Himesh Patel

Himesh Patel is having a moment and there's even more excitement to come. Coming off a long run on EASTENDERS, Patel led the Danny Boyle hit YESTERDAY and since then there's been no looking back with TENET, STATION ELEVEN, and now this summer with THE ODYSSEY and ENOLA HOLMES 3, plus THE X-FILES is around the corner! He joins Josh to talk about it all! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.rula.com/happy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:29Josh Horowitz?

  Same at one, actually really understand what happened to Tenet.

• 0:32Speaker 02

  Probably what didn't happen was, I think, Rob himself went, "I don't really know, I don't think I understand the movie."

• 0:37Josh Horowitz?

  Which, I think I believe, like, I don't know.

• 0:39Speaker 02

  I completely believe it, by the way, yeah, I completely believe it.

• 0:42Josh Horowitz?

  So when you're doing scenes with Rob, did he ever say out loud in your presence?

• 0:45Speaker 02

  No.

• 0:45Josh Horowitz?

  No, he kept it to himself.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  No, no, no, yeah. But I think, I mean, there is a story that at one point, he turned to John David and went, "Am I dead?" Or, you know.

• 0:54Josh Horowitz?

  Just need a basic answer.

• 0:56Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins.

• 1:03Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the show, first time guest, Himesh Patel, from EastEnders, and yesterday, to Anoah Holmes and The Odyssey. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. Remember to hit that subscribe button on YouTube, on Spotify, on whatever platform you're using. I appreciate you, guys. Always great to welcome a new guest to the pod, especially somebody like Hamesh, who has definitely been on my radar for a number of years. He is killing it. And this summer is great evidence of that. He's got the one-two punch of Anoah Holmes 3 on Netflix, and the biggest movie summer year, maybe, arguably, The Odyssey. So this is a great chat. Very thrilled to have him on the podcast at last.

• 1:47Josh Horowitz?

  Before we get to Hamesh, remember, give our Patreon a try if you haven't already. Check it out, because you get all the early access to every single episode. You get discount codes, you get access to our live events, autographed merch, all sorts of fun stuff. Patreon.com/happysadconfused. Just check it out, see if there's something there for you. I won't hold it against you if you don't sign up. But if you do, there's bang for your buck. I promise you. Main event today is Hamesh Patel. This was a one that's been long in the making. He's been, as I said, on my radar for quite a bit. How could he not be? You know, coming off of EastEnders, which admittedly is a blind spot for me and most Americans, but was a huge part of his career, nine years on that iconic British show.

• 2:31Josh Horowitz?

  But then what he's done in the last six, seven years, really astounding. Yesterday was essentially his film debut, center stage of that one, big hit, Danny Boyle, of course. And then following it up with things like Station Eleven, which is maybe, I don't know if it's underrated. I think people acknowledge what an accomplishment that one was, but might, might have also been a victim of the pandemic. If you haven't seen Station Eleven, highly, highly recommend. One of the great shows in recent memory. But he, of course, joined the Christopher Nolan fold in Tenet. We talk about that. He's back in The Odyssey and in Noah Holmes Three as Dr. Watson, another iconic role.

• 3:12Josh Horowitz?

  I had a busy Noah Holmes few days because I had the opportunity to chat with Millie Bobby Brown, which by now you guys probably have seen, if you haven't already, really great episode, I will say. A live event we did with her at the 92nd Street Y. If you haven't checked it out, check it out in the archives, a really good one. And then followed it up with this. I, we weren't able to get Himesh to my usual studio, but I made the, the trip to the Plaza in New York to sit down with him at the junket, carved out our usual big chunk of time. So I appreciate him and the Netflix folks and his reps for making it work. And I'm so glad it did because just a soft spoken, serious, but also clearly has a great sense of humor.

• 3:55Josh Horowitz?

  And, and above all else, a hugely talented actor. So, so thrilled it finally happened. Himesh Patel, for your eyes and ears today. Without any further ado, enjoy.

• 4:06Josh Horowitz?

  I'm Ash. Should we do this?

• 4:07Speaker 02

  Let's do it.

• 4:08Josh Horowitz?

  We're here. There are cameras. This is, thank you for, by the way, inviting me to your home. This is, this is, this is your place, right?

• 4:14Speaker 02

  This is my home. I live at the Plaza in New York. This is where I live. Yeah.

• 4:18Josh Horowitz?

  This is how I imagine everyone in Flat to be. So it looks exactly like this.

• 4:22Speaker 02

  There's a few, but not, not many.

• 4:25Josh Horowitz?

  If, if I invaded your home, is there more evidence that of you being an actor or you being a dad in your home?

• 4:31Speaker 02

  Dad. Yeah, yeah. Definitely.

• 4:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. Just detritus.

• 4:37Josh Horowitz?

  Wow, you're blaming it on your children?

• 4:39Speaker 02

  No, no, no.

• 4:39Josh Horowitz?

  We know it's all you.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  They can't tidy it up. You know, but, uh, yeah, yeah.

• 4:44Josh Horowitz?

  Um, are you, are you one to keep souvenirs or any like mementos?

• 4:48Speaker 02

  I'm way too sentimental, actually.

• 4:49Josh Horowitz?

  Really?

• 4:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:50Josh Horowitz?

  What do you got?

• 4:51Speaker 02

  Just every like trinkets and stuff and, you know, there's a little rock. It's like some rock or something that my kid found. Maybe when we were in India and I, I still have it in my bag.

• 5:05Josh Horowitz?

  This is what?

• 5:06Speaker 02

  And I keep finding it and going, I was pulling it out of this, but I, I don't.

• 5:10Josh Horowitz?

  Well, at least it's not taking up a large amount of space.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  No.

• 5:12Josh Horowitz?

  Small rocks you can do.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:14Josh Horowitz?

  You're just trying to, you know.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  But I do, I keep a lot of scripts, uh, from, I've got like tubs full of old scripts and stuff. Not sure what I'm gonna do with those.

• 5:24Josh Horowitz?

  It marks, it marks a time.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  It does. Yeah. Yeah.

• 5:27Josh Horowitz?

  And do you, I, I'm curious, I sometimes ask actors this. I'm curious like what their scripts actually look like. Like does, are yours like filled in the margin with notes or is it pretty spare?

• 5:37Speaker 02

  Quite spare, actually. I, I, you know, but I'm getting better at actually being a bit more sort of academic about it.

• 5:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  And writing things down rather than just trusting that I'll remember them in some sort of internal way.

• 5:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  But yeah.

• 5:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. I'm talking to you at a, at a very cool moment. So, I mean, I've been on my radar for, for quite a while. Um, congratulations and all the success.

• 5:58Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thanks.

