Massimo Bottura on the future of food and creativity

What role might artificial intelligence play in making the perfect meal? How will AI transform food creation—and creation more generally? Massimo Bottura—legendary Italian chef and entrepreneur—joins Possible to talk about the future of food, human creativity, and how technology factors in. Massimo, Aria, and Reid discuss the roles of joy and innovation in fine dining, technology’s potential to enhance human connection, and Food For Soul, the nonprofit Massimo and his wife Lara created to turn surplus food into incredible community meals for people in need around the world. Plus, Massimo reacts to a few AI surprises, including: Reid’s avatar speaking Italian; Pi’s predictions about restaurants of the future; and a customized copy of Reid’s book, Impromptu, that includes a personalized section for Massimo. Read the transcript of this episode here. For more info on the podcast and transcripts of all the episodes, visit https://www.possible.fm/podcast/ Topics: 3:36 - Hellos and intros 4:24 - Reid’s AI avatar has a message for Massimo 7:02 - The relationship between invention and human connection 13:14 - Joy and innovation in fine dining 20:16 - Discussing Massimo’s custom copy of Impromptu 27:32 - Massimo’s work for the next generation 31:03 - Food for Soul 38:32 - Slow Food, Fast Cars 21:46 - Pi’s thoughts on restaurants 50 years in the future 41:34 - Rapidfire Questions Select mentions: Food for Soul Slow Food, Fast Cars by Massimo Bottura and Lara Gilmore Reid’s 2023 Bologna Business School commencement speech Gastromotiva founder David Hertz Possible is an award-winning podcast that sketches out the brightest version of the future—and what it will take to get there. Most of all, it asks: what if, in the future, everything breaks humanity's way? Tune in for grounded and speculative takes on how technology—and, in particular, AI—is inspiring change and transforming the future. Hosted by Reid Hoffman and Aria Finger, each episode features an interview with an ambitious builder or deep thinker on a topic, from art to geopolitics and from healthcare to education. These conversations also showcase another kind of guest: AI. Whether it's Inflection’s Pi, OpenAI’s ChatGPT or other AI tools, each episode will use AI to enhance and advance our discussion about what humanity could possibly get right if we leverage technology—and our collective effort—effectively.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  The only way for me to develop things is through my mental palette. No, but the dialogue with artificial intelligence is about putting kiwi close to oysters. You know, and it's not something familiar for me, but it's something interesting to understand. One of the key points for me to evolve and create future, it's about having doubt, not having something, oh, I know everything. No, I don't. I have doubt. So I walk into the kitchen with doubt and I have to give answer to this doubt.

• 0:48Reid Hoffman?

  Hi, I'm Reid Hoffman.

• 0:50Aria Finger?

  And I'm Aria Finkler.

• 0:51Reid Hoffman?

  We want to know what happens if in the future, everything breaks humanity's way? What we can possibly get right if we leverage technology like AI and our collective effort effectively?

• 1:03Aria Finger?

  We're speaking with technologists, ambitious builders, and deep thinkers across many fields: AI, geopolitics, media, healthcare, education, and more.

• 1:14Reid Hoffman?

  These conversations showcase another kind of guest, whether it's Inflection's Pi, OpenAI's GPT-4, or other AI tools. Each episode, we use AI to enhance and advance our discussion.

• 1:26Aria Finger?

  In each episode, we seek out the brightest version of the future and learn what it'll take to get there.

• 1:33Reid Hoffman?

  This is possible.

• 1:42Reid Hoffman?

  Last September, I traveled to Italy to give the commencement speech at the Bologna Business School at the University of Bologna, the oldest university in the Western world.

• 1:52Reid Hoffman?

  The energy that day was palpable with students, their families, faculty, tourists and locals gathered together in the Piazza Maggiore. The only other time that trip that I felt that level of sustained energy, joia de viva and excitement was from our guest today, Massimo Bottura.

• 2:12Aria Finger?

  Absolutely. For anyone who doesn't know, legendary restaurateur and chef, Massimo Bottura just watched the first episode of the first season of Chef's Table. Massimo is known for taking traditional Italian dishes and turning them on their head.

