#396 - “Ozempic on Steroids” Next Wave of Miracle Peptides Is Coming | Mark Bell

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Mark Bell is a world renowned powerlifter, fitness expert & host of the @MarkBellsPowerProject podcast. SPONSORS https://rhonutrition.com - Use code DANNY for 20% off sitewide. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off. EPISODE LINKS @MarkBellsPowerProject @marksmellybell https://markbellslingshot.com FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - The importance of daily movement 05:52 - How sprints affect your nervous system 11:38 - School is making kids unhealthy 15:29 - The Acton Academy in California 20:51 - Forcing kids into hobbies 24:22 - What happened when Danny quit kratom 26:09 - 7-OH vs. kratom 32:07 - The 7-OH ban is increasing opioid deaths 39:27 - Caffeine 41:19 - Kratom related deaths in the U. S. 45:23 - Biological tax of GLP-1s 50:40 - The high-fat problem in modern diets 53:41 - Pasta is not as bad as you think 01:01:08 - Eat under 100g fat per day 01:04:20 - Mark's thoughts on fasting 01:06:27 - GLP-1 is killing desire 01:14:00 - What happens when you quit testosterone 01:18:06 - Is testosterone a steroid? 01:21:59 - Mortality rate of bodybuilders 01:29:28 - Assisted s**cide vs. natural death 01:34:14 - Equanimity training 01:42:21 - Texting is a low form of communication 01:44:39 - The sweaty t-shirt study 01:49:10 - Trenbolone can make you gay 01:53:43 - Optimal bedtime rituals 01:57:00 - Hyperbaric chambers 01:59:43 - Importance of finger strength training 02:03:06 - Foot health & PEDs in pro sports 02:08:14 - NEW miracle peptide too powerful for FDA approval Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Danny Jones?

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• 1:10Speaker 01

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• 1:43Speaker 02

  I'm sorry about my midlife crisis, but you're gonna have to deal with the mustache and the hair for now.

• 1:47Danny Jones?

  It's phenomenal. You look like you're about to join the WWE.

• 1:52Speaker 02

  Hey, you know, I didn't make it the first time. Maybe I could try for a second go of it.

• 1:55Danny Jones?

  I mean, you got the looks, bro. I think you can make it happen.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  You never know.

• 1:59Danny Jones?

  What you been up to, man?

• 2:01Speaker 02

  Man, just lots of stuff, you know, trying to always work on getting better in terms of movement and exercise and all those good things. So trying to get my body, I guess, like unstuck from the years and years of powerlifting.

• 2:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:15Speaker 02

  I spent a lot of time thinking it was a great idea to get like as huge as possible. And so I, you know, got up to 330 pounds. My body became very stiff. And as the commentary on the internet goes with me running, I'm still stiff. So I'm working my way through it and working on it. As you saw today, we did some,

• 2:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  We did a little bit of running.

• 2:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah, we did. We pushed the sled around for a little bit and then we ran. We ran around the block a couple of times and I was, uh, I was fucking out of gas, dude.

• 2:48Speaker 02

  Isn't it crazy? Just, just to run around the block?

• 2:50Danny Jones?

  It's not even that hot out here. It's like a nice day today, too.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  It's beautiful out.

• 2:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  I do, I do want to say, you know, one thing that I really would love to encourage people to do is, and I realize every part of the United States is so different, but just try to get outside.

• 3:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  You know, we have a tendency to think that our workouts need to always be like full throttle, need to be really hard, but literally, I think getting outside would change most people's life. The, the people especially that aren't getting outside now. So use your phone or use certain cues during the day to just think to yourself, could I just be outside right now? Cause maybe you could be. And that, that's a small change. I know you've had Jack Cruz and some other people come on the show, talk about sunlight.

• 3:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  And the benefits of it, but it's just very clear that in our, in our civilization for many, many years, we've needed to move a certain amount and we need to spend a certain amount of time outside.

• 3:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man. I do it every morning. The first thing I do is I go outside and I spend like the first 20, 30 minutes outside. It's a game changer. It really is, especially in Florida, because we get really good sun here.

• 3:53Speaker 02

  You were saying that you love to move before the show.

• 3:58Danny Jones?

  Oh, that I wanted to move to California?

• 4:00Speaker 02

  No, no, you just love, love movement. We were talking about San Diego and stuff too.

• 4:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  But you love movement before you do the show every time.

• 4:06Danny Jones?

