Adrien Brody

Adrien Brody is an Academy Award-winning actor. Known for his nuanced performances across a wide range of films, such as The Grand Budapest Hotel, Detachment, and multiple collaborations with film director Wes Anderson, he became the youngest recipient of the Academy Award for Best Actor for his role in The Pianist by age 29. In addition to his 2025 Academy Award nomination for Best Actor for his performance as László Tóth in Brady Corbet’s The Brutalist, he has also earned the Golden Globe and Critics Choice Award for Best Actor, solidifying his reputation as a powerhouse in film. ------ Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast and our team: Athletic Nicotine https://www. AthleticNicotine.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Squarespace https://Squarespace.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Vivo Barefoot http://Vivobarefoot.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA25' ------ LMNT Electrolytes https://DrinkLMNT.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Sign up to receive Tetragrammaton Transmissions https://www.tetragrammaton.com/join-newsletter

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Rick Rubin?

  Tetragrammaton.

• 0:24Speaker 01

  You have to come from a place of non-judgment.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  You have to separate your belief system. You have to find validity to another person's choices and actions. And that's kind of what I refer to as gaining empathy and understanding through this work and a lifetime of doing it, is that, you know, someone may do something quite despicable and yet they're not a despicable person. And it's a long, complex life and it's not all-encompassing.

• 1:04Rick Rubin?

  Yeah, all humans are flawed.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  That's right. That's right.

• 1:10Rick Rubin?

  When you leave the set, do you take the character with you or can you leave the work at the set?

• 1:18Speaker 01

  I don't know if I can leave it. I'm always me at the end of the day, but I definitely will have moments that I'm altered and influenced from the day or what's to come for my character. And I don't see how I could not do that and I don't see it as too problematic. I haven't, you know,

• 1:52Speaker 01

  anyone who's ever been in my life meaningfully knows me well enough and knows when I need a little space to do my work and respects the process. And sometimes I need space and sometimes I need to be immersed in that and lost in that.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  To preserve it and to protect it. And then, other times, I don't need that. And I can access it quite available. My girlfriend discovered that on this film, on The Brutalist, when I went into it, I told her, this is gonna be a very hard one to endure with me. Just because of the pressures and the nature of all the hardships that the character is, the traumas that he's trying to overcome and that linger. We didn't really discuss it when I made the film, but afterwards, she was like, you really weren't tough to deal with.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  And you weren't stuck in it, in a way, afterwards. And it was a really remarkable observation because for most of my career, I've felt somehow an obligation to carry the suffering beyond. And I think there's a degree of suffering that's necessary for the work, but not beyond. And not to hold on to out of fear that you're not gonna honor that suffering in the work. And it's taken a lot of work and a lot of living to know that it's accessible enough.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  And then you don't have to torture yourself to be tortured in certain moments. And that's a huge discovery. It's quite liberating because it is an exhausting process, especially if you're adding more psychological or emotional pressure on your personal life in order to carry a character through an extended period of time.

• 4:13Rick Rubin?

  Do you feel like you could play any character? Or there are characters that are right for you?

• 4:18Speaker 01

  I think I can play much more than other people think I can play. I don't know if I would want to play any and every character. But the joy and the purpose of being an actor frankly is to be a chameleon and to be malleable and shift into something different. And it's beautiful. It's beautiful to experience. And it's okay to fail, as hard as or be willing to fail, as hard as it is to say that out loud. But you have to be willing to do something that's not easy

• 5:02Speaker 01

  and not doesn't seem intuitive or make sense to you in order for that something to be profound and for you to grow. If you play it safe, you could have a wonderful, successful career and maybe even be content.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  But it's so much more interesting to not just repeat and do something that feels like it's not gonna inspire you.

• 5:36Rick Rubin?

  You've got to work with some of the greatest directors alive. And how different is the process with different directors?

• 5:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's very different. I've been very, very privileged to work with some of the best filmmakers, who are real, you know, auteurs and artists. And everyone is very unique. And everyone brings different qualities to it. And it's like any collaborations, like any partnership. It's like any relationship. And the key is to be around people that bring something good out of you in life, I'm sure you'd agree, and to hold those people close.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Actually often think about you because we don't get to spend as much time as I'd like. And I, I think of you and I think of even moments early on in, in my life where I didn't even know you and admired you. And when I did get to meet you, you were very generous of spirit. I remember sitting in your car, probably, I don't know, close to 20 years ago, maybe, playing beats on a tape or something in your,

• 6:53Speaker 01

  in your tape deck and sat there and listened thoughtfully and Quincy Jones gave me that courtesy. And, and these are moments that you don't have to hear some kid playing you his beat tape and give them the feedback. And you did, and you were, you were thoughtful and kind and,

• 7:15Speaker 01

  and just those things don't go unnoticed, especially with the world being as it is. And how precarious it all is when you encounter people that you consider friends, that you don't see enough. It, it's important to let them know and to cherish those friendships and to try and make time for them. So I, I mean that and I, I thank you for, for all of our encounters because I always find you uplifting.

• 7:45Rick Rubin?

  Same.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you. And so you have the similar characteristics, like I'd feel safe in a room sharing creative ideas and, and interpreting something together. And you will have a different perspective than I will and it will likely give me insight. And I can go with that and I'm good with that as a, as a person, as a, as a collaborator. I'm very good with that. And so I look for what those things are in people that I work with. How can they pull me out of my own limitations and?

• 8:31Speaker 01

  And sometimes they do that forcefully and sometimes they do that through more peaceful methods. But I'm, I'm used to all of it. I'm not, I'm not surprised by any of it and I'm not too put off by it, you know? It can't all be smooth. It's gotta, it's gotta, but we gotta be in it together.

• 8:55Rick Rubin?

  Yeah. Give me the range of a direction. What's something that one director would say and then something another director would say that couldn't be more different?

• 9:09Speaker 01

  So, I mean, Ken Loach wouldn't give me the end of a scene or the second half of a scene if I wasn't the, my character wasn't the catalyst. So I didn't know what would actually transpire. And so I'd have actual dialogue and to memorize and a scene and a basic understanding of what's to transpire. But then another actor would be given his dialogue or his notes from, from Ken of where the scene goes. And then I would have to be in character and focused enough to respond as the character would and react.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  And he uses this technique primarily because he deals with non-actors. And we were doing a film about the janitors movement, the justice for janitors movement in Los Angeles. And I spent time working with union organizers and spending time with people in their homes and, and you know, this whole underbelly of the city that isn't acknowledged for keeping it afloat. Like you look at all the offices and everything with all these janitors that had no Job security and a lot of hardship and complexity in their lives. But I loved, I loved the process.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  And it was very interesting working with non-actors and watching their reactions were quite natural the first go around. And then, now we do a second take, but we all knew what was going to happen. And people started acting, they started doing what they think you wanted them to show you, rather than to experience what is happening. And as a professional actor, you learn not to show it and try and re-experience it. And that's where it's great to have someone who wants to try different things and actors who try different things, because then you're always on your toes and you're always responding. So that would be one quite extreme way of doing it.

