The New Way For Ordinary People To Build Wealth - Tony Robbins - #1153

Tony Robbins is a life and business coach, entrepreneur and #1 New York Times Bestselling author. Christopher Zook is an investor, founder and chairman. How do you protect and grow your money when the markets feel so unpredictable? Tony Robbins has written extensively about money and investing, and he’s back with practical advice for everyday investors. So which strategies hold up in turbulent times, what costly mistakes should you avoid, and how can you make smarter decisions today to build a more secure financial future? Expect to learn the new strategies of investing from some of the nation's most successful funds, what Tony’s new philosophy and formula on investing is, which investing advice people still repeat today that is completely outdated, how normal people can get investing access to some of the world's fastest-growing companies, if we are in a genuine market bubble and much more… Sponsors: See discounts for all the products I use and recommend: ⁠https://chriswillx.com/deals⁠ Get 160+ lab tests for just $365 and save an extra $25 at https://functionhealth.com/modernwisdom Get a free bottle of D3K2, an AG1 Welcome Kit, and more when you first subscribe at https://ag1.info/modernwisdom Get 35% off your first subscription on the best supplements from Momentous at https://livemomentous.com/modernwisdom Get a Free Sample Pack of LMNT’s most popular flavours with your first purchase at https://drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom Get ChatGPT to explore ideas, solve problems, and learn faster at ⁠https://chatgpt.com Timestamps: (00:00) Tony’s Rules for Building Wealth (11:07) Is the S&P 500 Still a Smart Investment? (15:08) What Does Real Diversification Look Like? (20:03) The Investment Opportunities Everyone Overlooks (32:33) Which Investments Are Riskier Than They Seem? (36:09) Why Risk-Averse Investors Need More Diversification (41:22) How a Scarcity Mindset Shapes Your Investments (46:10) Can an Abundance Mindset Make You Reckless? (51:22) Why Everyone Needs a Dream Bucket (01:01:21) How Should Smart Investors Spend Their Money? (01:07:48) What Does the Future of AI Look Like? (01:22:13) How to Make Better Decisions (01:29:06) Where to Find Tony Extra Stuff: See me live in the UK & Ireland this October: ⁠https://chriswilliamson.live Get my free reading list of 100 books to read before you die: ⁠https://chriswillx.com/books⁠ Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic: ⁠https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom⁠ Episodes You Might Enjoy: #577 - David Goggins - This Is How To Master Your Life: ⁠lnkfi.re/SN-Goggins⁠ #712 - Dr Jordan Peterson - How To Destroy Your Negative Beliefs: ⁠lnkfi.re/SN-Peterson⁠ #700 - Dr Andrew Huberman - The Secret Tools To Hack Your Brain: ⁠lnkfi.re/SN-Huberman⁠ - Get In Touch: Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx⁠ Twitter: ⁠https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx⁠ YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast⁠ Email: ⁠https://chriswillx.com/contact⁠ - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chris Williamson?

  People of the UK and Ireland, I'm coming to you live. Imagine that, me on stage in your city. Dublin is completely sold out, but everywhere else has got limited tickets left, and you can get yours now at chriswilliamson.live. This is a custom-built live show. I absolutely adore it. I've spent over a year working on it. So if you're a fan of everything modern wisdom, come and see me on stage this October around the UK and Ireland, chriswilliamson.live. Despite being just 4% of the global population, Americans made up nearly 50% of the world's new millionaires in 2025. You've written three books in this area. Why another one on finance? What hadn't you said already?

• 0:36Speaker 01

  Good question. I never even wrote the first book. In fact, I hadn't written a book for almost 15 years. I don't enjoy writing books. I like the variety and the aliveness of interaction, what happens. But when 2008 happened, I was really annoyed because I worked with Paul Tudor Jones, one of the greatest financial traders of history. I've coached him for almost 30 years. So I had some insights for what was going on. And at the end of it, I thought, somebody's going to get punished. Something's going to happen because a small number of people basically almost destroyed the world economy. And what I saw was their reward or their punishment was we gave them more money. And so about 2010, 11, 12, I started saying that something's got to happen here. And I was mad because it's like, right now, the game seems like it's rigged, and the average person thinks that they can't win.

• 1:19Speaker 01

  And I went, oh, could they? And so since I've got access, I said, I'm going to interview 50 of the smartest financial investors in history, the most successful, the Ray Dalios, the Carl Icahn's, the Warren Buffet's, all of them, Paul Tudors. And I'm going to find from them whether the game is really winnable still. And so I wrote this book, Money Master of the Game. I want to write a book that my billionaire clients will be blown away by, but I could also, someone just starting the journey would do it. And we were successful. Number one New York Times bestseller, really great. But then, you know, people are not prepared for what happens. And while I didn't know COVID was coming, anyone can anticipate the changes in the market. And so I wrote Unshakable because I wanted people not to lose when the markets change. And people that applied that got tremendous value.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  But then along the way, so many people, Americans are behind. Like, they're so far behind in terms of their investments, in terms of their retirements. And so how do you get there? Well, you got to get better returns, but it usually requires bigger risks. And one of the people I became really good friends with, Ray Dalio, who's, you know, the greatest investors in history, they call him the Da Vinci. And, and one of the days I met him, I was supposed to have a 30-minute interview, and four hours later, we left. That's part of how we became friends, because I studied everything about him. But one of the final questions I asked him was, what's the single most important investment, you know, principle that you know of? If there's one principle to guide people, what would it be? Because I now, I gathered all these brilliant people, and I come down to like

• 2:43Speaker 01

  these core four things that everybody needs to do. Everybody needs to protect downside risk, and that's not what most people think about, right? The best investors on earth are all about, don't lose money, which is so counterintuitive. But they do it by asset allocation. They don't ever put all their eggs in one basket. They know how to allocate well. So when they lose, they can still win. They know if you lose 50%, you got to make 100% return to get even. Most people don't do the math properly in their head. But the biggest thing I saw was asymmetric risk reward. And when they went to risk a dollar, like Paul Tudor, his goal is, if I think I'm making investment, I got to believe I'm risking a dollar to make five. Now, if I'm wrong, I can risk another dollar to still make four. He could be wrong four out of five times and be in good shape, whereas the average

• 3:25Speaker 01

  person doesn't think that way. I met, you know, some people that did some investments, like Kyle Bass, who, you know Kyle from Texas. Kyle was following my work. He took $30 million and turned in $2 billion in 2008. How do you do that in a year, in the worst year of economics? He saw real estate and saw, everybody thinks it's going to go up, and it's not. And so he risks basically 15 cents on every dollar. He could be wrong 15 times and still make money. And he made money. So I asked him at the time, just for Ray Dalio, I said, how do you teach somebody, you know, this idea of, you know, thinking that you're taking huge risks, you get huge rewards, is not how you win. It's disproportionate. I need asymmetric risk reward. How do you explain that to somebody who doesn't understand? He

• 4:09Speaker 01

  goes, well, Tony, I'm interested you say that. I want to explain it to my kids. So he said, I was trying to figure out how to teach it to him. So one day I asked a question, what is a riskless investment? And I said, riskless investment? Is it really such a thing? He goes, no, most people don't ask that question, so they don't find the answer. He said, there is one. Nickels. He said, if you buy a nickel, you can never lose the money. It's always worth a nickel. But he said, let me explain to you how I taught my kids this. It costs nine cents for the American government to make a nickel. That's how we run our government. He said pennies used to be full of copper, 95% copper. And then we turned it out to 2% copper, and those pennies in the past are worth twice as much money, right? He said, it's going to happen. And he said, but also, I can melt it down.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  The meltdown value is worth 20% more than I'm buying it for. So, or 36%, excuse me, more than I'm buying it for. He said, so I could melt. I said, well, you can't do that legally. He goes, well, that's true, but some money goes outside the country. He said, but let me be clear. I called the Federal Reserve and said, how many nickels do you have? And I bought all the nickels they would sell me. And he said, he bought like 20 million nickels, whatever the number was. And he goes, if I could push a button and put all my money in nickels, I'd do it tomorrow. I have a 36% return on day one. I'll virtually guarantee 100% return at some point in the future, because you can't keep making things for nine cents that you're charging five cents for. And he said, and I have no downside. He said, so that's asymmetric risk reward, right? So in that area, that's something

• 5:38Speaker 01

  that's hard to get, but I knew that was valuable. Then, the third thing I found they all talked about is you got to be tax efficient, right? Because your net is based on taxes. And then the fourth is the one we all know, diversification. But diversifying against different assets, different asset classes, different timeframes, and different countries, different currencies. But Dalio said, when I asked him this question, he goes, Tony, I have thought about this for the last 15 years. And I have now, what I would tell you is the Holy Grail of investing, which is the title of our book. And he goes, it's simply this. I found out that if you can find eight to 12 non-correlated investments, and they're things you believe in, you reduce your risk by 80% and increase your upside. Now, when I heard this, I was like, wow,

• 6:23Speaker 01

  it's hard to find eight to 12 uncorrelated investments in the world we're in today, right? Even stocks and bonds are not supposed to be correlated. But if you look at what happened in 2008, 2020, they do. They both go down, right? They correlate. And then your broker says, I don't know what it is, right? So he explained to me more detail about that. But the simple understanding is you have to go to private equity, private credit, private real estate to have that diversification, unless you're, you know, a trader has sophistication, synthesis that you can use, synthesized type of investments. And so that set me on looking at it. Then I was invited to go down to speak at the Alter Investment Conference for JP Morgan. You got to be a billionaire to get in there, right? I've been there two or three times now. And who speaks right before me is Ray Dalio. And they do this full interview with him. And the last question, they ask him a very similar question. What's the most

• 7:08Speaker 01

  important thing you've learned in 50 years investing? He says the Holy Grail. Everyone in the room is a billionaire plus. Nobody written notes the whole damn day. Everybody's head goes down, writes this down, because it's such a simple principle, but it's the core. So I started saying, how do I get to that? How do I help the average person to get that? Because, you know, I've got a name, you've got a name, we all have access to a certain extent. Private equity is an extraordinary result. But here's what I found out. In the last 39 years, private equity has outproduced every stock market in the world for 39 straight years. Average private equity. Now, in this book, we interviewed 13 of the best in the

• 7:45Speaker 01

  world, right? Average is average 15.7% returns. The S and P 500 of those 39 years is 9%. 74% better per year compounded for 39 years. So if you put a million bucks in the S and P, you're pretty happy right now. You got just under 29 million, 28.7 million. If you put it in basic private equity, it's $293 million. The same money, same time, 10 times the return. So now the question is, how the hell do you get access? Because there's a big difference between the big boys and the average boy, right? So, again, if you're famous, you might get it. I got access. I know people. But the slice they give me wouldn't change my

• 8:27Speaker 01

  life. It's nothing really huge. And I was lamenting about this to a friend of mine who used to be partners with Paul Tudor Jones, who's a really great guy, and I'd helped him a lot. He said, Tony, I'm going to make your day. I'm going to tell you where I put most of my money, and I'm going to change your life. He said, you've done so much for me. It's my time to do for you. I said, really? I'm leaning for it. And this is a very sophisticated guy. He goes, there's a company that can allow you to come in and not just try to get a little piece of these investments, where you become an owner, a general partner in these firms, not a limited partner. You make the two and 20. You're on every single asset that they have, every investment they have. I said, really? I said, where's this firm? And I thought he was going to say, you know, New York, Connecticut, London, Singapore.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  He goes, they're in Houston. I said, Houston? He goes, yeah, they're away from the beaten path. And they do this better than anybody I've ever seen. He said, they have the majority of my money. You got to go meet them. That's how I met my co-author here, Christopher. Because I went and sat down, and it turned out Christopher had been through my program 25 years ago, started his business based on it. He has, I got to brag on him at the moment, he has a 96% profit ratio on the investments he's made for 25 straight years. We joined forces about five years ago. He's about 2.7 billion. We've grown it to 13 billion just in the last four and a half, five years. And so I got, I became an investor initially. Then I became the owner of the company, partner in the company. And we've grown the company to have that kind of impact. And it's because we're able to bring people, general partnerships.

