers and all that stuff. But ultimately what you're getting is millions of dead people.

• 1:25:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:25:04Tucker Carlson?

  Maybe that's the point. Maybe it is blood sacrifice.

• 1:25:06Speaker 02

  Right, right. To a degree, I think that's, from a higher perspective, there does seem to be truth to that. And I think, look, this is a realm of mind, right? We've, since the fall of Adam and Eve, we fell into mind. So before this, there was order, there was perfect, it was perfectly guided, let's say. And then we fell. And that story's not just Adam and Eve, it's Atlantis, it's all these things, right? They fell into the mind.

• 1:25:31Tucker Carlson?

  What does that mean, the mind?

• 1:25:34Speaker 02

  Everything we experience is the mind. We don't know anything outside of our own minds.

• 1:25:40Speaker 02

  Right?

• 1:25:41Tucker Carlson?

  So before the fall, we existed.

• 1:25:43Speaker 02

  Well, we didn't have, well, I mean, presumably, we, we, if, if we trusted like the Lord basically just had perfected and ordered everything, we didn't have choice, we didn't have free will, we didn't have mind, we didn't have anything to mirror. We saw ourselves for the first time, the mind is like a mirror, self-awareness, I am separate from you. If everything, before that, it was just oneness, right? It was just, you know, you just, you knew, you, you were, you, you could be. I mean, it's kind of like an angelic order, let's say. I mean, again, we're, we're making assumptions here, but essentially what we know is that with self-awareness comes the idea of separation. And so we are in a realm of mind where everything gets mirrored

• 1:26:28Speaker 02

  in some way. Every thought has to, has to manifest.

• 1:26:31Tucker Carlson?

  With self-awareness comes separation, that is.

• 1:26:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, the illusion of separation. I mean, ultimately, I believe that we're all from the same oneness, and I believe it's God's universe, so there's really nothing to be afraid of, right? Because we're all, you know, if we choose, we, we can go, we can, you know, ascend higher, we can go back to the light. But there's no, they say, the illusion of separation is that, it's just an illusion. Our ego feels separate, our ego feels like, you know, I'm me, this is my body, this is my name, this is what I've done. So that's why I say it's a battle between ego and higher self. Higher self is like, no, we're just instruments of the Creator. I can let go of ego now. I don't have to feel like anything belongs to me, anything I do is, you know, not mine, you know, glory to the Creator,

• 1:27:17Speaker 02

  we're just instruments here. We're just playing our roles and, you know, hopefully, this is, well, I believe, you know, this is all for our evolution and understanding and recognizing, hopefully developing more empathy, more, you know, more compassion, more love. That should be, you know, I think our goal on this planet. But yeah, in the realm of mind, mind has to go somewhere. So if I have hateful thoughts, it has to go somewhere. It's a project, how does it, how does it, as we know, like, if I have hateful thoughts or angry thoughts, it has to, it's gonna be the way I treat my children, my loved ones, my family, my friends. It's gonna go somewhere, it's gonna go into war. It's gonna manifest somewhere.

• 1:27:58Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:58Speaker 02

  Right? And that's where we are still. We're in a place of strong polarity. Right? Everything is being, you know, as lighted as it is, as dark as it is in this realm. So it has, like, the energy has to go into, into war until we clean up our thoughts and stop hating each other. Until then, we're gonna have war.

• 1:28:20Tucker Carlson?

  But there's also a sense in which bloodshed, war, violence, killing is the food that keeps the dark energy.

• 1:28:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it starts with us. It starts with us. Like every, like, that's the whole, that's the, that's why I just say, like, the good news is they don't have any power unless we give it to them. If we give them power, if we give them attention, if we give them energy, if we feed them our fear. That's what Christ was saying. Let, you know, let go of the fear. Just have faith. Let faith replace, replace the fear. And that was what I had to go through in my, you know, two, three-year journey of like, having these dark experiences and like, being haunted by things that were like, energetically tan, like tangible, my reality. It was like, okay, I surrender. Like, I surrender to the higher power. I have, I have faith. So you can't have my soul because it doesn't belong to you.

• 1:29:18Speaker 02

  And I think that's the point, is if every one of us just, in our own lives, takes inventory, okay. Let, we have fears. It's, you know, it's natural. Some fears are like, deep, right? And paranoid. Others are, you know, just existential, like, there's a, there's a predator, there's a threat. Okay? But if we can, like, face our fears, own our fears, and find deeper faith, we will create a better reality because the dark will have less food. It's our, it's our choice.

