RE-AIR: Lightening the Mood With a Pegasus Special

Today's episode is a re-airing of a couple of Liv's favourite Pegasus-related episodes, because it's time for something light and silly. Submit your question for the next Q&A via email http://mythsbaby.com/questions or a voice note https://www.speakpipe.com/LTAMB. Get ad-free episodes and so, so much more, by subscribing to the Oracle Edition at patreon.com/mythsbaby http://patreon.com/mythsbaby CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. Given it's fiction, and typically involves gods and/or monsters, I'm not as deferential as I would be were I referencing the real thing. Sources: Sources are referenced in the original episode, Mini Myth: Kind, Noble Theseus, His Herd of Pegasi & the Defeat of the Kraken (April 2021), and All I Really Want Is To Talk About the Fire-Breathing Goat… Bellerophon, Pegasus, and the Chimera (July 2023). [Spoilers: the first one has no sources because it's all a bad joke!]. Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here:mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions http://mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions. Learn more about Liv's next group trips https://travelbugxlivalbert.my.canva.site/ to GREECE! Application deadline is November 30 (Subject to change due to demand). Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Liv Albert?

  Hey nerds, really quick note from me. I want to tell you that we now have the applications open for the next set of listener group trips. This is us going back to the original, the trips that we have held in the past that have been so much fun, so successful, and pretty affordable in terms of wandering around Greece with a bunch of nerds. So, check out the details and get your applications in at mythsbaby.com/groups.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  75% of women who seek menopause care don't receive it. The lying awake at 3 a.m. wondering what's happening to your body ends now. Midi is virtual care built for women in perimenopause and menopause with clinicians who specialize in women's health. Plus, it's covered by most major insurances. Getting started is easy. You can book your first visit with a clinician right away. Midlife needs Midi. Visit joinmidi.com to book your first visit today. That's join m-i-d-i dot com. Insurance coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  Hi, everyone. It's Katie Couric. And on my podcast, Next Question, we love stories about how women are taking control of their lives. They are increasingly leading financial decisions in their households, yet many say they don't feel fully prepared for the long-term financial choices ahead. Real confidence comes from knowing your financial future is protected, whatever happens. Pacific Life has helped generations protect what matters today and prepare for tomorrow with life insurance and lifetime income solutions. It's a promise Pacific Life has kept for nearly 160 years, so its customers can keep theirs.

• 1:55Speaker 02

  Ask a financial professional about how Pacific Life can help you create a more confident financial future. Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska, and in New York, Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona.

• 2:38Liv Albert?

  Hi, hello, welcome. This is Let's Talk About Myths, baby! And I am your host, Liv, she who notoriously absolutely loves Theseus and thinks he did some of the best things in all of Greek mythology, rivaled only by Jason, who obviously also did some pretty amazing and respectable and kind things.

• 3:02Liv Albert?

  Today, I am here with a very special mini-myth, a story I haven't told before, but isn't it about time? It's time for the little-known story of Theseus amongst all the other great and heroic deeds he committed: the time he and his herd of Pegasus defeated the kraken itself.

• 3:30Liv Albert?

  Mini-myth: Kind, noble Theseus, his herd of Pegasus, and the defeat of the kraken.

• 3:45Liv Albert?

  One of the least-known stories of the island of Santorini begins with our favorite hero, Theseus.

• 3:54Liv Albert?

  In the midst of one of his most heroic deeds, Theseus found himself on the island of Santorini. Of course, the island of Santorini was absolutely called Santorini and was built up with the stunning white-and-blue architecture that it's so famous for. In one of his token-good moods, Theseus sought out to help some of the kind people of Santorini. He was feeling particularly loving and friendly that day, just looking to do some good.

• 4:30Liv Albert?

  The people of Santorini were being terrorized by one of the most famous monsters of Greek mythology. Famous absolutely for living in the Mediterranean and tormenting Greek sailors, definitely Greek. The people of Santorini, Greece, were being terrorized by the infamous kraken. Oh, such a monstrous beast that was definitely Greek. But how would kind and noble Theseus defeat the kraken of Greek mythology? He was too nice to come up with an idea himself, not at all used to having to kill people or monsters.

• 5:14Liv Albert?

  Fortunately, the people of Santorini had an idea. You see, there happened to be a species of mythical animals that were native to the island, that would be perfect aids for Theseus in his fight against the Greek kraken.

• 5:32Liv Albert?

  He was directed to a particular spot on the island, a very flat plain of land on the island of Santorini, where a herd of pegasi was known to graze. Because this herd of pegasi, that is, flying horses whose breed was called Pegasus, were born on that very island. It's said they were born from the loving union between Perseus and Poseidon, a hero and god known for their beautiful relationship. On this very flat field on the ancient island named Santorini, kind and noble Theseus met this herd of pegasi.

• 6:16Liv Albert?

  They would be the perfect companion for his fight against the Greek sea monster, the kraken. How very lucky that the ancient Greek people of Santorini knew about this herd of pegasi.

• 6:33Liv Albert?

  So Theseus leapt atop the back of one of these Pegasus, I don't think they had names of their own, and off he flew, with the rest of the herd flying after him. Off they flew to defeat the Greek kraken. And that's precisely what good, noble, heroic Theseus did. He, riding atop the unnamed Pegasus horse with the rest of the Pegasus herd flying valiantly behind them, reached the Greek sea monster, the kraken, and together they defeated the monster, freeing the ancient Greek island of Santorini from its horrible grasp.

• 7:18Liv Albert?

