“Is This Real?” NFL Questions and Summer Scuttlebutt With Dianna Russini

Bill is joined by Dianna Russini to talk about having kids before discussing year two of Caleb Williams and looking at the Broncos (10:46). Then, they talk about Micah Parsons and concerns for the Browns (43:14). Finally, they discuss Tom Brady's involvement with the Raiders, trusting Mike Vrabel, Aaron Rodgers, and more (01:05:26)! Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Dianna Russini Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo Sponsored by YahooFantasy #YahooPartner. Play Now at yahoofantasy.com/promo The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠ www.rg-help.com⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

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• 0:45Bill Simmons?

  expected, sometimes after blowing a 3-1 series lead? But what if you went to Cancun? With Expedia, save up to 30% when you bundle and save. You can book the flight or the hotel now, then book the rest later. In all fairness, though, hopefully your team doesn't go to Cancun. 1-2-3 Cancun. Or if they do, you go with them. Expedia, the one place you go to go places. Sign in to save, savings vary. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find a new episode of the Rewatchables coming on Monday. We're doing One Name Movie Month and we're doing Robocop on Monday. It is me, it is Kyle Brandt. I really, really enjoyed revisiting this movie and I learned some stuff. Hopefully you'll learn some stuff too.

• 1:29Bill Simmons?

  You can follow it on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel and stay tuned for the rest of One Name Movie Month. So Diane Rossini is coming on a little bit to talk about NFL. There's some lazy summer stuff I just wanted to go over really fast. Nothing even worthy of a full segment, but just stuff that I was amused by over the last couple of days. Number one is the Yankees, who got swept by Miami this week. All my Yankee fan friends are going bonkers. We had Jacko on last week going nuts about it and it's somehow gotten even worse because they made all these trade deadline moves and it beefed up their bullpen and then Miami kicked their butt. I was thinking about it.

• 2:11Bill Simmons?

  I, I'm actually worried that they're going to fire Aaron Boone now and I don't want them to fire him. I actually want them to extend him and give him more money in longer years, but I want them to keep Boone and Cashman for the rest of the decade. And if you told me in November 2003, right after the devastating ALCS game seven loss, that in 2025, 22 years later, less than 22 years later, that the Red Sox will win four World Series, that I'd somehow still not like the Red Sox owners even after four World Series, and that Aaron Boone felt like we had installed a mole to ruin the Yankees. I probably wouldn't have believed any of that. But that's where we are with the Yankees. I hope they continue to lose.

• 2:56Bill Simmons?

  I think they're 21 and 28 in their last 49. It's, it's, it's bad. I love it. I love it. Between that and the Red Sox punted on the trade deadline and somehow swept the Astros, which, uh, which was, was great. That this is, it's not like the movie Major League because they've spent money in the team. But it's just funny that they needed one more starter. The owners were like, ah, whatever. And then, uh, and then they ripped through the Astros. So great times. And Roman Anthony got a walk off the Roman Empire. Anyway, that's one thing.

• 3:30Bill Simmons?

  I was reading this week because I was debating whether it was worth doing a segment on ESPN, buying the NFL Network and all the NFL media stuff. And they're getting the red zone. Are they going to screw up the red zone? I don't understand this deal. And I texted and asked a few people and nobody seems to understand the deal. I, I guess they just acquired some assets. We'll see what they do. At one point, somebody mentioned that it's going to be like their relationship with the SCC Network, this network that lives on its own, but they're going to beef it up with more talent. And I'm thinking like the NFL Network is going to be like the SCC Network. How does that make sense? So I don't understand a single piece of it. The NFL Network was trying to, or the NFL was trying to get out of the NFL Network for a while.

• 4:15Bill Simmons?

  And, uh, and now this feels like you give us stuff, we'll give you stuff, but nobody's that excited about it. I don't get it. Hopefully, there's a piece in the next 72 hours that will understand what this is. Like, what's gonna happen in the NFL Network shows? Is the red zone gonna have commercials? Are you only gonna be able to get it on that ESPN flagship, whatever the F that thing is called? I just feels like kind of an important sports story. The NFL seasons in five weeks, five weeks, six weeks, whatever it is. I'd kind of like to know what's happening. So somebody figure out how to report this in a way that I understand all the basics. Next one, Fantastic Four. So it bombed in the second weekend it was out, or it might not have bombed.

• 4:58Bill Simmons?

  And then all the movie people are excited because this might be the official end of the masks and capes era. That's what I'm calling it.

• 5:09Bill Simmons?

  Where Marvel's in some trouble. We've just made too many of these now. And now there's a feeling that the less and less successful that these movies become, the more they'll actually spend money on good and original movies and IP and things like sinners and giving really good directors more money to make cool stuff. I'm dubious. I think they're gonna keep rolling out the capes and the masks and making excuses for this. But I like that we're at least having the conversation about maybe we need more good movies. So I'd like to plant my flag in the let's make more good movies than our superhero movies. Next thing, Steve Pagliuca, who lost out. He was a minority owner of the Celtics.

• 5:48Bill Simmons?

  At the end of the 2010s, almost bought the Nets and kind of didn't get his stuff together in time. Had Joe Tsai as a minority partner, dragged his feet a little bit and then ended up. It was the Nets, it was the Liberty, and it was Barclays getting all of it. Joe Tsai ended up saying, screw this. Why do I need this guy? Buys all of it himself for 3.3 billion. So Pags doesn't get that. Then he's in on the Celtics sale and had the third highest bid. I think he bid 5.5 billion. And that finished third in the rankings. And the Celtics ended up going for 6.1 billion. So now he's bought the Connecticut Sun for $350 million.

• 6:29Bill Simmons?

  And isn't even, it's not even clear if he can move them to Boston or not. But this is just a classic. Man, just spend the money on the Nets. You would, five years later, the Connecticut Sun for one tenth the price. You could have had the Liberty as part of the deal.

• 6:48Bill Simmons?

  Wow. A lot of texts this weekend about what the, what the hell was going on with this whole thing, but the Connecticut Sun going for 350 million in a league that is highly leveraged and the players are about to, to probably go on some sort of strike lockout. God only knows what happens a year and a half from now. Good luck on, on all of that. The Lakers, so they announced the Luca extension. It's basically a two-year deal. He has a player option for the third year and he's gonna, it sets himself up to make a kajillion dollars in 2028. And then LeBron's over there and he's texting or Instagramming out his workouts and the whole thing is just bizarre to watch. LeBron James has been in

• 7:29Bill Simmons?

  control of every situation he's ever been in basketball wise, who has always held, held the cards. And this is the first time ever where that's not the case. And now the Lakers, it's almost like watching somebody move in their younger, hotter girlfriend, but the ex-wife is still living in the house, taking selfies of themselves. I, I'm riveted. I can't wait to see how this plays out from a media manipulation standpoint over the next two weeks. I have my fork, my knife and my plate, my napkin's ready to go. And then last but not least, I'm taping this before the second part of SummerSlam, John Cena versus Cody Rhodes. So I think it's going up, but this podcast will go up probably as that's happening. But in part one, the WWE executed one of the great fake injury

• 8:14Bill Simmons?

  moves. I think maybe the greatest where Seth Rollins got hurt a few weeks ago. He was supposed to, supposed to wrestle CM Punk for the, the second best title, the title that's not that title actually everyone cares about, but the other title, which people still care about, but not quite as much as the real title. So he, it looked like he hurt his knee. He sold it. They squashed the match. This was like three, four weeks ago. And then he, he painstakingly sold it in every aspect of what he was doing that he hurt his leg. Even I think he, he.

• 8:50Bill Simmons?

  Guest hosted The Rich Eisen Show and even sold it like sold it there, took some fake flight to go see Dr. James Andrews, was on crutches and a huge brace everywhere he was to the point that everyone around WWE thought that he was actually hurt. And then CM Punk finally wins the second best title at SummerSlam. Good moment. And then Rollins comes out and you hear his music and like, oh, here you go. Cause he has the Money in the Bank suitcase, which is one of the great gimmicks we've ever come up with, the Money in the Bank, where you can immediately challenge somebody to the title. Comes out with the Money in the Bank suitcase, but he's got his braces on and his crutches. And it's like, well, what the hell is he gonna do? Then he drops the crutches, takes the brace off, runs in

• 9:34Bill Simmons?

  the ring. CM Punk's exhausted, hits him over the suitcase with the suitcase a few times and then then pins him and wins the title. And it was the best injury swear I've ever seen in my life. And it made me think, I just wish this could happen in other sports where, you know, like I, so I tweeted this and then people were like, this did happen with Paul Pierce in 2008, when you got hurt in the wheelchair. And I was like, all right, I didn't really even come back for that. But it would be funny. I guess teams do this with football injuries where they either hide how hurt somebody is or, but it would be great if somebody was just supposed to miss the game and then all of a sudden showed up like some playoff game. It's like Josh Allen, he's out, he's been scratched, he's gonna be the

• 10:16Bill Simmons?

  third quarterback. And then he just runs out 100% healthy and just fucks with the other team. I loved it. I loved the Rollins thing. WWE is having a really, really strong comeback year from a storytelling standpoint, even though it was doing well for the whole decade. But I think this has been a really good year for them. I think that's it. Oh, the Cowboys doc, which comes out, I think August 19th, which I was lucky enough to see seven episodes and it's fantastic. And just get ready. I'll probably do something on the podcast about this, but really made me nostalgic for the days.

• 10:54Bill Simmons?

  When we just had Madden and summer on football and, and we didn't overthink a lot of this stuff, we didn't have the 24 seven internet talk cycle and you just kind of watched the games and teams won and lost and you, you thought you had a dynasty and they didn't, or somebody got hurt or, and you were just on the roller coaster ride and we just kind of enjoyed it and we didn't overthink it and it made me nostalgic for that. It also made me nostalgic to talk about the Dallas Cowboys and what a mess they are, which we're gonna do in one second with Diana Russini and take a break, throw it to Pearl Jam and then NFL talk next.

• 11:55Bill Simmons?

  All right, we're taping this on a Sunday afternoon. It's a special day. Diana Russini, who's never been on this podcast before. I think you've been on all the other podcasts, but just not this one. And we got you to turn your texts off for an hour, which has anyone, have you ever done that for anybody before?

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Nope, not even when I was in labor. So I do it for here.

• 12:14Bill Simmons?

  You had the texts on in labor?

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Are you kidding? The doctor that was delivering my sons was my first one, was asking me about the Steelers while I was pushing. I was like, dude, are you kidding right now? Um, he later said he was doing it to keep me calm. He's like, I just know you like to talk football. So I figured if I just asked you about the team that, you know, you would think about that and not the pain because like the left side of my body wasn't taking, it wasn't taking medication. So I wasn't numb. So I could feel a lot of it.

• 12:45Bill Simmons?

  Oh, no.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  So that was his way around it. But I mean, I gave him great intel. I remember thinking that. I was like, I mean, you're getting a lot right now from this delivery. I have a hard time believing that other mothers are giving you this information. But yeah, so I'm psyched to be here. I turned off the texts. So I figure if there's breaking news, someone will call.

• 13:04Bill Simmons?

  That would have been the weirdest video football podcast anyone ever did. Pushing out a baby, talking to the doctor, answering Steelers questions. Would you take breaks during that? Let's take a break here from a couple of sponsors. I'm going to take more medication in my body.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  Love to get that sponsor. That'd be smart. I'm sure the doctor would find a sponsor because they cost a lot of money. They don't, by the way, I don't know. I mean, I know your kids are a lot older than mine, but I'm sure you remember when they were born. We just, we could not believe how little our doctor did. Like our, the nurse that we had.

• 13:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  She, she did the work. He came in, he's like, ah, yeah, push out. Yay, it's a boy, you know, you know, is Ben coming out of retirement? You know, like.

• 13:47Bill Simmons?