• 1:29:45Tucker Carlson?

  Does it feel like some social media are designed to inspire fear and hate?

• 1:29:52Speaker 02

  Of course. Because again, it's just, it's being perpetuated through.

• 1:29:58Speaker 02

  Through people that are unconscious, I would say like the, I don't think there's that many like dark sorcerers in the world. I think there are a few. I think there are definitely some people that commune and know what they're doing, you know, like ritualistically. But I think most people are just unconscious and they're just seeking worldly delight, worldly temptation, worldly power.

• 1:30:18Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:30:18Speaker 02

  Right? And they're just unconsciously, not sure why, but they're just like, well, that seems safe. You know, I don't want to lose my, I don't want to lose what I have. I don't want to, you know, I want to maintain and preserve, but you can't. This world is ephemeral. It's passing. Right? We know this. It's the way it's designed. We're supposed to be able to let go. And again, commune with a higher power and that's the greater energy. And that actually was what really preserves you. And that's when you get to that place of, you know, what the saints and things, people like that can glow and that can actually like emit, you know, emit light. Right? You know, the, you know, all these examples of what like what Christ is. This is where we're supposed to, where we're supposed to imitate is to try to bring more

• 1:30:59Speaker 02

  light into the world. And so if we're not, how do you say?

• 1:31:06Speaker 02

  If people are not there, but they're putting out these things, they're just reflecting themselves. So a lot of these, going back to Hollywood, like a lot of these creators are just, that's the level that they're at. Their consciousness is at that level. Their consciousness is full of, you know, their mind is full of, you name it, perversion, negativity, angst, fear. So they're perpetuating that. They're not coming from a higher modality. They're not coming from a higher place. But it's just, that's, they can only reflect what they are.

• 1:31:35Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think it's more obvious in Hollywood than in other places?

• 1:31:40Speaker 02

  At power centers. I mean, there's a lot of power centers. London is, London is a power center. Hollywood's a power center. New York's a power center. I mean, every city is like a hub because how much energy gets, you know, how do you say, like, there's so many more people there. There's so much more attention. But obviously Hollywood is this magnifier of, you know, of consciousness. And so I think that wherever the consciousness goes, even collectively, you could say Hollywood shifts accordingly. I don't think Hollywood itself is, you know, like they're, they're sitting there going like, this is the way it is. It's like, they're a barometer of where consciousness is. And so it's, it's, how do you explain it? It's almost like reflecting each other.

• 1:32:26Speaker 02

  They put out darkness. People want that. They feed into it. That's where the collective is. The collective wants to experience this. They want to go into darkness. They want to go into experience the darkness. Okay, when you get to a certain point, you wake up, you say, I'm tired of the nightmare. And I think that's where we are. That's what the awakening means. I'm sorry, you know, it's like people saying, okay, you know what? Enough of the nightmare. Let's, let's, let's change the story and people rejecting Hollywood accordingly and saying, yeah, unless you guys shift the narratives, we're not going to watch your content anymore. The more we shift, the more Hollywood will shift. So it's, it's, it's a dance. Hollywood can't, cannot survive without the audience. You cannot, you know, drug dealers can't, can't survive without the drug addicts.

• 1:33:10Speaker 02

  We collectively have to shift our consciousness and everything will change.

• 1:33:16Tucker Carlson?

  I believe that. I notice it with AI. Um, most people, including, I think the people who are creating AI, aren't really exactly sure what it's going to be.

• 1:33:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:27Tucker Carlson?

  Um, what the effects are going to be, but the only publicity about AI that's coming out of the developers of AI is negative and terrifying. There's been, I've noticed since this for the last three or four years, there's been no real effort to explain to you or me or anyone how this is going to be great for us. And a lot of effort put into telling us this is going to end everything that we love, including human autonomy. Our jobs, our economy, it'll basically be a slave state run by machines. That's what they're telling us. The people who are making it are telling us that.

• 1:33:57Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:33:59Tucker Carlson?

  And so my instinct is they're trying to terrify us for some reason, and it may just be because that feeds the dark spiritual powers that are creating, creating it.

• 1:34:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, I think AI is just like everything. It's just both dark and light, you know, it's like the internet. Right? You can find the darkest things out there. You can find, you can find great information, right? You can find the books of the world if you want to read them. And it's just gonna be a question of where human consciousness will take it.