• 11:20Speaker 01

  Some directors would show you sometimes, they would do something, not necessarily give you a line reading of even that's not the end of the world if it's good, if it resonates. And then Wes Anderson, for instance, will use animatics, which are these moving storyboards. And he will act out the characters at pace, at a style, and with a kind of frenetic energy that he is looking for. And that's also quite interesting. And I know that's quite clear where my interpretations might veer from that and not to really

• 12:05Speaker 01

  go there, because you have to honor his specificity and the nature of his storytelling, both the way he shoots and, and the way everything must work in an almost choreographed manner. And then it's your responsibility to bring truth and life to those moments. So there are myriad ways, you know? And sometimes a director will give you something beautiful and let you just do it and not weigh in. And they might, they might ask you to do it three, four times and not say anything. And then might offer a little note, or might never offer a note.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  They just gave you space and adjusted camera to you. You know, blocked it with you with camera and found where those moments are or, you know, but there's no one way to do it. And the joy is working with people that you like and trust their interpretation, whether it's different from your own. You say, I can do that. It's not what I was thinking I would do, but I can make that feel truthful to me. It's when someone's way off in another field, then you're, you're struggling.

• 13:26Rick Rubin?

  Typically, if there's gonna be another take, would it be the director asking for another take or you asking for another take?

• 13:34Speaker 01

  Not necessarily. That's a good one. I learned one from Peter Jackson where we'd shoot it and then he'd get it. And he'd be satisfied with it and he'd go, let's do one for luck. And I will always ask for one for luck.

• 13:50Rick Rubin?

  Nice.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  If it's not being egregious, if we're up against the clock and we're losing the light and there's another actor that hasn't gotten his shot. And I feel like we got it, I won't ask to do it again. But if we, if we have room to do one more and I say, do we have room for one? I'd, I'd love to just do one for luck. And then you can let go of the pressure because you know, in your heart, they got something safe. You know that your director's happy to move on. And sometimes something magic can happen.

• 14:21Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  And then sometimes it doesn't and you say, all right, well, we tried that, let's move on.

• 14:24Rick Rubin?

  Right? In general, how different would you say your performance would be from take to take?

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Oh vastly, vastly on most things. I'm, I'm, I would say my, my choices, not an interpretation of the character or a connectedness. Sometimes I'll be deeply immersed and sometimes it'll be harder to get there. But it's not like, it's not like it's gonna be a handful of takes that aren't right. They're just gonna be different choices and some, at some point, one feels really right. And you hope the director selects those and the editor selects those in the cut.

• 15:13Rick Rubin?

  How much of a performance is the words that you're saying? And how much of it is something else?

• 15:21Speaker 01

  The feeling and the connection is first. Sometimes not having to say words is freeing. And if the words are really beautiful, sometimes they will spur more emotion and feeling. And that's why dialect work is so important. The key is to not have to think about your lines or how you sound or any of the technical aspects of expressing the feeling and context of what needs to be conveyed.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  And then, then you're free to live in that space and modulate how those words need to be expressed.

• 16:16Rick Rubin?

  Do you ever ad lib?

• 16:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. If, if a director's open to me improvising, I'm, I'm often ad libbing. There's a lot of curse words and fun subtle things in Hungarian that I learned as a boy that have been added to The Brutalist, for instance, and, you know, I think it brings textures and feelings and I like them.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  As bridges, I like them as intros and filling the space sometimes. And I like what it does to my fellow actor because then they're not waiting for something very specific that we've kind of hammered home. And so, and I like receiving it from another actor. If someone has a comment that they think of that's quite fitting and interesting as the character,

• 17:21Speaker 01

  it gives me something to respond to and react to and come back differently, you know? Many ways in which you can have that same conversation, interpret what someone said or meant, and they interpret it differently. You say, you know, I didn't say it that way. And or you say, yeah, that's what I, that's how I meant it. But that's all based on them. If someone just says it the same way or doesn't integrate some little spark of something else, then it's predictable.

• 17:54Rick Rubin?

  Have you ever done theater?

• 17:56Speaker 01

  So I started doing theater. So when I was 12, I was doing off-Broadway play. I was taking the train from junior high school in Queens after school and going to the city and trying not to get jumped on St. Mark's. And it was rough. And I did another piece at BAM with Elizabeth Suado's very early on. And then I went to performing arts and studied and did a lot of scene study, but I didn't work professionally in theater since those days. And I just did last year a play on the West End in London at the Dunbar, and we did eight shows a week.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  And I played an inmate. It's based on a true story. It's called The Fear of 13. And I played an inmate who served 22 years on death row for a crime he didn't commit.

• 18:54Rick Rubin?

  How was the experience of the theater schedule for you?

• 18:59Speaker 01

  It's pretty intense, pretty immersive and a lot of pressure. I knew it would be. It's been intimidating and kind of what's kept me from doing it for a long time. It's also a vastly different way of working than I'm accustomed to. I've grown accustomed to in film. I also like a somewhat controlled environment when I'm working. It helps me. I think my senses become enhanced when I'm working. And so I don't like a lot of noise or people moving or coughing

• 19:41Speaker 01

  or eating chips or whatever it is around me, of course. And I find it harder to deliver the work on the level I immerse myself on that level. And you don't have that luxury. It's very unpredictable. And you're surrounded by people and the Dunbar is quite an intimate space. So they built the stage abutting the audience. There were people like right in front of me and the other actors. And I spoke to, you know, 50 people a night in their eyes. And on some nights, it was quite wonderful that you really had this communion with them.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  You felt them in a moment with you. And that fuels you. And then some nights, people who are in the light and available to you are less accessible to you because they either don't respond to it or are unwilling to channel that level of intensity, which is fine. But I always found the nights that...

• 20:53Speaker 01

  I connected and was able to connect with members of the audience. I found it such a rewarding thing.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  I go home with that and they go home with that. And theater is very interesting because it's, you gotta leave it all on there and then it's gone.

• 21:12Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Whoever was there that night and if there is a mishap, you keep going and it's quite exciting. Yeah, I had to start engaging in the promotions of the film while I was on the stage. And so that was, that was pretty hard. I got to come back for the Governors Awards, for instance, just for the intro and leave before the dinner. Got on a plane, flew straight to London and straight to the theater and then did a show and then did seven more shows that week.

• 21:42Rick Rubin?

  Wow.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  But it's been very exciting, you know? It's been a, this, this past window has been quite good creatively. And,

• 21:56Speaker 01

  and doing theater after all these years has helped me, I think, with my work and given me, and it's made me feel stronger.

• 22:04Rick Rubin?

  Yeah. Do you picture doing it again?

• 22:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I have to find the right window, you know? I, I haven't made a film since The Brutalist. And I'm a film actor and I want to do more film work that speaks to me. And, but I, I did, I love the, I loved my cast. I loved collaborating with people every day and they were very supportive of me, you know, coming in. They were, they're all theater actors and, and that's their world.

• 22:39Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  And, you know, they were, they were generous. I appreciated that.

• 22:44Rick Rubin?

  Nice.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:46Rick Rubin?

