Beethoven's Immortal Beloved, Part 2

Beethoven wrote an effusive, romantic letter, to a woman identified only as his "Immortal Beloved." Her (or his!) identity remains a matter of debate, but it turns out Beethoven had some other "beloveds" as well... Support Noble Blood: — Bonus episodes, stickers, and scripts on Patreon https://www.patreon.com/noblebloodtales — Order Dana's book, 'Anatomy: A Love Story https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250840578/anatomyalovestory' and its sequel 'Immortality: A Love Story https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250861016/immortalityalovestory' See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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• 0:00Dana Schwartz?

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series, on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:37Dana Schwartz?

  Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeart Radio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankey. Listener discretion advised.

• 0:48Dana Schwartz?

  I weep when I think that you will probably not receive the first news of me until Saturday. As much as you love me, I love you even more deeply, but... But never hide yourself from me. Good night, as when bathing, I must go to sleep. O God, so near, so far, is not our love a true heavenly edifice, but also firm, like the firmament? This is a widely accepted translation of "a piece" of the second part of Beethoven's famous "Immortal Beloved Letter." This portion in particular weaves together passionate language and specific references

• 1:31Dana Schwartz?

  in a way that provides context clues and, almost two centuries later, still sparks debates between musicologists, historians, and ardent Beethoven aficionados. In the spirit of classic sonata form, let's do a quick recap of what we covered in Part One.

• 1:52Dana Schwartz?

  The immortal beloved letter was found in Beethoven's Vienna estate after he died in 1827, and published in 1840 by his secretary, who likely misdated the letter and misidentified its romantic mark. Further research showed that Beethoven almost certainly wrote the letter in 1812, when he was in the Austrian resort town of Toplets. Before arriving there, he was in Prague and probably saw his immortal beloved for one, possibly steamy, night. He also must have had an inkling she was headed to Carlsbad, another spa town.

• 2:35Dana Schwartz?

  This all led several scholars, especially in the US, to believe that the immortal beloved was Antony Brentano. Her whereabouts lined up, but this claim raised questions about Beethoven's morals and patterns of both falling for unattainable women and ingratiating himself with prominent families. Those behavioral patterns all factor into the case for the other most widely believed immortal beloved candidate: Countess Josephine von Brunswick. Just about all biographers seem to agree that Beethoven's love for Josephine surpassed all others.

• 3:20Dana Schwartz?

  But does that mean beyond a doubt she was the muse of his soulful but perplexing letter? Yet again, the potential links between Beethoven's personal life and his work are too compelling to ignore. For example, what we're listening to now: a composition for solo piano titled "Andante Favori" was originally a movement for a full sonata, before Beethoven pulled it out to be a standalone piece. On its own, it was purportedly intended to be a declaration of love to Josephine, and

• 3:59Dana Schwartz?

  one that some musicologists claim directly connects to other works in Beethoven's repertoire, as well as to that all-important letter that stirred up the eternally beguiling story of his immortal beloved.

• 4:18Dana Schwartz?

  I'm Dana Schwartz and this is Noble Blood.

• 4:26Dana Schwartz?

  In 1799, the Brunswick sisters went on an exciting trip to Vienna, where Theresz and Josephine both took music lessons from Beethoven. The 28-year-old composer already had an illustrious reputation by then, and according to Theresz's memoirs, became so fond of her and her sister that he came every day to teach them for the rest of their stay. Later, he jointly dedicated the work "Six Variations on His Ich Denk Dain" for four hands to both of them. A highly motivating factor in Beethoven's wanting to teach the two Brunswick sisters, for free no less,

• 5:08Dana Schwartz?

  was that he supposedly became infatuated with the 20-year-old Josephine right away. It's largely accepted that Beethoven wrote and unofficially dedicated multiple works to Josephine. He likely would have officially dedicated many pieces in published form to her, if not for the sizable obstacles standing in the way of their possible romance. A monumental issue was social class. The Brunsvicks, who by European nobility standards were far from the most prominent or powerful, were still reportedly firmly against Josephine marrying a commoner,

• 5:53Dana Schwartz?

  even if that commoner was the Beethoven, an already renowned composer and sought-after teacher. So tragically for Beethoven, although Josephine was reportedly his type to a T, incredibly beautiful, engaging, musically talented, her mother set her up with someone in Vienna whom she saw as more suitably high-class, a man named Joseph Count Daim.