• 2:28Reid Hoffman?

  That's right. And what he's done for food, for restaurants, for Italy. It's an inspiration to anyone who wants to have ripple effects well beyond their organization or industry, or even their lifetime. Massimo is a part chef, part philosopher, part inventor, part philanthropist, part futurist. And he's here to talk with us about the future of food, human creativity, and how technology factors in.

• 2:57Aria Finger?

  A restaurateur and entrepreneur for more than 30 years, Massimo Bottura is among the most innovative, influential personalities in the world gastronomic scene. In 1995, he opened his restaurant, Austria Francescana, in Modena, Italy, his hometown. The restaurant's numerous awards, three Michelin stars in 2012, and first place on the world's 50 best restaurants list in 2016 and 2018, helped to cement the chef's reputation globally.

• 3:27Reid Hoffman?

  So I am super delighted to be here with Massimo Bottura.

• 3:36Reid Hoffman?

  Entrepreneurs and technologists might be kind of like, huh, this amazing chef. Why are we, are we doing the show? Massimo, how do you think about, you describe yourself in terms of what you do? What is the, what is the symphony across different things?

• 3:53Speaker 00

  I'm a chef, an entrepreneur.

• 3:58Speaker 00

  I'm, but my mind, if I have to look deep into my mind, I think I am a renaissance man. You know, our small restaurants are kind of renaissance atelier, where we create culture, we develop knowledge.

• 4:19Speaker 00

  Consciousness, sense of responsibility. This is what we are, who I am.

• 4:25Aria Finger?

  Massimo, one of the things we want to kick off with is we've all been playing around with an AI version of Reid, so that Reid can replicate himself and do so much more. So we made a special video just for you. So just press play on that video and take a look.

• 4:42Speaker 03

  Saluti Massimo, sono un tuo grande ammiratore. Nel tuo libro "Non fidarti mai" di uno chef italiano magro dici: "La tradizione non sta nel preservare le ceneri, ma nel passare la fiamma." Mentre guardiamo al futuro della cucina, come vedi i cuochi bilanciare la necessità di innovare, pur onorando ancora il loro patrimonio culinario?

• 5:06Reid Hoffman?

  So what did I say?

• 5:06Speaker 00

  So, you know, you said exactly what I always say. Evolving, evolving tradition, it's a very important exercise, because it's about looking at the past, and don't forget about the past, but looking at the past, but in a critic way, not in a nostalgic one, not the ashes, but the flame. And looking at the past in a critic way, you can split and get the best from the past into the future. What we, I was talking yesterday night about the crunchy part of the lasagna. I don't care about eating

• 5:47Speaker 00

  a big slice of lasagna, I care about eating emotions. So that's how you evolve cuisine, how you recreate a new tradition, evolve tradition, because otherwise they're gonna be dusty, and you don't want that. You want the future, because in my mind, there's always future. I was born like that. So in my future, there will be always future. But future is not a place, future is a state of mind. So it's your mind that is driving you, guiding you into the future. This is what we were talking about.

• 6:25Aria Finger?

  So how was Reid's Italian?

• 6:26Speaker 00

  It was perfect.

• 6:30Speaker 00

  Amazing.

• 6:31Reid Hoffman?

  Well, it's one of the things that we want to kind of show is that through technology, we can actually become more human. And so, for example, obviously, I speak like no Italian, you know, ciao bene, you know, like almost no Italian. But like through this, you can actually create more human connection. That's one of the things I love about your work. I mean, as part of what we first learned at Casta Luigi last night here in San Francisco at the Refitorio, is the food and the experience is part of the human connection. So how do you, how do you kind of think about like what that creation is and that the interface point between the, the, the technology of, of what you're inventing and that human connection?

