Will Slate Pickup Fail? New Ferrari Reveal, Future Classics People HATE Now!

Sell your cool car today on ⁠carsandbids.com ⁠ Thank You To Our Sponsors American Financing - https://AmericanFinancing.net/Doug NMLS 182334, www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org Have a question you want answered on the podcast next week? Ask HERE ⁠https://crsnbds.com/PODQUESTIONS ⁠ Welcome to THIS CAR POD! Doug DeMuro & Friends offers weekly expert insight and opinion, on the breaking automotive stories, the car market, and audience Q&A. MERCH! ⁠https://merch.carsandbids.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  At Edward Jones, we believe rich is about taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your financial advisor personalizes your plan to help you preserve your progress and create something that lasts. Let's find your rich. Edward Jones. Member SIPC.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  New and exclusive holiday decor just launched online at The Home Depot. Check out the viral Grand Duchess collection with smart holiday lights you can control from your phone. Easily customize the twinkle across trees, wreaths, and garlands to match your holiday vibe. Create stunning light effects, then switch it up with the tap of your fingers. Even the man in red will be impressed. Shop the holiday decor you want online only at homedepot.com.

• 0:49Doug DeMuro?

  Hello and welcome to this car pie.

• 0:52Speaker 03

  I'm Ken.

• 0:53Doug DeMuro?

  I'm Felipe. And let's start with the news. Yes.

• 0:56Speaker 03

  It's a Ferrari, so it must be my story. So this is the Ferrari 296 Speciale. We all knew that a lightweight version of the 296 was coming, and that is exactly what this car is. So it still uses 3.0 liter hybrid V6, just like the 296 does, but power goes from 819 horsepower, which was insane, to 868 in torque, rises from 546 to 557. So a pretty big power increase.

• 1:18Doug DeMuro?

  870 horse. That's not a huge increase in torque either.

• 1:22Speaker 03

  But critically, it's lighter. They say it's 132 pounds lighter, which doesn't sound like much, but the 296 wasn't a heavy car to begin with. So as usual, they add more power, they strip more weight up. But the big thing with this car is they've added quite a bit of aero. They've added these little gamma wings at the rear, which Ferrari, since we're good at Montezemmo, so they famously, "We do not do wings." And they added these two little wings at the back, which generate a lot more downforce. 959 pounds of downforce, 150 miles an hour.

• 1:50Doug DeMuro?

  That's a pretty legit amount, because the car only weighs... Do you want an explanation?

• 1:56Speaker 03

  Do you need to?

• 1:56Doug DeMuro?

  The car only weighs, what, I don't know, 3200 pounds. So a thousand pounds of downforce means it's providing a pretty, that's a lot of weight pushing the car down, keeping it on the ground.

• 2:05Speaker 03

  I don't have a comparison. Well, for perspective, the standard car produces 650. So it's a pretty big jump.

• 2:10Doug DeMuro?

  Is this car still rear-wheel drive?

• 2:11Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:12Doug DeMuro?

  Damn. 870 horsepower through rear-wheel drive, and we thought the Hellcat was insane.

• 2:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's gonna be pretty rowdy, and it already at laps Ferrari, two seconds a lap faster than the 296. It's putting out down the same time as the SF90, which of course is not a desirable car.

• 2:27Doug DeMuro?

  Well, and this, doesn't this seal the fate of the SF90?

• 2:30Speaker 03

  I mean, yeah, this is, if they were, I mean, as if the market values weren't a hammer blow enough.

• 2:35Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 2:35Speaker 03

  This thing is just...

• 2:36Doug DeMuro?

  Because I'm looking at this and I'm thinking, this is gonna be limited, not physically, they won't limit the number, but it's gonna be a lesser production car, whereas there's a lot of SF90s. The power on this, the performance on this is absolutely unbelievable, it's gonna be incredible. I think it looks cool as hell.

• 2:49Speaker 03

  I, I totally agree.

• 2:50Doug DeMuro?

  The regular one already does, and then this looks even cooler.

• 2:51Speaker 03

  I totally agree, and it's coming out, they say, first quarter of 2026 in coupe version, and then they're going to have a spider version as well. And they're, and they're all already sold out.

• 3:00Doug DeMuro?

  They're not all already sold out. Are they saying that still?

• 3:02Speaker 03

  They're saying that, yeah.

• 3:03Doug DeMuro?

  Why do they say that? They're gonna sell this for multiple model years, I mean, this isn't gonna, this is not already sold out.

• 3:08Speaker 03

  They, they've already offered it to customers who have owned stuff already, there's some stipulation.

• 3:11Doug DeMuro?

  It's sold out in the sense that they will sell them out, no problem.

• 3:14Speaker 03

  Right, I agree with that.

• 3:15Doug DeMuro?

  It's verbal.

• 3:16Speaker 03

  Which in Ferrari world is all you need, really, for them to say, yeah, but prices really haven't been announced yet, obviously for the US market with tariffs, it will be a little bit different, but a lot of people are expecting it's gonna be around half a million dollars, somewhere in that range.

• 3:30Doug DeMuro?

  What is a 296 car in it?

• 3:33Speaker 03

  About 130, 140.

• 3:34Doug DeMuro?

  296 base MSRP is 350, from the 400s with options. So, yeah, like, and for a spider, like, probably 375, so 450 with options, so this will start around 500, that seems like it.

• 3:44Speaker 03

  That seems about right, yeah.

• 3:45Doug DeMuro?

  And it's still a bargain compared to SF90.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  Right, it's, to me...

• 3:49Doug DeMuro?

  Which starts at 525, but they all seem to be equipped in the 650, 700 range, and they sell for 264.

• 3:55Speaker 03

  Right, so it's a, it's a bargain by that comparison, and, I mean, yes, you have six cylinders as opposed to eight in that car, but like... I'd rather have this car.

• 4:02Doug DeMuro?

  I saw something about the steering wheel having physical controls.

• 4:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:06Doug DeMuro?

  And that being notable.

• 4:07Speaker 03

  I did notice that.

• 4:08Doug DeMuro?

  So I was actually surprised to see that because I just did a video with the 12-cylinder.

• 4:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:13Doug DeMuro?

  And they're still using the capacitive touch guys. And but they must have received some feedback because this is their very newest car. And they still, looking at that interior photo, you can pull it up if you want, just type in 296 Speciale interior.

• 4:27Doug DeMuro?

  They still have a lot of those capacitive touch guys that people don't seem to like. But the steering wheel itself, they have gone back to actual buttons. Now, I don't think that's true of the start-stop button. I think it's still a thing.

• 4:39Speaker 03

  Hard to see here, but.

• 4:40Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, hard to tell. Maybe it's a button. But regardless, all of this stuff in all the other cars, including the regular 296, is the capacitive touch. And it's not the easiest thing to use. When you slide your fingers over, it's hard to, the system has a hard time interpreting what you're doing. Physical buttons here is definitely going to make life a little bit easier. That alone makes this car more desirable.

• 4:59Speaker 04

  Do you think it's going to be a differentiation they make for their more track-focused models where that might matter more?

• 5:04Doug DeMuro?

  I have a suspicion. I'll bet they roll that back. This is the beginning of going back to some of the.

• 5:08Speaker 03

  Because, I mean, again, with the Ferrari, especially with the start button, I'm going to feel like I'm doing something.

• 5:12Doug DeMuro?

  I don't mind the capacitive touch controls actually for a lot of the stuff. And I know it's cheaper for them to make. So it's like kind of a okay for consumers, win for the company, no problem. The steering wheel is a drawback, especially because Ferrari puts almost all of their infotainment in the gauge cluster, not in the center. So you're controlling it all with those little things. And it's a little difficult. When you slide left, sometimes the thing interprets that as a left tap as opposed to a slide. And that can get annoying, especially when you're going 300 miles an hour.

• 5:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 5:37Doug DeMuro?

  Or something.

• 5:38Speaker 03

  On the Audubon, of course.

• 5:39Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, next one. This is a big one. Filippo, tell us about it.

• 5:42Speaker 04

  All right, this is the new slate.

• 5:44Doug DeMuro?

  Filippo was there when the cover was pulled off the slate at some sort of event space in Long Beach.

• 5:50Speaker 04

  They had an event last week and they drove in. They drove into the airplane hangar in a slate.

• 5:55Doug DeMuro?

  They did. They rented out an event space. After this, they had the gold-farb wedding. They had to get slate out of there.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  It'll be out by 11:30.

• 6:04Doug DeMuro?

  We gotta set up.

• 6:06Speaker 04

  But this is the new Slate. Slate is a whole new car company that is funded in large part by Jeff Bezos and by the dude that owns the LA Dodgers, as well as some other investors. And their goal is to keep cars as simple as possible. So everything they're doing is about simplicity. You might notice that none of them are painted. That's because they're designed to be easy to wrap. And you can wrap it, you can buy a wrap from Slate, or you can bring it to your own wrap installer. There are a bunch of other components that you expect to be in a car that aren't in the Slate in the name of simplicity.

• 6:35Doug DeMuro?

  Like a radio.

• 6:36Speaker 04

  Like a radio.

• 6:37Doug DeMuro?

  You want a radio?

• 6:38Speaker 04

  You want any infotainment system? Too bad.

• 6:40Speaker 03

  You as a native European must love this. Just no options of any kind. If you could give it.

• 6:45Speaker 04

  Many options, many customization options, but nothing standard.

• 6:48Speaker 03

  Standards, sorry.

• 6:48Speaker 04

  Nothing required. It's a cool idea, right? Like, keep the build process really, really simple. Keep it really standardized. And then offer a bunch of customizations that, in their words, get like flat-packed shipped to the consumer. So you might notice there's an SUV available. There's also a slint-back SUV available. You buy the pickup truck and you then buy the additional seats and roof that goes in the SUV and they ship it to your house.

• 7:14Doug DeMuro?

  Here's my problem.

• 7:16Speaker 04

  Which one? Because there's some more problems.

• 7:18Doug DeMuro?

  The starting price is 27.5.

• 7:20Speaker 04

  They're advertising it as after-tax credits, it being under 20 grand. Tax credits right now are $7,500. So, yeah.

• 7:26Doug DeMuro?

  So, so it's 27.499.

• 7:28Speaker 04

  Which is the same price as a Ford Maverick, by the way.

• 7:31Doug DeMuro?

  Really?

• 7:31Speaker 04

  The Maverick is 26.9 MSRP. So, yes.

• 7:35Doug DeMuro?

  With destination? Yeah, 27. That's interesting. That's one of my problems, by the way. This is a two-door.

• 7:41Speaker 04

  It's a two-door.

• 7:42Doug DeMuro?

  The market doesn't want two doors.

• 7:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, but the market might want two doors. There's none for sale. Nobody knows.

• 7:47Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, well, let's go through some of the two-door SUVs that have.

• 7:49Speaker 04

  The Bronco.

• 7:50Doug DeMuro?

  No, the Wrangler is the best example of it. The Wrangler was a two-door for years and years, and they came out with a four-door. And do you know the mix now? It's 85.15. The four-doors are 85% of Wrangler sales. Let's talk through the other two-door SUVs that have succeeded over the years. The Chevy S10 Blazer, the Ford Explorer Sport, the Isuzu Amigo. The Defender 90. What's the model mix there?

• 8:09Speaker 04

  Of zero.

• 8:10Doug DeMuro?

  A Defender. 97 to 3.

• 8:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:13Doug DeMuro?

  So it's a two-door only. And by the way, I wasn't just talking about SUVs. Pickups, too. The Maverick is a four-door pickup. The market likes four-door pickups now.

• 8:21Speaker 04

  They.

• 8:22Doug DeMuro?

  Is there an accessory to add?

• 8:24Speaker 04

  Add on doors? No, but you can add seats. Couple of other.

• 8:29Speaker 04

  Couple of other fun facts about it. There is a front trunk that they advertise as being able to fit two carry-on sized suitcases. So that's something.

• 8:37Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, that's actually a pretty big deal.

• 8:39Speaker 04

  It will have, it's rear wheel drive, 201 horsepower, something like an 8 seconds 0 to 60 time is what they're claiming. By default, the default configuration, which starts at 27.5, will have 150 miles of range, thereabouts. You can add on an extended range battery that brings it to 240.

• 8:56Doug DeMuro?

  So for the same price as a Maverick,

• 8:59Speaker 04

  It's a tough stuff.

• 8:59Doug DeMuro?

  You get two less doors, no radio, no paint, 150 miles of range.

• 9:05Speaker 04

  Crank windows.

• 9:06Doug DeMuro?

  Crank windows.

• 9:07Speaker 04

  Although I meant barg.

• 9:08Doug DeMuro?

  People are gonna freak out and be like, oh, this is exactly what I want. And then are they gonna buy it?

• 9:13Speaker 03

  Let me, let me do the math. Carry that one.

• 9:15Speaker 04

  As is legally mandated though, they do have a backup camera, they have automatic emergency braking, and they have collision avoidance, or the collision detection.

• 9:24Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, well, the backup camera is federally mandated.

• 9:26Speaker 03

  Is this the slowest EV on sale in current?

• 9:29Doug DeMuro?

  No, there's some slow stuff out there.

• 9:31Speaker 04

  But it's close.

• 9:31Doug DeMuro?

  Subaru makes the Solterra, and I don't know if it's slower, but in my mind it is.

• 9:36Speaker 03

  8.1.