• 5:59Josh Horowitz?

  And, and right now, you know, I joke, but we're, we're at the Inola Homes three junket. Making some time for me and Happy second views. I appreciate it. I'm also gonna see you next week for the Odyssey.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  Great.

• 6:08Josh Horowitz?

  So we better get along today.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Otherwise it's gonna be awkward. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:12Josh Horowitz?

  Um, but I mean, look, those are two great accomplishments, obviously massive entertainments in their own right. You're also, I think, shooting or just shot maybe X-Files, which we can tease a little bit, which is. Can't be more excited about that, you and Ryan Coogler.

• 6:28Josh Horowitz?

  Just give me a little sense of like, do you take a moment to kind of like assess where you're at? Thirty five years old, a dad, a husband, but also where you are at in your career?

• 6:38Speaker 02

  I uh, I can barely fathom it in all honesty. It's kind of beyond my wildest dreams. So I'm, I am very thankful for it and um,

• 6:50Speaker 02

  just I'm, I'm trying to be better at living in the moment. I was saying earlier, you know, this, this week in and of itself, probably the next 10 days or so is going to be a real whirlwind.

• 6:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, this is the unusual.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is, but I, I, I don't want to take it for granted. I don't want to wish it away.

• 7:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:07Speaker 02

  Um, maybe I've been a bit guilty of doing that before. So it's just sort of just soaking it in and um, maybe allowing a little pat on the back every now and then, but you know, it's not very British to do that.

• 7:19Josh Horowitz?

  We'll allow it. In this circumstance, we will. But I mean, are you a goal-driven kind of an actor? Like, do you set markers for yourself? And what do those look like?

• 7:28Speaker 02

  I don't think previously I've set like, you know, specific markers.

• 7:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  But I, I certainly maybe more recently have come to terms with the fact that, you know, yes, I do have ambition. I have things that I would like to do, but what's happened is they just sort of ended up happening. Uh, you know, now I think that's maybe got a lot to do with, I've maybe got a good team behind me who just sort of understand me and what's gonna get me going. And so they've, they've found me that stuff, but it's also uh, I guess you, you have a sort of sense of what, what gets you going and, and um, and so I, whatever's been guiding me thus far is, uh, you know, it's done me well and

• 8:11Speaker 02

  I certainly, you know, want to maybe take the bull by the horns a little bit and go, okay, what can we? What can we achieve while we're up here, you know, um, what, what can, how can we continue to steer X, Y, Z conversation, you know, that sort of thing. So, yeah, there's plenty that I want to achieve and um, I just, I want to do it in, in the best way possible.

• 8:33Josh Horowitz?

  Well, there is that always that transition point for many actors I talk to, which is like a fascinating one because it's, it's that, that period of time from like just taking a job because God knows, any actor just wants a job.

• 8:45Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 8:45Josh Horowitz?

  A part out there.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:46Josh Horowitz?

  To, to the luxury of choice.

• 8:48Speaker 02

  Yes, and it is a luxury, yeah.

• 8:49Josh Horowitz?

  And, and also the strange thing you have to wrap your brain around when you have the opportunity to say no to things, which, which is also like a crazy thing because I would imagine now you say no to things that five years ago, 10 years ago would have been unfathomable.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Um, it is, it is a real luxury and it's scary to say no. It's scary to say no because you're just kind of going, is this horrific mistake I'm making?

• 9:17Speaker 02

  But as I say, I think so far it's worked out well.

• 9:22Josh Horowitz?

  From the outside looking in, yes.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:25Josh Horowitz?

  I can be a nonpartial arbiter of this.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  But I think it's also, you know, your, your, your priorities in life will shift.

• 9:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  As you say, I'm a parent now, so that, that shifts certain things, but um, but yeah, so far it's all, it's all generally balancing out pretty well.

• 9:40Josh Horowitz?

  So, so if I talk to friends and family that knew you growing up, are they surprised that the trajectory of like, that you're in the arts, let alone so successful? Like, was this always in the cards, you think?

• 9:51Speaker 02

  I think it was pretty much always on the cards. Not, not that anyone went, yeah, of course he was always going to get to do the kind of things that I've gotten to do. But I always enjoyed it. I always loved it from a young age and and I was encouraged, you know, my parents really encouraged me to, to, to, you know, go to youth theatre to begin with and then to, to audition. And, and so, you know, they, they was, they were behind me all the way and, and, and I've got wonderful friends in my life who, who don't allow me to leave terra firma. They, they very much make sure that I'm, you know, I'm grounded. So, yeah.

• 10:31Josh Horowitz?

  And what was, when you think back, was there early formative moments of validation that really kind of kept, kept you going even as a kid where someone said, yeah, stick with this, you, you've got something?

• 10:43Speaker 02

  The first time that happened, I did, there's, there's a show in the UK called This Is Your Life.

• 10:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  If you know about this show. And the guy, and they did it, there was a version of it that would, that would be done in schools around the country called This Is Your Life Santa Claus.

• 10:58Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  And I played Michael Asquith, who was the host of this show in the UK. Um, and obviously you're playing a version of him for this sort of Christmas show at school. And, um, and I did that and apparently as my mom tells me that, that the, the teacher said that, that, you know, he's got a certain aptitude for this and, you know, maybe sign them up to the local youth theatre, which he did. And then, you know, I had a great time at the local youth theatre. They were really encouraging, the key youth theatre in Peterborough, uh, at the time. And, um, and, and they really nurtured me. And then I joined another youth theatre in Cambridge in the UK called The Young Actors Company.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  And they, they, I, I did a screen, sort of Sunday Screen Academy thing with them.

• 11:45Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  And that was my first introduction to cameras and how cameras work and how you shoot things and that sort of thing. Which couldn't have come out on more opportune, opportune time, because then a year later I got my, my break in the UK on, on EastEnders.

• 11:57Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  And then so, um, there were just sort of, I was, I, I felt really well nurtured along the way. You know, I was very lucky that those infrastructures existed around where I grew up. And very lucky that my parents were very encouraging of it and supportive and, and, you know. Um, and so those were, rather than necessarily any particular validations of talent, it was more just the, the continued support that I had from various contexts.

• 12:27Josh Horowitz?

  And did you see, did you see a path even then, before EastEnders, I'm even saying, like, did you see people like you, that looked like you on screen that said, yeah, that could be me?

• 12:37Speaker 02

  There were a few, you know, uh, I, I mean, I'd say probably not long before I got EastEnders was when Dev appeared on Skins.

• 12:44Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  And that was a big thing. And, and actually around the same time Riz was doing, uh, he did a show called Brits.