• 7:15Speaker 00

  I keep saying to my team, to every guest that come from all over the world to Osservi Francesca, that you don't come to eat good food, you know? You come to eat emotions. Okay, so I am, I grew up in a very large family with, you know, the culture of food deeply into our DNA. I keep saying that my muscles are made by Parmigiano Reggiano and in my vein, there's a lot of balsamic vinegar. Okay, I drank too much Lambrusco and saw the bubbling, you know, they make me a little bit cuckoo, but it's okay. I love it.

• 7:59Speaker 00

  And so I'm stay up there. But what I want is like they, all our amazing guests, they want to share joy and happiness with us. They walk into Osservi Francesca in Casa Maria Luigia and they experience the who I am, the experience they eat the terroir. If you ask me what we are doing every day, I would say, I compress into edible bites my passion. Food, art, music, poetry. Sitting on centuries of history, because my cooking is deeply Italian.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  But filter, everything is filtered by a contemporary mind. If you're not contemporary and you're nostalgic, everything you do is gonna disappear. Because it's like step by step, from one passing to another, you know, it disappear. Think about technology, okay? I'm thinking now about technology and connecting.

• 9:08Speaker 00

  Artificial intelligence, what, how and how can help us?

• 9:14Speaker 00

  There is an incredible company in Modena called Ital Pizza. They're making pizza, okay? Making pizza, it's a very complex exercise, especially for the east, for the dough, etc. But if you have a machine with no, with a cold, with a cold approach to everything you do, getting the perfect tomato, with the perfect part of extra virgin olive oil, oregano, etc. You have, you know, the perfect mozzarella. The dough with the right temperature, the right things,

• 9:58Speaker 00

  you can make a pizza that is the same in Modena or in Czech Republic. And is cooked at the same perfection temperature to get and replicate the perfect Napolitan pizza, avampata. You know, very high temperature oven. You know, this is the way you can use technology. Then the chef. can be and can focus on different things. So there's no human mistakes in every day because the machine are taking off those mistakes. The product is perfectly set.

• 10:38Speaker 00

  And the chef is thinking about the new recipe, new things to not get lost into correcting all the mistakes of the human being. This is what I.

• 10:55Reid Hoffman?

  And one of the things that then allows the chef to do is the oops, I dropped the lemon tart.

• 11:02Speaker 00

  Pi, could you explain?

• 11:04Speaker 04

  Ah, oops, I dropped the lemon tart. A dish that's not just delicious, but has a fascinating story behind it. It all started when the pastry chef, Kondo Takahiko, was plating a perfectly crafted lemon tart at Massimo Baturo's world-renowned restaurant, Osteria Franciscana. But then disaster struck. He accidentally dropped the tart. Instead of getting angry, Baturo saw beauty in the chaos and told Takahiko to carefully collect the fallen pieces. With some added flourishes, a new dish was born, one that celebrated imperfection and the unexpected. And thus, oops, I dropped the lemon tart was created, becoming a signature dish at Osteria Franciscana

• 11:48Speaker 04

  and a testament to turning a culinary disaster into a delicious work of art.

• 11:52Speaker 00

  Because AI is probably not gonna do that. That's exactly, that's exactly what the chef has to do. You know, like recreate, you know, and correct or correct or like right that kind of mistakes. Make the mistakes is an imperfect.

• 12:14Speaker 00

  Way and approach, especially in a three Michelin star restaurant. You know, no, our, it's the best restaurant in the world. Yeah, of course, I'm breaking a tartare. But it's, it's a, you know, intellectual exercise. It's something that in your everyday life, full of poetry and an obligation. If the poetry disappear because the obligation are completely cancel the poetry. You're gonna get lost into the everyday life and you'll never ever could imagine

• 12:55Speaker 00

  to recreate, to create a broken lemon tart and serve a broken lemon tart in a three Michelin star. Because you think in a different direction. But if everyone look at left and the imperfection, I look right. And I get the imperfection as an opportunity to create something new.

• 13:15Aria Finger?

