Episode 351 - Ryan Hammons Reincarnation | Old Hollywood Star Reborn

Step into one of the most fascinating reincarnation cases ever recorded: a four-year-old boy in Oklahoma who vividly remembers life as an Old Hollywood tap dancer turned talent agent. Dozens of his memories later proved uncannily accurate — Broadway and film performances, a Beverly Hills home, glamorous nights with Rita Hayworth — and together they raise striking questions about memory, identity, and the paranormal in a way that even skeptics struggle to dismiss. Plus, Sabrina shares her own unsettling experience after tempting the spirits of Greyfriars Kirkyard. Watch the video version here. Have ghost stories of your own? E-mail them to us at [email protected] New Episodes are released every Thursday and Sunday at 12am PST/3am EST (the witching hour, of course). Corinne and Sabrina hand select a couple of paranormal encounters from our inbox to read in each episode, from demons, to cryptids, to aliens, to creepy kids... the list goes on and on. If you have a story of your own that you'd like us to share on an upcoming episode, we invite you to email them to us! If you enjoy our show, please consider joining our Patreon, rating and reviewing on iTunes & Spotify and following us on social media! Youtube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Discord. Edited by Jaimi Ryan and produced by Emma Leventer and Jaimi Ryan, original music by Arms Akimbo! Disclaimer: the use of white sage and smudging is a closed practice. If you’re looking to cleanse your space, here are some great alternatives! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm so excited. I'm getting my whole body MRI scan from Prenuvo in a couple of weeks.

• 0:05Corinne Vien?

  It's honestly so important. It's like one of those things where getting older and aging has provided me so many anxieties about like what's going on.

• 0:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I recently had some medical issues in my family and everyone in my family is like, let's just do everything we can to get ahead and take our own health into our own hands. Prenuvo's whole body scan is a radiation-free MRI designed to help provide a detailed, non-invasive look at your body in under an hour, and it helps evaluate across major organs and systems, including the brain, spine, abdomen, pelvis, and more. Prenuvo's whole body scan can help detect many cancers, aneurysms, and hundreds of other conditions. And they have memberships that bundle MRI scans, blood panels, and a personalized results review to track your health year after year.

• 0:47Corinne Vien?

  To learn more about Prenuvo and get $300 off your whole body MRI, go to prenuvo.com/tgog and use code TGOG. That's P-R-E-N-U-V-O.com/tgog. Terms and conditions apply.

• 1:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Receive $300 off Prenuvo whole body scans and executive and comprehensive memberships through January 31st. For full details, visit Prenuvo's website to read their terms and conditions and privacy notice. Prenuvo gifted me a whole body scan. A Prenuvo scan is a screening service, not diagnostic. Diagnosis and treatment are determined by your healthcare provider.

• 1:18Speaker 02

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• 2:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas. Everywhere you.

• 2:16Corinne Vien?

  Wow, that was angelic.

• 2:19Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Thank you.

• 2:19Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my gosh, Sabrina.

• 2:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I just got so nervous.

• 2:21Corinne Vien?

  Did you become a singer? Like, no, genuinely, I'm not. I'm not yanking your chain. That sounded really good.

• 2:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Thank you. That's really nice. Now I'm really self-conscious.

• 2:31Corinne Vien?

  I shouldn't have made a face so you would have kept going. That feels like suddenly you have like a born secret talent that I'm discovering.

• 2:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is the thing is I'm not a terrible singer, but I'm only good at certain things and then I'm not good at knowing when to come in.

• 2:50Corinne Vien?

  That's so funny. I like that.

• 2:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I really don't.

• 2:54Corinne Vien?

  So you're like a comedy singer.

• 2:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sure.

• 2:56Corinne Vien?

  The new Bo Burnham.

• 2:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm hilarious. And we are?

• 2:59Corinne Vien?

  Two girls, one ghost.

• 3:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Two girls, one ghost. We are your ghostesses. I am Sabrina. I almost said you are Corinne. Anyway, that's Corinne. I'm Sabrina.

• 3:11Corinne Vien?

  You just got back from a lovely spooky city.

• 3:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  To share with you.

• 3:16Corinne Vien?

  Across the pond.

• 3:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So much to share with you, all of you. You want to hear the story about how I got haunted in Edinburgh, Scotland?

• 3:24Corinne Vien?

  Yes, which you already told on Patreon and I feel like everyone was like, you were focused on telling the story, but I got to watch people's faces on the video as you were telling the story and the amount of people that were just like jaw dropped or just like shaking their heads, like, no, Sabrina, no.

• 3:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, because as, I will tell it, but there's so much of this and I'm like, oh, Corinne would be so disappointed in me. Okay, so as context, I went to Edinburgh, Scotland.

• 3:51Corinne Vien?

  I'm just glad I wasn't there.

• 3:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it didn't happen to you. So I went to Edinburgh, Scotland, and it was amazing. So much fun. I do have to recommend the place that I stayed real quick because 33 Castle Terrace. You know, like when you travel places and you want to feel like you live there? But sometimes when you stay in a hotel, you don't feel like you live there.

• 4:10Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 4:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This place, I felt like I had my own apartment in Edinburgh.

• 4:15Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my gosh, so nice.

• 4:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That I was like, maybe I do want to live here. It was so nice.

• 4:20Corinne Vien?

  You used to talk about doing. Some time over there.

• 4:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But right now in my life, after all the travel and like how busy we've been for the last like

• 4:29Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 4:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Year, I'm like, I have not spent a full week at home.

• 4:33Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 4:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Since before August.

• 4:35Corinne Vien?

  Which is wild. Maybe you could do like a mini snowbird where it's like every year for the month of September or something.

• 4:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 4:43Corinne Vien?

  You go to Scotland.

• 4:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'd have to be able to take Leo with me. But anyway, okay, so I obviously booked ghost tours and I booked, I booked this one with the company, City of the Dead. I highly recommend it. It is one of the best ghost tours I've ever been on because they really focus on the ghost stories. They take you, it's so immersive, but it's so cinematic too. And not cheesy cinematic, just the storytelling.

• 5:05Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 5:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The, the guide was next level.

• 5:10Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 5:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 5:11Corinne Vien?

  I love that because I do feel like we love going on ghost tours, but ghost tours can be a similar thing to just like seeking out a random psychic or something where it's just like.

• 5:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. It could be cheesy or it could be phony, but this felt so, and it was clear, shout out to Sarah, who was my tour guide. It's so clear that she was so immersed and curious and interested in Edinburgh history that she had gone and done her own research to bring in her own anecdotes into the stories. Anyway, that being said, I did the double dead tour, which you go through the Edinburgh vaults, which are infamously haunted. And then you double decker. No, you just, you double it up. You double it up and you go over to the other most haunted place in Edinburgh, Greyfriars Kirkyard.

• 5:59Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, which we did an episode on and I felt we referenced it a few times.

• 6:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And it haunted me.

• 6:04Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, that's where you went wrong.

• 6:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And that's where I, where my grave mistakes.

• 6:08Corinne Vien?

  Grave mistakes.

• 6:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wow. It was a grave mistake.

• 6:15Corinne Vien?

  Today, Sabrina.

• 6:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I just had my first sip of coffee on camera. You saw it happen. Let me take my second. Watch out, everyone.

• 6:22Corinne Vien?

  God.

• 6:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay. So then, yes, we went over to Greyfriars Kirkyard second. Nothing really happened on the tour. When we went into the vaults. A girl had to leave. She got instantly got lightheaded and had to leave. They escorted her out. We go through the vaults. And I don't think we went to the same vaults that other tours go to because there's one vault that people kept being like, oh, my God, did you step inside the witch's circle? And we didn't go into a vault that had a witch's circle.

• 6:48Corinne Vien?

  Oh.

• 6:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 6:49Corinne Vien?

  I wonder, what is the witch's circle?

• 6:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think we've read a listener's story about it before where there's like all these candles and you're not supposed to step inside.

• 6:56Corinne Vien?

  Oh, we read this recently, didn't we?

• 6:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 6:58Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, okay. It's coming back.

• 6:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But so that we didn't, because there's a lot of different vaults in the Edinburgh vaults. Our tour went into like three of, how many? I don't know. And then we walk over to Greg Fire's Kirk Yard. We do the whole thing. And interesting fact, Bloody Mackenzie's mausoleum is not the one that's haunted. The hauntings occurred once someone did break into Bloody Mackenzie's mausoleum. But the one that is haunted is actually behind a locked gate that is now locked because of all the hauntings that were happening and how many people were trying to like go see it.

• 7:29Corinne Vien?

  Instigate and yeah.

• 7:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 7:31Corinne Vien?

  Summon the dead.

• 7:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That being said, Bloody Mackenzie's mausoleum does cause hauntings and I can attest to it personally. So we're walking around, we're getting all these great ghost stories. And we're wrapping up the tour. And our tour guide's like, oh, let's just go stop by Bloody Mackenzie's mausoleum. There was another group finishing up. We go over there and she's talking about it and she goes, does anyone want to play a game? No hesitation, the word sure comes out of my mouth.