• 9:36Speaker 04

  So there's things that I like and things that I don't like, including having a seat in person. I love the approach to simplicity. Like, there's a lot of stuff in cars that a lot of consumers don't want and would be willing to trade savings for. And I also am a big fan of any time a manufacturer tries really hard to simplify what they're building. If there are cost savings that result, and they have not found those cost savings clear.

• 9:59Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, it's kind of surprising.

• 10:00Speaker 04

  The price isn't right.

• 10:01Doug DeMuro?

  Well, it's kind of surprising. For the same money as a Maverick, and they're saying pre, they're saying for the, if you don't include the incentive, it's 27.5. Well, the incentive may go away. There's a lot of talk about that.

• 10:11Speaker 04

  Q4 2026 is what they're targeting, which really means they'll deliver a truck in December of 2026.

• 10:16Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, and that's far away. That's two years from now.

• 10:18Speaker 04

  I would not be that confident that incentives will exist. Now, they do say that it's gonna be made at a factory in Indiana, and the batteries will also be made in the US. So from a tariff perspective, the Ford Maverick might increase notably in price.

• 10:30Doug DeMuro?

  Because it's built in Mexico.

• 10:31Speaker 04

  Built in Mexico. This will not, in theory, it's built fully in the US, which is cool.

• 10:38Speaker 04

  And I like parts of the concept, but it's not the right price.

• 10:41Doug DeMuro?

  It is an interesting idea in concept. However, when I was looking at what is all accessorized. If you want a radio, if you want paint, if you want this and that, they're gonna end up a normal, a normally equipped one that most people are gonna want is gonna end up costing $35,000. And for that money, you get 150 miles range, 200 horsepower in a two-door truck. And for 35, the Maverick offers a quite an appealing, you can get a mid-trim or high-trim Maverick, or a lot of used stuff.

• 11:07Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 11:08Doug DeMuro?

  And I imagine that used cars is one of the, is something they're really trying to focus.

• 11:12Speaker 04

  A lot of their messaging was around, you previously were only in the market for a used car, and now you can get a new car.

• 11:16Doug DeMuro?

  Well, now you can get a new two-door SUV.

• 11:18Speaker 03

  With crank windows and a 0-16 time from the 1970s.

• 11:23Speaker 04

  I meant to, I don't care about the spec for that. I think that really cars are overbuilt for the average consumer from a power perspective. Like, they don't.

• 11:29Doug DeMuro?

  If you could deliver me an underbuilt car for 15, I'd be, for 15, not pre-incentive.

• 11:34Speaker 04

  15, period. Not 27.5.

• 11:36Doug DeMuro?

  Because the incentive, is the incentive off your income taxes?

• 11:40Speaker 04

  There is a phase out, so you need to be making under.

• 11:43Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, but it is off your income taxes.

• 11:45Speaker 04

  You can get the credit immediately upon purchase.

• 11:47Doug DeMuro?

  Okay.

• 11:48Speaker 04

  Right now.

• 11:48Doug DeMuro?

  Let me name some other great, successful two-door SUVs. Land Rover Freelander, canceled, failed. Suzuki Sidekick, canceled, failed. Toyota Land Cruiser, canceled, failed. Toyota RAV4, canceled, failed. Zuzu Viacross, canceled, failed. Kia Sportage, canceled, failed. Nissan Murano, canceled, failed.

• 12:01Speaker 04

  Two-door Kia Sportage?

• 12:02Doug DeMuro?

  Yes, with a convertible.

• 12:04Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, that's right.

• 12:04Doug DeMuro?

  Mercedes G-Wagon, canceled, failed. Zuzu Trooper, canceled, failed. Jimmy, canceled, failed.

• 12:10Speaker 04

  What Slate has different is they have the pickup truck. You can also get flat-packed, the hardtop, like that, and the slant-back one.

• 12:17Doug DeMuro?

  This vehicle needs four doors and a lower price.

• 12:19Speaker 04

  This is the kind of, it certainly needs a lower price point. I don't disagree about fur. I could imagine it being a really appealing fleet vehicle. It's simple. You can presumably buy a bunch from Slate directly. You can customize it easily to represent your business.

• 12:33Doug DeMuro?

  You don't need your fleet guys having a radio.

• 12:35Speaker 04

  Well, fundamentally, if you're ever, if you see what fleet drivers are driving, they're using their own tablets for navigation anyways, because it's tied to their company. You don't need to have an inbuilt navigation system.

• 12:46Doug DeMuro?

  Well, hey.

• 12:47Speaker 04

  You don't need that stuff. I do agree. That's appealing for this, but for a consumer.

• 12:50Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, a little less appealing for a consumer, because once you get, I mean, wraps aren't cheap. Wrapping a vehicle is not cheap.

• 12:55Speaker 04

  No. This is purposely designed to be cheaper.

• 12:59Doug DeMuro?

  Nonetheless, I mean wrapping a full car is still two grand. I mean, a car this size, it's little and it's designed for that. Maybe it'll have some efficiencies, but it's going to be expensive if you want any sort of paint on, etc. I just, I think the concept of it is cool. Like you do the concept of like a cheaper.

• 13:12Speaker 04

  I like the idea.

• 13:13Doug DeMuro?

  Scaled down, etc. But not in love.

• 13:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, I also do legitimately love that they're trying to keep things simple.

• 13:21Doug DeMuro?

  It's just hard for me to explain how much consumers want four doors. Every pickup truck has switched away from this. Every SUV has switched away from this.

• 13:29Speaker 04

  Also fundamentally, at that price point, where you're actually gonna, where you're gonna be most successful is if you can finance everybody. So really, if this truck comes out and they're very well funded, so it will, their success is gonna be partially on price and features and partially on like, can you beat Nissan and Hyundai at the finance anybody game? Do you have the right financing partners? Can you get deliveries out to customers? Can you make it seem appealing? Is your advertising strategy a good one? And they are backed by people that have had incredible success. So maybe.

• 14:01Doug DeMuro?

  Four doors. Four doors. People are gonna watch this and argue with me, but I've watched, when I was a kid, every truck was two doors.

• 14:09Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 14:09Doug DeMuro?

  And then this concept of a four-door truck came out and now for Maverick, for Ridgeline, for Grenadier, Quartermaster, for Santa Cruz, they didn't even consider a two-door version. It's not even discussed.

• 14:20Speaker 04

  No.

• 14:20Doug DeMuro?

  And when you look at Tacoma and when you look at Frontier and Ranger.

• 14:23Speaker 04

  They're all four.

• 14:24Doug DeMuro?

  The percentage of four-door sales is absolutely astronomical.

• 14:27Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 14:28Doug DeMuro?

  Either crew cab or extended cab or four-door.

• 14:30Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 14:31Doug DeMuro?

  Then you go to the SUV side and it's the same deal. So that, that in itself, from an architecture perspective, is already a drawback of the car. Then you get into stuff like nothing standard and it's pricey.

• 14:41Speaker 04

  I will say, so part of the nothing standard, you can get customizations. Part of their pitch at the event was, okay, you can pay the 20 grand upfront or whatever, and then when you are able to, you can decide to add these customizations. So fair. By the way, it looks a lot like a Bronco 2. I've been trying for a while to place what the SUV looks like.

• 14:59Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 15:00Speaker 04

  And it's a Bronco 2.

• 15:00Doug DeMuro?

  Bronco 2, yeah. Which, by the way, failed.

• 15:03Speaker 04

  For Kenan's sake, though, it is two feet shorter than a Maverick.

• 15:07Doug DeMuro?

  Two feet shorter than a Maverick. Maverick is not short, though. That's interesting. That's actually bigger than I was expecting. A Maverick is actually pretty long. A Maverick is 200 inches long, so this is two feet.

• 15:16Speaker 04

  174, 76.

• 15:18Doug DeMuro?

  180. Two feet shorter.

• 15:20Speaker 04

  Two feet.

• 15:21Doug DeMuro?

  170. Okay, that's pretty good. That's like a Corolla.

• 15:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:24Doug DeMuro?

  But you lose the doors.

• 15:25Speaker 04

  An inch longer than a Crosstrek or something, or shorter than a Crosstrek.

• 15:27Doug DeMuro?

  Anybody can get two feet off a Maverick if you pull out the back doors. Hell, why don't they pull out the front doors? They could be four feet shorter. No receipts at all! Okay, move on to the next news.

• 15:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:36Doug DeMuro?

  With everything that's happening in the economy, it feels like we're all walking on shaky ground. Prices are stuck at really high levels, and it seems like nothing is affordable anymore. It's no wonder many are relying on credit cards to cover the gaps. Credit card debt is skyrocketing, and it's leaving a lot of people stressed out. If you're a homeowner, you don't have to face this uncertainty alone. My friends at American Financing can help you take control. They can help you access the equity in your home to help you pay down that high-interest credit card debt, giving you peace of mind and real savings. On average, people like you are saving $800 a month. Plus, American Financing may close your loan in as little as 10 days. Their mortgage consultants are salary-based, so there's no incentive for them to put you in a loan that doesn't make sense. And, American Financing is family-owned, and they've been around for 25 years.

• 16:21Doug DeMuro?

  Don't let the chaos of the economy get the best of you. Call American Financing now. It costs you nothing to get started, and you may be able to delay two mortgage payments, giving you a cushion in this uncertain time. Call today, 866-885-1881, or visit americanfinancing.net/doug. NMLS 182334, nmlsconsumeraccess.org.

• 16:45Doug DeMuro?

  Ooh, Porsche. Okay. Does anybody know about this?

• 16:47Speaker 03

  No, I have absolutely no idea.

• 16:49Doug DeMuro?

  Porsche released a video about this car, which was some sort of old Porsche race car that was titled for the road.

• 16:55Speaker 03

  The 917.

• 16:55Doug DeMuro?

  Sean's mad at me because I don't know, but I don't get into this stuff.

• 16:57Speaker 03

  The 917 that was titled for the road.

• 16:59Doug DeMuro?

  It was titled for the road. It's a big deal. If you're into Porsches, if you went to all the Porsche events, you know what this is. I don't know what it is. It's some Porsche, okay? Race car. That was offered, that someone made into a road car, okay? So they released a video teasing their current race car, their current flagship race car, this, which is the 963. And they kind of implied in the video that they will be making a road legal version of the 963. Sort of a tribute, a hearken back to the old road, that road, that particular road legal 917. Now, in the Porsche supercar community, of which I am a part.

• 17:35Speaker 03

  Obviously.

• 17:36Doug DeMuro?

  There was a lot of fear that the next Porsche supercar would be fully electric. And Porsche had teased this Mission X that was this electric supercar. And then they never, they haven't said, that was always, that was a concept car. They never claimed they were going to build it. But there was thought that Porsche makes a concept car. Porsche typically ends up building it. There was thought that Porsche had like pulled back from that. None of this had ever become official, but through various inklings, we had heard that Porsche had pulled back from Mission X. They didn't want to build an electric supercar because they've seen the lack of success that other electric supercars have had. The question is, is this the next Porsche supercar after Carrera GT, 918, this? Or is this some special thing that they're going to make in very small numbers, like a road legal version of this? I mean, this would be a very special car if they made it.

• 18:20Doug DeMuro?

  Hard for me to believe they're going to be able to find big amount of buyers for a road legal version of a race car. They're usually quite compromised.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  Right. Of course, you drove one recently, like the Aston Martin Valkyrie is that, and it's just a race car.

• 18:33Doug DeMuro?

  But it's definitely. To that point, you know, Aston did that with the Valkyrie. Maybe Porsche is sitting there saying, eh, well, why don't we? I mean, why don't we give it a try?

• 18:42Speaker 03

  They've done this before. The Dauer 962 is a good example. That was a 962 race car with license plate.

• 18:47Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 18:47Speaker 03

  It's so that, I mean.

• 18:48Doug DeMuro?

  And the Carrera GT is a Formula One engine. So you could argue.

• 18:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. Does not have an F1 engine.

• 18:56Doug DeMuro?

  You could make the argument that they've done it many times.

• 18:58Speaker 04

  What year was the Carrera GT announced?

• 19:01Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, in 2000.

• 19:02Speaker 04

  What year was the 918 announced?

• 19:04Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, we announced it, uh, in March 18 of 2013, I believe. I think that's true. No, 2012.

• 19:11Speaker 03

  And production began in 15?

• 19:13Doug DeMuro?

  Around there.

• 19:14Speaker 04

  So like 05, 2015?

• 19:15Doug DeMuro?

  No, we announced it in 918 of 12, I think.

• 19:18Speaker 03

  I see what you're going.

• 19:19Speaker 04

  No, no, they haven't had a

• 19:22Doug DeMuro?

  It's been a while.

• 19:22Speaker 04

  supercar in a decade. That is their kid. This doesn't seem like that, though. This seemed like the kind of thing where Ford, third gen Ford GT is a race car.

• 19:31Doug DeMuro?

  Either way, I will say one thing to Porsche's deep, deep credit. Last week, we made fun of that ridiculous 70 years of the 70s or whatever the hell out of yellow thing.

• 19:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, BS.

• 19:41Doug DeMuro?

  This ain't BS.

• 19:41Speaker 03

  No, this is pretty real. They slapped back pretty quickly.

• 19:45Doug DeMuro?

  This is cool. Like, like whether or not it's made, and my guess is what they're gonna do is build this in a tremendously small production volume like they did with the 935. Remember, that was a GT2 RS that was a race car for the, and it was very slow production. I got in many coachments. We didn't drive it around. It seemed very compromised, but there's a market for that. And if they did a this as a road car, that would be even cooler.