  I mean, the thing that I love is when I think of like fine dining, I think of like up, stay in your own lot. Like no joy, no smiling, do your own thing. And when you talk about emotions, I mean, you know, you said the crunchy part of the lasagna. Oops, I dropped the lemon tart, like there's so much joy and so much innovation. And last night we were lucky enough to be at your Raffatorio here in San Francisco. And when you think of a soup kitchen, you don't usually think of joy. You don't think of innovation, but we, we were at a fancy restaurant. It was so beautiful, people can come in. So how do you think of the emotion of joy and innovation? Because you're, you're changing things on its head. This is not how three Michelin stars used to go in the past.

• 13:59Aria Finger?

  And I love that new way of thinking.

• 14:03Speaker 00

  This is a perfect observation. We work about this and we were reflecting about this since 10 years. And what we have understood.

• 14:17Speaker 00

  And I was saying yesterday, everybody talks about the chef, but service is fifty percent of the result of the evening. Did you notice how great the service were? Always perfectly in time, very respectful, always smiling. This is the way. In Osteria Francescana, as in all our restaurants, service is part of the whole project, the development project. And because service is communication. They have to know everything that is happening in the kitchen. And that's why I want them in a creative process, involved in a creative process. Because they have to learn, using the mental palette,

• 15:02Speaker 00

  how to mix things, getting the perfect mixture or the perfect smile, understand the psychology of this customer or the other customer, what they need, you know, and what they don't. But the most important thing is my food is getting, is the three Michelin star and goes into, into your, under your skin, you know. And because a good, a good meal is just a good meal. Next good meal, you're gonna forget about my good meal. But if I can transfer emotion in my food, it's gonna stay with you forever. That's, that's the difference. That's the difference.

• 15:47Speaker 00

  And a team is a team. I keep saying to everyone, and I wrote a very nice message to all the guests that come to Osteria, or to Cavallino or Gatto Verde. By myself, I'm Massimo Bottura. With my team, we are Osteria Francescana. It's a teamwork. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the essence of restaurant. Restaurant from the word refissare, to restore. Restore the soul of the guests they travel to come in your place. This is the essence of the restaurant.

• 16:25Reid Hoffman?

  So thinking about restoring souls, one of the things that I loved about the lunch we had, you know, Casa Luigi, was the blend from poetry to artwork to music into the food. So talk a little bit about how those kind of combinations, those inspirations, those ways of creating and thinking.

• 16:52Speaker 00

  It's when I say that I compress my passion into edible bites, passion or passion. And, you know, I grew up in a family where my mom, she was listening to opera and she was teaching us how to listen to the adagio. You know, the adagio is the most important one because from the adagio you understand everything, you know? But if you can't listen to the adagio, you know, very mild touch, you cannot listen to the whole opera. My brother, they were crazy about this or that and the older one was like Beatles,

• 17:35Speaker 00

  the other was Rolling Stones and they were fighting, you know? The third one was into blues and country. I don't know why, don't ask me why, but, you know? And from blues to jazz, the step is very short. So to me, I'm like really into that kind of music. And jazz, it's all about, you know, emotion. Through passion, you transfer emotions. And at the end is all that. And Casa Maria Luigi is the sum of everything. What me and Laura, we decide to do is like sharing. Sharing.

• 18:15Speaker 00

  Uh, in a place called Casa, not pretentious, very humble, Casa, home. We want to treat everyone like home. Every single guest, they feel they can walk in, go in the music room, pick one of the eight thousand vinyls are there, and listen to these vinyls as in my home. The kitchen is always open, as my mom always had. My mom, uh, she always had a chair for the unexpected guests. Because in a large family like ours, of course, oh, the friend of the friend of the friend of the girlfriend, the new friend is coming.

• 18:59Speaker 00

  You know, um, the, uh, kitchen is there, open, with Parmigiano Reggiano and Lambrusco. First of all, I'm gonna snack, you know, not Parmigiano, not a cheese. You say, I'm gonna snack Modena, and drink a little bit of the unique Lambrusco that they're made for us. So, this is the way. Casa is home, and we want to share this kind of experience. And in the experience, art is a big part. Because, uh, since we met in New York, me and Laura, I was like extremely skeptic about, uh, you know, contemporary art. To me, art was over after Duchamp.