  We'll start talking about The Brutalist. How did you get involved first?

• 22:51Speaker 01

  Well, they sent the script. I read the script. It was beautiful. You know, I read it and I thought, what an amazing opportunity this would be for any actor to live with a character for decades and all the complexities of his life and all of the complexities of his personality, which really, really spoke to me, to play a flawed protagonist, you know. And then, it didn't come to me. If you want to know the whole detail, I met with Brady and we had a wonderful meeting and spoke a lot about, you know, his storytelling approach and why I felt I was right for it.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  But they ended up going in a different direction with numerous other casting choices. And then, COVID disrupted everyone's life and it went away for a while and financing fell through and then they brought it back together and a new iteration came back to me with it, which is remarkable.

• 23:52Rick Rubin?

  Interesting. Obviously meant to be.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  Yep, feels that way.

• 23:56Rick Rubin?

  Yeah, we have no control over these things.

• 23:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, we don't, no. I'm more willing to embrace that these days because I realize I can't control it anyway.

• 24:05Rick Rubin?

  Yeah, we have no control. Typically, when you read a script, is it the character that gets you or is it the whole story? What happens when you read a script and you're like, ah, this is good?

• 24:18Speaker 01

  I need several things. The criteria is, of course, do I relate to this character or is it a journey I want to go on creatively and will it provide growth and will it offer me, you know, an opportunity to do something, explore something different or that speaks to me in some way at that point in my life? And that's crucial. And then, the other considerations are who I'm gonna be with for that period of time. It's a director's medium. You have to trust your filmmaker. You have to believe in that you will both be aligned in that storytelling vision and

• 25:00Speaker 01

  so that you can relinquish some of your controlling nature, my own, I should say, and then, but know that you have someone in your corner that is...

• 25:14Speaker 01

  Similarly aligned in how they want to tell this journey and how, you know, what their expectations are of you. I think it's very important that you're aligned. And then, you know, there are other factors, but the the main thing is, does the work speak to you and who you're going to be with. And this was a wonderful ensemble, amazing, amazing actors from everyone, from, you know, day players who came, worked so hard and, and just amazing group. Guy, Guy Pearce is such a generous giving actor and Felicity Jones is so amazing and

• 25:55Speaker 01

  Alessandra Novola and Isaac de Bancolé. Just the relationships in the film, the characters' relationships really feel baked in and lived in and truthful. And that's a testament to their ability to, to, to give a lot and beautiful writing, of course.

• 26:17Rick Rubin?

  How much does your performance change based on the person you're playing against?

• 26:22Speaker 01

  I think it's definitely enhanced or diminished by the collaborative nature or lack thereof. I mean, you can fight through things, of course, and that's where technique comes in and experience, but the joy of interacting with another actor who's listening and modulating their responses accordingly and you have someone to connect to their soul. It's such a beautiful moment.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  And that surely elevates your own work and your ability to feel centered and connected.

• 27:11Rick Rubin?

  Does it ever get so strong in that moment to where you don't feel like you're acting, you forget you're in a movie and you're in this moment and the moment it's happening?

• 27:24Speaker 01

  To some degree, yes, I would say to some degree. I, I don't know if I've ever fully lost a sense of where I was ever. I've had profound emotional cathartic

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Transformative experiences as another person, as a character, if that makes sense.

• 27:50Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  You know, the key is to lose your self-awareness and self-consciousness. Children make remarkable actors because they're not self-conscious. They haven't been kind of bombarded by rules and society and parents and everyone telling them, "Don't show that." It just comes out. And you see when the kid is alive and lost in thought, or mad, or finding something. You know, any human emotion that comes from a child is quite pure and truthful. And it takes work, it takes research and a lot of discipline to do that work, at least for me. But that is the joy of the work.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  And, you know, I was always, I never really liked homework. It's funny, I picked a job that requires a great deal of homework. But that's part of the reason I have to really want to be on that mission and want to delve deeper into that understanding that would be required for the character. And, you know, my perspective and my understanding of life and my own sense of gratitude each day has come primarily from an understanding of the human condition and the suffering that exists in others. And my own good fortune of not experiencing suffering on that level.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  And I learned that and earned that at a young age. And it really gave me a wonderful sense of perspective and immense gratitude that really has, I would say, shaped my years as a young adult. And of course, you're not always as present as you'd like to be, but I always do feel...

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Very conscious of my own good fortune and very sensitive and empathetic to others and can connect to their struggle as I've struggled through many things in life and even things that are not personal to me I can relate to because of the work that I've done and which I think encourages that.

• 30:16Rick Rubin?

  Tell me a little bit about the research process. For the brutalist, you read the script, you like it. What happens next?

• 30:24Speaker 01

  I'm a fan of architecture and appreciate the artistry and I'm a fan of brutalist work. Not all of it, but I love how bold and in-your-face it is and how forward-thinking it was at that time. And some of those structures still today look quite futuristic even. And I love the use of raw materials and clear, open spaces. Because I paint and like music and like cars and bikes and toys, I always envision big, open, clear-span structures, not enclosed by little rooms and walls.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  And so that style of architecture lends itself to those cavernous rooms. And so I studied a bit about it. I mean, Laszlo Toth, the character I play, is a fictional character, but he's an amalgamation of several quite prolific architects of that era: Mies van der Rohe, Marcel Breuer, Louis Kahn. Those men were fortunate enough to flee or had families had left Europe prior to World War II or the Nazi occupation. And so they...

• 31:49Speaker 01

  Were able to carry on with their creative work and their lives. And when Brady and Mona, Mona Fastfold, who's his wife and co-writer of the film, were researching architects of the Bauhaus era, they were trying to model a character or write a story about one who had survived and immigrated to America, and there were no survivors. And so he was a fictional character based on these, out of necessity. And so I did some research there, and I think what was most important to me was the Hungarian dialect, which is quite a specific sound.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  It's a very unique language and dialect. It's familiar to me from my grandparents and my mother. But my grandparents and my mother fled Hungary in 1956 during the revolution. So their hardships and their tenacity and their resilience and sacrifice were all very intimate to me. And so I really felt I wanted to hearken back to my memories of my grandparents and to have a sound reminiscent of my grandfather. There's a kind of formality of speech of a man in the 50s.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  And the way he expressed himself was very unique. And he passed when I was quite young, but he was so memorable to me. He was super charismatic and quite powerful. And so there were qualities that I wanted to integrate of that. So I worked with a dialect coach that the film provided, who's this woman, Tanara Marshall, and she was wonderful.

• 33:38Rick Rubin?

  What is that process to learn a dialect?

• 33:41Speaker 01

  It's interesting. There are lots of techniques, and there are things that we hear or we perceive to hear that we miss, that someone else who's, as you know very well, it doesn't even have to be about a specific thing, but it's a nuance that's overlooked. And you say, I notice this, and then that gives information for the...