• 6:22Dana Schwartz?

  Despite Josephine being much younger than the Count, and perhaps being initially ordered into the marriage, by many accounts, the relationship turned into a relatively happy one. According to some sources, Beethoven was disheartened, but his relationship with Josephine did not end. He remained close with the Brunsvics and kept giving Josephine music lessons for years. Beethoven even established a close friendship with Count Dames, which makes some of Beethoven's true intentions and romantic feelings a little tricky to infer during this period.

• 7:05Dana Schwartz?

  Then, in 1804, Beethoven began making his affections very clear. While Josephine was pregnant with her fourth child, Count Dames died. In an apparent attempt to comfort the grief-stricken Josephine, Beethoven wrote her the song "And die Hoffnung," or "To Hope," set to text by C.A. Teige. In doing so, he allegedly caused a small kerfuffle when a visiting prince saw the unpublished version with Josephine's name on it. Beethoven then basically had to do damage control as word that he was planning to officially dedicate a piece

• 7:48Dana Schwartz?

  to a recently widowed countess might have caused a public scandal. Still, in private, Beethoven's love steadily crescendoed once the possibility of Josephine remarrying was on the table. A series of 14 love letters he wrote to her were found in the Brunsvik family's possession and published in 1957.

• 8:14Dana Schwartz?

  According to many modern historians and musicologists, these passionate messages were likely sent from 1804 up until 1809 or 1810. And Beethoven's phrasing in them is notable in relation to his immortal beloved letter. He addresses Josephine as "my angel" in both. And in his Love Letter series, he makes many references to remaining faithful to her, calling her his beloved, his only J, and his beloved J. Of course, a crucial factor in all of this, and one that has spawned immense debate,

• 8:56Dana Schwartz?

  is the level to which Josephine reciprocated Beethoven's feelings. Relatively little of her own writing seems to have survived, so it's tricky to gauge her emotional mindset at various points. Still, a few of Josephine's letters were ultimately unearthed. Here is a translated portion of one of her written replies to Beethoven's love letters. "My soul was already enthusiastic for you even before I knew you personally. This was increased through your affection. A deep feeling in my soul, incapable of expression, made me love you."

• 9:39Dana Schwartz?

  However, later in the same letter, she went on to say, "This preference that you granted me, the pleasure of your acquaintance, would have been the finest jewel of my life if you could have loved me less sensually." Similarly, in another letter, she stated, "You have long had my heart, dear Beethoven. If this assurance can give you joy, then receive it." But later clarified, "I love you inexpressibly as one gentle soul to another. Are you not capable of this covenant? I am not receptive to other forms of love for the present."

• 10:20Dana Schwartz?

  Some biographers have argued that while Josephine cherished Beethoven's friendship and musical genius, she very kindly, yet firmly, tried to shut down his amorous overtures. Others have claimed that Josephine's true romantic inclinations are hard to ascertain since she so often had to weigh them against her financial troubles, maternal responsibilities, and family's wishes. Researchers then dialed up even more of this analytical dissonance when they eventually compiled the letters, notes, and diary fragments of Josephine's sister, Therese, and published

• 11:05Dana Schwartz?

  them in 1938, long after her death. Some of these documents show that after the Immortal Beloved Letter was published and Giulietta Giacchiarri was proposed as the intended recipient, Therese doubted the mysterious letter was to Giulietta. She assumed it must have been to her sister, Josephine, although it's possible Therese's understanding of the letter's date may have still been off. In any case, here is a translation of one of Therese's entries. "Beethoven, it is like a dream that he was the friend, the confident of our house. A beautiful mind.

