How I Built Resilience: Sandra Oh Lin of KiwiCo

KiwiCo delivers science and arts projects to kids on a monthly basis. Sandra Oh Lin founded the company nine years ago, and her team has scrambled to meet demand during the pandemic. These conversations are excerpts from our How I Built Resilience series, where Guy talks online with founders and entrepreneurs about how they're navigating turbulent times. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 5:27Guy Raz?

  Hey, everyone, and welcome to How I Built This: Resilience Edition. On these episodes, we talk with entrepreneurs and other business leaders about how they're coping during this very challenging time. And today, we're going to hear from Sandra Olin, the founder and CEO of KiwiCo. KiwiCo makes arts and science projects for kids and ships them out in monthly subscription boxes, or crates. In March, when students began learning from home, Sandra's company saw a spike in orders, and it's now shipped over 20 million boxes around the world. I spoke with Sandra from her home in the Bay Area, where she's trying to keep up with demand. Tell us a little bit more about KiwiCo. For people who don't know what you do, tell us. Tell us about your company.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we design and we deliver hands-on experiences for kids, kids of all ages. So we have different types of experiences and products that we develop for newborns and infants all the way through to kids at heart, so teens and even grownups. And these hands-on experiences, they range, so science experiments, games that kids make and play, projects that encourage imaginative play. And they're all centered around this idea of how can we encourage kids to see themselves as makers?

• 6:43Guy Raz?

  And I think the probably the best-known product is the Kiwi Crate. And inside, like, you'd get pipe cleaners and different, you know, like Styrofoam balls. And I think that's probably the best-known product that you guys make, right? The Kiwi Crate?

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's our flagship line. So Kiwi Crate is geared for early elementary age kits, so ages five to eight. And it's very project-based. For Kiwi Crate, there are at least two different projects. And it's usually one that's a science and engineering-focused project, and one that's maybe more of an art and creativity design-focused project. So let's say one project, overall, it's about arcades. And one project might be you create a mechanical arcade claw that you can actually grab things with. And the other side of the crate might be a project where you're making your own yarn pom-pom creatures. And then you're actually taking your claw and you're trying to grab those creatures, as well as whatever else is around your house, too.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  So it's this a combination of discoveries, along with hopefully a little bit of delight and a whole bunch of fun.

• 7:45Guy Raz?

  Which I love. And tell me, I know that you launched this in 2011. And at the time, I guess you were like, you were in charge of the fashion portfolio for eBay. How did the idea come to you?

• 7:58Speaker 01

  So it was born mainly out of personal need. So my, my career has spanned consumer products and technology, mostly e-commerce. So I'd started my career in R and D at Procter & Gamble, and then had been at PayPal and at eBay. But when we started the company, so 2011, my kids, my oldest two kids,

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Were almost three and almost five. And I really wanted to give them exposure to hands-on activities. It was a way for them to really see themselves as producers and not just kind of passive consumers as kids who could actually kind of problem solve and make something. And so I started to pull together different materials and inspiration. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is taking a long time. Like, I need to amortize my, my effort. And so I would invite my friends and their kids. And one of the moms actually said, you should start a business around this. And it was one of those things where I think, long story short, is that we found that there are a lot of parents who are well-intentioned, very busy. They want enriching activities for their kids.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  And if it can come to them in a convenient format from a trusted brand, then that's something that actually really resonates. And then if you think about it from a business perspective, if you can get a subscription service to work, it works really well. Right? And so if you consider all the elements of a subscription service, or you're considering lifetime value, if you're able to drive down your costs of acquisition, then you're able to provide something that is not only valuable to the customer, but ends up being something that works really well on the business side, too.

• 9:33Guy Raz?

  I imagine when the, I mean, let's talk business for a moment. I mean, I imagine that when it became clear that the pandemic was going to shut down huge parts of the economy, like most business owners, you probably anticipated a downturn for your business. And first of all, how did you prepare for that possibility?