• 12:51Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  Which, he doesn't know this, actually. I don't, I don't know if we've ever spoken about it. I did a day's extras. I did, I was an extra on that show for a day.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  Which I don't know if he knows that.

• 13:03Josh Horowitz?

  This is this is the source of the friction because you were just on the outside while big time riz.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  And that's why we hate each other.

• 13:10Josh Horowitz?

  I have to say, just like off topic for a second.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:12Josh Horowitz?

  One of the most enjoyable things I've watched the last week was you guys at Southside.

• 13:16Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, that was great.

• 13:17Josh Horowitz?

  Promoting um.

• 13:18Speaker 02

  Bait, yeah.

• 13:19Josh Horowitz?

  Um, yeah, the the deadpan, the commitment to the bit.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  It was great, yeah. It was a lot of fun. Um, no, so you know, they were appearing and but there was a whole generation of actors before, almost all of whom I've I've had the privilege of working with since um South Asian actors who I saw on TV. But it was it was rare to see anyone in a in a prominent position or a leading position on anything. Um, and and so, yeah, I I I felt very.

• 13:53Speaker 02

  I the the path wasn't that clear.

• 13:55Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  I just wanted to try and then see where that led.

• 13:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  And then same thing, even when I left EastEnders after nine years, there wasn't really a path necessarily of, okay, I can um.

• 14:10Josh Horowitz?

  This is what X Y Z has done. There's so few exact.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  I had a little bit, you know, my mate Ben Hardy had just left and you know, he I remember like he left and then a week later they were like, he's gonna be an X-Men.

• 14:22Josh Horowitz?

  And we go, that sounds good.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  I was like, what? Who does that? Um, but there was no one I that I knew who'd been on a soap for nine years.

• 14:32Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  And then got to be in in things like that.

• 14:35Josh Horowitz?

  So contextualize this for the dumb Americans like me, because like I I know of EastEnders, of course. I've not, to be honest, watched an iota over the I apologize, this is not part of our cultural fabric. Um, what is the comp? I mean, is it daytime soaps here, like the nighttime, like, is it like, what's the?

• 14:54Speaker 02

  It's somewhere in between those things, I think. Um, from from what I've from what I've learned about US soaps, you know, so it's a very different thing, but. Um. It's somewhere between that and a and a sort of gritty drama, really.

• 15:07Josh Horowitz?

  And the volume of work, because you're there for nine years, like, how, like, are you?

• 15:11Speaker 02

  Uh, you you're shooting, uh, a a a a block is four episodes of half an hour TV. And and that takes two weeks to shoot and they're sort of overlap overlapping blocks. So you're, you know, then you can have one week where you in the morning are shooting uh, one block and then in the afternoon you go back in time to the next block.

• 15:32Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  And you have to remember where you are and what your character was doing at any given place. So it's a great training ground.

• 15:37Josh Horowitz?

  It must be. It's just you're putting in the reps, you're putting in the hours, like.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  Um, it really, you know, you drill a lot of things. And also, I was very, uh, again, when you talk about being nurtured, you know, they really believed in me and and pushed me in many ways as an actor, you know, they wrote things for my character to do that that didn't necessarily pigeonhole me. And and so I got to to to try my hand at various different things and um, and that really stood me in good stead, I think.

• 16:07Josh Horowitz?

  How did you handle? I mean, I would imagine being a prominent part of that show, especially back in the UK, that changes your life, like, I mean, in terms of, like, walking the streets, like, how did you handle?

• 16:17Speaker 02

  It it did to some extent. It did to some extent.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  For the first five years, I I was still living at home with my parents in my little village.

• 16:27Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 16:28Speaker 02

  So there it didn't really change a whole lot because there's a bit of a novelty for a bit, and then then the villagers are just like, well, you're just a kid from the shop still, like, you're not, you know. You know, you're not all that.

• 16:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Especially when I was still delivering newspapers for my parents for those five years, so.

• 16:44Josh Horowitz?

  Keep them in check, yeah.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, it doesn't really. And then, you know, I I moved to London.

• 16:52Speaker 02

  People kind of, they see people around all the time, to be honest. It is a very different type of fame, though. It's a different type of fame. Because people don't necessarily know you. They know the character.

• 17:03Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, they're live, you're in their living room.

• 17:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:05Josh Horowitz?

  You're with them a lot.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's not like anyone knows who who Himesh is, that they know, like, the character and the show.

• 17:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  And so it's a very strange, specific type of fame. Um, but I think.

• 17:23Speaker 02

  I I there's a very sort of thin line I found between being on a soap in the UK and being a celebrity, being someone who does, you know, that sort of thing. And if that's what you want to do, that's great. You know, there's a lot of people who've had great success through doing that. And that's wonderful. But it was never my aim. I, you know, the actors that I had the privilege of working with on that show, they were about the work.

• 17:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:46Speaker 02

  They, you know, they were really about um making, making the work that the most important thing, making it the best it can be. And that's how you grow as an actor.

• 17:56Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 17:56Speaker 02

  And that was my main aim. My main aim was to get better every day as an actor. So I, I, I made sure that I, I, I hadn't a real interest in fame. You know, it wasn't really, I, I, I really value being able to just walk down the street with a relative sense of anonymity and, and, and live your life, you know. And I'm very lucky. I can still do that, really, you know. So I, it, it doesn't.

• 18:20Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't really, I, I don't want much more besides that.

• 18:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you're kind of in that sweet spot, I would imagine, where you get like, and I'm sure there are some nice nods and some nice.

• 18:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course there are. But it's usually just people just sort of being really nice, just coming up and saying, you know, I liked you in X, Y, Z. And that's lovely.

• 18:36Josh Horowitz?

  Gives you a little boost and on with the day.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  And then you get on with your day.

• 18:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  Continue to walk around.

• 19:16Speaker 04

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• 20:01Speaker 04

  It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy. Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe. Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts, and let's solve this thing together.

• 20:18Josh Horowitz?

  I want to come to kind of the exit out of these centers, but I want to backtrack also because I'd love to get more of a sense of like your sensibilities of like as a consumer of pop culture, entertainment, film, and TV. I'm always curious, like, you know, obviously the films that made an impact, the TV that made an impact, the actors that early on really were resident to you. What comes to mind when I say stuff like that?

• 20:40Speaker 02

  I mean, early, early on, there was, there was a real sort of a rich tapestry of things in the home I grew up in.