  And that, my dear listeners, was just one of the beautiful and kind actions done in the lifetime of this, the greatest, kindest, and definitely most respectful to women, Theseus.

• 7:53Liv Albert?

  JK, JK, April Fools, "Theseus was a piece of human garbage who did absolutely nothing redeeming. There was only one flying horse, named Pegasus, goddammit. The Greek island of Santorini was called Thera in the ancient world and was a volcanic and a mountain, and the kraken is from fucking Norse mythology, but this was really fun."

• 8:20Liv Albert?

  Echidna was the mother of Chimera, who breathed raging fire, a creature fearful, great, swift-footed and strong, who had three heads, one of a grim-eyed lion, in her hinder part, a draken. And in her middle, a goat, breathing forth a fearful blast of blazing fire. Her did Pegasus and noble Bellerophonnes slay.

• 9:17Liv Albert?

  Oh, hello there. This is Let's Talk About Myths, baby, and I am your host. She who loves the chimera more than any other Greek monster because fire-breathing goat-head, Liv.

• 9:35Liv Albert?

  Lately, I've been looking really closely at like, what myths and plays that I still have to cover on the show, and equally closely at myths that are detailed and important, and also just like, fucking, super fun, um, that I may have already told, you know, in the very early days of the podcast, before I had such a handle on ancient sourcing and nuance and history and the like. I know they say this a lot, but I was thinking about it again. There aren't a lot of like, explicit mythological stories that I haven't already covered on the show. I've been doing this a while. There are lots of plays still to go, lots of characters still to examine, but in terms of detailed myths, well, I've covered most, if not all of them, which means revisiting others that I know I can do better, that I know I can share more details about, and frankly, sometimes it means revisiting

• 10:20Liv Albert?

  stories that I just, that I just really want to tell again. For me, this is one of those.

• 10:33Liv Albert?

  I've been calling this guy Belly Boy in my head for the last two days. I've been really struggling with my ADHD lately, and unfortunately, my brain really has trouble with episodes where I have to pull stories from nothing, or pull details from, you know, like, I don't know, a bazillion different sources that all say different things and none of it is a story, whatever. Like, I love those episodes. I find them fascinating. But when they're a weekly occurrence, it means I have a hell of a lot of trouble keeping up, just making sure I'm doing it quickly enough and that I still have time to, like, you know, also enjoy my life and work on other projects. And they're just not as fun for me. I find them rewarding and I like them, but they're not fun. But sometimes I

• 11:15Liv Albert?

  need fun for my ADHD dopamine lacking brain. So after covering the fascinating eastern origins of Aphrodite and even her time with Adonis, both of which are prime examples of the episode types that I struggle with, I wanted something that was just seriously fucking fun. Enter the Leraphon. Now, I originally told this story back in, like, I want to say 2018, so, you know, some time ago. Even back then, I framed the story as the forgotten hero of Greek myth, and it's still so damn true. He deserved his own episode back then, and he deserves another

• 11:56Liv Albert?

  one now. Plus, you know, there's a fucking monster with a fire-breathing goat sprouting off of its back. So again, this episode is for me. It's for my struggling ADHD. It's for my desire to enjoy my summer without working every moment of the day, and it's for my fucking obsession with the bizarre monstrosity that is the Chimera.

• 12:33Liv Albert?

  This is episode 221. All I really want is to talk about the fire-breathing goat. The Leraphon, Pegasus, and the Chimera.

• 12:57Liv Albert?

  The quote that I read at the top of this episode is from Hesiod's Theogony. It's where we get my favorite detail about the chimera, that she had a goat's head protruding off of her lion's back and that it breathed fucking fire. But I'm getting ahead of myself because I love the chimera too damn much. First, we have to talk about a king of Corinth named Glaukis and a young woman from the royal house of Athens, Euryneme. Euryneme caught the eye of Glaukis and, as men of Greek myth are wont to do, he immediately determined that he just wanted to, he had to marry her. So unlike many of men of Greek myth, he actually looked at wooing her himself, putting in

• 13:40Liv Albert?

  the work to show Euryneme that he could be the husband that she wanted and deserved. Euryneme, it seems, was also seriously lovely. She'd been taught crafts by Athena herself, and Hesiod even talks about how fucking great she smelled. He tells us that, quote, "A marvelous scent rose from her silver raiment as she moved, and beauty was wafted from her eyes."

• 14:11Liv Albert?

  Interesting ways of describing how impressive she is, certainly, like talking about the smell of her clothes and beauty wafting from her eyes? I mean, still, the point remains, she was awesome and Glaukis wanted her.

• 14:25Liv Albert?

  With the help of Athena, he set out to impress her, like every modern woman wants to be impressed. He drove oxen for her. Fucking sexy, I know, you've gotta love a man who can drive some fucking oxen.

• 14:41Liv Albert?

  Well, for all Glaukis was seriously impressive in driving his oxen, Zeus wasn't having any of it. See, Glaukis was related to a certain man that Zeus wasn't particularly fond of: Sisyphus. Glaukis was Sisyphus's son, and he had angered Zeus so completely that Zeus was fully ready to take out his lasting fury on Sisyphus's children. Sisyphus, plural or possessive, is not an easy word to say. And yes, being reminded of this, it did give me the idea to talk about Sisyphus again in more detail, and the punishments in Tartarus generally, but for obvious reasons, that's coming in October.

• 15:20Liv Albert?

