SC EP:1253 The Quantum Bridge Project

Rick writes "I was on your show about two years ago regarding my investigations into the potential paranormal aspects of the Bigfoot phenomenon. I would like to update you on my efforts (Quantum Bridge Project) and the progress we've made to date. As you know, I used to be the State Director for the Virginia Chapter of the Mutual UFO Network and investigated numerous UFO sighting reports to include purported "abduction" cases. I transitioned to the paranormal realm because of the apparent similarities in certain cases. I've been with the Center for Paranormal Research and Investigations (CPRI) for the past twenty-four years and, within the past eight years, started conducting "cryptid" research for the same aforementioned reasons. I chose CPRI because of their philosophy and the way they approached the paranormal using the scientific method. The organization has MDs, PhDs in sociology, educators, nurses, chemists, current and former law enforcement officers, etc. CPRI is a Virginia 501(c) nonprofit, educational organization with a Board of Directors. I approached their Board with a written research proposal requesting that we investigate the "cryptid" phenomena in the same fashion they approach the paranormal; using certain specialized instrumentation and equipment like thermal imaging/ recording devises, remote data loggers designed to measure various EM/ radiological fields, and certain environmental conditions. My proposal involved locating a potentially credible cryptid investigator and working with them in their respected field research areas in order to capture supporting data during a sighting. This would not only validate that something is actually occurring, but to potentially explain certain aspects of the phenomenon. I've attached this particular proposal for your reference. One of my investigators located Harley Owens; a fairly new cryptid investigator in the East Tennessee area. Some of his sightings have been validated by other independent investigators, so I decided to work with him. His research area is near Cosby, TN, which is one of the areas the late Scott Carpenter used to investigate. Over the past two years, Ive independently investigated this area with Harley to further gauge his credibility before devoting CPRI resources to this geographical area. During that time, I've seen strange tree structures, heard screams, roars, and strange "barn owl" sounds, I have also seen those infamous" lights" that are seemingly associated with the Bigfoot phenomenon. On one occasion, I saw one of these "lights" at night on my thermal imager. It was moving intelligently through the forest. Interestingly enough, when I tried to see the light without the thermal, it wasn't visible. When I looked through the thermal, it would reappear, indicating it had some type of invisible heat source. Harley was next to me and wanted to see the light through the thermal. When he looked through it, he saw the light and, as it approached a dirt road, he said the light "transformed" into an upright being exhibiting a heat signature. It walked across the road and up an incline towards an adjacent knoll. I didn't see this; however, about one minute later, I heard a loud scream and an "owl' like vocal come from this same knoll. This scream was extremely loud and lasted about two to three seconds. It also sounded like some type of primate. It was immediately followed by an "owl" vocal, which didn't seem right. On another investigation in July of 2024, Harley and I were in his research area one night when we heard a loud, very intimidating roar (not scream) coming from another Ridgeline adjacent to a cemetery, which is the apparent focal point of the activity. This roar was so intimidating and loud, we were concerned for our safety. You could actually feel "rage" coming from whatever made it. I've never heard anything quite like it before, so we decided to pack everything up in order to make a quick exit if the situation called for it. We didn't stay too much longer before we left the area. As you probably know, these so called "orb" sightings are very common in both Bigfoot and paranormal cases, which leads me to some information you and your listeners may find very interesting. Back in 2003, CPRI investigated a case near Bedford, VA. This case involved a lady who lived on a farm in a double wide home. The lady reported seeing shadows, hearing voices and reported poltergeist type activity throughout the house. During the course of our investigation, she related an incident that occurred in the early 80s. She was getting ready for bed, had just turned off the bedroom lights when she saw three "orbs" hovering in a level, straight line at the foot of her bed. They appeared to be the size of a softball and each exhibited a different color; one was orange, one was light blue and the last was reddish They emitted light and then moved in unison (line formation) down her hallway and made a 90 degree left turn into her dinning room. She immediately went to the dinning room to see where they went and couldn't locate them. It was as if they just disappeared. The following morning, she went back into the dinning room and noticed three circular discolored/ burnt marks on her window screen. She believed these orbs went through the screen because they weren't there before, the window was left open and each mark was about the same size of these orbs. We asked her about the screen and, fortunately, she had rolled it up and kept it in her barn and forgot about it. We went to the barn and she pulled it out. The screen still had these three strange marks on it, so we asked if we could have it analyzed. She agreed, so we gave it to one of our members who happened to be a Radiochemist and worked for a federal lab in eastern Virginia. He's no longer with CPRI, so I'm not at liberty to divulge his name or where he worked without permission. He took the screen to his lab for analysis. A few weeks later, he sent us a report with his findings, which were intriguing. I've attached a document containing excerpts of his report to keep him and his employer's information confidential. According to the report, the discolored sections of the screen were highly irradiated. The areas were so irradiated we decided to ask the lady some health questions. Around the same time as the orb incident, she did experience bad flu symptoms, nausea, fever and general weakness, which lasted about a week or two. She thought it was just the flu, but did reveal additional information that brings doubt to that conclusion. A few years later, the had to have hip replacement surgery. After the surgery, the doctor asked if she had ever had radiation therapy. When she said no, the doctor said the bone structure of her hip was porous. It appeared to have been subjected to a type of radiation. Apparently she may have been exposed to a great deal of radiation that night. This is not to say that all orb phenomena contains radioactive properties, but it appears these lights did. In March of 2025, I assembled a team from CPRI and we (along with Harley) conducted a preliminary investigation of the Cosby site. The team consisted of Harley, myself, an archeologist, University Professor and another retired law enforcement officer. We did take some instrumentation with us. During the course of three days, we found several unusual tree structures, interviewed a resident in the area and conducted night surveillance. The primary location was the site of an old cemetery, which seems to be the focal point of the activity. We were able to witness unusual light activity in the cemetery. This took the form of small red points of moving light. Another larger red light was also seen depending in a straight line towards the same Ridgeline that the "roar" was heard a year earlier. Our archeologist witnessed a large, indistinct dark mass cross in front of him through the cemetery. He was wearing an Apple Smart Watch with embedded bio sensor at the time. He was able to pull the heart rate data from the watch and, at the exact time he witnessed this event. His heart rate jumped from 66 BPM to 124 BPM. On one occasion, our professor also witnessed a small green light hovering about thirty feet above the cemetery. These lights couldn't readily be explained. They didn't match the will-o-the-wisp (swamp methane gas ignition) phenomena because the weather was cool, it hadn't rained, low humidity and most of the colors seen were red instead of the signature faint blue-violet glow."

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Speaker 00

  It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind and it either heard me or smelt me and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up and that, that shocked me. They don't make people that, that big.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything move like that in my life.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  They were screaming at each other in gibberish.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  It sounded like a language and they were chuntering away, back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet that what I saw bears.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  911, what are you reporting? Jesus Christ, you better... Sir? See ya! Hello? Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-oh.