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Person who's trying to convey it to see if they can integrate a new little detail to that. And so I found one person in particular who was a Holocaust survivor, who spoke a lot about his experiences, recounted his experiences in Hungary of that time as a boy. And his father and how all the details of the factories were shut down and people were hidden and all these things which only helped, but the way he spoke was very much the way my grandfather sounded and it was a key resource for me. And so I would

• 34:51Speaker 01

  listen to it for hours and hours and hours on end and I would try to replicate what he's saying. I almost memorized many of the things by just hearing them repeatedly. And then I would work on my own dialect and then I would read other things as I would. And then, you know, the beauty was we shot in Budapest. And even though the film takes place in Doylestown in Pennsylvania, it was very helpful for me to be there in Hungary, hearing a dialect of the crew all had, you know, when they spoke English, had things for me to learn from. And I had to

• 35:35Speaker 01

  represent because I had, you know, I wasn't in another country. And so it gave me a bit of an extra push to be aligned with even beyond the dialect. You pick up qualities that are very useful and and you just keep working and working and working away at it. And because especially in independent films, you don't have a great deal of Leeway, you don't have, you know, we shot on film. We shot on Vista Vision, which we should talk about at some point, which is amazing. But you have limited time. We shot on a 33 day window, which is nothing. Uh, we made the movie for less than $10 million, which is nothing for, for a film of this breadth

• 36:20Speaker 01

  and, and epic nature and visual storytelling. So that meant that every second counted. So I was home studying all the time and working and, but it's very exciting because, you know, I'm, I'm steeped in that. I, most of the films I've done in my, since I've been a boy, have been independent films. And the lack of resources often spurs great creative moments and gems. And the pressure, as unpleasant as it is at times, helps you cook.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  And I'm used to cooking under pressure and it's good.

• 37:06Rick Rubin?

  You say in general, pressure helps you or undermines you?

• 37:12Speaker 01

  I'm good with pressure. I tend to lean into things that feel a little bit more higher stakes. It's fight or flight, you know? And, and you don't have to fight and you don't have to flee, but you have to find a way to solve it and get through it and not, not run away. It's getting used to using that pit in your stomach for good and to wake up the brain and the emotional state and then apply it very forcefully. And that, and that's something I've, I've grown accustomed to and I'm not intimidated by.

• 37:54Rick Rubin?

  Yeah. How different is it playing a fictional character versus playing a real human?

• 38:03Speaker 01

  You have additional responsibility, of course, portraying a person that you're representing. You have a responsibility anyway to make a fictional character real. So it's not that you, you don't have your.

• 38:22Speaker 01

  You're not freed of your responsibilities, but you're not encumbered by certain things that are quite known. I've played numerous characters who are real people and obviously portraying Pat Riley, for instance, and we all know and have a very distinct memory of how he was at that era. And it was very important for me. And the filmmakers started earlier than my understanding of Pat Riley and most people's. And I was very eager to get to the space where I could represent the Pat Riley I felt I knew and wanted to represent, which came after this period

• 39:05Speaker 01

  where they wanted to show a bit of him, of his uncertainty in his life and very different stylistically and personality-wise. And it's a beautiful arc in the long run, but I kept wanting to almost defend the image that I felt ought to be represented in my portrayal, right? So there is a different sense of responsibility. The pianist, of course. I portrayed Vladislav Spielman, that the movie was based on his memoirs. And that's also quite significant, you know? But if you represent a horrible time in history

• 39:50Speaker 01

  and you represent someone who's endured that or witnessed that, you still have a responsibility to all of those that have experienced and been connected to some kind of horrific loss that's unfathomable. And so I don't know if I would have done it, my work differently. I apply the same level of focus. It's just, I think you can use your imagination in ways that doesn't feel like it has to adhere to certain qualities, if that makes sense.

• 40:27Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 40:29Rick Rubin?

  Typically, when you're shooting, how aware are you of the frame that you're in? Or the space that you're in? And do you pay attention to things like that? Or do you just act?

• 40:40Speaker 01

  No, I'm very, no. No, not anymore. I think there was a time probably that I just let it rip. And hoped and didn't know. Didn't know enough about what lens they were on.

• 40:52Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Didn't know that I should know.

• 40:54Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  And that's not to be self-aware or overly controlling. It's to give you insight into the cinematic language and the tools that are being used in those moments to help tell that story. And that shouldn't necessarily have to come from your director to say, "We're on an 80mm lens and we're very close to you, so you need to bring it way down." You know, anyway, I mean, you're there for the blocking. You know, you don't have to necessarily ask. But sometimes I'll say, "What's the frame? What's bottom of frame? What's my, what lens are you on?"

• 41:40Speaker 01

  I don't like looking at dailies or playback, if I can help it, just to not somehow potentially get self-conscious. I know what I feel I am conveying. I don't want to see me interpreting that. I don't want to see the physical. I want to just be it and feel it, if that makes sense. But I do like to see the frame and where I fit in the frame and how, what space I have to work in. You know, and yeah, there are no close-ups in the theater. You gotta just stand, you know. It's funny, you gotta really

• 42:23Speaker 01

  figure out how to make those moments a moment. And, you know, and a moment for someone up in the back. And that's part of the beauty of film. I like, I know a lot. I mean, I grew up, my mother's Sylvia Plahi. I grew up the son of an amazing photographer. So film and...

• 42:44Speaker 01

  Perspective and her point of view and the artistry and the way images can be caught in a frame or partially caught in a frame and how that further depicts the figures in the frame and tells the story is something that's very personal and familiar to me. And so I love the work of a cinematographer and how it's and the operator, not just a cinematographer who's objective is also lighting and figuring out the look and feel and consistency of a storytelling, but you're a Steadicam operator who you're doing a dance with that day and who's got to be with you and you've got to be with them. And you know when certain

• 43:28Speaker 01

  things are being revealed, when you turn into it, or he's encountering you over a shoulder, or what you need to do to further tell the story over your shoulder where it's really not about you, but you have to be the guide in carrying that attention and still feel connected and interesting and alive in the frame without overshadowing that. So it's very important that an actor is in communication with all those departments.

• 44:00Rick Rubin?

  Do you ever pick up either a mannerism or a quirk that you see out in the world that you might

• 44:10Speaker 01

  Every day.

• 44:10Rick Rubin?

  bring into a character?

• 44:12Speaker 01

  Every day.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  That was the first thing I noticed that could potentially be compromised with success as an actor. And I wouldn't trade it back to living in a sea of anonymity out in L.A. struggling, showing up at auditions and them not knowing even my name when I raised my hand to say, yes, that's me. But the freedom of anonymity is that people aren't watching you, watching them. And it's another thing that I don't know if I've, it's been enhanced from my mother and traveling with my mom as she photographs. Grew up in, her photographing New York and.