• 7:59Corinne Vien?

  Casual.

• 7:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Alone too. Oh, I'm on this tour completely alone. I know no one. I'm staying in Edinburgh by myself. Yeah, I have to go to bed by myself, like solo. And I'd say sure. And she like looks at me and she's like, okay, come on up here. And she hands me a flashlight and she says, shine this through the grates and look inside the mausoleum. And then repeat after me. The first word she says is repeat Bloody Mackenzie three times. And before I even say it, I like, in my head, the first thought I have is, oh, God, Corinne's gonna be so mad at me. And then the second is, should I really be doing this? And the third thought is, well, it's too late. I'm ready here. I gotta give the people a show.

• 8:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because there's like 25 other people on the tour.

• 8:45Corinne Vien?

  It feels awkward to back out.

• 8:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, I'm not gonna be like chicken. I'm not chicken shit.

• 8:50Corinne Vien?

  I am.

• 8:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Peer pressure is real. Actually, no one was pressuring me.

• 8:54Corinne Vien?

  But you're performing

• 8:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  An audience is real.

• 8:56Corinne Vien?

  Against the expectations you believed others had for you, these strangers.

• 9:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  These strangers.

• 9:01Corinne Vien?

  Amongst you.

• 9:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And so then

• 9:04Corinne Vien?

  You must please the people.

• 9:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Of course. I'm a jester. I'm a performer. So in my head, I'm like, okay, this is a dumb idea. But I have good intentions. So as I'm saying, I'm repeating it over and over. As I'm saying it, I'm in my head saying, I don't mean this. Ha ha. It's a joke. Like, good intentions. Nope. Like, no negative entities can come with me. You know, I'm setting my boundaries while I'm saying the things that are very much anti-my boundaries. And I basically out loud say this poem that's like a game that people do to invite Bloody Mackenzie, his spirit, to come out of the mausoleum and haunt you. It's like, show yourself. It literally is Bloody Mary.

• 9:44Corinne Vien?

  Right.

• 9:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  With Bloody Mackenzie. Nothing happens in the moment. Totally fine. The tour ends. Sarah's like, good luck, Sabrina. Then two girls come up to me and they're like, are you Sabrina from Two Girls One Ghost? They had been on the tour with me the entire time. Shout out to the band Spanish Love Songs. They were on tour.

• 10:04Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 10:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And stopped in Edinburgh and did some spooky things. Happened to be on the same tour. And I loved on Campfire Stories. Everyone's like, those people were probably like, is that Sabrina from Two Girls One Ghost? And then I went up to do the Bloody Mackenzie.

• 10:17Corinne Vien?

  Volunteers to get like possessed.

• 10:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, that's definitely.

• 10:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I think I said to them, I was like, Corinne's gonna be so mad that I just did that.

• 10:29Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my gosh. Because you're tempting fate.

• 10:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I tempted fate. So

• 10:33Corinne Vien?

  And like, at a place has a reputation. It's not just like, oh, like some random New Hampshire cemetery that like five locals, not to like diss on this, but like five locals had something happen.

• 10:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is arguably the dumbest thing I've ever done.

• 10:46Corinne Vien?

  Yes.

• 10:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Paranormally. I've done a lot of other dumb things in life. But paranormal, uh, yes. Nothing happens. I'm totally fine. I'm walking home. It's now like 11:30. And again, I'm like just setting intentions like, hey, shake it off. I truly, outside of my hotel room, shook it off. I was like, nothing is welcome. I'm protected by love and light. I set my intentions, all this stuff. Go into my hotel room, turn on Gilmore Girls. I'm good. I fall asleep. Again, like I went to bed like not thinking about it. So I go to sleep and I have a nightmare. And it's like truly a two second nightmare. I'm walking down the streets of what I presume are old Edinburgh, like the the closes.

• 11:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And people are moving out of the way and I get this feeling that down the way, like as people are clearing, there's someone standing staring at me. And when I look, it's this like very, very unsettling scary person, but their faces melty. And they kind of look like haggard and bent over. And even though I can't see their eyes, they are directly staring into my soul.

• 11:52Corinne Vien?

  Which is so creepy.

• 11:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's so unsettling. I wake up and I'm like, nope, didn't like that. Like I out loud said, no, didn't like that. Don't want, you're not welcome here. And it's four fifteen or four twenty, something like that. And I'm like, okay, that was weird, but just a bad dream. I flip over, I lay on my stomach, like literally like flat on the bed. All of my limbs are together. I'm like a needle in a bed. Face in the pillow, trying to fall back to sleep. I'm still very awake. When I start to feel, also keep in mind the covers are completely on me. When I start to feel, hold my coffee. Please. When I start to feel like what are hands around my ankles pulling my legs apart and my legs are actually moving apart.

• 12:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I don't like it. Who would? And I, so I start to like try to move. I cannot move any part of my body. I am fully paralyzed. And this is the first time I've ever had sleep paralysis. So my first thought is I'm having fucking sleep paralysis. Don't like it. And so in my head, I'm saying, no, no, no, no. And I'm finally out loud able to verbally say no. And it stops. And then I instantly like slam my legs back together.

• 13:02Corinne Vien?

  I don't think I remember the detail of you slamming your legs back together.

• 13:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh yeah, because I had been trying to like, the energy of me saying no, no, no, was me also trying to like close my legs.

• 13:10Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 13:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because it does, so when it finally released you, you were able to like bam.

• 13:14Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 13:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Thank God I fully got up and I was like, no.

• 13:20Corinne Vien?

  The people in the room next door are like, that girl traveling solo is crazy.

• 13:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Did you see her on the tour earlier?

• 13:26Corinne Vien?

  Which I did ask you on Campfire Stories, because I was like, oh, my gosh, this seems like an incubus.

• 13:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, like a sexual experience.

• 13:34Corinne Vien?

  But you said that it didn't feel that way.

• 13:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It didn't feel that way. I genuinely think it was whatever it was. I don't necessarily think it was Bloody McKenzie. I think it was probably an entity at the cemetery that was like, you dumb, dumb girl, let me show you what I can do. I think it was just like something it could do, because I was laying on my stomach. So it's not like if, because if I was laying on my back, would I have seen something? And that would have been enough?

• 14:00Corinne Vien?

  Oh, God, I hate that. Ew. My gosh, it's so disturbing.

• 14:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But I was laying on my stomach face down, so I couldn't see anything in the room.

• 14:07Corinne Vien?

  What if it was the guy with the melted face? It seems like it would be, but like if that's how he presented himself in the room, physically there with you. Who do you think it was?

• 14:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think it was just something from the cemetery. But here's the thing is, I never had anything else happen for the rest of the trip. It was totally fine. Nothing else happened.

• 14:23Corinne Vien?

  And you stayed another night in that hotel, right?

• 14:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I stayed multiple other nights.

• 14:26Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 14:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I even was in Edinburgh on Halloween. Nothing happened. It was totally fine. But I understand how entities, or even demonic encounters, or people like the Smarrell family, or the Hinsdale house, like I understand how these entities gain energy and don't even have to do much, because just that one experience, which is probably no more than a two-minute experience in total. I, every night before going to sleep, was scared to fall asleep, because I didn't want that to happen again. And then it would happen, it would pop in my brain, and I'd be like, no, you can't think about this before you're going to bed, because like then it's gonna, you know, you're summoning it.

• 15:05Corinne Vien?

  And then it's hard to not just like repeat it. It's like an intrusive thought, basically.

• 15:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, and it's a scary intrusive thought.

• 15:11Corinne Vien?

  But it's also so scary, because it's like, yeah, it was a two-minute experience, but that thing in two minutes proved that it could be in your dreams, and it could be physically in your room with you.

• 15:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And paralyze me.

• 15:21Corinne Vien?

  Mm-hmm. It was like, I have you everywhere. You can't escape. You're asleep, you're awake, I'm here with you.

• 15:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's not with me anymore.

• 15:28Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, thank God.

• 15:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But yeah, so.

• 15:31Corinne Vien?

  It's just a one-night thing, until the next person plays the game.

• 15:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, so when we say, don't do stupid paranormal things, Sabrina, listen to yourself.

• 15:40Corinne Vien?

  Do you judge me less for my reluctance to play paranormal games after?

• 15:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Would I do it again? Yes.

• 15:48Corinne Vien?

  No. Oh, my gosh.

• 15:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There was like a 12 or 13 year old girl who, I loved her because she dressed very like Blair Waldorf. But she had dragged her dad there and she was jealous that I got to do that game. And she's like, I want to do it now. And the tour guide was like, I don't feel comfortable allowing you to do it.

• 16:09Corinne Vien?

  Like a child.

• 16:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, if you want to stay afterwards with your dad and do it, fine, but I can't approve of this.

• 16:15Corinne Vien?

  Don't let your pre-teens and your teenagers summon the devil.

• 16:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Bloody Mackenzie.