  Here's the thing. I think they're more there for something for, for like the, if something goes wrong aspect of it. When everything goes right, it's just basically like the guy coming in to kick the extra point. It's like, oh, that seemed easy. But then you just gotta make sure, oh, my God, the penalty pushed us back to the 40. Now I actually need somebody to make this.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, then the panic sets in. I will say my first, um, I delivered Michael in 12 minutes, which was pretty cool.

• 14:15Bill Simmons?

  12 minutes?

• 14:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, 12 minutes. I also made it competitive because my sister in law did it in 10. So I just, the whole time I was looking at the clock, like I can't be the girl in the family.

• 14:27Bill Simmons?

  Well, how do you start the clock though?

• 14:29Speaker 01

  So when you start pushing, right? So your 10 centimeters dilated and they're like, okay, let's do this. We're going, you know? Which by the way, the, the ladies out there that have been in labor for days, like God bless you. You know, like I was like, come on, like, let's do this thing. It's unbelievable to think how women do this.

• 14:51Bill Simmons?

  Listen, it was the single most impressive thing I've ever seen in my life. And, uh, I was in awe of it the entire time and felt completely useless, which then continued for the first couple of months of the actual child being out. We're just kind of there. Yeah, we're just kind of there. We're sitting picks, grabbing a couple of rebounds. We're not doing anything. Nobody's calling plays for us.

• 15:12Speaker 01

  That is true. I wound up having my second.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  Thirteen months later and uh same doctor, same nurse is awesome. They're like, hey, look who's bet. How the Steelers doing? Um, and I don't know, I was, I don't know, we were probably about eighteen minutes in and my doctor's like, hey, come on. He's like, my shift is actually ending in a half an hour. We gotta do this. Uh, so shout out to Dr. Migliaccio.

• 15:39Bill Simmons?

  Wow, you went two minute offense.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know what happened. We took a step back. It's like we had the Super Bowl hangover with Joey. Um, we, we just, we, we lost her, we, we lost her step. I don't know. Maybe I was tired because I gave birth to two babies in the span of a year, essentially. Uh, sorry.

• 15:57Bill Simmons?

  All right. Now I have to tell you my labor story, even though it wasn't me in labor. The first, our daughter Zoe, our oldest kid. So it was like on a Friday and my wife thought she went into labor. And we drove in, we're like, here we go. It's time. And was it, wasn't happening. It was like, they're like, yeah, it's not. And she was like, it's so weird that like this baby's dying to come out. Go home. We have the whole weekend and she's like incapacitated. She's just like lying. So we watched an entire season of 24 and we eat like spicy food. We do all the stuff you're supposed to do to like, you know, grease the fetus up. Sunday night, nothing. Monday morning, she's like, I'm feeling a little something. I'm like, now I'm like the boy who cried wolf. I'm like, all right,

• 16:42Bill Simmons?

  we have to go back? Like, are you, is it, what is it happening or not? I don't know. Maybe we should just go back. So we go back, but I haven't had coffee yet. And I stop and I'm like, can I stop at Starbucks quick? Cause I need to like, if we're in there for a while, like she's like, all right, fine. Go in and I'm in there and there's, I, I don't know if I've ever told this story. Um, there's an actress who used to be on 90200 and lying ahead of me at the coffee. Who played Lucinda Nicholson, Brandon's girlfriend who was married in season four.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  I recall.

• 17:17Bill Simmons?

  I'm just like, this is so weird. Like, there's a nine oh two and I can't wait to tell my wife. Get the coffee, come back in. I'm like, you're not going to believe 20 questions. Who's in there? And she's like, get to the hospital. Like, somehow in that five minutes, the baby and all of a sudden, she was really in labor. And now this story comes up all the time, that I had to stop for coffee, that she was in labor. And it's like, it's twisted. Do you do this in your, in your relationship? Do you twist the stories where there's like truth in the story, but now, now it's like seven levels beyond what actually happened in the story. Now it's like, she was in labor, but I had to stop for coffee and she was in the front seat. Like, it's just been completely exaggerated. I like to defend myself.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  You change the actress too, but you're like, yeah, but you know, it was, it was Jenny Garth.

• 18:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, now it's Tori Spelling. As the years pass, it's Jenny Garth and Tori Spelling. I don't know.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, I would say if my husband was asked something he hates about me, that would be a top, a top three. It'd probably be the phone first. Uh, second would be that I do do that to the stories. And some of it's just my memory, right? Like, as you know, like, I don't know what it is, especially, you know, since the theme so far has been birth. Something happens after you, you deliver a child. It's like, the baby comes out with your brain. It's like, it's like gone. Like, oh, there's a boy in half of my left lobe. Um, because I do it all the time where I'm like, I don't even remember that. The worst is if I, God forbid, I run into someone that I, I know well. And I'm like, looking at them like, no idea who you are.

• 18:46Bill Simmons?

  You have like face all summers? Yeah.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Horrible. The fact that I'm even at that point, you know? Um, so yeah.

• 18:54Bill Simmons?

  When we become, when it becomes like our moms, then it's like you just start merging two different stories that have no relation and they become some sort of super story. It's two different things that happened at a restaurant, but they were two different nights and two different years and they become. A super, a supersized version of some story.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  It is wild, though, how you, you can vividly remember the day, the morning, the night, whatever it is, when, when your child's, or children, if, if you're fortunate, are born.

• 19:24Bill Simmons?

  No, every aspect of it.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  Of it, right? I remember the temperature, I remember the, I mean, my, my son's three and two. It didn't happen, they're little. It's not like they're your kids' ages. But yeah, it's, it's, it's, they're great memories, hopefully, hopefully for, for people out there. It was definitely a highlight of my life, for sure.

• 19:43Bill Simmons?

  Well, I think you remember it because it's so completely terrifying the entire time. At the, at every aspect of it, you're doing something, you've, a situation you've never been involved in before. There's this human life coming out, you're in charge of it, you have no idea what the kid's gonna look like, if the kid's gonna be healthy, if there's gonna be some sort of terrible thing that had, like, there's just all these variables. And then when it actually happens. So I don't know how you wouldn't remember every aspect of that.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's one of those things I do think, because people have children every single day, that you kind of just think it's common. And it's like, yeah, yeah, they had, it, it, it's a, it's a shock to the body in, for a million reasons. I don't know why I thought I had to be tough when I started to feel that I was contracting.

• 20:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 20:29Speaker 01

  Um, but I FaceTimed my sister in my living room and I was on all four. And she's like this really pleasant personality. She's a fourth grade teacher. She's just like sweet. And she answers the phone and I was like, and you know, it's like a weird angle, right? Cause I'm like, I'm on all four.

• 20:46Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 20:46Speaker 01

  She's like, die? I was like, hey, I, I, I, I don't know, I'm feeling pain. She's like, yeah, you're in labor, go to the hospital now. I'm like, no, no, I'm, I'm good, I'm good. Cause I think I didn't want to be embarrassed. You know, you don't want to be the person that shows up so early. And then you're just like sitting there and your husband's like, oh, are you kidding? Like, I wanted to, I wanted to go. If I'm gonna go to the hospital, which was down the street from my house, too. Like, we're going. Um, so yeah, the, the whole thing, the, it's, it's definitely an experience and, and something I will never forget.

• 21:17Bill Simmons?

  Well, the second time's almost more impressive than the first time because you know the second time. What's in store? The first time you don't know, you're like climbing some mountain you've never climbed. You have no idea what's happening, what's going to happen to you physically. The second time you know what's going to happen and you're still doing it. I think that's worse, right?

• 21:37Speaker 01

  Correct, absolutely. I remember thinking, I cannot believe I have to do this again. I mean, it's probably why I didn't have a third.

• 21:44Bill Simmons?

  That's why we didn't have a third. My wife was like, I'm out, not never doing this again. Yeah.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  I know. Someone just said to me over the weekend, actually, it was like, hey, if I just put a baby in your hand right now, would you want a third? I'm like, absolutely. Even though like my house is a tornado at all times of the day. With, you know, two working parents and, you know, I don't have a schedule, right? When you're a reporter covering the NFL, you don't, you know, you're just, you just got to be on all the time. Yet I'm still like, if I just didn't have to carry that baby again and, and go through the trauma of pushing that baby out, like game on, let's do this thing.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  And by the way, I was, I mean, not saying that this should make a difference, but I was a division one athlete, you know? Like, it's not like I went in there overweight or, or, you know, just a bum that hasn't like worked out in 40 years. Like, like I'm fairly fit, you know? I was like, this can't be that bad, but I guess 12 minutes isn't so bad. I shouldn't probably be so hard on myself.

• 22:43Bill Simmons?

  That's amazing. Yeah, I'm, well, my kids are way older than yours. I'm at the point now where I wish I had appreciated all of it more. I wish we'd had more kids. My wife's always like, well, we never would have had three. So it's not like you were carrying it. She's doing that whole thing. And it's like, all right, I get it, but I wish we had a third one.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  Come to the, come to the beach with us this next, this upcoming weekend. Just spend, spend two hours with a three and two year old. You'll be, you'll be running back to your kids, kissing them, hugging them, having a cocktail with them like, I love you.

• 23:09Bill Simmons?

  I know, I do feel that sometimes on an airplane, when you see the, that vacant terrified, terrified look on the parents faces because they're flying with their little kids and they just kind of, it's almost like they, they're, they just have dark eyes. They're just like dead inside because they're like, this is going to be five hours. Everyone on the plane is going to hate me. My one kid here is already melting down, just shoot me in the head. And I know that look because I had it many times.

• 23:36Speaker 01

  Tight butt season is what we call that. Like your butt's just tight the whole time because you're just, you don't even know what it's gonna be. But you know what it's gonna be and you're embarrassed and it's just all.

• 23:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you're hoping for the miracle that nothing happens on the plane, but you know something's gonna happen.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  The, the, the thing that I've been experiencing is like if I see a football fan, like someone that wants to talk football. When we're traveling and now I'm horrified because I just talked to this person, right? They either follow or they've read stuff or they see me on TV and that's cool. But now they're gonna probably judge me as a mom. And Mikey and Joey are lunatics. Like you would think they drank coffee as kids. So then I get just even more tense. And you know, it's the whole, the whole mix of it i- is really stressful. So that's why I'm, I don't know if you're like this when you travel, but when I'm traveling without them and I see moms. Like I just, I try not to look, the kids are crying, I try to help.

• 24:31Bill Simmons?

  You get like PTSD.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Just send the vibe like, dude, you got this, you got this.

• 24:36Bill Simmons?

  We, we traveled, my buddy Joe House got married, I think in oh eight. So my daughter was not even, now she's three and a half. My son was maybe one. And on the way back, we, he got married in Martha's Vineyard, in the Martha's Vineyard Airport and my daughter pulled the fire alarm. And it was just, and then started crying and it was loud. And then my other son started crying because it was loud, but she was crying because she thought she was going to jail. And I was like, this has to be it. This is, has to be a 10 out of 10 for worst travel experience. We hadn't even flown anywhere yet. And we had already started like a, like a Cape Cod incident. Hey, speaking of panic, how about that transition? We're gonna play a game called for real.

• 25:20Bill Simmons?

  I'm gonna give you different storylines and then at the end you're gonna give me two. But uh, I want to start with, I didn't, I didn't put this in the doc for you, but there was a clip today of Caleb Williams looking just terrible.

• 25:35Bill Simmons?

  So my first for real is Caleb Williams panic time. Is this for real? Are you, are you buying this yet? Give me your take.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  I'm going to say not real for now. Um, I think first of all, it's early. Okay, this is his third play caller that we've seen him have, right? If you count the interim situation there that we saw with Thomas Brown when he took over. Um, and look, this is a player that thrived so much, right? On those freelance kind of off script plays at USC, we saw it. That's, that's probably why he went number one overall. So I just think now the challenge is going to be.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  Can he conform, right? Can he adjust to that detailed structure of the plays, the timing, the quick decisions? The things that we saw Ben Johnson do so well with Jared Goff, right? Which is, I think you've seen too, like a lot of stories now being said, like the Chicago Bears offense is not going to be the Detroit Lions one. I think the Chicago Bears coaching staff is purposely saying that. Because I don't think they're going to be equipped just yet to look like that. I think the idea is there, that it's just going to take a little bit more time. So I don't think it's time to panic. I just think Chicago Bears fans are just going to need a little bit more patience.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Because the details that Ben Johnson needs to, the details that he needs Caleb Williams to pay attention to and be good at. I just think it may take a little bit more time. Whereas we're going to constantly compare him to Jaden and Drake even, right?

