KHC 100 - Breaking News

Join us for a discussion with Cam and James G. Williams as they discuss upcoming films, the election, new gear drops, new giveaways and more! Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow James: https://www.instagram.com/james_g_williams/ Thank you to our sponsors: GoHunt: https://gohunt.com/ use code CAM when you sign up for $50 towards the gear shop + 10% off the GoHunt store Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code CAM for 15% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Timestamps: 0:00:00 Intro: Upcoming “Redemption” Film 0:04:27 James’ Napoleon Dynamite Impression 0:05:36 The Election 0:11:37 Colorado: Proposition 127 0:15:42 Katie Knights Hunt 0:23:43 Ad Break 0:24:08 Breaking News 0:30:25 Oregon Ducks 0:36:49 Upcoming Events for Cam 0:41:14 A Month in the Mountains & Upcoming Giveaways

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:16Cameron Hanes?

  Welcome to the Keep Hammer Collective. What camera am I on? Seven?

• 0:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:20Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, seven. Yeah.

• 0:24Cameron Hanes?

  This is, uh, this is Cam Haynes with James Gideon Williams. What'd you put in for your title on the film?

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Uh, Executive Dumb Fuck. I like that one.

• 0:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that was.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  At 5:00 AM.

• 0:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I came up with it. I just woke up with that. I'm like, that's your perfect title.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  That's exactly what I was thinking. I was like, did he just wake up thinking?

• 0:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, so, uh, yeah, the new grizzly film coming out, Redemption.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Redemption.

• 0:52Cameron Hanes?

  What do you think about it? What's your thoughts?

• 0:54Speaker 01

  I like it. I'm proud of it.

• 0:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  You know, as we've said before, that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

• 1:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's not the key to success. Your, uh, your whatever validation. But I did notice you started off the film with you.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  Well, I'm the most important, so.

• 1:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's usually how, like with the starring role, it goes with the biggest star. So start off with the film with Gideon.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Exactly. Introduce the character who's in the film the whole time, you know?

• 1:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  You know, I have such a large fan base now. I think that'll really draw people in.

• 1:28Cameron Hanes?

  They would, if you didn't kick it off, they'd be like, what the fuck is going on?

• 1:32Speaker 01

  They probably wouldn't watch it.

• 1:33Cameron Hanes?

  No, they'd be like, I'm out.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34Cameron Hanes?

  So they see you and they're like, okay, I'm invested.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  No, I think it's good. I think we did a good job kind of tweaking some small things and, uh, making it hit harder, which is good.

• 1:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, we'll see. I mean, it's, uh, you know, it's kind of the part two of Once We Were Wolves.

• 1:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54Cameron Hanes?

  That hunt. I shit the bed on and so redemption, I don't know if you need to explain it, but that's the goal. Get up there and make it right.

• 2:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I saw a comment on YouTube yesterday. Someone said, you know, you set the bar too high with Once We Were Wolves. So they were looking forward to Once We Were Wolves 2 and I was like, fuck.

• 2:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, they're gonna be tripping over once or redemption on the ground. It's not like a high bar is not how I'd describe it.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, with redemption?

• 2:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:29Cameron Hanes?

  No, no, actually, man, I don't know. I'm biased. I think it's, I think it's great.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  I hope people think so. We'll see. People seem to like Bush Dragons 2, Bush Dragon 2.

• 2:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, still, I don't know if I made the right choice on that title.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Bush Dragon.

• 2:50Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I, every time I see it, I'm like, God, should that have been dragons? But the first one was dragon. So I don't know. Still don't know. But yeah, it's a, it is different hunting up there. You know, people, um, and when I bear hunted here is like you'd bear hunt for four weeks, I mean, you'd bait for four weeks and hope you saw a bear. So, and like I said, back in the days, if I said in the caption, if you saw a bear, you shot it. It's like, there is no, how big is it? What is it? Male, female?

• 3:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:27Cameron Hanes?

  Any bear's a dead bear. And that was a good bear. And up there, it's different. They have the baiting because they need bears killed essentially. And if you're just wandering around, sure, you'd kill one, but they wouldn't kill enough.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:42Cameron Hanes?

  So they, you know, baiting is just another tool to hunt and they allow it up there just like they allowed it here. And there's an art to baiting. I don't, I think that gets lost on people. But then the biggest part of baiting is you're identifying what bear you're gonna kill.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:56Cameron Hanes?

  And killing any bear wouldn't be that tough.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  And this is low hanging fruit, but some might even say you become a master baiter.

• 4:05Cameron Hanes?

  You know, I've said that for as longer than you've been alive. So just so you know.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  Oh, I think it's still funny.

• 4:15Cameron Hanes?

  You need new material.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  You mean, I can't use that on Kel Tony?

• 4:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that, is that your, that's your bit?

• 4:24Cameron Hanes?

  That'll be a good one.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so. Well, the first thing I need to bring up is I was looking, because I wanted to clip it, was me doing the impression from Napoleon Dynamite.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  Over there, that creek man, I found a Shoshone arrowhead.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  I know I did it in one of the podcasts. I can't remember which one.