• 45:01Speaker 01

  Or just being curious and finding these nuances and specificity interesting, but it's memorable to me. And I often attributed my four trains that I had to take each way going to Performing Arts from Queens, because there was no direct way to get to Woodhaven, to Lincoln Center, as my formal acting training, because the sea of humanity in New York that I was in the midst of gave me every character and interesting expression and interaction and

• 45:41Speaker 01

  from every socioeconomic background and you name it. New York is just so full of life and uniqueness. And it was always available to me. And it was interesting during COVID, even though we all interacted less, wearing a mask and finding myself, I'd still take a train and do things. I had more freedom to not maybe tuck down and just keep it simple, stay on my phone. And it's a wonderful thing. It's a wonderful thing to observe and incorporate these things that are truthful and interesting

• 46:24Speaker 01

  and then infuse various ones that you've stored along the way in a role. When I did The Pianist, I portrayed a man who has incredible manual dexterity and finesse and artistry with his fingers as a concert pianist. And then he endures all these horrors and is starved and lives through brutal winters with no heat. And so that would restrict and...

• 46:54Speaker 01

  Inhibit all of your dexterity and mobility. And I grew up in New York with many cold winters and unfortunately too many homeless people. And I was always very observant of their hardships. And a common trait were very gnarled, swollen, damaged fingers and hands. Because they're exposed to the elements all the time and they've had a hard life. And I, at the end of the film, I tried to make my hands much more claw-like and rigid

• 47:38Speaker 01

  and uncooperative. So, everything from holding a jar of pickles and trying to open it with kind of disconnected to something that was the nimbleness of a surgeon was important for me. And that I learned many, many years ago and absorbed it and it came alive in me. And then the moment where he's asked to prove that he's a pianist in front of the German officer and he sits at a grand piano and hasn't had the opportunity to do so. And then he's in this moment and he doesn't quite know if he can do it.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  And his fingers have to kind of come alive slowly. And that's where it was wonderful to have learned to play those portions of Chopin's work and to be able to tell that story in the way I'm actually playing it, not just have someone double my hands and hope that they're gonna... It's like a stuntman doing your thing. It's like, he'll do the fall, great, but he's doing the fall as a stuntman and not necessarily as that character would. Sometimes you have to try and get in there and if you don't fully break yourself, try and do the fall at least initially so that the qualities of that person come through for the big stunt.

• 49:07Rick Rubin?

  Tell me about body language in general. Like, do you alter your posture for a role?

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I, a lot of things become altered and a lot of things follow a state of being. Some things will be deliberate choices, but it'll be informed by how you feel the character feels and how you are feeling as the character, so.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  Sometimes I'll do things to make certain movements a bit more restrictive. Actually restrict those motions or put something sharp in my shoe, for instance, or something where it will alter your gait and it'll remind you of that. And sometimes I joke about it. I, I, I like to have a rock in my shoe, even if there's nothing. No need to limp because it's good kind of layer in there. Because we all have, we all have a proverbial rock in our shoe, right? And some people may not, but I think most of us do.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  And I have a lot, I don't need one, but an extra one is a reminder of certain things. And I think they help.

• 50:25Rick Rubin?

  Yeah. How important is the costume?

• 50:28Speaker 01

  Very important, I think. Sometimes

• 50:33Speaker 01

  even being uncomfortable in what you're wearing is good for the characters. If you want your character to be comfortable in what he's wearing, you should try and work together with the costume designer to feel comfortable. I mean, I've, I've played a bullfighter where, you know, I grew up wearing size thirty-eight Jabo's and I was thirty-two, thirty-one, whatever, you know.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  Thirty, you know, ridiculous, you know, hip hop pants down to my ankles, but um I was then wearing this kind of very tight fuchsia pants where you, you literally have to force your your package over and it was, bullfighters would wear it for a matter of like two hours and we'd be shooting twelve hour days in it and it could barely even cope. So I wasn't really comfortable in that, I remember, but it was, I had to be, I had to. But the character was I think.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  Uncomfortable with the degree of his fame and pressure of, you know, his responsibility being one of the greatest bullfighters. And so you can find ways of making it feel fitting.

• 51:54Rick Rubin?

  Tell me how you learned your craft.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  Well, my mother had an assignment to photograph the American Academy of Dramatic Arts when I was 11 or something. And she had the intuition to know that I was already an actor,

• 52:16Speaker 01

  which I understand now. I didn't quite get it, but I understand. And I think, you know, I always think, well, all kids are imaginative. And I was different as a kid. I was much more outgoing. I was fearless and curious and extremely imaginative. And I would tend to see things and express them and kind of replay them as I saw them. So if I encountered some experience, I'd come home and I'd be like, yo, you don't know what I saw this happen. And I'd kind of reenact those things. And so she saw that. And when she saw these kids in this class that she was photographing, she's like, they're doing what you do every day, which is amazing.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  And I don't know if I would have encountered this. And the beauty of it was that it started prior to adolescence, prior to when you start shifting into those teenage years and becoming more self-aware, I think, or receptive to the awareness of your peers, their subjective ideas about who you are. And I think you have a lot of freedom prior to that. You're not aware. You've kind of mastered childhood. And so you're free. And that's a great age to encourage your kids to.

• 53:43Speaker 01

  Play to be anything they want to be. But anything performative is quite exciting for them to gain a sense of freedom and understanding and control of that early. And then I spent many years studying and I auditioned for. My mom had one friend who was an actress and she got me an audition for her agency and they had a youth department and they agreed to represent me and I booked some work here and there. I booked the lead role of a public television movie where I played an orphan in the eighteen hundreds, shipped from New York out to the Midwest to a farm family.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  And I got to understand about the hardships of these kids and.

• 54:30Rick Rubin?

  How old were you then?

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Thirteen, maybe just maybe just turned fourteen. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was epic. Went to Nebraska, filmed. My dad came with me, gave me an opportunity, encouraged me. I remember my dad came to the audition for that and my character had to steal a cigar off a conductor. So my dad went to the to the candy store and bought me a blunt. And he gave it to me to take in. And I remember there were other kids there. My dad like waited for me in the car and I often use this anecdote when asked about if someone has given me any great advice over the years. And I said, my dad, this, one of my first auditions.

• 55:16Speaker 01

  My dad said, just go in there like you already have the job. You don't have to like worry about thinking and asking for it. Just go in there like you already have and you just show them how you're gonna do it. And it really helped. And so I went in there and just remember there were other kids there and they're sitting with their moms or their parents and I was there on my own. They called my name and I rocked up into this room and I I did this scene where I steal the cigar off the conductor and I pull out my cigar and put it in my mouth or whatever and and they were like, who's this? Who's this kid? I was like, when are we, when are we? What's next? You know? You need anything else?

• 56:01Speaker 01

  Thank you, it was really nice, you know, whatever. My state of mind was so not what most kids stepping in that room was. And I really owe it to my dad. To have the understanding of what I needed and to give me the space to feel confident to do it.

• 56:19Rick Rubin?

  Tell me more about your dad.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  So my dad, Elliot Brody, Mr. Brody. My dad taught public school in New York. Taught middle school in Queens and the Bronx. And he is a great man and he was a really great teacher. His students loved him. He taught social studies and English as a second language and he was very good, very patient to his students and to me. And he's quite thoughtful and a very considerate person. He's, both my parents are quite empathetic people. He's an amazing painter.

• 57:06Speaker 01

  He can paint old masters works on oil, self-taught in a way that I could never dream of painting. And yeah, he's incredibly intelligent and he's been a real wonderful father and a great husband to my mom. Like, he's been very supportive of her creative life and enabling her to live her life as an artist. And he supported our family. I'm very appreciative of him.