• 20:07Speaker 03

  No, I agree. I don't think this is their next supercar. I think it's something else. And it'll be exciting to see what they

• 20:13Doug DeMuro?

  Pretty damn cool. If they actually, any sort of road version of this, and by the way, they said it's coming June of 25, which is, you know, two months away, they'll probably show it. Uh, my presumption is very expensive, very limited production, very compromised car for only a very certain type of buyer, not your Carrera GT buyer who wants a car to cruise around on weekends, but guys who are like really dedicated Porsche people and in theory, track people. But it would be cool, whatever it is, a road going version of this would be cool.

• 20:38Speaker 03

  I guess if you're looking at it in lineage terms, it's like the Carrera GT is the 959 Carrera GT 918, that's its own separate thing. The 962 Dower, the GT1, maybe.

• 20:49Doug DeMuro?

  This is more like a 996 GT1. That's, that's

• 20:52Speaker 03

  I think that's how I think about it.

• 20:53Doug DeMuro?

  That's probably a good example of what it is. How cool would that be if that was a thing?

• 20:57Speaker 03

  Be damn cool. Build it.

• 20:59Doug DeMuro?

  And I will say also, I do struggle every day to try to connect my career duty with the racing.

• 21:05Speaker 03

  Well, I watch you struggle.

• 21:06Doug DeMuro?

  And the 918 is the same, right? The 918 used the powertrain from the LeMans car at the time, or whatever it was.

• 21:11Speaker 03

  The 919R, I think.

• 21:12Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, yeah, the 919R.

• 21:14Speaker 03

  Sure, of course.

• 21:14Doug DeMuro?

  But to actually take the race car and turn it into a road car, there's no struggle there. That'd be cool.

• 21:20Speaker 03

  I'm here for it.

• 21:22Doug DeMuro?

  Next news story, immediately. Ah, yes. Cars.

• 21:27Speaker 04

  It's cars. They're all impacted by tariffs. No, the reason we're talking about it again, because I'm making us talk about it every week. Yesterday, so on Tuesday, President Trump signed a couple of executive orders that are intended to help the automotive industry. The administration's clearly been getting a lot of complaints from manufacturers, from dealers, from lobby groups, and there were a couple of very technical executive orders intended to help them. One of them says that, basically, cars are not subject to the aluminum and steel tariffs. The thought being, there's already a 25% tariff on anything being, any car being imported. They don't need to also be doubly tariffed on these other components. That helps, presumably. The second is related to the auto parts tariffs.

• 22:09Speaker 04

  So, major auto parts, starting May 3rd, if memory serves, are also going to be subject to a 25% tariff. There's now a sort of a carve-out where if you're a manufacturer and you also build cars in the US for the American market, you can kind of be exempted from a portion of the value of that. It's 3.75% of the value of American-made vehicles. None of it, I will say, from what I've seen, there's no clear guidance on how, when, who's calculating, what formulas, who decides how much it's paying, what the consequences are for guessing wrong, whatever. Still a lot of questions. The automotive industry, I don't think is... I think they would like more support on tariffs, on limiting tariffs.

• 22:49Speaker 04

  This is a little bit of like a gesture out saying, hey, we're listening-ish.

• 22:56Speaker 00

  At Edward Jones, we believe rich is more than caring about the latest and greatest. It's also taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your dedicated financial advisor meets you where you are with personalized financial strategies that help protect what matters, so you can preserve your progress while creating a path forward. The key to being rich is knowing what counts. Let's find your rich, together. Edward Jones. Member SIPC.

• 23:26Doug DeMuro?

  The tariff thing, so a little bit more rolling back of the ridiculous.

• 23:31Speaker 04

  Lightly rolling back.

• 23:33Doug DeMuro?

  Continuing to, people were getting yippy, remember that?

• 23:36Speaker 03

  We're not rolling back, we're making it even better. I am still tariffing everything, everything's tariffed.

• 23:41Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, still the most beautiful word.

• 23:43Speaker 03

  Still the most beautiful word, my favorite word.

• 23:45Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, move on to the next news story. Thank you for the tariff update, Felipe.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  Oh, ah, yes, so Mercedes, Mercedes AMG has the logo.

• 23:52Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, yes, the AMG logo.

• 23:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm just putting that together now. They recently released this graphic, which is just an AMG background with some very swoopy looking coupe thing, a four-door coupe car. Now, this is allegedly going to be their first EV. AMG has not built an EV.

• 24:09Speaker 04

  What about the EQS AMG?

• 24:12Speaker 03

  They said, no, this is a bespoke AMG. They even built one from the ground up themselves. And so AMG is saying this platform is going to become that, which I'm sure will be wildly successful.

• 24:21Doug DeMuro?

  That's just what we need. Another, have they looked at the money under the hood of RS E-tron GTs? RS E-tron GT's got a 160 sticker. You can walk out the dealer with one for like 37.5. And AMG's like, yeah, we gotta get in on that.

• 24:35Speaker 03

  Now, I will say, it depends, I mean, they, they are alluding to exactly the kind of motors they're going to use, but they're not telling us how many of them they're going to use.

• 24:44Doug DeMuro?

  Seven, four.

• 24:45Speaker 03

  Each engine makes, or each motor makes 480 horsepower, 590 foot-pounds of torque.

• 24:49Doug DeMuro?

  It's gonna be two, sorry.

• 24:51Speaker 03

  If it's three, I mean, I mean, there's an entire, it's a possibility this car has 2,000 horsepower.

• 24:56Speaker 04

  How many motors does the highest trim EQS have? Two, right?

• 25:00Speaker 03

  Two, I think. I think. And even other competitors, like, three is kind of, but BMW is looking at four.

• 25:08Doug DeMuro?

  A lot of them have four. So that's interesting. So they've released the power output of the motor.

• 25:13Speaker 03

  Of the motor, but they won't tell us how many they're going to use.

• 25:15Doug DeMuro?

  Um, I will, so this is a Taycan rival, that's what it's.

• 25:18Speaker 03

  Absolutely, this is definitely.

• 25:19Doug DeMuro?

  What have they said, announced ETA?

• 25:21Speaker 03

  They, they're saying that this is going to be, uh, no, they haven't said a specific ETA, but they're, it's, the, June is at some point, sometime this summer.

• 25:29Doug DeMuro?

  They'll reveal it.

• 25:30Speaker 03

  They'll reveal it. And then when it's gonna come out, your guess is as good as mine sometime 26.

• 25:33Speaker 04

  Can I ask you a question?

• 25:34Doug DeMuro?

  This segment is so strange.

• 25:36Speaker 04

  So I'm shocked that.

• 25:37Doug DeMuro?

  AMG-specific vehicles, the SLS AMG.

• 25:41Doug DeMuro?

  The AMG GT.

• 25:42Speaker 04

  The AMG GT, I'm getting there. The AMG GT after that, which also had the AMG GT 63 four door.

• 25:47Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 25:48Speaker 04

  And 53 four door.

• 25:49Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 25:49Speaker 04

  And I think 43 four door. They currently have an AMG GT. That's also the SL.

• 25:54Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 25:54Speaker 04

  So not AMG SL.

• 25:56Doug DeMuro?

  Well, there's no non AMG SL. So that is purely an AMG car.

• 25:59Speaker 04

  Is it the Mercedes AMG SL? Okay.

• 26:01Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 26:02Speaker 04

  And then, like, what is, why?

• 26:05Doug DeMuro?

  To take on the Taycan, I guess. Take on the Taycan.

• 26:08Speaker 04

  Excellently selling Taycan.

• 26:10Doug DeMuro?

  It is surprising. I guess they just figure they have to be in this segment.

• 26:13Speaker 04

  But why?

• 26:14Doug DeMuro?

  The Taycan is not a huge hit. It's okay. It hasn't, it hasn't, from a sales perspective, I actually think it's a great car. It just hasn't been a huge hit. It's surprising, especially because the Taycan's been out for a few years and has not been successful for a few years, that Mercedes is now doing this. You'd think they would have done it right at the beginning and then.

• 26:29Speaker 03

  Well, of course, if this is an EV skateboard platform that AMG is doing, you can imagine this will translate into the SUVs and other models within the space. But still, like, I agree, it does feel a little weird.

• 26:41Speaker 04

  So is this for the European market, the American market, or the Chinese market? Cause like, it's gotta be for the Chinese market?

• 26:47Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 26:48Speaker 04

  Who else would you be?

• 26:49Doug DeMuro?

  For.

• 26:49Speaker 04

  Right.

• 26:51Doug DeMuro?

  Dude, that AMG GT four door, gas powered, 63.

• 26:55Speaker 04

  Incredible car.

• 26:55Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, love that car so much.

• 26:57Speaker 04

  Truly an incredible.

• 26:58Doug DeMuro?

  But I'm interested in this. I'm curious to see where it ends up. I'm surprised that the world would look at the Taycan and the E-tron GT. And honestly, Mercedes own EVs, like the EQS, and especially the EQS and EQ AMG, which have not been successful.

• 27:10Speaker 04

  Never seen one.

• 27:11Doug DeMuro?

  They're around. And say, yeah, we want it, we want more of this. So maybe, maybe it'll be a V12.

• 27:16Speaker 04

  I'm also curious to see what the styling will be.

• 27:18Doug DeMuro?

  Maybe there's two V12.

• 27:20Speaker 03

  That'd be great.

• 27:21Speaker 04

  Will it be like AMG GT four door styling? Will it be fully separate? The front?

• 27:25Speaker 03

  It looks a lot like a Taycan.

• 27:27Doug DeMuro?

  This looks cool. Whatever it is, looks cool. So I'm excited to see.

• 27:29Speaker 04

  They don't have their own styling language, though. And they've said they're not continuing with the EQ line styling, so.

• 27:35Doug DeMuro?

  The throat lock.

• 27:35Speaker 04

  I love those EQs.

• 27:37Doug DeMuro?

  But the, but the, the market has not loved it. And the market hasn't loved any of these really pricey EVs, especially the performance ones. So it's interesting to see them going after them.

• 27:43Speaker 03

  And you can only imagine how expensive this thing will be. It's just, I mean, it's gonna be brutal.

• 27:47Doug DeMuro?

  All right. Next news story. Interested to see more of that happen.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  So sticking with German manufacturing. So BMW released the M2. This is going to be their, this is like their race car. If you want to go racing, the M2 racing is what you buy.

• 27:58Doug DeMuro?

  Is it like a series?

• 27:59Speaker 03

  It's like, it's, yeah, it's kind of, you can kind of take it on your own.

• 28:02Doug DeMuro?

  Like, like, oh, okay, got it, got it.

• 28:04Speaker 03

  But this car, critically unlike the M2, it does not have a six cylinder engine. This is a two liter twin turbocharged four cylinder engine. BMW is citing the reason it has this is that it puts less strain on the components. So you can use more of the standard components like the cooling system and stuff like that from the normal road going M2. And so it cuts down on cost. They use that, that's the B48 engine that's in this makes 308 horsepower, which is down pretty substantially, that's down 53 horsepower compared to the normal car.

• 28:32Doug DeMuro?

  Lighter though.

• 28:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, 512 pounds lighter.

• 28:34Doug DeMuro?

  It's a race car, it's gonna be fast. Sorry, 512 pounds lighter than the prior M2 racing?

• 28:38Speaker 03

  Than the M2, than the normal M2. But my thing with this is they've said do not vary, the six cylinder is not going anywhere for the normal M2. But I'm like, hmm.

• 28:46Doug DeMuro?

  You think it is?

• 28:47Speaker 03

  They're teasing, I'll bet you, I'll bet you it's, we're going to lose the six cylinder for that car. I mean, we'll definitely lose it for the next generation. I wouldn't be surprised if it's this, some version of the B48.

• 28:57Doug DeMuro?

  Do you think we're gonna lose it for the next generation?

• 28:58Speaker 03

  I think so. I have a feeling if they're putting it in this car to go racing, I get it.

• 29:02Doug DeMuro?

  Even after what happened to the C63?

• 29:05Speaker 03

  But the M2 is not the C60. The C63 has always been big, burly, V8 power. This thing is, the M2 isn't that.

• 29:13Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but they still got a, Mercedes got a huge slap in the face from the market.

• 29:18Speaker 03

  If the M3 had a four cylinder, yeah, I agree with that. But the M2, it's like, hmm, I don't know.

• 29:24Doug DeMuro?

  The size of the old M3.

• 29:25Speaker 03

  I would obviously prefer to have a six cylinder, but I don't know, I just have a feeling. I have a feeling.

• 29:30Doug DeMuro?

  We'll find out.

• 29:30Speaker 03

  Put it on your calendar, market.

• 29:31Doug DeMuro?

  The fact that there's a, the racing car is a four cylinder makes us.

• 29:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly. I think BMW is being a little coy about that, but we'll see.

• 29:38Doug DeMuro?

  If you're thinking about selling your car and it's something cool, don't just trade it in. You'll probably leave thousands of dollars on the table. Instead, you should sell your cool car on Cars and Bits. It's the best place to sell your enthusiast car online. There's a simple submission process. You get full support from our auction team. And most importantly, you're selling directly to other car enthusiasts who actually know what your car is worth. No more lowball offers from dealerships, no tire kickers, no shady classifieds. We've seen our sellers get thousands of dollars more than their trade-in value again and again on Cars and Bids. It's honestly a no-brainer. So, if you're ready to move on to your next fun car, head to carsandbids.com to get started. That's carsandbids.com, the best way to sell

• 30:23Doug DeMuro?

  your enthusiast car. Okay, we have to move on to the Talk Cars segment, which is sponsored by Hippopotamuses.

