Live From The HIBT Summit: Marcia Kilgore

Our fifth episode from the 2019 How I Built This Summit features serial entrepreneur Marcia Kilgore, founder of Bliss, FitFlop, BeautyPie and more. The animating question behind all of Marcia's business ideas is 'So What?'— if she can't answer it, she doesn't pursue it. We'll be releasing more episodes from the HIBT Summit over the next few weeks, so keep checking your podcast feed! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Guy Raz?

  So today, we've got another one of my live onstage conversations from the How I Built This Summit that happened in San Francisco back in October. And many of the people sitting in the audience were and are super focused on a single idea, an idea they're hoping to turn into a successful business. Well, today's guest, Marcia Kilgore, started out that way, too. One idea, one company, called Bliss, a skincare brand she wound up selling for tens of millions of dollars. But as you may remember, when she told her story on the podcast a few years ago, Marcia did not stop there. She went on to launch four more successful brands: Soap & Glory, FitFlop,

• 0:45Guy Raz?

  SoaperDuper, and Beauty Pie. So when she sat down with me onstage at the summit, I was really curious to find out where she gets all of her ideas, not to mention her incredible energy and optimism. One of the things I remember when you were on the podcast, you told me that you love rubbing the sticks together, right? You love making things. Do you know where that comes from?

• 1:12Speaker 01

  Hmm, that's a really good question. Where does rubbing the sticks come together from? Yeah, I think it's probably epigenetic. I'm from a Polish and Irish family, and they were farmers. So I guess I'm somewhat of a farmer. I don't think you can completely lose what is from your history. And I feel very comfortable working hard and struggling. And that's what makes me happy. It makes me feel really fulfilled every day to be solving a problem, to be digging in the earth, whatever that earth is, and trying to figure out how to grow something.

• 1:41Guy Raz?

  I mean, there are so many companies, successful companies, you have founded, sold, some of them you still run. And are you always thinking about the next thing?

• 1:53Speaker 01

  You know, Guy, what's really interesting, and I think what's really important for all of us to do is to keep adding points of light, you know, and a big point of light is your show, right? Every week to just listen again, listen to them over and over again, listen five times. They're points of light, and then read as much as you can. And when you read and you add those points of light, you create a picture for yourself that is kind of like, you know, the lights on your Christmas tree? If you have a Christmas tree, right? And when you get a bunch of them up there, you can suddenly see the shape of the tree, right? You see either a new idea, or you can see the way through a problem, and you have a new path, and it is by adding more points.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  So, you know, normally, they say in sales, if you haven't managed to sell something to somebody, it's because you haven't explained to them why they need that product that you are selling. You haven't done it enough to connect those dots for them. So, I think it's the same thing when you're trying to solve a business challenge, or to come up with a new idea that might pass that so what test. I have something that I call the so what test, which is, you know, you explain your idea in one simple sentence, and then ask yourself, so what? And if you can't answer so what in one simple sentence, then you don't have it yet, and you may need to add some more points of light.

• 3:11Guy Raz?

  I mean, I think it's, anyone who's heard your episode, or who's talked to you a little bit, knows that you're not motivated by money. I mean, you've sold all these companies, you've made a lot of money, you don't need to work, you're motivated by...

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Competitiveness.

• 3:25Guy Raz?

  Yeah, competitiveness, too. And you said this on the show, one thing I remember is you said, "The idea of seeing a product that I had thought about, that wasn't mine, would drive me crazy."

• 3:38Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, if you've thought of something, and then somebody moved on it first...

• 3:41Guy Raz?

  It's happened, it's happened to all of us. We've thought of something, an idea, and then you, you know, you see it like two years later at Target.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's, it's sad to think, oh, I didn't move on that one, it could have been mine.

• 3:51Guy Raz?

  Is that, I mean, does that idea just drive you so crazy that you have to?

• 3:55Speaker 01

  Oh, it's not really that. The good ideas, you know, I'll have like 10 a day, but the good ones are the ones that, you know, the nine of them kind of go... Away and one of them sticks and you think, oh, I really got to do that. And then you kind of start to tell friends and and if you're a real entrepreneurial type, you probably see the vision the most and you don't see the data and the the details until maybe later. So you're up here and these people down here can't see it. And that's because you haven't maybe connected all the dots for them yet. It doesn't mean that the idea is not good. At the same time, if it's a terrible idea, you know, invite that criticism. This is the best thing that you can get.

• 4:31Guy Raz?

  So you do talk about it with people. You don't keep it secret?

• 4:34Speaker 01

  Um, no, I will, you know, it depends where we are in a patenting process.

• 4:37Guy Raz?

  Sure.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  You know, if we want to have to keep something secret because we think there might be a competitor that comes up, you know, really quickly and we haven't built enough of a first mover advantage, then I won't talk about it too much.