• 1:31Speaker 03

  Hi, I'm Becky. And I'm Mercedes. We're looking for a guy with big feet, six-eight, brown eyes, always hides. We found him on our favorite podcast. Woo! Sasquatch Chronicles!

• 2:08Wes Germer?

  Welcome to the show. Tonight, we'll be speaking with Rick Artistrain and Dr. Jack Tremmel. I interviewed Rick probably two or three years ago, and I remember him making the comment to me, "Why don't UFO paranormal and cryptid researchers get together and compare notes? Maybe there's something there, maybe there's not." And I, you know, I thought it was a fantastic idea. Rick was the state director for MUFON there in Virginia, and he investigated UFO sightings and reported abduction cases there in Virginia. And he created this group, Quantum Bigfoot Project,

• 2:50Wes Germer?

  and it was to include cryptid paranormal and UFO researchers. And also, many scientists were welcome into the group. And the goal was to kind of search for answers and hopefully provide people with answers. So we'll be going into that tonight, along with our experiences. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is [email protected]. And if you get a chance, check out sasquatchchronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Rick to the show. Rick, thanks for coming back.

• 3:34Speaker 05

  Thanks for having me back. I appreciate it.

• 3:37Wes Germer?

  Yeah, and I also want to welcome Dr. Jack Tremmel to the show. Jack, thank you so much for being here.

• 3:45Speaker 06

  I am delighted. Thank you.

• 3:47Wes Germer?

  It's my pleasure having both of you on. And I wanted to talk a little bit about the Quantum Bridge Project. How did it start? If you would, walk me into kind of the goals of it and where you're at today.

• 4:02Speaker 05

  Okay, um, for your listeners that haven't heard me before on your last show, I'm retired law enforcement. I've been involved with MUFON. I was a state director for about five years here in Virginia. Each MUFON chapter, you know, each state has a MUFON chapter, which is the Mutual UFO Network. And basically, they investigate UFO sightings and file reports with the parent organization. And in an objective, scientific type manner. I did that for five years. I was state director for Virginia. And then I went into the paranormal realm because in the UFO field, I found there's certain crossover elements of paranormal. I mean, sometimes,

• 4:46Speaker 05

  especially with abduction cases, they experience paranormal type of activity in their homes and around their persons, kind of like poltergeist type activity, haunting, classic haunting type of activity. Intrigued me. So I went and transitioned to the paranormal and joined the Center for Paranormal Research and Investigations back in 2002. I've been with them ever since. And the CPRI, short for Center for Paranormal Research and Investigation, they're a very credible organization, as far as I'm concerned, more credible than most paranormal groups, because they adopt the scientific method philosophy. And they approach it that way. And they're

• 5:27Speaker 05

  very objective, very critical. And they're basically data oriented and data based organizations. They don't necessarily rely on experience. They're more interested in the data associated with the experience itself. So I've found them to be very credible. So I started working with them. And throughout the course of that, my investigations in the paranormal, I started coming across, you know, certain cases in the literature where people involved in paranormal incidents start seeing these cryptic creatures like Dogman. Bigfoot, um, crawlers, that type of thing. And then my, uh, my focus seemed to shift a little bit. I stuck with the paranormal, but I started to looking a little, little bit more into the,

• 6:11Speaker 05

  uh, this crypto field because again, like I said before, the crossover elements were there. I talked with you and I talked with you a little bit about it and some of my experiences that I had. And, um, after we talked, I got, you know, more in depth in it and I started to think, you know, brainstorm about a project that a paranormal group, a reputable paranormal group, which I believe CPR is, CPRI is, if they can get involved in the cryptid area, bring their, their, their philosophy, their equipment and all this into the, into the fold, then maybe we would come up with some of the answers, you know, or at least develop new questions that need to be addressed. And we needed some data associated with these sightings of these creatures to see if, you

• 6:54Speaker 05

  know, there's an environmental change with them. Um, we have certain, you know, we have data loggers and equipment that, uh, might be able to measure that. And then we got into the orb phenomenon. A lot of orb phenomena is witnessed around the Bigfoot and the Dogman areas. And that, that increased my interest because CPR I had a, uh, case, we investigated back in 2003 involving orbs that apparently went through a screen. We got a hold of the screen and had it now analyzed with, by a radio chemist. And the results of that were extraordinary. But, um, in short, in short, that's what, that's where we're at right now. And I've developed, uh, the quantum bridge where CPRI

• 7:35Speaker 05

  works with a, uh, cryptid researcher in, in his area of responsibility and his research area to try to find some data associated with these things. That's everything in a nutshell.

• 7:47Wes Germer?

  Man, do I have a case for you guys. I talked about it on the last member show, so I won't, I won't really go too much into it. But this gentleman, he contacted me because of the, these cryptids on his property. So as we're talking, he, how it all kind of started was he saw this gray alien kind of down in the bushes near his home and he didn't know what it was and he took a picture of it. In fact, he took several pictures of it and it does look like a freaking gray alien. I'm waiting to get all of his videos and pictures before I post a show, but he told me, he goes, you know, and he didn't know what Dogman was. He goes, you know,

• 8:31Wes Germer?

  it sounds crazy, but I saw a freaking werewolf on my property. Ever since he saw that werewolf on his property or Dogman, whatever title you want to give it, the activity actually started in the home and a lot of this weird paranormal poltergeist type activity is going on in the home. He describes, um, seeing this weird black fog come out of his mother's bedroom. He's kind of an older gentleman and he's taking care of his mom in her old age and he describes this weird black fog that comes out of her room and he claims to have it on video, but basically what he told me goes, imagine like a black electrical

• 9:10Wes Germer?

  fog that looks like it's alive. It'll crawl down the wall. It'll crawl up the ceiling. And he goes, I don't know if this is demonic. I don't know if this is aliens. I don't know what's going on. I just want it to stop. But then there's way more to it than what I'm saying, but that's kind of the gist of it. And you do see with UFO encounters, alien encounters, oftentimes people will report paranormal stuff going on in their home after an event like that. What about yourself, Jack? How did you get involved in this and what was kind of your interest?

• 9:48Speaker 06

  So for those who are just meeting me, I'm a sociologist. I work at Mount St. Mary's University in Maryland and

• 9:57Speaker 06

  I'm really interested in the supernatural and in the unexplained. And so I teach a lot of courses related to that and I've done a lot of research related to that. So I'm kind of like what you would call a sociologist of the unexplained. And for me, what Rick is talking about with the quantum bridge dovetails very nicely with some theories I'm evolving as a result of my research about people experiencing these things. And by the way, I just saw before we got on air that there's a report that says 3.5 million Americans claim that they have had an encounter or have been abducted by aliens. And I still can't believe that number. I'm gonna check it out.