• 4:43Cameron Hanes?

  He did?

• 4:44Speaker 01

  So I was just gonna do it again, so I can.

• 4:46Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, okay, yeah, go ahead. This'll be good. So who are you? Let's set the scene.

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Okay, this is from Napoleon Dynamite, where they're at the farm, the chicken farm. And one of the ranchers is hard to understand because of his accent.

• 5:01Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  So.

• 5:04Speaker 02

  In that creek bed over there, I found a Shoshone arrowhead.

• 5:10Cameron Hanes?

  So, to translate, in that creek bed over there is where he found a Shoshone arrowhead?

• 5:19Speaker 01

  Exactly, yeah.

• 5:20Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, well, now we have it.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Now we have it. Now I know where to find it.

• 5:23Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, we wanted to have that as a key part to the new film. And we didn't, that's why we're shooting it now.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, so hopefully we can add that in.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:33Cameron Hanes?

  It's kind of the theme to the film.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  Okay, on to the next thing. Election, recent news.

• 5:40Cameron Hanes?

  Was there an election?

• 5:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I mean.

• 5:48Cameron Hanes?

  What do I want to say about this thing?

• 5:50Speaker 01

  Well, I will say the night before the election, I listened to the Rogan and Elon Musk.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Did you watch that at all?

• 5:59Cameron Hanes?

  Not all, no.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  At one point, Elon kind of turns at the camera and he's like, this is it. This is our last chance.

• 6:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Vote like your life depends on it. Yeah, I know. I use that in my caption. Yeah, that was good. So as far as the election goes.

• 6:18Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know if this was planned, but here's how it went. So Trump went on Rogan, crushed it. I mean, I don't know whether you love him or hate him, whatever. He talked for three hours.

• 6:30Cameron Hanes?

  And whether you say, you know, Harris could do that, or Biden could do that, maybe, but they didn't do it.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  They did.

• 6:35Cameron Hanes?

  So, so we'll, we'll never know.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:37Cameron Hanes?

  Right? All we do know is Trump did it. And then Vance went on and sounded fucking smart as hell.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 6:45Cameron Hanes?

  And normal and cussed.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:47Cameron Hanes?

  And just like, God dang, this guy's dialed in on a lot of stuff. Some people listening might hate that. I'm sorry, but he did. And then, and I don't know if it's planned, but Joe, Joe had Federman on from PA, which was about the exact opposite of JD Vance.

• 7:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:07Cameron Hanes?

  So if you're looking at like, okay, who's winning, wins, losses, good appearances, bad appearances. Federman, while he might be a nice guy, sounded like you'd expect when you saw him campaigning. And there's like, wait, this is who the Democrats elect, you know, for what Senate? Okay, cool. It's telling. I don't care. You can say he's great. You can say whatever, but people watching are making a decision on what they're hearing.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 7:35Cameron Hanes?

  And then the coupe de gras was Elon on there. And you can say whatever you want. He did spend a fortune, billions to protect free speech in his mind with X. And he had some very compelling statements. And all I took from all of that was, you know, the Democrats have been very good at politics for a long time. They're not that great at realizing where the power in media is today, and it's not legacy media. It's podcasts.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:07Cameron Hanes?

  So they're a little slow to the dance. They, you know, she decided to go and call her daddy instead of Rogan. You could look back now and say, well, that was a mistake.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:17Cameron Hanes?

  You could, uh, You know, it's just, it's a changing landscape. And right now, the Republicans, I don't know how intentional it was, but they went hard at the, at the podcast realm and went after the, the young males, which are by and large who listen to podcasts and the, the young male showed up and voted.

• 8:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I saw, um, on the, it might've been during the election night. Um, I think it was CNN was talking about how, you know, Trump did a really good job going, he did a bunch of different podcasts, big podcasts, you know, he did Rogan, um, he did, I think he did Sean Ryan, he did, um, the Nelk Boys. And then they were talking about Kamala's.

• 9:00Cameron Hanes?

  Theovans.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Theovans, yeah, they did, um, talked about Kamala's social media and they were like, oh, you know, her, she hired a bunch of 20 somethings to run her account and respond to comments, but Trump wasn't responding to comments. He was out there. He was showing face and, you know, I think they did a way better job than, people don't care if, uh, you know, you respond to a comment. They want to see you out there talking. And I think he did a really good job making himself human. And people, you know, can at least kind of see themselves in that. And so I think that helped for sure.

• 9:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I think there was a lot that went into it. Um, the media made you believe that it was going to be a runaway. Everybody loved Harris.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  It was a runaway the other way.

• 9:44Cameron Hanes?

  And, uh, that's how much you can trust the media essentially and their messaging, but, um, or legacy media. But yeah, I think, uh, I, it was, man, it was, it was fascinating to watch. But yeah, that podcast piece, um, huge. Um, yeah, I don't know. I enjoy watching CNN and all the liberal media losing their minds.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  I know. It was, it was pretty entertaining.

• 10:12Cameron Hanes?