• 1:34:29Speaker 02

  You know, again, I believe that, you know, again, because this is God's universe, I do have like a more positive view of like where all this is going. When we were post nine eleven, it was a dark, I could feel the darkness and I could feel it before nine eleven. I could feel war coming from about two thousand, the year two thousand, two thousand and one, I was like, feel like I could feel the energy of war. And the darkness of the two thousands, I felt like war on terror was literally terror, it was, it was about terror. It was about terrorizing everybody, you know, it was literally like terrorizing the

• 1:35:01Tucker Carlson?

  It was a war of terror.

• 1:35:02Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:35:03Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:04Speaker 02

  It was terror for everybody, the American public, the broad. So the, um, that era was like, you know, this shift in, in consciousness was, um, you know, again, it was a pretty dark phase. I think now we are almost like operating in different realities simultaneously, which is kind of cool, you know? And I think it's almost, I feel more like choose your adventure. What do you want to do with, you know, with technology? What do you want to do with the world, you know, that, that you're in? And, um, and just trust that it's, this is all like, this is all like for our evolution as souls.

• 1:35:42Speaker 02

  To return, you know, to basically be reminded of the light, to return to the light ultimately, to reascend, I hope, you know, in time. I think that's, you know, that would be the, the goal, right? Is to return to a state of, of, um, you know, more closeness to God. That's, but you have to be separated to want to go back, right?

• 1:36:01Tucker Carlson?

  A lot of people are looking forward to going back right now, all of a sudden. So we're told that there's going to be some kind of disclosure about UAPs, UFOs by the federal government. What are UFOs?

• 1:36:16Speaker 02

  So I think we have reverse engineered technology that's been talked about for a long time.

• 1:36:24Speaker 02

  Certainly like Roswell is a famous incident. From what my understanding of it, something did crash and there was a huge military response. And then, you know, they did have a weather balloon and then they changed the story twice. It was originally like

• 1:36:35Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:36Speaker 02

  Weather balloon and then it was like some other thing. They basically, the guy, they had, the guy that was there initially, I can't remember the name, he was a military intel guy, he took it back to like his family, like a piece of the metal, and it was, it was like very strong, but at the same time, it was like you could actually like slightly bend it, but it would come back, and it was unlike any metal they'd ever seen. So, this was, this was described by him, and then his son, but he was basically forced to take the photo, the famous photo, I think his name was Marcel, like he was, had the famous photo, like, holding the, the weather balloon. Yep. And to say like, it was, it was just a weather balloon, and like, he basically was forced to take that picture.

• 1:37:20Speaker 02

  I think since that time, we've been reverse engineering. I've talked to way too many people who are part of black programs, or, you know, I've seen, you know, we have a secret space program, the US Space Force is older than, than Trump, like, they basically brought it from, like, the hidden, to the more public side now. But, for example, I talked to Dr. Fred Bell, do you remember, do you even know him at all, Fred Bell was a very famous guy in the alien, UFO community, because he had worked with the government, and he was also writing books about like, alien technology and consciousness and things like this, quantum physics, brilliant guy. So, we interviewed him for Conspiracy Theory, the show I used to do with Jesse Ventura.

• 1:38:04Speaker 02

  And, he was talking about mind war, like, using frequency for like, you know, affecting people's thoughts, and being able to affect people at a distance, right, through various technologies. But off the record, he was like, I shouldn't tell you guys this, because my CIA, my CIA handler would not be happy with me, but, I've been to the, one of like, some of these underground military facilities, and he's like, I've even met, what you would call like, a gray alien, like, he's like, I shook hands with one, you know? And he's like, they're, you know, they're down there, like, in these facilities, we have these, these joint partnerships.

• 1:38:45Speaker 02

  Within 24 hours of that conversation, off the record, he was dead. He died in his hotel room before he could leave Minnesota, where he was.

• 1:38:56Tucker Carlson?

  After your interview?

• 1:38:57Speaker 02

  During the interview, yeah. Yeah.

• 1:38:59Tucker Carlson?

  How did he die?

• 1:39:00Speaker 02

  Heart attack.

• 1:39:02Tucker Carlson?

  A lot of people involved in the space program in a kind of spooky science connected to the federal government have died or disappeared recently.

• 1:39:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:11Tucker Carlson?

  Like a lot.

• 1:39:12Speaker 02

  It's like 11 that they've confirmed missing or dead.

• 1:39:16Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, it seems like a lot.