• 9:55Speaker 01

  It's like, do you want to own the racehorse? You want to own the race track? That's what the opportunity is. And the richest people in the world, if you look at the Fortune 400, are all people that are in private equity. This is where the largest is. It's not real estate. It's not technology. Look at the list, and you'll see who they are. There's a reason. This is one of the most unique opportunities. And now, the reason we wrote the book is the average American has not had access. If you look at the ultra high net worth people, 52% of their money is in private equity, private credit, it's private. Only 29% in the public markets. There used to be 8,000 companies 30 years ago. Now there's only 4,000 in the public markets. 87% of all companies are private today. 100 million to 3 billion.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  There's 200,000 of them and that's a whole lot more to be able to do. And the old idea of private equity is you go in, you take over the company and you sell everything off. It's not like that today. It's about added value. They have to be. So it's a new industry and the way it's been operating and it's producing results unlike anything else. You can't pay all your money because you need liquidity and there even some answers to that today. But we went all in and figuring out how to help people be able to grow at a much higher rate. So they can get to their goals, but with even less risk if they manage it effectively.

• 11:07Chris Williamson?

  Do you think ordinary people are making a mistake by putting all of their money into the S and P then? This is kind of old school wisdom, dollar cost average in, but it sounds like there's other returns to be made.

• 11:18Speaker 02

  It's so funny. I had a conversation with somebody literally a couple of months ago and they say, you know, Christopher, I understand this diversification thing, but I really don't need that. I own like six out of the seven of the magnificent seven. I'm like, dude, you are not diversified. They all move together. If one is zigging, the other is zigging as well. So they all get hit together. People don't think back to where are the magnificent seven, literally in 2002, during the sell off that we had there, that group of stocks dropped by almost 50% in less than a year. So people might want that upside, but they have to be able to tolerate the downside. So do I think it's a mistake to put money in the S and P? No, but it can't be everything. They need to have diversification of other things that will zig and zag at different times,

• 11:59Speaker 02

  which is the whole point of the holy grail of investing is if you have certain things that are making money when others are losing money, and I know it's a silly example, but for everybody who's a golfer out there, they'll get it. Right? If you stock a golf shop and all you sell in there is sunscreen, well, on sunny days, you're going to sell a lot of sunscreen. If all you sell is umbrellas, well, then on rainy days, you're going to sell a lot of umbrellas. But the key is to have both. So on rainy days and sunny days, you're still making money. And that has been so hard. Here's another fun statistic. In 2005, just literally 21 years ago, if you had an average allocation that looked like most of the brokerage accounts, including alternatives, your average correlation was about 0.15,

• 12:40Speaker 02

  which meant they correlated about 15% with each other. 85% they're moving different directions. Okay? Today, literally with no change in that S allocation, it is 82% correlation.

• 12:53Chris Williamson?

  Globalization's a hell of a drug, man.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  It is, but it's also indexation. Because if everybody's buying the same stocks, just all in or all out every single day, they tend to all move together.

• 13:03Chris Williamson?

  ETFs don't discriminate.

• 13:04Speaker 02

  No, they don't. And what happens is in stressful environments, it actually gets worse to where it goes all the way up to about an 89% correlation when you have a down market. Because what happens? Everybody indiscriminately sells everything at the same time. And that means they're getting hit from all sides, which is why 2020 and the early part of that year was so tough for people. And 21, 22, everything basically got hammered.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  And think about it right now, the magnificent seven are 32%.

• 13:32Chris Williamson?

  Can you explain the magnificent seven for people that don't know what that is?

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Absolutely. So magnificent seven is basically the, the, the big names that people know. The Nvidia's, the Netflix, the Facebooks or Meta now, Google, Amazon, et cetera. Those are the Microsoft's included in that. That's the magnificent seven. And to what Tony was about to say. Okay. Right now, that mag seven is 38% of the S and P 500.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  Well, it's actually under 32 today.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  That's correct. It pulled, it pulled back quite a bit here lately. And so what that means is 493 stocks make up the other 68%. And so seven make up 32%.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  And the highest percentage in history before this has been 17% of any group of companies. So it's twice, more than twice.

• 14:17Chris Williamson?

  It's a consolidation of risk even inside of the S and P 500, which is supposed to be spread across 500 companies.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  Completely. And very volatile companies as well.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  I want you to know they're complementary. We, we have things in the S and P as well. But you've got to have, you've got to spread your risk. You can't do it all. And when you look at, if you look at pension funds, you look at, you know, university funds. If you look at what's happening with high net worth people, the majority of their investments are in private equity. Because that's where they're getting the returns. You can't, they have to be able to provide for the future and provide an income for the future. And so that's where they are. So, and there just isn't more, there's not enough volume. Think about it. To go from 8,030 years ago to 4,000 stocks roughly, a little less than that actually now in the public markets. You've got more dollars chasing a smaller number of items and you know what that creates? It creates inflation that isn't necessarily based on value.

• 15:09Chris Williamson?

  Okay. Lots of stats, lots of complex numbers to be able to understand here. Imagine that somebody doesn't understand investing, doesn't know where to start. How do you explain what diversification should look like just from first principles and where should that go?

• 15:22Speaker 02

  So what I always try to tell people is exactly like the business example. No single company really wants to sell one thing. So you want in your portfolio, you want things that are going to do well in lots of different environments. Good economies, bad economies, high inflation, low inflation, high interest rates, low interest rates. In order to accomplish that, you have to diversify across lots of different asset classes. And most people hear private investments and they get very intimidated by that. Because like, I don't know what a private investment is. Well, most people are in the private markets. They don't really realize it because they own a home. Anybody who owns a home owns a private asset. It's not priced every single day in the newspaper. You can't look it up online to see exactly what it's worth. You can get a guide, but you never know for sure what it's worth until you sell it. Well, that's a private asset.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  The same with the dry cleaner on the corner or the subway sandwich shop that they might go shop in. Those are all private businesses and obviously anyone who owns those is going to make money or lose money based on the success of that particular business. Not because of the fact that the Fed raises interest rates or lowers interest rates or all the other complex things. They try to intimidate people or tend to intimidate people. So getting people to understand it's just simply good diversification, good business practice to not have all your revenue streams tied up in one single product. That's true also for your investments. Let your return streams come from lots of different sources.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  And here's a piece that's different today and it's about to change because we're interviewing Secretary of Labor Sonderling right after this interview is coming into the house. There are new laws. One of the reasons we wrote the book is it's great to know this, but most people can never have access. So what good is it? So what's happened though, is the Congress and the Senate actually passed a law initially, went through the Congress, not yet the Senate, that said that, look, you should not be barred from having these types of investments because you're not an accredited investor with a million dollar net worth or, you know, or a $5 million net worth or as a qualified purchaser. The best investments have been reserved for people with the most money. It's completely unfair. Now the idea is we're protecting them from things that are unsophisticated. Well, think about it.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  A lot of great business people are not great investors or a lot of people inherit money. They're not great investors, but they get to go there. So what they came up with is we're going to create a set of questions so you can educate yourself. And if you can answer these, you're qualified. You don't have to have an economic qualification. You just have to understand what you're doing, which makes so much more sense. But even since then, there's some new laws that are coming out and maybe you can address them that are happening. They're right now being reviewed as we speak. That's we're having the interview with later with Secretary of Labor Sonderling.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  So two things. Number one is last June, a year ago, June, the Securities and Exchange Commission, the SEC, just literally with the stroke of a pen, said people do not have to be an accredited investor anymore to invest in certain types of funds, which own alternative assets. Funds that own things like the Los Angeles Lakers that just sold or the Golden State Warriors or, you know, Formula One teams, et cetera. SpaceX before it was an IPO. Right? Those kinds of funds were never available to investors unless they were already wealthy. So now anyone in the world, literally for a $2,500 minimum, can invest in those funds. That literally changed last June and most people don't know that. The second thing that Tony's referring to is the Labor Department has put forth a rule

• 18:40Speaker 02

  that would enable it to be much easier for 401k plans to allow alternative investments to be available to every single person who has a 401k or a 403B or any kind of retirement account. That is a total game changer for the industry to be able to allow people for the first time to be able to invest in so much of the economy that they've been prohibited from before.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  Unless they're wealthy.

• 19:04Chris Williamson?

  Tell me if this sounds familiar. You train regularly, you eat reasonably well, you feel fine, but you're just kind of going off vibes. Most people have absolutely no idea what's going on inside their body. And that is why I partnered with Function. Function gives you access to more than 160 advanced lab tests, spanning hormones, heart health, kidney function, and even detects early signals linked to more than 50 types of cancer. To put that in perspective, your typical annual physical might test 20 markers. Function runs over 160. It's huge. Best of all, you test twice a year and everything lives inside of a simple dashboard. So you track trends over time, make sure you're moving in the right direction. And this level of testing would usually cost thousands, but with Function, it is $365 per year. Just $1 a day to actually know what's happening inside of your body.

• 19:48Chris Williamson?

  And right now you can get $25 off, bring it down to 340 bucks. Get the exact same blood panels that I use and save $25 by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com/modernwisdom. That's functionhealth.com/modernwisdom. Can you, let's get specific. What are some of the investment opportunities, asset classes that people don't think about? Everybody understands and you guys agree. S and P, that's probably a good place to have some, et cetera, et cetera. Right? We can take away with that. What are the more?

• 20:20Chris Williamson?

  Exotic.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  Well, I'll give you one that's fun and it's not exotic because everybody knows about it, but they think it's probably impossible. Sports, as you just related, sports are an uncorrelated investment. They have nothing to do with whether the market's going up or down, what's happening with interest rates. In the last 10 years, they've had an 18% compounded return. But if you look up through history, through wars, World War I, World War II, sports have always done well and they're non-correlated. So you want to find assets.

• 20:45Chris Williamson?

  So sports are recession-proof.