• 19:41Speaker 00

  And, uh, you know, and she said, mm, I'm not sure it's like that. Uh, so just, uh, look at the things deeper. Try to understand the message behind the scene, the message that the, the artist wants to share. And from there, we found a way to create something, to share a passion that keep us together and keep us, help us to evolve. And that's how we, we started looking at art in a totally different way. And, uh, we start, you know, surrounded ourself, our kids with art.

• 20:16Aria Finger?

  We have two incredible books on the table, and I want to talk about both of them. So first, you're holding up Reid's book, Impromptu, that he wrote with GPT-4, but it is a special copy, because at the end, we have some customization just for you. So tell me about when you opened the book, you came to the end, you saw the pictures of, of you created by AI. Would, would love to hear how you felt about it.

• 20:38Speaker 00

  First of all, when we met in Modena. We start talking about the artificial intelligence and how he recreate and how he was writing this book and the dialogue and, you know, a friend of his was coming in and we were like, but did you try this? Did you try that? I have a kitchen and I'm dialoguing with the kitchen. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on? This is, these guys there blew my mind. You know, I always, the only, the only way for me to develop things is through my mental palette, no? But the dialogue with artificial intelligence

• 21:17Speaker 00

  is about putting kiwi close to oysters, you know, and it's not something familiar for me, but it's something interesting to understand, you know? One of the key point for me to evolve and create future, it's about having doubt, not having something, oh, I know everything. No, I don't. I have doubt. So I walk into the kitchen with doubt and I have to give answer to this doubt.

• 21:55Aria Finger?

  Massimo, we actually have one more AI surprise. So you were talking about the future. That's what you're building. You're thinking about the future. So we actually asked Pi, which is a personal intelligence. It's a chatbot created by Reed's company, Inflection. Exactly. And so we asked Pi, we said, what do you think a restaurant could look like 50 years from now? And what is your vision of the future of communal eating? So I'm going to pull up, this is, and so we didn't script this, we didn't say anything. We just asked Pi what this would be.

• 22:29Speaker 04

  In 50 years, restaurants could be quite different from what we're used to now. Imagine fully automated restaurants where robots and AI handle the entire process from order taking to food preparation and delivery. Immersive dining experiences could become the norm with VR and AR technologies transporting diners to exotic locations while they enjoy their meals. Personalized menus might become standard, with AI and data allowing restaurants to tailor dishes to individual preferences, dietary restrictions, and even current moods. 3D-printed meals could become commonplace, creating customized dishes that are visually stunning,

• 23:13Speaker 04

  nutritious, and delicious. Despite all these technological advancements, some aspects of dining out might remain the same, like the importance of human interaction, and of course, delicious food.

• 23:26Speaker 00

  As I said before, in large-scale places, to control the quality, robots can really help. Because they're cold, they know exactly what to do, they not make mistakes, like the human mistakes, okay?

• 23:52Speaker 00

  But a chef can manage the irrational. A robot, not. So, the moment in my restaurant in Japan, imagine 20 robots. It's like a fake image, you know? You know, 20 robots, like 20 Japanese chefs in the kitchen. They're like incredibly perfect on everything. Slice the fish, boneless, cooking, and that. They never make a mistake.

• 24:34Speaker 00

  But who is the chef who is managing that? People thought I was crazy when I pick a Napolitan guy. And I match a Napolitan guy with 20 Japanese. Because the Napolitan guy is incredibly constantly in the cloud with his head, and thinking about crazy things. But he understands when I talk. Exactly, I'm giving you an example. And he can manage the irrational of things. And the Japanese, what are the reaction? Ohhh. You know, it's a great reaction.

• 25:17Speaker 00

  Because they understand they have a chef that can really manage that kind of stuff.

• 25:25Speaker 00

  Antonio is making this classic pasta and tomato. You think pasta and tomato, everybody can make it. No, no, totally wrong. You cannot make that kind of pasta and tomato. So Antonio is looking for the best tomatoes in Japan. There are seven tomatoes. They make the perfect tomato together. You know, one is more ripe, one is like more acidic, one is extremely sweet, one is like bitter. Okay? And he put together the seven tomatoes. And he was serving the pasta and tomato in the middle of the tasting menu.