• 27:13Bill Simmons?

  What's a little bit more time? Is that two months or is that two years? I guess that's a question for me.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  I think two months. I think, look, the guy is probably guzzling this coaching in terms of taking in so much. Right? We got to give him a chance to understand it, compute it.

• 27:35Bill Simmons?

  This is too rational of an answer. I mean, I admire it.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  I know. I don't know if you wanted me to come on and be like, oh, by the way, you should be panicked because he ain't the brightest guy.

• 27:44Bill Simmons?

  No, you're pulling me back. You're, you're pulling me back to reality.

• 27:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, like chill out, chill out.

• 27:49Bill Simmons?

  All the Bears fans I know are losing their minds right now. Like all of them. And it wasn't just like the training camp. It was the stuff from the Wickersham book. And there's just some, some kernels of like, you know, Jared Goff, you're basically accentuating the strengths he has. You're making him like this. Somewhat of a system quarterback, right? Caleb's like, as you said, like this freelancer, really exciting. He's almost like an NBA player where you just like kind of clear out and he goes one on one with everybody. So how does that fit in a Ben Johnson offense? I don't know. I've, I have some questions. I like them as a possible playoff team this year, though. Now I'm nervous.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  Well, I think it's because Bears fans are going like he, his physical talent is unique, but can he play quarterback? I think that's, that's like, that's what's scaring them, right? It's like, okay, we get it. We see it, but can you do that? And then can you execute with a really good play caller head coach? Can you, can this marriage work?

• 28:50Bill Simmons?

  Can you be consistent? Can you inspire the teammates that you have? Do you pass the car keys test, the Trent Dilfer test? Would your teammates toss, toss you the car keys because they want you to drive them?

• 29:06Speaker 01

  Here's the thing, it's all corny as hell.

• 29:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  But I just sat with Bo Nix in Denver.

• 29:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  And we were talking about how I was sitting with him exactly the same time last year. He was a rookie and he's just got this swag to him now and he physically looks bigger too. But I was like, okay, so tell me now the truth. Like when we were talking, remember I was like, what's Sean like? What's his playbook like? How overwhelmed are you? And you kind of like acted as if you had it all under control. Like, did you? He's like, no, it's not at all. I was so uncomfortable.

• 29:45Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 29:46Speaker 01

  He's like, I didn't understand any of it. I memorized it all because I didn't comprehend the why behind it. I didn't get why we were doing the plays. I didn't understand the importance of the time between when Sean was giving me the play and snapping the ball, you know? Or it was all of these small parts of playing the quarterback position that was moving so damn fast that's now slowed down in year two. And so it's all these small details that make up a great quarterback and.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  For Caleb Williams, we have to give him an opportunity here to learn Ben Johnson, because as we know, and as Seth Wickersham's piece revealed so well, and even some of the reporting at The Athletic, that he wasn't getting that kind of coaching.

• 30:34Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  So now he's got what I think is a great coach, and I say think because I just, I'm going to go based off what we saw in Jared Goff, because Jared Goff will be the first to say, and I think he did say that Ben Johnson's a big reason for his success. Let's see if he can apply it.

• 30:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's a weird one, because, and you said you played, what sport did you play in college, by the way?

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Soccer.

• 30:56Bill Simmons?

  What position were you?

• 30:57Speaker 01

  I played at George Mason University.

• 30:58Bill Simmons?

  What position were you? Let me guess, left back?

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Everyone guesses that. Why?

• 31:04Bill Simmons?

  I don't know. Speed, top top, what is, what was it?

• 31:08Speaker 01

  I was a striker.

• 31:10Bill Simmons?

  You were a striker?

• 31:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:11Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my daughter's a striker.

• 31:14Bill Simmons?

  But I was, when you were saying about Caleb,

• 31:19Bill Simmons?

  I saw this with, with both of my kids when they played sports, but especially my daughter, because you go up these little levels, and every year they're like, it's fine, fine, I got it. And then a year later, like, remember last year when I thought I had it and I didn't have these nine different things? It is true. It's like, no, no, I'm in great shape. Oh, actually, I'm not in that as great shape as I thought I was this year. I'm actually in really good shape. So I wonder with Caleb, is this going to be, is, no, no, I'm fine, I got it. And then a year from now, it's like, oh, I didn't totally get it. Now, like your Bo Nix example, which brings me to the Broncos, by the way.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  Oh, let's go.

• 31:48Bill Simmons?

  So this is, this is, I think, the team I'm adopting as, I don't know, I'm not picking them to win the Super Bowl, but I think every year a team takes the leap from either borderline playoff team or lower level playoff team to like actual full-fledged contender, right? And I think this is going to be the team. I think some people are sniffing it out. It's weird, the gambling odds, like some of the stuff on FanDuel hasn't really moved that much, but in general, I think a lot of people who are studying this stuff, when you look at their schedule, when you look at the free agents they added, the defense, some of the, some of the guys they hit oil on last year, year three of Sean Payton, Bo Nix in his second year, they improved the skill positions, and it seems like the people

• 32:29Bill Simmons?

  that go to their training camp are coming away going, there's something going on with this team. So ironically, you were at the training camp. So what'd you see?

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Something's going on with this team.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  Um, okay. So just backstory real quick. I'm started ESPN. I'm an NFL reporter. Um, I'm lost though. Like I'm, I'm, I'm swimming with the sharks and I'm out here in the field and I, I don't know what I'm doing. And at the time they gave me the Saints. That was like the team they wanted me to focus on. Um, so I'm around Drew Brees, Mark Ingram, Alvin Kamara, uh, and Sean Payton. And this, this is the year they, they were good. Um, well, they were good a few years, but this is where they really had a breakout season.

• 33:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  And so because I was around them, I, I got to know Sean Payton really well. And so I used to ask them all these questions, but when I tell you I ask them questions, I'm talking basic stuff that you don't ask a, a future Hall of Fame. Coach, uh, you know, texting like, hey, why did your corner do this on this situation? Like, he's like, so eventually he's like, I, I don't have any time for you. Like, you're a lovely person. I can tell you're trying hard, but you need to go meet other people. To talk to you about football because I'm running a team.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Um, so I was like, well, I don't really know that many people. He's like, well, there's this guy called, I don't know, Bill Parcells. Call him. So I cold called Bill Parcells. And he hangs up on me. He's like, oh, this is Bill. I'm like, hi, Bill. My name is Diana Russini from ESPN. I'm an NFL reporter. Click. I'm like, this guy sucks. Like everyone says he's so great. Like, I don't think he's that great. My boss calls me from ESPN. He says, are you, did you call Bill Parcells? I'm like, yeah. He's like, wh- why? What do you want? I said, well, I need a mentor. I need someone to help me with football. Um, I, I need to get better at this if I want to be great. He's like, I don't know, Di. Like I, I don't think Bill Parcells has time to do this with you.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  I said, can you just tell him my intention? So my boss calls him back and says, all right, look, this girl wants to do this. And at the end, he goes, you know, she's a Jersey girl. He goes, why don't you tell me she was a Jersey girl?

• 34:46Bill Simmons?

  Ah, look at you.

• 34:47Speaker 01

  Calls me back. He goes, Diana, why didn't you lead with that? You're an Italian girl from Jersey? What are you doing this weekend? I said, oh, I don't know. He said, come up to Saratoga. You like horses? Like, oh, my gosh. So I drive up. I spent, I don't know, eight hours with this man. And that's where I learned about who Sean Payton is through Bill Parcells, truly. So I take all of that because by understanding Bill and learning football through that lens, I've been able to understand Sean Payton. And so because of that, I've been so grateful to Sean for saying, hey, go call Bill Parcells. So I still say.

• 35:30Bill Simmons?

  So when you say you understand him, though, you're, so you understand both what he's trying to do with building a team, but also if he likes the team?

• 35:40Speaker 01

  It's, I just, you understand why he does the things he does and how he operates and when he's in love and he's in love with this team right now. Like even this summer, Coach like reached out to me a few times checking in and I missed the call, which, you know, how do you miss a head coaching call you, but it happens? And he just left me a voicemail. I gotta see if I still have it. All he's, this is what he said, ready? So I don't have a message, just like a beep. And it's just Sean Payton go, I love my Q. And he hangs up. Just, I love my quarterback. Like, who does that? So when I saw him, we caught up. I was like, what's going on? He's like, Di, I love this team.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  I just, I love this, we too see, we too see Greenlaw. We too see him out here. Like, we're in pads today. You're gonna love what he sees, this front five. And, and look, he, he can, he can sell the best of them, but.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  He was right when I watched it and you know, I got an opportunity to sit with Patrick Surtan, obviously defensive player of the year. And you know how we always ask quarterbacks like to list your, you know, we ask the other quarterbacks in the league to list the top five quarterbacks. You know, we just do the rankings all the time. Um, I was like, oh, let's just ask, we should ask Patrick, like what, who the top five quarterbacks are. So he, he does what we all do, that he named the ones that we all think of. I'll say it just for entertainment value of, you know,

• 37:05Bill Simmons?

  Alan Mahomes, Lamar.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  Alan, Joe Burrow, Lamar. Um, who we missing there?

• 37:11Bill Simmons?

  The fifth one, the fifth one gets exciting because you could make a Daniel's case.

• 37:15Speaker 01

  He threw Herbert in there, actually. He threw Herbert in there.

• 37:17Bill Simmons?

  Herbert? Wow. He loves, he loves 500 quarterbacks.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  I, I know. We could, I was, so that I threw in Jalen Hurts, which I got no response.

• 37:28Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Which, again, in the moment, I wish I was like, why didn't you say anything? But he just didn't say anything. And he goes, the one that's right in there, I'm telling you, is Bo Nix.

• 37:39Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  What?

• 37:42Speaker 01

  So.

• 37:43Bill Simmons?

  He's going against them every day in practice. I just read a story about that, about how they make each other better with testing each other.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and look, Bo, Bo was great. We talked to him too, or we had an opportunity to interview him. And, uh, he, he was just talking about all the post snap stuff, the understanding of it all. Uh, how, how much he studied Sean's playbook this year and the comfort level he has, how quick he's moving now through it. Um, just, just, it's really a language and understanding it. The other thing too, that was really interesting, from his perspective, he hasn't had the same, so obviously he played college for five years. And I know we joked that he's like 52 years old, but, um, he's only had the same play caller two, two years in a row, one other time. And that was when he was a junior in high school.

• 38:35Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  But think about how many years of football he's been playing, and he's never had the same play caller two years in a row. So he's kind of talking like this young kid of like, he's like, it's great to have Sean Payton in my ear again this year, because I'm not used to having that. So I think that that that's a good component.

• 38:51Bill Simmons?

  He almost like had an AAU experience where he's just bouncing around on different teams. I can't decide how good he is because I thought I really liked some of the stuff he did last year. And I definitely thought it wasn't crazy that he was the quarterback of a playoff team. But he also had a couple of moments where you're like, ugh.

• 39:09Bill Simmons?

  But he also didn't have very many skill guys. He had Sutton and that was basically it.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  If Jaden Daniels doesn't take this team to the NFC championship, you can make an argument Bo Nix is Rookie of the Year. Right? Like, he threw for more touchdowns than Jaden.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  He threw for more yards. He took less sacks, which that's like a big Sean Payton thing, which is why he didn't like Russell Wilson. He hates, hates quarterbacks who take sacks. I mean, you want to piss him off, talk about that.