• 57:43Rick Rubin?

  Did you go to performing arts school?

• 57:46Speaker 01

  I went to public school and I went to, I got accepted into LaGuardia, which is performing arts, which was fame.

• 57:54Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  That, you know, numerous really interesting people attended. Timothy Chalamet went there years later. Marlon Wayans and I used to slapbox in the hallways of the drama department. I just, he had a very long reach in high school. I remember sparring with him. It was fun, but you know, it was great. It was a wonderful thing for me and I had, it saved me. I would have had to go to Franklin K. Lane, which is a big zone school in Brooklyn. And my parents' home was on the border of Queens and Brooklyn. So I would have had to go into Brooklyn to go to school. And it just would have been a very different trajectory. I wouldn't have had.

• 58:37Speaker 01

  An opportunity to have encouragement in the in the arts in the way that I I did going to an art school. And performing arts is a multidisciplinary school, there's an art department, fine art department, a music department, a dance department, and a and drama department.

• 58:53Rick Rubin?

  How old were you when you got into magic?

• 58:55Speaker 01

  Very young. I so my mom worked for the Village Voice and she had a coworker there named Howard Smith, who was a wonderful writer and really cool dude. He had a corner office with all these gizmos and gadgets and magic tricks and the fiber optic lights.

• 59:17Rick Rubin?

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  Remember those? They were amazing. So those little strands and those purple glowing lights through the fiber optic tips. I remember seeing that like six years old or seven and just being like, that was the coolest. So I'd always go hang out in his office and he loved magic and he would show me a trick like a coin that would he could bite off a piece of or it'd make something disappear. And then he'd teach me how to do it and then I'd go torment every one of her coworkers all day and perfect my routine. And and I, at the time, didn't know, but I look back at it, I go, well, this was really my introduction to acting.

• 59:55Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  It's a monologue. You get given a bit of patter and then you improvise and then you come up with a whole storyline and say, I found this coin and I think it must be magic. I started rubbing it. It had a little piece of dirt on it and as I rubbed it, look, this piece disappeared. And I said, oh, no. And I figured if I rubbed it some more, maybe it would come back and then this disappeared and then but then if I rubbed it on this leg, two would come, whatever, you'd make up something and that worked with the boxed trick.

• 1:00:23Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:24Speaker 01

  And it was so fun and I remember the joy in that and that lasted for, you know, a number of years. I ended up.

• 1:00:36Speaker 01

  For a little while, doing professionally as the amazing Adrian, I would do a children's party as a, as a child. Basically do a younger kid's birthday party for.

• 1:00:46Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  Not very much. I think I was doing it for fifty bucks. I, I did the whole party, you know? But, um, I loved it. I loved it and I, I always look back at it as something. That was my gateway drug into acting.

• 1:01:02Rick Rubin?

  Yeah. And then you got to play Houdini.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  I did, yeah. Who was Hungarian, by the way?

• 1:01:07Rick Rubin?

  Hmm.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  And we shot that also in Budapest.

• 1:01:10Rick Rubin?

  Hmm.

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  But yeah. Houdini was Eric Weiss. And he was, he was a somewhat failed magician. And he worked in these kind of sideshow, kind of carnival-esque sideshow gigs. And took a job as a locksmith to pay the bills. And he invented the term even, escape artist. He created a whole new form of magic entertainment, of the art of the escape. And he was so brilliant. I mean, he, he also was one of the best self-marketers.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  Like, he would figure out how to, you know, he'd go to a police chief in a town and say, I bet you I can get out of your jail. And the guy would be like, I bet you can. And he goes, well, I'll make a little wager with you. And then he'd have the press come, invite the press. And, and the officers would stand there and their arms crossed. And then he'd escape. And he became, I think, other than like Chaplin, one of the greatest vaudeville performers of that era. And, and as a kid, I loved Houdini. I loved, I loved magicians and, and he was one of the greats, yeah.

• 1:02:37Rick Rubin?

  How much would you say you know about your character? When you show up to shoot the first day, do you know everything? Or do more things come during the making of the movie?

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  I know a lot, but every day offers new opportunities to discover things about yourself and about the character, right? You think you know who you are and what you're about today. And tomorrow, you will encounter something that may prove you right or may add a new sense of understanding. And then the day after that, you're different.

• 1:03:18Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  And so that's the beauty of being an actor. Because the more you live and even the more days you show up on set, the more you learn and the more you can apply those things to the work at hand.

• 1:03:32Rick Rubin?

  Do you ever have a revelation about a character you played after it's already finished? New insights into who they are?

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's pretty common. I think you go, that's how I should have played that. That's what I should... Yeah, I'll go home and I'll be like, "Fuck, why didn't I think of that? Why didn't I... Fuck. Damn it." That's why you have to be really focused and disciplined.

• 1:03:55Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:55Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:03:56Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:56Speaker 01

  And sometimes it'll happen. You walk out of the set and you go, "Shh, that is it. That was it." And sometimes you don't feel as connected as you really are. And you'll see it and you go, "I didn't feel it quite like that." And that works in a way that I didn't sense it working.

• 1:04:25Rick Rubin?

  When you read a script and you imagine what the film looks like and then you see the finished film, how different are those two things?

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  It varies, it can be unrecognizable, you know.

• 1:04:40Speaker 01

  I worked six months on The Thin Red Line and ended up in the movie for a few minutes. And I played the author of the novel, I played James Jones's persona. I mean, the movie was based on a character and a character's point of view, and the point of view was removed. So it can be vastly different. And sometimes you'll work with a director who wants to experiment a lot and ask you to do various things and give me one like this and give me one a little more funny or more overtly reactive. And you'll be like, I don't know, okay, I'll try it. And they might use most of those things.

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  Those are not choices you really have made.

• 1:05:28Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  You've succumbed

• 1:05:31Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  to honor being collaborative, but then ultimately, a whole different idea is shaped in an edit. And that's very challenging, especially as you grow as an actor and have a point of view about the work that you're contributing. And it's hard. It's why I find painting

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  very helpful for me on my creative journey because it gives me a sense of autonomy at times when I need that.

• 1:06:10Rick Rubin?

  How long have you been painting?

• 1:06:12Speaker 01

  I was drawing and painting since I was a child. My mom would have materials around the house and she would have test prints. You know, I grew up with film hanging everywhere and she'd have test prints laid out on record racks on the floor, all over the place. And then ones that she didn't need that were kind of crossed over and weren't printed right. I would draw on them and do things. And so I already started, you know, having room to be quite creative and entertain myself with those tools. And then...

• 1:06:48Speaker 01

  Actually, when I went to performing arts, I also applied to the fine art department and didn't get accepted. So my portfolio wasn't accepted. So I kind of put down painting for many years. And fortunately, didn't get accepted, I think, because then I'd just be a struggling painter, most likely.

• 1:07:06Rick Rubin?

  When did you pick it up again?