• 1:39:18Speaker 02

  Nuclear, yeah, from everything from like fusion programs to NASA scientists. Certainly in the age of disclosure, which we've been living through the last few years. It's more curious. At first I thought people were saying like the Chinese, they were suspecting the Chinese. But do you remember, look, I mean, we still never got an answer to those drones.

• 1:39:37Tucker Carlson?

  No, over New Jersey.

• 1:39:38Speaker 02

  Last year, they were all over, not just Jersey, they were all over like from eastern seaboard, right? Virginia, I mean, multiple states, I mean, you get this kind of stuff all the time. You know, these anomalies.

• 1:39:50Tucker Carlson?

  I actually asked about that because Trump was going to disclose what it was. Remember during the campaign, he said, I'm going to get to the bottom of this. And, and then he said, ah, it's not a big deal. And I asked, well, I got a, it's not a big deal.

• 1:40:02Speaker 02

  Epstein, Epstein's not a big deal.

• 1:40:04Tucker Carlson?

  It's a big deal. But what were those?

• 1:40:08Speaker 02

  Listen, I, I look at this world, I mean, you ever see those paintings, some of those old paintings? And you see like these little drone looking things in them. I just look at this world like we are being observed, you know, the watchers. They're again, dark and light, they're observing this, this experiment of the fall, right? We've fallen, but God is always watching, God's permitting. And, you know, there's beings that are. Interested in our genetics, that's for sure. The eugenics thing is ancient.

• 1:40:41Tucker Carlson?

  Why are, eugenics is ancient?

• 1:40:44Speaker 02

  Well, we talked about it, like the idea of creating humans, some of which were of royal bloodline or from deities and others are just more like workers.

• 1:40:57Speaker 02

  I think it's ancient. I mean, isn't it curious, like the different races, you know, where do we, do we all just come from one race and we become like darker skinned lighter or are we actually like different bloodlines, right? They're different blood types. So is it just evolutionary or is there something else, you know, going on in terms of, I think, you know, genetics connects to consciousness because as we know, like the eugenics interest, it's extreme. I mean, by the way, we gave birth to Hitler because the eugenics conferences were here first. They were British and American eugenics conferences. And a lot of them, yeah, were racist, absolutely. But the interest in the idea that like,

• 1:41:37Speaker 02

  consciousness, as we talked about, the brain and the like is a receiver, then of course, different genetics are going to receive information differently. You know, the body, how we experience reality is through this body. So isn't it, if, you know, if we believe in souls and, you know, the, the journey that we go through in our life, our body is very connected to that experience. So of course, there's a fascination with, you know, how much is a contingent on our genetic makeup and our propensities, for example?

• 1:42:14Tucker Carlson?

  I, for about 50 years, the United States, it was basically not allowed for people to mention any of this in public because it was Hitler stuff or whatever they said about it.

• 1:42:26Speaker 02

  They changed the name. They called it, they changed it from eugenics to, what's a Cold Spring Harbor? They're doing a Cold Spring Harbor, basically the same research. It's just genetic, what's the term for it?

• 1:42:39Speaker 02

  Anyway, they just, they call it genetic research now and like, you know, bio, you know, they, they, they

• 1:42:43Tucker Carlson?

  Biocheck, I think we call it.

• 1:42:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, biotech and things like this, but it's the same principles. Not, not, not, maybe not based in the same racism, but some of it's, I'm sure some of these people are still racist, like Epstein, who was called everybody goy that wasn't Jewish, right? I mean, some of these guys are still racist. Um, but yeah, I mean, they, they just, they just changed the, the name.

• 1:43:03Tucker Carlson?

  Um, it's just interesting that even as the public has been absolutely banned from talking about this stuff, the people in charge are very fixated on genetics.

• 1:43:14Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:43:15Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. That doesn't surprise you.

• 1:43:17Speaker 02

  Why should it? I mean, why, again, if, if this vehicle, it's, it's pretty interesting technology. I mean, the body is incredible technology. That's what freaked me out so much during COVID was like the whole mRNA, uh, delivery system, right? That they were trying to inject us with, and as a lot of people were warning, that mRNA technology can start to affect your genome and might be passed on to your children.

• 1:43:44Tucker Carlson?

  I think it's been confirmed now.

• 1:43:45Speaker 02

  Right? So it's pretty, pretty scary stuff that they were just mass injecting.

• 1:43:50Tucker Carlson?

  Into hundreds of millions of people, but then, and now we know that it can affect your DNA. I think that's beyond dispute, but I haven't read any follow up and like, okay, what you're changing human beings generationally? What are the likely effects of this?