• 39:43Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 39:45Speaker 01

  So, you know, healthy offensive line this year. Loving Greenlaw, Eufanga. I mean, this, I think they're the best defense in football. I mean, look, I get it. People listening like this chick, she's from Colorado? I'm not. It's just.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  They have something there. You go to these camps and you just feel it, you know it. And it's, it's the, it's the Sean Payton programming and they're buying in and that's half the battle.

• 40:13Bill Simmons?

  I was, I always do these player ranking things before every year and I was shocked by how high Denver was. Where I do like blue chippers, red chippers, pink chippers and assign different points. And I had seven guys on their defense that got at least one point out of the 11 starters. And then the coaching is a top four or five coaching staff, right? But then they have one of the best four offensive lines. And the big thing last year was their, their skill position guys, you know, were, were pretty weak except for Son, which they tried to beef up. I've been reading all the RJ Harvey stuff, trying to figure out, he's a 24 year old rookie, could have given them some juice. He had some big run yesterday that they were all excited about, but I just didn't think that

• 40:56Bill Simmons?

  running backs were very good last year, which is really the easiest thing to improve in the NFL. There's a million like decent running backs. So I also, the schedule thing is in their favor too, because I think they go AFC South, NFC East.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  It is.

• 41:11Bill Simmons?

  And they have the third place schedule. So I just, there's a lot of signs pointing to them and their over under is still nine and a half wins, which I think is crazy. I'd, I'd be like, I'd be genuinely shocked that they didn't win 10 games.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Oh, same here. That would be a disappointing year.

• 41:27Bill Simmons?

  It would mean somebody got hurt. It would be like Bo Nix got hurt and they played a back, the backup quarterback for half the year.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  Oh, Jared Stidham. That, that's what's great about Jared Stidham. Yep. Look, Stidham is the type of quarterback you want, because when he's on your team, your quarterback stays healthy. He's been like, good luck. Um, but I asked Sean about the whole weapon situation, because I, I remember during free agency, trying to figure out who they were going to go after.

• 41:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  Because I was like, they could, they're going to want to get this kid somebody. And he's like, my weapon is our run game now. I'm like, all right.

• 42:01Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  So that, that, that's how he's, that's how he's looking.

• 42:04Bill Simmons?

  So hopefully he can catch some balls for them. But I like the way they look. Like, if you go roster versus roster with them and KC, they're right there talent, talent wise. It's just KC has the infrastructure and most.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  They're talking Super Bowl there, by the way.

• 42:20Bill Simmons?

  I'm not against it. A little, little dirty secret for you. I was on a runway in Chicago coming out from the sports collectors convention and we didn't, we were just kind of stalled for 15 minutes. I went on Fanduel and I started out, because I was going to hold off. I was going to wait until end of August to make some NFL futures. I was like, I can't hold off on the Broncos anymore. I'm, I'm getting some of these in. I'm getting some Broncos bets in and I'm shorting Miami in a couple of different ways were the two things I did.

• 42:45Speaker 01

  Well, I am, maybe this is kind of ironic because I feel like.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  Parcells is the one who kind of always was in my head when I was just when I was younger, learning how to cover this game of, you know, the teams that are the ones that are loud screaming that stuff are usually the crappy ones.

• 43:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  But I've now seen it two years in a row where I've had teams be really vocal about it, like Andy Reid last year, he said to me, he's a grumble for three. I'm like, first of all, Travis Kelsey said that to me after they won the second, when we were running off the field, like, you know, when the reporters like run after them to ask them questions, I was doing that. And I was like, you know, whatever boring question I asked, like, how you feel, you know, whatever. And he's like, going for three. I'm like, three, what? I'm like, oh, three in a row. What? You just won. Like chill. Um, but Andy was like, I, I love them talking about that. Like, I want them, obviously they, they lost, but, um, you know, so you got them doing it, you got Denver doing it now. They got, they've, they've got some swag. They're, they're definitely headed into this season confident.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  So I, I, I get why you like the Broncos.

• 43:52Bill Simmons?

  You have them over the Chargers?

• 43:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 43:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I think so too.

• 43:57Bill Simmons?

  Let's take a break and then we'll do a couple more for reals. This episode is brought to you by Yahoo Fantasy. Yahoo Fantasy is the best place to play fantasy football this season. Starting August 4th, Yahoo Fantasy dropping 28 big new features over 28 days, giving you more ways to play, draft and win. Stay tuned and get started by creating or joining a Yahoo Fantasy Football League today at yahoofantasy.com slash Simmons. That's me. All right. Third is this real? Is the Micah Parsons holdout, whatever the hell we're doing for real. It certainly got a lot of, lot of news and we don't have to hash over all the things. I want to give you my theory. So there's this Cowboys documentary coming out on Netflix and it's actually really good. And I think it's going to be a big deal.

• 44:43Bill Simmons?

  And it's about the Jerry Jones 90s Cowboys and the celebration of this really meaningful team that I think everybody remembers. And you have guys like Aikman and Irvin and Emmett, who even after, and Deion, after they played for the Cowboys, they've, they've still stayed really relevant, as says Jerry.

• 45:01Bill Simmons?

  Part of me wonders, does he just do this sometimes with these holdouts just to get people talking about the Cowboys all month? When he knows this is how this is gonna end, they're not trading Micah Parsons. Nobody's doing that. That would be, that'd be the, like if the Patriots offer them Keon Way and two first round picks and a third for Micah Parsons, like whoa, that's a lot. You're not doing it. You're keeping, he's one of the most, seven most important guys in the league. You're not trading him, especially in the salary cap era where you could just push this money into this interminable amount of years and then, you know, it doesn't actually hate you. It's not like the NBA. I'm convinced that he does this shit sometimes, just so like First Take will lead with the Cowboys and people write the stories. I don't believe this for a second.

• 45:46Bill Simmons?

  Do you think this is real?

• 45:49Speaker 01

  I don't think it's real that Micah Parsons is gonna get traded, but I do think the beef is real.

• 45:56Bill Simmons?

  Really?

• 45:56Speaker 01

  I think sometimes in negotiations, everyone's like, alright, you're doing what you need to do to get your money, I get it, or you're doing what you need to do to protect the team, I get it, wink, wink, wink, but we're all gonna be together, la di da. This feels personal. This, this has, this feels like it's Jerry versus Micah. This isn't the Dallas Cowboys front office, or the Dallas Cowboys in general versus Micah.

• 46:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 46:23Speaker 01

  It, it, it feels, and I think a lot of it has to do with what Jerry's been saying publicly. He's gotten a little overboard on this stuff. And, and I don't ever really get crazy about negotiations and how people are talking about stuff because I know how it goes by now, but this with the, you know, not knowing who Micah's agent is, from leaving his name out to not contacting him this whole time, to talking about his injuries, so it just, it doesn't feel great. And.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  The other day, so the story broke Friday. So I guess it was Thursday morning. Somebody tipped me off on it. It was like, Michael Parsons has in his drafts, a note that basically says, I don't want to be a Dallas Cowboy anymore. Um, and his agent's aware of it and they're basically just waiting to pull the trigger because you don't ask for a trade out of Dallas. Nobody's, nobody does that, right? You, we've seen in Washington, we've seen in almost every organization, most want to be a Dallas Cowboy because of all the benefits of playing for, you know, America's team.

• 47:34Bill Simmons?

  What are, what are those benefits? Just out of curiosity? They haven't won the Super Bowl in, in literally three decades now. And I would say they've been one of the least successful NFL franchises that, you know, you have your Browns level. They're obviously not there, but it's not like they've been rolling in success these last, uh, I don't know, Michael Parsons' entire life, the Cowboys have never been good, like in the, in a Super Bowl contender way.

• 48:02Speaker 01

  It feels like it though, when you're around them, when you're there, they don't, they don't suck. They're, they're not ugly looking. They're not, they don't ugly uniforms. They don't have an ugly stadium. They get so much attention. They're treated, they're treated like they're premier, but they're not. And maybe some of them like living in the limelight of that, of the celebrity of being a Dallas Cowboy versus, you know, actually being able to win it. Um.

• 48:33Bill Simmons?

  Isn't it better to be in the limelight of winning though? If you're Michael Parsons?

• 48:36Speaker 01

  Maybe the hope is that they, maybe what it is, they believe that they can do that, right? I mean, cause this is a team that's built on star power, based on deals that they're doing.

• 48:45Bill Simmons?

  It's, they're the Kardashians. They're, it's like all, all sizzle and no steak.

• 48:51Bill Simmons?

  Although the Kardashians are very successful. But you kind of look at it and you go, what's, what are the talents here? And the Cowboys, same thing. It's like, what are the talents here? What is the Jerry Jones? Like as soon as they got rid of Jimmy Johnson. And by the way, I for, I totally forgot about the Emmitt Smith contract holdout where he actually missed games.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 49:09Bill Simmons?

  You know, because now as you get older, you start, some of this stuff falls through the cracks in your brain. But he went to the precipice with Emmitt Smith and it was not going to be resolved until the replacement guy kind of stunk in the first two games and the Cowboys fanbase went nuts.

• 49:26Bill Simmons?

  I wonder if, if he'd be willing to do that again, to actually go into the season, not paying him to see what happens.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  He had to go so hard. I'm curious to see if there's any self-reflection from him of, maybe I didn't do this right, right? Because even just talking to people over the last few days about it of like, what do you think? You know, you know, and most will tell you, well, Jerry's done these deals before with players. It's, he's notorious for these, whether it's, I guess Tony Rome was the famous one, where he tries to do these deals with players.

• 50:00Bill Simmons?

  Right. Bypass all the people around them.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. Whereas it's like, first of all, it's illegal. You need to have an agent do those contracts. I think Kraft, right? With Brady is maybe the only other owner I know of that kind of did that where they have a conversation and then, you know, they kind of agree to it. And then the agent comes in and does the paperwork, I guess.

• 50:22Bill Simmons?

  Listen, all Patriot fans have agreed for the rest of our lives, never to talk about whatever private under the table stuff Kraft and Brady had.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  As just like,

• 50:32Bill Simmons?

  We don't talk about it.

• 50:32Speaker 01

  We don't care.

• 50:33Bill Simmons?

  No, we don't talk, we, because there, I, I never felt like the salary number was a hundred percent all the money that was going to Brady, but we, we looked the other way.

• 50:42Speaker 01

  No way.

• 50:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we look the other way. You know all the stuff these these guys can do like use use the plane whenever you want. There's like a million different.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  I know.

• 50:52Bill Simmons?

  Which workarounds here. Invest in this thing we're investing in. You should do this. It's gonna make this like.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:58Bill Simmons?

  It's a lot of stuff you can do.

• 50:59Speaker 01

  I just had a conversation with an owner over the offseason about that of things that they lay out for their players, this specific organization in terms of investment, things that they have set up for relationships that the owner and the organization have with these investment groups.

• 51:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  That help the players make money. It's like it's the best way to help your team with the salary cap by taking less money and then still be able to make all the money that you probably could get on the open market.

• 51:31Bill Simmons?

  I don't think Jerry Jones is doing that with Micah Parsons.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  I don't think he's doing that with Mike Parsons. I think he's sitting Micah Parsons down for a day and a half and talking to him what he thinks is just a conversation. Micah's perspective, as we know, he thought it was a conversation. Jerry thought that was a deal. And look, I think the Cowboys perspective on it, at least Jerry Jones's perspective on it is like, look, I've done this with other players. I asked Dak to do it with me and Dak said, no, talk to Todd France, my agent.

• 51:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 51:57Speaker 01

  And that's that's how they did it. And Micah never spoke up. Micah never said that. And I think that's how Jerry sees it. Whereas, obviously.

• 52:06Bill Simmons?

  Micah's in his mid twenties. But how does he know how to do a deal with the owner who's made a kajillion deals? Like, that's ridiculous.

• 52:15Speaker 01

  It's shady. And.

• 52:17Bill Simmons?