• 4:46Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  And and if you have an idea like that, you know to get non-disclosure agreements. Anybody just starting out, right? Get download one from the internet and just give it to people. It'll stop them talking about your idea, at least if you can't afford a lawyer.

• 5:00Guy Raz?

  So one of the really cool things about your story is, I mean, you moved to New York, you were eighteen. You were hoping to go to college, but you didn't have the money to do it. And you were a bodybuilder as a young woman. You were a fitness instructor and that's really how you started out. And then you got into skincare and you opened up your little two hundred square foot booth in Soho in the in the nineties and built this incredible business. You've now had success with cosmetics, with shoes, with soap. I mean, you didn't go to business school. You didn't have the formal fancy degrees that some other people do. Um, which is awesome. I mean, it's so inspiring, right? How have you known that these ideas were going to work?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Oh, actually, what you need to understand is that there are, has anyone done Myers-Briggs?

• 5:53Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Okay, it's good. It's good to know how your brain thinks. Because your brain is one of what sixteen types of brains? So the type of brain that I've got, I'm an INTP. So it's the a blue printer. So I'm a typical kind of visionary thinker. So I can see without necessarily explaining to, you know how some people can do math without doing all the work? In between?

• 6:19Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  That's like me with the idea. And then I have to figure out, I do the work in between, but I can usually tell after a while. And that's just a gift, I guess.

• 6:28Guy Raz?

  Have you ever, I mean, have you ever had an idea that you tried and pursued for a while that you realized didn't, wasn't gonna work?

• 6:36Speaker 01

  Not really.

• 6:37Guy Raz?

  Wow, really? That's amazing.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Not a big one. I mean, you know, at one point, someone wanted us to do a men's line offshoot of Soap and Glory, and that didn't really work, because men didn't buy cosmetics at the time. It wasn't makeup, but they wanted to spend ninety-nine cents on a shower gel, and I couldn't make it that cheap. I didn't want to make it that cheap.

• 6:54Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  I could have, but I just, there was no joy in that for me. So, you know, it was sort of a little offshoot that someone thought this would be a great expansion, and it didn't really go. But otherwise, no, I don't think so. I think I think about them for a long time, and that's something else that I remember learning from a woman. I think her name was Christina Brown. She used to run Saks. And she said, you know, if you just sit for an hour every day, don't look at your email and put the problem that you're trying to solve down in front of you, and actually just think about that problem and map it out. Maybe put it on a wall and map out the pros and the cons, and how you might be able to get here, and what'll happen if you do this. You know, like the choice diagram?

• 7:34Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  You probably solve the problem, or see if there are too many insurmountable obstacles, or see if there are things that you haven't thought about. But we don't do that, right? Because I don't know, I mean, there will be people in here who are real realists. But then, also, if you're somebody who's quite optimistic, which is a requirement to be an entrepreneur, you have to be kind of optimistic to a fault. You won't want to look at the hurdles that may be in the way. So, actually, sitting down and mapping things out will tell you, you know, can you get over some of these things? And it'll give you a little bit more of a realistic perspective on what you're gonna be up against, because any time that you start a new business, it is like pushing a boulder up the hill. Anyone feel that?

• 8:19Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, right? And you think, okay, I'm gonna push this boulder up the hill, and eventually, the boulder will roll by itself. But the boulder sometimes feels like it's rolling by itself for about how long? Like, nine hours?

• 8:31Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 8:32Speaker 01

  Right, and then you have to start pushing the boulder again.

• 8:35Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  So you have to make sure, and this is, if I started with a business plan because my goal would be to make money, there just wouldn't be enough passion for me to push the boulder.

• 8:43Guy Raz?

  Yeah, I'm curious about this idea of scale. You know, obviously, the companies that we've had on the show are big companies. They've scaled.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:51Guy Raz?

  But I've had conversations and have had messages from people saying, "Look, you know, um, scale is great, but, but we kind of, I don't know, we celebrate it without, I'm talking about the virtues of just creating a sustainable company that can sustain a family or, or 10 families or 50 families."

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:10Guy Raz?

  Right?

• 9:11Speaker 01

  I mean, it's all relative.

• 9:12Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  What scale is to you. I think it's the same thing. It's kind of when you learn to ski, right? First, you're on the bunny slope, and then it's really boring to be on the bunny slope. So you have to go to the green.

• 9:23Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  And then you have to go to the blue.

• 9:26Guy Raz?

  Right.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  And then you've got to go to the red, and then you have to go to the black.

• 9:29Guy Raz?

  But do you, I mean, do you, do you think about, like, when you, you know, now with Beauty Pie, or you're, you're, you know, the next company, there are the next seven companies you start. How important is it to you strategically to make it really big?