• 16:19Corinne Vien?

  Or Bloody Mackenzie. Jesus.

• 16:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Scariest thing that's happened to me in a very, very long time.

• 16:24Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. So all the listeners can probably, I bet everyone's mouths were agape, just like everyone on Campfire Stories. They're like, what the fuck did you do?

• 16:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  My grave mistake.

• 16:33Corinne Vien?

  At Greyfriars Kirkyard. Damn. Crazy. But otherwise you had a great trip.

• 16:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It was amazing. I loved it. And then I went to York, which we recorded a whole episode while I was there. But that town is my favorite. And I don't love London.

• 16:46Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 16:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I love the sweatshirt I got from London.

• 16:49Corinne Vien?

  Did you get a sweatshirt from each place?

• 16:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Uh, I didn't from York, but I did from Edinburgh and I did from London.

• 16:55Corinne Vien?

  Nice. That's one of Sabrina's things. She buys the sweatshirt like everywhere she is that says the place.

• 17:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'll be in an airport, I'll lay over and I see, they get me. I see the sweatshirt to the name.

• 17:08Corinne Vien?

  Outside of the airport there? No, but are you buying the sweatshirt to indicate you've been physically in the zone?

• 17:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I might need it.

• 17:16Corinne Vien?

  Um, I told you I have a 60 second ghost story. It does not compare to that at all. But I think that there's a spirit of foot in my house.

• 17:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We knew that.

• 17:25Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, but there's like a, like a.

• 17:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  A new one?

• 17:27Corinne Vien?

  Oh, I don't know. I just had two things that happened in the past couple of days. Noah and I were playing with his farm truck and it has a bunch of, like, if you press the different animals, they make different noises. If you press, oh, McDonald, he sings, oh, McDonald. And if you press the smoke stack on the tractor, it will start moving. And Noah knows to do all of that. And so we're like taking turns doing it. And it's between us and Noah is just like pressing on the animals. And then something presses the smoke stack and it starts going. And Noah just like stopped and looked at me like.

• 17:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  How'd that happen?

• 17:57Corinne Vien?

  What? Like, are you seeing this? And then I didn't want to scare him. So it's just like and I like touched old McDonald's so he'd start singing as the tractor went by. And then the next night, when I was in Noah's room, he's sleeping on me and I'm gonna like put him back in his crib. The second the clock turns three AM, the humidifier button keeps getting turned on and off, on and off.

• 18:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, I don't like that.

• 18:24Corinne Vien?

  And it just keeps happening, but it's not like not in a normal rhythm.

• 18:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So it's not like a cadence. Yeah.

• 18:29Corinne Vien?

  Yes. Cause at first I was like, oh, did I accidentally set a timer? Is there like something happening to it?

• 18:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's like something pressing it and then deciding to press it again.

• 18:36Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. No rhyme or reason, but it was pressed on and off probably like eight or nine times. And then last night, this is not related to me, but last night I got a text message from my old roommate, Jill from HR, who also has a young child. She said, I just walked into my living room to turn down the lights at 11 PM. And my daughter's DJ table started going.

• 19:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I love the idea of a DJ ghost. Just like a random DJ who's like going from house to house, being like, let me lay down some beats.

• 19:11Corinne Vien?

  Well, I have, I think, kind of a feel good episode.

• 19:15Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, great way to start off December.

• 19:19Corinne Vien?

  Don't get possessed at Gray Forest Kirk yard like Sabrina and join me for a more positive tale.

• 19:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 19:26Corinne Vien?

  Okay. Marty Martin was a guy with an American dream.

• 19:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's his full name?

• 19:30Corinne Vien?

  Marty Martin. Yeah. Well, it's his, it was like his actor name that he, I'll tell you his full legal name in a second. So Marty Martin, he was born May 19th, 1903 as Morris Kalinsky in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. His parents had recently immigrated to the US from Ukraine. And it was he and his two sisters, one of his sisters died unfortunately in youth. But there they are in America, being raised. And Marty has some big dreams. In the 1920s, Marty moved to New York City and made it on Broadway, tap dancing on stage. So this guy is like, he's got talent. He already is on stage.

• 20:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's a performer.

• 20:08Corinne Vien?

  He's a performer.

• 20:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So he would have done what I did.

• 20:10Corinne Vien?

  Yes. Yeah. And I don't know what his sister did, but I love that his. Surviving sister moved with him to New York City.

• 20:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 20:17Corinne Vien?

  It's like the little siblings go off from Philly to the big, big city to make it. So he makes it in theater, but his dreams go beyond the theater, beyond tap dancing on Broadway, because Marty wants to be a movie star. And this is the era of old Hollywood. This is like the beginning of old Hollywood in films. So he eventually makes his way to Los Angeles. And while tap dancing was a dream that came to fruition, I don't know how easy, but like he made it. Being a Hollywood actor did not come so easily. So his acting career just really never took off. He mostly was an extra in all of the films.

• 20:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's difficult.

• 20:51Corinne Vien?

  It is difficult. But he still had this love for films. And so Marty was like, okay, I need to find a way to make it in Hollywood in another avenue other than being an actor. So he decided to open up his own talent agency, the Marty Martin Agency. And after years of-

• 21:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm such a sicko.

• 21:09Corinne Vien?

  Oh, you thought porn?

• 21:10Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I thought smut films, yeah.

• 21:12Corinne Vien?

  Was porn a thing back then?

• 21:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, for sure. It's always, hasn't it always been? Like, I'm thinking about Jessica Lange in American Horror Stories. Is it, um, whatever the circus one is? And-

• 21:22Corinne Vien?

  Freak show?

• 21:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Freak show. And she's like, it's 1930, Germany. Something wasn't cutting it anymore. And then she like does smut films and they cut off her legs in them. Anyway.

• 21:32Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 21:33Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  No, he, he went talent agency.

• 21:35Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, so he decided to be an agent.

• 21:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is a heartwarming episode, Sabrina.

• 21:41Corinne Vien?

  So I think it did take him a few years to like kind of make his mark in the agency world. But he did soon become pretty successful and wealthy. And he was a man about town, you know, people knew who he was. So he ended up purchasing a large home on Roxbury Drive in Beverly Hills.

• 21:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ooh, fancy.

• 21:57Corinne Vien?

  He had this big swimming pool, so he spent his time swimming in his pool, heading to the beach, schmoozing people in Hollywood over some really good Chinese food that was like his preferred.

• 22:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I love that, over Chinese food.

• 22:08Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. And he also liked to travel. So he traveled a lot back to New York City, which is, I think, you know, where he still had a lot of friends and, and a life there. Uh, but he also sailed on the Queen Mary numerous times. I think it was four times total to visit Paris.

• 22:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's such a flex.

• 22:24Corinne Vien?

  When his sister was living in Paris. So he'd hop on the Queen Mary.

• 22:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  His life sounds dreamy.

• 22:29Corinne Vien?

  Right? Old Hollywood. It really is.

• 22:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 22:32Corinne Vien?

  He had quite a few children, both biological and stepchildren. And I would like to say that he spent time with his children. I'm not so sure if that's true.

• 22:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 22:40Corinne Vien?

  But he was a guy who like romanticized life, right? I feel like- He was tap dancing through life. He was tap dancing through life. In a way, I feel like to make it in Hollywood, you kind of have to romanticize things and just like be okay with constant rejection and just like- Honestly, to make it through life, you kind of have to romanticize things. Totally. So yeah, he romanticized life. He definitely had this idea of like what his life could be like in Hollywood. And he also believed in love. He got married, then he got divorced, then he got married again, and then he got divorced, and then he got married again, and then he got divorced. How many times? And then he got married again. Oh my god. Four marriages? Four marriages. Cause he was a hopeful guy, right? He had big dreams. Didn't work out, it will work out a different time. If you fail, try again.

• 23:22Corinne Vien?

  In Hollywood, in romance, business, marriage, it's the same. Marriage is a business. We are, yeah.

• 23:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm so excited. I'm getting my whole body MRI scan from Prenewvo in a couple of weeks. It's honestly so important. It's like one of those things where getting older and aging has provided me so many anxieties about like what's going on. I recently had some medical issues in my family and everyone in my family is like, let's just do everything we can to get ahead and take our own health into our own hands. Prenewvo's whole body scan is a radiation-free MRI designed to help provide a detailed, non-invasive look at your body in under an hour, and it helps evaluate across major organs and systems, including the brain, spine, abdomen, pelvis, and more. Prenewvo's whole body scan can help detect many cancers, aneurysms, and hundreds of other conditions. And they have memberships that bundle MRI scans, blood panels, and a personalized results

• 24:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  review to track your health year after year. To learn more about Prenewvo and get $300 off your whole body MRI, go to prenewvo.com/tgog and use code TGOG. That's P-R-E-N-U-V-O.com/tgog. Terms and conditions apply. Receive $300 off Prenewvo whole body scans and executive and comprehensive memberships through January 31st. For full details, visit Prenewvo's website to read their terms and conditions and privacy notice. Prenewvo gifted me a whole body scan. A Prenewvo scan is a screening service, not diagnostic. Diagnosis and treatment are determined by your healthcare provider.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  Born from the intensity of a night in the eternal city. Introducing Born in Roma Fragrances by Valentino. Feminine perfume Donna Born in Roma features juicy black currant, central jasmine, soft cashmerin, and warm vanilla. Masculine leaning but unisex Womo has notes of fresh violet leaf, aromatic sage, green vetiver, and mineral salt. Shop holiday gifts at Macy's.com.