• 9:50Speaker 01

  Well, to be completely frank, it was a little bit of madness, I would say, kind of in the beginning. So we were a little bit ahead of the curve in having folks work remotely. But then as people started to shelter in place, it was definitely a scramble. You know, we had to see what the impact would be to the business. And so we definitely became more conservative. So very quickly, we decided to basically pull back or remain conservative on marketing spend. We were looking at things like hiring and figuring out what we wanted to do that. So we held on hiring. But then we were also tracking the business. And what we actually started to see pretty quickly Is a pretty decent uptick in the business.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  I think the combination of parents being home, needing something to engage kids. We happen to be a good solution. And so we started to see an uptick in the business and then accordingly had to manage the business based on that demand.

• 10:47Guy Raz?

  And a pretty dramatic uptick, I think, right?

• 10:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I think you had mentioned, Guy, kind of in the beginning, that we shipped out over 20 million crates now. And so if you look at kind of the first 10 million crates, we hit that mark actually in January 2019. And then in the next like 18 months or so, we actually shipped out another 10 million crates. And you can imagine kind of the acceleration of the business. And some of that is because of the acceleration that we saw in the business, given the pandemic and the demand that was there.

• 11:18Guy Raz?

  I'm not surprised. We spoke with the CEO of Dreambox, who told us that they have seen a doubling of onboarding onto their platform. It's a math platform for elementary school kids. I spoke to Sal Khan a few days ago, the founder of the Khan Academy. I mean, they're seeing record numbers of students on their platform. I mean, as you have seen this kind of surge in demand, how have you been able to meet that demand? I mean, for example, have you had any challenges sourcing supplies?

• 11:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we've definitely had different challenges associated with with meeting the demand. I think the great thing is that our team has been incredibly responsive and making sure that we were shoring up our supply chain, putting in the appropriate orders to make sure that we had the inventory available. And I think when it's kind of regular times, to a certain extent, it's almost like your utilities or you know, you expect the water to be there and the electricity work. And similarly, you expect that you're going to have product to ship. And so we had to be very proactive about making sure that some of these things that we maybe have taken for granted in the past were there and available to us so that we could actually serve the community. Fulfillment was definitely another area that we had to really shore up and make sure that we had the capacity.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  And then customer care. I mean, obviously, we want to do an excellent job of serving the customer and making sure that their questions. Are answered, et cetera. And so there was a certain amount of capacity that we were planning for in March, April, et cetera, May, June. And so we had to actually scale that up pretty significantly.

• 12:53Guy Raz?

  Um, let's go to some questions we're getting in from folks watching. This is from Kyle Zimmer. Um, he asks via Twitter. Um, how do you develop your kits and how do you test them with kids?

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we have, interestingly, kind of two product design and development teams. So we have a physical product design and development team, and then we have a digital. So the digital is creating the e-commerce platform or content platform. So the software. And then our physical product design team is really comprised of folks with mechanical engineering backgrounds, industrial design. We have someone who actually worked on space satellite systems. And so these are the folks who are concepting the different projects that get sent out to the kids, prototyping, testing, et cetera. And a big part of what we've done at KiwiCo, even since we started it in my garage,

• 13:42Speaker 01

  actually, is that we are always testing with children. So in every office that we've had, we have a sizable room. And four to eight times a week, kids are coming in to test the products at various stages. And that is something that is absolutely critical for us. We may assume that a project may be engaging, it may not. We may assume that a material is something that is malleable enough for preschoolers' hands, but it may not be. And so it's just a critical step. And so as we've actually been working remotely, that was a big challenge to figure out. And so it's been pretty amazing. We quickly decided to actually purchase 3D printers, laser cutters, et cetera, that we then distributed to different product designers.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  And then on the testing side, we ended up actually either shipping or having handoff locations for kids to pick up and test the materials and then do them via video conference. Um, and so we actually asked for different camera angles to see what the kids are doing. Because depending on the age of the kid, it's not so much that they're going to tell you what's going on. You actually have to observe what's going on. And so that's definitely been an area where we've had to figure out how to get things done in this environment.