• 1:44:05Speaker 02

  And that's, that's the transhuman agenda. So transhumanism, transhumanism, you could say, is the evolution of eugenics to the place where a lot of these elites want to, um, biologically re-engineer the human. And arguably they want to get us to a place where they can merge us with the AI, the machine consciousness to make us, well, you could say like an, an H G Wells type of scenario, right? You have The elite who, and some of whom love, you know, the idea of like Elon Musk, you know, connect me to the machine, connect me to the computer so that I can be smarter, right?

• 1:44:46Speaker 02

  And, and then, you know, arguably those that are, you know, more mundane will either not have the ability or they'll be connected in a way that they can be more really controlled. Is this what we're going towards? You know, a cyborg type of future?

• 1:44:59Tucker Carlson?

  Seems clear.

• 1:45:00Speaker 02

  Right? It's certainly feasible. I don't think in the next five years, but probably 20, 30 years and beyond, you could see a whole new humanity.

• 1:45:08Tucker Carlson?

  What do you think the point of the COVID exercise was?

• 1:45:11Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:45:16Speaker 02

  Multilayered.

• 1:45:20Speaker 02

  They, they wanted, I mean, it seems that they wanted to shut down the world and, and print money en masse. They know that they didn't have a war, like to do it, right? Without a great war. They needed some kind of, you know, conflict. This exercise was a way of, I think, testing consciousness to see how pliable and compliant people are. And obviously it was, like I said, frightening just to, to, to see your friends and neighbors just becoming like the Borg in, you know, Star Trek. Just obey, wear your mask, do not question. If you question, you're crazy, you're dangerous, you know, you should be. At some point, they were talking about moving people to concentration camps, for quarantine camps. They were talking about, um, digital tracking. I don't think they

• 1:46:05Speaker 02

  achieved fully what they could have, or what if the dark side had won, let's say prevailed. We could have, be kidding me? We could have been, what Chomsky said, those of us that were unvaxxed, we could have been pushed out of society. You know, they could have created a total digital, you know, verification of how many shots you've had and, you know, if you obeyed or not. I mean, the, the social credit system of like, you know, a communist society, they could have gone all the way. I don't think they, they, I don't think they won that battle. But I think it was a big test to see where our human consciousness was.

• 1:46:39Tucker Carlson?

  I noticed you didn't mention public health as one of the reasons for that campaign.

• 1:46:44Speaker 02

  Shifting our, which, in which aspect?

• 1:46:47Tucker Carlson?

  Well, the inherent threat of the virus, that didn't play any role in this.

• 1:46:50Speaker 02

  The virus was a perfect virus insofar as it was very contagious and I think we all got exposed to it. And I think the virus does have long-term effects that we should work to clean out. But things like ivermectin and other can help us with cleaning that out of our system. But it wasn't like a particularly deadly virus. No, I mean, just look at the numbers. It was deadly with if you had two plus comorbidities and you were over 70 years old. Yeah, that was, that was dangerous, but anyone who was paying attention, you know, I was, we knew about ivermectin, we knew about hydroxychloroquine, vitamin C, zinc, I mean, just, you know, health protocols, being in the sun, fresh air, all the things you would normally think would be healthy.

• 1:47:35Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:47:36Tucker Carlson?

  Keeping your weight normal.

• 1:47:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:39Tucker Carlson?

  So last question, where, so many things are happening at once right now. One thing I've noticed during this conversation is you seem completely unsurprised, nonplussed by all these crazy things going on because you've just seen the world through this vantage for so long that like it doesn't surprise you. Is that fair?

• 1:47:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that when you, when you've grown up seeing conspiracy reality, which I saw since I was like six, seven years old and my dad made JFK.

• 1:48:10Speaker 02

  You don't, I don't try to assume anything because I'm not in a position of one of the elites that's, you know, apparently, you know, making these types of decisions, right?

• 1:48:21Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:48:21Tucker Carlson?

  But you see a UFO and you say, I'm looking not at an anomaly, but at reality.

• 1:48:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:48:27Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. So that's a different way of looking at the world. So, and probably a better one. But given that worldview, you see now the unresolved war in Ukraine, this new war in Iran, which seems like it is already a global war, who knows? The promise of UAP disclosure, the rise of these terrifying dystopian technologies, mass surveillance, AI, all happening in like a five-year span. What is all of this? They're clearly connected phenomena.

• 1:49:03Speaker 02

  They're definitely connected phenomena.

• 1:49:10Tucker Carlson?