• 1:07:09Speaker 01

  I got more serious, I think, in my late 30s, when I started finding I needed a bit more creative fulfillment at times, or I was waiting for a role to speak to me. And, you know, if you're an actor, you have to work to get the fulfillment. I'm most alive when I'm in the mix and involved and doing the work that I have dedicated my life towards. But sometimes, you're not going to find the right thing, and you can't just work for the sake of working, unfortunately.

• 1:07:49Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  And so, painting has offered me space to do something quite creative and immersive in those windows, and not necessarily say yes to certain things, just to feel that I'm creative.

• 1:08:03Rick Rubin?

  Would you say that the characters you've played have changed you in any way?

• 1:08:08Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 1:08:09Rick Rubin?

  How?

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  I've lived many lives. I've died many times. I've had to put myself in other people's shoes a lot. And the interactions beyond the pain and the pleasure and the joys of those moments. You're in other countries with a whole bunch of interesting, creative people that you get to know quite well.

• 1:08:43Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:44Speaker 01

  You know, I lived in India with Owen and Wes. I didn't even know Owen then. And I'm living in a house with Owen and Wes and Jason, and bought a Royal Enfield motorcycle and riding around through Jodhpur every day and hanging out with these incredibly interesting and funny and creative people. And all of us in...

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  A life changing environment, you know, and being in India with so much to be excited about and to experience. And then years later, working with Wes, for instance, sitting at a dinner table and there'll be Scarlett Johansson, you know, sharing some wonderful anecdote and Francis Coppola showing up. And you name it, like all these interesting people around you through the work. And all of those stories and experiences that you share and receive are shaping you, each thing you encounter. And so I always joke, it beats working for a living.

• 1:09:55Rick Rubin?

  Have you had to learn any cool skills for parts that you've played?

• 1:10:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I've, yeah, had to fought Jackie Chan in the Gobi Desert. I had to do martial arts choreography. I studied martial arts as a kid. My, my dad, by the way, used to take me to, he also is a film lover. And he would take me to Chinatown and go to movie theaters on Canal Street in the seventies and eighties. And we'd sit in movie theaters watching amazing old Run, Run Shaw martial arts films. And I was steeped in that because he loved those movies. And martial arts films and Scorsese movies shaped my, my creative. You know, and if you look at Clean, like this movie that I co-wrote and brought to life,

• 1:10:46Speaker 01

  that I brought my director, co-writer on board to help me bring to fruition. It really is quite like that. It's quite a kind of seventies revenge movie. And it's got hatchet fighting sequences and, and we used my Buick Grand National in the movie. And I ended up scoring the whole movie. You should hear it. I did all the original music. I produced a rapper from up in Utica now, who I encountered on that movie. And I put him on and he's really talented and he's in the movie rapping and. I did all this contemporary music for it. So I'd never really done anything cohesive with my music. And that spoke to it.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  So all of the things that have fed me over the years in my environment, growing up in New York City, kind of fed this creative work in a way that was quite, quite special.

• 1:11:42Rick Rubin?

  Describe the New York that you grew up in. What was New York like then?

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  I mean, I'm nostalgic. It was, it was great. It was great. We had no cell phones and distractions. I didn't even have a pager that worked until late, you know? But I had like, you know, I had freedom. I hung out with all these troublemaker kids on my block and in the neighborhood. And we'd ride around on bikes and I lived right near Forest Park. So we'd roll through the park and I lived off Jamaica Avenue and under the elevated train track and we'd take the train and buy Lucy's at the bodega and eat five penny candy, five cent candy and get into trouble.

• 1:12:29Speaker 01

  And, and then that was all as a child. And then, you know, then, you know, I was breakdancing and I had a tail and was getting jumped from my tail and holding it down and grew up with the birth of hip hop. And that fed a lot. And I grew up in Queens when Queens wasn't hot, when KRS was, you know, putting the Bronx on the map. And, and then I grew up through the times when Queens was hot with Nas and Mob Deep and 50 and everyone else that followed and had amazing careers.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  And that's all shaped me in a lot of ways. And I grew up the son of an artist photographer. So seeing the world on assignments and she had press plates. So I would be everywhere, you know? It was amazing. It was an amazing childhood. It wasn't easy. It was rough. New York was dangerous, you know? It was a, a very different time in Manhattan, but.

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  It was, it had a rawness, it had a, a poetry to it.

• 1:13:52Rick Rubin?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:52Speaker 01

  And artists could afford to live there. I was surrounded by artists, or artistic people.

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  Writers, poets, musicians, theater actors, photographers, war photographers. And hoodlums, lots of hoodlums, a lot of little crews and all that stuff, which I'm sure, you know, it's still there, but it was, it felt different then. It was different, you know? It was different on those trains then, also being little and, you know, having to learn through experience.

• 1:14:35Rick Rubin?

  Did you ever get into graffiti?

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I used to write. I used to, I mean, I had a lot of, I went to an art school, so I had a lot of boys that were super talented, you know? And a lot of my art today is deeply inspired by graffiti and I have my, you know, graffiti culture all woven throughout it and, you know, taking the trains to school, I observed the interesting qualities of people and I read the walls. I spent every day with headphones on, reading, you know, vibing and reading who was getting up and who had style and who was prolific.

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  And it's all part of growing up in a, in a city. One of my youngest, closest friends when I was young, we used to get in a lot of trouble. He used to live under the train tracks. His sister was a big writer and she was in a crew and they used to go to the train yards and bomb whole train cars then. I'm talking, I was like. Must have been ten, but like I was going to. Yeah, it was fun. Those were fun days. I used to collect cans with my friend, this kid Chucky, and we used to go collect cans to get some extra money and go buy, buy stuff at the store

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  and take, jump the train and go right around and just get, nope, nope, you know, my parents let me live. And you could live quite freely then. It was wild. It was great. I loved that city. It shaped me.

• 1:16:17Rick Rubin?

  Would you ever consider directing?

• 1:16:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely. I have been yearning to direct. I've directed commercials primarily to explore different formats and materials and it's kind of like free film school.

• 1:16:36Rick Rubin?

  Practice.

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  Practice, yeah. Working with a crew, finding DPs that you like and experiment with things. I shot with, on my first commercial that I never, didn't even have a reel to show. I pitched them this idea and I flew myself to Detroit. I'd met a head of marketing at Chrysler and we met at a film festival and we're talking about film and he had asked me if I had any interest in directing. I said, yeah, and I'm a car nut. I grew up drag racing in Queens too. I neglected to even bring up that whole massive chapter in my life. Like I, I built so many muscle cars. I had no money. And so I, all the kids

• 1:17:18Speaker 01

  on the block who I related to had muscle cars or knew about mechanical work. And so they would teach me and we'd all have our, our own muscle cars and we'd go out on Friday night and the Saturday night and we'd go to them like. Factory blocks in Brooklyn and I'd race these Jamaican dudes with their Toyota Starlets. And I'd pull up in my Mazda RX-7. I had seven different RX-7s at one point. There was a rotary engines and I'd whip it down the block sideways. And Mach 1 Mustangs that I built up and a 70 Challenger. And so I had shared some of this with this guy. And he was like, you should do a, a commercial with us.