• 14:58Guy Raz?

  When we come back in just a moment, Sandra talks about how KiwiCo is trying to make sure that it reaches all types of kids with all types of abilities. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to How I Built This, Resilience Edition from NPR.

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• 16:49Guy Raz?

  Hey, welcome back to How I Built This, Resilience Edition. And I'm speaking with Sandra Olin. She's the founder of KiwiCo. The company sends out subscription boxes to kids with all kinds of arts and science projects. We're getting some questions about diversity and encouraging diversity in STEM. Rachel Crack. asks, what role did the growth of women in STEM impact the creation of KiwiCo? Another question about how do you make sure that the crates are culturally relevant to encourage diversity in STEM?

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. So when we create our crates, we believe that it's really important that they're universal and that they are not gender specific or racially specific. We're very, very intentional about that. And even when we talk about testing with children, we make sure that we're testing with a lot of different children, different ages, different genders, et cetera, to different capabilities. In addition to that, I think for sure, I think these days, one thing that is on many people's minds are just the socioeconomic divides. And the fact that as we were coming out of the last school year, and when you look at children who are disadvantaged, they were maybe something like

• 18:05Speaker 01

  seven to 10 months behind. And so as we're going into this school year and we continue to see this divide really widen, I think there is this good question of what is it that we can do as KiwiCo? What role can we help play? And we're trying to figure that out. And so we have started to try to partner with certain organizations to be able to provide these experiences for disadvantaged youth, children of color. But there's definitely a lot more to do there. But knowing that some of these kids don't have access to the internet, don't have access to some of the platforms that they need to continue to learn, having something that is hands-on can be helpful to them. So we are still figuring that out.

• 18:47Guy Raz?

  One of the cool things that I read about, something you guys did this summer, you launched a camp, right? I mean, a lot of kids stuck at home or maybe they were going outside to a park, but not a whole lot of interaction with other kids. You launched this virtual camp, which basically, from what I understand, was designed to like basically occupy kids for a good chunk of the day. How did it work?

• 19:08Speaker 01

  And this actually also links to your previous question about how can we serve kind of kids across the board? And so what we just I'll get into the camp in just a second. What we discovered right as the pandemic hit is that folks really needed resources around how to actually encourage their kids to learn from home. So that first weekend in March, our team came together and basically built a resource hub. The resource hub included things like kid-friendly explanations as to what was going on, right? So the science behind hand washing or how do viruses actually spread? And so when we actually launched that resource hub, we actually crashed our site.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  We sent out the email announcing it and demonstrating that there is quite a bit of a need there. And then for the summer, then, Guy, kind of to your point, we said, what else can we do for the summer then? I mean, the summer is going to look unlike any other summer, but yet we knew that there is still fun and discoveries to be had. And so we pulled together Camp KiwiCo. So there are four different week-long sessions for kids of all ages. And it's important to us to make that actually available for free. And that was, again, something that was important because we were positioned in a way and we had the assets to be able to pull that together for the community.

• 20:26Guy Raz?

  Sounds like it was the product of necessity, right? We're here in this pandemic and it sounds like a creative idea that came up. Had you wanted to launch something like this in a normal year, it would have probably taken, you know, a year of planning and meetings and, right? And marketing strategies and all these things. And I imagine you just kind of put it out there. But is this something that you can imagine doing for good? Like, is this something that is part of your core strategy now?

• 20:52Speaker 01

  I mean, we did learn a lot from it. And so I do think that going forward, we will continue to create content for kids and for families. I mean, these are the times when the team comes together and they scramble and they build something. And I think to a certain extent, being able to come together and create something like Camp KiwiCo was actually something that was really exciting. It gave us kind of a sense of purpose and a mission that really kind of bonded us together and helped us actually even get through these times.