• 26:05Speaker 00

  Because, you know, a couple of rigatoni is exactly as his mom was doing, but with the best seven tomatoes from Japan.

• 26:17Speaker 00

  I went there. I taste the pasta and tomato. I said, Antonio, this is not pasta and tomato. This is a dessert. Because these tomatoes are so incredible. And this pasta is so incredible. That is not a pasta and tomato. This is a dessert. So if you add a little bit of, you know, uh, uh, vegetal, so like, but not to show anything. So you get into the rigatoni with a kind of extraction of basil. And, you know, you finish everything with a little touch of spiciness,

• 27:02Speaker 00

  but not aggressive like south of Italy, but very round as Japanese style. This is gonna be the perfect dessert. You know, Antonio, that is, the Japanese, they're looking at me like, what the hell is he talking about? Serving pasta and tomato as a dessert? Sure. Antonio is a Napolitan guy and immediately got my idea. And he put immediately pasta and tomato as the finishing taste for the tasting menu. Plate of the year. He got the prize, plate of the year. Pasta and tomato as a dessert. Dessert of the year.

• 27:41Reid Hoffman?

  One of the things that was really amazing about the first meal, the community, the round table that I experienced with you was also... The part of yours, your work, Laura's work, the team's work, is not just about us at the table, but about the next generation, about children. Tell us a little bit about that.

• 28:04Speaker 00

  That's one of my biggest

• 28:09Speaker 00

  challenge and dream. I'm like, I treat everyone

• 28:16Speaker 00

  that works for me and the work at the refettorio as part of the family. That's why we call Francesca family. We share ideas, dream. We share mistakes, trying to learn by our mistakes and communicate them one very important things: culture. Culture is the future. The most important ingredients for a chef of the future, for the waiter of the future, for everyone, every human being, is culture. If you have culture, you can build a better future. And I try to involve as many people as I can to learn, to learn how to shape his own future.

• 29:02Speaker 00

  Antonio Jacovelo in Tokyo or Mattia in Los Angeles, they're not

• 29:11Speaker 00

  someone that are taking care of the Osseri Agucci in Tokyo and Los Angeles, but they are human being. And it's their responsibility to create something very special there. I'm behind there. I'm protecting them. I'm teaching them. I'm the guy, I'm guiding them. But it's their responsibility. We have an exercise that is called "Who are you?" in all our restaurant that we share with all the restaurant in the world.

• 29:44Speaker 00

  That is called "Who Are You?" And you know what we do? All our restaurants are certified zero waste. Why? For one simple reason, because we are entrepreneurs. And with waste, we are losing money. And so what we do? We use all the scraps from our preparation with the most amazing ingredients in the world to give the opportunity to all the chefs, the stagiaires, the apprentice, one day, you know, each one of them, to create something special to share with us. Stuff meal.

• 30:28Speaker 00

  Stuff meal is so important. Because stuff meal creates family. And each one of them, they can prepare something that talks about who they are and where they come from. "I am Jose. I come from Ecuador. I'm practicing in Osteria Franciscana. I'm using that suckling pig to explain to you who was my grandmother." This is the future. This is how to learn not to waste food, but to use everything and to cook with love. Because cooking is really an act of love. And so what we want to do is that.

• 31:11Aria Finger?

  One of the things that I want to make sure that you talk about is Food for Soul. Obviously, you have this enormous passion for food, for creativity, for music, but also for giving back and figuring out how you can do this all differently. So tell us sort of the genesis and what Food for Soul has become.

• 31:30Speaker 00

  Thanks for the question. Because Food for Soul probably is the most important project I ever did in my life, we ever did in my life. So it was 2014, and at the Universal Exposition in Milan, all the delegation of the governments, they were coming to Modena and tried to involve me in many different ways. But they never asked me what I was thinking about "Feed the Planet." Estaba hablando con Carlino Petrini de Slow Food Movement y me estaba diciendo sobre estos increíbles números sorprendentes.