  Today, we want to know his, his son, who's angered Zeus just by the very nature of being Sisyphus's son. When Zeus saw that Glaukis was interested in marrying Euryonemi, he determined that Glaukis would never be permitted to have a child with only one father. Which I know doesn't actually make any genetic or biological sense, we have to go with it. You'll understand the intent in just a moment. The point is that Zeus was going to ensure that any son of Glaukis was, well, not really a son of Glaukis. And it started immediately. Immediately after Euryonemi and Glaukis married, because of course, she was so fucking down

• 16:05Liv Albert?

  for the man who was so talented at driving those oxen. Immediately after they married and, and went to, one imagines, you know, making babies, Euryonemi was, was also with Poseidon. Not Zeus, shocking, but Poseidon. And surprise, surprise, that encounter led her to becoming pregnant with a baby boy that she and Glaukis named Bellerophon.

• 16:32Liv Albert?

  Kind of, but we'll get there. Now gods, we all know Poseidon's MO, but we also know how I personally feel about that particular god, and I'm biased as all hell. So I'm just gonna go ahead and make the educated guess that this encounter between Eurydice and Poseidon probably wasn't necessarily, you know, like sought after by Eurydice? The minimal details we have are from Hesiod, and gods only know, he doesn't ever weigh in on whether or not the woman was interested in the god's advances. But beyond Hesiod, we hear only that Poseidon is indeed the biological father of Bellerophon. But like the other heroes with divine daddies, he's also referred to as the son of Glaucus,

• 17:14Liv Albert?

  which just links back to Zeus's little curse on that king of Corinth. Regardless of what we are to understand about his origins, Bellerophon has been born to Eurydice, and this makes him a prince of Corinth.

• 17:30Liv Albert?

  As to his name, some sources will tell you that the name Bellerophon actually means Slayer of Beleros. And this has often been interpreted to mean that, like, well, he killed somebody named Beleros and took the name from there, having had another name that he was born with. That's not impossible, but you see, the name apparently could also be derived from something more like wielder of missiles, which fits just as well, if not better, because spoilies, he's gonna wield a missile.

• 18:03Liv Albert?

  My boy Bellerophon is most famous for killing the chimera, often Lysia, modern Turkey, Anatolia. But how he got to that point in his life is debated. Some say he killed a man and was sent off in punishment, that that man was even his brother, or you know, named Beleros. Others have a whole different story, and the other in question here is Homer. So gods know, we're gonna go with his version for the storytelling of it all. And in Homer, he doesn't kill anyone. There's just this moment in the Iliad where Bellerophon's grandson, a king of Lysia, named for his ancestor Glaucus, he's there to help the Trojans,

• 18:47Liv Albert?

  and he's telling Diomedes, the Greek, the story of his grandfather Bellerophon.

• 18:54Liv Albert?

  And yes, all of this story appears to happen mid-battle. Because of course it does, this is a Trojan, or on the Trojan side, talking to, uh, on the Greek side. But about like his family history. Glauca tells Diomedes, in between stabbing at him with a spear, maybe, one can only imagine, that Bellerophon was born blameless, that his greatness was without question, that the gods granted him, quote, "beauty and desirable manhood."

• 19:27Liv Albert?

  I take this to mean that he was a sexy, sexy man. Only a sexy hero could defeat the chimera. But before that, he's got some shit to go through. You see, in Homer's version, Bellerophon was, was living alongside a man named Pritus, and that man had a wife named Antia. Or maybe she was named Stenobia? We'll call her Antia for the sake of simplicity. And again, there are other takes on the, the why that Bellerophon was with these people. Sometimes it's said that, again, he accidentally murdered someone, and that's why he ended up with Pritus and Antia. That he'd fled there for purification, you know, the typical mythological response to murder,

• 20:10Liv Albert?

  just going somewhere else and having them tell you that it's okay? I mean, fine, there is a bit more to it, but that is the gist. And maybe, you know, the person he accidentally killed was even his brother, like I said, or, you know, a guy named Bellerus. But everyone's got a different reason for why Bellerophon was there. But the point is, that he was.

• 20:34Liv Albert?

  And, well, Antia, it seems, took a liking to Bellerophon. Because again, he was sexy as shit, the gods made it so. But he was also so-called blameless? And so when Antia came on to him, he wasn't interested. She was married, he was virtuous. It was a big no-no for Bellerophon. But Antia, well, she didn't like to be rejected like that. She's got some Phaedra and Hippolytus vibes here, ugh. And we're told that she went to her husband and told him that Bellerophon had raped her, that he should kill the man for what he'd done. Now, for obvious reasons, I truly loathe stories with false rape accusations.

• 21:19Liv Albert?

  This is myth, though, and for all I like to make assumptions about the actions of Poseidon, it seems only fair to also float the idea that maybe, at least according to some people who heard or told this story, like, maybe it wasn't a false accusation. I would like to allow space for ancient people who might have seen it that way, but for the sake of Bellerophon and his story, we're sticking to the text that we have. And according to that, it was false. And Antia's husband was horrified, furious that Bellerophon would do something so treacherous and disgusting. I mean, good for him for being mad. But, well, he wasn't actually up for killing Bellerophon himself. Is this because he feared retribution from the gods?

• 22:04Liv Albert?

  Maybe. Or was he just pretty fucking sure that he couldn't defeat a guy like Bellerophon? Also very possible. For the sake of the story, though, he sought to kill Bellerophon in a very creative way. "He handed Bellerophon a tablet and told him to travel to Lysia, where Antia was from, to visit her father, Iobates, who ruled there." Bellerophon looked at the tablet that Pritus had sent with him, but it looked like nonsense to him, just a few odd symbols inscribbled on the tablet. Nothing he recognized. So he thought nothing of it. He travels with a small convoy, and with the help of the gods, he gets to Lysia,

• 22:48Liv Albert?

  where he was welcomed by the lord there, Antia's father, Iobates. "The man showed him true hospitality, xenia everywhere, that sacred Hellenic rite of the guest-host relationship. It was a warm welcome. They feasted for nine days, celebrated every evening. It sounded awesome. Fun times with lots of food, music, just a great time all around."