• 20:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  They are.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  And you know why? Today, they don't just sell hot dogs, which by the way, they have a unique relationship. They have a monopoly in their cities, a legal monopoly. No one else can go compete with them. And by the way, their fans are called fanatics. That's where the fan comes from. They're multi-generational and they come and they, when inflation goes up, they charge more for hot dogs, as we all know, and everything else you can imagine. But now they don't just sell tickets and hot dogs. Today, these are modern media organizations. So we own a piece, I own a piece of stuff. I took me, what, 20 years of my life to be able to own a sports team and to qualify and go through. They had a microscope to you. I helped us start the soccer team that we have, you know, in Los Angeles, the LA Football

• 21:29Speaker 01

  Club, and put the whole thing, invested, went through the whole nine yards. But then the rules changed and they made it so certain firms were able to make investments directly into these firms. And now they did it in Major League Baseball, they did it in the NBA, they did it in Major League Hockey, and now the NFL has just done it. And the returns are unbelievable. So I'll just give you an example. We have a piece of the Dodgers, own a piece of the Red Sox, own a piece of the Lakers, excuse my Lakers, the Golden State Warriors. All of these firms have grown. So Peter Gruber, one of my partners in business, we did the LAFC together, he was one of the guys that bought the Dodgers. In 2012, he paid 2.2 billion for the Dodgers. Every article said, he's insane, these people are never going to make money, this is the most ever paid for a sports team. Now Peter's my partner

• 22:13Speaker 01

  and I was like, Peter, I know you're no dummy. What are we doing the right thing here? He goes, Tony, you can trust me on this, you know me well enough. But he said, I'm not even going to tell you, I'm going to make an announcement the next week and then you come over and we'll have a little party together. So now here's what you can understand. When you own a sports team, if it's like the NBA, you're 1/32 of the league, you have 32 teams or the NFL. NFL is an even better example. All the national, international advertising, you get 1/32 now. So if you own an NFL team, you get a $400 million check to start the season. That's your piece. But you also own your local TV advertising yourself. So Peter bought them for 2.2 billion and then announced he just sold the rights for local television

• 22:57Speaker 01

  rights for $7 billion and made $5 billion in a day. Right? So he's done quite well in this area, and I've done quite well with him in this area. You know, today, he took on the Golden State Warriors, they were the worst placed team, they had paid only $450 million for it. Now they're the second highest valued sports franchise in the world, behind the Yankees, to give it, excuse me, behind the Dallas Cowboys at this point, right? 11 billion that he's built to do. So these are enterprises today that are not just selling sports. They're every aspect that you imagine and they are an incredible return and they have nothing to do that happens in the stock market.

• 23:33Chris Williamson?

  Sounds great. How do I invest?

• 23:35Speaker 02

  There's lots of different ways that somebody can do it if they have the right knowledge and the right information. But because of the rule changes, now there are funds that are available, literally, that people can get into for 2,500 bucks and own a piece of all of those firms.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  This just got it. Actually, we just got approved for this to give you a sense.

• 23:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, so that was, so that was June of 25 was the first time that the rules changed to allow everyday investors to be able to do it. But so collectively as a firm, you know, we have exposure over 30 different professional sports franchises and we have ways that every single investor in the world can invest with us and own a piece of all of those firms, right?

• 24:09Speaker 01

  Diversified, so it's not just one team.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 24:11Chris Williamson?

  So you've made an index fund or an ETF of a variety of sports teams.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  You know, I'd love to say that it's better than that, right? And I believe it is because it's not just beta, it's not just the market itself or the index fund, but actually really, really curated specific teams and specific areas that have specific opportunities for growth that we believe we bought at very attractive prices.

• 24:32Chris Williamson?

  What's the category of firm that has access to this? Someone wants to go onto the internet right now and say, this sounds great. I love sports. I want to get in, I need to diversify. Like what do they put into the internet?

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Just put in kazinvestments.com. That's what they would do. That's the easiest way. But I mean, there's very few firms that are permitted to be able to invest in multiple teams in the same league. And that's what the rule changes were from 2019 to 2024 for somebody to be able to do that. It wasn't, it didn't exist before 2019. So we were very early in that, in that theme. And for, one of the things I think would be really helpful for the audience, because a lot of people are like, okay, sports teams are trophy assets and people just, rich people want to own it because it's a cool thing to own. It is a cool thing to own, but it's about cord cutting. It's about people getting their content differently. Watching your podcast is not something that really existed 20 years ago.

• 25:26Speaker 02

  So in 2005, 14 of the top 100 watched programs that were live in the United States were sports, 14 out of 100. In 2025, 96 of the top 100 watched live programs were sports. Why? Who watches a live program when you can go on Netflix or Amazon or any other and not have to watch commercials? So you're going to watch the work.

• 25:49Chris Williamson?

  Sports teams and Love Island fans. That's all it's like.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  We own a, you know, and along with our partners, we own a stake in Liverpool and we own a piece of Paris Saint-Germain.

• 25:56Chris Williamson?

  Sorry to hear that.

• 25:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I figured you might because of where you're from, but all the, and several others that you might be more familiar with. But the opportunity to be able to own those dominant franchises around the world in all different types of sports is something that most people didn't ever think of. And that was your question. What do people not think of? The other thing they don't think about is early stages of venture capital because like, well, I can't get access to it. You know, Sironic got great attention earlier this, this, this summer because they rescued those two pilots that were shot down in the Strait of Hormuz, the helicopter pilots. It was an autonomous boat made by a company in Austin, right, that literally went out there and saved these two people with no

• 26:37Speaker 02

  other people being put at risk. That didn't exist a couple of years ago, but that is an example of a company that actually is available to everybody in the world now at a $2,500 minimum if they know where to go. And obviously, that's a big part of what we wanted to write the book for, to be able to help people understand these opportunities do exist. And they've got to do their own homework and they got to make sure that they're comfortable with it. But ultimately, that's what something, that's something that people really just were never able to do. And now the world has changed and they have the ability to adapt with it and get exposure that they couldn't before.

• 27:08Speaker 01

  And at these final pieces that Sonny Link's working on, they've had the final comment period. So shortly, there'll be a final decision, but that means people could put it in their 401k as well. So now it's tax advantage on top of everything else that you're talking about here. But there, you know, the world has changed. Think about what the war has happened in the Ukraine and how that's changed the world. We no longer can start sending these multi-million dollar missiles to take out these crappy little drones. It's just, it's, it's, it's a system that doesn't work. And so now there's all these private companies that are gearing up to take on this. And now, you know, the G7 and this group has gone in there having put 5% of their money and they're almost doubling what they're spending. So you're talking about literally a level of spending that's going into the military

• 27:53Speaker 01

  side, but it's now companies that are based on technology who can come and, and do things at scale.

• 27:59Chris Williamson?

  Guys like Andrew Rill.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  Exactly. Those are the ones that we've invested in, right? So we have access to those. So those are all against ways to diversify. So you have different asset classes, right? Think about space and military. These are going to grow. Unfortunately, we're going to need them to grow geometrically.

• 28:15Chris Williamson?

  I'm happy about space. Space good, military lesser good.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  The military, but we got to protect ourselves, right? So it's a combination of two.

• 28:22Speaker 02

  And that's, that's something to where literally the headline was, you got to stop throwing Ferraris at Frisbees. Okay? You know, you can't use a Tomahawk missile to shoot down a 30,000 hour drone. So you have to come up with other ways to protect your, your people and to be able to protect your country. And then space is just such, it truly is the, no pun intended, the new frontier. And to be able to do what we're doing in space and what SpaceX has done to be able to open up the commercialization of space to such a dramatic effect, to be able to deliver things that were never able to be done before to places that were never able to be done before. There's another company as an example called Armada. They literally have a box that looks like a rail car. They can drop that in the middle of nowhere, Africa.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  And because of Starlink, they can have a completely fully operational data center as long as they have power and access to the sky.

• 29:10Chris Williamson?

  I saw a video of this. It's like a industrial shipping container thing. Yeah, I've seen this before. That's wild.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  Very early investors in the company because what it did, it's solving a huge need. What they refer to as being on the edge to where, you know, things in the middle of Alaska or things on a, on a ship in the middle of the ocean. All right. You're not going to be able to have a data center there that's secure. So we have one of the gentleman that works for us. He's a former Green Beret, right? He can't tell the exact story for obvious reasons, but literally they were in a jungle somewhere south of, you know, in South America. And literally they were able to use an Armada box connected to a local natural gas facility, connected to Starlink and saved their butts. All right. He got a chance to meet the CEO and he said, you saved my life. Thank you. And he's like, I didn't do that. No, your

• 29:58Speaker 02

  business saved my life. That's the kind of use case. Or Icon, another Austin based company that you may know. Jason Ballard and his team at Icon are, they do the 3D printed homes.

• 30:08Chris Williamson?

  Yes, I have seen this as well.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  Okay. So they are literally able to print homes or now Barrick or any other kind of industrial facility, two stories, and they can do it faster and cheaper than you could ever do it with physical labor. And obviously it's concrete. So it's very durable and it's very sustainable.

• 30:26Chris Williamson?

  Well, I mean, look.

• 30:26Speaker 02

  Those businesses are crazy.

• 30:27Chris Williamson?

  Coming from, coming from the UK, America's a fantastic country, but you guys insist on making your houses out of wood. It's fucking wood. Everything's made out of wood. I'm like, build it out of brick. This is ancient technology that we're doing here. Some thatched roof that you've got. Tell you what, I had, I had David Friedberg on the show a couple of months ago. He's so great. And he was explaining to me, talking about crazy new technologies. He was explaining to me, one of the reasons that the moon is going to be incredibly important. It means that once you've got something there and you can von Neumann probe, use the materials on the moon to make stuff that you send from the moon, because the launch velocity that you need to get off of there is, is way lower. Right? That was cool. But he explained to me how the mass ejectors on the moon work. So I was thinking, you've got a small factory

• 31:10Chris Williamson?

  that finds materials, turns it into kind of a 3D printing style thing. And then from there you send out into the rest of the solar system and the galaxy, what it is that you need. But he explained to me, the way that you get it off, you need about four kilometers or so of track and you use a mag leaf thing to send it. But what was so fucking cool, this is my favorite thing. Two things. First off, the gravity on the moon is so low that you don't actually need to send something up. If you send it fast enough, flat, it reaches escape velocity, just like throwing a ball really, really hard. And it just gets out of, that was the first thing. The second thing is that you use the orbit of the moon to

• 31:51Chris Williamson?

  aim. So you're waiting, you're waiting, boom, and you send it. And it's like, oh, I'm just going to use the way that the moon rotates to like fire it in the direction. I was like, this is the coolest shit I've ever heard. I thought it was so fucking.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  By the way, Icon is building.

• 32:04Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  Out of the materials on the moon, they're building the facilities for them there. They've got a practice facility that isn't built right now.

• 32:11Speaker 02

  NASA has, has hired them to effectively make this possible. And so those are the kinds of things. We were seed investors in the company of Icon. We've watched it grow up. That's an example of things that people would never think to invest in. They would just observe like, oh, that's cool.

• 32:26Chris Williamson?

  But you need to be David Friedberg to know that it's happening.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  That's right. But you don't anymore.

• 32:29Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  It's available to everybody in the world, literally at 2,500 bucks.

• 32:33Chris Williamson?

  What about the other side of this? What is an investment that maybe millions of Americans currently believe is safe or reliable, but is actually riskier than they think it is?

• 32:44Speaker 02

  It's hard because everything has its purpose, right? Some investments should lose money 90% of the time, but 10% of the time they make a lot of money and that gives you negative correlation or things moving opposite direction. So that doesn't mean anything is bad. I mean, somebody could say that Bitcoin is a bad investment. It could be a phenomenal investment.