• 32:07Speaker 00

  Teníamos 7.5 millones de personas en la Tierra y estábamos produciendo comida para 12 billones de personas. 860 millones de personas no tenían nada para comer y estábamos desperdiciando el 33% de lo que estábamos produciendo. Más que eso, esto es insano. Pero también, más que eso, usamos agua, electricidad, capital humano para producir la comida y luego una tercera de lo que producimos se desperdicia y lo quema y se convierte en una de las tres causas más locas del cambio climático.

• 32:51Speaker 00

  No, esto no es posible. Así que me dije a mí mismo: "Voy a construir mi propia pabellón", pero no en la exposición universal. Porque en ese momento, ahora, el alcalde de Milán, Sindaco Sala, era el responsable de la exposición universal. Y dijeron: "Ven, ven, ven, te vamos a dar espacio". No, porque si vas a la exposición universal te quedas perdido en este gran supermercado. Así que finalmente encontré un diálogo, un diálogo abierto con el archibispo Scola, que me invita y tuvimos una muy buena charla.

• 33:37Speaker 00

  Y explicé el proyecto. En mi mente, tuve que reconstruir Miracle in Milan de Verissimo Italiano y creé el refertorio, como esta cocina de sopa, bajo la estación de tren. Pero él dijo: "Vuelve en una semana porque quiero agradecerte por tu energía, por tu pasión, pero necesito enfrentarme con Roma". Así que Paul Francis, una semana después, dijo: "No queremos que traigas esta luz al centro de la ciudad, pero encontramos un hermoso espacio, un viejo teatro abandono en el perífrico, en el vecino más ignorado de Milán, Quartiere Greco".

• 34:24Speaker 00

  What I did, what we did, we start involving creator of beauty, artist, designer, architects and chefs.

• 34:39Speaker 00

  To rebuild this old theater, abandoned theater, full of dust and rusty things. And we create an amazing place, full of beauty, to share with all our guests. Who were our guests? The most vulnerable, fragile souls of the society. So, what we start doing, we start involving all the chefs and use what we have, we knew better, the power of hospitality. With the simple word,

• 35:21Speaker 00

  "Buongiorno, benvenuti, welcome, come in, we take care of you." And, and in the, around the table, and share a meal. A beautiful meal, made with love, because cooking is an act of love, from surplus food. It's wrong to say way, food waste. It's surplus food, because we produce food that we don't use it. So, I get that food and I transform into amazing meal for people in need. At this point, we start this, this journey and it was incredible, incredible.

• 36:06Speaker 00

  The reaction of the people, the delegation, everyone was coming. But we thought, you know, after the Universal Exposition, imagine, every day we were unloading the truck and transform 150 kilos of black cod from Japan pavilion, or like 80 incredible pulled brass from the French pavilion. Otherwise would be wasted into amazing meal for kids at lunchtime or people in need at dinnertime. Thanks to the most amazing chef in the world. Unbelievable. So after that was like shocking because we were the inspiration

• 36:51Speaker 00

  for France and Italy to pass the law against food waste. You know, it was an incredible big deal. And and we start with this. But we thought after the universal exposition that, you know, the whole project was like, OK, is for our heritage for the city of Milan. But the mayor of Rio de Janeiro connect with us and a couple of other journalists and David Erz, the founder of Gastromotiva, and he said, "We want the same project in Rio de Janeiro for the Olympics." So our answer was, "Why not?" And let's do it. And we did it.

• 37:33Speaker 00

  And from there till now, now we have 12 plus 1, 13 refletorio because the Lima one is under reconstruction. And we rescue more than 1,000 kilos, no, 10,000 kilos of food surplus transforming to millions of meal involving 110,000 volunteers and chef from all over the world. Our refletorio are everywhere, from Sydney to Geneva, from Naples to San Francisco, New York, Lima, Rio, Merida, Mexico, everywhere. So this is Food for Soul.