• 23:16Liv Albert?

  After those nine days had passed, though, as this translation by Latimer explains, quote, "When the rose fingers of the tenth dawn showed." I just love dawn and every way they phrase it. The man hosting Bellerophon, this king, Iobates, finally opened the visit up to questions. He asked Bellerophon if his son-in-law, Pritus, had sent him with anything, any news or a message, you know, for him. "Ah, of course," Bellerophon realized when he was asked. "It's funny you say so. I happen to have a nice bit of tablet with some nonsense inscribbled upon it." And with that, he just handed Iobates the tablet.

• 23:58Liv Albert?

  And, well, as you might have guessed, there were more than just inscribbles on this tablet. There were symbols that were nonsense to Bellerophon, but to Pritus's father-in-law, they were very clear. A request to kill, or have killed, Bellerophon. Dun dun dun.

• 24:44Liv Albert?

  I don't know what I'm on in this episode, but I'm here for it. That damned tablet was coming back to bite Bellerophon right on his apparently beautiful and blameless ass. Iobates has received the tablet from Bellerophon with those goddamned inscribbled symbols that told him that Pritus, his son-in-law, what he wants. For Bellerophon not to return to Corinth, he wants Bellerophon dead. But just like his son-in-law, Iobates seems not willing to try to kill Bellerophon himself. This is a running theme with heroes, of course, and certainly a running theme with Bellerophon. We're not finished with it.

• 25:28Liv Albert?

  The men who wish them dead aren't willing to try to do the job themselves. They all know they'd fail. So Iobates goes about attempting to have Bellerophon killed in the now oh-so-familiar way.

• 25:44Liv Albert?

  Just like Polydectes sent Perseus to kill the Gorgon Medusa in an attempt to kill him off, just like Eurystheus had Heracles go off and complete his twelve labors in, well, twelve attempts to have the hero killed, Iobates sends Bellerophon off on a quest to kill the local monster, the resident child of Echidna, the Chimera.

• 26:11Liv Albert?

  Which means it's now my time to shine, as if the rest of this episode hasn't been. My time to regale you with the details on my all-time favorite Greek mythological monster, she who rules the plains of Lysia, causing trouble and fire in her wake, the fucking Chimera.

• 26:35Liv Albert?

  Why is the Chimera so magnificent, you ask? Gods, that you even have to ask has me questioning all of your virtues, but fine, now let me tell you. There are so many monsters of Greek myth, and sure, they are all wonderful and weird in their own unique ways, but how many of them include fire-breathing goat heads? Exactly, just one. Not only does the Chimera appeal to every kind of monster that you might want, like big scary cat, check, angry serpent, check, furious fire-breathing head of an animal that otherwise should be harmless and silly, fucking check.

• 27:13Liv Albert?

  Again, gods, I'm having fun with this episode, this is everything my weird and neurodivergent brain needed. Let me tell you more about my good friend, the Chimera. Firstly, for all the descriptions of ancient Greek monsters, for all they love to vary across the sources, you know, be weirder in some than others, get blown out of proportion in later sources, the Chimera has stayed true to her origins, or rather, her origins were true to her.

• 27:46Liv Albert?

  See, both Hesiod and Homer agree on the key pieces of the Chimera, and that alone thrills me to no end. Those two sources like rarely agree on things. They're in the vague realm of like contemporary with each other, but they are often vastly different because they're two archaic sources that would go on to influence like basically all the sources that we have, but they're they're often why things don't line up later on.

• 28:11Liv Albert?

  But here with the Chimera, oh, here they can both agree very plainly.

• 28:18Liv Albert?

  "The Chimera was an enormous creature that might, for just a brief moment, appear like a lion." Sure, first glance, yeah, that's a huge and scary lion. I mean, isn't that enough to get your blood moving? Enough to make a hero's defeat of it pretty damn impressive? I mean, Heracles got famous for killing just a lion. But then, oh, the Chimera is so much more than the Nemean lion. You think you're looking at a terrifying lion and then gods, like what's that thing on its tail? The lion's tail swishes into view and you think, fuck, is that a snake eating its tail maybe? Or just like a snake just hanging out with a lion like unlikely friends?

• 28:59Liv Albert?

  No, its tail is the snake and gods is that snake angry? Fuck, that's enough to really get the fear moving. Anyone would be peeing themselves seeing something like that. But then, it's not finished scaring the living daylights out of you. No, it's not. A furious, growling, echoing "bah" erupts from, that's right, the angry, fire-breathing goat's head that's protruding from the Chimera's back. And that's when most people would just drop dead in fear, right there. I mean, it's got three heads, they're all different, they're all scary,

• 29:43Liv Albert?

  they're all angry as hell, and fine, one is a goat, which you might think for just a split second might actually be reassuring. I mean, it's a goat, they're chill, they're harmless, they just eat grass. Not this one, it breathes fucking fire, goddammit.

• 30:01Liv Albert?