• 30:31Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 30:31Doug DeMuro?

  Hippopotamuses. You can fit 14 apples in their mouth. Okay, Kenan.

• 30:38Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan, tell us, you have a couple of interesting things to say. Go for it.

• 30:41Speaker 03

  I do have a couple of interesting things to say.

• 30:43Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, wow. He knows it. He knows it. He's confident.

• 30:46Speaker 03

  One is that I have, somebody mentioned on the pod a while ago that I shouldn't get a Cayenne Turbo because I'm young, single, and I should be driving a sports car. It was you and a bunch, and a number of people said this. And so I have really been considering that, and I have been looking at a variety of sports cars because I can't make up my damn mind about what I want. Right now, what I really, really, really want is a first-gen Viper. I love the car so much. I've talked about it before. So I've started looking for one, a couple of deals have kind of fallen through, or like I just didn't get there soon enough or whatever, but I am actively looking.

• 31:16Doug DeMuro?

  So we're doing a first-gen Viper. We're, this is it. We're committed to this.

• 31:19Speaker 03

  I really want.

• 31:20Doug DeMuro?

  When I come back in the fall, you're gonna have a first-gen Viper.

• 31:23Speaker 03

  I would like to have, I'm really trying.

• 31:24Doug DeMuro?

  You gonna pick me?

• 31:25Speaker 04

  A week ago, he was talking about an Alfa Romeo.

• 31:28Doug DeMuro?

  You, by the way, you podcast audience misses, but the other night, I'm having dinner with Kenan, he drops this bomb that he wants to get a four-cylinder 70s Alfa. I'd never heard of this in my life. He's already in contact with some guy in Utah. Try support. Of course you do. And that was one of the things I told him hardcore. I was like, if Filippo supports this, you gotta really think about whether it's a good decision.

• 31:48Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, the reason I want the Alfa is I do want like a vintage motoring experience. Like, I like the idea of having some vintage convertible. And Alfa Romeos are a really easy way to dip into that. They're surprisingly reliable, parts are very around, and they're very highly supported by a very strong community. And so like the Alfa Spider to me is like, not the 80s one, like truly the 70s one, like the Series 2 Alfa Spider, the Camtale, is kind of what I was. Looking at, you don't know what I'm talking about.

• 32:12Doug DeMuro?

  Of course not.

• 32:13Speaker 03

  Our producer does, he's smiling right now.

• 32:15Doug DeMuro?

  Let me ask you this, doesn't the Viper kind of provide sort of an old car driving experience? It's an engine, a seat, there might be seat belts.

• 32:22Speaker 03

  It provides a different one, similar to a car I drove recently, I drove a day Tomaso Pantera recently, which is a kind of a thug of a car. Burly motor, just lots of power and you hold on tight and you go, which I loved, by the way. But the Viper does provide more of that.

• 32:36Doug DeMuro?

  You love this, you love your M5 with your V8, you love your Cayenne with your V8, and you're over here being like, I want to get an Alpha, I want to get a little duetto.

• 32:44Speaker 03

  I drove our producer Sean's car and he has a GTV, a 74 GTV, and it was lovely. It was so good.

• 32:53Doug DeMuro?

  It's a different experience, but it's a lovely experience.

• 32:55Speaker 03

  It is different, it's just, it's more of like the.

• 32:57Doug DeMuro?

  I'm thinking about who you are as, okay, look, the point is, you want a Viper.

• 33:01Speaker 03

  I would like to get a first gen Viper.

• 33:03Doug DeMuro?

  Are you gonna pinky me?

• 33:05Speaker 03

  I don't want to.

• 33:05Doug DeMuro?

  Don't do it. I'll be back in August. Why don't you want to pinky me?

• 33:08Speaker 03

  I don't want, because of something, there are other cars on the list too. But the problem I'm running into is like, there's just not as much out there as like, that I'm like really getting excited about, because what I want costs a lot more. And I don't want to necessarily spend that after my Ferrari heartbreaking experience.

• 33:22Doug DeMuro?

  A lot of 92 Vipers out there and most, most.

• 33:26Speaker 03

  I want a 94, I want an air conditioner.

• 33:27Doug DeMuro?

  He wants air conditioning, he wants creature comfort. Most of the people who own them are tired of them. That's like the primary, the primary thing about the 94 Viper is that the owners are tired of them. I know they don't sell them often, but they're tired of them. Like, that's my point. Like, it's old guys who bought them, they were cool for a couple of years, now their wives don't ride them anymore. They want to sell them, they just don't know they want to. You gotta show up at their barn.

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Well, no, they want to sell them, but then they post them for prices that the market does not agree with, based on the auction site.

• 33:53Doug DeMuro?

  You gotta wait a little while, or you gotta see them, you gotta go to their, you gotta go to their house in West Des Moines, you gotta knock on the door and be like, hey, man. Hey, I know you got that Viper in there, I'm interested.

• 34:04Speaker 03

  I, yeah, if you know somebody out there who has a Viper in their barn.

• 34:08Doug DeMuro?

  Called earlier, are you Keenan, Keenan who called earlier? Are you not worried that Doug's entire point is people are tired of them and want to sell them?

• 34:17Speaker 03

  I don't want to own this car forever, I want to own this car.

• 34:20Doug DeMuro?

  The experience for a little while.

• 34:22Speaker 04

  I like your statement that there's a lot of cars on the list and whatever kind of comes across your desk first. Fair.

• 34:29Doug DeMuro?

  No, Kenan, for Christ's sake, it's time to move on. We've done BMWs, we've done BMWs, we're ready to move on. The, the community, the group is ready to move on. It's like when Sam bought another RA. Well, nobody cares anymore. We're ready to move on.

• 34:42Speaker 03

  Our friend Sam did buy a second RA. He had a V8 automatic roadster, got chirped about having a V8 and a Mayas V10.

• 34:49Doug DeMuro?

  V10 auto.

• 34:50Speaker 03

  Also an auto.

• 34:51Doug DeMuro?

  We're ready to move on. The group's ready to move on. If you got a Viper, you would, you would inject some life and some passion into the group.

• 34:57Speaker 03

  But is that my job? It's my car.

• 34:58Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but you don't think it'll inject some passion to your life?

• 35:01Speaker 03

  Do you think it'll inject passion into him?

• 35:02Doug DeMuro?

  You don't let his peer pressure you. You hear that V10?

• 35:07Speaker 03

  Have to go up over, what is it, 3250 and then you can go into second.

• 35:10Speaker 04

  No, if you switch, if you shift really early, you're good too.

• 35:13Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, the skip shift only comes on.

• 35:14Speaker 03

  We're just starting second.

• 35:15Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, usually. The point is.

• 35:18Speaker 03

  I do, I do want.

• 35:19Doug DeMuro?

  I don't know how this turned into what you saying you don't want a Viper. You do want a Viper.

• 35:22Speaker 03

  I do want a Viper. It's just there. Don't, I'm looking every day and there are just none around.

• 35:27Doug DeMuro?

  Well, keep looking. They're around. We sold, we had one on the site the other day. They, they, they show up, but I don't think it's reasonable.

• 35:33Speaker 03

  Keep looking, but I, I.

• 35:36Doug DeMuro?

  Don't listen to people except for me. Only listen to me.

• 35:41Speaker 03

  If you want to know what it's like being friends with Doug, that sums it up.

• 35:44Doug DeMuro?

  Forget everybody else. Okay, we're looking for a Viper.

• 35:48Speaker 03

  Not pinkieing you.

• 35:49Doug DeMuro?

  You got, I'm giving you four months. I'm giving you four months to find a Viper.

• 35:54Speaker 03

  If he finds something he likes better.

• 35:55Doug DeMuro?

  What, what would you like better for 30 grand?

• 35:57Speaker 03

  Or I might just say screw it and get a, get another Ferrari. I don't know.

• 36:00Doug DeMuro?

  My God, man, we are all over the place here and it is, and it is not going well. Okay.

• 36:04Speaker 03

  Can we move on?

• 36:04Doug DeMuro?

  I want to move on to two very quick, uh, my own talk cars. Very, very short, but I want to say them. First off, I haven't told you this and I don't think I've told you either. If I make it through May. If I make it through May without buying a car.

• 36:15Speaker 03

  May, it's like tomorrow.

• 36:17Doug DeMuro?

  Exactly. If I make it through May without buying a car.

• 36:19Speaker 04

  When these people are listening, isn't it?

• 36:20Doug DeMuro?

  I, yeah, exactly. I have gone the longest without buying a car since 2010.

• 36:26Speaker 04

  Are you including daily drivers?

• 36:27Doug DeMuro?

  Yes. Fifteen years. If I get through May without buying a car, it'll be fifteen years since I have gone this long without buying a car.

• 36:35Speaker 04

  What?

• 36:36Doug DeMuro?

  And the Sequoia was the last one I bought.

• 36:38Speaker 03

  Man, we need to, you have the Gilmore Girls Jeep.

• 36:42Doug DeMuro?

  Call us today.

• 36:44Speaker 03

  Sell it to him today and break it.

• 36:45Doug DeMuro?

  It would be something like that, that would convince me to buy a car.

• 36:48Speaker 03

  A tail design?

• 36:49Doug DeMuro?

  So off car.

• 36:50Speaker 03

  You wanna sell the column?

• 36:50Doug DeMuro?

  People are texting me all the time, why don't you get this? Why don't you get that? And I have to be like, listen, I have zero interest in what you're talking about. Zero. So all I gotta do is make it one more month, and then it's the longest in fifteen years I've gone without buying a car.

• 37:04Speaker 04

  Fifteen years ago, you were 22. You were in college. Wow.

• 37:08Doug DeMuro?

  That's right. I had just graduated from college. And when I graduated from college, I lived in Georgia and, and if private sales were not taxed. And so I, that, it was right then that I just started going crazy, because you could, could, and you could just buy, buy, buy private sale cars. And I did that. And I haven't gone, it's only been sixteen months or something. Right. But that's the longest I've gone. So I've said I wouldn't buy a car, and I have been true to it, and I definitely won't buy one over the summer. Okay. The other thing I want to say, last week we got a question that asked us, um, cars that are hated now that will be loved in the future. Because we often talk about how a lot of the cars that are beloved now were hated when they came out.

• 37:44Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 37:44Doug DeMuro?

  And it was a great question, and we wanted some time to think on it. And so we did think on it a little bit. We came up with a couple of answers. The new Supra and the Strada we mentioned last week as cars that we think are disliked now, but will be loved in the future. The Strada's the best one.

• 37:56Speaker 04

  It's already starting on the Supra, legitimately. Value's already up.

• 37:59Doug DeMuro?

  The Supra was never hated now, but there was always this, this, oh, it's not a real Supra, you know, and.

• 38:03Speaker 04

  People will love it. I agree.

• 38:05Doug DeMuro?

  The one that we came up with that was the best one, the one that's most worth talking about, is, uh, the new BMWs, the M2, the M3, and the M4. All three of those cars are, people are hating them, complaining, et cetera, et cetera. And in 20 years, they will all be incredibly desirable cars.

• 38:21Speaker 04

  When the new M2 came out, everybody was saying, it's, it's too big.

• 38:24Doug DeMuro?

  Too big, too ugly. Yeah.

• 38:27Speaker 04

  And then 20 years, first of all, that'll be a small car probably, and it will be desirable.

• 38:31Doug DeMuro?

  And the styling is often what makes these cars desirable.

• 38:35Speaker 04

  I do like how the M2 looks, to be clear.

• 38:37Doug DeMuro?

  People hate it. People think that the front end is too big, that it's weird. It's okay, fine. But I remember every other car that was ever hated, including people didn't love how the Supra looked. It was too soupy. It was too melty, et cetera, et cetera. Now, people are obsessed with all these things. The M2, the M3, and the M4 are gonna go down as the last six-cylinder manual BMWs. They're gonna. And this and the M3 with its big buck-toothed front end are going to be absolutely beloved icons of BMW in 25 years.

• 39:05Speaker 04

  Probably one of the last manual inline-six cars.

• 39:07Doug DeMuro?

  Yep.

• 39:07Speaker 04

  Cars.

• 39:08Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 39:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, cars, period.

• 39:09Doug DeMuro?

  Yep.

• 39:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. I agree with that. I've said that since they came out, and that's why I view them as special, so I've never had a problem with the way they look. I don't really care as long as it has six cylinders, rear-wheel drive, and a manual.

• 39:18Doug DeMuro?

  And it won't soon. And I wouldn't be surprised if these are the last. And one thing I've learned about cars that become valuable is it's often cars that were the last. And that mid-2000s era that we always talk about that gave us Curgiti and Ford GT and all these other cars, it was the last pre-screen, pre-hybrid, pre-automatic takeover. And we didn't know it at the time, but it was the last. And when you look at these cars, you can just tell. This is it. This is the end. It is ending here.

• 39:41Speaker 04

  Most M3s and M4s that I see are the competition models, which are all-wheel-drive tips.

• 39:45Doug DeMuro?

  Yep. So that's gonna make the sticks even more desirable. I guarantee you, I guarantee you, mark my words, in 25 years, the comps will be worth less.

• 39:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:56Doug DeMuro?

  It's like the soft top of the NLS defender.

• 39:57Speaker 03

  Trust me, you're not gonna need 25 years. That's the case. I really don't think.

• 40:01Doug DeMuro?

  I mean, look at F1 versus manual Ferraris, right? My buddy Paddy, who used to sell at Newport Beach, said they would get an allocation for a stick, call every customer on their 430 list, and they would all pass.