• 38:17Speaker 00

  And it's a beautiful project that has as focus, I call it cultural project because our focus is through beauty, using beauty to fight food waste and social isolation.

• 38:35Speaker 00

  And this is a very, very, very important project.

• 38:40Reid Hoffman?

  You and Laura have published a book, Slow Food, Fast Cars.

• 38:45Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 38:46Reid Hoffman?

  So what's the, what's the, what's the hope in terms of the offering for how people to, to, to experience the book and to think about it? Should they, should they be having the crispy end of the lasagna while they're reading it?

• 38:58Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no, no. First of all, the book, I said, Laura, this book doesn't need any picture. Because when you read the story that you wrote, it's just a book of short stories that they crack me up, you know, it's, they're so beautiful. And every emotion, every event, every magic moment or simple moment goes into her mind, filtered by everything she, she thinks and go and, and become a short story. And I love it. And so this is a book about short stories. Then it's a book about Casa Maria Luisa.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  And Casa Maria Luisa is the perfect example of what it is Emilia. Emilia and the countryside of Emilia Romagna. This is a, is a very, is a little story. You know, I was shooting a promo with David Beckham and we were shooting for Maserati. And at one point we had a stop. We were sitting, lying on the bench, close to the, to the Roseto from the, the Eddy Piaf Rose and was July. At one point there was like this oak that was like, you know, in the middle of the

• 40:27Speaker 00

  field and it was hunting, you know? And we were there at one point, David, he looked at me and he said, Massimo. I said, yeah, what? I think this is paradise. Because there was no one whisper.

• 40:45Speaker 00

  Just, you know, a little bird that was coming. And I said, come on, David. You know, it's the countryside, it's modern, you know. I got lost into the everyday, you know, into my place without without losing the poetry of everything. And he said, are you kidding me? Look at the field, all gold. Look at the roses, like red on gold. Look at the oak. And no sound, just us. And we were like, I'm ready. I can think about everything because there's no sound. The sound of silence, you know? I was like, wow, this is David Beckham, that he can live everywhere?

• 41:29Speaker 00

  And he said, I imagine paradise, the countryside of Amelia. So this book is about that. It's about poetry, it's about things, it's about connection.

• 41:49Reid Hoffman?

  Now let's go to rapid fire. Is there a movie, song, or book that fills you with optimism?

• 41:54Speaker 00

  Simon and Garfunkel, Sound of Silence.

• 41:59Aria Finger?

  I love it, I love it. All right, rapid fire number two. Is there a question that you wish people asked you more often?

• 42:07Speaker 00

  The politics. I would love to have more politics. They ask for help for good ideas.

• 42:15Aria Finger?

  Oh, all right. Massimo, can you leave us with a final thought on what you think is possible in the future? If everything breaks humanity's way. So if everything breaks our way, what is possible in the next 15 years? And what's the first step to get there?

• 42:31Speaker 00

  I think about my vision for the future and the people I have close to me and I'm listening. And I'm like,

• 42:42Speaker 00

  I just wanna spend time close with people I love. And I can learn. Think about, you know, companies. They're like, they believe in the future. They believe in a sustainable world. They believe in social gesture. They believe in keeping the flame of creativity always on and not let him go. And this is what I want. This is what I'm trying to do because the time is very limited.

• 43:20Speaker 00

  And I'm gonna try to use that time for my best and communicate to as many people as I can to have, to shape a better future, especially for the kids, for the new generation.

• 43:40Reid Hoffman?

  Possible is produced by Wondra Media Network. It's hosted by Ari Finger and me, Reid Hoffman. Our showrunner is Sean Young. Possible is produced by Katie Sanders, Edie Allard, Sarah Shleid, Adrian Bain, and Paloma Moreno Jimenez. Jenny Kaplan is our executive producer and editor.

• 43:59Aria Finger?

  Special thanks to Soraya Yalamanchili, Sayida Sapieva, Ian Alice, Greg Beato, Parth Patil, and Ben Ralas. And a big thanks to Sean McKenna and Pyramid Studios, Laura Gilmore, and Little Monster Media Company.