  Oh, yes.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  Exercise, lifting, pushing yourself.

• 4:09Danny Jones?

  Being perpetually sleep deprived as I am with kids, I, the, the one thing that will wake me up is like a really hard fucking workout before a podcast.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  Just something intense.

• 4:21Danny Jones?

  That and like, yeah, and then being outside. Usually I like to work out outside. So I like drag all that shit out into the road and, you know, do it out there. That's like optimal.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  That's what we were doing with the tank. We took the tank out and we took it for a little spin and then we went on that, we went on that run. But I believe that every person has to figure out, and I, I, this is made up, made up math by me, so take it for whatever it's worth, but I think that everybody needs to figure out a way to expend in addition to their just metabolic rate, in addition to their body just being their body and them just having a certain caloric requirement every day just to survive. I think they need to expend 500 to like a thousand calories, which is a lot because I think that human beings are designed to move about five to seven miles every single day. And I don't necessarily mean like literally just like walking back and forth and walking around, but at the same

• 5:16Speaker 02

  time, there probably is some literal amount of steps that you need. There's probably a minimum requirement. And I heard you say today, like with utilizing testosterone, you kind of mentioned, like, you kind of feel like if you don't move around, you start to feel antsy. That feels like locked up.

• 5:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  I think many people feel that even without taking testosterone because they don't move. You've been somebody that has been into movement pretty much your whole life, surfing.

• 5:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 5:41Speaker 02

  Jiu Jitsu, lifting. You've been a very active person. There's a lot of people that don't have that activity. They didn't grow up with that and they didn't grow up with the understanding that physical education is. Is first and foremost, like it's the first thing that we need.

• 5:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  It's the first thing that you learn. You start to move around a lot more than, uh, before you ever start to develop the ability to talk or even the ability to walk. You're literally just trying to move.

• 6:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  To develop your body so that you can prepare yourself for what?

• 6:10Danny Jones?

  Well, it makes you feel so much better during the day. It makes you feel, especially if you're, if your job is sitting in a chair, talking, you know, you, you have to be able to, to do something and move and get around. You're not, it's not like a physical job. So like, like when, when I went to California to meet with you guys and do your, do your show, like how we did that, you know, workout beforehand, like I felt fricking great after doing that with the sandbags and the sled and the rope flow and all that. There's nothing better. There's nothing better than doing that before like, uh, before completing a task that requires no movement, you know? It really, it really locks you in and puts you in the zone. I think it's, it's the best way to keep balanced when you're, when you're doing shit like this.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  People sometimes use the term, uh, like jog your memory. Have you ever heard that? You know, I think that's kind of what you're doing. You're jogging your brain. You're trying to get your, trying to get everything to fire the right way. And one of the best ways to get stuff to fire is to drop down and just do a shit ton of pushups.

• 7:03Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  You know, you don't really realize how difficult, we kind of discredit a lot of things because we've seen people do some pretty extraordinary feats. We've seen the David Goggins and we've seen, you know, people sprint all these crazy speeds and squat all these crazy insane amounts of weight. But you kind of forget just to, just squatting your own body weight and doing some pushups, go back and forth between doing sets of 10 on both of those. You'll be gassed.

• 7:29Danny Jones?

  Dude, the sprints, the sprints are wild. Cause I, I listened to the podcast you did with that woman talking about sprints. And I told you, I started doing those on the beach and those are like, those will wake you up.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  Shout out to Cynthia. She's, uh, faster over 40 on Instagram. Yeah, she's incredible. So she runs, she does 400 meters in like 57 seconds or something like that, which, um, which it's a goal of mine at 50, I want to be able to do, uh, under a minute. So she's, she's faster than me. Um, and she's, she's just pretty damn fast in general, but sprinting is critical.

• 8:06Danny Jones?

  What is supposed to be the overall benefit of doing sprints?

• 8:12Speaker 02

  There's a lot, there's a lot to it, but the basics are central nervous system. So we don't really tap into the central nervous system that much when we, it's tapped into. There's, there's a crossover point between bodybuilding and strength training. I would say strength training, I would define as being more like sets of six reps and under. That actually does tap into your nervous system a little bit more. And, and I'm not trying to speak sciency, I'm speaking like from my own experience and from what I've seen. But some of the anecdotal evidence would be if I, if I did three sets of three with you

• 8:53Speaker 02

  and we went as heavy as we could on some type of deadlift, you'd be driving home and you would be visibly like kind of shaking. You'd be like, oh, that's your nervous system getting, getting fired up. You don't normally get that from normal workouts. Now you can get that from plyometrics. You can get that by tapping into exercises where your muscles need to fire in a really quick period of time. And I think that that side of strength training is not getting talked about enough. I think that we need to figure out how many different ways can I sprint? And how many different ways can I sprint safely? Because someone may tell you, oh, you know, if you're going to sprint, you can really only sprint like once a week. And that's pretty true.