  Any one of these things would have been enough to like fry my 30 year old brain if these had happened in 1999.

• 1:49:17Speaker 02

  I guess it was, well, look, the NATO war against Serbia was pretty, was, it was relatively isolated, but that region of the Balkans, but you know, that region was devastated by, you know, that era. I keep emphasizing to people, look, the world ended many, many times already. I think if we lived through World War II, can you imagine like the devastation of that time period? I mean, maybe 100 million dead, the entire world, you know, engaged at some level of the conflict. Just, I think that we can't really, we have to get back to like, kind of primary principles of, okay, is it really as bad as we might, the mind might want it, might

• 1:50:02Speaker 02

  want it to believe, you know, and the fear wants us to believe.

• 1:50:05Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:50:06Speaker 02

  So I don't like to give, get into those, like those, give into those fear narratives. I, I truly believe that the light is prevailing. People are waking up. Every time something, you know, is occurring, we're in a time now where it's like, thanks to the social media component, as much as we can say like, yeah, there's banal things, there's like degrading things, there's things that maybe like take us out of ourselves or into our lower self, there's also so much revelation coming at the same time.

• 1:50:37Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:38Speaker 02

  Right? So we can have these conversations now that, listen, I couldn't talk about the, the pedophilia cannibalism stuff back in the 2000s when I first found out about it. Because, you know, I was reading like the Franklin, about the Franklin scandal and the Franklin cover up and things like this, right? This was back in the, in the 80s and 90s that they were, the trafficking ring.

• 1:50:56Tucker Carlson?

  I remember.

• 1:50:57Speaker 02

  Right? And Franklin and had to do with Larry King, who was very high up in the Republican National Committee. And, you know, stories like this that I know about.

• 1:51:06Tucker Carlson?

  A different Larry King.

• 1:51:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, different Larry King, exactly. The black Larry King, not, not, not the CNN Larry King. And, you know, I couldn't talk about these things publicly, but gradually I've seen consciousness awakening. It's, my journey has been so interesting in that regard. Like I was doing conspiracy theory with Jesse Ventura back when it was shut down, because we were asking, you know, we were asking all the right questions, apparently, but the network, True TV, shut us down. Because he had challenged, I think it was because of the the episode that he did about FEMA, FEMA camps, maybe? Was that like he triggered something?

• 1:51:48Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:48Speaker 02

  But there were some things that we touched upon that were like, okay, the show is canceled. So nowadays, you know, if he'd wanted to, you know, we could have shifted it to like, you know, a TikTok channel or something. We could have, we could have continued it. All these conversations that we were having about the Skinwalker Ranch. Now there's shows on Netflix about Skinwalker Ranch. The UAP stuff, you know, coming out, the hybrid programs, the reverse engineering being discussed in Congress. So I feel like the awakening is more important than the events themselves. The events themselves, because like this is a reality where unfortunately, yes, like it's painful, it's full of suffering, there's sorrow. Our loved ones are going to die one way or another, or everything's going to pass in this world.

• 1:52:33Speaker 02

  Right? So what matters is where are we awakening to the reality? Are we seeing the spiritual forces that are, that are at work? And if we can again, choose light instead of darkness, I do believe we can create a better reality. But it starts with awakening and realization, not being, we're going to put this in the corner, we're not going to discuss the pedophilia. No, that's being discussed openly now. We're not going to discuss, you know, the rape and murder and cannibalization of kids. No, we're going to discuss that because by becoming aware of it, now we can get to a place of, okay, all this, all of this somehow exists in our reality. Let's choose a better, let's choose a better version.

• 1:53:11Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:53:11Speaker 02

  Choose a better version of reality. Right? Where this doesn't happen as prevalently, if at all.

• 1:53:17Tucker Carlson?

  So the awakening is worth the suffering that leads to it?

• 1:53:20Speaker 02

  It's the only way. It's the only way to awaken is to suffer. So Buddha even, Buddha sees suffering in the world. He says, I want to understand what's causing this. Get to the heart, you know, he wants to awaken. Right? He wants to create a more compassionate reality, even though he knows that suffering will still exist. So it doesn't have to be as evil as cannibalizing, you know, people and murdering women and children and all these horrible things. But there will still be suffering in our reality at this point, point of human experience. Right? We're still going to suffer illness and old age and, and death. Until, you know, God decides that we enter a more golden age.

• 1:54:04Tucker Carlson?

  Shaun Stone, thank you very much.

• 1:54:07Speaker 02

  It's a pleasure.