• 11:48Dana Schwartz?

  Why did not my sister, Josephine, as widow dame, take him as her husband? Josephine's soulmate, they were born for each other." The timing of the release of documents relating to the Immortal Beloved Letter, along with the absence of some of Josephine's personal writings, does beg some questions about the Brunswick family. Did some information take a while in getting out simply because descendants and researchers needed time to comb through a large or disorganized estate? Or were members of the Brunswick family at times motivated

• 12:30Dana Schwartz?

  to keep some materials out of public view? If so, was there a general fear of dirty laundry being aired? Or was there a more specific scandal to be carefully covered up? Because according to some scholars, there's a chance Josephine could have been in Prague on July 3rd, 1812. And as the more salacious version of the theory goes, a one-night tryst with Beethoven produced a love letter and a love child.

• 13:10Dana Schwartz?

  As a prelude to our celebrated composer's pivotal spa-filled summer, here's a bit more backstory, accompanied by Beethoven's piano trio in D major, Opus 70, number 1, nicknamed "The Ghost Trio." He composed it in 1808 and dedicated it to Countess Marie Erdury, who, fun fact, was another person briefly floated as the immortal beloved. While Beethoven was off courting other countesses after seemingly being rebuffed for years by Josephine, Josephine met Estonian Baron Kristoff von Stockelberg in 1808.

• 13:55Dana Schwartz?

  She got pregnant, and though her family was reportedly not thrilled about the match, she married Stockelberg in 1810 in a wedding with no guests. Sadly for Josephine, according to virtually all accounts, her second marriage was miserable. Stockelberg turned out to have extensive money troubles. Additionally, at that time in the Austrian Empire, aristocratic mothers were beholden to their husbands when it came to retaining custody and guardianship of their children. And Stockelberg allegedly often manipulated Josephine by threatening to take her children away from her, and often followed through.

• 14:41Dana Schwartz?

  Given those familial problems, Josephine's apparent whereabouts in 1812, and her seemingly ended relationship with Beethoven at the time, many scholars ruled her out as the "addressee" of the "immortal beloved" letter. For the record, though, several did contend that Josephine was the intended recipient at different points in the 20th century. To them, the fraught but enduring romantic connection was undeniable, even if some of the logistics were difficult to explain. And over time, further examinations of Beethoven's other love letters

• 15:23Dana Schwartz?

  and Thorez's diary, as well as additional Brunswick family documents that have surfaced in the last 20 years, appear to have bolstered the case for Josephine, or at least weakened some arguments against her as the "immortal beloved." For instance, in 2007, a Canadian musicologist found and published more documents from the Brunswick estate. Excerpts from Josephine's diary and notes left behind by her second husband, including a table of moral rules he left her to follow,

• 16:03Dana Schwartz?

  make their relationship seem very rocky during the summer of 1812. They also show that Stockelberg likely left Josephine on her own that June and July. Furthermore, in a diary entry in June of 1812, Josephine expressed an intention to visit Prague. This makes it highly possible that she was in the city on July 3, when Beethoven potentially had a fateful romantic rendezvous prior to writing his "immortal beloved" letter. Deeper analysis also revealed that Josephine possibly had plans to go to Carlsbad.

• 16:47Dana Schwartz?

  Currently, there's no proof she went, but her intention to go could have been enough for Beethoven to consider sending his letter to Kay. And her then not going to Carlsbad after all might have been a reason he never sent it. Here, things become more speculative in several historians' claims. Some argue that Beethoven and Josephine met in Prague, and, due to her unhappy and unfulfilling marriage, and perhaps even as the culmination of years of secretive longing, the two shared a night of passionate intimacy.

• 17:29Dana Schwartz?