• 10:42Speaker 06

  But that's mind blowing that one out of every 100 Americans has experienced that or claimed to have experienced that. And so I look at it through the lens of three things. The physical, the psychological, and the phenomenal. And things like spiritual belief and religion fall into that phenomenal area. And what people believe is tantamount to me because as a sociologist, if people believe something, then sociologically speaking, it's true. Because they're gonna arrange their life as if it were true. And they're gonna live their life as if it were true. And so it becomes true in that sense.

• 11:23Speaker 06

  And so as I've developed my studies of the supernatural, including cryptids and aliens and all kinds of things, in addition to just the classic, what people would call paranormal, I've really become to appreciate that the science is only a teeny part of the equation. And if people believe they've experienced something, whether they did or not in a scientific way is less important to me than it used to be. And it's more important to me that they're living their lives as if it was something that happened.

• 11:57Wes Germer?

  Jack, did you ever have an experience that kind of led you down this path?

• 12:03Speaker 06

  It's funny, I tell my students a story about when I was a kid in New York City, living in an old crumbling brownstone. My parents were not very well off at all. We were very poor and so we were living in this creepy old brownstone on the seventh floor. And I would always see a woman come into my room late at night in white. Of course, there you go, stereotype, the classic woman in white. And I never was scared. She looked like she was taking care of me, almost like an angelic kind of feeling to it. And when I told my mother about this, I got a spanking and was told that was her coming in to check on me and never talk about it again.

• 12:44Speaker 06

  And so, early in my life, I was shamed into not asking questions about things like that. So when I grew up and became a sociologist, I decided, nobody's gonna tell me I can't study this anymore and be interested in it. And so, other things have happened to me in my life, but that's sort of like the, what would you call it? The founding story of how I got interested as a very young child and then pursued it later as an adult.

• 13:09Wes Germer?

  Yeah, and I didn't realize the woman in white is more common than I originally thought. The very first time I heard about it was actually from a Bigfoot researcher. And he was a hardcore, this is an ape, flesh and blood, there's nothing odd about this. And I remember around a campfire one night, he was telling me about running into this woman in white. And it was weird. He was kind of like describing a spirit. And if you look into that Ape Canyon attack that actually happened in Washington back in the 20s, Fred Beck talks about the woman in white. In fact, they found the mine because of the woman in white. He describes a spirit. Then shortly after that, everyone knows the rest of the story,

• 13:54Wes Germer?

  that, you know, they were attacked by these quote-unquote apes in Ape Canyon. But that whole encounter of Fred Beck and those miners is a lot more strange than most people think. Have you ever looked into that?

• 14:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, I've read things about the encounter itself and some side notes about it that weren't readily available to the public. There were a lot of paranormal type events that occurred around that incident. The woman in white, they kept seeing, you know, light phenomena, that type of thing before and even I don't know if it happened after the incident because they fled, but before the incident, that was, that was their claim and it wasn't readily, that information wasn't really readily put out there because it didn't meet the narrative, I guess. But yeah, there's a lot more that went on with that whole event than most people realize.

• 14:49Speaker 06

  And Wes, if I can add something, the woman in white motif is almost a misnomer in my opinion because what people may be seeing is some kind of entity or aura that has no color at all. And it may be that it is manifesting through a part of the visual spectrum in the ultraviolet perhaps, or where there wouldn't be any color. You're not going to see a woman in red. You're not going to see a woman in blue. And that that aura comes closest to people thinking, well, it's glowing in the dark or I see it, you know, I see it there. I just, it doesn't have any color. And so I think maybe

• 15:33Speaker 06

  it's a misnomer to call it the woman in white because it may be that people are seeing something that's in a different part of the visual spectrum.

• 15:42Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I think in most cases I would agree with you on that, Jack. Like I was telling you, that Bigfoot researcher, we were sitting around a campfire and he had kind of gotten lost in the woods. And he describes coming across this woman in white. And based on his description, I would agree with you. It just seemed like something bright. I don't know that I would call it white heated. But I've heard other accounts where I think your theory applies. I've also heard accounts where that theory doesn't apply. I remember I had these two brothers on and they talked about this homeless woman in white. They would see all the time and she would cross over their property and never speak to them. They would try and talk to her, but she would never speak to them. But they would always bring her up.

• 16:28Wes Germer?

  And they would see her during the daytime and it never clicked with them that she was never dirty. You know, they're wearing snake boots and they have mud up to their knees. But I never clicked with them. Why she was never dirty? The reason why they thought she was homeless is because none of her clothes fitter. And that's a whole nother story, but I understand where you're coming from, Jack. Tell me about different events that have happened with this group. I know there's one in particular with the lights.

• 17:01Speaker 05

  Sure, um, uh, pre, uh, quantum bridge, sure. You know, before moving into the present or?

• 17:11Wes Germer?

  I know from your email, you brought up Harley. I think he's a Bigfoot researcher down south. I want to say Tennessee.

• 17:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, Harley. Yeah, he's the, uh, he's an investigator in eastern Tennessee that I'm working with. He Harley is a good guy. He's very enthusiastic. He's very, he's very much a go getter. But he's, you know, in the beginning was very inexperienced with regard to this type of thing. I think you had him on your show at one point, um, where he related or related an experience he had in Virginia. I had a work site where he actually saw these things and actually recorded vocals. Well, ever since that point, he became very, very interested in this. And, uh, started doing some research in, um, in eastern Tennessee. He, uh, he started seeing things and experiencing things that, uh, you know, you know, I had initially, I had some doubts about.

• 18:04Speaker 05

  Until he started inviting other independent researchers on these treks with him and they were experiencing these things. And seeing the, you know, Bigfoot type creatures and so forth. And, uh, my interest peaked at that point and I started to work with him. I said, well, it's a good possibility. We might be able to get some, something out of this particular area. Um, so we started working with him. Uh, I've been out there to the Cosby area, Cosby, East Tennessee. Maybe five or six times and experienced something on three, at least three different occasions there. I have never seen anything as far as, uh, Bigfoot, uh, dog man, any type of cryptid or anything like that.

• 18:44Speaker 05

  But I have heard, um, screams and roars that I couldn't really explain. Especially the roar that I heard back in July of 24. But uh, and I've also seen unusual light phenomenon out there. Um, I had a thermal imager. And I was scanning the wood line around this particular cemetery, which seems to be the focal point of this activity. We go and set up at the cemetery and we just sit there listening and um, record and you know, observe. And I saw this light, the pinpoint of light, white light, well, it appeared white in the thermal because I had it on a white heat setting. And it was uh, it was going through the wood line, appeared to be intelligent, intelligently operated.