  And if you think I didn't go and find the description of the Chimera from Homer in four different translations, just for the sake of it, then you don't know me at all. Richard Lattimore translates my favorite monster as, quote, "A thing of immortal make, not human, lion-fronted and snake behind, a goat in the middle and snorting out the breath of the terrible flame of bright fire." Samuel Butler, a half a century earlier, speaks of my monstrous friend as, quote, "Savage monster, the Chimera, who was not a human being but a goddess, for she had the head of a lion

• 30:43Liv Albert?

  and the tail of a serpent, while her body was that of a goat, and she breathed forth flames of fire." And then around the same time, the poet Alexander Pope translated it in rhyming verse as, quote, "A mingled monster of no mortal kind. Behind, a dragon's fiery tail was spread, a goat's rough body bore a lion's head, her pitchy nostrils flaky flames expire, her gaping throat emits infernal fire." And finally, in the most recent translation that I've got, Caroline Alexander goes with

• 31:24Liv Albert?

  this beautiful translation of the beautiful beast, quote, "The invincible Chimera, a thing of divine origin, not of men, a lion in front, its hind part a serpent, and its middle a goat, breathing forth a fearsome, raging blaze of fire." (sigh) I... But for all that Hesiod and Homer agree on the most important aspects of the story, that the Chimera had a fire-breathing goat's head on her back, they do not agree on the second most important creature in Belarifon's story: Pegasus.

• 32:19Liv Albert?

  Today's episode is brought to you by Quince. You know the ones. I've been raving about them for ages. But now is the time of year when you might consider gifting Quince to the people in your life. There's nothing quite like having pieces in your closet that you love and you know you can count on for any occasion, except maybe giving someone else that same feeling. So this holiday season, think Quince. Quince, you know, makes elevated everyday essentials using premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and premium stretch denim, the kind of pieces you'd be just as happy gifting as you would be to unwrap. You all know I love all of the stuff I have from Quince. I'm actually traveling in Greece

• 33:02Liv Albert?

  right now and I have my go-to woven leather bag. I seriously use it everywhere. That's why it's with me here. It's beautiful and it's practical and it's from Quince. And I actually have a parcel to pick up when I get back home, which has some goodies in there. I got this pair of corduroy high-rise pants. I'm really excited to try those out as soon as I get home. And everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen, so you can give luxury quality pieces without the luxury price tag. So give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the

• 33:42Liv Albert?

  Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Let's Talk About Myths, baby. It's the best way to support the show.

• 34:04Speaker 04

  I've got big news. I switched to Verizon and got the new iPhone 18 Pro. Shh. I can keep my old phone. And I also get the latest iPhone every year. Shh, anything else? Verizon let me choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on them. Everybody, listen up. Shh. Switch to Verizon and get the new iPhone 18 Pro now. No trade in needed. And the latest iPhone every year with Simplicity Plan. Plus, choose Apple Watch Series 12 or iPad on us. Simplicity Plan with Simplicity Pro required. Plan and device payment purchase are separate agreements with separate terms. Service plan for watch or iPad required. Additional terms apply for all offers.

• 34:34Speaker 01

  75% of women who seek menopause care don't receive it. The lying awake at 3 a.m., wondering what's happening to your body, ends now. Midi is virtual care built for women in perimenopause and menopause, with clinicians who specialize in women's health. Plus, it's covered by most major insurances. Getting started is easy. You can book your first visit with a clinician right away. Midlife needs Midi. Visit joinmidi.com to book your first visit today. That's join m-i-d-i dot com. Insurance coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage.

• 35:21Liv Albert?

  I said this when I first told you all the story of Bellerophon, and I will say it again. If there are any two male characters from Greek myth who have been most wronged by modern reception, it is these two. Pegasus gets his due in reception. Sure, who doesn't love the tiny boy in Disney's Hercules? But where is poor Bellerophon? And why is Pegasus always shown being ridden by Perseus? Often while he goes off to kill Medusa, a physical impossibility. These two just never get their stories told right. But hey, that's why I'm here. Hesiod, you see, tells us that Bellerophon was riding Pegasus when he went to kill the chimera.

• 36:04Liv Albert?

  He even gives Pegasus credit in helping Bellerophon do it. But Homer makes no mention of everyone's favorite flying horse. Rude. Instead, we have to turn to the poet Pindar for the story of how Bellerophon came to ride Pegasus, that child of Poseidon and Medusa, born only when Medusa's head was severed from her body.

• 36:30Liv Albert?

  Pindar tells us that Bellerophon just kind of stumbled upon Pegasus one day? Well, there are other flying horses in Greek myth, because remember, and this is important, and it's a hill I will die on. Pegasus is his name? It does not refer to more than one flying horse. It is not a breed when it cannot have multiple Pegasus, despite what countless pop culture references of today might lead you to believe. It's one nice horse with wings, his name is Pegasus. So we're flashing back to before Bellerophon ever went to Lysia and met up with Iobates,

• 37:06Liv Albert?

  and he's wandering Corinth, he's at the spring of Pyrenene, and there, he sees this particularly impressive flying horse, the only flying horse who really even could be tamed, because the others are very explicitly just used to pull divine chariots, that's what makes Pegasus so special. Bellerophon was immediately obsessed with the idea of saddling up this beautiful boy that is Pegasus. But, well, Pegasus had other plans. He's not one to be tamed, he's the son of fucking Medusa, after all. And the bonus is, that does make him and Bellerophon half-brothers, fucking adorable.

• 37:48Liv Albert?

  So Bellerophon is lusting after Pegasus in a distinctly non-sexual way, but he can't figure out how to handle such an incredible creature. Enter Athena. Athena has a real thing for helping heroes, we all know that, so when she learns that Bellerophon is after Pegasus and having trouble with it, she's there to help. She brings Bellerophon a bridle, and apparently a golden headband, and tells him that he needs to offer Daddy Poseidon the sacrifice of a snow-white bull, and show him the bridle that she's just given him, and between those two offerings, Daddy Poseidon will help him tame Pegasus.