• 33:02Chris Williamson?

  It can be higher risk though, right? Something that's higher risk than people anticipate?

• 33:05Speaker 02

  And that's.

• 33:06Chris Williamson?

  What would you put in that category?

• 33:07Speaker 02

  There's so much that fits into that category. So many people don't understand that, you know, the risk level is what we refer to statistically as volatility. All right? Standard deviation. What I put it is your gut. How much does your gut have the ability to tolerate? If you can't see it turn into 50 cents overnight, you don't belong in it. So you got to make sure that whatever it is you own is not going to create the panic that you get out of it. And then you dramatically underperform the investment itself because you can't stay in the seat. Right? That's one of the reasons why leverage is so dangerous for most people is leverage gets them blown out with a margin call because the fact that they don't have staying power. Staying power can be economic and it can be gut. And the vast majority of

• 33:50Speaker 02

  investors don't have near stuff, a tougher gut as they think.

• 33:54Chris Williamson?

  Citadel comes along and eats your lung.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  That's correct. And that's exactly what happens. And that's what makes a market.

• 33:59Chris Williamson?

  So it's too soon.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  No, no, it's okay. It's just the reality of the world. And obviously good for Citadel, not great for the other party. But that's what most people have to do is not over concentrate.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  And like Bitcoin is a perfect example. Young people go for Bitcoin like crazy. And the idea was it was going to protect us in, you know, inflationary areas. But you see what happens. And when all of a sudden the tech investors lost a lot of money, guess what? They all sold their Bitcoin to cover themselves. Right? So they're correlated still. And so it's a lack of understanding. I'll tell you what's more scary. I just read a statistic the other day that Generation Z and Millennials, the combination of the two, 52% of them in the last year have taken money that they would have used investment and put into sports betting. And that 26% think that sports betting is their way to build their financial future.

• 34:47Chris Williamson?

  As two financial experts, are you telling me that's not the truth?

• 34:50Speaker 02

  Definitely not. Hell no. Bad idea.

• 34:54Chris Williamson?

  Come on.

• 34:55Speaker 02

  Now, it may be good for a while, but I wouldn't plan on if you retire.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  It's called luck, right? You're just praying for luck in that situation.

• 35:01Chris Williamson?

  Who wants to invest in the sports team themselves? They want to invest in whether or not this guy's going to touch gloves with the goalkeeper before he finishes.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  I mean, let me invest in the horse and not on the racetrack. That's the opposite mindset. That's, you want a billionaire mindset, you want on the racetrack.

• 35:14Chris Williamson?

  I've learned from over a thousand podcast episodes, the easier that you make your health routine, the more consistent you'll be. It's like golf, right? You want to keep it simple and not mix a bunch of pills. You want the eye of the tiger, not the DUI of the tiger. That's why I'm such a huge fan of AG1. One scoop contains 75 vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and whole food sourced ingredients in a single daily drink. And that's why I've been taking it every single morning for nearly five years now. And they've taken it a step further with AG1 Next Gen backed by four clinical trials. Those trials, it was shown to fill common nutrient gaps, improve key nutrient levels in just three months, and increase healthy gut bacteria by 10 times, even in people who already eat well. Plus, if you're still unsure, they've got a 90 day money back guarantee. So you can buy it and try it every single day for three months. If you don't like it, they will give you all of your money back.

• 35:57Chris Williamson?

  Right now, you can get 20% off a welcome kit and that 90 day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinkag1.com/modernwisdom. That's drinkag1.com/modernwisdom. Talking about the psychology, I think this is, this is an area I already want to talk about. Is there a personality type that shouldn't be an active investor? Is there a type of person who just isn't built to be in the market at all? Or how would you advise people who are significantly more risk averse to put up with the bad days, to put up with that time?

• 36:31Speaker 02

  It's such a beautiful thing because they don't ever have to have a bad day if they're properly diversified. The, most people are like, okay, I'm going to put, you know, the old 60, 40, right? 60% stocks, 40% bonds. For decades, that worked until it didn't. And then all of a sudden, people realized that they actually were more correlated and they didn't make money on their bonds and they got hammered on their stocks. It doesn't mean there's not a place for bonds and it doesn't mean there's not a place for stocks, but they need to build it out with the rest of it. So the more risk averse somebody is, the more diversified they should be. If somebody's going to go out and, and by the way, this is the biggest mistake that I see people make every single day. And I've seen it for 35 years of my career. People make investment decisions based on dollars. That is crazy.

• 37:11Speaker 02

  No professional investor does that. It has to be on percentages. So a million dollar investment sounds like a lot of money and it is, unless you're worth a hundred million dollars, in which case it's just 1%. So $10,000 or a million dollars, if it's 1%, it's 1%. And somebody says, I'm going to go put 50% of my money into this. They'd go, that's way too much. That's risky. Or if they're going to say, I want to go put 50 grand in it. Well, now all of a sudden they go, that's not that much money. Well, if you only got a hundred grand, it's a lot. So the more that they diversify and properly diversify across all of their assets and percentages are properly weighted, they don't have to worry about volatility because that's the whole point of the whole grail of investing

• 37:51Speaker 02

  is just by adding eight to 12 different non-correlated investments, you can reduce your risk by 80%. 80% volatility.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  No other way to do it.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  80% reduction in risk and you can usually get still a, the same return or even a better rate of return.

• 38:06Chris Williamson?

  Well, I think what is as impressive maybe is getting, reducing your, your downside risk is what it does to the level of stress that you've got.

• 38:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 38:16Speaker 02

  Totally. Something's working. How many people get stressed when something is working?

• 38:20Speaker 01

  And the, and the loss, the, the upside joy versus the, all the studies on psychology versus the ceilings of loss, they don't compare. The loss that people stay with much longer. I think one of the most important things is if people can get in a position where they have this kind of diversification, and if there are things like private equity, the great thing about private equity is not only is it out producing every market in the world for 39 straight years, but also its drops are shorter and they don't have to do it. Think about it. When the market drops, you're, you're in the general market, the open market, all those prices go. If you're private equity, you hang on to what you got. You don't sell it. Right? And you buy things during that time. So that's how they're making money. Think about it. They're not making money just hoping they're going to get the right price right now. They're buying something at the best price they can, a business, and

• 39:04Speaker 01

  they figure out how to improve it. They're bringing in a new CEO. They're bringing in AI. They're bringing in a new manager team. They're putting in new marketing and they build that company up and then they sell that for a multiple, either taking it public or very often to another private company. So they have a, I love that type of investing because it's how I made all my money as a human in my businesses. You know, I have now 121 companies. We do $22 billion in business, just my group together. And all of those companies, we've done well because we found a way to add more value in that marketplace. We figured out what to do that no one else is doing more, better. And we found that edge. And then the business grows geometrically. That's how these guys invest. It's not like the old days where they find something, cut it all up and sell off its pieces. That was the original kind of private equity. Those days are over. And now they got to put their

• 39:48Speaker 01

  own money in. That's one of the reasons that we have the opportunities that we do to be able to be investors as, as general partners. Because since 2008, when everything dropped, Bain had approved to everybody, hey, it's worth doing. They said, okay, we're going to put our money in as we've done in ours. You might give them a sense about that.

• 40:05Speaker 02

  So like Bain was the first one that really did a very large GP commit. Okay. That means the general partner who manages the fund puts in a bunch of their own money to show alignment with the other investors in the fund.

• 40:15Chris Williamson?

  Skin in the game.

• 40:16Speaker 02

  Skin in the game. Okay. So they literally coming out of the global financial crisis, everybody's like, eh, I'm not sure what I want to invest in. So Bain said, okay, we're going to, among our partners, we're going to put a billion dollars into our own fund. Well, that got everybody's attention like, oh, well, I guess you're aligned with us. And so that gave people comfort and confidence. That's very much the standard. Now typically two to 5% of all of the money in a fund is put up by the people managing that fund of their own capital. So that way there is that alignment. And so as you think about a firm growing from a billion dollar fund to a $5 billion fund to a $10 billion fund, they've got to have very significant 200 to 500 million dollars of their own money to put into that fund. But they may not have harvested their billion and their $5 billion funds yet.

• 41:01Speaker 02

  So they will sell a stake to firms like ours where we have the ability to then provide them with the balance sheet that they need to go raise bigger funds, show more alignment. And they obviously have to sell a piece of their company to us to be able to do that. But if they sell 12% of their company, they still own 88. So everybody wins from that growth that comes from that capital.

• 41:22Chris Williamson?

  Just sitting on the, on the psychology piece for, for another minute, scarcity mindset, abundance mindset, when it comes to the way that people see their financial future. How does, or how do you guys see a scarcity mindset show up in someone's investment decisions?

• 41:37Speaker 01

  Well, I was interviewing 95 of the, the greatest investors of all time, but I also interviewed Mary Calhan-Erdo from JP Morgan, who basically oversees 2.2 trillion investments. And in everybody's case, I asked them, you know, what's the biggest advantage? They all talked about asset allocation. Every single investor talked about it. And she said, Tony, the way I look at it is if I get somebody that's super risk adverse, I look at it, my, my partnership think I'm crazy. He goes, I'll put them in treasuries because my goal is to make sure they get what they want emotionally as well as financially. If it takes them longer, that's okay. Some people, they're just, they can't handle it. And you've got to understand that because if you're investing so that you can eventually feel good, that you feel secure, that's.

• 42:19Chris Williamson?

  And you feel miserable during your investment on the way to feel good.

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. So you've destroyed your life. And she goes, so that's what I do. I'd like, she said, I'm not dumb. I still get them some balance, but I, I think of it as like buckets. Think of it this way, there's a security bucket, kind of a peace of mind bucket. That's investments that have a fixed return, right? Those are, you know, bonds, that's going to be a variety of things, insurance, it might be your home. It's a place where things are going to go very slowly. There's very low risk, so it's not high returns, but low risk compounds over time. It looks like grass growing and then boom, boom, boom. We all know what compounding does, right? If I play, we do a game of golf and say, let's play 10 cents a hole. And then right before you swing, I say, well, well, we doubled each hole, just make it more interesting. You know, 10 cents first hole, 20 cents second hole, 40 cents, 80 cents. You go, oh yeah, there's 18 holes.

• 43:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay. You know, a few bucks, no big deal. But the last hole's worth $13,000, right? And the first beginning, it's 20 cents, where he looks like nothing. And the last five holes, it goes like this. That's what compounding is. So even in the security bucket, you can get financially free. The risk bucket, growth bucket, risk growth, most people think of as growth. That's the places where you don't have a fixed return, where you have unlimited upside and unlimited downside. That can be everything from real estate to stocks, to bonds, to private equity, to anything you're talking about. Trading, you can lose way more than what you put into. You've got to be careful, obviously, with puts. So the balance between those depend on a couple of different things. Number one, when do you need the money? If you need it three years from now, you know, you can't be able to take too much risk because you don't have time to make it up.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  Right? If you're 30 years old, you can make some big mistakes. You could have a lot more in your growth bucket, risk bucket, lose, and you've got time to make it up. Right? So that's the first thing, when you need the money. Second thing you've got to look at is what is your real risk tolerance versus what you think it is? You know, we, I have a game we play in one of our wealth programs that we do. And I'll say to people in the middle of the thing, I'll say, stand up. I'm trying to make change with everybody. They go, what? I should make change. And we play this little money song and people walk around, start taking money out of their pocket and they're exchanging money. And then they, the song ends, I say, okay, sit down. And then I go on like something else. And always one or two people are really fuming. And they'll, they'll finally raise their hand and say, excuse me, excuse me. And so what is it? They go, that was not fair. I said, what are you talking about?