• 19:29Speaker 05

  And I would take the thermal down and I wouldn't see it. I put the thermal back up to my eye and it would appear. So apparently it was whatever it was, was invisible to the eye, but visible to the, in the heat spectrum. So, you know, I thought this was interesting and I was following it and Harley was standing next to me and I gave the thermal to Harley. Well, he asked for it and he said, let me take a look. I gave it to him. He looked at it and he was approaching this dirt road which led from the uh, road to the cemetery itself. And he says that uh, whatever it was, this light transitioned into a, a um, some type of creature, upright creature,

• 20:12Speaker 05

  exhibiting heat. And it took two or three steps across the road and went up an incline toward a, a knoll on the other side. I, you know, shocked then when he said that. I said, well, let me see. And by the time I got the thermal, I didn't see anything. But about a minute later, up on the knoll, I actually heard a scream, rather loud scream, which lasted maybe two to three seconds. I couldn't identify the scream. And it uh, but you know, later it sounded primate, sounded like a primate. If you, if you can recall what a chimpanzee sounds like when it screams, that's what this particular scream sounded like. And I didn't know of any other wildlife in the area that could produce that type of sound. I may be wrong.

• 20:57Speaker 05

  But right after this scream, almost immediately after the scream, I heard what sounded like a uh, barn owl, hoot three times. Right at the very end, I thought that was interesting. Uh, and then I started reading and watching your show and. Looking at past cases and it seems like this owl sound is very common with Bigfoot phenomenon. And that just sparked my interest and I continued going out there with him. We've said, we found unusual tree structures. Uh, we also, I think we found a, uh, what looks like a, you know, very a footprint, but wasn't very discernible because it was on an incline. It was slid down the, the, whatever step

• 21:39Speaker 05

  on this particular spot slid down and kind of disoriented or, you know, the print itself. And I did cast it, but it's, you know, somewhat, it can't very, you can't see it very clearly, even in the cast. We've, uh, you know, I've heard a roar. Like I said, last July, I was 24. We were outside at the cemetery at night. I was, we were sitting there doing the observation surveillance. And on adjacent ridge, probably straight line distance, maybe a mile and a half, two miles. Uh, I heard this, what sounded like a roar, sounded like a T-Rex. Like, sounded like a T-Rex from, um, uh, Jurassic Park.

• 22:21Speaker 05

  And I just, it gave me show bumps. The hair stood up on the back of my neck and we just looked at each other. And I said, you know, that sounded threatening and the roar itself sounded like it had rage to it. And I told him, I said, well, let's, cause we had, I had my vehicle there. I had the tailgate up and I had a tarp over the back of the tailgate. Set up and everything in case it rained. And I said, let's take everything down and put everything in. And if we have to make a quick exit, we can just hop in the vehicle and leave. Because we were pointed toward the, you know, road, the road that leads to the road, you know, adjacent road. So we'll make a quick exit. It, it bothered me. It really did. I didn't, I, I, unless there was somebody on that hill

• 23:07Speaker 05

  with a loudspeaker, playing the T-Rex sound. You know, from the Jurassic Park movie. I, I can't, um, I can't see someone doing that. So that was perplexing to me and some, somewhat, someone bothered me a little bit. But, uh, you know, we, we continued investigating and. He eventually he reported to me that he actually saw a dogman type creature when he was hiking up on the hilltop near that ridge. And he said the dogman creature came out, looked at him from behind a tree. And he took off running and he said whatever it was paced him in the woods to his right and he couldn't see it anymore, but he could hear actually hear the footfalls. And it paced him all the way out, ran with him all the way out to uh the uh trailhead.

• 23:53Speaker 05

  But it stopped at a creek. I guess it jumped the creek or whatever, but um he looked at the dogman creature and he was somewhat upset about that and uh. You know, he's he's he had a lot of experiences at home too, some paranormal stuff, uh something was banging on the side of his house or his shed. Um, and he lives in somewhat of a residential area, so I can't see these things coming down and doing that without being readily seen. He had a lot of experiences, some paranormal, and um that's that's what, you know, keyed me into uh work with him a bit more.

• 24:27Speaker 06

  Wes, since you had mentioned that black crawling like thing earlier. Uh, Rick, you should also throw in that one of our investigators more recently when we were there. Saw a black mass with indistinct edges around it, moving across the ground. Uh, and with the naked eye, there's there was nothing there, but he saw that. Uh, am I describing that correctly, Rick?

• 24:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, um, he uh, our our, one of our members is an archaeologist and uh. I'm not gonna mention his name because I don't know if he wanted me to do that, but uh, very credible guy, very good guy. And uh, he's very objective. He's not prone to fantasy or anything like that. He was sitting in my uh RV, which was set up down there at the cemetery. And uh, the RV was facing the cemetery itself. He jumped up and said, did you see that? And I said, no, he says, something just moved across the cemetery. And he was, he looked a bit, he looked visibly shaken by it a little bit.

• 25:35Speaker 05

  He says, he, he, we went outside, looked around, we couldn't find anything. And he says it was large, dark, no discernible edges to it. It was just a dark mass that crossed in front of him from right to left. We start to think about it and he's, he had a, uh, eye watch or Apple watch rather. And in the Apple watch, there's a biosensor that measures heartbeat. His heartbeat at that particular moment jumped from sixty two to maybe a hundred and twenty some beats per minute. In that short period of second or two. So he, something happened that affected him bio, you know, it's affected him physically.

• 26:15Speaker 05

  So, um, yeah, that's, that's true, Jack, that was an interesting, uh, encounter. That we can't explain to this day. Was he seeing things? I don't think so. But, uh, yeah.

• 26:28Wes Germer?

  Yeah, it'd be kind of hard to fake your heartbeat like doubling in speed. The, the light that you saw, how big was it?

• 26:37Speaker 05

  Through my image, thermal imager is probably, it was just a pinpoint of light. It wasn't, um, I couldn't see any distinct large mass to it. It was just a pinpoint of light. And it was moving. That's all I could see at the point, at that point. And I had the settings on white hot, which would have, you know, it would have shown up white. I didn't have, I didn't switch it at that time. I was just more concerned about what it was I was just looking at. I didn't know, I thought it might've been, you know, somebody walking through the woods or something. But there were no, there was no sound associated with it. The distance I would guesstimate would probably be fifty to seventy yards, maybe.

• 27:18Speaker 05

  And, uh, you know, then when Harley claims to have seen, you know, that just, it's kind of icing on the cake. And, uh, you know, I had some doubt about what he might've seen, but then when he said it went up the hill toward a specific knoll. And from that particular knoll, I heard that scream. And those owl sounds. So something happened. I didn't get a chance to look at it. And right this point in time, I don't doubt what Harley said or saw. So.

• 27:47Wes Germer?