  It's shady.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  That's why I think this is the the original question was, is this real? I'm with you. I don't think they're trading him. I have spoken to teams have already reached out to Dallas and it's not even like they're having a conversation.

• 52:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they're just getting hung up on.

• 52:32Speaker 01

  They're just like, whatever. It's like, we talk about other players.

• 52:36Bill Simmons?

  Is three firsts crazy for you?

• 52:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 52:39Bill Simmons?

  Just out of curiosity? Because I, you know, I'm in, I have the NBA DNA where the people get traded all the time. The picks and the trades have gotten crazier and crazier and crazier. We don't really see it ever with the NFL. Like, we'll have like the occasional Khalil Mack trade. But for the most part, teams just don't do it that way. And if you have one of these guys, the way the cap works where you can just keep pushing that money way down the road and almost like this dinner bill that you just get to keep putting on credit, you never have to pay. Like, the Parsons thing to me is easy. Just pay him.

• 53:11Speaker 01

  Who's the team that trades for Micah Parsons and cousin Sal just like jumps off a bridge?

• 53:18Bill Simmons?

  The best for the podcast for me and Sal is the Patriots. That would be the absolute funniest outcome of all of this. If he, if, and then he was just awesome on the Patriots and we went like 12 and five, but I was wearing a Parsons jersey for every part. That's just for content. That would be the, the most fun for me.

• 53:37Speaker 01

  That's a good one.

• 53:38Bill Simmons?

  First of all, like there were teams mentioned when people make up the fake trades. Like, guess what? They're not trading him to Washington or Philadelphia or the Giants like that. Like just cross those teams off. They're not trading with those teams and they would probably trade in the AFC if they're trading him, but they're not trading him. So it's a moot point.

• 53:54Speaker 01

  How funny it'd be if it was just like a lame team, you know, like the Titans, you know?

• 53:58Bill Simmons?

  The Jags.

• 53:59Speaker 01

  It's like, have fun.

• 54:02Bill Simmons?

  All right. So we agree. I still feel like Jerry milks this stuff because he, uh, I think he likes when people are discussing the Cowboys. What's interesting is I actually kind of thought, had them right, right in the six to eight seed range in the NFC. Like they do have talent, Dax back. It wouldn't surprise me if they, with their schedule, if they went like 10 and seven. But if they don't figure the Parsons thing out, they're not going to.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I, I'm interested to see, here's the other thing too.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Because Micah is repped by such a powerful agent, it's the same agent that repped Deshaun Watson, that I wonder if the philosophy there is like, once you ask for a trade, like this is, we want out. Whereas we'll, we're seeing in Washington with Terry McLaurin.

• 54:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  I don't think Terry wants to leave Washington.

• 54:55Bill Simmons?

  No, they're not trading him. They're trying to win the Super Bowl. What are they going to get for him?

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Happiest guy.

• 54:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 54:59Speaker 01

  Terry's the best, right? Like he's just like walking around, talking to his quarterback's mom, just like, hey, everybody, I just want, I just want to make 31, 32. Come on, please. I know I'm going to be 30 next week, but just pay me.

• 55:13Bill Simmons?

  Well, the Trey Hendrickson thing is interesting because he seems like he wants to stay. He's kind of TMI-ing some of the information. He's going to be doing long dissertations about his worth and his feelings about the Bengals. But, uh, I mean, talk about a cheap franchise and he's the only, you know, the only really good defensive player they have. So, um, I assume he will come back. Parsons though, who knows? If Parsons was like, I'm not coming back.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  It's, do you have the stomach for it? I think that's what it is. It's uncomfortable. It's weird. It's these guys, most good players are taught that it's about the team despite the fact that it is a business. They're coming from the culture of it's about the, the, the good things in sport. And I do think Trey Hendrickson, who, you know, I, I talked to him. I've been in touch with him a lot during this. And you're right, like he spends a lot of time making sure you know, and the public knows that his intentions here are to just get the money he's worth.

• 56:13Bill Simmons?

  His feelings seem hurt.

• 56:16Speaker 01

  Oh, well, wouldn't yours?

• 56:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Well, especially when Max Crosby gets taken care of.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Didn't own your company and the owner of your company was paying everybody else who was a star on the other side of the ball, but didn't want to pay you and give you the guarantees that you wanted. And it's not like he's asking for anything so outlandish because I've done kind of some of the back work on that. I'm just like asking other teams, like, would you give Trey two years guaranteed? Everyone's like, yes. Like it's, it's, it's not that hard to do. But Cincinnati is just one of those teams that don't operate like Cincinnati, that don't operate like Philly. They don't operate like Houston. They don't operate like LA. They don't get ahead.

• 56:57Bill Simmons?

  Right. Well, that leads to the next for real. Is Cleveland the worst 2025 team for real?

• 57:05Bill Simmons?

  And I bring them up because it's it's a little bit dysfunctional along the lines of the Bengals. The Bengals have more talent, but same kind of like you are who you are behind the scenes. And then the NFL that always comes back to bite you. I look at Cleveland, the quarterback thing is already a mess. The Watson thing is one of the biggest cap cripplers we've had in a long, long time. And I don't see a scenario where they win like four games. And they like, to me, if you were saying, who's gonna have the worst record in the league, which is always a fun one to bet on when when people put those odds up, I would go either Cleveland or New Orleans, I think are just the most obvious too. They seem New Orleans, at least like there's some good buzz about, oh, that they

• 57:50Bill Simmons?

  have some good young players and the new coaching staffs in place. And maybe they'll be like a little bit frisky. I don't see it at all with Cleveland.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  Joe Flacco is not doing it for you?

• 57:59Bill Simmons?

  No, no, he's not. I thought he was terrible last year.

• 58:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, he wasn't terrible when he was with Stefanski the last time.

• 58:07Bill Simmons?

  It was two years ago.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  I mean, they went to the playoffs in 23. So.

• 58:11Bill Simmons?

  He's in his 40s now. I in general, I'm I'm blind out on all 40s quarterbacks. And I think Brady messed up everybody's brains. I've talked about this before. Brady was an anomaly.

• 58:22Speaker 01

  I'm one of anyone in their 40s. I woke up with a stiff neck the other day. I'm like, what is happening to me? And I Googled it. And I have meningitis. I'm going to be dead in 15 hours. Like, I was like, what? What is happening? Um, but yeah, which I do that all the time, which is such an obnoxious thing to do, like as a.

• 58:39Bill Simmons?

  You self diagnose on Google? Yeah.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  That, but also I try to like, think of myself as the player, you know, at my age, if the player is close in my age, and I'll just be like.

• 58:49Bill Simmons?

  Your 40s, you have to, because you watch that you watch stuff start to go by the wayside every year. It's like, oh, I can't see as well anymore. What happened?

• 58:57Speaker 01

  I do it with my my parents, right? Like, my dad 72. And like, I'll see like Belichick, for example, I'm like, my dad.

• 59:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  Just watches Judge Judy all day. Like, there's no way any 21 year old or 22 year old is even looking his way, nor would he even know what to say to her. He would be like, can we take a nap? You know, three times a day. Um, so I it's like, I can't help myself, but I do it all the time. So to your point with Joe Flacco, like, yeah, like.

• 59:24Bill Simmons?

  It's same for Rogers. It's like, that's why I'm not going to get excited by Rogers. Like, these guys are in their 40s. It's not realistic.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  He's an outlier. He's an outlier. He doesn't eat strawberries, for God's sakes. You know, like, he is special, committed, you know, you know, the whole thing.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  So, yeah, I have concerns. Look, a lot of it, I was around the Browns a lot last year during training camp, and I just, look, Deshaun was there at the time, is different. He's there now, but we know that situation there. Um, that, that, look, I like the idea that they've been consistent with keeping Stefanski there and Andrew Berry. I do think they're a good tandem together, but there's just this juice missing in Cleveland. I, you know how I just was talking about Denver, right? And I was like, God, these guys are just like drinking the Kool-Aid and they're rolling on it on their identity and who they are and the culture and what they're trying to accomplish and the details and they got studs on all sides. Like, I don't, I don't,

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  I never felt that in Cleveland. I haven't been there yet at camp, but just seeing what I'm seeing and reading what I'm, like, I'm not, Mary Kay Cabot right now seems to be the biggest star out of Cleveland with her comments at the Hall of Fame, um, celebration.

• 1:00:37Bill Simmons?

  What did Mary Kay Cabot say?

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:00:39Bill Simmons?

  I somehow missed this. It's the weekend.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Bill, this was so good.

• 1:00:43Bill Simmons?

  What was it?

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  And not that I'm, not that I'm expecting you to, like, follow all Mary Kay, but Mary Kay's obviously exceptional. She's been around forever, covers the Cleveland Browns. Um, so she was inducted in the Hall of Fame, Sportswriter Hall of Fame. So she goes up there and she talked about the start of her career and her delivery was fantastic. So she's up there and she says, you know, Bill Belichick calls me up once and he's giving me a hard time. And I said, Bill, you know, I, I hope, I hope you talk to the men the same way you talk to me. Um, essentially, like, treat me just the way you treat the men. And I hope you say the shit you say to me, you say to the men. She goes, and then, you know, years passed and I was a young 28-year-old reporter and I realize now, Bill Belichick just couldn't

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  relate to a 28-year-old because I was too old.

• 1:01:32Bill Simmons?

  Oh no. She said that in the speech?

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  I was, and I, I've known Mary Kay forever. Like, Mary Kay's spicy and she's great at her job, but she's not like that. Like, she doesn't like-

• 1:01:52Bill Simmons?

  Belichick taking strays. That's pretty good. That's a really good setup and punchline.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  It was, is fantastic. And I was, here's the thing. Somebody sent the clip and you know how all of our attention is so limited? Like, I can, I can only watch like five seconds of a clip.

• 1:02:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  And so the person that tweeted it, like, made it like, this clip is gonna wow you. And I thought the funny part was just that, like, she was tough with Bill.

• 1:02:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  You know, I was like, good for Mary Kay. And I was thinking that. You know, way to go. And then I was just, whoa, go MKC.

• 1:02:25Bill Simmons?

  Well, I think part of the problem with the lack of belief with the Browns, this is like the eighth time they pivoted since Haslem bought the team, I think in 2012. So now it's like, hey, we have our shit together finally. The Watson thing, he's taken a lot of accountability for the Watson. What a disaster that was, but-

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  That shocked me when he said that. I was at the owners' meeting when he said that. I was like, whoa, that was a big step.

• 1:02:49Bill Simmons?

  He's done it though. I was reading up on him and he's done it a few times when he's fired people, like GMs or coaches. And he'll just publicly say like, he does the Aaron Boone thing. He's like, we gotta get this right. It's all ahead of us. We gotta, we gotta, everything's in front of us. We just gotta keep moving. We've made some mistakes. But, uh, he's just really bad at owning a team. And I, they're just clearly the most dysfunctional of all the NFL teams now. And have been for a while.

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  That's the hard part. It's when the owners are that involved, you're like, you're part of this operation all the time and it's still bad.

• 1:03:21Bill Simmons?

  It's very similar to what's happening with the Phoenix Suns with Matt Ishbia. Where just, they're changing to pivot, another splashy thing. Oh, I changed again. Oh, it was this guy's fault. Hey, I'm learning. And the problem is Haslem is now in like year 14 owning the Browns. And it doesn't seem like there's light at the end of the tunnel. At least with David Tepper, who had made a lot of those same mistakes. At least, that's been quiet for a year. I don't know if he's a good owner or not, but he's at least trying.

• 1:03:53Speaker 01

  Conscious of what it's looked like. I don't.

• 1:03:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  These people don't change, Bill. You think Woody Johnson is now going.

• 1:04:03Bill Simmons?

  That's another good example.

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  Since I let my sons run it all, I'm not gonna do that anymore. Like, no. Um, you can't, they can't help who they are.