• 20:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  Because I had all the pop culture that was, that was there as being a young, sort of British household. So you have everything that's coming through the TV. You have all this sort of Disney movies. I mean, Aladdin was a huge one for me. The Lion King, those were huge. They had a big impact on me. Toy Story, all those sorts of, you know, Space Jam. That was a big moment. Loved Space Jam. You know, the Jurassic Park, all those sorts of classic movies that we all grew up watching on both sides of the pond. But then I had a whole other context of Indian cinema or Bollywood. And that was huge for me. You know, that was, that was really a huge part of my childhood and, and of, because I think

• 21:32Speaker 02

  it was probably a lot to do with. Oh, there's someone that looks like me on on a on a screen in that in.

• 21:40Josh Horowitz?

  The center of the frame.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Um, and and the whole context of music and and and a culture that I I understood in that way. So that was a huge thing. And and then, you know, as you grow into your teenage years, you sort of. Um, music was a huge thing for me. Uh, you know, the uh, growing up in the noughties, there was the big sort of indie move in in in the UK with. You know, some great bands, probably spearheaded by like Arctic Monkeys and amongst many others.

• 22:13Josh Horowitz?

  And what about like, you know, when you think of the quintessential, you know, British TV film like? I know you have some, you've had some connection with Doctor Who over the years. Was Doctor Who big in your house?

• 22:23Speaker 02

  It was, yeah. Yeah, so who was big? Yeah. Um, when it re when it came back, it was rebooted. That was a big one.

• 22:29Josh Horowitz?

  Who was your doctor? Who was the?

• 22:32Speaker 02

  My, as in my favorite?

• 22:33Josh Horowitz?

  Well, who was the one like, when you think of Doctor Doctor Who, like Peacock for you?

• 22:37Speaker 02

  I mean, it's gotta be David Tennant, really. I mean, he he was really, you know, I love Christopher Eccleston. And then like, but there was that, it was a really special time, just in the year. It felt like everyone was watching Doctor Who.

• 22:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  Um, as opposed to it being this sort of niche sci fi kids show, it was like everyone was just watching it.

• 22:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  Um, so that was, you know, that was a big, big thing in our household.

• 22:57Josh Horowitz?

  James Bond, Harry Potter.

• 22:59Speaker 02

  Bond Potter was big. Um, yeah, I remember my dad taking me to see Casino Royale. It was the first Bond movie I saw in the cinemas.

• 23:06Josh Horowitz?

  That's a good one.

• 23:08Speaker 02

  That was like, cause and I'd seen Bond movies on TV.

• 23:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, there was something visceral, that black and white sequence at the beginning.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  Gosh. I mean, he just rewrote the rulebook. Um, and when I say he, I mean, it was Martin Campbell, right? He directed that, but. There was something in his in his eyes, man. The I just, I always go like, you're gonna reboot Bond and you go, let me, okay, let me just drown a guy in a sink and then shoot the other guy.

• 23:33Josh Horowitz?

  Totally.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  And we're off.

• 23:35Josh Horowitz?

  They did. They.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  As a mission statement. It's like, okay, then, uh, I guess we're not, we're not, we're not doing any subtle winks to the audience here. It's just.

• 23:43Josh Horowitz?

  No Roger Moore this time.

• 23:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, and um, and what a great movie it was, so.

• 23:47Josh Horowitz?

  What's your, what's your place in the Bond universe going forward? Whether you're Bond or a Bond villain?

• 23:52Speaker 02

  Gosh, well, I just wanna see them do it really well, you know? And what a huge opportunity. Yeah, I mean, she was just like, how can you get it wrong? Um, and uh, and so let's see what happens, but I, I, I'm, I'm really excited to find out who's gonna play Bond first.

• 24:08Josh Horowitz?

  It's like we're getting closer.

• 24:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I was reading and um, and then yeah, let's, let's see what story they choose to tell.

• 24:14Josh Horowitz?

  I heard you, you were, were you a big Lord of the Rings guy?

• 24:17Speaker 02

  I was a big Lord of the Rings guy, yeah.

• 24:18Josh Horowitz?

  Books, films, both, like?

• 24:20Speaker 02

  Uh, the films led me to the, to the book. Um, and then I had this like, it was the whole unabridged version with everything and then the appendices and all of that and you know, I got into all of it. And I also got into, you know that the, the Games Workshop is that, does that mean anything to you in the US?

• 24:36Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  You know what Warhammer is?

• 24:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yes, yes.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  Okay, so I never got into Warhammer, that was there, but I, I, they did a whole Lord of the Rings version of it, of like this tabletop game with these. I never cared about the game, I never cared about that, but I was really into painting the, like, there was just something sort of meditative about.

• 24:52Josh Horowitz?

  Have you talked to Sherlock about this?

• 24:54Speaker 02

  No, no, we, we have, we don't really get so much time together because they're.

• 24:58Josh Horowitz?

  But you know, he's like the biggest Warhammer.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  Yes, so I've heard, yeah, yeah. He's trying to get a movie, isn't he? He's trying to make a movie of it, yeah.

• 25:04Josh Horowitz?

  He's legit, he's like.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah, so I, you know, Lord of the Rings was, was, was massive for me, I mean, I, you know. And of course I'm looking forward to seeing what they do, but I just, I don't see how you.

• 25:16Josh Horowitz?

  It's a fact of all good. Andy knows the world.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  He's, yeah, and having met him a few times now, I mean, what a lovely, lovely guy.

• 25:23Josh Horowitz?

  Have you done performance capture yet?

• 25:24Speaker 02

  I would love to.

• 25:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:26Speaker 02

  I would love to.

• 25:27Josh Horowitz?

  Some actors immediately like, not for me, I can't, but that sounds intriguing to me.

• 25:31Speaker 02

  I remember taking my dad to see the second Planet of the Apes movie, you know, that he did.

• 25:35Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, I love.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  The um, Matt Reeves directed that one, yeah.

• 25:37Josh Horowitz?

  The Matt Reeves ones are.

• 25:39Speaker 02

  I'd seen the, the, the first one, the, with James Franco, and I thought it was fun.

• 25:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  And then I was like, I was gonna take my dad to the cinema and take him to see Planet of the Apes movie, and then the second one, that would be fun. Came out of it having like an existential crisis about why we'll never be a utopian society and that we're all gonna just like kill each other eventually, like.

• 25:58Josh Horowitz?

  I just wanted to have a nice time with my dad.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  I just wanted to watch a movie about talking apes, I don't know what happened, uh, but I'm basically.

• 26:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  Um, having some sort of existential crisis, yeah.

• 26:09Josh Horowitz?

  The power of.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  So, I mean, I thought it was amazing, you know, what you can do with that technology, uh, that really brought it home for me and um. Yeah, I'd love to try something like that. Yeah.

• 26:18Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so coming out of EastEnders, you kind of alluded to this, like, yes, Ben Hardy accepted. Like, did you feel there was a path that like, oh, oh crap, this is gonna like, I don't know. I've had security for nine years. That is a luxury. And now there's opportunity, but it's also scary out there. Like, what were you feeling coming out of EastEnders?