  I'm a big fan. Megyn Kelly crushed it. She's also, you know, I, I guess she has a podcast, but mostly just watching her show and her clips and how she breaks down. She's fricking smart. Um, so she was a winner, but how insane that basically the biggest, one of the biggest impacts, I don't know, you can say the biggest or one of them, uh, was Joe Rogan. I mean, impacting this election. How incredible is that?

• 10:39Speaker 01

  I know.

• 10:40Cameron Hanes?

  And it's just because. He, you know, he was genuine. People could tell that the questioning was genuine, but also like even when he said, he didn't take a shot at Kamala and saying anything negative. He just said, no, I'd love to talk to her, love to have her in the same position here as Trump was, and didn't like make himself seem biased one way or another at all. And he, that is genuine. He does want to just talk to her.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:05Cameron Hanes?

  Just because it's hard to tell what she's about, you know, with these little soundbites and things. But what we want, no. So it was like, well, what were they hiding? Because they kind of hid Biden this whole time about his cognitive decline and saying he was sharp as ever and all this. And then we see him and they abandon him because he is, you know, has lost it essentially. So it's hard to believe what they say until they sit down and actually share it.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 11:31Cameron Hanes?

  And I think that's the biggest thing we learned from this, this election.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  Definitely. And then on the state level, something huge happened, which was, you know, Prop 127 in Colorado.

• 11:42Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  That was awesome.

• 11:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that went down. That was, um, that was huge because it was the first time I remember hunters really coming together and unifying.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:53Cameron Hanes?

  And it wasn't even really close, which Colorado is a blue state to have, you know, a very liberal governor. Um, you could ask what their intentions are with hunting, but it doesn't look great.

• 12:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:04Cameron Hanes?

  Uh, for the future. And, and hunters, because, and I've mentioned this in my post, but it's, you know, I want to mention a lot of people who were involved, but namely Dan Gates and Coloradoans for Responsible Wildlife Management, HOWL, um, another acronym, but they fight for hunters' rights. Basically, those two organizations really helped organize a lot of people. And Meat Eater had some great takes. Steve Rinaldi had some great takes. As I said, Derek Wolfe.

• 12:34Cameron Hanes?

  Randy Newberg, Go Hunt, those guys, they showed up at the Capitol, they educated voters. We came together again, and I'll say this, and I said this on my post, if you follow a hunting page and they never mention this prop, they're not for hunters.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:54Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, they're under some other weird agenda, who knows what it's fueled by, but if they're for hunters and hunters' rights and working together and protecting what we love, they would have mentioned Prop 127. If they didn't, you don't need to know anything more about them.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:08Cameron Hanes?

  They're not on the same team as we are. They're on some weird team against us, masquerading as maybe fellow hunters, but they're not.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, I thought that was, I was more nervous and I tracked that more through the night than I did the election. And I think I checked in and it was like 55% for no, maybe like 30% reporting or something. And I was like, fuck, probably Denver has to be counted or something. And I was like, it's gonna go down. And then it just kept doing good.

• 13:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. How I was reasoning in my head is normally the cities are counted first.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  I know, yeah.

• 13:44Cameron Hanes?

  Cause you remember where we went and spoke in Denver, I mean, not in Denver, in Colorado. It was not in the metropolitan area.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  No.

• 13:51Cameron Hanes?

  So I'm thinking those votes gotta come in slower. So I'm like, if we got a lead and Denver has to have been counted already, then these outskirts, cause I figured Springs and

• 14:00Speaker 01

  Yep, Boulder.

• 14:01Cameron Hanes?

  And Boulder and Denver, that, those would come in first and then hopefully the rural areas that actually have to deal with lions and wolves and things like that.

• 14:11Cameron Hanes?

  It would, it would go our way and it did, but man, that was, it also, it kinda, and I mentioned this in one of the clips I shared, but it's kind of a blueprint for us moving forward. But I did put up a poll too, and people love to talk shit about Rogan, like not really, not, they don't, it's just these weird group of hunters. But you can say whatever you want, him talking about it, educated a lot of voters. I put it on my, on my page, the poll. It was his page and my page were essentially tied for where they, where did people hear about Proposition 127?

• 14:47Cameron Hanes?

  As a, I mean, huge platform. You got the most, you know, as a presidential election showed, one of the most powerful voices in the world right now, and he's a hunter. And there's a group of people who want to fucking talk negative about that. It's insane. But anyway, point is, he's on our side. He understands it. He's passionate. He cares. And he educates the masses. Um, that's probably one of the biggest reasons we won that proposition. Other than Dan Gates and, uh, and Howell and those guys.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't get as a hunter, why you would talk shit on Joe Rogan, because if he was against us.

• 15:25Cameron Hanes?

  We'd be done.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 15:26Cameron Hanes?

  We'd be done.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  So, uh, yeah, we, we want him on our side. That's for sure. But yeah, I thought that was huge. Um, you know, I'm sure people have heard about the election enough, so we'll move on, but.

• 15:37Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Um, I thought it was great.

• 15:42Speaker 01

  I wanted to touch a little bit on Katie's hunt.

• 15:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. Um, man, what a stud.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  She had a really awkward time.

• 15:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I think, are you still traumatized from that?