• 44:33Speaker 01

  They go, I mean, that person, I gave them a hundred dollar bill and they gave me a five. And I want my money back. And I said, well, who said it was your money?

• 44:44Speaker 01

  And I said, who said the game was over? Right? And I said, and the real lesson is if a hundred dollars stress you out and you're going to be an investor, you're going to lose. The greatest investors on earth are not liars. They will tell you, I'm going to lose. What I want to do is make sure when I lose, I don't lose very much because I've got enough diversification in what I'm doing. So people's got to understand what their real feelings are about things. And then the third element that affects it is access to cash flow. If you are making a hundred thousand dollars a year and spending 110, you don't have a lot of extra cash flow. But if you're making a hundred thousand dollars a year and you're making, saving, you know, $50,000 of your money, yes, you've got more cash flow. We've got a business that's putting more cash than you need it, you can take more risks.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Right? So how much you put in that security bucket? How much you put in that growth bucket? That's really an important philosophy because what everybody does is they think they're putting the security bucket and then somebody goes, oh, Bitcoin. Somebody goes, oh, AI, oh, something. And they get, I don't do, I'll take my security bucket and I'll put it over here in my growth bucket. And then when I make the money, I'll put it back over my security bucket. What we do tell people is when they grow in their growth bucket, for people like that, we say, take a third and put it in your security bucket. So it keeps growing even faster. Put a third back. You can take a third and you can use that for other forces that we talked about as well as, as one example. But it's, it's an individual process that people need to make based on the criteria that we just talked about.

• 46:10Chris Williamson?

  What about on the other side, someone who has an abundance mindset? Like, can that make you a better investor or just dangerously optimistic?

• 46:19Speaker 02

  You tell me. I've seen, I've seen, I've seen both.

• 46:21Speaker 01

  I was going to say both.

• 46:22Speaker 02

  I've seen both where people are, they think they're bulletproof and so they're just fearless. And they make investments with no fear about the downside and it ends up working out for them, which is usually the most expensive thing that can happen because then they believe that's going to happen every time.

• 46:35Chris Williamson?

  Oh, they're lost in the sauce.

• 46:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're totally, I mean, somebody gets blackjack the first time they sit at the table. I mean, they're.

• 46:41Chris Williamson?

  I'm a genius.

• 46:41Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  I'll give you a perfect example. I have a friend, it's a true story, who went through my programs, my business programs. And he bought a taxi top business in San Francisco. And he was one of the first people to take it digital. Previous to that, the only thing to advertise was tobacco and, you know, naked bars and things of that nature. Now he was doing movies and everything else. Well, he built it up and sold the thing for $200 million to big advertising firm. And so I said to him, I said, how much are you going to put in your security bucket out of that? How much are you going to put back in your growth bucket? He goes, Tony, I give you so much credit. I tell you, everybody, I made $200 million based on everything you taught about how to grow a business. That's the only thing is like, I don't need a security bucket. He goes, I'm going to make these new investments. I'm going to Vegas.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  And he, he started buying advertising space in the air above spices in advance. It was actually a very brilliant strategy. And he goes, I'm going to be a billionaire. I said, I bet you will. I said, you gotta take a little bit off the table because if you're going to Vegas, that should be the first lesson, right? You take a little off the table. He goes, Tony, I love you dearly, I'm not doing that. So sure, if he calls me up about three years later, he goes, I'm making a killing on some of that advertising. I'm doing so great. Now, this is 2006, he goes, now I'm building buildings in Vegas condos. And I got, he told me the names of the celebrities, I don't mention, so his name stays private. And he goes, I got these celebrities in. And he goes, I'm going to sell out this first building up front using everybody else's money, just like Donald Trump, like everybody else. He goes, I'm going to be worth $600 million.

• 48:09Speaker 01

  I said, I'm proud of you. How much are you going to take? I'm scared, but I had the same conversation with him, right? He goes, you just don't give up. I said, you know why? I've talked about this for 30 years and I meet people, come back 20 years later, 10 years later and say, holy shit, I wish I would have listened. He goes, Tony, I'm doing great. End of the story, 2008, real estate in Las Vegas drops 70%, 7, 0%. Right? I talked to him, the second tower, everybody wants their money back. People walk away from it. The second tower is there. He's upside down $400 million, trying to avoid bankruptcy. I'm not mentioning his name because he says, you can share my story, but I want more lawsuits.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  He's starting all over and all because he just didn't understand this basic piece. So the answer to your question is most people, it's a mistake. The smartest people who take risks are doing an asymmetrical risk reward. Where do I have the least amount of risk with the greatest amount of upside? That's what makes people wealthy. That's the discipline that makes them wealthy.

• 49:12Speaker 02

  Well, and the, the, the abundance mindset is great because it means they're also not living in fear and they're not, you know, afraid of taking risks. So we've had a saying for 25 years of our firm, what's the worst case scenario? If we can live with that, the upside will take care of itself. We have an abundance mindset. When we invested in Icon, we knew that it could very well go to zero. And we were willing to take that risk because we knew that if it worked, it could be completely game changing, not only investment wise, but also for society. That is the reason why we could do that is because we have an abundance mindset, but we always respect risk and we're always afraid of not respecting risk because we know the risk will just whack you upside the head if you don't respect it.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  And Christopher has a partnership that's feeling nice because I see the opportunity, he sees the risk. So.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  I'm the skeptic.

• 50:01Chris Williamson?

  It's the yin and the yang.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  But it's so perfect, right? We bring things together to each other. He'll look at, how many will we look at in a year now? It's more now.

• 50:08Speaker 02

  It's over 2,000 investments a year.

• 50:10Speaker 01

  And out of that we'll make.

• 50:11Speaker 02

  Maybe 20 or 30 in a typical year.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  Out of 2,000 opportunities, many of which are extraordinary, but that's why there's a 96% profit ratio of all investments over 25 years. So you have to have that kind of discipline.

• 50:24Chris Williamson?

  The supplement industry is full of products making claims that they can't back, which is why I'm such a massive fan of Momentous. Their co-founder Jeff Byers played in the NFL and saw firsthand just how wildly the quality of supplements can vary. So he built Momentous around a higher standard. Every product from Momentous uses evidence-backed ingredients, transparent doses, and independent third-party testing. Everything is NSF certified for sports, so what's on the label is actually what's in the tub. It's why Momentous is trusted inside all 32 NFL locker rooms. It's why I've trusted them with my own supplements for years. Best of all, Momentous offers a 30-day money-back guarantee, so you can buy it and try it for 29 days. If you don't love it, they will give you your money back. Plus, they ship internationally.

• 51:05Chris Williamson?

  Right now, you can get up to 35% off your first subscription and that 30-day money-back guarantee by going to the link in the description below. Heading to livemomentous.com/moderndwism and using the code MODERNWISDOM at checkout. That's L-I-V-E-M-O-M-E-N-T-O-U-S.com/moderndwism at checkout. How do you think about taking some off the table for you to use in your life? I'm aware that much of this is what's your personal tolerance for risk and how much do you need and so on and so forth. But there's a certain archetype of person, and Bill Perkins wrote a book about this, Die with Zero, which is fucking fantastic. There is a certain archetype, this sort of more misery person. Maybe there's someone that didn't come from money, but as opposed to, I now have it, I'll blow it. It's I now have it and I'm terrified of losing

• 51:49Chris Williamson?

  it. How do you think about advising people who are investing in the market? It's like, all right, you've done well. It's time for you to actually take some of this.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  This is so personally critical. I teach this. I kind of alluded to it. I said, two buckets. There's a third bucket. I call it your dream bucket. And what I have people do is the dream bucket is all the things you call investments that really aren't, but they make you feel good.

• 52:10Chris Williamson?

  Like a hyperbaric oxygen ship.

• 52:11Speaker 01

  Yes, like a hyperbaric oxygen shipper, like that SP3 Ferrari. Yeah, maybe it goes up from 3 million to 5 million. Maybe it goes down.

• 52:18Chris Williamson?

  Like the new bed that you want.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  It's your jet. It's your island. It's those things. Or it's a little condo that you have, you know, depending where your economics are. It's $50,000 of walking around money. It's what you do for jewelry. It's those things. And I have people create those. And the reason I'm create those is if you don't enjoy it along the way, most people, if they own a business, they learn how to create more when they experience more joy from what they're doing as well. But we keep the same disciplines. But instead of only having those two buckets, we'll say, when you have a big hit, put a little piece in your dream bucket as well. Or you get a big growth expansion on your growth bucket, put a third in your security, put a third back to reinvest and put a third in your dream bucket. And so what happens is I find people, different types of people, that type

• 53:04Speaker 01

  of person gets excited. Like I fortunately was around some brilliant people. Peter Guber, one of my dearest friends in the world, the last 35 years, I mean, he is a lifestyle guy. And like, he got me, I'll never forget, I was 30 years old. He invited me to come to his place and ask me a thousand-acre ranch in Aspen, to give you a sense of the value.

• 53:22Chris Williamson?

  Quite highly sought after real estate.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  A hundred million dollars for five acres, right? To give you an idea. So I go to his ranch and talking to him and he calls me up. He says, you gotta come to this meeting. And I'm not a networker. If I can't add value, I don't want to just go talk about stuff, right? Because Tony, the most influential people, I'm telling you, I need to put you in front of these people. Proximity is power. Come to us. So I lived in San Diego. So I fly to LA, right? Because that's first leg. Then I fly to Denver. Then I fly from Denver to Aspen. They lose my luggage in Denver and I get to Aspen. By the time I'm done, it takes nine hours to get there. I arrive as the dinner's ending.

• 53:58Chris Williamson?

  With no clothes.