• 40:10Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 40:11Doug DeMuro?

  Because they were waiting for an F1. And now, what, sticks are what, 3X?

• 40:15Speaker 03

  Yep, buy the turntables. That's right.

• 40:17Speaker 04

  Okay, I do think one other one that Ken had mentioned that's worth noting, the Hummer EV.

• 40:22Speaker 04

  Maybe the only time they're gonna try to do something that outrageous, the Hummer H2 at the time was kinda hated now kinda.

• 40:30Doug DeMuro?

  You think the Hummer EV?

• 40:32Speaker 03

  I, I think.

• 40:33Doug DeMuro?

  I think the Hummer EV has a shot.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  I think there's an, people love the, the Hummer H2 right now. I think in kind of, it's kind of gone through this ironic thing and people like kind of, I see them occasionally.

• 40:43Doug DeMuro?

  The H2 has had a little bit of a comeback.

• 40:44Speaker 03

  It's had a, it's had a comeback.

• 40:45Doug DeMuro?

  And this kinda like over the top styling, which the Hummer EV is.

• 40:49Speaker 04

  I can't imagine that making more.

• 40:50Doug DeMuro?

  I just don't think they're gonna stop doing this. I think they're gonna keep doing cars like this.

• 40:53Speaker 04

  They haven't built that many.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  Maybe, but I think there's kind of an ironic of its timeness about the Hummer EV, which is so, describing it as a concept is so bizarre.

• 41:02Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 41:02Speaker 03

  Here's this thing that's supposed to be big and burly and just to say screw you.

• 41:06Doug DeMuro?

  It's a convertible also.

• 41:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:08Doug DeMuro?

  I just don't think it's ever really gonna become valuable. I could see it have a moment in 20 years.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  I'm not gonna say super valuable. I bet it will be, become beloved by a certain sect of people. And I, I think the Cybertruck honestly probably falls in that same category too. Being like really emblematic of right now.

• 41:21Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but I don't think that'll ever be loved.

• 41:25Speaker 03

  You'd be surprised.

• 41:26Doug DeMuro?

  No, right now is the Cybertruck's best.

• 41:28Speaker 03

  People love the Pinto. And then that was a terrible car.

• 41:31Doug DeMuro?

  There are cars that are emblematic of an era, do be, like the DeLorean and the Mustang.

• 41:37Speaker 03

  It's not good.

• 41:38Doug DeMuro?

  And some of them were good cars, some of them were bad cars, but often the Gremlin, do often become, like the Gremlin is almost synonymous with the 70s, right? Like the Cybertruck will.

• 41:46Speaker 04

  That's so true. It'll be a 2025.

• 41:48Doug DeMuro?

  To an extent synonymous with this era, whether or not it's loved later, it will certainly always have a, it will always be special for being a cultural moment beyond just a vehicle.

• 41:57Speaker 03

  Yes, and I think these cars, those cars fall into that category. Do I love it? No. Will I love it then? No. But, but some people will, I think.

• 42:06Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, okay, Filippo, give us your top cars and we gotta move on to market report.

• 42:08Speaker 04

  For the very first time, I've been pulled over.

• 42:10Doug DeMuro?

  Pulled over by the police. The California Patrol got Filippo.

• 42:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, I have never received a traffic ticket. I've never been in an accident. I've never been pulled over. And on Thursday, I was driving up to Orange County to go look at a slate. Was it Long Beach? Uh, yeah, but I drove through Orange County.

• 42:25Doug DeMuro?

  Okay.

• 42:25Speaker 04

  I was driving up to Long Beach, was in Orange County.

• 42:27Doug DeMuro?

  Course.

• 42:28Speaker 04

  On the five.

• 42:28Doug DeMuro?

  Of course.

• 42:29Speaker 04

  And saw the police officer on the right. I was going to speed a traffic and then the police officer slowed down, pulled behind me, pulled me over. That had never happened before. Now, all they actually cared about was the fact that the GTI, which is what I was driving, doesn't have a front plate and the tint is kind of aggressive, both because I bought it from somebody and haven't had it from, Washington State doesn't require a front plate.

• 42:49Doug DeMuro?

  Yes, it does. I've actually been-

• 42:50Speaker 04

  Really?

• 42:50Doug DeMuro?

  Yes, Washington State does require a front plate. I've been surprised that you haven't had a front license plate on that car.

• 42:55Speaker 04

  Nobody has drilled it. I don't have a front plate mount for it. It didn't come with the car and nobody had drilled it and I haven't gone around to it yet, is what it amounts to.

• 43:03Doug DeMuro?

  That's what they always say. Anyway, regardless, you didn't get a ticket.

• 43:05Speaker 04

  I did not get a ticket. He just said, I, I, obviously, and our producer was in the car with me, were incredibly polite. The police officer was incredibly polite.

• 43:13Doug DeMuro?

  It is surprising.

• 43:14Speaker 04

  I get why they don't like that.

• 43:15Doug DeMuro?

  Traffic stops are kind of high risk.

• 43:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:17Doug DeMuro?

  To be honest, like for officers, for the, for the people.

• 43:19Speaker 04

  Any officer will say the same thing.

• 43:21Doug DeMuro?

  You see on YouTube, constant crashes where the people hit the police cars because they won't move over a lane. It's just, it's incredibly frustrating. To pull over for no front plate, I've never heard of it. I have heard of people getting no front plate tickets, like when they're parked downtown at a, at a meter.

• 43:34Speaker 03

  Or I've also heard if you were doing something sketchy, then they couldn't quite get you on radar or something. Then they're like-

• 43:39Doug DeMuro?

  Or, or your car is like clearly lowered. There's clearly going to be some sort of commissions violation going on. They'll use front plate as an, as a, as a reason to pull you over and Instagram is filled. Well, tint, tint is a different thing. I think that tint is like totally legit reason to pull people over. I think it's wild that people have tint as dark as they do. I've never noticed on the GTI.

• 43:55Speaker 04

  Mine is not especially dark by like Southern California tint standards.

• 43:58Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah. Do you know that Illinois has a special license plate for window tint and allows you to get dark tint?

• 44:03Speaker 04

  If you need.

• 44:04Doug DeMuro?

  If, if, okay, so here's the deal.

• 44:05Speaker 04

  Most states have a medical exception.

• 44:06Doug DeMuro?

  Type this in. If you, Illinois window tint license plate. Type it in. If you have a certain, like an eye condition or a skin condition that's like very sensitive to, yeah, license plate, to, um, and then type images. And then it's this one. It ends in WT. For window tint. And it's black writing instead of red like on normal. And so if you have, if you have like a eye condition or a skin condition that requires you to like, be away from the sun, you get this license plate and you're exempted from the window tint laws.

• 44:36Speaker 03

  Well, it's a good to be away from the sun. It's a good thing you live in Illinois. You never see it.

• 44:41Speaker 04

  Most states do have an exemption for it. The only one that it's.

• 44:44Doug DeMuro?

  Some states you have a card. Yeah. There's one other state that lets you put a decal on your license. I don't remember it. Maybe it's Arizona. But anyway.

• 44:50Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 44:50Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, window tint license plate. So anyway, you didn't get a ticket and.

• 44:54Speaker 04

  I, I will get the front plate mounted. I'm planning on ordering it and getting it.

• 44:57Speaker 03

  Just get one of the things that screw into the.

• 44:59Doug DeMuro?

  Are you gonna?

• 44:59Speaker 03

  Cause I don't drill it into the.

• 45:01Doug DeMuro?

  Are you gonna de-tint? I, the first thing I do about my AMG or my E-Class wagon, non-AMG, uh, is I took it to Kevin and had them take the tint off. He was like, do you want some tint? I was like, no.

• 45:09Speaker 04

  I, I need to look at what the actual law is because I don't like breaking a law if I am. I'm not sure I am. Um, my wife and I have two different minds about this. I hate the tint. I don't like when there's incredibly dark tint.

• 45:21Doug DeMuro?

  It makes it so hard to see.

• 45:22Speaker 04

  So annoying at night. My wife had a good point. We drive to Arizona a lot and it is actually really nice that the car doesn't get incredibly hot driving on the eight.

• 45:29Doug DeMuro?

  And.

• 45:29Speaker 04

  Through Arizona.

• 45:30Doug DeMuro?

  And he would like to run the AC less to save money. So this is, this is a tough one for Filippo.

• 45:34Speaker 03

  You know.

• 45:35Doug DeMuro?

  Does he, does the money saving part of Filippo went out over the law abiding part of Filippo?

• 45:39Speaker 03

  I have your answer. There is just transit like non-tinted tint.

• 45:43Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:44Speaker 03

  Where it just does heat rejection.

• 45:45Doug DeMuro?

  Kevin will install for you. Kevin will, I should have done it on the Sequoia, but Kevin will install for you. It's UV.

• 45:51Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 45:52Doug DeMuro?

  And it's non, uh.

• 45:53Speaker 04

  It's not dark.

• 45:53Speaker 03

  It doesn't cost more than normal tint to be clear.

• 45:55Speaker 04

  I wouldn't, I wouldn't pay for tint.

• 45:57Speaker 03

  But if you're taking.

• 45:59Doug DeMuro?

  God.

• 46:01Speaker 03

  You can have everything. Just do what I'm telling you to do.

• 46:03Speaker 04

  No, it costs money, but I can still say that, I can only say that I've never been pulled over. I have now. But I still have not gotten a ticket.

• 46:10Doug DeMuro?

  But you also, you didn't get pulled over for a traffic thing, which I think is the, is the actual, when people say I've been pulled over, that's what they're referring to. But equipment violation is a different thing.

• 46:18Speaker 03

  I hadn't been stung by a bee till I was about 15 and I was proud of having said I've never stung by a bee. Then all of a sudden I got a ton of bee stings. So I hope you don't get like now a ton of tickets and that's what happens to you.

• 46:28Doug DeMuro?

  Okay. We got to move on to the market report, which is brought to you by the rhinoceros.

• 46:33Speaker 04

  The rhinoceros. It looks like it's wearing armor, but actually it's its skin.

• 46:38Doug DeMuro?

  Can I pitch a second sponsor for this?

• 46:39Speaker 04

  It's also brought to you by the Cars and Bids app.

• 46:41Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, the Cars and Bids app. Yes.

• 46:43Speaker 04

  Where you can browse, you can sell your car on Cars and Bids all through your.

• 46:47Doug DeMuro?

  My apologies to the rhinoceros community. I know you paid for this spot. Now we got, oh God, Filippo.

• 46:52Speaker 03

  Oh, you were close. It's the Cars and Bids Apo- Ros- Apo- Ros- Ros- Or whatever. I'm trying to mix them together.

• 46:58Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, I want to talk about two market report items that are good. The first, bring on the BMW.

• 47:04Speaker 03

  Ah, yes. So I have long been waiting for the BMW M760i to come down in price and it appears, oops, I forgot my.

• 47:15Speaker 03

  And it appears we're close. I always felt once they're under 40, they are a serious, serious bargain and we're close. We sold this 2017 M760i with 51,000 miles on it for 41.

• 47:26Doug DeMuro?

  Good. So for those who don't know, this is the previous generation 7 series. They do not do a V12 on the current body 7 series.

• 47:32Speaker 03

  That's correct.

• 47:33Doug DeMuro?

  So the previous generation 7 is the underline for the V12 and it's a V12 7 series. What's the power rating on this car?

• 47:38Speaker 04

  601 horsepower.

• 47:39Doug DeMuro?

  600.

• 47:40Speaker 04

  And more torque than you.

• 47:41Doug DeMuro?

  When I reviewed this car, you remember the key let you like move it? There was like a keep the pad. Now they don't all have that. But, um, so this car is 40 in the 40s. This is a normal key. Thank God, because it was insane.

• 47:52Speaker 03

  I'm sure when that.

• 47:53Doug DeMuro?

  By the way, go back to the results because.

• 47:58Doug DeMuro?

  But look, even in August, they were at 46, 45. This car is not old. This is, this is, this car, this one that sold for 46, seven months ago. That's a 25,000 mile car. Like people are gonna be like, oh, but they're unreliable.

• 48:11Speaker 03

  I don't.

• 48:12Doug DeMuro?

  This is 25,000 miles. How bad could it be?

• 48:14Speaker 03

  That V12 is relatively something. They've been building it for a very long time. And so I don't, I don't think that is what you have to worry about reliability. Other things maybe, because it is a.

• 48:24Doug DeMuro?

  Well, right. Look at the rear, the interior and the, like, pick on that picture. Like, there's a whole tablet back here.

• 48:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, that's.

• 48:31Speaker 04

  But what a car for 40 grand.

• 48:33Doug DeMuro?

  40 grand or 45 or whatever.

• 48:35Speaker 04

  It's this or like a base, base, base Highlander.

• 48:38Doug DeMuro?

  Why don't we have, and the subtlety of it, that V12 badge?

• 48:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, you.

• 48:42Speaker 04

  There's also gray.

• 48:43Doug DeMuro?

  You're talking to seven people with that badge, but when those people see you, there's such respect. I was driving, I told you this, I was driving on the freeway the other day. I think I was in my Ford GT or maybe the Countach and I saw one and I was like, oh, like I respected the person.

• 48:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I haven't.

• 48:55Doug DeMuro?

  Driving a $40,000 car.

• 48:56Speaker 03

  Right, as it turns out, I respect him even more. But it is quite a car, quite a value. This is a car we consider at some stage as like a daily, because man, that is just so.