• 15:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm still butt hurt.

• 15:58Cameron Hanes?

  We had a call. She said something about James being even more awkward than normal. So I don't, I'm like, we, we, we broke that down a little bit.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Here's the thing about me, for people that don't know, I have no problem sitting in a room and not saying anything. Like, I, you know, I don't, I'm not going to fill the silence with words that I don't mean, so I'll just sit there and basically look around.

• 16:28Cameron Hanes?

  Or peek in through your mom's bedroom door. Yeah, I know. I mean, you don't say a lot, but you're, yeah, I mean,

• 16:38Cameron Hanes?

  like that?

• 16:38Speaker 01

  I think people are gonna get that one.

• 16:41Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 16:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, just not talking, just, just observing.

• 16:49Cameron Hanes?

  Some would call it voyeurism. I don't know, but I don't know.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  Did a lot of observe.

• 16:59Cameron Hanes?

  So that just, is that what you're talking about?

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 17:03Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  And that's not awkward. And that's where I learned it.

• 17:07Cameron Hanes?

  That's not awkward, though.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Apparently it is. Apparently it's, and this is important, more awkward. Which means I already have a base level of awkwardness.

• 17:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, the standard is set. Add awkward.

• 17:21Cameron Hanes?

  All we can do is just hold the standard or go further.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  But, not joking, she had a great hunt. That was a good time. That film will be coming out, too.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, tell us a little bit about that one.

• 17:35Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, let's see. Well, I mean, I love, I don't rifle hunt, as we've talked about, I think, many times. But I love hunting. I don't care what, if I'm out there, I'm happy. So I, there's these, two hunts every year I can secure for people, whoever I want to take. And it's awesome logging country.

• 18:01Cameron Hanes?

  I wish there was more bucks, but there's enough. There's a lot of lions there, so they kind of kill the bucks. But they're having, I mean, having a pretty big impact on the deer. But it's a good opportunity to get out there, expose new hunters to the hunting that I grew up doing. Western Oregon blacktail. And it's just what I've done for over 40 years now. I mean, I bow hunted 36 or 7, and then I think I've rifle hunted since I was 15. So it's like 42 years. And I just like taking people. So one of the hunts that I get every year, I take Truitt on. I like sharing the time with him. Hopefully, we can help him get a buck, which he always does.

• 18:46Cameron Hanes?

  And so that's fun. And then I have another one, which this year Andrew Huberman was going to go. But then he couldn't because of scheduling and his dad's 81st birthday. And so then I was like, well, who could I, who would be into this? And Katie came to mind. She's participated in the SIG tactical game, so I know she can shoot. She hadn't hunted, but I know, I know she wants to. We shot bows when she came here. I gave her a bow. She's a beast. I love her athletic mindset and approach and just being serious about training and, uh, and shooting again. So I thought the people who I like to take hunting

• 19:29Cameron Hanes?

  is somebody who I think can appreciate the experience. And I was just, you never, you never really know how it's gonna go. But, uh, hunting and killing is, it can be pretty intense.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  For sure it can. Yeah. And she can definitely shoot. That's for sure.

• 19:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  I mean, she's a stud.

• 19:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah. We had, uh, Joe there in Powers who's like, uh, I always say he's like the guy in, was that Shooter? I can now.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. With Mark Wahlberg.

• 19:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah. So the guy who at the gun shop who knows everything about everything and who is a great shot. That's how Joe is to, in my mind, in Powers there. And so we got her there, uh, picked her up at the airport, got her down there in time to shoot this gun, this, uh, Sig that they sent me and, uh, seven millimeter PRC. And she shot, you know, we got it dialed in. She shot at a hundred. It was just like a quarter inch left, kind of tweaked, or maybe half inch left, tweaked the scope over a couple of quicks. And, uh, then she shot at 300 and the steel was kind of turned. So it wasn't even full facing, but it was like quartering away, kind of the plate. And she rung it the first time

• 20:39Cameron Hanes?

  at 300. So I'm like, and Joe said, he looked at her and how she shot. And he's like, she could, she could hit a 500.

• 20:45Speaker 01

  I believe it.

• 20:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:48Cameron Hanes?

  So that, that was fun.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:49Cameron Hanes?

  And.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  That's a good time. She's just, she's super cool too. Funny and easy to get along with. She makes it easy.

• 20:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  She put up with our dumb asses. My dumb ass.

• 21:00Cameron Hanes?

  That's the most impressive thing. Cause it's either like, yeah. I mean, I don't know.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  I gotta read this. She sent me a, a sticker that she said she's gonna get for me. It's pretty funny. It says, maybe she.

• 21:19Cameron Hanes?

  Deleted it. Cause there's no proof.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. Maybe it did. It's gone.

• 21:27Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  Oh no, here it is.

• 21:29Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 21:30Speaker 01

  If you think, if you think this silence is awkward, just wait until I start talking.

• 21:38Cameron Hanes?

  And that that describes Gideon.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's perfect. I need a shirt that says that.

• 21:44Cameron Hanes?