  Backers of this theory often point out the suspicious timing of the birth of Josephine's daughter Minona nine months after her apparent separation from Stockelberg, as well as remarks people made about how Minona looked very different from her siblings. A child born out of wedlock would also help to explain some of the Brunswick's later inter-family conflicts and Beethoven's cryptic messages. All that said, critics of this idea tend to dismiss it as pure sensationalism. And similar to there being skepticism

• 18:13Dana Schwartz?

  about the other main candidate we covered, Antoni Brentano, there are vastly differing opinions on Josephine as the immortal beloved. Some scholars assert that Josephine clearly dashed Beethoven's romantic hopes and cut him off several years before 1812, while others maintain that Beethoven kept up his relationship, or some form of communication, with Josephine and her siblings. Some say Josephine couldn't have been the immortal beloved because of the conversation referenced in Fanny Giantassio's 1816 diary entry,

• 18:57Dana Schwartz?

  in which Beethoven said he'd gotten to know a woman five years before, and that it was the greatest happiness of his life. Other question that diary's possible bias, since Fanny herself was supposedly enamored with Beethoven, and her father was sussing out whether the composer might want to marry her. Of the many researchers who do accept the entry's account, some still interpret the "five years" comment Fanny made in different ways. Maybe it was a rough estimate by Fanny. Was it when Beethoven met a certain woman for the first time?

• 19:39Dana Schwartz?

  Or could it have been when he got to know someone more intimately? This brings us back to the subjectivity of such personal documents, and leads us to the case for one last immortal beloved candidate: Bettina von Arnim, formerly Brentano. Bettina has not gained quite the same level of scholarly support as Antony or Josephine, but she's recently garnered increased interest. She was the half-sister of Franz Brentano, who married Antony,

• 20:19Dana Schwartz?

  and many of the same parameters that contributed to the argument for Antony seemingly also applied to her. Bettina also met Beethoven in 1810, thus fulfilling the rough window of Fanny's diary entry. By 1812, she was married, hence the hypothetical need for secrecy. Bettina also intended to go to Carlsbad in the summer of 1812, then supposedly changed her plans and went to Topleet, where Beethoven wrote his letter, which would readily explain why he didn't need to send it.

• 21:00Dana Schwartz?

  Bettina was also an exceedingly accomplished singer, pianist, and composer, which possibly made her especially attractive to Beethoven. Again, his romantic feelings allegedly hinged on many traits. It is interesting, though, that some of his strongest infatuations did seem to involve many women, who were themselves terrific musicians.

• 21:27Dana Schwartz?

  One further link is that among Beethoven's surviving letters, there appear to be only two in which he used the informal German "du" form of "you" when writing to a woman. One was his immortal beloved letter. The other was a letter he sent to Bettina a year earlier. Still, like any other immortal beloved candidacy, Bettina has detractors and possible holes. Some musicologists and German-speaking biographers claim the way Beethoven used the second-person "du" form in his letter to Bettina seems more friendly than romantic,

• 22:11Dana Schwartz?

  and that his love letters to Josephine utilized phrases that also implied an informal and coy tone. Bettina's case also took hits over the years since she allegedly had a habit of embellishing stories, including ones involving Beethoven interacting with another famous friend, writer Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. Bettina also published letters that she initially claimed to have been written by Beethoven, that many historians subsequently discounted as forgeries, which diminished her overall credibility in certain scholarly circles.

• 22:54Dana Schwartz?

  The reality is, probably no piece of evidence will appear that irrevocably proves the identity of Beethoven's immortal beloved. And maybe that's part of the enduring fascination. The letter is a romantic riddle that keeps everyone, from professional musicologists to casual fans of classical music, guessing and debating.

• 23:20Dana Schwartz?

  And in many ways, the sheer divisiveness of various theories and staunch loyalty of certain camps speaks to the letter's incredible lasting impact. In addition to what it conveys to a possible recipient, and what it says about Beethoven, the letter also reveals a great deal about us, those who dig into its mystery. Perhaps it's easy to emotionally invest in certain speculations and candidates because it's easy to project personal feelings and experiences onto Beethoven, his fraught personal life, and the individual who earned his undying love, whoever they were.