• 26:36Speaker 02

  It was scary. Yeah, you know, I'd taken a leap of faith, you know, because I decided that I wanted to leave. And I I I had no promise of anything because you also, you can't really audition for anything while you're on the show.

• 26:47Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  They have to know that you've left and that you definitely have left so that they're not going to have any issues. But, you know, I I think I talked about this recently, but I I at some point I heard Bryan Cranston say, maybe on your podcast. But I heard him say something about acting being, you know, having a career as an actor being fifty percent hard work, fifty percent luck.

• 27:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  And I think I've leaned very heavily on that fifty percent luck side of it because things just sort of lined up in a really nice way. You know, I hadn't long left EastEnders when I got a role on a Channel Four comedy show called Damned.

• 27:21Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  That was almost immediate. And then off between, then I did that. And then I went to the Edinburgh Fringe and did a play with my friend, where I played a pigeon, which was a lot of fun. And I had the best summer of my life. And then, you know, towards the end of that year, I got a a role on a in a Western show with David Tennant. And in direct by Patrick Marber, that gave me a whole world of experience. And then I did that while doing a second series of Damned. And then I went, came here to New York to do a play.

• 27:51Speaker 02

  A wonderful play called People, Places and Things with Denise Gough is a fantastic actor.

• 27:55Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, sure.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  And that was an amazing experience because it was a very hot play in London. And then I joined the cast for this New York run. We had like everyone coming to watch it, you know, because it was.

• 28:04Josh Horowitz?

  Not that it's being the hot play in New York.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  Oh, man. There was, I, my, I was a part of the ensemble. I had like a one specific line in a specific sequence. And then we had the interval. And I remember one one time during the interval, someone was like, did you see it was like, what Pacino's in the audience. I'm like, I'm glad I just found that out because if I knew that at the beginning of the play, I don't know what I would have done.

• 28:24Josh Horowitz?

  How am I doing, Mr. Pacino?

• 28:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. So, you know, that was a great experience. And it was during that play that I got the the uh the email about taping for what would eventually become Yesterday.

• 28:35Josh Horowitz?

  So, okay, yesterday, um, I mean, we all love Danny Boyle for a thousand reasons. There's the body of work. There's also the man. I mean, I'm obsessed with him.

• 28:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's a wonderful human being, yeah.

• 28:45Josh Horowitz?

  Like, the most energetic, enthusiastic person.

• 28:48Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:49Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, to have his, again, validation, to have, you know, him at your back, you know, that must mean the world to a young actor at that pivotal moment.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  It was a huge, you know, I I'd say if we're talking about something like, yeah, validation or

• 29:06Speaker 02

  or just a sense that, oh, maybe this is if I, you know, this is the the opportunity.

• 29:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  And I couldn't put my pressure on that, uh, my that my pressure on myself when the audition came in. Because the audition is just an audition and, you know, it's it's like, I'm glad that I got to audition.

• 29:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  I sent this tape while I was in New York. And then and then I heard back that they wanted to me to audition in person with Danny and and with Richard Curtis. Um, and I I was like, how amazing, how exciting. I don't think I've got a chance in hell of getting this role, but I'm just gonna enjoy myself.

• 29:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  And so I, you know, I I finished the play, came back home. And I just walked into the audition room. I was like, I get to play a couple of Beatles songs and do a couple of scenes with these guys. You know, what a what a privilege of a lifetime that's gonna be and just enjoy that.

• 30:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:05Speaker 02

  Don't have any sense of what's gonna come after, you know, just just enjoy it.

• 30:08Josh Horowitz?

  Well.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  That's kind of what I did. And I think actually, you know, that's why it was such an enjoyable experience. And there was something there that Danny saw, yeah.

• 30:16Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I mean, I often talk to actors about kind of like achieving that kind of flow state, that relaxation. It sounds like that's like what you did going into that audition room.

• 30:24Speaker 02

  I try, yeah, I tried.

• 30:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yourself to.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  I guess because it was like, at that point, like, was kind of the most absurd room I'd ever walked into, not just Danny Boyle, but Richard Curtis, like, both of them just in the room. And they were like, please sing us two Beatles songs.

• 30:38Josh Horowitz?

  Where upon where. Anything else? Is Mickey Mouse gonna walk in?

• 30:42Speaker 02

  Exactly. There's no point me trying to like amp this into anything else. It just is fun.

• 30:48Josh Horowitz?

  Has there been a similarly surreal moment in the years since walking into an audition room?

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Endless. And walking into an audition room.

• 30:56Josh Horowitz?

  Whether you got it or not, like just an from an experience stage, like, oh, I just had that moment with this filmmaker I admire, this actor I admire.

• 31:05Speaker 02

  Man.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  It's been more like, to be honest, been lucky of being on set with people.

• 31:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:12Speaker 02

  And kind of going.

• 31:14Josh Horowitz?

  The Noah experiences.

• 31:15Speaker 02

  What am I doing here? This is crazy, you know?

• 31:19Josh Horowitz?

  Before we move into Noah and the work with Chris Nolan, I do want to mention Station Eleven, which.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Oh, thanks, man. Yeah, yeah.

• 31:25Josh Horowitz?

  Obsessed.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm really proud of that one. I'm really, really proud of that show and.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  We made it during a really difficult time.

• 31:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So we remind me the timeline. Did you shoot the first episode before the pandemic?

• 31:40Speaker 02

  We shot episodes one and three. Those were the episodes directed by Hiro Morai.

• 31:44Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  At the big in January into February of 2020.

• 31:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  And of course, the first episode is all my characters discovering a pandemic is unfolding and and it unfolds.

• 31:58Speaker 02

  And then we wrapped and we said, we'll see you in the summer. And then it all came to life. And then suddenly an actual pandemic appeared.

• 32:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:06Speaker 02

  So then we came, we came back a year later and everything shifted over to Toronto from Chicago.

• 32:13Speaker 02

  And we. And we, we shot the rest of the show in the midst of a real lockdown, you know?

• 32:22Josh Horowitz?

  So a variety of factors, I would imagine, contribute to making that a meaningful experience. The very unusual circumstances, but the material. Hero who's now doing Widows Bay, which I'm also obsessed with.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  I haven't started watching it yet, but I can't wait. Yeah.

• 32:34Josh Horowitz?

  Good. You've heard what people are saying.

• 32:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 32:37Josh Horowitz?

  The company of actors, I mean, Mackenzie, I'm a huge fan of as well. She's wonderful.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 32:43Josh Horowitz?

  And just the arc for your character. It's a big, it's a big journey.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  It was some. It's it's a gift of a role.