• 1:04:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  Um, and look, and I think there's some instances where an ownership having some say in things is okay. I actually just talked to Greg Penner, the owner of the Broncos, on the sideline the other day about that. It was the exact question I asked him. I said, how do you know when to step in? Like, how, how involved are you on the day to day? How do you know to go, I need to say something here?

• 1:04:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  You know, and he, and he even is like, it's not easy. Cause you gotta let your football people do it, but if you disagree with something, and you're watching this, or, or let's say you're an owner like Josh Harris, right? Like, who's got experience with bad deals.

• 1:04:50Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  Um, you know, it's gotta be hard for him to go, all right, I'm just gonna let Adam Peters do this. There's no way. Of course he's gonna influence it. Especially if they, they've been down that road before and they've made those mistakes. They're not gonna allow some new GM making those mistakes. Which is why I'm curious to see how the Terry McLaurin thing shapes out. Because you know, you know the owners involved in that. That's not just Adam Peters. No way. No way.

• 1:05:12Bill Simmons?

  He's, I'm not worried about that one. So you, is there a worse team than Cleveland for you?

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

  The Titans?

• 1:05:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they're, they're on the list.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  I just, I don't know what they are.

• 1:05:29Bill Simmons?

  At least they have an easier division.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  They do. And no one pays attention to them, so they don't have to deal with the Heat. I feel like, you know, Cleveland Browns fans are nuts. They're, they're so into it and, and they're so crushed every year. And the Watson thing hanging over, it's all of it. I just think for Tennessee, it's, there's just been so much change. Ownership has gone through so much different.

• 1:05:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:50Speaker 01

  Um, variety, you know, whether it's getting rid of Rand Carthon, John Robinson, Mike Rabel, all of those. Um, so now they, they're trying to settle this thing down. And I've heard great things about Cam Ward. Um.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  But, but I think between Cleveland and Tennessee and, and I'm with you on New Orleans. They're, they're, I don't think they're going to have any exceptional years. The Dolphins too. I'm worried about them.

• 1:06:15Bill Simmons?

  I already have all their unders. The Giants would be the fifth one, but at least the Giants. You can point to them and go, hey, they might be able to rush the ball. I mean, rush the passer. Hey, they might be able to make a couple of big plays with their receivers. Like there's a few things there. Tennessee, I don't know what the case is. Let's take one more break and then we'll do the rest of these. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. And whether it's a flea flicker or a tush push, you need a plan that fits your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and for your budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 1:06:55Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by Workday. Guessing is for game shows, not your business, especially when your margin for error is zero. Workday is the enterprise AI platform for HR, finance and IT with a deep understanding of your organization's context and guardrails. So every AI action is permission aware, giving you accuracy 24/7 and the ability to not just get work done, but get it done right. It's a new Workday. All right, quick break. This episode is brought to you by Fire TV. You ever sit down, ready to watch the game, only to search and scroll endlessly? If so, you need Fire TV. It shows you are live games from your favorite teams all in one place, right on the home screen.

• 1:07:35Bill Simmons?

  No more searching. Just sit down and turn on Fire TV. Separate subscriptions may be required. Feature and content availability may vary. All right, quickie for real. Is Tom Brady actually really involved with the Raiders for real, in your opinion?

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  That was my for real.

• 1:07:53Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I stole your for real?

• 1:07:55Speaker 01

  He stole my for real, but I was gonna, I was gonna do it and then answer it.

• 1:07:59Bill Simmons?

  Answer it. What's the answer?

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  He is involved in everything, everything. First of all, it's Tom Brady. What does he care about? Nevertheless, have ownership in something and just goes, oh, I want nothing to do with that. Of course, of course, he's involved in this. And this just even goes back to the off season.

• 1:08:22Bill Simmons?

  So at the Bezos wedding, he's like, hold on, guys, I gotta step out. We're having an issue with our sixth round receiver. Like, I don't know. I don't know if I'm buying it.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  I don't think it's, I think he's informed daily of things that are happening and he has a say. And I think he's in contact with the stars of that team. I say stars, but like outside Max Crosby, right?

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  Like, Brock Powers. Alex Guerrero is there. They train with Alex. The Alex program is there.

• 1:08:49Bill Simmons?

  Alex?

• 1:08:52Bill Simmons?

  He's there? How did I miss this?

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, Alex Guerrero's there. Go to the website, Raiders.com.

• 1:08:57Bill Simmons?

  Wow, he's back.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  He's back. If Alex Guerrero there is there, Tom Brady is there, right? And look, I know he lives, he still lives in Florida.

• 1:09:06Speaker 01

  But when they were going through that coaching search, you, you think it was just Mark Davis on the phone with these coach? No. It was him. Ben Johnson took the interview because Tom Brady called him. He didn't want to go there.

• 1:09:21Bill Simmons?

  Seems like he's done a lot of traveling, a lot of dating, and he's also going to be calling NFL games on Fox this year. And I just, if I'm another like GM slash thinker in the NFL, and this is a team I'm competing against, I'm probably excited that Tom Brady's kind of half in, half out.

• 1:09:38Speaker 01

  I, I, I don't think he is. I, I think he's, I, I get he's busy. I don't think Tom Brady wants to be embarrassed by saying he's the owner of a team that's going to be a dump. He's going to make sure that it's at least at a level of respectable, at least try to figure out a way to get it there. I don't know if he has that ability to do it, right? Because I've never seen him in a position that he's in now where he's running a team. But I, I, I don't think the Sofia Vergara, you know, make out sesh should count as a distraction towards Tom Brady's focus.

• 1:10:16Bill Simmons?

  I'm okay with that couple.

• 1:10:18Speaker 01

  I like that couple. I thought that was, that was cute. It was.

• 1:10:22Bill Simmons?

  I like her. I think, I think she seems very charming. I don't think it's worked.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  It fell apart already?

• 1:10:27Bill Simmons?

  I, I don't know. I don't, I don't think they're getting engaged.

• 1:10:32Bill Simmons?

  I think they're in the early stages. Um, I'm, I'm interested to see how involved Brady is because I think that, I think Brady's done a good job of the perception. I say this is in, in a, as somebody who brought me in the other Patriot fan six rings. We love Tom Brady, but he just seems very spread out all over the place. And, um, the better thing is that he was involved with the Pete Carroll hiring and, you know, whether Pete has two decent years left or five, I don't know, but at least he's a real head coach who has a culture in place and is going to try to, uh, make them seem like professionals, which was not the case the last few years.

• 1:11:09Speaker 01

  I don't know. I think you're in denial. I think you just don't want Tom to be associated with a team that's not gonna be that good.

• 1:11:13Bill Simmons?

  I didn't like seeing him in the Raider stuff the other day. It did make me mad.

• 1:11:16Speaker 01

  It was weird, right?

• 1:11:17Bill Simmons?

  I didn't like it. I think he should not wear Raider stuff. Just wear like generic.

• 1:11:24Bill Simmons?

  I know he has to. Yeah. It's so, it's weird. It's a weird one for me, especially that was the team that launched his career effectively with the, in the snow game. Other people call it the tuck role game.

• 1:11:36Speaker 01

  So what's harder for you? Was it?

• 1:11:38Bill Simmons?

  It's not hard.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  Was it, was it, was it seeing the report that Bill Belichick called the Jets for the job or seeing Tom Brady?

• 1:11:47Bill Simmons?

  No, the Belichick thing, Belichick was just.

• 1:11:49Speaker 01

  How weird is that?

• 1:11:50Bill Simmons?

  I think he was just kicking every tire possible.

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  He was. So.

• 1:11:54Bill Simmons?

  But you made the key point. You said your dad watches Judge Judy all day. Like at some point, you're in your mid seventies. You probably shouldn't be coaching an NFL team anymore. Would be my expert take. It's a hard job.

• 1:12:06Speaker 01

  My dad's not a plumber anymore. Thank God.

• 1:12:09Bill Simmons?

  You're, you're competing against Ben Johnson who's like, what is he like 38?

• 1:12:13Speaker 01

  Oh my God, the energy level of these guys running around.

• 1:12:15Bill Simmons?

  Sleep in four hours a day. He doesn't care. Um, is, oh, this is a good one.

• 1:12:23Bill Simmons?

  Actually, I'll save it. Let's do an easy one for real. You believe in the in the variable bump? Is the variable bump for real?

• 1:12:30Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  Just kidding. I just wanted to get you nervous.

• 1:12:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that would hurt my feelings.

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  I know. I know. You're very pro variable. I get it.

• 1:12:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I read everything every day. Everybody's just the accountability is back.

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  It's a lot. It's a lot.

• 1:12:44Bill Simmons?

  Well, people are excited. We barely barely had a coach last year.

• 1:12:49Speaker 01

  I get it, but they're they're kind of going a little overboard on it like it's like we're going to shove variable D on your throat so much that you're going to forget about Tron now. Like, we're going to somehow make you not remember those final years of Belichick and whatever that situation was gone was and um, and look, I get it. It's it is. And and I get it. He's the perfect person. Obviously, the the history there and the fact that he actually is a good coach, right? Like, this isn't smoke and mirrors. They're not just like getting a rah rah guy in, um, which is probably the thing about him that gets misunderstood most from covering him so many years of just I think people think he's just

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  like a tough guy that like cheers on guys and motivates well, but he he has a plan. He's a detail psycho. Um, his game management is is some of the best in football. He cares about dumb shit.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  That I think is dumb, but I get why he does and why he's his entire staff is obsessed over things like I remember in Tennessee.

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  On Fridays, they like basically put together a tape called dumb shit, I think is what they called it. And Braves would have his assistant pull all the dumb stuff from the week prior, from that Sunday prior of mistakes teams were making, like self inflicted shit, you know, and then show it to the team.

• 1:14:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:21Speaker 01

  And it's a great learning tool, right? Of like, hey, this is what they did in this situation. We don't do that. Um, so I don't know. I just think, I think the entire organization is energized with him being there because there's a plan. He knows exactly what he is. He knows exactly what he wants a team to be. Um, and he knows how to press buttons. The, the clips I've been watching where he's, he's just barking back at some of these guys, which I think is fun, right?

• 1:14:47Bill Simmons?

  He's gone after a couple of the reporters already. He just, if he doesn't like the question, or if you feel, somebody, I think it was last week, somebody asked a question that somebody else had asked and he just like went right after the guy who asked it. He just was like, I don't have time for this.

• 1:15:02Speaker 01

  Well, he's another one. Like if, if he doesn't like you, like it's not a secret.

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  You know, like I've battled with him over the years on things. Like I remember doing something stupid in a press con. I asked a, I asked a bad question.

• 1:15:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:15Speaker 01

  It was about injuries, which he doesn't talk injuries and I'd known at that point that he doesn't like to do it, but I did it anyway because I think it was the playoffs. So he like, he just like ices you out for a while. This is how he is. Um, but he gets it too though. Like he gets me. He, he's, he, everyone thinks he's like Belichick and he is a little bit when it comes to injuries and media. Um, but it, but he gets it. I, I just think, uh, my expectations aren't as high as everybody else is for this team, but I understand it. Like I, I get why Patriot fans are feeling this like euphoria right now.

• 1:15:54Bill Simmons?

  I peaked a week ago. They're, they're.

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  What did you see that made you peak?

• 1:15:59Bill Simmons?

  I think that some of the stuff coming out with the rookies who have been, I think more up and down and less reliable than we were hoping is they hit the jackpot with the third round guard, Wilson. But Campbell's been a little up and down. Kyle Williams, the receiver, who I, I think everybody thought was going to play. He's been dropping balls and, um, so I don't know if the, we'll see. But this is where Brable is going to have to work his magic. But I, I thought the draft was going to be like an A plus for them and it might be like a B plus or a B.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  I don't know. Will Campbell, Campbell's going to start. Jared Wilson's going to start. Henderson, Williams, Wilson.

• 1:16:35Bill Simmons?

  All the Pats beat writers are saying that Campbell's gets beat at least twice a practice. So, uh,

• 1:16:41Speaker 01

  People, people I've been talking to say that.