  So basically, here's whatever, I mean, especially hunting, seems like conversations get a little crazy. Whatever craziness you got to just joking around, having fun, James will go too far. So you're like, this is, this is pretty awkward right here. And then it's like, wow.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  I'm pretty much a open stream of consciousness. It's just, there's no filter. So I tell people is like, if you don't want to joke finished, don't start. I'll take it over the line.

• 22:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. If you don't want to take this conversation too far, just don't even talk.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  Don't say it. And if you don't even start it, I'm gonna, I'll probably start it.

• 22:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So it was fun. It was, uh, yeah, she's great. Um, we had, I mean, just a good hunt, but,

• 22:32Cameron Hanes?

  it poured in the morning. We got pretty soaked.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Good weather event.

• 22:36Cameron Hanes?

  Good weather event. Yeah, we probably didn't get it on film, but it'd be nice if we did. And then, yeah, I mean, had her set up to make, to make a long shot, which I think she could have, but then last minute, I just didn't feel good about it. So,

• 22:52Cameron Hanes?

  I thought, you know what? Let's make this memorable. Either we're gonna blow this buck out or we're gonna get, make it slam dunk. And we ended up getting to 87 yards. It wasn't quite as controlled as I thought because I was hoping we'd get over there. The buck was bedded this whole time, but couple of cow elk spooked, buck got on his feet. He didn't know what was going on. I mean, the wind was good in our, in our face or kind of quartering across. So I knew he wasn't gonna smell us, but

• 23:18Cameron Hanes?

  he got up out of the unit and started heading towards the timber, just walking. And then he was stopped and he's looking at the cows, um, the two cows that spooked or that they didn't really spook. I don't know. They were just kind of moving too, but, uh, he had stopped and then we came up over the ridge and, uh, got Katie set up on the sticks and she just made a perfect shot.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. Was it 89 yards?

• 23:40Cameron Hanes?

  Eighty seven.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  Eighty seven?

• 23:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. Awesome. Well, we have new merch coming out, don't we?

• 23:47Cameron Hanes?

  I think so.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I don't think you even know this. Um, so this, this is breaking news. I don't want to say this.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  We should get Macy to put a breaking news graphic in right there.

• 23:58Cameron Hanes?

  It looks like. I mean, if I had to guess, I think I'm going to be wearing new camo. So.

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Breaking news.

• 24:06Cameron Hanes?

  This is breaking news. What? I don't know. But uh, still don't know that, but uh, this is. I mean, we're going to have to address this at some point. So um, let me think.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  For people wondering, I don't wear camo. I just wear a tight latex.

• 24:26Cameron Hanes?

  He wears a bodysuit.

• 24:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, wears his bodysuit. Um, and it's not very flattering.

• 24:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, never anticipated that I would be wearing anything but Origin, you know, co-founder. Super honored to be involved and um, yeah, so never anticipated anything changing on that front. But all I'm going to have to say is uh,

• 25:02Cameron Hanes?

  shit happens.

• 25:05Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, I don't, I don't, I'm not, you know, there's a lot of stuff that's happened in this journey. In this, I guess you could call it hunting career, which I don't like saying that because this is just what I do. It's what all I care about, you know, the business part is just, I hate it. It's the worst part of it.

• 25:24Cameron Hanes?

  But there's been a lot of things over, as I said, I've been hunting for 42 years. I, you know, I killed my first bull with a bow in 1989. And I wrote an article about it called Bulls, Bugles and Botches. So I've been writing since 89. And uh, and wanted to earn and fight for a spot in the industry and writing and sharing my adventures. For that whole time, since that first bow kill. So yeah, I was a little bit ahead of the, ahead of myself. Probably should have bow hunted and been successful for a while before I started writing, but this is what I've always wanted to do. So.

• 25:58Cameron Hanes?

  I kinda, you know, carved out a niche for myself in the industry and along that time, um, there's been a lot of, lot of things, a lot of partnerships, a lot of deals that I thought were incredible. And I'm like, I can't believe I'm in this position and then they fall apart. And then, you know, things happen, there's personalities, there's, I screw up, I'm an idiot, I, you know, whatever, this is just, I'm not like, I'm not like this polished business person. So that's not what happened in this case, I don't think. But point is, is like, there's been a lot of ups and downs and behind the scenes things over all these decades that I've been doing this that I don't share. And then people don't, don't need to know

• 26:42Cameron Hanes?

  about it. It doesn't fucking matter. I'm, I'm a bow hunter. That's what I'm gonna do. And, you know, the partners I have,

• 26:53Cameron Hanes?

  um, you know, I hope they believe in me and I, I, you know, I work my ass off not for them, just because this is what I do. And if, if the partnership can benefit because of that, then, um, then great, everybody wins. But sometimes, as I said to start this little diatribe, shit happens.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:13Cameron Hanes?

  And that's all I'm gonna say about this. It's like,

• 27:18Cameron Hanes?

  yeah, I mean, I'm probably gonna be, you know, wearing a different brand of camo and, um,

• 27:26Cameron Hanes?

  that's pretty much all I'm gonna say.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  It is what it is. Yeah. I have nothing to add, so.