  I find it interesting that you guys are using thermals to actually capture these lights. It seems like every time I've tried to use a thermal or I've talked to other people that have used a thermal, you never see them when viewing it through the thermal. The minute you take your eye off the thermal camera, bam, there's a light. But that's not necessarily set in stone. I remember one time I was out there with a buddy of mine and he was looking through the thermal and he's looking up at the sky and he's like, oh, wow, check that out. It's a UFO. And I remember looking up and there was nothing there. When I looked through the thermal, I was like, oh, wow, there's actually something there. It's very

• 28:27Wes Germer?

  strange in this genre. You know, after I captured the very first time when I captured that light, it was just this pretty ball of light. I captured it on a night vision camera. And I don't know what they are. I remember I had a, an Aboriginal elder from Australia contact me and he said they travel through the lights. And I thought this guy was insane. I was like, okay, I'm sure there's medication for what you have. I, you know, I don't know about all that. And he told me, he goes, if you look at the light, you'll see a face in it, or you'll see faces in it. And I mentioned that one time on the air and one of my members

• 29:10Wes Germer?

  actually took still shots of the ball of light that we captured. And it did look like there was a freaking face in the ball of light. And I know Paradolia, you know, if you look at the bushes long enough, you'll see 20 Sasquatches. But this kind of stood out to me. I kind of looked at it and was like, oh, wow, that's actually looks like a face. What's your theory on the lights, Jack?

• 29:36Speaker 06

  It's confusing because I've had different kinds of light experiences, including seeing faces inside a light, and I've shown those pictures to my CPRI colleagues who say it's paradoia and it's matrixing, but I have those if you ever want to take a look at them, they clearly look like faces to me. But then I've also seen some lights that clearly have something like a plasma trail around them and they have intentionality, they stop and start and move as if they are trying to make decisions consciously about where to go and not go,

• 30:18Speaker 06

  or maybe they're controlled by somebody that has that intention. And then I've seen lights that are more like auras that almost seem to be associated with other events, like some kind of auditory kind of event happening shortly thereafter, or seeing something visual that you can't explain. And so as far as cryptids go, I have limited experience with this, but I do think there's one story in my past where there has been a light and I was being followed through the woods. And I don't know if I've ever told Rick this story, my kid left a blanket on the top of a mountaintop and we were all in a hotel

• 31:03Speaker 06

  because it was snowing furiously. And I, my wife made me go back and hike a mile and a half up the top of the mountain in a snowstorm to get the little kid's blanket because they weren't going to go to sleep without it. And when I got up to the top of the mountain, I was hearing strange kind of animal noises that I don't know how to describe, and I assumed it was a bear, plenty of bear in that country. And it started following me the way down, and I didn't have any equipment with me, I just, I was freezing my butt off to begin with, and I just wanted to get back to the car, but it mirrored my movement all the way down.

• 31:45Speaker 06

  The mountain and when I got to the bottom of the mountain, I was close enough to my car that I felt like I could run there and get in if necessary. And I turned around to confront it. And that's when I did see this kind of weird light on the mountain further up the trail. And it was moving in and out of the trees in distinctly, but it was clearly there. And it's snowing like crazy. So it's not, it's not something that would be reflecting from moonlight or something like that. And I'm like, whatever it is, I'm out of here. And I got in the car and left. But I just assumed that was a bear. I had never connected

• 32:28Speaker 06

  the fact that it might be something else and that that light might be tied to that.

• 32:34Wes Germer?

  Yeah, that's really interesting, Jack, that not only did you see the light, but it was mirroring your movements as you came down the mountain. And here I witness to say that, you know, like when they stop, it stops. When it, when they move, it moves. And I'll say over 90% of the time, they don't see what it is. And I've said this a million times on the show. I would say about 10 years ago, maybe 11 or 12 years ago, is when I really started becoming interested in the lights because I would interview people who would have these things on their property, these creatures. They would talk about the Bigfoot encounter. They would talk about what's going on on the property. And they

• 33:17Wes Germer?

  always seem to end the conversation with, oh, and by the way, I'm also seeing these weird lights that show up. And it wasn't until about half a dozen times where I stopped and go, well, wait a minute, tell me about these lights. Bigfoot aside, tell me about these lights. And people would go on and on about seeing these lights. And they seem to show up about the same time the creature showed up. Most of the time, though, people won't see the lights and the creature at the same time. What is your theory, Rick, on why people are seeing these lights and these cryptid encounters?

• 33:53Speaker 05

  To be quite honest, I don't know. Um, I don't know what they represent. Uh, I know they are associated with the phenomenon in some way, shape or form, or the activity on the property is associated with the lights. Maybe there's some type of environmental situation or environment that, uh, you know, produces these lights. And on some occasions, I thought these lights might have been what they refer to as the Willow Wisp, which is a methane, uh, you know, the swamp gas, which is methane that ignites. And, uh, but the problem is, you know, that only happens under certain circumstances. There has to have been a recent rainstorm, rotting foliage, uh, humidity, um, and they only appear in like a, a green violet type of color and

• 34:38Speaker 05

  pretty much, you know, close to the ground. But some of these lights that people are seeing, what I saw doesn't, doesn't fit that at all because of what I saw was off the ground. Um, the terrain I was looking at was, uh, hilly. It would go into ravines up on top of a hill. Another node would go down into another ravine and this light appeared to be straight lined. It was coming right across that. I mean, it didn't follow the terrain whatsoever that I could tell. You know, that, that just, it's weird. I don't know what it represents. Like I said, back in 2003, we, uh, you CPR I investigated a case near Bedford, Virginia, where a lady was reporting some type of a weird phenomenon in her, her house. She owned a farm.

• 35:23Speaker 05

  And, um, we went there, we did an investigation and, uh, went through the, went through the numbers and we found out, uh, from her later that, uh, in, I think it was early eighties, she experienced orb activity, you know, witnessed some orbs in her bedroom. She was getting ready for bed, turned the lights out, was getting ready to get into the bed itself. She looked at the foot of her bed. She saw three orbs floating at the foot of her bed in a straight line. Uh, they were about the size of a Uh softball, uh they had some different colors. It was orange, reddish, uh bluish and then yellow. And she says that after a second or two, they started moving in unison

• 36:04Speaker 05

  in a line formation down her hallway. He may, but he made a sharp ninety degree turn and left into her dining room. It shocked her. So she went into, went down the hallway, looked in the dining room, couldn't see them. So, uh, she said to go to bed, somewhat upset her, but she went to bed anyway. And the next morning she got up and went into the dining room to just check around. And one of her dining room windows was open and just a screen was in the window. And she looked at the screen and she saw three discolored spots in the shape of a circular shape of about the size of a softball. And, uh, she, she surmised that, that they probably went through the screen, you know, and because they weren't there prior to this incident. Um, they were about the same size.