• 25:19Corinne Vien?

  Unfortunately for Marty, at just 61 years old, after a battle with leukemia, Marty suffered a cerebral hemorrhage and he passed away.

• 25:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh.

• 25:27Corinne Vien?

  His legacy in old Hollywood left with him at his grave. Until one day, when Marty woke up again.

• 25:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh!

• 25:35Corinne Vien?

  Not in his grave, but in a little boy living in the 21st century.

• 25:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wait, so Marty is among us?

• 25:42Corinne Vien?

  Marty's among us. Marty was born in 2004.

• 25:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Marty's a Gen Z.

• 25:48Corinne Vien?

  Marty isn't even Gen Z, what's the one below it? I guess it's Gen Z. You're right, you're right.

• 25:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, Gen Z.

• 25:53Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 25:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like, alpha sounds scary.

• 25:55Corinne Vien?

  Ugh. We should be scared of them.

• 25:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 25:59Corinne Vien?

  Millennials are like-

• 26:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We're becoming such, like, old. We're becoming boomers.

• 26:03Corinne Vien?

  No, no, no, because boomers are the ones, like, no offense to boomers. Our, we know a lot of boomers. Our parents are boomers and stuff. But I feel like boomers are the ones that are like, millennials, like, you know, they find a problem with the other generations. Millennials are the generation that fold. And we're just like, afraid of every other generation.

• 26:22Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We'll do whatever you want us to do!

• 26:22Corinne Vien?

  Just leave us alone!

• 26:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We won't answer our doors, and we're gonna get bullied by other generations.

• 26:28Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, you wanna say that we're idiots. Okay, we're idiots. Now stop talking to me.

• 26:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We're cringe.

• 26:32Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, I know. I feel like we just take it. Millennials take it. We don't fight for ourselves. We've been through too much. Okay, so Marty Martin was born now, once more, in 2004, as Ryan Hammonds, a young boy from Oklahoma who, around age four, started telling his mom that he believed he used to be someone else.

• 26:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We haven't done a good reincarnation episode in so long.

• 26:57Corinne Vien?

  I know, and I had this slated for sometime next year, but I was like, I gotta bring it. I gotta bring it up.

• 27:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is a good into the holidays, holiday season.

• 27:05Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, it is.

• 27:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because I have a scary story next week.

• 27:10Corinne Vien?

  But in a way, this is kind of like a miracle, you know? It is. It is feel good. It is. There's something Christmasy about it. Okay, so he said that he believed he was someone else, someone with a glamorous life in old Hollywood, with a different family and a death that he remembered vividly. Oh. This is one of the world's most widely studied modern cases of potential reincarnation memory. And no matter what your belief system is, Ryan's story has a way of leaving people feeling befuddled. He remembers a lot of facts, and I'm actually gonna read a good amount of them. So, this one's for the skeptics. Let us know how you feel. How do you? Yeah. How do you explain this? No, but I wrote, this one's for the skeptics, one for people looking for belief in something more,

• 27:54Corinne Vien?

  or just to experience the joy and wonder of getting lost in a story that feels so miraculous and so otherworldly. My coffee just tasted like Chinese food, and I think it's because like I mentally am now thinking about Chinese food that I... That feels like a superpower, like a secret talent. But I didn't like it. Oh. Like, I didn't want my coffee to taste like Chinese food. So Ryan Hammond was a happy, ordinary kid growing up in Oklahoma. Nothing unusual in the beginning of his life. No Hollywood connections, no obsession with old movies, nothing that could possibly indicate the direction in which Ryan's memories would start to unfold. Plus Marty Martin's not famous by any means. Like, I've never heard of Marty Martin before this. So it's not like, oh, he saw James Dean on TV and was like, oh, that was me in a past life. Exactly. Yeah. He was an extra.

• 28:39Corinne Vien?

  He was in like a couple of movies. A tap dancer on Broadway. And then otherwise, he just was an agent. Right. You know, like, he wasn't, there's not films about this guy. Right. So Ryan's parents were middle-class, they were religious, they were very grounded. It seemed by the description of them that they were most likely not listeners of Two Girls, One Ghost, nor seeking out paranormal stories like we share. But just after turning four years old, Ryan began waking up in the middle of the night with these really intense nightmares. Each night, he would start to like dread going to sleep. It was really tough for him. And then he'd wake up just like crying and and telling his mom, he has a secret to tell her. But she can't tell anyone. And he's like, you can't even tell dad, okay?

• 29:21Corinne Vien?

  She's like, okay. And Ryan says, I think I used to be somebody else. And he's four.

• 29:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's four, which is also the age that people, a lot of children.

• 29:32Corinne Vien?

  Have these memories.

• 29:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 29:33Corinne Vien?

  Yeah. Every night, Ryan started to tell his mom the stories, more and more memories that he had. Memories from his past. And his mom said that it basically felt like living with someone with Alzheimer's, like when sundowners comes. Because she said every night around bath time and bedtime, he suddenly would just like, it wasn't like a trance. It was just like he was overwhelmed and overcome with all these new memories. It was like a whole nother life was flooding him.

• 30:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It is wild. I mean, could you imagine being conscious of your past life, but being stuck in the body of a child? Where you don't have autonomy, you don't have the ability to be who you think you are.

• 30:13Corinne Vien?

  Right. And where you were used to living, Los Angeles or New York City, now you're in Oklahoma, like even your your scenery around you is just so different. From what you were used to. Yeah. So very scary. So as he would take a bath and his mom would like get him ready for bed. This was something that she would openly and like willingly participate in. She would ask him about his memories. They would talk about it. It seemed to help him. And other people might think that this is just like a childhood imagination, right? Like he's really getting creative with these stories. He's going to be a great storyteller. But for Ryan's mom, she was like, I knew right away that this was different. Because his language, like his vocabulary would change when he was telling these stories.

• 30:55Corinne Vien?

  He would cry. He would say he wanted to go back home, meaning Hollywood. A place which he'd never been, by the way.

• 31:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 31:02Corinne Vien?

  And then he kept adding really specific details. And this went on for years, like four years.

• 31:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Till he was eight.

• 31:09Corinne Vien?

  Till he was eight, around eight. Yeah.

• 31:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, sorry. I know that the story will continue, but do you think he will meet one of his past wives from his past life in this life? And it will be like their chance, their chance to like actually fully.

• 31:23Corinne Vien?

  Oh, interesting.

• 31:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Be together forever.

• 31:25Corinne Vien?

  I don't know.

• 31:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It will work this time?

• 31:28Corinne Vien?

  Maybe. Part of me was like, well, like, what, was it a horrible marriage? I don't want them to have to like. Well, he had four to pick from. I mean, like, none of them were good. I don't know. That's true. I don't want to wish that. I don't know details about their True. romantic relationships. I won't wish that upon Ryan, who I wish him happiness. Is only, how old is he now? Twenty. He's twenty one. Congratulations. He has a shot.

• 31:53Corinne Vien?

  I'll just send a bottle of whiskey to Ryan Hammond. Okay, so this is going on for years. He keeps recalling these memories. His mom is writing them down, but he just keeps like coming up more and more specific memories. So a few things he said, the Hollywood home he asked to return to, it had a street name. He remembered it had the word rock in it, which if you remember Marty Martin Roxbury. Roxbury Drive. Wow. He talked about dancing on Broadway in the 1920s. He spoke about traveling the world. He said he owned a big house with a swimming pool. He remembered his time working in the film industry, acting alongside Mae West. So it's like literally every detail. Mm hmm. Drinking with Rita Hayworth. What a flex, drinking with Rita Hayworth.

• 32:36Corinne Vien?

  Right. And then there were a couple of memories where it was like talking about that Mary girl, which was like Marilyn Monroe and about how like you, no one could get close to her because she was so popular. Everyone was talking to her and like And also, who was she really? Could you really get close to the real Marilyn? Right. And then he was trying to talk to her one time and he like nearly got beat up. And it was just like all this other stuff. Then he talked about his other mama. He talked about the three children he had. Oh. He said when he died, his heart exploded, which, you know, like he, his heart didn't actually explode. But in a way, like When you die, yeah. His brain had an explosion, basically, that stopped his heart. And these were just some of the random bits that he shared. I'll share a lot more soon.

• 33:18Corinne Vien?