• 27:32Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I know you don't know any details. And actually, I don't, I don't even know what I'm gonna be doing, but it, it looks like it's gonna be something else. And that's, that's fine. I want, I want Origin to kick ass. Um, you know, thankful for, for whatever last few years. Um, yeah, I mean, I want, whether I stay there or not, um, you never know, but I don't think so. But I'll, either way, I want them to be successful.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. Check out this transition. So, speaking of your,

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Almost, I would call that your uniform for what you do. You know, someone else's uniform that's good looking is the Ducks.

• 28:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 28:11Speaker 01

  And how about their record right now?

• 28:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  Ten and O.

• 28:15Cameron Hanes?

  It was good. Yesterday was, I don't even know how it can be winning by twenty-one or to be frustrated with that win. It didn't seem like we were ever clicking.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  No.

• 28:25Cameron Hanes?

  Um, and we, like, I didn't get too much playing time, but everybody likes to say we.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  Only a couple of minutes.

• 28:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, I guess because I've born and raised in Eugene, so it's, it's, you just kind of say we, but, uh, yeah, it's to, to have, um, like an underwhelming performance and still win by that much and put up, what, thirty-nine, I think? I don't, or thirty-eight?

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think thirty-eight.

• 28:49Cameron Hanes?

  Thirty-eight?

• 28:50Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 28:51Cameron Hanes?

  Um, it's pretty impressive.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, was it thirty-eight, twenty-four? Is that the final score?

• 28:56Cameron Hanes?

  Uh, or twenty?

• 28:57Speaker 01

  Twenty-eight?

• 28:58Cameron Hanes?

  Shit, I don't even know. I thought we won by three touchdowns.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  Did we?

• 29:02Cameron Hanes?

  I thought.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  Oh, well, maybe we did. I don't know. No, they had twenty. Let's see.

• 29:08Cameron Hanes?

  Are you sure?

• 29:10Speaker 01

  I don't know. Yeah, it's thirty. We're both wrong. Thirty-nine, eighteen.

• 29:14Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, see, twenty-one.

• 29:16Speaker 01

  Twenty-one, yeah, three touchdowns. You were right with that.

• 29:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So, I mean, it's, it's not even a close game.

• 29:21Speaker 01

  No.

• 29:21Cameron Hanes?

  But it should have been like a thousand to one.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  I know. Maryland's not that good.

• 29:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  That's all right. As long as we can bring it with the good teams.

• 29:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  You know, I'd be sick to have an undefeated season.

• 29:32Cameron Hanes?

  No, it'd be good, but it's like, you never want to play down to your level of competition. You want to set the standard. Did I say set the standard before? I think that's the second set the standard. Oh, yeah, with your awkwardness. Yeah, so we've, that's our reference of the day is set the standard, whether it's awkwardness or football play. But, yeah, you, you never want to come down to who you're playing. You want to just crush them, you know, foot on the neck and just be like, hey, this is how we play. So it didn't feel like we were able to do that yesterday.

• 30:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:03Cameron Hanes?

  And that doesn't feel great. But I did see, I saw some guy on Piska the other day.

• 30:11Cameron Hanes?

  And I'm like, I've never seen this guy up here before. And so he had on Speedlans and I'm like, hey, I like your shoes. He's like, oh, thanks. I follow everything you do. And I go, oh, yeah. I said, like, looking at him, I'm like, you've been up here before? He's like, yeah, a couple of times. I go, oh, hmm. Then I looked at his hat and it was like an Oregon baseball hat because he looked like, I'm like, the normal people you see up there.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:37Cameron Hanes?

  They're like, I don't know, old like me or whatever. And they're just getting exercise. And this guy was like an athlete. And so I saw he had an Oregon baseball hat on. I said, oh, you play for the Ducks? He's like, yes, sir. Yes, I do. And yeah, so that was cool. I told him, I said, yeah, his, I think it's the head coach over there has reached out before. I don't know about going over there. I can't remember what it was about. Maybe talking to the team, but yeah, it was cool.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  That'd be sweet.

• 31:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. There's a couple of games I'd like to happen. I don't think they can all happen, but one would be Boise, because they're ranked against Texas. That's a game Connor and I have wanted to happen since we were kids.

• 31:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  The other one would be Alabama versus Texas. I have a friend who she'll, she's gonna owe me a Dr. Pepper when Texas beats Alabama.

• 31:26Cameron Hanes?

  Wow.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  And then Texas versus Oregon.

• 31:29Cameron Hanes?

  Ooh.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  That'd be a sick game.

• 31:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that, that would. Did Boise State play yesterday?

• 31:36Speaker 01

  I don't know. I didn't look. I don't think so. They think they had a bye.

• 31:38Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, yeah, because I've been keeping track of their running back.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  Oh, they did. They beat Nevada 28-21.

• 31:44Cameron Hanes?

  Ooh, how many yards did he have? Because if he's in the Heisman watch, he needs to be keeping that pace up. Last year, I mean, he was averaging 200 yards a game rushing.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  Let's see.

• 31:59Cameron Hanes?