• 53:59Speaker 01

  With no clothes, with clothes on my back. And Peter said, what the F is wrong with you? What? I said, what are you talking about, Peter? I've got here. I left at 6:00, 7:00 this morning. I went from here to there. And then he goes, you flew commercial? And I said, Peter, I'm not a billionaire like you. He goes, are you an idiot? You don't need to be billionaire. You could charter and be here in two hours. He said, you gotta buy some crappy bill, get a Learjet. It's 2,500 bucks an hour. For 5,000 bucks, you'd be here and another 5,000 back. I had $10,000 and my ticket was only 1,200. Yeah, and you weren't here. And he goes, you should come up with a budget. The amount of hours you fly per year, you should come up with a budget and just charter. You don't need to own a plane. He said, it will transform your life. And so I still didn't do it. And one night

• 54:41Speaker 01

  I was doing an event in Los Angeles and then two events had collided. Somebody screwed up on the schedule. I finished at 1:00 in the morning. I got to be in Edmonton, Alberta the next morning at 8:30 for 5,000 people. And there are no flights. So I said, and I need to sleep. I've been going on for four straight days, 12 hours a day. So I called my team. I said, you gotta find a jet. Buy the cheapest, smallest little Learjet, whatever you gotta do. And I said, I gotta sleep. They go, Tony, there's no room to sleep on all those things. I said, if I was dying, if I was dead, what would you do? You'd put me on a gurney. Get a gurney in that thing. They go, it'll never happen. We pulled it off. I arrive there at 2:00 in the morning. First time I'm on a private jet. I climb in this little thing. It's such a small jet. I can touch the captain, right? I strap into

• 55:24Speaker 01

  this thing. We lift off. We turn an angle. We look down at Santa Monica Bay. I look up at the moon. I'm all strapped in. I fall asleep for four hours. I get up. I'm on stage in time. I do the event. I go, this is the way to live. So it changed things. It changed my ideas. Like, okay, I'm doing all this business. Most of that is half right off anyway. Here's what the real dollars are and I figured out how to earn more. So there's a mindset that comes if you experience a certain lifestyle. If you have ever had the privilege of someone else cleaning your toilets and you don't like that, you probably won't do that again. You'll probably find someone who's really good at that, enjoys that, and provide them an income and give yourself freedom to do something else. Having lifestyle is critical, I believe. But it's different for everybody. Some people miser. But, you

• 56:09Speaker 01

  know, it's like, there's a story about this, this couple that saved all their money and they went on this little trip. You know, they've saved it forever and they didn't want to spend their money and they go on this cruise. And but they bring cheese and crackers because they don't want to spend any extra money. And so every day they go on the trip, they meet everybody. And at the end of the day, they go have their cheese and crackers. And on the last day, they finally said, look, let's just splurge. Because, you know, on these trips, they have these huge amounts of food and desserts and they went for everything. And they got the wine, everything else. And then they asked for the check at the end. And you know how the story ends, right?

• 56:42Chris Williamson?

  It was all inclusive.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  Comes out, goes, it's all inclusive. It came with a trip. And they look at each other and go, this is how we've been living our lives. That's how most people live their lives. They're so miserly. What'll make you do that more is if you actually get into giving. Because one of the things that made me grow more than anything else was when I started to tithe. Because I interviewed multiple people, but I interviewed Templeton. And at the time, you know, he was the first billionaire investor. He was a brilliant man, such a good-hearted guy. I met him multiple times, interviewed him. And he said, Tony, I asked him, what's the secret to wealth? He said, you teach it. I said, well, I teach a lot of things, which is, he goes, it's gratitude. If you're grateful about anything,

• 57:27Speaker 01

  you're going to be rich. If you have a billion dollars and you're not grateful, you're unhappy. If you got three beautiful kids and a wife, you're not grateful, you don't have a life. Gratitude's the secret. But he said, I will tell you this. If you really want to be wealthy, I don't know anyone who's tithe at least 10%. Doesn't have to be to a religion, to something, for more than a decade that didn't become incredibly wealthy. So I'm proud to say I've done 17%. I've gone way above my pay grade, but the rewards have may have been unbelievable. And I, I started out feeding two families. Then I figured out about 2014, I said, I found out in 37 years, I'd fed at that point 42 million people. It was pretty exciting. But I was like, what if I fed that many people in one year? What if I fed 100 million people in a year? What if I fed 100 people, a million people a year for 10 straight

• 58:11Speaker 01

  years? A billion meals? And I teamed up feeding America to deliver the food and I did in eight years. And when I started, it seemed impossible. Then I said, I'm going to do 100 billion meals around the world. Because I travel around the world, you see people starving, right? And I recruited Governor Beasley, who's the head of the UN, of the World Food Program. He won the Nobel Prize. But when he started, there were 85 million people starving. Now there's 385 million people. I said, we'll put together a strike force. We'll do this better, but we're going to make it measurable. I said, like, what's the number of meals we need for the next 10 years to be able to feed most people in the world? And then during those 10 years, we've got to find the sustainable solution because you can't do charity forever. He goes, Tony, I don't know, 40, 50, 60 billion meals. I said, we'll do 100 billion meal challenge for the 10 years. He goes, Tony,

• 58:55Speaker 01

  you're never getting 100 billion meals. I said, I did a billion meals. I wasn't a billionaire when I started. I've been blessed. When you bless others, you get blessed. And I said, if there's at least 99 people like me. So we went to the Forbes, you know, philanthropy event. I brought him to speak. He's amazing. I spoke. People were in tears. I thought, we're going to get 50 out of the 100. We're going to do half of it right here. Five people signed up. But in the last four years, by changing our approach, I started this year at sixty two billion meals. Right now, I have commitments for two hundred and ninety five billion meals in four years and sixty three billion have already been delivered. So scaling that has changed

• 59:38Speaker 01

  things. I said, you know, I'm a private, I'm a private jet. It burns fuel. I don't want to be incongruent. How do I replace more than what I put out here? I burn five thousand trees a year. Guess what? I planted a hundred million trees. I not only just planted them, but then showed the people there how to build crops every single month and built a forest farm for them in West Africa, program this there. We, my wife and I have like saw what's happening with some friends of ours, some trafficking that happened with children. No one wants to talk about it. So I set a goal. I said, we're going to free thirty thousand children. I went on one of these missions myself, undercover with scars all over my face. It was the most horrific thing I've ever done.

• 1:00:14Chris Williamson?

  Fuck me. I do not want to be faced by you in a dark alley.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  Well, you want to be faced by the people I dealt with in that dark alley. But I had with a group of SEAL Team Six guys that are brilliant. It was an undercover operation. Some will never get as long as they live. But when those kids were freed, it was one of the greatest gifts of my life. So we've now freed over a hundred thousand children. And I've got a target of a million. When those are your goals, you build businesses a different way. That's why now I'm doing twenty two billion dollars. I wasn't doing numbers like that before. I didn't have all these companies. It's like I have a higher purpose in building them. All those businesses serve people. They provide things that are life changing in terms of value for people, provide jobs. But in addition to all that, I have a higher purpose than what I'm doing. That will make you earn more, grow more, expand more, find answers you never found before. It's like you need something compelling. If

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  all you're trying to do is make a living or just cover your overhead, you're never going to find the answers. You're never going to push yourself to discover what's possible.

• 1:01:10Chris Williamson?

  Or if the only reason that you're earning money is to reinvest the money, to never actually take it out, to never actually enjoy it. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  But there are people that do that and they die that way and just pass the money on to somebody else.

• 1:01:21Chris Williamson?

  What do you think beyond the giving thing, which I know is probably the high, oddly enough, being selfless is the most selfish thing that you can do.

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  Exactly. You get the most reward possible.

• 1:01:29Chris Williamson?

  Beyond that, what do you think for a normal person who's maybe not quite, we're going to fix world hunger or buy a jet. What are some of the areas where people can derive a lot of satisfaction, joy in life from spending money? Someone's being responsible, they're maybe doing some of the investment. They've got their one third and one third. That third third, what's, what is some of the places that you think, hey, this is somewhere that you really should look at spending money to improve your quality of life that people might not think about from, from the gag.

• 1:01:58Speaker 01

  I still think, here's what I want to say. I have a friend that was on an airplane recently. I've known him forty five, forty four years. And someone was reading one of my books. And he said, you know, he always left, what do you think of the book? Oh, it's my, my energy book, right? About your body. And it's unbelievable. And the stem cells and all these things. And, and you know, and he said, what do you think of the author? He goes, well, he's a really good guy. Donated a hundred percent of the book. By the way, we've done that with Holy Grail Investing too. We don't take a dime. We give it all to feeding America. And he says, that's really cool. He goes, but you know, he's rich, so it must be easy. And my friend Mike says to us, his name's Mike Keyes, he said, what if I told you I've known Tony for forty five years? I had known him when he was seventeen, and he had twenty dollars in his pocket, and he didn't know where his next meal is going to give. And he gave half of it to a guy in the street that was begging for it.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  And Tony taught me something then. If you don't give a dime out of a dollar, you're never going to give ten million out of a hundred million. The first place you should start is giving. I have a friend that started out feeding two or three people. He's had a million, he's had a million people now in the last ten years that come on this little trip with me, just finding little ways to help and make a difference. So you can start small and do things. And then in terms of what are the things that people do that go in their dream bucket besides contribution? It's usually like little things. If you are at Starbucks, and they've proven this because they can measure what happens now with the secretions in your mouth, the hormone changes, nothing comes close. The three things that give you the most joy are number one, experiences. Experiences are more than any toy or asset

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  because those we get used to. But if you create experiences, people remember them. The second thing, though, is giving to someone else. If you go and you buy the next five people or ten people at Starbucks, their coffee, you don't even know. The transformation in your biochemistry, the level of internal joy that people carry is greater than people that spend millions of dollars on something that are doing it for positioning purposes. Like, oh, I gave this money to charity type of thing. You can see a change in that area. Then what people do that gives them joy is all the little things. It could be just, you know, doing something special for your kids. It can be saying, we're going to do a first class ticket to Europe this time instead of a coach class, just for this element. We're going to upscale something in our life that feels like a greater quality of life and brings

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  us joy. If that joy and pleasure is there, you're going to have the desire to invest more, grow more, expand more, be, be masterful in this area of your life.

• 1:04:17Chris Williamson?

  It's really interesting to think about the positive reward that people get from investing their money, that nobody ever actually ends up withdrawing to improve their quality of life. I'm just continuing to put money and continuing to put money in and never paying it back down. I think a few areas that people would probably be surprised, getting a maid or a cleaner for your house.

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 1:04:36Chris Williamson?

  Somebody to do the gardening. Some people like the gardening. Some people think that it is hell. Those, it is one of the first places that you can do, not just what is it that I want? What is it that I don't enjoy doing? And how is that sapping?

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  And what could give me, and what gives me more time?

• 1:04:51Chris Williamson?

  Yes.

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  Because probably the most scarce thing for human beings today outside of money is time.

• 1:04:55Chris Williamson?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  Right? Because now so much of our time we allow to control. I mean, we used to spend six hours on screens. Then, you know, people were stuck at home during COVID. It went to thirteen hours and it has not gone back. People walked down the streets staring at it. So it's not that we have less time. It's just that we allow everything else to engage us. And if you can free up time with a small amount of money, it gives you a totally different experience.

• 1:05:17Speaker 02

  Well, the other thing that's a beautiful thing about that is it's not just the time that somebody gets, it's the opportunity that it creates.

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  So being able to allow someone else to be able to earn a living, to be able to do what they're really good at, what they enjoy, what's positive flow for them, and at the same time is also rewarding for us. That's a wonderful thing to be able to do, to be able to make memories for our family, to be able to make memories for friends, to be able to give them things that they might not ever be able to do on their own. And it doesn't have to be expensive, but to be creative. So certainly for somebody who's an investor and they've done well, to be able to harvest some of that and go, you know what? This was well earned. I'm going to make sure that I pay it back either through charitable contribution or through making memories for friends or family, or to be able to provide opportunity for other people to earn a living and to be able to feed their family, whatever that

• 1:06:04Speaker 02

  may be. That why, and I'll quote him, the bigger the why, the harder we try. Ultimately, that is what delivers happiness for people when they are looking at something that is just a nebular number and keeping score. It has to be for a purpose. That purpose is what ultimately goes, causes them to not only make good decisions, but also to have staying power to go, this is worth it.

• 1:06:27Chris Williamson?