• 1:16:43Bill Simmons?

  I needed the cool off.

• 1:16:45Speaker 01

  I, I have heard. If there was a bright spot of New England right now, it's actually the offensive line. So, but by the way, don't go by us idiots on the ground sometimes because I've made this mistake.

• 1:16:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:59Speaker 01

  Whereas I do that and then the coaches will tell me later, like, you didn't even know what we were doing. Like you had no idea what that draw was. You thought it was something else and there's a reason. Like, we actually tied his arm behind his back and you just didn't see it. Like, you know what I mean? So, yeah, look, I love the Pats beat reporters. They're actually my favorite group.

• 1:17:18Bill Simmons?

  We have great beat reporters.

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  They're awesome.

• 1:17:20Bill Simmons?

  I'm just, listen, I was ready to predict 12 and 5 a week ago. Now I've calmed down. That's all I'm saying.

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  We'll see. We'll see how Drake takes this step. It all hinges on that.

• 1:17:29Bill Simmons?

  I agree. Okay, here we go. Is this real?

• 1:17:35Bill Simmons?

  The Rogers, Tomlin, Love Fest.

• 1:17:40Bill Simmons?

  Including a big piece I read, I think it was in The Athletic by Michael Silver,

• 1:17:45Bill Simmons?

  about this relationship they've forged. I just always have my guard up with all Aaron Rodgers' content the last couple of years. I never know what's real, what's not real. And this is a great example. Is this real? Do the Steelers actually think Aaron Rodgers is gonna take them to like the AFC Championship game? Do they think this?

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  I think the relationship question is real.

• 1:18:08Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:18:08Speaker 01

  I think part of Mike Silver's piece was that Aaron kind of fell for Tomlin because when Mike was sitting with him, his recall was really good. Like, I mean, to me, it sounds like basic listening, but I guess people weren't listening to Aaron Rodgers or something. Because it was like sensitive stuff, personal things that I guess Aaron was sharing with him. And Mike asked him about it and stayed in touch with him about it.

• 1:18:33Speaker 01

  To me, it's like, yeah, of course he listened to you and stayed in touch with you because he didn't have a quarterback. Like, why are you so excited that the head coach of a team that paid a gazillion dollars for a wide receiver, you know, is calling Aaron Rodgers, who could potentially be the answer?

• 1:18:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, no, Tomlin was on that, he was on the long drive where there was no stop for food with hungry kids in the backseat. And at some point, you just kind of settle for the sandwich shop you've never heard of. And Rogers was the sandwich shop. It's like, I need to feed my kids.

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:11Bill Simmons?

  Rogers like, he looks like a quarterback. He's famous. I guess we're gonna have to roll the dice with him. I thought he was bad last year. I know the stats say otherwise. There's good advanced stuff. I didn't think he wanted to get hit anymore. I'm always gonna think that. I don't think he wants to get hit anymore.

• 1:19:25Speaker 01

  There's a couple factors. I never thought that the Jets situation, I initially thought the Jets situation was smart. I thought that was a great move by New York at the time for where they were at. But I quickly learned that he needed the right personality at that head coach position. And, and I don't think Robert Sala was good for him, um, which I think we all learned that. And look, the injury thing is, is a whole nother story. I do think the Mike Tomlin personality is great for an Aaron Rodgers, because Aaron Rodgers needs to be told, we know you have an opinion. We know this is what you think, but this is what we're doing.

• 1:20:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:01Speaker 01

  Right? There, it's essentially maybe even making him feel like he's part of it. But at the end of the day, Mike Tomlin's calling the shots and I think Rogers respects him enough to go, okay, I'll shut up. We'll do what you say. And Arthur Smith's the same way. Arthur's tough. Arthur's like, I don't know if you've ever seen him in interviews, like he's a nice guy, um, but he's sharp and, and, and he'll, he'll make it work for Aaron, but he's not gonna let Aaron push him around on, on this is what we're gonna do, because I'm Aaron Rodgers. So from, from a fit standpoint with the personalities of those guys there, I like it. I think it works.

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  But I, I still don't know if he has enough in him at the age, the injury still, um, to, to really take this team to the playoffs.

• 1:20:49Bill Simmons?

  Maybe I'm too old, but I, I just feel like I've been down this road with the famous athletes that are past their prime, but you can kind of get excited about it, talk yourself into it. The best case scenario was Favre. The first, he sucked on the Jets. The first Vikings year, they were actually good.

• 1:21:05Speaker 01

  Well, he didn't suck with the Jets.

• 1:21:06Bill Simmons?

  Well, I mean, that team sucked and he got hurt, but I mean, that, what'd they go, like five and 11, whatever happened?

• 1:21:11Speaker 01

  They went, they were, I think they were, didn't they go to the playoffs? So they were about to go to the playoffs and then he got hurt. So yeah, anyways, it didn't work.

• 1:21:19Bill Simmons?

  Well, he left. I thought it didn't work. Well, as we said earlier, like we can't remember things anymore. The Jets thing, whatever. He went to Minnesota. They almost made the Super Bowl, but then the next year was bad.

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  When's the last time we saw, like outside Brett? When's the last time an old player joined a team and we were like, like Odell Beckham with the Rams? That one year? Like, I'm trying to think of like, an old player that you're like excited about and they're actually good. What about in Washington? They're all old. They're pretty good there.

• 1:21:51Bill Simmons?

  It's tough with quarterbacks and basketball gets tough. We see this like when like Carmelo Anthony got older. It's like Oklahoma City has added Carmelo Anthony and it's like, it's not Carmelo Anthony anymore. It's a different point of his career. Like when, I guess Brady going to the Bucks is the best all time kid, but Brady almost doesn't count in these because he's Brady.

• 1:22:08Speaker 01

  It doesn't.

• 1:22:09Bill Simmons?

  But yeah, the Emmitt Smith going to the Cardinals, like, I don't know. It's just, you kind of know how it's going to go each time. In this case, like their offensive line, I think is, it seems like it's going to be pretty good this year.

• 1:22:23Speaker 01

  John Carl Stanton?

• 1:22:24Bill Simmons?

  Pretty good.

• 1:22:25Speaker 01

  Bad, right? I'm trying, I'm thinking baseball, sorry, I switched sports in my head. I'm thinking like in baseball, who's like the old folk that we believed in and?

• 1:22:32Bill Simmons?

  Hockey had like Gretzky was on three more teams than I think people remember. Near the end, he's just started like bouncing around. Jerry Rice was on, he was after the Raiders. I think he, did he go to the Redskins? Like there was one other team, yeah. Like he, he kind of kept going. Yeah, I'm not seeing it. My last one for you is, uh,

• 1:22:56Bill Simmons?

  this is from a Jets fan friend of mine who I always kind of trust with the Jets.

• 1:23:03Bill Simmons?

  And they said, listen, I don't know how good we're going to be, but we have an identity this year. I know what this team is. We're going to play defense. We're going to run the ball and Fields is going to run the ball a lot. We have a good offensive line and we're going to be in these ugly games. And I at least know what this is and I actually think it's going to be okay. And I think we might, we're not going to be dangerous, but we might be, you know, a little frisky. What are your, are the Jets frisky, frisky Jets for real for you?

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Okay. He, he's got a good pulse on it. He must be reading Zach Rosenblatt from the Athletic who does a good job of just. Laying it out like Zach's not scared like he's just like this seems stinks or this seems decent. And everything he's been writing from there has been that and I talked to him a lot too. Look, I, I think they were lost. The Rogers experiment was a disaster for a lot of different reasons. And they just cleaned house and, and I know some of it was a little uncomfortable, a little prickly at times with, with all this change. But I think at least, I don't know if Aaron Glenn is going to be a good head coach. Okay. Just like, I don't really know if Ben Johnson's going to be a good head coach.

• 1:24:12Speaker 01

  I just know from talking to people around the league that these guys were great at coaching their units. That doesn't always mean that they're the best CEOs, you know, and

• 1:24:25Speaker 01

  I don't like the fact that Aaron Glenn isn't doing the coaching that he was so great at in Detroit. That is the only reason why I'm like a little bothered by New York, because if your head coach's greatest strength isn't being used, then why is he there? Like that, that, that was what I, that's the reason why I thought New York hired him.

• 1:24:45Bill Simmons?

  But I think as they figure it out as they're coaching, they start putting their tentacles around and figuring out how to sprinkle in their little fairy dust. The things they know.

• 1:24:55Speaker 01

  And he's a big Parcells disciple, obviously, and he has already mannerisms of them. And I've heard some things that's just like a very Parcells way of conducting things, meetings, dealing with the coaching staff.

• 1:25:07Bill Simmons?

  He also wanted to coach the Jets, which isn't any, any small thing. Like he actually wanted the job. He wasn't leveraging them. He wasn't like, oh, you're my last chance to get hired. He was like, I want to, I like the Jets. I want to be your coach. So they went from having complete instability with coaching QB to now at least, whether you like the QB or not, I'm not a huge fan of Fields, but I think if you're going to use them the way they're going to use them, it might, they, they're going to be hard to play. They're going to pull off like two upsets this year. And people are going to be like, oh my God, the Jets are beating the Chiefs or whoever, you know, some giant favorite.

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  Just because I live in Jets Giants land.

• 1:25:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:45Speaker 01

  If you had to pick a team, who are you picking?

• 1:25:48Bill Simmons?

  For, oh, for wins?

• 1:25:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:50Bill Simmons?

  Jets.

• 1:25:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too. Because the division, obviously, but also, I mean, not that, who knows? Your past could.

• 1:25:59Speaker 01

  Be a problem. Uh, they gotta face the bells. They got dealing with Josh coming off an MVP season.

• 1:26:06Bill Simmons?

  It's a pretty good, it's a pretty good division situation. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Excitement is in the air. That's right. It's the start of NBA season. I can't wait to get together with friends, share some Michelob Ultras and watch Tip Off Plus as the official beer sponsor of the NBA. Michelob Ultra is getting you closer to the action with the experiences that make you feel like you're courtside to actual courtside tickets. Enter now for a chance to win at michelobultra.com/courtside. Michelob Ultra Courtside 26 to 27. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21+. Begins on October 1st, 2026. Ends on June 30th, 2027. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at michelobultra.com/courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details.

• 1:26:50Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Whether it's a pumpkin spice coffee that goes splat in your seat or a weekend tailgate that leaves your trunk full of gear and who knows what, you're gonna want WeatherTech in your vehicle. Whether you call it fall, autumn or spooky season, whether the mess is your fault, the kids, the dogs or the weather's fault, you're gonna want WeatherTech for American-made floor liners and a cargo liner that laugh in the face of fall weather. Visit weatherTech.com today. What's uh, what was your for real? Cause we gotta wrap up.

• 1:27:17Speaker 01

  Uh, all right. My for real.

• 1:27:21Speaker 01

  The Minnesota Vikings seem thrilled about J.J. McCarthy, that he's the guy.

• 1:27:28Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:27:29Speaker 01

  Is this real?

• 1:27:35Bill Simmons?

  What else are they gonna say?

• 1:27:38Speaker 01

  It's a lot.

• 1:27:41Bill Simmons?

  He didn't play football for a year.

• 1:27:44Bill Simmons?

  There was that story about how my buddy House loved this, how Kevin O'Connell talked to him for an hour to try to simulate last season, simulate the process they would have when he was the starting QB. But he's coming off a major injury and he hasn't played football in two years. Like, I'd be nervous if I was a Vikings fan. It's not great.

• 1:28:05Speaker 01

  First of all, House, that was my story.

• 1:28:08Bill Simmons?

  Which one?

• 1:28:09Speaker 01

  I remember doing that. I did that for one of my insider notes of every week. Kyle spends an hour.

• 1:28:16Bill Simmons?

  Look at House's quoting. This is great.

• 1:28:19Speaker 01

  But it's funny to hear it back because it's so stupid. I wish I wrote that. I wish I like at the time it felt productive. Like, look at this hands-on coach, including the young quarterback.