  Even 200 against the Ducks, I think. They'd lost by three.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  I know.

• 32:05Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah, they're, they're good. Kind of a tight game yesterday, but hopefully he played well.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  Over 200.

• 32:12Cameron Hanes?

  He did?

• 32:13Speaker 01

  Fourth 200 rushing yard performance.

• 32:15Cameron Hanes?

  God, frickin' stud.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 32:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that guy's a beast.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:21Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know. I saw Georgia won yesterday. Again, I think they beat, who was that? Was that Penn State? Or was that Ohio State who played Penn State?

• 32:30Speaker 01

  I don't think Georgia played.

• 32:33Cameron Hanes?

  I know they won. I think they got back on.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  They played Ole Miss.

• 32:36Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, yeah.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  They lost.

• 32:38Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, they Georgia lost?

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Twenty eight, ten.

• 32:41Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah, that's right.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  That's a big deal.

• 32:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, so.

• 32:45Speaker 01

  Because they were number two.

• 32:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's right. That's what I was thinking. Yeah, there was a few top teams that lost yesterday.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Let's see what the rankings are. They're probably not up. Yeah, they're not updated. That'll throw it around.

• 32:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 32:57Speaker 01

  Ohio State won.

• 32:59Cameron Hanes?

  They beat who?

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Let's see. Purdue forty five, zero.

• 33:06Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, close one. Okay.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know Penn State lost last week, so.

• 33:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I saw. Yeah, that was to Ohio State.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  They beat Washington yesterday thirty five, six, though.

• 33:17Cameron Hanes?

  So we got Washington coming up. That's one of our games. And then also Wisconsin, I think. I think Wisconsin's next.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  Should beat both of them.

• 33:26Cameron Hanes?

  We should. And then it's a Big Ten championship.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty big deal.

• 33:31Cameron Hanes?

  And I think Indiana's undefeated.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  Really?

• 33:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I think they're ten and oh.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  No way.

• 33:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Who have they played?

• 33:41Cameron Hanes?

  They're in the Big Ten.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  You know who's ten and oh is the Bobcats, Montana State.

• 33:47Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 33:49Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 33:52Cameron Hanes?

  Well, so they're playing the Ducks?

• 33:54Speaker 01

  They're playing high schoolers.

• 33:57Cameron Hanes?

  No, there's some good players over there, but it's not quite.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:02Cameron Hanes?

  It's not the SEC or the Big Ten for sure.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  No, but we're coming for it.

• 34:06Cameron Hanes?

  There's studs. There's some studs there. I like watching that level of football. I mean, I didn't even play that level. I wasn't even good enough to play lower than that level. So what the fuck am I talking about?

• 34:17Speaker 01

  I didn't play at all, so I'd have gotten broken in half.

• 34:20Cameron Hanes?

  I think that goes without saying.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, the only other thing would be what we got coming up. We got a wild week. Well, wild couple of weeks.

• 34:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I know. Um, let's see.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Going to watch our favorite fighter Jake Paul.

• 34:39Cameron Hanes?

  God, you know who I'm addicted to or not addicted to? I don't know.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  Obsessed with, stock, stalker.

• 34:44Cameron Hanes?

  No, but Katie Taylor, do you know who that is? She's fighting on the, it's like the co-main or right under Tyson Paul. Um, she's fighting Serrano, I think, but Katie Taylor's from Ireland. Just freaking stud.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  Badass?

• 35:00Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, my God. Yeah, I watched a documentary on her last night. She's a stud. Been through a lot. Um, fucking tough as hell. So I'm, um, she's cool. Uh, the Tyson Paul, I watched the documentary or the like the series on that. Watched the first two episodes. The next one comes out this week and I don't know. I don't even know what to expect.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  I know. It's tough to call that because you don't know what's in the contract and all that. And people say certain things, but I hope Tyson wins. That's what I'm hoping for.

• 35:28Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I'm going as a guest of Paul.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I mean, what I meant to say is I wish Paul wins. Yeah.

• 35:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Um, yeah, it's, it's gonna be.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  You know what? If he has a problem with me saying that, he can fight me.

• 35:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, he can say it to my face.

• 35:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So are you, when are you going? Cause I'm going, you're not going to Austin, are you?

• 35:52Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 35:52Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, you are? Okay. Um, what am I doing in Austin? Going to Austin?

• 35:57Speaker 01

  When are you going to Austin?

• 35:58Cameron Hanes?

  Thursday.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:00Cameron Hanes?

  Or no, not Thursday.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  Dallas Thursday. Then aren't we going to the UFC fights?

• 36:04Cameron Hanes?

  No, see Dallas and Austin are different.

• 36:09Cameron Hanes?

  So I go to Austin on Thursday, Dallas on Friday. The Tyson fight's Friday.

• 36:16Speaker 01

  Well, maybe, I don't know. The last I talked to Rihanna, I was going Thursday.

• 36:20Cameron Hanes?

  To where?

• 36:21Speaker 01

  With you.

• 36:22Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, you, okay.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Maybe I'm going to Dallas alone. Maybe I'll fly into Dallas.