  But this was just so far beyond a child's imagination, creating and crafting a story. Because as he told these memories, his mom was like, he was so grief filled. Like it was, it was not just like some random. Account like you could feel that his soul was feeling it. And so Ryan's parents are not sure what to do and Ryan's dad, by the way, is a police officer. And he was like, I have investigated and interrogated so many people, right? In my line of work. And he was like, obviously Ryan's my kid, so I want to believe him.

• 33:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So I can tell my son is telling the truth.

• 33:48Corinne Vien?

  Right. Yeah. So he was like, you know, like you want to believe your kid by default. He's like, but the way that he tells it, that his body language, the way his eyes are shifting, like all that stuff that you would learn to look for. He's like, it just so like totally seemed truthful the whole time.

• 34:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, because it's one thing too, for a kid to, you know, have an imaginative, an active imagination and spin a story, like a one time story, but this is happening night after night. This is happening for four full years.

• 34:16Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 34:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's more.

• 34:17Corinne Vien?

  It is. And I also feel like it goes beyond, like, I feel like if you're encouraging a kid or like, sometimes they can like very quickly start spinning tales and it gets wild and wild, but it doesn't seem to be that for Ryan. It's like, if he doesn't remember something, he'll be like, oh, I don't know. And then like maybe a year later, like one small extra detail will come to him. Like it just feels so authentic.

• 34:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This is wild.

• 34:38Corinne Vien?

  I know.

• 34:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  This reminds me so much of my favorite listener story we've ever read from.

• 34:44Corinne Vien?

  We met her.

• 34:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know. Literally, we were fangirling. We're like, you? Is it Elsie or Elise?

• 34:52Corinne Vien?

  I think it's Elise.

• 34:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I think it's Elise too, but.

• 34:54Corinne Vien?

  It was a really amazing past life story that a listener, a mother, sent in about her daughter.

• 35:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, yeah. Elise. And we read it in multiple episodes. Let's see, we read it, we read it first on encounters 137. We also read it on a Patreon bonus. And I think we read it again. Because we were like, wait, we love this. It's so good.

• 35:15Corinne Vien?

  It's so good.

• 35:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 35:16Corinne Vien?

  Okay. So Cindy, who is Ryan's mom, her name's Cindy, she doesn't entirely know what to do for Ryan because he just like night after night feels plagued by these memories. She's listening to him. She's conversating with him. She's trying, but she feels like she needs to do something more. And so she starts taking out books on old Hollywood and will like sit with Ryan and flip through the pages and try to like learn about old Hollywood. Maybe this will like do something for his soul or satiate something in him that like he needs. One day while reading a book about old Hollywood, it was specifically about the Mae West film Night After Night, Cindy is flipping through black and white photos. Actors from the 1930s and 40s who are not household names today, most people wouldn't know the majority of the actors in this film.

• 36:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 36:01Corinne Vien?

  And then Ryan suddenly and excitedly exclaimed, "I found me."

• 36:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, my god.

• 36:09Corinne Vien?

  He points to a man who is not one of the Hollywood actors. In fact, this man is not named in the book. The book lists him as a Hollywood extra. So now they have a photo, but they don't have the name because Ryan couldn't remember his name.

• 36:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, especially because he didn't go by his actual birth name either, you know?

• 36:29Corinne Vien?

  Right. And I have, if you're watching on YouTube, I have some like photos. I showed this photo earlier in the episode, but like, look at him cheesing.

• 36:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh.

• 36:37Corinne Vien?

  Just a happy guy. He's so sweet. I watched, there's, there was like an NBC special on him. They did like some media circuit.

• 36:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I am so curious because I'm just thinking about as a teenager, like how embarrassed was he by this story or how much did he not want? Like, because I'm sure he got to a point in life where he didn't remember those things anymore.

• 36:56Corinne Vien?

  He did, yeah.

• 36:56Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But he is, his story has been shared with so many people and it's been so researched. Like, was there a phase of life where he was just like, "Stop talking about it, mom"?

• 37:06Corinne Vien?

  I don't know. I feel like it depends on your own personality and like the upbringing you had.

• 37:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  You either embrace it or you...

• 37:12Corinne Vien?

  Because I feel like, like my upbringing, it never, it would have always been like, "Yeah, that was so fricking cool." But I also grew up in a haunted home.

• 37:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's true.

• 37:22Corinne Vien?

  Ever, ever present conversation.

• 37:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But it's hard because, and I think this is a tough thing that people have with reincarnation just generally, it's this idea that then your own life isn't really your own and that like you aren't your own individual soul that you, which I believe in universal consciousness, which also if anyone's watching the new, you should watch it, the new Apple show, Plub- Plubris?

• 37:45Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, yes. Brian and I are watching.

• 37:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's so Pli- Pli-

• 37:49Corinne Vien?

  Pleribus?

• 37:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Pleribus?

• 37:51Corinne Vien?

  Pleribus?

• 37:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Whatever.

• 37:52Corinne Vien?

  You made it really hard to say.

• 37:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 37:54Corinne Vien?

  It's from the guy who created Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. The woman from Better Call Saul.

• 38:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, is the main actress.

• 38:01Corinne Vien?

  The main actress and it's so good. It's about this like.

• 38:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Alien disease.

• 38:05Corinne Vien?

  Yes, which like creates a universal consciousness where everyone is fully connected, but there's certain individuals, just like a handful.

• 38:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like ten.

• 38:13Corinne Vien?

  They don't get affected across the entire world. And one of them ends up being the most cynical. People in the world and like now she has to find a way to save humanity.

• 38:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, it's so good, but it is this idea of like, so they are all basically universal consciousness. So they, there's no individuality. There's no making decisions for yourself.

• 38:38Corinne Vien?

  Right. And that's the kind of like one of the themes because she had not, it's not going to spoil anything, but like she plus a couple of the other people that weren't affected have these conversations in the show where like some of them are like, well, why is this a bad, because she's like, we have to save humanity. And they're like, why is this a bad thing? There's no war, no one's hungry, like everyone works together, like we finally have world peace.

• 38:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 38:59Corinne Vien?

  But she's like, but at what expense?

• 39:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. We've lost all humans, like persons. But so like with this, I wonder how much it would influence your life in terms of decisions you make for yourself. Or how you feel about yourself.

• 39:13Corinne Vien?

  I'm glad you asked that because I think it's like the last line I wrote in this episode. You'll hear a small answer to that.

• 39:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 39:20Corinne Vien?

  Okay. So Ryan finds himself, the man listed as a Hollywood extra. So Cindy's like, we have the biggest clue we've had so far. I need to do some real digging. So Cindy goes into research mode. She's looking for clues from the book. She's got the information that Ryan has told her. And soon she learns the real name of this man. His name is Marty Martin, a former movie extra turned Hollywood agent. He danced in the film Night After Night, which is why he was in that book. He worked on Broadway, he traveled to Paris, and later he became a powerful studio agent. So many facts about Marty Martin's life matched perfectly with details that Ryan shared from his past.

• 40:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. That's the wild part is because it could have been like, oh, I, oh, that's me. And then the details didn't match up. And then it's like, okay, moving on. But no, it's like everything.

• 40:11Corinne Vien?

  Right. Like the Roxbury, like, oh, I lived on a street that had rock in it and a big house with a pool.

• 40:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like his family, the deep, yeah, literally every detail.

• 40:20Corinne Vien?

  Most of the details Ryan recalled because there were, there were dozens of facts that he over the years had shared. We're not even on the internet at the time. Using other researchers and experts and stuff and doing some real digging, they found old documents that weren't readily available anywhere on the internet. Right. And realized that everything was matching. That's amazing. Yeah.

• 40:46Speaker 02

  Born from the intensity of a night in the eternal city. Introducing Born in Roma Fragrances by Valentino. Feminine perfume Donna Born in Roma features juicy black currant, central jasmine, soft cashmerin and warm vanilla. Masculine leaning but unisex Womo has notes of fresh violet leaf, aromatic sage, green vetiver and mineral salt. Shop holiday gifts at Macy's.com.

• 41:16Speaker 02

  Born from the intensity of a night in the eternal city. Introducing Born in Roma Fragrances by Valentino. Feminine perfume Donna Born in Roma features juicy black currant, central jasmine, soft cashmerin and warm vanilla. Masculine leaning but unisex Womo has notes of fresh violet leaf, aromatic sage, green vetiver and mineral salt. Shop holiday gifts at Macy's.com.

• 41:45Corinne Vien?

  So the Hammond's family eventually sought help from Dr. Jim Tucker, a University of Virginia psychiatrist known for studying children with past life memories. And I think that we've talked about him before. Because he is one of the really big names. So I think in some of the modern day cases, we've covered a few in the past. I think that he also was working with them. He's the reincarnation guy? He's the reincarnation guy. So he trained under the late Dr. Ian Stevenson, who spent decades cataloging thousands of cases worldwide. And at the University of Virginia, where Dr. Jim Tucker is working, he works in the Division of Perceptual Studies, and they're studying past life memories. And what makes it so unique is that in these studies, these cases that they study are not to prove anything,

• 42:28Corinne Vien?

  but to methodically document what can't be explained away. Which is in some way proving something. Right.