• 38:35Liv Albert?

  Bellerophon did as he was told, and lo and behold, it worked! He was able to get the bridle on Pegasus, and its magic acted immediately, calming the beautiful winged horse and allowing Bellerophon to mount him up and fly off into the sunset. Or rather, wherever it was that Bellerophon was headed at the time, because this would've happened all before he went to Lysia, like I said. And thus, with the origins of his friendship with Pegasus out of the way, we return to Bellerophon's new quest in the east: Defeat the Chimera, or die trying.

• 39:13Liv Albert?

  Now, exactly how Bellerophon went about killing the Chimera is... not well detailed. Frankly, it infuriates and saddens me how little we know about my goat-headed friend's actual behavior, let alone her death. Instead, we have lines from Homer that say, quote, "He killed the Chimera, obeying the portents of the immortals." Except Homer, dude, what were the portents? And like, that is literally all that Iliad has to say about it, not even a full sentence. Meanwhile, Hesiod isn't any better. He says of the Chimera, quote, "Her did Pegasus and noble Bellerophon slay." Like, helpful, dude. Another Hesiod fragment adds that Bellerophon and Pegasus caught her in some way?

• 39:58Liv Albert?

  Like, that's helpful, I guess, maybe? Pindar says simply that he felled her. Even worse. But fortunately, for once, we actually get to say that it's pseudo Apollodorus who gives us the most detailed account of Bellerophon's defeat of the Chimera. And, well, that really says more about the other sources than it does Apollodorus. It's here we learn that when Niobates asked Bellerophon to kill the Chimera, "to rid his lands of the creature's violence and bloodshed and fiery goat breath", Bellerophon mounted his boy Pegasus and off they flew in search of she "who breathes fire out of her goat head."

• 40:42Liv Albert?

  He and Pegasus flew off into Lysia until they spotted our girl, a Chimera. I can only imagine, she wasn't hard to spot, what with that fire and devastation that she'd leave in her wake? Not to mention, well, you know, an enormous lion with a snake tail and goat's head sprouting off its back? Just breathing fire like nobody's business would certainly catch one's eye, even from on high.

• 41:04Liv Albert?

  And when they found her, Bellerophon used Pegasus to his advantage. They flew over her, managing to avoid the fire, breathing forth from the goat with an angry bah.

• 41:16Liv Albert?

  I'm sorry. Using that strategy, it wasn't all that hard to finally do it, to defeat and kill my precious Chimera. Apollodorus says that Bellerophon, using his bow and arrows from the back of Pegasus, takes her out. Though we have few to no details on the how of it all, Bellerophon and Pegasus do indeed defeat the magnificent Chimera. I'm trying not to be too sad about that fact, I recognize she was a hint dangerous to the locals, whatever. Regardless, they do defeat her, they kill her. Whether he uses a bow and arrow, or a spear from above, it's done.

• 41:57Liv Albert?

  And that defeat might be the very missile which could define his name, like I said earlier. And yet, where Bellerophon's life takes him after the defeat of the Chimera, isn't clear at all. I don't know why I said "end yet", this whole thing isn't clear and yet I love it anyway. Many sources say that either before or after this defeat, he goes on to battle the Amazons, or slaughters them is the term that Homer uses, which you know, a little less ideal because we do love the Amazons. And then he battles a group called the Salimi, a group of Lycian people that I can't find much information on. But, at least as Homer saw it, when Bellerophon returned to Iobatii's, having defeated the

• 42:38Liv Albert?

  Chimera, just as he'd asked, Iobatii's tried once again to have Bellerophon handled? He called upon all the best warriors of his kingdom, and used them to lay a trap for Bellerophon, who, just, well, killed them all, and that's all we know. And again, we have Bellerophon being called "blameless", which I just find to be really specific and odd and like, kind of inaccurate, I mean, he's killing a lot of people.

• 43:10Liv Albert?

  When Bellerophon so easily defeats the men and once more manages to avoid the death that Iobates has intended, well, that seems to convince Iobates to give up his mission to kill Bellerophon, and not only that, but he sees Bellerophon as so fucking impressive, so fucking divine, that he gives him his own daughter to marry, and then hands over half of his kingdom. Totally normal behavior, for sure.

• 43:54Liv Albert?

  Even though Iobates' behavior after Bellerophon, you know, kills all his men, seems bizarre as all hell, it's important, because while we don't have this daughter's name, even though I think sometimes she's known as Stenobia instead of Antia, it doesn't matter, it's a different daughter of Iobates, that much we know, but we're told that this possibly unnamed woman that Bellerophon marries bears him three children: Isandros, Hippolochos, and Laudamia. And it's Laudamia who later catches the eye of none other than Zeus and becomes the mother of Sarpedon, one of the most famous warriors of the Trojan War. As for poor Bellerophon's fate, well, it's also uncertain, but never good. Homer says

• 44:37Liv Albert?

  that, for reasons he doesn't explain, Bellerophon is hated by all the immortals, and because of that, he's just forced to wander alone, quote, "eating his heart out, skulking aside from the trodden track of humanity."

• 44:55Liv Albert?

  Pindar, meanwhile, in one of his Olympian odes, says plainly that Bellerophon's fate is just best not even spoken of, and in one of his Ithmian odes, he says that Bellerophon, quote, "thought to reach the abodes of heaven and share the company of Zeus, sweets gained unrightly await an end most bitter."