• 32:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  You usually get handed something like that and and as much as you go, I'm gonna work hard and make this the best it can be. You're like, this has landed in my.

• 33:00Josh Horowitz?

  I don't wanna screw this up.

• 33:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, I auditioned and and and as soon as I found out I had it, I was like, this is a real opportunity to to to challenge myself.

• 33:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  Um, and so I I'm just really glad we got to make it, that we got it done and and people keep discovering it.

• 33:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  And and they keep, you know, it's sort of getting its dues uh spread out over time.

• 33:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:24Speaker 02

  Rather than a sort of like immediate flurry of awards thrown at it, but um it was it's a show that will stand the test of time. It's a really wonderful piece of work.

• 33:33Josh Horowitz?

  So Christopher Nolan.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 33:36Josh Horowitz?

  The journey began with Tenet.

• 33:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:38Josh Horowitz?

  Is that an audition? Is that a?

• 33:39Speaker 02

  That was an audition, yeah. I'd been making a show in New Zealand. And I got a call from my agent saying, and it was one of those where I knew they obviously announced that, you know, Christopher Nolan is making a new movie and whatever. And I was like, cool, I look forward to watching that. And then my agent called and said it's the last role that they're casting. And they want you to audition for it, so you'll fly home to London via L A. And I was doing press for yesterday already at that point, so then I auditioned with John Papcidero. Wonderful guy, wonderful casting director and um and it was dummy sides from and I've discovered. I was reading them with my partner and she was like, why do I recognize this? And we realized it was Ocean's Eleven.

• 34:22Speaker 02

  And so uh that was quite fun.

• 34:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  Um, but clearly I went, he doesn't want me to do Ocean's Eleven.

• 34:28Josh Horowitz?

  Right, I'm not playing.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  He wants me to just read this uh call for what it is and do whatever. So I had a lovely session with John, just had a, you know, a nice audition and then um a month or so passed, maybe even a couple of months. And then I got a call, I just couldn't believe it, you know. To even be auditioning for him was a thrill, because I I love his movies, genuinely like one of my favorite filmmakers, probably one of the most influential filmmakers of my generation specifically, like, you know, he kind of changed a lot of things. So it was it was a real, you know, I I had a ball. And what I got to do in that movie, you know, was just all the really fun stuff.

• 35:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  Um, so, yeah, that was great.

• 35:16Speaker 05

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• 36:35Josh Horowitz?

  We joke about Tana, we all love all of Chris's movies. But you know, like, there's the joke about, like, saying that, I don't actually really understand what happened to Tana.

• 36:42Speaker 02

  Probably what didn't happen was, I think, Rob himself went, "I don't really know. I don't think I understand the movie."

• 36:47Josh Horowitz?

  Which, I think I believe, like, I don't know.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  I completely believe it, by the way, yeah, I completely believe it.

• 36:52Josh Horowitz?

  So when you're doing scenes with Rob, did he ever say out loud in your presence?

• 36:55Speaker 02

  No.

• 36:56Josh Horowitz?

  No, he kept it to himself.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  No, no, no, yeah. But I think, I mean, there is a story that at one point he turned to John David and went, "Am I dead?" or, you know?

• 37:04Josh Horowitz?

  Just need a face cast.

• 37:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it's um, I I think I would dare dare I say, I think Tenet is one of his underrated movies.

• 37:13Josh Horowitz?

  Absolutely.

• 37:13Speaker 02

  Really, it's, you know, what I get with Chris is I just, he he doesn't, he doesn't stop with the ambition.

• 37:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:22Speaker 02

  He just wants to keep pushing it and keep pushing it and and and what's the next thing, what's the next thing we can do to to elevate the cinematic experience, to to put a marker down in cinematic history, you know, so. I remember the first time I watched Tenet and, you know, I didn't know how they were going to achieve all of the inversion and all that sort of stuff, like, it still does something to me when I watch clips from it, or if it comes up and I just go like, this is, it does make weird to my brain.

• 37:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:51Speaker 02

  When I'm watching it, more than any sort of CGI will ever do.

• 37:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:55Speaker 02

  Something about watching, it it is just, it's in reverse, it's. And it's because I think he got them to flip the camera, so it was being filmed in reverse, as it were.

• 38:05Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 38:06Speaker 02

  It wasn't, it's not like he's CGI'd it backwards either, there's something, and he does, he seems to understand some sort of alchemy.

• 38:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right. The secret of the universe lies in Tenet, perhaps.

• 38:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, or just in Chris's brain, I don't know, yeah, yeah.

• 38:20Josh Horowitz?

  So then you get invited back to the party. It's one thing to get the the shot one time, then you now you're officially, oh, wait, I'm part of the troupe.

• 38:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:25Josh Horowitz?

  Like, I'm back for The Odyssey, I I'll I'll be seeing it in a couple of days, I'm sure, have you seen it yet?

• 38:30Speaker 02

  I wonder if we're gonna be at the same screening.

• 38:32Josh Horowitz?

  There you go, so, um, so to get that opportunity, I know I've talked to a bunch of the actors that have been in it, and everybody says, like, this is kind of a once in a lifetime experience, um. Practical sets, practical effects as when possible, giant, just like, you know, the the scores of extras. Does everybody kind of like share in that? Do you feel that like palpably among the cast and crew, like, we're we're in it, like, let's enjoy this, guys?

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 39:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:01Speaker 02

  Because the context we were in were just mind boggling.

• 39:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  No one can, you know, I think Matt's been telling this story, but I, at one point we were shooting in Iceland. And we were doing night shoots in Iceland during this time of year, where there is no night in Iceland. But there's that weird twilight, and when people watch the movie, they'll know why we're there. But it's, we were, it was like two AM. We're in this weird twilight, it's raining sideways, and it's whatever temperature, we're freezing.

• 39:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  And they hand us our lunch in these little foil dishes and we're just sort of sideways raining, just sort of eating lunch. And happily doing it, by the way.

• 39:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:44Speaker 02

  You know, and Matt really sets the example, you know, it was an example of how to be number one on a movie. I've never seen anyone work harder, and not a word of complaint, I never heard a word of complaint. I never heard him go, ugh.

• 39:56Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  At any point over six months. And so you're just like getting on with it. And I, I asked him at one point, I was like, Matt, is this the hardest conditions you've ever worked in? And he was like, I don't know, man, if there was anything harder, you were probably there with me. You know, so it was, it was just that sort of thing. But it was also just the biggest privilege.

• 40:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  To, to get to go to these places and shoot the way we were shooting in situ, in camera, it was a thrill.

• 40:24Josh Horowitz?