• 49:07Doug DeMuro?

  Also, that body seven still looks brand new.

• 49:09Speaker 03

  It still looks great.

• 49:10Doug DeMuro?

  I mean, the new one is completely different looking, but this still looks like a modern design language car.

• 49:14Speaker 03

  People like this one more generally, and I totally do.

• 49:16Doug DeMuro?

  I don't.

• 49:17Speaker 03

  I like the way the new one looks, but I like this quite a bit.

• 49:19Doug DeMuro?

  I'm sorry. I love that the new seven looks.

• 49:21Speaker 03

  Oh, it looks, it's so.

• 49:22Speaker 04

  The new seven is so like wheels and the right color works.

• 49:25Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, there are some bad specs, but there are some good ones too. And the good ones, really, it looks like very like, I'm the boss. You know, I'm the boss. What are you, an S-Class?

• 49:34Speaker 04

  Seven series has gone to a Rolls Royce-esque vibe.

• 49:37Doug DeMuro?

  Yes.

• 49:38Speaker 03

  And I'm here for that.

• 49:39Doug DeMuro?

  But this is cool as hell. I cannot believe these are in the 40s.

• 49:41Speaker 03

  We're close.

• 49:42Speaker 04

  Crazy.

• 49:42Speaker 03

  We're close.

• 49:43Speaker 04

  They're in the 40s for sure.

• 49:44Speaker 03

  They're in the 30s.

• 49:44Speaker 04

  Almost in the 30s.

• 49:45Doug DeMuro?

  That is an unreal number for.

• 49:47Speaker 04

  What is the exterior color? It's blue, but what blue?

• 49:49Speaker 03

  Uh, this one.

• 49:50Speaker 04

  Fire your dad blue.

• 49:51Speaker 03

  Azure right blue, yeah. And great traditional BMW fashion, it's blue and they call it black.

• 49:56Doug DeMuro?

  All right, Filippo, tell us the most important cars and bids market piece of news.

• 50:01Speaker 04

  Yes, we are now auctioning cars from before 1981.

• 50:05Doug DeMuro?

  Before 1981. Previous to this, Cars and Bids was a marketplace only for cars from the modern era, 80s and up.

• 50:10Speaker 04

  And we've kind of, from a lot of feedback from users, because we do do a lot of surveys, we talk to a lot of folks, there was a lot of interest in older cars than that. And what they loved about Cars and Bids was not really that it was limited to 1981 and only, it was that we have like a modern interface. And the site that works and a really great process for selling your car, and they wanted to do that with some older cars. So we are really thinking about ourselves as the car auctioneer for the modern enthusiast.

• 50:35Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 50:36Speaker 04

  But with also some really cool, slightly older cars.

• 50:39Doug DeMuro?

  Right, we've rebranded the modern cars to the modern enthusiast. Now, I want to be honest with you, this was not my first choice. However, we did an enormous amount of.

• 50:49Speaker 04

  It's a lot of thought.

• 50:50Doug DeMuro?

  Research with our customers specifically. He said we came from feedback, this is not something we took lightly.

• 50:55Speaker 04

  Seventy, like 70% of survey respondents, the last time we surveyed our users, which we do on like an ongoing basis, said that they wanted to see us have older cars.

• 51:02Doug DeMuro?

  The response was shocking to me because I always felt that one of the cool things about the site was that we had only focused on this era. And that we were kind of the young, for the next generation, the younger folk. And what it turns out is that our users just wanted to see the older cars also.

• 51:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, they just love cars and they love talking about cars and they don't have that same decision.

• 51:20Speaker 03

  And to be honest, that's kind of the, that was kind of what I came to. Like, I've thought about this a lot too, because I was very anti this for a really long time. But I also have come to that kind of conclusion that like, we're really about like making sure everybody is included and not just keeping a gatekeep for one type of car.

• 51:35Doug DeMuro?

  Then that has been one of the benefits of the site. There was a wide variety.

• 51:40Speaker 03

  And I think this just broadens that variety even more. And again, I want a vintage driving experience and now I don't have to sell it somewhere else. I can sell it on the site.

• 51:48Speaker 04

  You're buying a Viper. You're buying a Viper.

• 51:52Speaker 03

  I'm seventy something now, if I'm, you know.

• 51:54Speaker 04

  And then you can sell it on the site. You're gonna be buying a Viper. When you all are watching a little listen, there'll be a couple, at least three cars live, maybe four, maybe more. Cars live when you're watching this.

• 52:04Doug DeMuro?

  That are older.

• 52:04Speaker 04

  That are older, including a C2 Corvette that's been, that's been fully restomodded. An old Cougar, a Bronco, which has also been really nicely restored. And then there's a lot of other cool cars coming. And if you have like a really cool car from before 1991, submit it to us. We're now the place. We're ready.

• 52:21Speaker 03

  The restomod one is fascinating because that is, that's the, it's a vintage car, but with modern stuff. And that really gets me going.

• 52:29Doug DeMuro?

  And a C8 Corvette color. This is a big change for Cars and Bids. This was something that we had kind of held almost secret about the business. And obviously, we want to expand and so volume is a goal, but that wasn't, that wasn't really the impetus for this. I was really truly surprised at how many people were asking for this. Considering that I always felt that one of the things about the site was that we were kind of these newer cars. And so, I'm a, I'm really, really a believer in, and since I've launched this business, I've really been a believer in, even if I don't think it's the right thing to do, if it's what the company wants, the employees, or if it's what the users want, then I'm not right about everything. And this is, this is one of those things. So this is, I'm not saying I don't want to do it. I'm excited to have the old cars on the site. I think it'll be cool.

• 53:12Doug DeMuro?

  But I just wasn't, it wasn't something that was on my radar until we did this surveying and continued to find out over and over from repeated surveying that people were into this. And so we're doing it.

• 53:22Speaker 03

  So you're doing it for the people.

• 53:24Doug DeMuro?

  For the people, for the folks.

• 53:25Speaker 04

  It turns out when you build a really great experience and platform, then people want to use it. And it felt wrong to like gatekeep who could use it when we're also into those cars.

• 53:35Doug DeMuro?

  The platform experience and usability is. A really positive reason that a lot of people will use this business.

• 53:42Speaker 03

  And half tough to our product team for building something really, really great and our design team for making it look very nice, too.

• 53:48Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, we got to move on to questions.

• 53:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:51Doug DeMuro?

  Questions are sponsored by the giraffe. They're tall and they can eat stuff that other animals can't eat.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  You mean the Cars and Bids giraffe?

• 53:58Doug DeMuro?

  The Cars and Bids giraffe. No, Fleep, but tell us about the app.

• 54:02Speaker 04

  But I'm not wearing my giraffe shirt.

• 54:03Doug DeMuro?

  Can you bid on the app?

• 54:04Speaker 03

  You don't, well, you don't.

• 54:05Speaker 04

  Yes, you can bid on the app. You can also sell, you can sell your car on the app.

• 54:08Doug DeMuro?

  Sell your car on the app?

• 54:09Speaker 04

  There's so many things you can do.

• 54:10Speaker 03

  Set up alerts, community.

• 54:11Doug DeMuro?

  If you're a giraffe, can you sell your car on the app? How good are you at using your thumbs? Let me tell you, I'm going to tell you something that's going to blow your mind, but this is true. The only time I've ever seen a giraffe in the wild, I was in an airplane. I swear to God. Okay. First question.

• 54:25Speaker 03

  So much more to unpack there. We're going to keep going.

• 54:27Doug DeMuro?

  The only time I've ever seen a giraffe in the wild, that was in an airplane. All right.

• 54:31Speaker 03

  Where were you?

• 54:32Doug DeMuro?

  I was in Africa.

• 54:32Speaker 04

  Was the airplane supposed to be that low?

• 54:34Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, the airplane, we were landing on a grass runway, okay? And when you land on a grass runway in the bush, you buzz the runway once to make sure there's no animals on it. I swear to God, that's true.

• 54:43Speaker 03

  Yep, that's true.

• 54:44Doug DeMuro?

  And so after doing the runway buzz, I saw out the window a giraffe and I was like, great, we're going to go on safari. We're going to see 100 of these giraffes. It's going to be awesome. We landed, we went on the safari, we saw every other animal, didn't see a giraffe, took off, left only the giraffe. The only giraffe I saw was from the airplane.

• 54:58Speaker 03

  How long were you on safari for?

• 54:59Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, just a day. Okay.

• 55:00Speaker 03

  Well, that's why they're everywhere.

• 55:02Speaker 04

  But he saw the giraffe.

• 55:03Doug DeMuro?

  I saw zebras. I saw zebras. By the way, the zebra is not the sponsor of this segment. Okay.

• 55:08Speaker 03

  No.

• 55:08Doug DeMuro?

  Moving on to questions. And there were some great questions this week, so we have to cover them, starting with the first question from Step Side Tundra. Will Slate succeed? The enthusiast community has long called for a Bear Bun's truck, but no consumer will actually buy a vehicle with no infotainment and crank windows. Uh, but will, will consumers actually buy a vehicle with no infotainment and crank windows? Depending on your answer, what are some other things that car enthusiasts plead for that would be a home run slash would never actually sell? We already covered the first half of this question, will Slate succeed, and our thoughts on it earlier. The second part of the question, I think, is very interesting. What other things that car enthusiasts plead for, uh, would be a home run? None. You know, I, there's that short that's going around where I talk about how car enthusiasts, people actually want a 4Runner instead of a 70 Series. The comments are vicious. You don't get what makes a 70 Series. You're wrong. And I looked at a lot of the Instagram profiles, the people who are saying that.

• 55:52Doug DeMuro?

  You know what they're all driving? Third gen 4Runners, 100 series Land Cruisers with 300,000 miles. These guys are not actually buying new cars for $58,000 or whatever we computed that the 70 series would cost if it came here.

• 56:03Speaker 04

  Here's what happens when you're actually in the market for a new car. You're like, okay, this is what I want. Oh, but then every once in a while I'll have to take my, my mother-in-law to the airport and she'll be really annoyed by the noise of this car. She'll be really annoyed by whatever. Oh, let me get 400.

• 56:19Doug DeMuro?

  Right. When you're 23 and you're only, the only thing you're looking for in a car is that it can off-road in the North Georgia mountains. Yeah, you want a 70 series. That's what you think you want. But the days when you actually are an adult, spending 60,000 United States dollars on an automobile. It's a very, by the time you get to that point in your adulthood, it's a very different conversation. And so a lot of the stuff that enthusiasts plead for, I think virtually always wouldn't sell. I've worked at automakers. I've worked at car dealers and I see what actually, I've seen what actually sells. And it's not what the enthusiasts claim that they, oh, we'll buy, buy one new.

• 56:54Speaker 04

  I'll give a counter.

• 56:55Doug DeMuro?

  No, you don't.

• 56:55Speaker 04

  I'll give a counterpoint. Enthusiasts have long-wanted manual transmissions in more cars. There is plenty of evidence that when automakers offer it and dealers stock it, because in the US it's a very dealer-centric model. They, they sell the, the take rate on manual WRXs, the take rate on manual minis, the take rate on manual other cars that are offered that is quite high. So there is a market for things that enthusiasts want.

• 57:18Doug DeMuro?

  I think that, I think that a transmission is different from an entire vehicle at a certain price.

• 57:22Speaker 04

  And also I do want a brown manual diesel.

• 57:24Doug DeMuro?

  I think that colors, colors are actually a good example of this. Enthusiasts say they want weird colors. Most people don't buy them. Some do. It's not that hard to make colors and stock a couple of them. And so I think it is reasonable to listen to enthusiasts there. Transmission, I think, is, is also true on certain vehicles.

• 57:39Speaker 04

  Certain vehicles.

• 57:40Doug DeMuro?

  Federalizing a 70 series Land Cruiser or a Suzuki Jimny or a whatever to try to sell it to the nine people who claim they would buy one, but really will only buy one when it's used in 18 years.

• 57:50Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 57:50Doug DeMuro?

  That's not a winning proposition. No matter how much those people say that it is. On that subject, our next question, don't look at the question.

• 57:57Speaker 04

  I'm gonna close my computer.

• 57:59Doug DeMuro?

  Just every week.

• 58:00Speaker 04

  I like knowing.

• 58:01Doug DeMuro?

  Next question from Indican. This is a great one. If Lamborghini were to develop a modernized reinterpretation of the LM002, pull that up, how successful do you think it could be in today's market? I have to be honest with you. When Lamborghini came out with the Urus, which was in 2018, 2017, 18, I thought they were making a big mistake by not coming out with an off-roader. Because I was looking at the market at the time and what I saw was the most successful, expensive SUVs were the G-Wagon, the Raptor, and other similar like off-roady kind of things were selling well. The 400 TRD Pros were at huge money at that time. Land Cruisers had sold out, you know, as the market was coming to an end. And I thought, why doesn't Lamborghini, they already own the fastest sports cars. Why don't they own the most capable trucks?

• 58:47Doug DeMuro?

  But they didn't do that and the Urus was a big success. Has been a big success, much more than I expected it would be, especially considering I don't think it's the most attractive car. However, I do think that if they came out with a G-Wagon type rival, a truck off-road performance, that would also be successful, I suspect.

• 59:05Speaker 04

  Agreed.

• 59:05Doug DeMuro?

  I think if you sold that car up against G-Wagon, up against those vehicles, it would be, you look at the market for those cars and it's pretty hot.

• 59:13Speaker 03

  So yet another manufacturer that should be building a G-Wagon that isn't currently.