• 36:47Speaker 05

  And, uh, you know, she, she just surmised that that's probably what it was. Uh, that these orbs or whatever, whatever they were, went in through the window. She eventually took the screen out, rolled it up, stuck it in her barn. Well, when she told us about this, we asked her if she still had the screen itself. She says she still, she says she believes she did. And she went out to the barn, pulled it out and, uh, luckily she still had it after twenty years. And, uh, she, uh, we looked at the screen. It did have certain, well, I wouldn't say burnt, but discolored spots on it, three circular spots on it. And, uh, thought that was interesting. We asked if we could have it analyzed. And she agreed. So we took the screen and had one of our members who was a radio chemist,

• 37:31Speaker 05

  uh, worked for a lab in Eastern Virginia. And he decided that, you know, you'll give it to me. I'll check it out. And, uh, we gave it to him and a few weeks later he gets sent us a report. The report was extraordinary. He, um, if you want me, I can, you know, I've got the report, excerpts of the report itself. And if you'd like, I can touch base on it.

• 37:51Wes Germer?

  Yeah, please do.

• 37:53Speaker 05

  That's a little lengthy, but I think your listeners would probably find it interesting, especially those who are radiochemists or someone of a scientific background. They might find this analysis interesting in and of itself. Now, I can't vouch for what he's saying here to be accurate, because I'm not qualified to. He's a, he was a very credible guy, very serious about his work, very objective, very critical. But this is what he wrote. "I received a large piece of window screen, and on this screen were four discolored spots," he said, "four. The marks consisted of three large circular spots and one smaller irregularly shaped spot. I took eight one-inch by one-inch samples of the screen. The first four samples

• 38:36Speaker 05

  were of the spots in question. The samples all included a part of the border of the affected and unaffected area. The other four samples were randomly spaced cuttings across the rest of the screen. I tested all eight screen samples for carbon residue using a gentle swipe technique. No carbon residue was present. I then tested for any loose particulate using a very mild solvent rinse. Aside from a bit of normal particulate," he's got in parentheses "dust," that would be expected to be, that would be expected on any type of window screen there was, and there was no loose, other loose particulate on the screen itself. "I then analyzed the screen using a KEVX, K-E-V-X, X-ray fluorescence

• 39:21Speaker 05

  spectrometer, model 770. The screen is composed of a fiberglass material that has been evenly coated with an aluminum powder coating to resist wear. The aluminum coating contained many non-aluminum metallic impurities. The spectroscopy showed that there was a smaller amount of iron impurities in the affected samples. The iron seemed to have been replaced with a new isotope that wasn't present in other samples. The isotope, the isotope is Cobalt 60." It is my opinion that the iron impurities were barraged with a strong neutron flux. This would also explain the increased level of brittleness

• 40:03Speaker 05

  that is present in the affected samples as opposed to the very flexible nature, not the coating on the unaffected areas. Neutron flux causes defects in the crystalline structure of most metals that would explain why the aluminum coating had become so brittle and stiff. However, the strangest anomaly would have to be the fact that the events witnessed, witnesses were still alive. Neutron radiation is particularly harmful to the human body. The levels of radiation that would need to be generated in order to activate the pieces of screen in such a short length of time would have, would have been quite high, much higher than what is considered a lethal dose, would have to have been absorbed by the witnesses.

• 40:47Speaker 05

  This leads me to believe that the radiation was somehow contained within the spheres observed. There's no known theoretical way that a free-floating, non-silent sphere could emit, much less contain such a high level of radioactivity, especially neutron radioactivity, which is usually associated with transseratic elements. This leads me to believe that some force of unknown origin passed through the screen and while doing so entered a large, emitted a large burst of radiation, but for a short period of time as to not seriously harm or kill the witnesses. So he was, you know, there was much more to it, but those are the highlights of this particular analysis. We thought that was very interesting.

• 41:30Speaker 05

  When we found out about the radiation, potential radiation exposure of this lady, we started interviewing her further. She said that, um, she, we told her about the results and she said, well, you know, within a week, two weeks after that happened, I got a bad case of the flu and she remembered it distinctly. She said she had, you know, weakness, vomiting, nausea, um, that type of thing. And she said that, uh, you know, it lasted about a week or two. She just, when it cleared up, she just, you know, forgot about it. Later and few years later, she had hip replacement surgery. And after the surgery, the doctor who did the hip replacement asked her, have you ever been subjected to radiation therapy?

• 42:13Speaker 05

  And she said, no, not that I'm aware of. He says, well, you're the, the bones in your joint were porous and similar porous in a way that's similar to have been subjected to radiation therapy or some type of radiation exposure. She said, well, not that I'm aware of. So that's, that's interesting in and of itself. Might be another data point that might want to take into consideration with regard to his analysis. But yeah, that's interesting. I'm not sure that these, these orbs that people are seeing would associate with these Bigfoot creatures or cryptids are irradiated. But in this particular case, it appears that these particular orbs witnessed worse were

• 42:57Speaker 05

  irradiated to a high degree.

• 43:00Wes Germer?

  I kind of think that they are. And you know, it's interesting that his paper, his research found that Cobalt 60, because that's an artificial isotope. I think it has like a half life of like five years.

• 43:17Speaker 05

  I think so, yeah. I think I've done some research on it, but I've forgotten most of the research. Yeah, but the Cobalt 60 in the isotope that's, that's manufactured somewhat similar to what you get in a nuclear reactor. That's in what I understand, speaking to him, he says that the radiation was so high that it would have been, you know, if you were standing next to a nuclear reactor for a few seconds, that would probably produce the same results. But she didn't, you know, she didn't die or anything like that. She was just sick. I don't know if the radiation was emitting constant, that constant amount, or it took that amount to get through the screen itself. If that's the case, I don't know.

• 43:59Speaker 05

  And I can't, I can't comment on the scientific evaluation because I don't, I'm not qualified to. I can just relate to what he said.

• 44:09Wes Germer?

  You know, when me and my brother captured that light on night vision and the inside of the light looked like power. I mean, it wasn't, it didn't hurt your eyes to look at. It was kind of a pretty light, but my night vision camera had almost died because I'd spent so much time trying to figure it out on our way there. And that's probably the reason why I actually got it on video is because I had the camera in my hand. And I can't really prove this on a scientific level because you can't really say feelings. You can measure feelings. But I had a feeling that this thing was intelligent. This thing was just as interested in us as we were in it. But I didn't want to get too close. And I remember even telling Woody,

• 44:54Wes Germer?

  like, keep your distance. Don't get too close to the thing. It made me nervous. And when we left, that light followed us. It wasn't like a high speed chase. It was like, wow, the light's still there, still coming through the trees. And it went on for miles. That light followed us. I interviewed this guy, gosh, many, many years ago. He was an Australian. And he had these lights on video, pictures, videos. And he kind of had this claim of like, oh, I can call them in. And I was like, okay, sure. But this guy could actually call them in. I mean,

• 45:34Wes Germer?

  they would show up. And he had gotten so comfortable with these lights that one day, he decided he was gonna go touch it. And he had his dog with him. So he reaches out to touch this light that's in his yard. And he described it as like a softball size. I think it was a blue light. He reached out to touch it. And that was the last thing he remembered. He woke up in the hospital. His dog had actually died of radiation poisoning. And he was on death's doorstep. I interviewed him probably a year later. And from the previous couple of years that I interviewed him to when I interviewed him at

• 46:16Wes Germer?

  this point, the second interview, we were doing it over Zoom. He looked like a cancer patient that had about two days left to live. He looked like he was dying. And I asked him, I said, what, what happened? And he said, you know, I went to touch this light and that was the last thing I remembered. He goes, I ended up in the hospital. And the doctor said, do you, do you work in a nuclear power plant? He's like, no, I don't work in a nuclear power plant. And they couldn't figure out there was so much radiation he was giving off. They're like, he should be dead. And I remember hearing that thinking, what in the world are these lights?