  Do you like the IMAX cameras, the technology, does it affect performance? Like, are you the kind of actor that like wants to know your framing, or is it sort of, no?

• 40:32Speaker 02

  No, and especially when you work with someone like Chris, you know, there is precision to the framing, but there's also, he leaves like a slight window of

• 40:42Speaker 02

  where you can play with it and see where you might end up. And him and Hoyt are sort of working that way where they, they like to sort of leave the slight things open to chance.

• 40:50Josh Horowitz?

  It's just so probably antithetical to what people probably imagine like Chris Nolan's set would be like. It's like, again, actors love him, like love that as big as it is, it feels pretty intimate, I know.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  There's no video village, right? He has a monitor, Hoyt has a monitor, and Gerke, a script supervisor, had a monitor, that's it. So no one else is, is monitoring what's going on. And you just have to be ready, everyone's ready, because at any point he might go, okay, we're shooting over here, we're shooting over here.

• 41:22Speaker 02

  And it recreates a sort of, you know, it's been said before, a sort of indie mentality and indie ethic. But with like him with the biggest possible scale, so it's yeah.

• 41:32Josh Horowitz?

  We should give some love to Noah Holmes three. Yeah, a chance to have a nearly did the podcast last night. I made her cry. It wasn't my fault. Really stranger things. I won't make you cry. So I'm with ten minutes left. We'll see what happens.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  What happened?

• 41:44Josh Horowitz?

  We were talking about stranger things. I showed her it was very emotional.

• 41:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 41:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. So, okay. Having someone like Millie at the top of the call sheet. I mean, fascinating. She's an amazing like, yes, twenty two years old. Has had a decade plus of experience and yet. Like good head on her shoulders. Just like, talk to me a little about having someone like Millie as the number one.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  As an actor, as an actress, she's. She's fantastic. We all know that. And she comes to work prepared and ready to do the work. But, you know, what she been working with her on a movie like in other homes, where she is also producer.

• 42:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  She also feels that responsibility keenly. She cares about not just the film and making the film the best it can be and. And caring about that, but she cares about everyone's experience.

• 42:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:34Speaker 02

  She wanted it to be a really nice set, a nice place for people to come to work every day, where we will have fun. And we did, you know, and that's not to say she didn't also. You know, fight her corner when she believed in something being the way it should be and that sort of thing. And that's great. But she does it respectfully and and does it in a way that she trusts in. The relationship she's built with Philip, for example, or with our producers, you know, it's all very.

• 43:03Speaker 02

  Professional. And I just forget the fact that she's that young. I know. You know, she it's. Who knows where her career is going to go because it's just what she's built. And what she's crafted with such maturity at such a young age. I just find it really, really admirable and amazing.

• 43:20Josh Horowitz?

  I can I can always tell the actors that I I'm good to respect it and like as you've been being by the ones that talk about the crew as much as they do.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:27Josh Horowitz?

  That yeah, realize it's. Yes, we're the the face of this production, but this is a true collaborative.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  You could do nothing gets done without them, you know, you know, nothing gets done if they're not happy, if they're not. You know, well looked after. So, yeah.

• 43:40Josh Horowitz?

  So this one, is it odd to kind of like sign on for something where you're like the glorified like Easter egg for in the first film like, hopefully we get there.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:50Josh Horowitz?

  As Dr. Watson, like, I would imagine that's part of the deal. It's like, right, like, sign on for Noah Holmes two, fingers crossed, plans are afoot.

• 43:57Speaker 02

  And there was, you know, two years after, I was kind of like, oh, we.

• 44:00Josh Horowitz?

  So.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  Or am I gonna be like the briefest Watson in history? Like, what's going on?

• 44:04Josh Horowitz?

  Footnote in Watson history.

• 44:05Speaker 02

  But it's what happens when you have like, you know, Millie, she's busy, she has projects she wants to get off the ground and stranger things to commit to and all that sort of stuff. Henry's got everything that he's got going on. So, you know, it wasn't easy to pull it all together. And I'm just really glad that we did because everyone wanted it, you know? Um, obviously the audience wanted it, but also everyone wanted to tell this story.

• 44:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:24Speaker 02

  And, um, and I'm really excited that we did because I think it's really special.

• 44:28Josh Horowitz?

  Um, let's tease a little bit of the X-Files. I know you can't see much of anything, but this is like, high on my radar, high on many people's radar, to say the least. Cougar, you, Danielle Deadwiler. Have you shot it now? Have you shot the pilot?

• 44:42Speaker 02

  We shot the pilot.

• 44:43Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Does it feel like a pilot, a film? I mean, Cougar's directing, you have an Oscar winning DP.

• 44:51Speaker 02

  It was very special. That's all I'll say. It was very, very special. And we await a decision, of course, but, um, I, all I can tell you is I had an incredible time.

• 45:05Josh Horowitz?

  Is that a meaningful show for you? I know it's a meaningful, I've talked to Ryan about the show.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  It was. I mean, look, maybe not as meaningful it is as it is for people who really dived into it or lived it at the time. You know, I think I was uh, maybe three or so when it first started. So a little young to be watching it. I seem to remember my mom sort of telling me things that she would like to tell me stories about. I watched a show and this thing happened and I'd be like, oh, it's weird.

• 45:32Josh Horowitz?

  She was prepping you. She's like.

• 45:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, she knew. She believed in me. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's, you, you really do come to understand the, the responsibility of it.

• 45:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  And the, the power of it as a, as a, as a sort of world. So.

• 45:50Josh Horowitz?

  I, I'm, I'm just curious, like, for a show that was, you know, the motto was the truth is out there in twenty twenty six, when truth is under fire, what does truth even mean? Does truth even value nowadays? Is it safe to say that is addressed that like we are living in a, it's obviously a contemporary show that feels of its time?

• 46:10Speaker 02

  Ryan and his whole team and myself and Danielle were all very aligned in that way that we, we love depth. We love everything to have a meaningful context and we, you know, much the same as a lot of great filmmakers like Chris, Ryan, he, he, he believes that the audience is intelligent.

• 46:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:35Speaker 02

  And he wants to give them as much richness of tapestry as he can. So, um, yeah, the people, hopefully people will see it.

• 46:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 46:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:45Josh Horowitz?

  Are you the skeptic or the believer?

• 46:47Speaker 02

  We actually, so there was a, in the production office, there was a board, uh, and, and Ryan had had everyone, uh, take a Polaroid of themselves. And then there was a believer or skeptic on the wall.

• 46:58Josh Horowitz?

  And where did you fall in?

• 46:59Speaker 02

  I put myself in believer, but I think I'm a believer, maybe like one time out of 10.