• 42:36Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Because you're proving that what we know isn't all that we know.

• 42:39Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, but I like the approach too, because they're not like, you can't come at someone who's like, well, I'm not trying to prove reincarnation. I'm just literally listing all of the facts that can't be

• 42:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Explained.

• 42:50Corinne Vien?

  And collecting data that way to group together. What that will equate to in the future when we eventually crack the code, who knows?

• 42:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I don't know.

• 42:59Corinne Vien?

  So in the over 2,500 cases studied at UVA, here are some of the key characteristics that pop up time and time again in these past life cases. Memories begin around ages two to four, so four for Ryan. Memories fade around age six to seven, it was around eight for Ryan. Children recall traumatic deaths more frequently. Names, places, occupations, and family structures are remembered with surprising detail. Many children express grief for their other family, which definitely happened. He was talking a lot about his other

• 43:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 43:31Corinne Vien?

  Mama. And verified correspondences often match people who died abruptly. So for Ryan, all of this was true.

• 43:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's interesting, like, an abrupt death means that you're more likely to recall your past life in your future life? Because you're

• 43:47Corinne Vien?

  You don't have closure.

• 43:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which is similar to like, why people say ghosts exist, like this lingering unfinished business.

• 43:54Corinne Vien?

  Until 50 years later, they get plucked and planted into a little boy. Born in Oklahoma, 2004. Yeah, I mean, like, think about it, Marty Martin could have just been haunting a place for 50 years.

• 44:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. Or in just like, lost in the ether.

• 44:08Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 44:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which also is very sad.

• 44:10Corinne Vien?

  It is very sad.

• 44:11Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Did I tell you my new theory about residual hauntings?

• 44:14Corinne Vien?

  No.

• 44:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So the other day, I don't even know, I was just driving and I was thinking, and like, my brain randomly went back to this moment from like, when I was like, 14. And I was like, what if, because I just thought about it, if someone's in that room that like, where it happened, there's a haunting that happens? Because it was, it's a traumatic thing that I was thinking about, which I've done a lot of therapy on, so I don't think about it often anymore, but like, what if a residual haunting is when the living person recalls that memory? The like, energy that was left there is like triggered?

• 44:48Corinne Vien?

  Comes alive again, because it's still attached to you.

• 44:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 44:51Corinne Vien?

  Oh, that's so interesting. It's very creepy.

• 44:54Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Well, I'm not saying it is or isn't. I'm just, it's a hypothesis out there in the world for you now.

• 44:59Corinne Vien?

  I like that. Here's the thing, everything could be true.

• 45:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And nothing could be true.

• 45:02Corinne Vien?

  Mm hmm.

• 45:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We could be not real. Figments of your imagination. You're actually crazy.

• 45:07Corinne Vien?

  All right, so Dr. Tucker, he's brought in, he meets Ryan, he interviews Ryan's family, and he investigates all of the claims that Ryan's making. So I'm gonna go through like a bunch more of the things that he said, but like, for example, some of the things that were verified, Ryan said he danced in New York, Marty performed on Broadway.

• 45:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Mm hmm.

• 45:24Corinne Vien?

  Ryan said he had a big house with a pool, Marty had a stately Beverly Hills home.

• 45:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, bragging.

• 45:29Corinne Vien?

  The, the street rock, Roxbury Drive.

• 45:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 45:33Corinne Vien?

  Ryan stated he had three sons, he actually had three kids, a daughter, and then, I think, two sons.

• 45:41Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Um, does that say something about Marty? He always wanted all sons.

• 45:45Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, but then like in the whole investigation, they, they actually realized that Ryan had actually said he had three kids. He never said sons, but his own parents had just assumed sons and had repeated that he had three sons.

• 45:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 45:58Corinne Vien?

  So Ryan actually didn't say that. And then plus he had a bunch of stepkids, because he was married a million times.

• 46:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 46:04Corinne Vien?

  Ryan talked about traveling to Paris. Marty traveled to Paris.

• 46:08Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yep.

• 46:08Corinne Vien?

  On the Queen Mary. Ryan said he died when his heart exploded. He had a cerebral hemorrhage, hemorrhage, which stopped his heart. And he died. Ryan said he worked for people and made lots of money and that he worked for an agency. Marty became a successful Hollywood agent representing old Hollywood stars. Ryan said he died at age sixty one.

• 46:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Which he died at sixty one.

• 46:28Corinne Vien?

  Marty's death certificate said that he died at age fifty nine.

• 46:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But he actually.

• 46:32Corinne Vien?

  They got in contact with Marty Martin's daughter. She said, oh, the death certificate is wrong. My father died at age sixty one.

• 46:40Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Chills.

• 46:41Corinne Vien?

  Right? So Ryan's memory.

• 46:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wait, so they even talked to Marty's.

• 46:45Corinne Vien?

  Against historical records.

• 46:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But they also talked to Marty's daughter.

• 46:49Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 46:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Did Marty's daughter ever meet Ryan?

• 46:51Corinne Vien?

  I actually have no idea.

• 46:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'm not sure. I don't know if I'd want to. Like, as a daughter, I'd be like, no, that, like, that's his life. Like, I want him to have his own life.

• 46:58Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 46:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'd be curious, but.

• 47:01Corinne Vien?

  I know, and also I'm thinking, like, she, she was, he was such a young, young kid, and she was probably.

• 47:05Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Older, yeah.

• 47:06Corinne Vien?

  Much older.

• 47:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 47:07Corinne Vien?

  I'm including some screenshots of some of the notes that, I don't know if his mom took these notes, or if the researcher took these notes. But there's just like a, a list of some of the things that Ryan shared. I'm gonna rapid fire forty seven facts.

• 47:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Should have been sixty-one.

• 47:24Corinne Vien?

  Okay, actually, I'm gonna not read the ones that I've already read.

• 47:27Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay.

• 47:27Corinne Vien?

  He said he was very rich. He said there was a brick wall at his house. He said he brought coloring books home for his kids. He said that he had some boys that weren't his, but he gave them his name, so I think like his last name.

• 47:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 47:38Corinne Vien?

  And they got remarried. He had trouble with his oldest stepdaughter. She wouldn't listen. She didn't respect him.

• 47:45Corinne Vien?

  Daughters, they leave an impact on you. The afterlife. His mother had curly brown hair. He bought his daughter a dog when she was about six.

• 47:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh.

• 47:53Corinne Vien?

  She did not like the dog.

• 47:56Corinne Vien?

  He hated cats.

• 47:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, rude.

• 47:58Corinne Vien?

  Marty. He had a green car. He didn't let anyone else drive the green car. He drove a nice black car, too. The agency he ran changed people's names, which is like creating.

• 48:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. Even his own.

• 48:10Corinne Vien?

  Stage names. He tap danced onstage. The stage was in New York City. He saw the world on big boats. He danced with pretty ladies. He ate in Chinatown a lot.

• 48:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He loved Chinese food.

• 48:21Corinne Vien?

  He got skin burns in Hollywood. I don't know what that means.

• 48:25Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Is that like, I feel like a cosmetic thing where they would?

• 48:28Corinne Vien?

  Let's see.

• 48:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  In researching something for Crimes of, I learned that people used to like extract arsenic and put it on their faces. Cause it like lightened their skin.

• 48:38Corinne Vien?

  Going on back then.

• 48:39Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 48:39Corinne Vien?

  Yikes. Skin burns in old Hollywood were a hazard for actors and stunt performers.

• 48:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh.

• 48:45Corinne Vien?

  Basically from pyrotechnics and dangerous makeup, which makes sense when you think about like the Wizard of Oz and things like that. Everyone was just like constantly being poisoned.

• 48:53Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 48:53Corinne Vien?

  He played piano. He took his girlfriends to the ocean. He had.

• 48:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Girlfriends. I love that.

• 48:59Corinne Vien?

  He had many girlfriends. He knew Rita Hayworth. She made ice drinks.

• 49:04Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hmm.

• 49:04Corinne Vien?

  Bread was his favorite food. He had a pretty big sunglass collection. He was a smoker. He also had many affairs. He never had any problems getting ladies. He liked to watch surfers on the beach. He owned guns. He didn't have a TV when he was a little boy. He had a radio first. He hated FDR, cause he was a Democrat. You go to a room with numbers on the door before dying.

• 49:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, okay. I thought like before dying.

• 49:30Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, before dying.

• 49:31Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  For some reason, I thought like your like spirit starts like

• 49:34Corinne Vien?

  Or maybe, who knows?

• 49:35Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Like a hallway.

• 49:37Corinne Vien?

  He said, quote, "I'm not five. I'm closer to 105." Which if you did the math, when he said that, when he said, "I'm closer to 105."

• 49:46Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 49:46Corinne Vien?

  If Marty Martin had been alive, he would have just turned 106. He died at age 61.

• 49:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Whoa.

• 49:53Corinne Vien?