• 36:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, anyway. Anyway, point is, yeah, I go, we got a big, um, business, uh, it hasn't been announced yet, so stay tuned.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Not breaking news yet.

• 36:36Cameron Hanes?

  This is not breaking news, but gonna go down there and meet with my business partners on Thursday for dinner. Uh, I don't, yeah.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  So, I don't know if I need to be there.

• 36:46Cameron Hanes?

  Probably not, unless you're gonna just stand in the corner.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  I'll be awkward, I can do.

• 36:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, they'll be like, who the fuck is this guy?

• 36:53Speaker 01

  So.

• 36:54Cameron Hanes?

  Um, and then we go to the fight on Friday, and then I'm deciding, I don't know if the UFC is happening Saturday, but if not, then it's, uh, I'm gonna go hunting.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 37:05Cameron Hanes?

  So.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  Both would be sweet. It's a good card, 309.

• 37:10Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 37:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:11Cameron Hanes?

  Well, John Jones, yeah, so I'm going with Ketone IQ, shout out to Ketone, uh, they're a great sponsor of the podcast, but they're bringing me down. I think me and Michael Brant are gonna do a podcast. He's got a new format, as I just did with John Jones, where they're both on treadmills.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I saw that.

• 37:27Cameron Hanes?

  So I think we're gonna do a podcast there in Dallas and, uh, go to the fights, which should be just a fucking circus.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:34Cameron Hanes?

  And then maybe go hop on a, you know, do a little hitchhiking on, I think, a private jet to New York, or just go and just deer hunt. But either way, even if we did go to New York for UFC, still go back and deer hunt, then maybe it's a jelly roll on Tuesday. I think he's got a concert. And then hunt some more if I hadn't killed, and then waste well on the tail end of the week. That's what I think's gonna happen.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:02Cameron Hanes?

  So it's, it's Austin, Dallas, New York, San Antonio, hunting. Austin, back home.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  Easy, easy week.

• 38:14Cameron Hanes?

  Sounds exhausting.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, so.

• 38:16Cameron Hanes?

  I'd rather just go hunting.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  Chandler's, is Chandler fighting too, in that garden?

• 38:20Cameron Hanes?

  I think he is.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, yeah, it's Jones, Olivera, Chandler.

• 38:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's huge.

• 38:26Speaker 01

  It's, uh, they're all fighting each other. Three-way fight.

• 38:29Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Fight.

• 38:32Cameron Hanes?

  See? See?

• 38:34Speaker 01

  If John Jones has a problem with that, he could fight.

• 38:37Cameron Hanes?

  This reminds you of your three-way at the hot tub, or the hot springs.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  Cougar hot tub.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  Sounds like my kind of point.

• 38:46Cameron Hanes?

  God.

• 38:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, and then I'll, I'll, so we got Month in the Mountain starting too. So the first episode is this Wednesday, redemption, and then hopefully, probably not, but it'd be nice if every, a new one came out every week.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  Supposed to. Hopefully it's on, on schedule, but oh, speaking, well, we can talk after the podcast.

• 39:07Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, and then a couple other quick announcements. I'm giving away so much shit, it's ridiculous just by buying stuff off of cameronhanes.com. You're entered in to win this truck sitting out here.

• 39:20Speaker 01

  We should have driven it in here so they could see it.

• 39:21Cameron Hanes?

  Right. I'm also giving away, I don't know if you know this, one of those Kawasaki side by sides.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  That thing's badass.

• 39:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that's sick. So we're, we're able to give one of those away.

• 39:31Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 39:32Cameron Hanes?

  We're giving away a grizzly brown bear hunt from Bushwhack. This is, that's where I just killed a grizzly, and that's where the film is, is focused on, is, is hunting with Bushwhack. But we're giving away a grizzly brown bear hunt, which is like a, I don't know, 20, 30,000 dollar hunt. And then, oh, I think we're giving away some cold tubs out here.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  I mean, all of those are sick prizes.

• 39:55Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, thousands of dollars. So up to 200,000 for the truck, 30 or 40 for the side by side, 20 or 30 for the bear hunt, and then five to 10 for the cold tub. It's like, I mean, and what, you gotta buy kind of some cool hats and hoodies?

• 40:11Speaker 01

  You don't even have to do that, right?

• 40:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I think there's free entry. Yeah, you, you increase your odds. We do like, for every dollar you spend, you get a point, but then there's certain weeks where it's like five times, so for every dollar you get five times the points. But the point is, you're getting cool stuff. I think it's cool. I wear it. You might not think it's cool, but I think it's cool, and you have a chance to win, it feels like amazing stuff.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. And I, and there's a bunch of other smaller things getting given away too, throughout the couple, next couple of months, so it is in there. Yeah.

• 40:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, basically. It seems like, I mean, I could be doing pretty good business wise, but I always just give everything I get away.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  To me.

• 40:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah. That's how indebted I am to you, I guess. All right, guys. What camera am I at? Six, seven? Twelve?

• 41:06Speaker 01

  Twelve. Yep.

• 41:08Cameron Hanes?

  Thank you for tuning in. This is the Gideon Show. And we're out. Keep hammering.