• 24:05Dana Schwartz?

  For those who have suffered through heartfelt longing and heartbreak, the way in which Beethoven closes his Immortal Beloved letter is often as relatable as it is raw. Be calm: only through quiet contemplation of our existence can we reach our goal to live together. Be patient: love me, today, yesterday. What longing with tears for you, you, you, my love, my all. Farewell, oh, continue to love me, never misjudge the most faithful heart of your beloved. L.

• 24:45Dana Schwartz?

  Forever yours, forever mine, forever us. The original pages of the Immortal Beloved letter now reside in the Berlin State Library, and its contents continue to fuel research, articles, and ample scholarly squabbling. The letter even inspired the 1994 movie, Immortal Beloved, that erroneously depicted Beethoven's sister-in-law, Johannes von Beethoven, as the Addresse. Speaking of more improbable candidates, we are now listening to Beethoven's Piano

• 25:27Dana Schwartz?

  Sonata, Number 28, in A Major, Opus 101, which he composed in 1815 and 1816, and dedicated to Countess Dorothea Ertman, another pianist, around the time he was reportedly looking back on his time spent with his immortal beloved. Fascinatingly, in addition to leaving behind its own complex legacy, the immortal beloved letter might have inspired other similar love letters. Composer Richard Wagner, known to be very familiar and very enamored with Beethoven's life and work,

• 26:07Dana Schwartz?

  became infatuated with a married woman and wrote her an impassioned final letter that, according to some biographers, has a striking resemblance to Beethoven's famous enigmatic message. Wagner apparently wrote his letter on the same date that Beethoven began drafting his, July 6. It contains similar phrases and it even seems to clearly reference specific passages Beethoven's secretary wrote about Beethoven's love life. Then, get this, Wagner's tragic love letter seemingly inspired Austrian composer Albenberg, a big Wagner fan,

• 26:51Dana Schwartz?

  to write a similar sounding letter to the unattainable love of his life. It's worth noting that it can be difficult to delineate between composers' personal feelings, their public personas, and some of the creative trappings and tropes of the burgeoning Romantic movement in Western Europe. Specifically, the notion of pining away for an unattainable love became a fashionable theme and an undercurrent of many artists' work across multiple mediums. Relatedly, there has been substantial debate over historians and critics' shifting views

• 27:33Dana Schwartz?

  on the relationship between a composer's music and their biography. Scholarly opinions vary massively on how readily we should accept musical works as outpourings of a composer's inner self. That said, this is a podcast. It would seem a missed opportunity to feature some of classical music's most timeless pieces without highlighting at least a few more possible romantic connections using Beethoven's own auditory love language.

• 28:08Dana Schwartz?

  Searching for secret musically encoded messages can certainly go too far, but there is also a humorous irony in the most narrow quests to parse every last phrase of Beethoven's letter, when he often called out his own limitations with language, claiming, "Music is more at my command than words." So let's close by letting Beethoven's compositions do most of the talking. Many musicologists have pointed out links between specific Beethoven pieces and the Immortal Beloved Letter.

• 28:48Dana Schwartz?

  The music theory can get granular, and in some cases even obsessive. But three related works that frequently come up as having demonstrably similar themes are Andante Favore, written for Josephine in 1803 and 1804, which we heard in Part 1,

• 29:22Dana Schwartz?

  Song Number Six of the "To the Distant Beloved" Song Cycle, Opus 98, composed 1816 and set to poetry by Aloir Gichlais. According to some musicologists, this was Beethoven calling out to the same beloved whom he told in his Immortal Beloved Letter, "I have resolved to stray about in the distance." And it contains a very similar, specific musical phrase to Andante Favore.

• 29:57Dana Schwartz?

  And finally, the Third Movement, Andante Molto Cantibile ed Espressivo, of Piano Sonata Number 30, Opus 109.

• 30:20Dana Schwartz?