  And then a couple of my favorite others, there are a couple more. He and George made films together and he was friends with a cowboy guy that was in Night After Night. This cowboy did cigarette commercials. There was a scene in the movie in Night After Night where there was a closet full of guns. And Night After Night was about a guy who'd been a boxer. The cowboy friend had a horse. He remembers a lot about his cowboy friend. His cowboy friend did a whole bunch of westerns. He believed Teddy Roosevelt was the best president.

• 50:25Corinne Vien?

  Mayo was the guy that used to pay him to do movies.

• 50:29Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I thought you were gonna talk about mayonnaise.

• 50:31Corinne Vien?

  I know. Mayo, Mayo. I don't know. He said, quote, "Mommy, I can't wait until I get big again and I can go to those big fancy boats, wear fancy clothes and dance with all the pretty ladies."

• 50:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Sorry to disappoint you.

• 50:44Corinne Vien?

  I know.

• 50:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Life's not as magical.

• 50:46Corinne Vien?

  And he also tried to teach his mom a dance that resembled a waltz.

• 50:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, my God. I hope when Ryan gets married, he and his mom do the waltz. As their father, daughter, or mother-son dance.

• 50:58Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my God. Wouldn't that be amazing?

• 50:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It would be so cute.

• 51:01Corinne Vien?

  So Dr. Tucker, in working with Ryan to collect all of his memories and then compare them with any written records of Marty Martin's life, they were able, and of course, like, there's plenty of memories that he has that there's no, like, actual physical proof or, yeah, record of. But it revealed that over 55 details that Ryan provided were accurate, specific, matched Marty's life, and the majority of this information was not publicly available anywhere.

• 51:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Damn.

• 51:26Corinne Vien?

  This case would become one of Tucker's, Dr. Tucker's, most compelling and widely cited investigations. And perhaps the most heartbreaking but beautiful part of the story is Ryan's reactions once his memories were validated. So Ryan's mother Cindy, in doing a lot of her research to try to help Ryan when he was younger and he was struggling, she found other people online who had similar things happen to their kids, other parents of kids who believed that they had lived another life. Right. And a lot of these parents suggested, like, if you have the means to travel to the places that your kid is talking about, it does help bring them closure, it appears. So they did that. They traveled during the investigation, when they were working with Dr. Tucker.

• 52:06Corinne Vien?

  They traveled to Hollywood and to places that related to Marty Martin's life. And after this trip, memories started to fade a bit. And by age nine, all of the anxiety, all of the nightmares, the night terrors, the like sundowners, memories seemed to stop, as if his soul just needed the closure, needed to recognize what happened to him, needed to be recognized as Marty Martin. And now that that happened, Ryan could finally settle into the new life that he had, into life as Ryan Hammonds. He stopped calling the Hammonds his new family. What an honor as a mother, to be like, finally, I'm not the new family, I'm finally just mom. He stopped asking about his other mama. He stopped bringing up his death. And today,

• 52:48Corinne Vien?

  Ryan Hammond said he barely remembers any of it. But what is super amazing, and this kind of goes back to what you were talking about, or asking, Ryan said he could feel things from Marty's life that Marty did not want to repeat. Oh, that's so beautiful. Mm-hmm. So Marty was very greedy. He did a lot of time at work and schmoozing and like really focused on himself and his career. He had no time for his family and for his children. And he also was having lots of affairs. Yes, yeah. So Ryan could feel how negatively that affected Marty and Marty's soul. And so Ryan was like, I feel this so strongly. And he said this, and I think he was like seven or eight years old. He was like, I need to live my life without greed. I'm not greedy. Oh.

• 53:33Corinne Vien?

  So he's correcting the things that Marty potentially regretted most in his own life, a chance to do things differently. That reminds me, um, in Jacob Elardi, who...

• 53:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's like everyone's crush right now. Cause Frankenstein and Euphoria, but he just seems like a good person. He did an interview recently where he was asked like, what's one thing like you wished about like people? And he said, I wish people felt more shame. Like he thinks the world would be a better place if people really had to feel the shame of their actions.

• 54:03Corinne Vien?

  It's because the internet doesn't make you face yourself.

• 54:07Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. Yeah. So I was like, oh, I really like that idea. Which is like similar.

• 54:12Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 54:12Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Ideology there. Don't be greedy and feel more shame.

• 54:16Corinne Vien?

  So Ryan Hammond's case, Marty Martin's case, has left a lasting impact on this research and the belief in past lives. Does a past life exist within a person or does it simply exist all around? If a four-year-old recalls the private life of a Hollywood agent who died decades earlier, where is that memory stored until then? Is consciousness local to the brain? Or is it something like a radio signal and the brain is just the receiver? Maybe the soul is bigger than just a single biography. Maybe consciousness is something ancient and vast, something that flickers through different lifetimes.

• 54:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Agreed.

• 54:50Corinne Vien?

  Cases like Ryan's are captivating. It makes death seem a little less scary because it seems like it's a transition, not an end. And we all have the opportunity to live again, to try again, to dream again, to love again.

• 55:03Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  To make mistakes again, to learn again.

• 55:06Corinne Vien?

  Mm-hmm. And that is the reincarnation case of Ryan Hammond's, a boy with the memories of an old Hollywood agent, Marty Martin.

• 55:14Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And Broadway tap dancer.

• 55:15Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 55:16Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Wow. That's a beautiful story.

• 55:19Corinne Vien?

  And it's so recent.

• 55:20Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, like we literally have Ryan amongst us.

• 55:23Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 55:24Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And he just turned 21.

• 55:26Corinne Vien?

  Ryan, where are you at? Actually, I'm gonna do a quick.

• 55:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Instagram search?

• 55:30Corinne Vien?

  Well, I was just like, should I look in our inbox? Like what if, what if we have Ryan Hammond? He doesn't listen.

• 55:38Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Just because he's never emailed us. Yeah, well, I was like, well, this would be a case that you would email us, right? And say, hey, I remembered my past life. Okay, well, we do have so many listener stories about past lives that we should do an encounter that is all reincarnation. Like, truly, it was so hard to pick because there are so many. But I did pick one. This is called Creepy Kid. Three-year-old recalls his past life in Hoboken, New Jersey.

• 56:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's great. Hi, Corinne and Sabrina. I'm such a big fan and I've been listening forever and have been a self-proclaimed ghost girl since elementary school. Hopefully, you have a creepy kid episode coming up that you can use because this is a story of some interesting snippets of a past life that my son has been bringing up over the past year or so. So my son just turned three in August. Let's call him E. He has a pretty unique name, so I'd like to keep it private. I've always said he's an old soul. The only song that could get him down was American Pie by Don McLean. I would sing the entire version and in eight minutes and 16 seconds, he'd be out.

• 56:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  While, while we look nearly identical, E has curly, dirty blonde hair and bright blue eyes, and my husband and I have dark hair and dark eyes. So he looks more like my grandfather's side of the family. He has always been chatty, but around two and a half, he started to bring up some interesting, to say the least, memories that did not belong to him. So here are a couple snippets. We were eating dinner at my aunt's house. We're a tight-knit family from New Jersey and we spend a lot of time together, but here's how the convo went. My son said, "This is my family." I said, "Yep, we're all here. This is your family." My son said, "Except for my daughter." And I said, "Who's your daughter?" My son said, "Amanda.

• 57:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  She has yellow hair and she lives in the sky." So one day, I'm giving him a bath, this is another snippet, and he starts to complain of his back pain. I keep asking him about it, like, did he fall at daycare? Is something wrong? I'm looking for bruises, anything? And I ask, "Why does your back hurt?" He looks at me and goes, "Lifting all that ice."

• 57:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I ask, what? When were you lifting ice? For years, that's how we paid the rent.

• 57:57Corinne Vien?

  Years of hard labor, it follows you into the next life.

• 58:00Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It does.

• 58:00Corinne Vien?

  How terrible.

• 58:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So it looks like young men used to carry ice to apartments before modern day luxury of refrigerators. They would literally carry slabs of ice to kitchens. Another snippet, we were swimming at a resort pool for what felt like hours and I'm begging him to get out. So I say, come on, let's get out and dry up. And he looks at me and says, yes, let's play Binkle Swish. I'm like, what?

• 58:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And he says, the game. And I'm like, okay, who taught you that game? He looks at me and says, Murray at the shop.

• 58:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We play all the time.

• 58:33Corinne Vien?

  Murray.

• 58:34Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  At the shop.

• 58:35Corinne Vien?

  I love how it's just like, some kids are like, like in the case of Ryan, where it's like, he's kind of pained and confused by remembering this stuff. But this kid is just like, Murray, of course.

• 58:45Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right, like he really just, it almost feels like he's not even recalling that this is a past life. He's like, no, no, like my past life is my current life.

• 58:52Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 58:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah, like he still is.

• 58:53Corinne Vien?

  You don't remember Murray from the shop? And all my hard labor with the ice? What the hell?