• 46:57Wes Germer?

  And why are they showing up when these cryptids are around?

• 47:02Speaker 06

  Very interesting anecdote to go along with this. Rick and I could send you this footage of this light that was captured on surveillance camera. So no human was present, but later we saw it on review. And in this case, it, it moved with intention. It was solid in the center, but you could see a little bit of aura around it. And when it moved, it left a plasma trail, which intrigued my physicist friend. But there was a horse nearby and the horse was grazing in the middle of the night while this is happening. And as the light gets close to the horse, you can see it reflecting off the horse's

• 47:46Speaker 06

  skin and body and fur, but the horse did not see it. Um, and so as best we can tell on this full spectrum camera was luminescing in the ultraviolet range, but it did move apparently with what looked like intentionality. But the anecdote related to this is that in addition to not being able to explain the light, this horse died not too long after this incident happened. And because it was 29 years old, we chalked it up to old age. But now we're talking about these things possibly irradiating. And this thing was all around that horse. Um, and so there's no way to prove it or disprove it, but it's just an interesting thing to think about.

• 48:29Speaker 06

  I'm always intrigued by the fact that there were three of them in the story with the woman and the screen. Why three? But in one of the video clips that the Air Force released last year of unidentified objects, there were three of them orb circular, three moving together in tandem. And I noticed, um, if I'm allowed to mention that I watch Skinwalker Ranch every now and then, they've had a couple of incidents where they had three of them moving in tandem with each other and they were circular, light-like objects. And so I wonder what magic there is in three.

• 49:12Speaker 05

  Interesting number. Uh, that could get into a whole new realm of conversation. Conversation, exactly with the number three in paranormal. But, um, yeah, that's, that's very interesting.

• 49:25Wes Germer?

  That is interesting, Jack. I didn't think about that, that lady that had the three orbs in her home and how they went through the screen. I know in the paranormal world, and I've been told this by a few exorcists, that anytime you see things show up in threes, it's a way of mocking God, kind of a way of mocking the Trinity.

• 49:47Speaker 05

  In my experience, I think it is because uh, about 15 years ago, and I think I mentioned this the last time I was on your show, I investigated a very serious haunting situation in Manassas Park, Virginia. A lady and her husband, she was, uh, being brutally attacked, scratched, beaten, thrown about by something unseen. And, uh, I did an investigation on that. And, uh, after about two years, I was able to get some video evidence of it. Got in touch with a, uh, a religious demonologist that I know. From Connecticut, Dave Considine, and he's a pretty much a protege of Ed and Lorraine Warren, if you're familiar with them.

• 50:29Speaker 05

  He, I told him what was going on, and he says it could very well be a type of influence called oppressive, demonic oppressive activity or oppression. And so I started to look at it in that respect from that vantage point and started, you know, researching, and he told me precisely what I needed to do because I'm Roman Catholic, and so was he. And I started using certain things to help her out, and it apparently helped her a lot. But in her scratches, when she got scratched, she would get scratched on her arms, legs, thighs, her back, neck. They were always in sets of three, all of them.

• 51:11Speaker 05

  And they were very similar in that two, there was three linear scratches side by side, and it was, they were always similar in that two were longer than the third one, which I thought was interesting. I've got photos of those things, if you'd like me to send them to you. But, you know, she, you know, she was, you know, what we did was Roman Catholic, Roman Catholic tradition, you know, holy water and blessed incense was very efficacious against the demonic spirits. So she started using those and certain specific prayers that we gave her and seemed to put a halt to a lot of this activity for a long time until it kind of came back on her with a vengeance. After war, and that's when we got involved, and Dave Considine and I started communicating

• 51:56Speaker 05

  with each other. Eventually, you know, I was able to get video evidence of her getting scratched, and I was able to confirm that. And I sent the evidence to Dave. He consulted a Roman Catholic priest in the Chicago area. And the Chicago priest, this particular Chicago priest was an exorcist that he had worked with in the past. The exorcist says it looks like it's legitimate demonic oppression. And he says he wanted to give, you know, another diagnostic test to see if it was in fact spiritual in nature, instead of her just, you know. Something happening other than that, uh, but she was a cutter or whatever. But anyway, he, uh, he said what he was gonna do is he was gonna do a Catholic Mass in her name.

• 52:41Speaker 05

  Uh, on a Sunday morning at about eight o'clock, which would have been nine o'clock central or eastern, rather. And he wanted us to be there and we made up the excuse that we'd go in and get something or maybe take her to church. Uh, so we went in there at about nine o'clock, the wife and I, we, you know, talked with her, met her. And she was, uh, at exactly nine o'clock, she became very, very ill. She had a migraine headache, she was nauseous, um. She, she was light sensitive, she couldn't even, the curtains opened. Her, uh, and she's not prone to that, that I recall, she's not prone to those type of headaches.

• 53:21Speaker 05

  And it happened, you know, around the time that this mass was going on in her name, we confirmed later, later that the priest, priest did in fact do that. And when she had that violent reaction, now we kinda surmise that, hey, you know, maybe there's something going on here. We got seven days a week, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, and this happens on one. At one point during that period of time. It would, the reason dictates that there might be something to it, so. There, in short, they, uh, they authorized me to do what's referred to as a, as a deliverance type of exorcism. A regular solemn exorcism in the Catholic Church, no one can perform that unless you were an ordained priest with permission of your mission.

• 54:03Speaker 05

  Well, they gave me permission to do this with a specific prayer, and I'm not gonna mention the prayer, but it's a specific prayer to Saint Michael. And, uh, Saint Michael, she happens to be my, uh, my, uh, my confirmation name, my middle name, you know, Saint Michael, Michael after Saint Michael. You know, when they had this, you know, had holy waters, so that told that specific prayer. There was no grand finale or anything like that, it was quiet, peaceful. But there was a sense of the environment changed and, uh, the environment became very calm and soothing. And, uh, I was, you know, it's something, you know, inside me said, this is over, it's done. From that point on, she never had another attack.