  If you remember, this was the sonata we previously heard that was dedicated to Antony's daughter, Maximilian. But was Beethoven also using a theme originally? And maybe still, meant for Josephine? Let's hear each excerpt one more time, and then you can judge. Were these merely cases of a master leaning on a favorite motif? An emotional composer leaning into the artistic ideals of his era? A cheeky interloper hoping his beloved would hear his musical messaging? A heartbroken romantic lamenting a love that could never be?

• 31:05Dana Schwartz?

  And/or are these just some pieces of immortally moving music?

• 31:30Dana Schwartz?

  That's part two of the perpetually gripping story of Beethoven's immortal beloved. But stick around after a brief sponsor break to learn a little bit more about Beethoven's other famous unsent letter.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  Hey, I'm Niall Rogers, producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of the group Sheik. A great song has a way of defining a moment. A moment of joy, heartbreak, or anything in between.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  This fall, I'll be driving across the country, dropping in on some of the coolest, most fascinating artists working today. We'll go deep into their lives and careers and hear what it was like before the moment that made them. From hitmakers like Miguel...

• 32:23Speaker 02

  That last year, finishing that record was the hardest experience of my life. Regardless of how everyone else buys into this, I believe in this and I'm gonna push.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  To rising stars like Alex Warren.

• 32:38Speaker 03

  You know, a song is a story and the verse is setting the scene. And for me at least, it's allowing me to be personal and vulnerable with the audience. Whether it's about my wife and I'm being vulnerable about her, or it's about, you know, my parents and I'm being vulnerable to them. And it's almost like a cinematic piece in a way where each song tells that beautiful story.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  It's gonna be one hell of a trip. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Nile Rodgers, producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of the group Chic. A great song has a way of defining a moment. A moment of joy, heartbreak, or anything in between.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  This fall, I'll be driving across the country, dropping in on some of the coolest, most fascinating artists working today. We'll go deep into their lives and careers and hear what it was like before the moment that made them. From hitmakers like Miguel...

• 33:43Speaker 02

  That last year, finishing that record was the hardest experience of my life. Regardless of how everyone else buys into this, I believe in this and I'm gonna push.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  To rising stars like Alex Warren.

• 33:58Speaker 03

  You know, a song is a story and the verse is setting the scene. And for me at least, it's allowing me to be personal and vulnerable with the audience. Whether it's about my wife and I'm being vulnerable about her, or it's about, you know, my parents and I'm being vulnerable to them. And it's almost like a cinematic piece in a way where each song tells that beautiful story.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  It's gonna be one hell of a trip. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 34:33Dana Schwartz?

  When the immortal beloved letter was found at Beethoven's estate, so was one other crucial unsent document. The Heiligenstadt Testament was a message Beethoven drafted to his brothers in 1802 about his struggles with his hearing loss, depression, and related grappling over whether to commit suicide or to continue to live on for the sake of producing more music. It is tough to fully fathom the pain and isolation Beethoven endured during vast periods of his life. And his plight brings up many complicated questions

• 35:16Dana Schwartz?

  regarding how his suffering inhibited or fueled his genius. One thing is for sure, though. Considering his transcendent creative output for the last 25 years of his life, the music-loving world can be endlessly thankful that Beethoven continually chose his beloved art of composing.

• 35:44Dana Schwartz?

  This episode was written by Paul Jaffe. One final note for this episode. Our producers for the show found most of the Beethoven music we got to listen to for this special musical two-parter from MuseOpen.org, a free website and nonprofit that provides access to classical music recordings and sheet music and other educational material. If you're interested in hearing more Beethoven, absolutely go check the site out.

• 36:18Dana Schwartz?

  Noble Blood is a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manke. Noble Blood is hosted by me, Dana Schwartz, with additional writing and research by Hannah Johnston, Hannah Zwick, Courtney Sender, Amy Height, and Julia Milani. The show is edited and produced by Jesse Funk with supervising producer Reema Ilkayali and executive producers Aaron Manke, Trevor Young, and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

• 37:02Speaker 04

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• 38:32Dana Schwartz?

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.