• 1:18:03Speaker 01

  And he sent me some idea. I didn't think it was good for them and I didn't take the job. And I said, I don't think this is good for you for these reasons. And he appreciated that. And then he gave me another one, sent me another one. I said, I have an idea for this one. I came and I, I sat in a boardroom. I think I got up at crack of dawn, flew to Detroit, pitched them. And they, they gave me the gig and it was a super, it was a Golden Globe commercial. Or they played at the Golden Globes and they, they loved it. It was quite good. You could look it up. It's called, uh, Arrive in Style. If you look up Chrysler Arrive in Style. And I did the VO for them. I directed it. It's largely black and white. I did it with my friend Gabriel, who was a wonderful editor on Brothers Bloom.

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  I met him working with Ryan Johnson and Gabriel unfortunately passed away since then. But we made a really beautiful piece. And, uh, yeah. And so, long story short, yeah, I'm, I'm waiting for the right moment to do it and take the time to do it, you know, because I think it's very important that I have a lot to apply in my life's experiences and my collaborations with people, including my own mother's artistic vision cinematically to give. And I definitely know how to communicate with actors. So it's only a matter of time that it'll, it'll happen. Yeah.

• 1:19:24Rick Rubin?

  Great. Is there a, a type of character that you've always wanted to play, but never have gotten to do yet?

• 1:19:31Speaker 01

  I'd love to do a really great, like meaningful love story.

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  Like, just something where there's just such a deep connection with someone that's intimate and true to life and full of complexity of love and relationships, I think.

• 1:19:56Rick Rubin?

  What's the biggest physical transformation you've ever gone through for a part?

• 1:20:01Speaker 01

  I've had two big shifts physically for roles. Obviously, The Pianist, I had to depict a man who experienced starvation. And so I went down to 129 pounds.

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  I was hardly even drinking water. Towards the first days of production, we shot in reverse chronology. So I was in very good shape, too. I'd just done another film before that called Love the Hard Way, which is another favorite film of mine, it's more obscure. But I was fit. I was thin, but I was muscular. And so it was an interesting challenge.

• 1:20:40Rick Rubin?

  How long did it take to lose the weight?

• 1:20:43Speaker 01

  I lost about 30 something pounds, 30 something pounds in six weeks.

• 1:20:48Rick Rubin?

  And just not eating, or was it more than that?

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  It was mostly not eating. I was eating, but very, very sparse, specific things. I wasn't particularly healthy, and I wasn't taking supplements, and I wasn't guided through it, and I didn't know kind of what I was doing. And then, and then I had to gain the weight back rapidly. So it was kind of forced feeding after, which was terrible for my body. I felt sick and I felt I gained weight in a way that I didn't. Like, I had a bit of a belly. And I was like, oh, my God, I ruined my metabolism. And I managed to kind of have it catch up again, which is good. And then, you know, when I did Predators, I essentially

• 1:21:36Speaker 01

  Play the Arnold Schwarzenegger character in the film. I play this mercenary character in this reboot of the franchise. And I thought it would be fun to do a shift. And I thought it would be fun for the guys who are fans of that movie and that genre. And it's kind of unexpected to see me in that role. And so I got jacked for that. It was really great.

• 1:22:02Rick Rubin?

  How long did that take?

• 1:22:04Speaker 01

  I put on a lot of muscle mass. I think I had less than 6% body fat. And I was

• 1:22:08Rick Rubin?

  Wow.

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  I was 75. I put on 20 something pounds of muscle. It was serious. I was the best shape of my life. And then I went to India and shot one day on a film and got really ill and lost 15 pounds in a week.

• 1:22:27Rick Rubin?

  Wow.

• 1:22:28Speaker 01

  Something like that, literally, almost that. It eviscerated me. And all again, my, all that lean muscle mass was gone.

• 1:22:35Rick Rubin?

  Wild. How has your relationship to the craft changed over the course of your life?

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  You know, we are an instrument.

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  And you become more proficient at using your instrument for the work that you've applied a lifetime towards. And so my relationship to life has shifted too. And I've become more proficient at being less reactive and more attuned and open.

• 1:23:14Speaker 01

  And that can be linked to a spiritual awakening and one that is found through work and sacrifice and understanding the valleys as well as the peaks. And applying them in your observations of yourself and others.

• 1:23:41Rick Rubin?

  How do you think rhythm influences your performance?

• 1:23:48Rick Rubin?

  Is it a factor?

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, yeah.

• 1:23:54Speaker 01

  It influences how we are day to day. And sometimes you're more in touch with a rhythm and some days you're not, right? And each character you play has a different rhythm from your own. Like on The Pianist, I shut down all modern influences, all of it. Not just my love for hip hop, but any modern music. I just lived in another era. And I think that was helpful and gave me insight into an understanding of classical music and also the playing of that music and how each time it is played, how differently emotionally

• 1:24:38Speaker 01

  that journey is and how it conveys things. Like when I was doing the play, I would have to amp up and we'd do eight shows a week. So two days were with a matinee. And, you know, that second performance, you really have to be salut, you know? And it's a heart wrenching thing to kind of conjure up all that every day. And I would

• 1:25:05Speaker 01

  put on a bunch of trap music and Pasi, one of the actors, would come through to the little dressing room, which was like a little cinder block cell. And we'd just do pushups and incline pushups, decline pushups, whatever, doing like a kind of jailhouse workout. And then he'd bounce and get ready. And then I would put on some John Frashante and kind of meditate in a solemnness to tap into that. So I would empower my being and the anger and the frustrations and the...

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  The hurt and all the stuff that's a man's confined with. And then I would open up the sensitivity that I find in John's work. And the mourning and longing. And creativity. And then I'd go out and step out there and do it. But that every day helped me hone in on those things. And I remember working with Tupac and Mickey doing Bullet.

• 1:26:27Speaker 01

  And we were under the major Deegan in the Bronx in ninety, ninety-three, ninety-six. And a long time ago. And Mickey was the first actor that I worked with, who would always use music to get into a zone. And he had this Walkman, cassette Walkman. I was actually sitting in the limo, Pac's character had a limo, and I was playing him beats on cassette, of my beats on cassette. And then Mickey was there, listening, getting into a zone, listening to "Stairway to Heaven", and getting into his groove over there.

• 1:27:09Speaker 01

  And I was, I went bombing with Pac, by the way. You were asking me about writing. We both were tagging this handball court, and you can see some of it in the movie. And he wrote "Thug Life".

• 1:27:24Rick Rubin?

  Wow.

• 1:27:24Speaker 01

  He didn't have it tattooed on him as of yet. And he was writing "Thug Life", and I caught a little burner. And there I was, like, he took my can and we were bombing together. It was incredible moment. But, yeah, those were good days.

• 1:27:39Rick Rubin?

  Amazing.

• 1:28:07Speaker 02

  Tetragrammatin is a podcast. Tetragrammatin is a website. Tetragrammatin is a whole world of knowledge.

• 1:28:22Speaker 03

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• 1:29:05Speaker 03

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