• 45:20Liv Albert?

  And that is the most common fate of Bellerophon, even if it's always lacking in detail, that for whatever reason, he tried to fly Pegasus up to Olympus itself, to the realm of the gods, and that his hubris, in thinking himself worthy of such a thing, angered the gods, and he fell from Pegasus's back, plummeting to the earth and to his death. Pegasus, though, was not blamed by the gods and was given a spot on Olympus amongst Zeus's own horses. Bellerophon is just fascinating. He both fits the typical hero narratives and then like, doesn't at all.

• 46:02Liv Albert?

  That he angers the gods so completely, that his death is so tragic and violent, none of it really fits with the usual, nor is it at all like, explained in the sources that survive? Gods, I want to know what he could have done to anger the gods like that. Like, I don't think it's just the Sisyphus of it all. We have no explanations and yet he just has this horrible tragic end that we hear about alongside how impressive and wonderful his grandchildren were. Love it. Weird, love it. But, we're not going to end on Bellerophon's tragic fate. His tragic fall from Olympus, because, gods, did I find something so much more fun to finish off this episode with?

• 46:46Liv Albert?

  The work of a fine fellow by the name of Palephatus, who, we think was from around the 4th century BCE, as he was rumored to have known Aristotle. And well, Palephatus, you see, he wrote a work called "On Things Not to Be Believed", where he broke down certain myths and explained... I'm just going to read it to you. This translation is by John Brady Kiesling and is used via Topos Text. I've linked to it in the episode's description. They say that the winged horse Pegasus carried Bellerifontes. In my opinion, this horse could never be, not even if it had all the wings of the birds,

• 47:29Liv Albert?

  for if there had ever been such an animal, there would be one now. They say it killed the Chimera of Amisodorus. The Chimera was a lion in front, a serpent behind, a Chimera, a goat in the middle. Some think such a beast had three heads and one body. It is impossible, for a snake, a lion, and a goat to use the same food, and naïve to think something with a mortal nature could breathe out fire. For which of the heads would the body obey? The truth is this: Bellerifontes was a man, a fugitive of Corinthian race, a gentleman. Having built a long ship, he was plundering the coastal places.

• 48:14Liv Albert?

  The ship's name was Pegasus, as even now each ship has a name, and the name Pegasus seems to suit a ship better than a horse. King Amisodorus lived on the Chrysanthemus River on some high mountain, from which the Telmisus, wood substance, is deposited. To this mountain there are two means of access: the one in front, from the city of the Chrysanthians; the other behind, from Charyae. Elsewhere the cliffs are high, and in the middle there is a great opening in the earth from which fire emerges. The name of this mountain is Chimera. Then there was, as the locals say, a lion living by the front access and a serpent by the rear.

• 48:59Liv Albert?

  They used to injure the woodcutters and herders. Then Bellerifontes came and set fire to the mountain, and the Telmisus burned up and the beasts were destroyed. The locals used to say, "Bellerifontes came with the Pegasus and destroyed the Chimera of Amisodorus." From this occurrence, the myth was fabricated.

• 49:22Liv Albert?

  So yeah, that's an ancient source breaking down all the reasons why the myth of Bellerophon, Pegasus, and the Chimera isn't actually real and what it actually was, according to this guy. Which like, there is a lot of Chimera-related stuff in Turkey and like, these weird geological things that I actually talked about in an episode on Monsters with Jasmine Elmer. If you want to listen to it, fucking incredible. Something about reading that kind of thing, like, from the ancient world. He breaks it all down in such detail, it gives such wonderful, possible explanations for the story. Like, like, Pegasus sounds more like a ship if you ask me. Like, it's just the most joyful thing in the world. Obviously, I'm gonna add this guy to my go-to sourcing and share more of these denials because there are so many...

• 50:08Liv Albert?

  Chimera.

• 50:25Liv Albert?

  Oh, nerds, nerds, nerds. Um, thank you so much for listening. Did I start calling, like I said earlier, I dropped it in because I was too excited, but I only wrote it in the script here. I started calling Bellerophon Belly Boy aloud, um, just in my apartment, while talking, uh, to myself and writing the script. Did it give me everything my ADHD brain needed, though? Oh my god, all the dopamine I could positively ask for. I wrote this script in like, three hours, I recorded it with the happiness of a fucking child with candy, I don't even know. Anyway, gods, I hope you enjoy this one as, as much as I did, because it's so fun for me to revisit, um, and dig a little deeper, and also just

• 51:08Liv Albert?

  like, tell the story again and, and yell it all to you again. It's just fascinating to me that this myth is so incredibly underrepresented in the wider appreciation of Greek myth. Like, it is objectively fascinating. It is, it isn't more problematic than most. It's certainly on par with many of the heroes. Gods, this man is better than Theseus, you know? He was propaganda, so fine. But, and Pegasus? Like, he's the real guy who wrote Pegasus, the only guy who wrote Pegasus, the realist. And of course, the most important part, the star of the show, the fire-breathing goat head that is the Chimera. The world is seriously missing out when it comes to this story. Bellerophon deserves the world, the Chimera deserves the fucking universe.

• 51:47Liv Albert?

  Of course, a big reason for its lack of broader representation is that it doesn't really have one great go-to source for the story like so many others. Instead, like, much of it is told in the Iliad, but then not Pegasus. He's elsewhere, and he's the more famous one. So I think it all just ends up like, kind of lost in the noise. If only, though, if only we had Euripides' lost plays, because guess what? He had a play called Bellerophonies and another called Sthenobia.

• 52:14Liv Albert?