• 54:46Speaker 05

  And it's been over 10 years and we pretty much keep track with her, track of her on Facebook. She has no, she's had no further attacks since then. Thought that was interesting. And when I did an investigation and we asked, I'm pretty sure that her ailment came from a curse that a coworker had put on her. Because he made certain statements, he did certain things that indicated that. So I'm not certain that that was the case, but sure, it lent itself to being the case in this particular instance. So, you know, everything in a nutshell, that's, that's the three scratches and the number three with regard to negative entity haunting in these cases.

• 55:29Wes Germer?

  I appreciate you sharing that, Rick. I've heard many accounts like that where people get scratched and so it's always three scratches or sometimes even in alien abduction encounters, they always show up in threes, which I think is weird. And as you look across the different genres, you'll see common things. Like for example, this mind speak. It shows up in Bigfoot encounters, it shows up in Dogman encounters. When you look at the alien encounters where people are being abducted or they're communicating with these things. If you listen to the eyewitnesses, the aliens never

• 56:09Wes Germer?

  talk with their mouth. It's always through their mind. And you know, even going back to Dogman for a second, if you listen to the behavior of most of these Dogman encounters, it doesn't sound like an animal. It sounds more like a demon. I remember I had this one guy on the show one time. He shot at one. And this thing would torment this guy. It would focus on him. And if you really listen to how he described the behavior, it sounds like a demon, like getting off on tormenting this guy. Do you think it's all kind of related? Or do you think these are all separate things going on? And there's just a lot of weird coincidences?

• 56:56Speaker 06

  I'll go first and having my base in the paranormal side of things. It's pretty typical to think about residual versus active and those categories seem to work okay for a lot of the data that people get. There are certain things that happen over and over at certain locations. Whereas active events often, in my experience, seem targeted at specific people. We have a member of our team who constantly gets touched. Why not the other 35 people in our organization? Why always this person is the one getting touched?

• 57:40Speaker 06

  And so, just speaking purely about the paranormal world, it does seem like some people get targeted specifically by some of the more active phenomenon.

• 57:52Speaker 05

  There's something about, something else I didn't add in my email to you, Wes. Harley, I told you that Harley was experiencing some paranormal activity while investigating this Bigfoot stuff going on in eastern Tennessee. Well, I told you that he experienced a dogman sighting and which pretty much bothered him a great deal. It bothered him, he was upset with it somewhat and he was kind of in obsession with him. He's always thinking about this particular dogman that he encountered because it bothered him. And then one day, he said that, he called me up later one day and he says, "Something happened that I think you should know." And I said, "What was that?" He says, "I was sitting in my car, I just

• 58:34Speaker 05

  gotten, I just came out of the grocery store. I was sitting in my car and I started thinking heavily about this dogman incident that I had and it would start to bother me. And while I was sitting in the car, I felt this warm, stinging sensation on the side of my neck." And I said, "Well, what happened?" He says, "Well, I looked at myself in the rearview mirror and I had scratches on my neck." And I said, "Was any way it could have happened? You could have accidentally done it?" He says, "No, I was just sitting here still when it happened and they weren't there before." And I just felt this warm heat and then this pain, stinging pain. And he took a photograph of it and sent it to

• 59:17Speaker 05

  me. There were scratch marks on his neck, three scratch marks.

• 59:23Speaker 05

  Similar to the ones from the lady I spoke about before, too long, one shorter than the other. I don't know what the implication of that is, but I start to think heavily on that. I said, could this be demonic in some way? Or is it something else that's similar that even if weren't demonic, is there some other type of phenomena that's occurring that's similar to the demonic? Um, I don't know. But I didn't mention that in my email. Because, uh, you know, I don't know. Went to put a lot of information in there in a short period of time. But that's what happened to him, which is interesting.

• 59:59Wes Germer?

  Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that. It crosses my mind a lot. You know, being in this field, is it deception and it's all kind of related? Or are these truly separate things going on? I'm not so sure. You know, I think about in scripture where it talks about the fallen angels landing on Mount Hermon. Why would they have to land on Mount Hermon if it's an interdimensional being? The way they describe it, it almost sounds like they're landing some sort of ship or something on Mount Hermon. And that's the scripture version. If you read the

• 1:00:40Wes Germer?

  Anunnaki version, there are aliens that landed and on and on and on. It's the same story, just a different perspective. And I appreciate you guys coming on and sharing your insight. What's kind of next for the Quantum Bridge project?

• 1:00:59Speaker 05

  Well, we're looking at continuing our research. We're trying to find as many locations as possible that we could, uh, work in and as many researchers, cryptid researchers as possible, so that we can gather the data that we need. Like I said, CPRI is data oriented. If we can, you know, maybe we may not be able to explain the phenomenon completely, but if we can, if we can correlate environmental data, changes in the environment with the sightings of these creatures, then, um, that, you know, that may give us some data points to work off of and we can just proceed further from there. But it's got to start somewhere.

• 1:01:41Speaker 05

  And, you know, as far as I know, there's there are no other groups like this that are working in tandem with cryptid researchers to try to to collect this data. And we're going to keep trying. We're going to drive forward and we'll see what happens in the future.

• 1:01:58Wes Germer?

  Yeah. And how can people reach out to you?

• 1:02:01Speaker 05

  You can contact us, uh, see the Center for Paranormal Research and Investigations in Virginia. I don't precisely know what the email address is, but we do have a Facebook page and I think of the website. So you can contact them that way, or, you know, you can put my email address in the comments on your show. That would be, uh, that'd be okay, too.

• 1:02:25Speaker 06

  I think the generic email is info at centerpri.org.

• 1:02:33Wes Germer?

  Thanks so much, Dr. Tremel. And I hope people go and check out the Quantum Bridge Project. I welcome more eyes and different mindsets into this subject. Hopefully we'll get answers. And, and like I said, maybe it's all not connected and I'm reading too much into it. And I'm not so sure about that. The Quantum Bridge Project, I really appreciate you coming on, Rick and Jack. Thank you so much for taking the time.

• 1:03:04Speaker 05

  It was great. Thank you. Thank you, Wes. I appreciate you having me back.

• 1:03:08Wes Germer?

  Thanks again, guys. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is [email protected]. And if you get a chance, check out sasquatchchronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone.

• 1:04:09Speaker 07

  Memories of you dear

• 1:04:13Speaker 07

  I saw a moon as a human and lighter The night song And it power grew wider The night song So I put my spirit a little wiser The night song To do in something a quieter The night song This is my home Close it down Memories of you dear Untie your eyes Close at the sky I'll miss my ride Memories of you dear

• 1:05:16Speaker 07

  Put the night song This is my home Close it down Memories of you dear Untie your eyes Close at the sky I'll miss my ride Memories of you dear