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Hmm, I don't think about it at the beginning. I will think about an idea as whether it's interesting enough for me, sort of psychologically, I suppose, is it enough of a challenge to keep me interested in it? Because if it's not, I will kind of get bored and then I won't build it.

• 10:00Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  But that's me, I think. Any, any size of business, listen, when it comes down to it, what's the most important thing? Happiness, right? So if you're happy with a small business where you're not stressed all day, that's perfectly great. And then if you're not happy, unless your business is big and growing and you're taking over the world, that's great for you too. There's no judgment. You just want to be happy, whatever it is you're doing. And that'll change if you're doing, you know, your first business, what might make you happy. It probably gets different when you're doing your second or your third or your 10th.

• 10:33Guy Raz?

  What you're saying is, it's not about the money, it's not about the notoriety, it's about just tackling something that is personally interesting and that you can make sustainable.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  That you can make sustainable, I think that makes a difference. Um, also, I'm older now, right? So the older you get, the more you realize that you want to do something that really has purpose and that changes life for people for the better. Um, I've always loved making people happy. So most of my brands are kind of filled with humor in some way because it's offering people a treat or a bit of lightness or a break when they need it. And at the same time, now there are so many other factors that we have to look into like, you know, is it sustainable for the earth? Are the things that you're packaging with recyclable? Is their plastic that's going to end up in the ocean? How can you ship this lighter? People want to use glass instead of plastic, but glass is heavier.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  So how do you, you know, there are a lot of moving parts now. And actually, it's a really interesting time to be in our business because there's such a tremendous shift. Everything is moving so fast that you have to be able to be really open, not defensive. Customers will attack you all the time, especially with social media, right? So you will get onslaughts and onslaughts of people criticizing you. And you have to actually take it and think, you know what? Listen to them because they're telling you what to do. They're telling you what they want. And that's one of, you know, the best pieces of advice that I ever had.

• 12:00Guy Raz?

  Wow.

• 12:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:01Guy Raz?

  If you were sitting in this audience, you know, in the early nineties, you, you got to New York, it was a different New York. You were on your own. I mean, if you, when you were just starting out, what do you, what do you wish you would have known then that you, you know now?

• 12:14Speaker 01

  Okay. Lots of things.

• 12:16Guy Raz?

  All right. Let's go.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay. So number one, surround yourself with trust and positive energy, openness, and don't be defensive. And write everything down.

• 12:27Guy Raz?

  Hmm.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  Because when you write things down and then you have actionables against them, that moves you to a next step and it's sort of a measurable next step. So that's something everyone should work on. Um, it's a marathon, not a sprint, right? Sometimes you start a business and you think, okay, in two years, we're going to sell this for fifty million dollars and blah, blah. You know, four and a half years later, you're still, you're still jogging. So remember, it's always a marathon and you will get there, but. You know, it can take 10 years or 17 years. I think Starbucks was going for 17 years before anybody really heard of it. So don't think you're going to turn something around unless you're really lucky. Every idea you have has to pass the so what test. So have someone ask you so what?

• 13:11Speaker 01

  And then explain so what in one sentence. If you can't and it's not cool, like what's cool about that? What's new about that? Go back and work on your idea before you spend a lot of time and effort on that. Never sell something that you wouldn't buy. That's an easy one, right? But related to that is the best decision is always a decision that increases your customers' trust. Has anybody been in a position where you have to make a decision? You're thinking, I don't know if this is the best, but let's launch it anyway? You will come to these situations where the product's not really ready or there's like a mild design flaw and you think, oh, well, you know, like 23% of the people might notice this, but and you're not really happy with it. It feels like an albatross around your neck.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  Always think long term because cleaning up a mess is way more expensive than waiting for a little while and it's exhausting.

• 14:02Guy Raz?

  Yep.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Okay. What else? Got that. You get what you give. If somebody asks you for a favor, take the time and do it. Right? If you can help someone, do it because one day you don't know where they are. They may have really had a tremendous amount of success and they can come and pull you up and they will remember. So take that time, no matter how busy or stressed or whatever you are. And do not get up in the morning to be average.

• 14:29Guy Raz?

  Love it.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 14:31Guy Raz?

  I love it. Marcia Kilgore, founder of Too Many Companies To Name. Amazing. Thank you. That's Marcia Kilgore. She's the founder of five companies, including Bliss and Beauty Pie. She joined me live on stage at the How I Built This Summit, which happened in October at Yerba Buena Center for the Arts in San Francisco. We're going to have more of my conversations from the summit over the next few weeks. So keep checking for updates. And thanks to J.C. Howard, who produced this episode, and Rantin Arablui, who wrote the music. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to How I Built This.