• 1:28:31Bill Simmons?

  I didn't mind it. I just don't know if that's gonna, if it means he's gonna be a quarterback. Yeah.

• 1:28:35Speaker 01

  They're using virtual reality. They're doing all this. And, you know, then he lost all the weight. But, but really, what, what, what House is saying is he lost the reps. That's what he, you need the reps on scout team. Right? Whether, whether he was starting or not, he needed to be out there. And he lost all of that, as well as the weight. Which he seemed to, you know, he's back and he, from what I heard, had an awesome spring.

• 1:29:01Speaker 01

  But look, this is a team, they are built to win. They are built to win. They let Sam Darnold walk. They let Daniel Jones walk. They let Aaron Rodgers walk. And they stuck with him because they believed in him. So they know something we don't.

• 1:29:20Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:29:20Bill Simmons?

  Well, where they took him in the draft, like, he kind of has to be good. Their whole setup was meant for them to win a title with a quarterback on the rookie scale. A little like Denver, actually. Although Denver's playing with 30 million less than the salary cap.

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  I guess you have to make that move. Like, if you're the owner and you're looking at it, you're going, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna stick with the, the guy we drafted.

• 1:29:45Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:45Speaker 01

  But from like a win now? I don't know. I bet you we could debate it.

• 1:29:51Bill Simmons?

  The question for me is how much is he gonna have to do? Because their defense, they have, you know, a top five coaching staff. They have good defense. They should be able to block, we think. They have Jefferson. They hopefully have Addison. Hawkinson, full year.

• 1:30:10Bill Simmons?

  Could he, could he just kind of steer the car? Does he have to actually get on the highway and go into the carpool lane and start dodging around?

• 1:30:17Speaker 01

  I'm gonna be down there or out there in Minnesota next week. I'll let you know, but I, I'm, my guess, they're gonna keep it simple with him. Well, I mean, it's, but a lot of this is gonna be, can the quarterback keep it simple? I, as much as Kevin Connaughton is fantastic and staff is great, but sometimes these, look at how he was, how he played in college, right? Like, I wouldn't call that simple.

• 1:30:40Bill Simmons?

  The schedule, I remember um,

• 1:30:44Bill Simmons?

  not being happy with it.

• 1:30:47Bill Simmons?

  Cause especially like they play the uh, well, they play the second place one, but they start out with like the two night games in a row, home Cincy, then they go to Dublin and London in the first five weeks. Like for a guy who's just trying to get his, his sea legs in this position, it's just not a normal first five weeks. So that, that would make me nervous about them, but um, I weirdly like them more than Green Bay though. A lot of people are high on Green Bay and I don't know, that was the other for real I was gonna ask you is do you, we're now, it's, it's year two of this is gonna be Jordan Love's giant breakout season. He got hurt at the beginning of last year and now we're playing all the hits again.

• 1:31:26Bill Simmons?

  I don't love his receivers at all. I know they spent a lot of capital on him, but I don't think he has a reliable receiver. Jacobs, whatever, there's a lot of good advanced stats about him not being as good as the actual stats or their offensive line's fine. But I don't, some people think like he's gonna become a top five quarterback this year and I don't know if, I don't know if I'm down with that one.

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  I'm taking Minnesota over Green Bay right now.

• 1:31:53Bill Simmons?

  I think I am too.

• 1:31:54Speaker 01

  I'm with you from a um,

• 1:31:58Speaker 01

  I just think, but they're coming off, like I, I understand they.

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  They shit the bed against the Rams, but.

• 1:32:05Bill Simmons?

  Two straight weeks.

• 1:32:07Speaker 01

  Look, he- here's the thing with that season two from looking back on it and even just talking to some people there. It kind of reminds me, so in high school, I ran track and my goal was to win the counties.

• 1:32:20Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:20Speaker 01

  And I won the counties, which is cool. Um, and I was new to track, so I didn't know, so stupid. I didn't know after counties you go to states. Um, so all season long I'm training, like I want to win counties, I want to win counties, I win the counties. And then when you win the county, you gotta go play, you gotta go run in the state.

• 1:32:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:35Speaker 01

  And I got my ass kicked. Like I came in like 27th place, like embarrassed Bergen County.

• 1:32:42Speaker 01

  Because my head never like thought big. And I think for the Vikings, I think they did that, which I so such a ridiculous analogy, but it's, I kind of understand it. Their goal was they were so locked in game to game, they weren't thinking big enough. And I think at times it hurt them last year and they poured everything in to that one game and that. When they play the Rams, they're just like, ooh, not good enough because they were like spent. Um, which we've seen before in playoff games, you know, where you see them all. Ready to go for the championship game and they come to the super bowl, they're not, they're not prepared because they're all jammed up for the, for the divisional game or the championship game. Um, but.

• 1:33:26Bill Simmons?

  Oh, good.

• 1:33:28Speaker 01

  But for right now where I'm at and how I feel about these situations, I just have more confidence in Minnesota.

• 1:33:36Bill Simmons?

  The McCarthy thing makes me nervous. So you're traveling to a bunch of training camps over the next couple of weeks, I assume?

• 1:33:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I got a little Minnesota. I'm going to see your Patriots soon. Got to go to Washington. I'll ring up House, see if he's around. Um.

• 1:33:50Bill Simmons?

  Is there a team that we, we didn't talk about that you're just intrigued by that you feel like people are sleeping on?

• 1:33:56Speaker 01

  The Houston Texans.

• 1:33:59Speaker 01

  I think they've got a really good defense.

• 1:34:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:03Speaker 01

  I have, I had concerns off season about that offensive line. Obviously they traded Laramie Tunsil to the Washington commanders, but Cassero's got that Patriot way, right?

• 1:34:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:16Speaker 01

  Where like he always gets rid of players before they peak.

• 1:34:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:20Speaker 01

  Um, so that was like, yeah, no, right before they peak. Oh no, right after. You're right.

• 1:34:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:25Speaker 01

  Just as they peak. And then he's like, yeah, we're good.

• 1:34:27Bill Simmons?

  He's selling, selling two years or a year and a half too early, but it's not actually too early. It's the perfect time, but nobody realizes it.

• 1:34:35Speaker 01

  So I think they were a team I was hot on last year. I was not predicting that sophomore slump from CJ, especially I was at camp with them. In fact, good news for you. I remember Diggs, I remember CJ telling me about Diggs last year, just like how competitive he is and intense and like what a leader. And it's funny too, because Diggs is one of those guys like on social media and obviously the CORDP stuff and all the ridiculousness.

• 1:35:01Speaker 01

  You think he's probably not locked in, but even just talking to people in New England, like they love him up there.

• 1:35:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:08Speaker 01

  Love him.

• 1:35:09Bill Simmons?

  They wanted like some sort of alpha, set, set the example, forge relationships with people, some sort of veteran connective tissue, but somebody who's actually good.

• 1:35:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:19Bill Simmons?

  Cause it's something that the veterans, but they actually have to be good in the drills. They have to be good in the practice, which is the second piece of it.

• 1:35:27Speaker 01

  And I also think that's kind of a variable thing too, of like, he needed his kind of dudes there to like push the message of what he needs and wants. And I think Diggs is, I don't know if they had a relationship prior, but I'm going to guess he did his work on them. They're not bringing him in unless they think.

• 1:35:45Bill Simmons?

  Well, look at the personalities they brought in like Spillane.

• 1:35:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:48Bill Simmons?

  Will Campbell, Diggs, like they have these dudes now that are walking around their chests out like alpha dudes, which I think that was the biggest thing he wanted to change. Can you make your own meat sauce?

• 1:36:00Speaker 01

  Yes, okay. Every Sunday I do.

• 1:36:01Bill Simmons?

  What's your, what's your number one Italian meal that you make?

• 1:36:06Speaker 01

  Um, I pro- I like, what's my best?

• 1:36:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, what's your, what's your, yeah, what's your number one?

• 1:36:12Speaker 01

  So it's neck and neck. Um, I make a really good linguine clam sauce and

• 1:36:18Bill Simmons?

  Interesting.

• 1:36:20Speaker 01

  Um, my husband would say my chicken parm. He loves my chicken parm. Uh, he gets that, uh, when the Eagles lose because I always feel bad. I also try to do it to make him happy because a miserable Philadelphia fan is, uh, is my hell. So you make the belly happy.

• 1:36:37Bill Simmons?

  He won the title last year. He can, he can settle down. And they have the most talented team this year.

• 1:36:43Speaker 01

  I FaceTimed him after they won because I was at the game.

• 1:36:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:49Speaker 01

  And, uh, you know, he's crying, which is so freaking weird, but he's crying. Oh my God. Oh my God. Um, and so he's like going to the game with me and I'm rushing, by the way, I gotta, I gotta do a job, you know? But I was just doing, I love him and you know, he loves his Eagles probably more than me, but

• 1:37:07Bill Simmons?

  You gotta work.

• 1:37:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I gotta go do my thing. So he starts talking to me about like, what do you think we're going to do at corner next year though? Like I'm like, what?

• 1:37:16Bill Simmons?

  Oh, he already moved to next season? Jesus.

• 1:37:18Speaker 01

  He kinda Travis Kelsey'd me. You know what I mean? Like he's already like thinking that, I'm like, not, not now. Like not now.

• 1:37:26Bill Simmons?

  He probably started thinking at halftime because the game was over. Started thinking about next season.

• 1:37:29Speaker 01

  It's true. Nuts, right? I know. It's just, it's the second, but that's what makes Philadelphia great is like, they're just never satisfied. And that they're just not, they don't even care about that Super Bowl now.

• 1:37:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that's how you have to be. That's the Tom Brady. What's your favorite Super Bowl? The next one.

• 1:37:46Bill Simmons?

  All right. Diane Russini, thank you. This is great. You can, uh, by the way, uh, can read your stuff at The Athletic, but also Scoop City is the podcast if you want to go check it out.

• 1:37:55Speaker 01

  Well, House read, House reads my column because he's, he's pulling quotes out of that thing.

• 1:38:00Bill Simmons?

  He does. Yeah. He's quoting you. It is impressive.

• 1:38:03Speaker 01

  Subscriber of The Athletic. I love, by the way, little funny inside thing. So.

• 1:38:10Speaker 01

  Obviously, when, when you're putting out information all the time, people in the league like to read your stuff and they check it out. I can't tell you how many head coaches and general managers will text me, "Hey, saw your article." And I'll write, "Oh, thanks," or whatever, or usually actually, it's more, "I don't like what you said about this." And they'll send me like a, like a clip of something. And I'm like, "That's not like from the website. What is that?" They won't subscribe because they don't want to spend the money.

• 1:38:38Bill Simmons?

  They can't charge it to the team?

• 1:38:39Speaker 01

  Like, you're millionaires. I don't know. It's the most common thing, even players. Like, I'll send a player, if I do like a good feature on them, like, "Hey, check it." I'm like, "Oh," and they'll be like, "Sorry, I'm not a subscriber. I don't like to, like, add up. I don't like to have so many subscriptions in my account." The hell? This is why they're so rich.

• 1:38:58Bill Simmons?

  All right. Thank you. Good to see you. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.

• 1:39:01Speaker 01

  Appreciate you.

• 1:39:03Bill Simmons?

  All right. Thanks to Diana Russini. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well. I am not sure when the next episode of this podcast is going to be. Could be any, I'll keep you on your toes. We'll see. We'll see if, uh, actual sports stuff happens over the next few days. But, uh, odds are you will see me in a week on Sunday, barring something super fun. Don't forget, rewatchables, Monday night, Robocop, and, uh, I will see you down the road.

• 1:39:42Bill Simmons?

  Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino, or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-887-897777, or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut, or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplineMA.org, or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support Massachusetts, or call 1-8778-HOPE.

• 1:40:14Speaker 03

  NY or text HOPE NY in New York.

• 1:40:17Bill Simmons?

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