  It's interesting, right? Money is a number on a spreadsheet or a number on your bank balance on your phone. And it's only when you actually end up trading it in for something in the real world that it becomes anything. It's just a number. It doesn't, and it could be, like, you could look at it as dollars, but it could be hyperinflation, South African money, if you didn't know, because until you end up trading it in, the number is kind of arbitrary.

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  It's just a symbol.

• 1:06:48Chris Williamson?

  Yeah, it doesn't make any difference. A quick aside, you've probably heard me talk about Element before, and that's because I've started every single morning the same way for the last five years now, which is a cold glass of water with elements in it. Element is an electrolyte drink mix with everything that you need and nothing that you don't. It's a science backed electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium and magnesium. No sugar, no coloring, no artificial ingredients. It reduces muscle cramps and fatigue, supports brain function and helps to regulate your appetite throughout the day. I genuinely notice the difference when I take it versus when I don't, which is why I don't shut up about it. And also why it's used by everyone, from Dr. Andrew Huberman to Olympic athletes and FBI sniper teams, the good sniper teams, not the bad ones. Also, they have no questions asked refund policy. So if you don't like it for any reason, they'll just give you

• 1:07:31Chris Williamson?

  your money back. Plus, they offer free shipping in the US. Right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below, heading to drinklmnt.com/ModernWisdom. That's drinklmnt.com/ModernWisdom. Okay, you mentioned about AI earlier on. What are the, how are you thinking about AI as a future? And what are the opportunities in AI that people aren't seeing at the moment?

• 1:07:56Speaker 01

  Well, we invested in Anthropic and ChatGPT. I mean, Anthropic went in twenty twenty five, started a billion, went to ten, and now by April, it was forty four billion this year. There's been nothing like it. It's unbelievable. But I think there, it's important to understand the thesis for investing. You know, I ask most people, if I said to you in the next ten years, do you believe there'll be more change to humanity than in the history of all of humanity? What would you say?

• 1:08:20Speaker 02

  Well, depends how RSI goes, maybe, maybe.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Most people would say yes, because I've asked millions, tens of thousands of people. Then I say to them, it's like, if I have a 10 year goal to feed a billion people, it doesn't mean anything unless you pull it to here. And they say, like, what does that mean this year? Oh, I fed 42 million people in 37 years. I get to do 100 million this year to get to a billion. That calls you to action. So what I've been doing with people is saying, so what if I told you in the next 36 months, there'll be as much change as probably you've ever experienced in your lifetime for humanity. Almost everybody agrees, especially when you point out three things. AGI, we'll have AGI in the next 36 months. Some people would argue we already have it. That means one agent has more power in one category, chemistry, mathematics,

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  whatever it is than any human being, pretty much there. Ray Kurzweil predicted that this would happen in 90, that we'd have this within three years. And now back in 1990, right? And he's now, I interviewed him the other day and he said, I was conservative. It's going to happen sooner. In five to six years, we'll have superintelligence. That means one agent will have the power of all human minds combined. When that happens, the world changes so radically. Second piece, quantum. I was just with the vice chairman of IBM. We're talking about AI and I said, I'm concerned that, look, there's people, there's no safety because everybody's going for the trillion dollar target. And if they don't do it, there's the stick of China taking over, right? So there's not a look at this. He goes, well, if you're concerned about that, be more concerned about quantum.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  He said, because quantum, whoever gets quantum first can basically make the other military defunct. We don't have to even have the missiles. We can get their codes and fire things off.

• 1:10:04Speaker 02

  Breaks all encryption.

• 1:10:05Speaker 01

  It's, and you've all been here in quantum is 15 years, 70. He said, when I asked him, when's it going to happen? He goes, between us and, and Google, we're the two drivers. China's a little bit behind, but not much. He said, it's critically important, 36 months. You know, you go over and you see, if you've been up to, to see Brett Adcock and his group up there at Figure AI, you walk in this building and it is like you're in the future. There's nothing but robots everywhere doing everything, not robots like you see in China. You know, they're robotic and they do karate and you know, they're running a program, thinking robots that make things happen. It's happening right now as we speak. So all of this is happening. Now, maybe it's more than 36 months on the robots, probably for some of them.

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  But at some point, there'll be more robots than humans, right? Between him and Elon, you can guess that for sure, not to mention what China's doing. So we're living in a time where there'll be more change than any time in history. So you have to say, what does that do? To me, I look at my thesis and say, that means if you don't have agents as a company in the next 36 months, your chances of competing are quite small. They're not getting implemented right now because there's a fear level. 60% of, most CEOs think the AI is going to be the greatest thing in the world. But if you see what Microsoft just talked about, 94% of these AI projects never get integrated. That's why they're not producing them. And yet, the ones that do, it disrupts it.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  You heard all the frontier companies were all talking about, hey, you know, it's going to disrupt jobs. You got to be prepared and that didn't go real well. So now they're going to create more jobs. They are right, they will create more jobs. But in the time period, they're going to disrupt those smaller jobs. And that's a mass number of people that are going to need reskilling. So I look and go, we want to be in a position of helping companies bring on agents, not to replace people, to empower them. The way we get it, we, when we're with Salesforce, we just now, we have the people out here from the UAE because they want to make their entire government agentic. And so we're working with them. The reason they're working with us is we have a different approach. Our approach is we don't pick some giant AI in the sky where you put everything there because if something breaks down, you don't know what caused it. We create these micro little AIs.

• 1:12:14Speaker 01

  And what we do is we look at people's workflow and you find out that 60% of what people do is busy work. And so they don't like busy work, but they're caught up in it. Your head of marketing is making a PDF. I mean, what, what the hell are you doing, right? So now what we do is we give them an agent that is their assistant. We have a scanning device that shows all of where they spend the work. It shows it and you put them to work. It doesn't replace your job, it makes you more powerful. That's a way of integrating. We got to reskill a mass number of Americans. That's a whole nother element, not only America, but the rest of the world. And then we got to get people prepared for a world of uncertainty. Most of us have been living with rented certainty. The certainty, what I mean by rented is we're certain because we have a certain job. We have a certain income, we have a certain family, have a certain way of being.

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  All that goes away when your house burns down or when all of a sudden you lose your job or when all of a sudden somebody in the family gets injured or hurt or there's a disease or something of that nature. Well, we're going to see that certainty shattered by the pace of change. And so we have to prepare people for that. So for myself, I look at this as a triangle of impacts. So I'm in the business of bringing companies agentic. I'm doing it with Salesforce. I'm actually doing the integration for them at their upcoming event in September here. I'm working on getting people debt free college education. We have a company out that's, one of the biggest problems is how do you reskill people rapidly? Well, traditionally you try to teach a mass number of people and not many people have the skill as a teacher to do that.

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  So you get one sigma improvement if you can make the class size small. There's always been the two sigma problem that we've known for 40 years. And that is you take an average student and give them one on one mentoring, they outproduce 98% of the class, but it's been too expensive. But with agentic AI, now we have it. So we take people now that just lost their jobs. We give them a guaranteed new skills, new life, no debt. Do you know what the largest debt in America is? Mortgage. You know what the number two is? Student debt, $1.8 trillion student debt. A four year college education takes on average 20 years to pay off. President Obama, when he was a senator, was still paying off some of his college debt right before he ran for president, to give you an idea. So we're going to create a solution in that area.

• 1:14:27Speaker 01

  And then I'm working with the guys that built Calm, if you remember Calm, the largest app in the world for meditation. These guys built it and sold it for a billion and a half, I think it was. I sat down with them and said, listen, we need more therapists. And even if you have the best therapists in the world, there aren't enough. And people are now going to chat GPT and I'm sure you saw, there's all these lawsuits. 1.3 million people a week asked chat GPT about suicide. The other day, there's another article about a woman committed suicide and the chat GPT not only explained how to do it, but it wrote her suicide note, right? These are made for sycophancy. They're designed to keep you online talking. They're not designed to actually help you to change. So I built something with them where we have now technology that reads your micro expressions.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  So you're on screen, you see every emotion you're feeling. It's not just an LLM and has auditory elements. We spent $30 million spent to identify what auditory elements mean, what emotions you're having. So if you and I are sitting here and I say, how's it going? And you go, fine, or you go, fine, or you go, fine. The LLM just sees fine, but you and I see something completely different. So we can interact. And if it's something that's suicidal, it moves it up to 988. So think about this, there's 11 million veterans in this country. We have 2,000 therapists for them. It takes four months to see one. Most veterans don't want to talk to a therapist. They don't want to talk to a female therapist. They find a lot of male guys don't. It's, it makes them feel weak. They're not going to go spend four months and 17 are killing himself every day.

• 1:15:55Speaker 01

  For 90% less money, we can be there 24/7, 365, helping them with something that's proven and has a track record. So I think you have to have a thesis, like what's happening in the world? And where's it going? Just like the thesis of there's going to be 5% more spending of, of the GDP of all these countries. Then that means you probably should be looking at something on the military side. If you want to have a growth investment, what's your thesis for investing? That's mine for where I'm putting my primary time and energy. But we have a series of theses of where you can make a difference. And so you might even touch on some of the other areas like energy.

• 1:16:30Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, when you think about the world of AI, it's touching every aspect of it. But one of the things that is absolutely incumbent is you have to have energy to be able to power it. If you don't have enough energy, you don't have the ability to do AI of any type, any form, any substance. And everybody's talking about that with data centers. But no one really wants to admit how far behind the production of energy we are. And to be very clear, we're for all kinds of energy, from traditional to sustainable to transitional, whatever you want to call it. We're going to need all of the above in order to be able to meet the enormous demand growth. That's not just coming from AI. It's coming from the fact that billions of people are moving up in their economic situation.

• 1:17:12Speaker 02

  When somebody goes from lower income to middle income, they want a lot more power and a lot more energy. When somebody goes from middle income to higher income, they consume a lot more energy. So all of it is the same growth curve as far as demand. But what's not changed is supply. And the amount of supply that's out there is basically flatlining or growing very, very little. Those lines are expected to cross in 2028, where we will literally not have as much power as we need to be able to meet all the demand. You're talking about the data centers alone in this country will consume more power than all of New York City. Just the data centers than that one city in literally three years to five years.

• 1:17:54Speaker 02

  That is something that we have to meet the demand of. But again, it's not just data centers. So we don't want to demonize data centers. It's the consumption of AI. And obviously, if the United States is going to compete in the world of AI, the AI arms race, if you will, then we have to have the power to do it because I assure you that China and other countries are going to be putting all the demand, all the supply out there that they need to be able to meet the AI demand.

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  We need 50% more energy by 2035, 50% more than we're doing right now. So that means we've got to use all forms of energy and energy because of the way we've approached it recently has been a tremendous opportunity. Give them a sense of what kinds of changes we've seen.

• 1:18:32Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, we've seen to where there were so many people chasing energy as an investment asset class to where people decided for reasons that they have the freedom to decide that they didn't want to invest in fossil fuels and traditional energy. So we have a very simple metric that we follow called the reserve replacement ratio. And in the book, we talk about it, you know, anybody who's been a teenager or had a teenager, if they know that the milk is full at the beginning of the day, if they don't go buy more milk, by the end of the day, it's going to be less full, right? And eventually they're going to run out of milk. Well, that's exactly what it is with energy because this stuff doesn't last forever. It depletes, it goes away, just like the milk carton. So somebody has to go replenish the milk.