• 59:17Doug DeMuro?

  Probably. I don't think they were wrong to build the Urus, but I do question why there isn't an Urus Storato or even another product that is completely separate, that is a specific off-road type vehicle that would allow people in Orange County who are rich but want to seem like they can have capability to have that. I mean, look at the Range Rover, right? It's another example of that.

• 59:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:38Doug DeMuro?

  Incredible capabilities. No one has ever used it, but they want that appearance.

• 59:42Speaker 04

  Yep, 100% agreed.

• 59:43Doug DeMuro?

  Why don't they do that?

• 59:44Speaker 04

  I don't think they know how. Like, when was the last time they, first of all, the L-2. Maybe not the best vehicle, period.

• 59:51Doug DeMuro?

  They know how. They go to the G-Wagon and they just do what that, what that does.

• 59:54Speaker 04

  None of their engineers have ever engineered an off-road suspension.

• 59:57Doug DeMuro?

  It's all suspension with travel.

• 59:58Speaker 03

  It's because, yeah, I think it's, I think it's because Volkswagen themselves don't do it.

• 1:00:02Doug DeMuro?

  There would be, there would not be a really great, um, economies of scale in the Volkswagen product portfolio. There is no other brand. Porsche could probably get away with it. A G-Wagon competitor that was off-roady. Porsche's got some off-road race history and all that. Other than that, I mean Audi can't sell a car like this.

• 1:00:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, with the 959.

• 1:00:22Doug DeMuro?

  Well, and Cayenne's. There have been, there have been successful off-roader Cayenne type stuff. Don't forget the Trans-Siberia Rally.

• 1:00:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, Trans-Siberia.

• 1:00:28Doug DeMuro?

  Which they won.

• 1:00:29Speaker 03

  Trans-Siberia, that's true. I, I would love that. And again, as far, as far as taking it as close to the G-Wagon as any manufacturer could, I mean, cause again, I could see Lamborghini building something very square, very macho, very like, very G-Wagon-ish, and it would make perfect sense.

• 1:00:44Doug DeMuro?

  They would get away with it, and I think they would sell it. I really legit think they could, Lambo made a G-Wagon, but for $350, people would buy it.

• 1:00:50Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:00:51Doug DeMuro?

  People would go crazy buying that, and I really legit think they should.

• 1:00:55Speaker 03

  Well, Lamborghini, listen to us. Build a G-Wagon.

• 1:00:57Speaker 04

  It doesn't even need to be good off-road.

• 1:00:59Doug DeMuro?

  No, it doesn't.

• 1:01:00Speaker 03

  Just throw it out there. It just needs to look like it would be.

• 1:01:01Doug DeMuro?

  Just look like it's capable enough. No one's ever gonna take it.

• 1:01:04Speaker 03

  Which, let's be honest, that's how Lamborghinis have always been. The Countach looks like performance, but it's just okay.

• 1:01:08Doug DeMuro?

  You know what? On the subject of that.

• 1:01:10Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 1:01:10Doug DeMuro?

  Our next question from SJS 2003. Rank every V12 Lamborghini flagship supercar. Ah, ranking.

• 1:01:20Speaker 03

  Wait, so you're just saying, just the V12 line?

• 1:01:22Doug DeMuro?

  There are not many. It's, this should be easy. Mira, Countach, Diablo, Mercy, Aventador, uh, what's the new one called?

• 1:01:29Speaker 03

  Haven't we done this?

• 1:01:31Doug DeMuro?

  What is the new one called?

• 1:01:31Speaker 03

  Uh.

• 1:01:32Speaker 04

  Revolto.

• 1:01:33Doug DeMuro?

  Revolto, I think.

• 1:01:34Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:01:35Doug DeMuro?

  We have done it amongst ourselves.

• 1:01:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:38Doug DeMuro?

  But now we're gonna do it on cam. Alright, I will take notes.

• 1:01:41Speaker 03

  So at the very bottom?

• 1:01:43Doug DeMuro?

  What? What do you put at the very bottom? It's harder than you think.

• 1:01:47Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:01:47Doug DeMuro?

  You think Aventador.

• 1:01:49Speaker 03

  Hmm, no.

• 1:01:50Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:01:50Doug DeMuro?

  It's not Revolto. I totally disagree.

• 1:01:54Speaker 04

  This is Kenan hating new things.

• 1:01:55Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan hates new things. This is, this is a tough part of Kenan that we don't.

• 1:01:58Speaker 03

  Well, no enthusiasts hate new things.

• 1:02:00Doug DeMuro?

  The Revuelto is a tremendously exciting car.

• 1:02:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's a auto tip, battery power.

• 1:02:05Doug DeMuro?

  But, but, but, my argument against that would be the Aventador was also an auto tip car. It was a worse tip. It was a slower car. They made 10 billion of them. Like, why, why is the, why is the Revuelto worse than the Aventador?

• 1:02:17Speaker 03

  Because it doesn't have a hybrid. It's not cheating.

• 1:02:19Doug DeMuro?

  It's a thousand horsepower.

• 1:02:21Speaker 03

  It's an NAV12.

• 1:02:22Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah, but dude.

• 1:02:23Speaker 03

  By itself, with no batteries. It's like, it's like, it's the LaFerrari argument. I would rather have, I'd rather have the SP3 Daytona because it has no hybrid assist.

• 1:02:34Doug DeMuro?

  The Revuelto's V12 on its own has 814 horsepower. Before you get to the hybrid stuff.

• 1:02:39Speaker 03

  But then it cheats.

• 1:02:40Doug DeMuro?

  814 naturally aspirated 6.5 liter V12 horsepower, okay?

• 1:02:44Speaker 03

  But then it cheats.

• 1:02:45Doug DeMuro?

  How does it cheat? Try to take out the hybrid stuff. You still got an 814 horsepower.

• 1:02:49Speaker 03

  Take off the hybrid stuff because you can do that.

• 1:02:51Doug DeMuro?

  They're gonna eventually. You're missing my point.

• 1:02:53Speaker 03

  Well, they're gonna eventually. They're gonna go back to the Aventador.

• 1:02:55Doug DeMuro?

  So, so they added on the hybrid stuff to give it even more power, even without it?

• 1:02:58Speaker 03

  I'm putting it last.

• 1:02:59Doug DeMuro?

  I, I don't understand. Your argument though is that it doesn't have an NAV12, which it does.

• 1:03:02Speaker 03

  No, I said non-hybrid, NA, non-hybrid V12, which is what I like.

• 1:03:06Doug DeMuro?

  That's like tacking on extra.

• 1:03:08Speaker 03

  No, that's not. It's the SF90 versus the LaFerrari. Which would you rather have and why?

• 1:03:13Doug DeMuro?

  Uh, is neither an option.

• 1:03:17Speaker 03

  Or not the SF90.

• 1:03:18Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, the SP3.

• 1:03:18Speaker 03

  SP3, Daytona.

• 1:03:19Doug DeMuro?

  SP3. You're, because it looks better.

• 1:03:23Speaker 03

  I think the Aventador looks better. It's not rare, yet.

• 1:03:26Doug DeMuro?

  You don't think the Revuelto looks better than the Aventador?

• 1:03:28Speaker 03

  I don't.

• 1:03:29Doug DeMuro?

  I totally disagree.

• 1:03:30Speaker 03

  I, well, I think you're very wrong.

• 1:03:31Speaker 04

  You're saying Aventador last, you're saying Revuelto last.

• 1:03:34Speaker 03

  Yes. The next one after that is gonna be Aventador and next enough that will be Revuelto for you.

• 1:03:39Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, so yeah, so, so my last is Aventador. My second to last.

• 1:03:43Speaker 03

  Is Revuelto.

• 1:03:44Doug DeMuro?

  Is Revuelto.

• 1:03:46Speaker 03

  And now it gets hard.

• 1:03:47Doug DeMuro?

  It gets a little hard, but not that hard because next, next to last is Diablo.

• 1:03:51Speaker 03

  Diablo, yeah.

• 1:03:52Doug DeMuro?

  It just has to be.

• 1:03:53Speaker 03

  Unfortunately.

• 1:03:53Doug DeMuro?

  I, I, listen, I love the Diablo.

• 1:03:56Speaker 04

  You've convinced one of your friends to get rid of his Murcielago, to get a Diablo.

• 1:04:00Doug DeMuro?

  Well, but, but, I, yes, but he's got the worst Murcielago, right? It's a tip, it's a tip convertible. I love that car. And by the way, he's had several great years with it and, and the worst Mercy is still one of the great, great sports cars ever.

• 1:04:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. The Diablo.

• 1:04:12Doug DeMuro?

  The Diablo.

• 1:04:13Speaker 03

  Well, the Diablo, may I?

• 1:04:15Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:15Speaker 03

  The Diablo is a transitionary car between the icon that was the Countach and the

• 1:04:20Doug DeMuro?

  Quality automobile.

• 1:04:23Speaker 03

  And so, and you have this weird transition. It started out as rear-wheel drive, which are my favorite cars. Then you had the SV. Then it became all-wheel drive and then it got bigger and like, and Audi tried to refine it.

• 1:04:31Doug DeMuro?

  There are versions of the Diablo that I would actually put really high on this list.

• 1:04:35Speaker 03

  SV.

• 1:04:36Doug DeMuro?

  The SV, the SE30 and the 60, I would put much higher, but taken as a whole, the early Diablo's were not well-built. The all-wheel-drive Diablo's are nice cars, but

• 1:04:46Speaker 03

  But they're not.

• 1:04:47Doug DeMuro?

  They're not. I don't see why the Diablo in any way is better than the Countach, to be perfectly honest. It's not more exciting. It's faster, but both cars are slow. It certainly doesn't look as iconic.

• 1:04:57Speaker 03

  Agreed with that.

• 1:04:58Doug DeMuro?

  And it's probably not even better built since they went, Lamborghini went through three different owners during the Diablo's production run.

• 1:05:05Speaker 03

  Right. Like, it's a little better built, but only by chance.

• 1:05:10Speaker 03

  So I, but I agree, as much as I also love it, that was the Lamborghini kind of my childhood. It's like, I agree.

• 1:05:15Doug DeMuro?

  If I could put it, SE30 might be my number one overall car on this list, but taken as a whole, the Diablo is our next worst.

• 1:05:24Speaker 03

  Yes. Yes. In aggregate, I agree.

• 1:05:26Doug DeMuro?

  Then Mercy. So the question is?

• 1:05:27Speaker 03

  Then Mercy. Is it, which is better?

• 1:05:30Doug DeMuro?

  Countach or Mura? And?

• 1:05:31Speaker 03

  I know what I would argue.

• 1:05:32Doug DeMuro?

  Countach, no question.

• 1:05:33Speaker 03

  Yep. Really? Countach is better. Canon. Because the, the Mura is, again, is gorgeous and it is, and it was revolutionary in its time, but it is a tremendously flawed vehicle. Because the gearbox and the engine share the same oil.

• 1:05:48Doug DeMuro?

  Only on the early cars and everybody who's driven one has rectified.

• 1:05:51Speaker 03

  They are all fire problems. 100% fire rate risk. They're just, they're just, and they're also just like, the Lamborghini Countach defined what fast cars looked like for a generation, not just Lamborghini's.

• 1:06:07Doug DeMuro?

  Kind of still.

• 1:06:08Speaker 03

  And still to this day, it does define what Lamborghini's look like.

• 1:06:10Doug DeMuro?

  And Gandini regretted the design of the Mura, and I think that's one of the most interesting aspects of the whole thing. Gandini designed the Mura to look like a front-engine car because that's all that existed at the time. And even though the engineering was revolutionary with this mid-engine transfer, I mean, it was a very special thing. The, the front engine design of the car, it's a beautiful car, but it didn't set the standard like the Countach did with the wedge shape exotic. When you think of a supercar, you think of either a Countach or a car that the Countach inspired, period, without question.

• 1:06:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:42Doug DeMuro?

  And so I think the Countach is, and also the Countach is simply a better car to use. I've driven a Mura, it is quite compromised and maybe it's just me, but when I was driving the Mura, I was worried about fire the entire time.

• 1:06:57Speaker 03

  Didn't you, what was it you were looking at?

• 1:06:59Doug DeMuro?

  I was looking, I was filming the Mura, I'll never forget this. I was filming the Mura, I found the only quiet place where no one would bother me in the entire San Francisco Bay area to film the Mura. And I was filming the Mura and I had like five hours alone with this, very special. And I looked, I was, I was outside the car shooting the headlights and I looked inside and it was on fire. And I was like, oh my God. And I was, this is Derek Tam Scott's Mura, okay? And I was like, oh my God. And so I, I absolutely lose it. And I'm like, it's on fire, well my God, this is it, this is it, the Mura's gonna burn down. And I, and I, as fast as I can, like throw down my equipment, run around inside the car and I, it was the dome light reflecting off the back glass, but that's the level of fear that you have.

• 1:07:40Doug DeMuro?

  That's what you, what you have when you're in a Mura.

• 1:07:43Speaker 03

  And I mean, you and I have both witnessed them catch on fire before, like in person at the same event.

• 1:07:48Doug DeMuro?

  True, I forgot about that.

• 1:07:49Speaker 03

  So like.

• 1:07:49Doug DeMuro?

  I only have slight Mura experience and fire was involved at all.

• 1:07:53Speaker 04

  How much is a Mura?

• 1:07:54Doug DeMuro?