• 21:23Guy Raz?

  Yeah, given the fact that most kids are doing school from home. What are some of the things that parents should kind of keep in mind when it comes to supporting their kids? Not only this sort of the interface with a computer, but you know, non computer activity. What what are some suggestions that you have?

• 21:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that when it comes to STEM and STEAM, if you think about it, it is the foundation for things. It's how the world actually works. And what's kind of awesome is that you now have an opportunity to engage with your child in the world, in your home, around your home. And I think there are so many topics that are relevant today that can help a child think through, learn things, but also kind of help them in terms of critical thinking or problem solving. So whether it is, as I mentioned, just talking about the pandemic and how viruses spread or what people are doing, you know, these days in terms of medicines and things like that, or even talking about things like civics or how do elections work?

• 22:23Speaker 01

  I think there are so many opportunities with things that are going on in the real world today to be able to engage your child, engage in conversation, and again, hopefully, help pique their curiosity. So as they grow, they are able to build the creative confidence to be able to engage in those topics.

• 22:40Guy Raz?

  Sandra, do you think that school will ever, I don't know, will ever return to normal the way it was in January and February of 2020?

• 22:48Speaker 01

  It's a good question, Guy. I think that the world has changed. I think the context in which we operate and including school will evolve and change based on the experiences that we've had. I imagine to a certain extent that some people will actually choose to continue to homeschool their children. So there actually may be a shift there. Or I think that there is an opportunity to really look at the partnership between the school and really the educators at home, which might be the parents or the guardians as well. And so I think there could be some interesting things that happen there. I mean, the rise of the different softwares, you had mentioned DreamBox, et cetera, and how they're actually helping consumers is really fascinating to think about, too.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  So I think that it will change. It's a matter of how it'll actually change.

• 23:37Guy Raz?

  I'm gonna ask you to put on your entrepreneur's hat for just a moment. I mean, you started this business in 2011 when when a friend of yours was like, Sandra, this is amazing. You should go and do that, right? And that happens a lot. I mean, I'm sure people watching this or listening to this. Have experienced that, where a friend like tries their pasta dish and says, "You need to sell this," or whatever it might be. And most of us don't do it, right? We don't like quit our jobs and go and start something. What's your advice for people who are thinking about turning their interests and hobbies into a business venture?

• 24:09Speaker 01

  I mean, I think one of the things that was really important for me as I was thinking about launching KiwiCo is ensuring that this was not an N equals one demand, right? You need to, if you're thinking about launching a business, and certainly if you're thinking about launching, hopefully it'll be a decent-sized business, you want to make sure that there's an addressable market that's actually big enough to capture what it is that you're putting out into the world. And so, early on, I was very, very interested in talking to consumers. So I did qualitative focus groups in my living room, in my friends' living rooms. Also did surveys. Actually got thousands of responses across the US because I also

• 24:54Speaker 01

  recognized that I live in a certain area with maybe certain perspectives. And so that was really important to do, too. And so I would say, you know, being very customer-focused, really considering the market and seeing how your product or service that you want to put out there actually resonates is something that is pretty critical. And I think you learn a ton of stuff along the way around how to shape your business if that's what you end up deciding to do.

• 25:21Guy Raz?

  Awesome. Sandra Olin, CEO, founder of KiwiCo. Thank you so much.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  It's a pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.

• 25:28Guy Raz?

  That's an excerpt from my conversation with Sandra Olin, the founder and CEO of KiwiCo. To see our full interview, you can go to facebook.com/HowIBuiltThis and click on "Videos." And if you want to see all of our past live interviews, you can find them there. This episode was produced by Candace Lim with help from Will Mitchell, Matt Adams, Gianna Capadona, John Isabella, Julia Carney, Neva Grant, and Jeff Rogers. Thanks for listening. Stay safe, and I'll see you back here in a few days. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built This.