• 1:19:11Speaker 02

  And so far in this decade, for every one unit of energy that we're consuming, we're only replacing point two of that energy. So we're consuming it five times faster the rate than what we're creating new energy. And it's not like you can flip a switch. It takes years to get major energy resources online. So we are way behind and unfortunately that's going to cross, which creates the opportunity to where, you know, as an example, in some cases, because there's just not that many people investing in it, we're able to buy things at three times cash flow or four times cash flow. And we've seen enormous returns because we're willing to invest all across the energy spectrum, and that includes nuclear and other places where there's great opportunity.

• 1:19:56Speaker 02

  But it's going to take all of it. And those that provide the capital are going to be very well rewarded for doing so.

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  I want to mention to catch back also that anybody who's in a position like I have a brother in law that's 60 years old, he's a software engineer, but you know, the Gary gentleman who's the vice chairman of IBM told me his daughter was crunching code and used to get a million dollars for a nine month project because she's one of the best in the world to crunch code. Now it's done by an agent in four days for free. She doesn't have a job, but she's pregnant, so she has a future and they have money. So he's not worried about her. But people are being disrupted. The biggest challenge is how do they get reeducated? So we have an ability to do this. And if they go to unitedcolleges.org, unitedcolleges.org, they can apply and see what type of jobs

• 1:20:45Speaker 01

  are actually out there in demand, what professions they could tap into to retool themselves. And they can do it at their own tempo with an agent that knows everything about you, knows you love soccer, teaches you how to do that, adapts to your training capacity and gives you that skill. So I just want to plant that seed for people because so many people are being disrupted. The guy's 60 years old, he walks in, 650 people are let go that morning. He's one of them and in the company 25 years, no economic plan to back him up, no back, no severance. And guess what? They took the whole thing agentic, sold to a Swedish company. He's got two kids in college. He's got a wife that's a substitute teacher, makes $30,000 a year and he's got a mortgage. What's he going to do? He can't go try and get some new education at that and pay for that piece and go further in debt.

• 1:21:30Speaker 01

  So we're solving that aspect to give you an idea. So while there's opportunity everywhere, disruption still means if you retool yourself, you can take advantage. Anybody can still do well in this world. People say, you know, is it possible really to do well financially? Is the game rigged? The game is still a game you can absolutely win, but you got to learn and you got to take a little bit of time to understand what's possible. And you had to at least give yourself a short period of time where you say, I'm going to find a diversification of eight to 12 uncorrelated assets and reduce my risk 80% while I'm working on my job or my career or whatever else I'm doing. So that's my other business that's going to protect me. Because social security at this point is not probably going to be enough for anybody if it's even here later on for people to have a quality of life that they need.

• 1:22:14Chris Williamson?

  It seems like there's a lot of change happening in the world and that means that people are going to get scared. Lots of people get stuck thinking and overthinking a decision. They'd spend so much time worrying about what decision to make that their life sort of turns into a relationship with the internal drama of the decision itself. Obviously you've spent a lot of time thinking about human psychology, human nature and behavior. Have you got a framework inside of finance or outside of it generally in life for becoming better at the decision making process? How do you think about making decisions?

• 1:22:40Speaker 01

  I have a very specific process. It takes a little time to explain, but it hears its essence. The most important thing in decision making is value clarification. Well, you know what's most important to you, you can make a decision. Most people are trying to hit multiple targets at once. I want to do this and if I do that and work, what if I do that, but then that works? But what if I do? And they do it in their head. So the first piece is it's got to be done on your computer, on paper, outside your head. You've got to start with, I call it O O C E M R, real quick. O is you start with the outcomes. What are the outcomes? What do I, what am I want from this decision? What's the most, and then you've got to rate them in order of importance. They're not all equal. I want a job that's going to do this, this and this. Okay. Well, is it the money the most important? Is it the lifestyle that's most important? Is it the quality of who you're going to be around?

• 1:23:25Speaker 01

  You have to rate the importance because you may not get them all equally. We want to make sure what's most important to you get. Once I do the outcomes clearly, now I need to know what are my options? And the delusion is one choice is no choice. Two choices is a dilemma. There's at least three choices always. And if you live that principle, you'll find it. When you usually get three, you'll find four or five. And I get people to come up with options they haven't thought of before. You go, okay, don't judge them yet, right? So outcomes, oh, oh, okay. What are my options? See, what are the consequences? So now I look at each option and say, okay, what's the upside or downside of each one? And I make the list in paper, not in my head, you know, I have actually a computer program I designed for this. And so now I can see upsides, downsides. Okay, I've done half of it.

• 1:24:11Speaker 01

  Now EMR, now I need to evaluate. I need to value it. Okay, there's this upside and the downside, but what's the probability of it happening? Like you might say, oh, I could lose everything. Okay, but what's the probability? Or oh, I'll make a billion, but what's the probability? Is it 90%, 10%, 5%? That starts for you to really evaluate what your better options are. And now what will happen is some of those options will be clear to you, they don't make sense. So the M is mitigate. I might end up with two or three options here and I go, okay, well, how do I get the best of this one and this one? What could I do to combine them? There's a new way to do this and I teach that process. And then the R is resolve, O O C E M R. The resolve, this is what I'm going to do because in the end, everybody wants to make a decision they're certain about.

• 1:24:54Speaker 01

  This will get you about as certain as you can get, but at the same time, there is no absolute certainty. I mean, if you're a leader, you're paid for making difficult decisions. I was with General Schwarzkopf years ago, when the first, that's how old I am, the first war we had in the Middle East there and when we're dealing with Saddam. And he was brilliant. And I asked him, because he was a very decisive guy and I asked him, you know, how is it you make the tough decisions? And he said, when I was a private, he goes, I worked for a general. And this general was a tough guy, he was a four star general. And he said, one day they found out that there had been a decision that the Pentagon had struggled with for 20 years, a very giant strategic decision. And the general was finally going to make the decision what to happen.

• 1:25:39Speaker 01

  So they sent reams of binders of information in to have him evaluate. And four days before they're getting all these, there's an army, he said, like five people helping to organize this for the general and summarize it. The general had to fly overseas and he didn't get back till the night before. So he said, General, we got to cancel the meeting. You're not prepared. He goes, no, the meeting goes forward, 8:30 in the morning. Shows up at 8:30 in the morning and he's freaked out. It's like, there's no way the general knows enough to make this decision. General says, okay, give me what you got, you have 15 minutes. They go, they give this and tell me your side, give me 15 minutes. Soon as it's done, he stood up and he said, that's what we're doing. Everybody stood up, saluted the general with, this is a decision that I've been made for 10 years, really strategic decision.

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  So Schwarzkopf tells me, he said, he's freaking out inside. So when everybody leaves, he goes and knocks on the general's door and says, permission to speak openly? He said, Eddie's, he goes, General, I'm the chief of staff here. There's no way you know enough information to make this decision. You, you, I mean, there's reams more of information for you to know. He said, yes. He said, how could you make that decision? He said, because the decision needed to be made. No one's done it for 10 years. I got enough information to make a decision. I made one. Now if we're wrong, I'm going to find out quicker because we're going to do something. And if we're right, we're going to move forward. He goes, I never forgot that. He said, then I got one more lesson from him. One time, general was leaving again and he said, you're in charge. I'm going to be on for 10 days, make whatever decisions are necessary. And he's freaking out because this is a private, right?

• 1:27:07Speaker 01

  He goes, well, but, but sir, but sir, I like, I don't, I don't know what to do. He goes, when you put in command, take charge. He said, rule 13. He goes, what's rule 13? Put in command, take charge. He's leaving, goes, sir, but, but I don't know what to do. He said, rule 14. What's rule 14? He goes, do what's right. Do what's right. You know, you build decision making muscles by making more decisions. Some people have a hard time deciding what they're at for dinner. You've been with somebody and everybody else is ordered, they still can't decide, you know, they have weak decision making muscles. Decide. And the more you decide, the stronger you get. But this O O C M R, knowing my outcomes, because that's what it's about, value clarification,

• 1:27:48Speaker 01

  knowing my options, knowing the consequences, evaluating probability, mitigating to come up with a better solution and resolving, that's the six steps that I use and teach people.

• 1:27:57Speaker 02

  And every single thing he just talks about applies to finances and investment management 100%. So if somebody doesn't know what they're trying to achieve, or they're trying to make a 30% return or a 3% return, if they don't know why that's important, if they're not willing to take the volatility that it takes, and then look at the probability adjusted outcome of that investment, then they can't make a good decision. Which is why, going back to what I said earlier, it's all about investing based on percentages, not on dollars. If somebody's like, it's a million dollars, that's a lot of money. It is a lot of money and that you don't want to lose it. But if it's 1% of your portfolio and it goes to zero, that's going to suck, but it's not going to be fatal, right? So it's a liberating and it's freeing for somebody to be able to be much more analytical, less emotional. And every single professional investor will say the same thing.

• 1:28:43Speaker 02

  Emotion is the enemy to investment success, period. So you have to be clinical and you have to remove the emotion. And the only way to do that is have a consistent process that is based on percentages that say, okay, if this happens, I can live with it. And at that worst case, I can live with, the upside will take care of itself. And all of that applies exactly what Tony just described.

• 1:29:05Chris Williamson?

  Okay, boys, I appreciate both of you. Why should people go to find out more about what's going on?

• 1:29:10Speaker 02

  So he's got a whole lot of different places you can go to. Ours is simple, kazinvestments.com. That's where you can learn everything about what we're doing as a firm. And obviously he's got all the various things he's involved in.

• 1:29:19Speaker 01

  TonyRobbins.com and you can see anything in business that we're involved in. And we've got an event coming up shortly here. We do only a few events a year now, really large ones. We have 17,000 people here in Miami for four days called Unleash the Power Within. So if anybody's interested in that, they can reach out to us as well.

• 1:29:34Speaker 02

  Well, I can just tell you this, having gone through the tape series in 1991 and not going to my first, you know, opportunity to go to a live event until 2013, don't wait that long. Folks that like and follow Tony and have learned a lot from Tony, go to a live event. It's completely different than anything that you could expect to do just through the tape. It was life changing for me and I know many other people.

• 1:29:58Chris Williamson?

  What date is that?

• 1:29:58Speaker 02

  It's the same way.

• 1:29:59Speaker 01

  What date is it? It's coming up in November. I think it's fourth, fifth and sixth.

• 1:30:03Chris Williamson?

  Boys, I appreciate both of you.

• 1:30:05Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having us. We appreciate it.

• 1:30:07Speaker 01

  Be with you again.

• 1:30:10Speaker 03

  I'm not giving up.

• 1:30:11Speaker 02

  I am selling the building.

• 1:30:15Speaker 04

  The final season of FX is the bear. The restaurant is flooded.

• 1:30:21Speaker 03

  Everything's either going to be okay. No, stop.

• 1:30:25Speaker 04

  Or not.

• 1:30:27Speaker 03

  We are outgunned and we are outmanned, but we have each other.

• 1:30:32Speaker 04

  FX is the bear, the final season. All episodes now streaming on Disney plus.