  That's the alternate name for the woman again at the beginning, my kingdom for a fucking time machine.

• 52:20Liv Albert?

  I'm losing it. This is so much fun. Um, as always, we're gonna end with a five-star review, and I realize I'm gonna bring it down a little bit with this one, but like, in a good way. This one is from Kelda252 in Great Britain and says, "You got me through it. New work stresses ADHD, hyperfocuses, burnout, and coming out. Your podcast has got me through it all and has just been the perfect affirmation for my interests and appreciating my quirks, along with the wild and fascinating world of Greek myths. This is so much more than a podcast, and I can't wait to see where you take it. P.S. Downloading this blasted app, recovering my Apple ID, forgetting all passwords ever, and giving it up to make a new one has taken my poor ADHD brain all evening, and I only pushed

• 53:02Liv Albert?

  through thinking of you and your determination to finish the Thesmophoraeus sigh and the Aeneid. Hats off to you, Liv." P.P.S. I'm truly, madly, deeply not a farmer.

• 53:16Liv Albert?

  That one made me so happy for so many reasons. One, I get it with the ADHD. That's the entire reason I, this episode, exists, because my ADHD hated me, and I just wanted one that I could like, love and do quickly and feel such incredible joy. And also, the fact that you did that much work, like, seriously, thank you. I really, truly appreciate it, and I'm really glad that you identified with the determination that I had to finish the Thesmophoraeus sigh. And also, yeah, I'm not a farmer. Not a farmer, but I do truly, madly, deeply love the chimera. And I hope you all are listening to this, and you listened

• 53:55Liv Albert?

  to last week's Q&A episode where I explained the, the true joy that is truly, madly, deeply? I'm gonna do it all over again, just in case. For the six years of this podcast, I have been peppering in the phrase "truly madly deeply" because I just find it silly and joyful. But for me, I'm quoting the 90s perfection that is Savage Garden, because I'm an old millennial. And then I found out last year through some listeners that so many of you younger people have been thinking this entire time that I've been quoting One Direction because I guess they have a song called that.

• 54:40Liv Albert?

  And honestly, nothing has made me happier than learning that, that like my stupid phrase that's literally from like a 90s rock band that very few people care about unless they're smart, has just like spread and, and I don't know, I like that it's got a Harry Styles reference in it too. Like, I like him. I've never paid attention to One Direction, I'm sorry. Um, anyway, for those of you who've been thinking that I have been quoting One Direction this entire time, one, thank you. You bring me so much happiness. Also, please, please go look up the Savage Garden song "Truly Madly Deeply" because it is so good. Let's talk about "Mitzvah Baby" is written and produced by me, Liv Albert,

• 55:22Liv Albert?

  who still loves doing this show so fucking much, if that's not obvious. Like, sometimes I just need one of these episodes to just like, it just like brings me all back, you know, like all the reasons why I do this. Michaela Smith is the Hermes to my Olympians. She's the best. She handles so many podcast-related things. God, it's just like, honestly, everything. Michaela, you're wonderful. The podcast is hosted and monetized by iHeartMedia. Help me continue bringing you the world of Greek mythology and the ancient Mediterranean by becoming a patron. Where you'll get bonus episodes and more, visit patreon.com/mitzvahbaby or click the link in this episode's description.

• 55:57Liv Albert?

  This was some of the most fun I've ever had recording and writing this podcast. Thank you all so much for listening. I fucking love it here. I am Liv and I love this shit, but mainly the fire-breathing goat head. Like, just imagine the baa.

• 56:26Speaker 05

  Welcome to 215 Maple Drive. We just put this property on the market. Love the crown molding. Oh, wait until you see the walk-in closets and the bathroom tile. Does it have Verizon FiOS? You know, 100% fiber internet. No FiOS, but it looks like it's got cable. Let's check out the kitchen. No FiOS? Yeah, no thank you. Don't you want to see the rest? Okay, bye-bye.

• 56:51Speaker 06

  Get Verizon FiOS because when you're moving, it's 100% or nothing.

• 56:56Speaker 02

  Hi, everyone, it's Katie Couric. And on my podcast, Next Question, we love stories about how women are taking control of their lives. They are increasingly leading financial decisions in their households. Yet, many say they don't feel fully prepared for the long-term financial choices ahead. Real confidence comes from knowing your financial future is protected, whatever happens. Pacific Life has helped generations protect what matters today and prepare for tomorrow with life insurance and lifetime income solutions. It's a promise Pacific Life has kept for nearly 160 years, so its customers can keep theirs. Ask a financial professional about how Pacific Life

• 57:41Speaker 02

  can help you create a more confident financial future. Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska, and in New York, Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona.

• 58:36Speaker 07

  Enemy of My Dreams by Jenny Williamson is a historical romance novel set in the time of the late Roman Empire, where Alaric, a brutal Gothic warlord, and Julia, a Roman princess with a love of good wine, team up to take down Rome.

• 58:54Speaker 08

  The much awaited sequel, Game of Thieves, comes out December 8. In this sequel, Julia and Alaric must overcome centuries of conflict to work together, or the turbulent riptides of rebellion and the demons of their past will tear them apart.

• 59:07Speaker 07

  And now, for a limited time, when you preorder Game of Thieves through Burning Pages Bookstore, you'll get a signed book plate and a free art print of one of Jenny's favorite spicy scenes from across the series.

• 59:21Speaker 08

  Get this amazing artwork only from Burning Pages at burningpagesnc.com/game-of-thieves. Don't wait. Order your copy from Burning Pages today at burningpagesnc.com/game-of-thieves.