  Mures are like three million. Now keep in mind also, there's only a thousand Mures, there's 2,000 Countaches, there's 3,000 Yamas, 4,000 Mercys. So that the rarer, it got rarest, less rare, et cetera. That's another special thing about the Countach. It's half as common as a Mercy, it's much rarer than a Diablo.

• 1:08:08Speaker 03

  Right, and yeah, so I think we're, so other than the more, the most recent Lamborghinis, we're in perfect agreement on the rest.

• 1:08:15Doug DeMuro?

  And by the way, hats hit to Joe Sackey, I would choose a downdraft.

• 1:08:19Speaker 03

  And brag to me.

• 1:08:21Doug DeMuro?

  I'd brag to the one person in my life who knows.

• 1:08:23Speaker 03

  I know, but unfortunately I got just a side draft and so, you know, we'll take it.

• 1:08:26Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, three more questions, we'll do them very short. First question from R63S, not addressed to any of us, but it just says, "You're pushing 40 and you're a multimillionaire now, are you thinking of retiring in the near future?" I imagine this one's for you.

• 1:08:37Speaker 03

  For you, yeah.

• 1:08:38Doug DeMuro?

  Filippo, your thoughts?

• 1:08:40Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:08:40Doug DeMuro?

  I'm never gonna retire. This is the greatest job, the only job I've ever had and the greatest job I've ever had. And I'm not one of those retire early people. I truly love doing this. There are things about it that are a little annoying, but like, not many. And I think a lot of people, it's their sole goal in life to retire as quickly as possible. And when you have a job that you truly love, you don't work a day in your life. But I do actually legit feel like that. Like, a lot of people go to bed on Sunday night like anxious and dreading the work week. And I am, that is not my situation at all. I go to bed on Sunday night like excited to shoot Monday morning and to see my friends here at the office. And I, it is, retiring is not on my mind. Two more questions. From xray48, Doug, we know how you feel about press launches.

• 1:09:23Doug DeMuro?

  If you were in charge at a manufacturer, what would be your method of unveiling a new model and letting the press review or test it? A press launch, cuz it's incredibly effective. You gotta understand, the journalists, with the exception of a few of us, the journalists do not make a lot of money and do not really ever get luxury experiences or treated specially, right? They go back home to suburban Chicago and they're just a normal guy. But on a press launch, they're flown out first class by Jeep to review the Wagoneer S at the finest hotel in North Idaho. And, and when they walk in after having been driven in a grand Wagoneer limo from the airport, the, the person at the hotel says, "Oh, hello, Mr. Stevenson. We've been waiting for you." I don't know what their names are.

• 1:10:05Doug DeMuro?

  I don't wanna say anybody specifically, but this is true of every journalist I've ever known. And then they go up to their nice hotel and then they're whisked down to a fine dinner. And the PR people are their best friends. "Oh, oh, it's Jim. Oh, hey, Jim. Nice to see you." The PR people don't give a about you. But this experience is so powerful for the journalists. They feel so special. And so when they go home and they remember that the Wagoneer S was a bad car that is radically overpriced, they think to themselves, "That is all true, but they, I felt so good when I was there." And so they write a puff piece. And that is exactly how I would reveal cars if I worked for the automaker.

• 1:10:43Speaker 04

  It's a good strategy.

• 1:10:45Doug DeMuro?

  There's a reason it works.

• 1:10:47Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:10:48Speaker 00

  At Edward Jones, we believe rich is more than caring about the latest and greatest. It's also taking care of what gives your life meaning. That's why your dedicated financial advisor meets you where you are with personalized financial strategies that help protect what matters so you can preserve your progress while creating a path forward. The key to being rich is knowing what counts. Let's find your rich together. Edward Jones. Member SIPC.

• 1:11:19Doug DeMuro?

  Am I wrong?

• 1:11:20Speaker 04

  Nope. Not at all. And also, you're guaranteeing coverage. You are literally paying to make sure that people are going to write about it.

• 1:11:28Doug DeMuro?

  It's probably cheaper than any form of advertising you could do. You know, people see an advertisement and they're either skeptical or not paying attention. But paying to fly Jim first class from Chicago to Seattle to do this press event? What does that cost per journalist? 12 grand? It's nothing when you compare it to... And then he writes an article in The Tribune or on carandriver.com. I'm not scapegoating any journalist publication. They're all this bad.

• 1:11:55Doug DeMuro?

  But like, that's better than any advertising... That shows up in SEO better than any advertising you could possibly do.

• 1:12:00Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:12:01Doug DeMuro?

  Last question. This comes from 09CamryXLE. Doug, in your recent Navigator video, you said that it feels more luxurious because they moved almost all the controls to the screen. That's not entirely what I said, but we'll move on. It feels luxurious because it has a massive screen that does everything. Do you actually believe that removing buttons is more luxurious? Or do you say that because it's what you think potential buyers want to hear? I say that because it's what I think potential buyers want to hear. Because ultimately, those are the people buying the car. You know, I reviewed that car and I looked at all the comments and every comment was like, "The screens suck. I never want to get rid of my screens. I never want to get rid of my buttons. I hate everything about screens. These people are so stupid." And none of those people are Navigator buyers. Time and time again, what luxury car buyers have told us is they want screens.

• 1:12:46Doug DeMuro?

  They're used to using their phone. They're used to using their iPad. They use their TV with a joystick remote. Screens make sense to them. It's what they understand.

• 1:12:54Doug DeMuro?

  Stand and all these people who are like, I want these things and buttons have never been in a modern car to understand the level of equipment that modern cars have could never be put in in buttons. You would have a 747 control panel with stuff everywhere around you. Screens are what these buyers want. So the reason that I say that is P, do you, do you think that's what buyers want to hear? Yeah, that's who I'm reviewing the car for. I'm reviewing the car not so that YouTube commenters can all talk amongst themselves and with me about how much we wish they still had buttons. I'm reviewing it for people who are actually trying to buy the car and those people want screens.

• 1:13:32Doug DeMuro?

  No matter how much YouTube commenters who are driving a Ford Crown Victoria with mismatched wheels want to claim that screens are the death of the world. The, the world is going towards screens.

• 1:13:44Speaker 04

  Fundamentally, people have taken to understand screens equals features equals luxury.

• 1:13:50Doug DeMuro?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:51Speaker 04

  And that is the perception.

• 1:13:52Doug DeMuro?

  And it's generally true because the screens, the automakers can put in more and more and more equipment fairly inexpensively. With that said, I want to be clear. I think there are great car. I mean, all my, none of my cars have screens in them. Like my, my daily, my, my sports cars, I wouldn't, when I get a sports car, I don't even consider one with a screen in it. It's never even on my mind, but that there's a place for that stuff and there's a place for not that stuff. In a navigator review, a navigator is not a place for millions of buttons. You don't want, these are not people who care that, that buttons have been replaced by screens. They understand screens. They want to use screens.

• 1:14:28Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:14:28Doug DeMuro?

  And I think it's so laughable. It's so intellectually dishonest in the comments of this video when people say screens are the worst, buttons are the best. You're not the buyer. You don't even, even understand the buyer. And I, I understand the buyer a little bit more. And you know who understands the buyer best? Lincoln, the multi-billion dollar car company that has invested hundreds of millions of dollars into research and development for the car.

• 1:14:49Speaker 04

  I mean, sometimes some, some brands have gotten it wrong.

• 1:14:52Doug DeMuro?

  The BMW XM.

• 1:14:53Speaker 04

  Yeah. I agree with you. People want screens because that's high tech and that feels fancy right now.

• 1:15:00Doug DeMuro?

  And they understand them and honestly also they want all these features. What I think a lot of these people don't understand who complain is they don't, they're like, I don't need any of that stuff.

• 1:15:09Speaker 04

  Not they want.

• 1:15:09Doug DeMuro?

  Well, the buyers of a $125,000 SUV who are comparing it against nine other very similar SUVs at that price point. They want all that stuff. There's not like a thing like, oh, I wish this didn't have anything and just had buttons. There's none of that. These people aren't looking for the slate truck.

• 1:15:25Speaker 04

  Also, the screens are cool.

• 1:15:27Doug DeMuro?

  The Lincoln screens are pretty cool.

• 1:15:29Speaker 04

  They really are.

• 1:15:29Speaker 03

  I have to give it to you. They are pretty.

• 1:15:31Doug DeMuro?

  They work well, like that giant screen.

• 1:15:33Speaker 04

  You can't put CarPlay where you want it in my mind, but.

• 1:15:35Doug DeMuro?

  I disagree. I think CarPlay being here and then the one in front of you gives you the weather, man.

• 1:15:39Speaker 04

  But you can't have.

• 1:15:40Speaker 03

  It's hard to look at it and go, oh yeah, it is sunny.

• 1:15:46Doug DeMuro?

  It doesn't just give you the current weather. It gives you the weather for the next three hours. So take that.

• 1:15:51Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 1:15:51Speaker 04

  Do you see clouds? Doesn't matter.

• 1:15:53Speaker 03

  Do you see clouds? They're gonna be gone soon.

• 1:15:57Doug DeMuro?

  No, legitimately, no. I, this really always grinds my gears because so many car enthusiasts think they know what the people want and have no concept of what people want in certain segments.

• 1:16:05Speaker 03

  What they know is what they want and think that everybody also wants that when the reality of it is, it's just not the case. And I am very guilty of myself. Not always. I'm very good at this.

• 1:16:15Doug DeMuro?

  Perfectly fine to be all buttons and notes.

• 1:16:17Speaker 04

  Doesn't have a screen.

• 1:16:19Speaker 03

  It does. The integration of it actually makes a lot of sense when you look at it in modern context. They knew what they were doing.

• 1:16:24Speaker 04

  I will say, I can understand some of the sentiment. Like if you've helped your parents or your in-laws or whatever, try to use the modern technology, you hear their complaints. But that, they still wanted that when they bought the car.

• 1:16:37Doug DeMuro?

  The problem though, the problem with that argument.

• 1:16:39Speaker 04

  And actually purchase.

• 1:16:40Doug DeMuro?

  I agree with that. That's true. They still want those features.

• 1:16:43Speaker 04

  They still want it.

• 1:16:43Doug DeMuro?

  So what do you do?

• 1:16:44Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:16:44Doug DeMuro?

  The other problem with that argument is, and I think something that's getting lost on people who make that argument is the people who are buying these cars, the navigators, they're not 85 anymore. And by the way, current 85 year olds worked on computers when they were in offices. But also a lot of people buying navigators, my guess is the average buyer age is somewhere in the 40 to 60 range, 50, late mid 50s. Those people are very used to use, iPhone came out 20 years ago. Those people were in their 30s. They're not, they're not Luddites. They know how to use this stuff. They're not sitting there being like, how do I? And there is some confusion to it and it, there's a learning curve to it, but if you want that level of equipment.

• 1:17:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:17:16Doug DeMuro?

  That's gonna happen.

• 1:17:16Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:17:18Speaker 03

  And thank you for getting off of your soapbox.

• 1:17:20Doug DeMuro?

  I'm not wrong, though.

• 1:17:21Speaker 04

  You're not.

• 1:17:21Doug DeMuro?

  And by the way, for this reason, Kenan will never have any of these cars.

• 1:17:24Speaker 03

  Well, that's not the only reason, but they're, I mean, I'll have some, I don't know.

• 1:17:27Doug DeMuro?

  Kenan doesn't care. And I'm feeling, I'm feeling it. If you don't want it, you don't have to do it.

• 1:17:31Speaker 04

  He has navigation in his car.

• 1:17:33Speaker 03

  I, which I never use, that's true.

• 1:17:35Doug DeMuro?

  Tinker toy navigation system. Remember the Lincoln Blackwood navigation that only had two buttons?

• 1:17:40Speaker 03

  The best, it's the same. It was the same system.

• 1:17:42Doug DeMuro?

  Oh, yeah, that's right.

• 1:17:43Speaker 03

  There's the Mark, there's the Mark II navigation system that was in the 2000 M5.

• 1:17:47Speaker 04

  He's upgraded to Mark IV.

• 1:17:49Speaker 03

  Uh, yes, the nav computer, that is correct.

• 1:17:51Doug DeMuro?

  You think I joke?

• 1:17:52Speaker 03

  Mark III is what came in.

• 1:17:53Speaker 04

  I don't joke, damn, I want to upgrade to a Mark IV, you know what I'm saying?

• 1:17:56Speaker 03

  He knows his stuff.

• 1:17:56Speaker 04

  I don't joke.

• 1:17:57Speaker 03

  But, yeah, I'll, oh, I get it.

• 1:17:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's more correct. And that is the right, my main.

• 1:18:02Speaker 03

  Some of us live in a Mark IV world.

• 1:18:04Doug DeMuro?

  Okay, this is Ian, Filippo, do you have any final words, any African animals you want to talk about?

• 1:18:08Speaker 04

  No, but you should check out Cars and Bids, including the pre-1981 cars that we have live right now.

• 1:18:11Doug DeMuro?

  Pre-1981, the old stuff. Cars and Bids goes vintage.

• 1:18:15Speaker 03

  Cars and everything, best podcast we've ever done.

• 1:18:17Doug DeMuro?

  Best podcast we've ever done in our lives.

• 1:18:19Speaker 04

  Proper celebration of YouTube turning 20.

• 1:18:22Doug DeMuro?

  YouTube is 20 now?

• 1:18:23Speaker 03

  Well, first video filmed right here at the San Diego Zoo.

• 1:18:25Doug DeMuro?

  That's right. They were saying all these animals. They were in front of the elephants. I didn't mention elephants. Oh, my God, next week, goodbye, everyone.