• 58:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So I ask, who was Murray? And my son says, your cousin. So I look it up and it seems like Binkle Swish is a version of Binkle, a card game played in the 40s and 50s. Swish is a faster hand. I'm trying to teach myself on YouTube before he forgets so I can play with him.

• 59:16Corinne Vien?

  What? That is the coolest thing ever.

• 59:18Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 59:18Corinne Vien?

  Think about that, like to say that you got to play a card game in your son's past life.

• 59:23Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right. And it's, it's not a game that any child would know. I've never heard of that before.

• 59:28Corinne Vien?

  You should have him teach you.

• 59:30Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So I'm not aware of any cousin named Murray, but I have my sister looking into it. Well, this part also makes me wonder if she was a part of his past life in some way too.

• 59:39Corinne Vien?

  Right, like it's lineage wise, it doesn't work with like their current.

• 59:42Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 59:43Corinne Vien?

  Line, but.

• 59:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  We were getting coffee one morning and we're waiting in line and the song Papa Loves Mambo comes on and he starts swaying and says, I love this song. I used to dance to this in college.

• 59:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Now, we're huge fans of Sesame Street. The song goes, can you tell me how to get to Sesame Street?

• 1:00:00Corinne Vien?

  Can you tell me how to get, how to get to Sesame Street?

• 1:00:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So one day I overhear him playing and singing, can you tell me how to get to 11 Jackson Street? And I go, that's not our address, bud. He goes, yes, I live in a small red house, so we have an address. He doesn't even know his own address, but he recalls his address from his past life. We don't have a Jackson Street in our town. Another snippet. Most recently, we were at a brewery and our group brought a speaker and iPhone to jam. There were a few other kids and they were all requesting songs to sing and dance to. And he comes up to me and asks for his song and starts to sing. Should all acquaintance be forgot and never brought to mind? Should all acquaintance be forgot and days of auld lang syne? We were all shocked. We put it on. My cousin put on the first one she found on Spotify, which was by Ingrid Michaelson. And he quickly said, no, not this one.

• 1:00:51Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He wanted the version by Guy Lombardo. My family stares in shock as he knew every single word. I don't have video of him at the brewery. We were so in shock and didn't even think to tape it. However, I asked him to sing it again later that night and the video is attached. I've started doing research into my family history with the help of my sister. And I know that my grandfather had a cousin named Amanda, who he was very close to. And Amanda was like the name of the daughter. They lived in Hoboken, New Jersey, where there is a Jackson Street. Since he had mentioned we're cousins, it may be a viable lead. So is it possible that my son is my grandfather's uncle? We're planning to take him to Hoboken to see if anything comes up. But yeah, I really wanted to share my creepy kid story. Love the pod. See you on the other side, Justine.

• 1:01:36Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:01:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And this was sent to us in October, so it's a recent, it's an ongoing past life.

• 1:01:43Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Experience.

• 1:01:44Corinne Vien?

  I'm so curious too, if you did go to any like historian from Hoboken? If you could like figure out in like the 40s and 50s. The shop that Murray worked at.

• 1:01:55Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I know.

• 1:01:56Corinne Vien?

  Because like it probably isn't that anymore.

• 1:01:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 1:01:58Corinne Vien?

  It's probably like swanky restaurant or something.

• 1:02:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right, because there's no ice shops now, like not like that.

• 1:02:03Corinne Vien?

  Yeah, but like, where was that? Where was the ice shop?

• 1:02:06Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Hoboken does, I feel like, have a lot of its heritage still in place. Like, they have like old signs and like old painting on the bricks that doesn't apply to what the stores are now, but they kind of like pay homage to the past. Okay, so I'm gonna play.

• 1:02:20Corinne Vien?

  That is so cool.

• 1:02:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I'll play a couple of seconds of this video. We're not gonna put the video in to not show the face of the kid.

• 1:02:26Corinne Vien?

  Privacy as a child.

• 1:02:37Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  He's eating a snack while singing.

• 1:02:41Corinne Vien?

  Oh, my gosh, this is so amazing. I feel like he provided so many details.

• 1:02:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  So many.

• 1:02:45Corinne Vien?

  Like, what I love with this is you feel like you can get a sense of his personality before.

• 1:02:49Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Oh, absolutely.

• 1:02:50Corinne Vien?

  Like, that's coming through.

• 1:02:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  100%.

• 1:02:53Corinne Vien?

  So cool. God, I hope, I hope Noah has some memories.

• 1:02:58Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, I'm just gonna read one more. It's a short one.

• 1:03:00Corinne Vien?

  Okay, yeah, because I love this too much.

• 1:03:01Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Okay, this is also a similar, it's from Jess. It's a creepy kid with a past life story. Hey, ladies, Free Princess and Sven. I have no idea if you read my previous email, as I'm not listening in order. We do email you when we read your story. But I'm currently at work, listening to episode 191, and I work at Amazon overnights. As many know, that can be painfully boring, so I listen to y'all. People walking by, seeing everything from me laughing to bawling my eyes out with your stories. Okay, but now my story, or my daughter's story. My daughter Nova, who will be eight on January 23rd, that was 2023, so. But she used to tell everyone the river story. Now, I know kids tell weird stories, but she literally told this to everyone for a few years,

• 1:03:44Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  and it started when she was only about two and a half years old, and really started to talk in small sentences. My sister caught on about her telling everyone, so she asked me about it. And I told her I thought it was just a dream she had. But then my sister was like, let's sit her down. So we decided to sit her down for more details. So this is the story from Nova's perspective, from two and a half years old, completely unprompted. I was walking by the river and I fell in. Then the alligator came out and chomped, chomped, chomped me away. Here are the list of questions we asked her about the story and her answers. We said, was this a dream? No, mommy, it really happened. When did it happen? Before I came to you. How did you come to mommy? I was born. Can you describe the river?

• 1:04:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  There were lots of trees and the ocean was on the other side of the river. I asked, who was with you? And Nova said, my sister. I asked if her sister helped. And Nova said, she tried, but the water was.

• 1:04:43Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I asked, what was the weather like? She said sunny and hot. Ladies, my dad is from a huge family in southeast Georgia. It's all swampland and there are lots of gators. So I'm curious.

• 1:04:55Corinne Vien?

  That's what I was just thinking. I was like, okay, somewhere between like Georgia and North Carolina.

• 1:04:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah. So I'm curious if she's a reincarnated family member. She did stop telling the story around five years old and now when asked, she doesn't remember the story or any of its details.

• 1:05:08Corinne Vien?

  Wow.

• 1:05:09Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I just had another baby in April and I had a baby girl. So I'm dying to find out if she says anything similar or if my oldest will have more details since the baby is here. I love you ladies and wanted to thank you for giving us all a safe space to share our stories. If I can't see you on this side, but I hope to, then I'll see you on the other side. Love, Jess.

• 1:05:26Corinne Vien?

  I mean, again, like a traumatic death.

• 1:05:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Right.

• 1:05:29Corinne Vien?

  And you just recall your death in the next life.

• 1:05:32Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Chomp, chomp, chomp me away.

• 1:05:34Corinne Vien?

  And the like, the ocean, like the water going, it like, not to be extra grim, but like it reminds me of like the alligator, like when they do like the barrel roll, right? The water does feel like it's like all around you because you're, you're being.

• 1:05:47Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  It's like dangerous.

• 1:05:48Corinne Vien?

  It's the death.

• 1:05:48Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:49Corinne Vien?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:05:50Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  What a terrible way to go.

• 1:05:51Corinne Vien?

  I know.

• 1:05:52Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  I mean, death is scary, but it's not the end. And I think that's.

• 1:05:56Corinne Vien?

  It's not the end.

• 1:05:57Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  The message of this episode.

• 1:05:58Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:59Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And our podcast.

• 1:06:00Corinne Vien?

  La la la.

• 1:06:02Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And merry holidays. And if you have ghost stories, please email them to us at [email protected].

• 1:06:10Corinne Vien?

  And if you're an alien deep within the void and you want to come visit.

• 1:06:13Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Abduct me.

• 1:06:14Corinne Vien?

  Beam Sabrina up. Just say, would you like to play a game?

• 1:06:17Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  And I'll say, yes. Sure.

• 1:06:20Corinne Vien?

  Sure.

• 1:06:21Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  Why not? Fuck around and find out. Which is what I'm all about and Corinne is not.

• 1:06:25Corinne Vien?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:26Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  That's boundaries.

• 1:06:27Corinne Vien?

  Safety.

• 1:06:28Sabrina Deana-Roga?

  But join us on Patreon if you want episodes one week early and ad free, plus bonus episodes, plus campfire stories, plus witch class, plus book club, plus stickers, and holiday cards. Oh, my gosh, yeah, our holiday cards are coming out soon. They should be in the mail by the time this comes out. Yes, that's true. We love you all. Thank you to our editor, Jamie, and thank you to our producer, Emma. We're so grateful. Couldn't do it without all of you. And thank you to all of you for listening. We love you.

• 1:06:55Corinne Vien?

  And we will see you on the other side.

• 1:07:06Speaker 03

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you, so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.