• 47:04Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 47:05Speaker 02

  In that, you know, I sometimes listen to these like podcasts where people recount stories about strange things that have happened to them and all this sort of thing. And most of the time I'm like, I could explain that to you immediately. Like, you know, you, you, you were just like tired while driving or you, you know?

• 47:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  But every now and then there's a story where you go, that's freaky.

• 47:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  That I can't explain to you. And that always makes me go, there is something out there, isn't there?

• 47:30Josh Horowitz?

  The right man for this job, apparently, though.

• 47:32Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 47:33Josh Horowitz?

  And is the character skeptic or believer?

• 47:37Josh Horowitz?

  We'll see. TBD. We'll talk about that at the right time. Don't worry.

• 47:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:41Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. We unhappy, sad, confused with the profoundly random questionnaire. You ready for this?

• 47:45Speaker 02

  Can't wait.

• 47:46Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Are you a dog or a cat person?

• 47:50Speaker 02

  Cat.

• 47:50Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 47:51Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Do you collect anything?

• 47:55Speaker 02

  Um.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  I guess currently cameras maybe.

• 48:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:01Speaker 02

  Not that I have that many, but I do.

• 48:02Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. And the tritus of your children, that's also.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  And that.

• 48:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:06Speaker 02

  And that.

• 48:07Josh Horowitz?

  Favorite video game of all time?

• 48:10Speaker 02

  Uh, Spider-Man two, the uh, the Tobey Maguire one. Yeah.

• 48:15Josh Horowitz?

  Very nice.

• 48:16Speaker 02

  That was an era.

• 48:18Josh Horowitz?

  That means.

• 48:18Speaker 02

  That or Mario Kart Double Dash.

• 48:21Josh Horowitz?

  Did the franchise boost or hinder your comic book availability, uh, comic book movie availability?

• 48:27Speaker 02

  They haven't come calling yet, so let's see.

• 48:30Josh Horowitz?

  They'll come around, they'll come around.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:32Josh Horowitz?

  I apologize, this is the Koda Johnson memorial question. She asked me this, I'm contractually obligated.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 48:36Josh Horowitz?

  Everybody, uh, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 48:41Speaker 02

  Bee in my butt, yeah.

• 48:42Josh Horowitz?

  That's the correct answer. Uh, what's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 48:45Speaker 02

  My kids.

• 48:47Josh Horowitz?

  Last actor you were mistaken for?

• 48:51Speaker 02

  I mean, you know.

• 48:54Speaker 02

  Probably Dev, maybe.

• 48:57Josh Horowitz?

  Just adding insult to injury, really.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  It's a privilege to, to be, you know, if people go, oh, I think you're, you know, but it's, it's, you know.

• 49:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Uh, worst voted director has ever given you?

• 49:08Speaker 02

  Worst note?

• 49:09Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  Uh, there was a director once on EastEnders who, who I tried to, who didn't quite understand dry humor. And so I was, there was something like, there was a noise upstairs and I was like, oh, what's that? Uh, I was like, that doesn't sound great. Um, and he was like, no, you should do it like this. Oh, that doesn't sound great.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  I remember going.

• 49:34Josh Horowitz?

  Maybe you stick on your side of it.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  No.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  I was sixteen years old, just going, that's, no.

• 49:41Josh Horowitz?

  That doesn't sound great. Um, can I do a little more subtle?

• 49:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, it wasn't great.

• 49:47Josh Horowitz?

  Um, in the spirit of happy, say confused, an actor who always makes you happy. You see them on screen, you're in a better mood.

• 49:53Speaker 02

  Oh, um, Steve Carell. Yeah, of course.

• 49:59Josh Horowitz?

  A movie that makes you sad?

• 50:02Speaker 02

  Um, there's a movie called Song of the Sea. It's an animated movie.

• 50:06Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 50:06Speaker 02

  And it, it basically made me sob. Yeah.

• 50:09Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. And finally, a food that makes you confused. You don't get it?

• 50:14Speaker 02

  There is a fruit. And I, they made me tr- try it once on, on live TV.

• 50:20Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, no.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  I wanna say it's called durian fruit.

• 50:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 50:24Speaker 02

  And it's like, it's horrific.

• 50:27Josh Horowitz?

  Didn't agree with you, no?

• 50:28Speaker 02

  I think it's durian fruit. I hope I'm not getting that wrong, but it was awful.

• 50:34Josh Horowitz?

  You just went to a place.

• 50:35Speaker 02

  And I don't, I'm like, this isn't food, surely?

• 50:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  This isn't edible. You can't eat this.

• 50:40Josh Horowitz?

  This is a mistake.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  This is a plant going, don't eat me.

• 50:44Josh Horowitz?

  Right. And we are ignoring it.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. And we're choosing to go.

• 50:47Josh Horowitz?

  Listen to the durian.

• 50:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. Don't do it.

• 50:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 50:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:51Josh Horowitz?

  Is that what, when you have to cry in a scene, you're thinking of the time you had to eat durian fruit?

• 50:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 50:56Josh Horowitz?

  Like, is he thinking about, like, losing a loved one? Nope. It's the time he ate a bad fruit on live TV.

• 51:01Speaker 02

  I didn't actually. In the end, I was like, I can't actually do this. This is stupid.

• 51:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, wise. Yeah, you were wise enough to do Happy, Sad, Confused today.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  Yes. A privilege, man. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

• 51:11Josh Horowitz?

  For me. Congratulations on all the success. Um, and yeah, I'll see you in like four days. So don't get, don't, don't worry. This continues.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  It'll be okay. Yeah.

• 51:19Josh Horowitz?

  It's gonna be okay.

• 51:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, can't wait.

• 51:20Josh Horowitz?

  All right. Appreciate it. Thank you so much.

• 51:24Speaker 03

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't supposed to do this by Josh.

• 51:42Speaker 07

  Hi, I'm Whitney. And I'm Katie. And we're the hosts of True Crime Campfire. We set out to make a true crime podcast we'd wanna listen to. We get right to the story. We don't do a lot of extra talking, and when we do, it's usually to roast the short hairs off of some loser murderer or scammer. You'll laugh, but only at the people who deserve it. Like, which serial killer would you most like to shove into a locker? BTK and his awful poetry. Dude got caught 'cause he didn't understand what a floppy disk was. We look for the stranger-than-fiction stories, like the case of Patty James, a killer catfish before the internet was even a thing. Or Howard Walmsley, a sentient wad of damp laundry who convinced his town he'd won the lottery, fleeced local businesses out of thousands, and then became a romance scammer.

• 52:27Speaker 07

  We've covered tons of cases you've never heard of: cults, scammers, killers. So come find your next great binge. Listen to True Crime Campfire on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Friday.