• 9:36Speaker 02

  And if you're advanced, you might only be able to sprint really hard, even less. Like someone like Usain Bolt, he would only run his fastest times in the Olympics because he's going to blow his body apart if he practiced that too much, right? So he has to have a lot of other different training modalities to simulate what he was trying to do in competition. But for the rest of us, I mean, just starting on the ground, starting on your back and then pretend, you know, or, or blow a whistle, or have someone blow a whistle, or, or, you know, clap your hands and then just pop up and just take off as fast as you can. There's so many different ways to do some of these drills that we used to do when we were kids.

• 10:19Speaker 02

  And with your children, with the ages that they're at, I mean, all they would think that is, is just fun. Whereas like, once you start to get to be maybe even over the age of 25 or so, you might go, "All right, let me, let me see if, let me see how I can do on this." Unless you're someone that practices that. So sprints, they tap into the central nervous system. I don't know a ton about how good they are for bone density, but I can't imagine they wouldn't be great for bone density as well. Because of the, you're literally like trying to punch the ground with your foot. There's a lot of misunderstanding with sprinting, but the more that we've learned about it, it's actually like you're punching down the ground as hard as possible.

• 10:58Danny Jones?

  Unless you go too hard. Like David Goggins had all those spider cracks in his shins, right?

• 11:02Speaker 02

  Well, so there's, so he's jogging, he's jogging.

• 11:06Danny Jones?

  He's just jogging.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  He's jogging slash running and sprinting is a little different and, you know, you're bringing up a good point. Like, don't smash your feet into the ground when you're on concrete. Even when we were running today, I just said, "Hey, try to get your feet to be a little lighter." Just because you were in barefoot shoes and yeah, they were sort of, they were sort of thumpy.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  And so, yeah, you do want to kind of be light on your feet, but it's even more complex than that. But it's, you're trying to be springy. But just back to the whole thing on sprints in general is like you, that's going to be the hardest thing to do. Sprints, sprints are going to be the hardest thing to do. Sprints, box jumps, those are going to be things that are really difficult. And we know they're really difficult because I can ask a 60-year-old or 70-year-old or 80-year-old, I can say, "Hey, you know, lay down on this bench and bench press this weight." No problem, they can do it, right? But they, they might not be able to do certain amounts of weight, but they could do the bar or they could do appropriate weight, whatever is appropriate for them. I could also say, "Hey, you know, let's have you squat onto this chair."

• 12:09Speaker 02

  And most likely they can figure out, you know, some have disabilities and so forth. But for the most part, a lot of people are going to be able to try to figure that out. But if I said, "You have to go on this assault bike right here and you have to produce 500, you have to produce 500 watts. I want you to produce 500 watts in five seconds."

• 12:26Danny Jones?

  God damn, that's a lot.

• 12:28Speaker 02

  No chance. They're not gonna be able to, and I just made that up, but you could pick any number, 200, 300. They're gonna probably struggle to do it because they don't have the strength, they don't have the ability to tap into their nervous system. And nervous system is all like, you know, really, really quick explosive movements.

• 12:45Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah, that does something. It does something to you. And then on top of that, like the feeling at the end of the day of just like having your body feel fatigued is so good, especially when you wanna go to bed and like you, you feel accomplished. You feel like you really got something done. You were productive that day, you know?

• 13:04Speaker 02

  It's a regulator, you know, I think, I think it's, I think, um,

• 13:10Speaker 02

  you know, I, I am somebody that struggled like hell in school and I always hated it. And as I've gotten older, I just still can't believe that school is the same way. I still can't believe that kids are kinda locked into school.

• 13:22Danny Jones?

  Dude, it's crazy.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  For so many hours, I mean, you drop your kid off at five years old and you don't see him for like another six hours. Like, I don't understand what's going on, but I think school starts way too early. I think it goes for way too long. Um, it goes on for way too many years. So not only is it too long for the amount of hours that the kids are there, but I understand why it's that way. It's so that parents can like go off and do their normal day. It's kind of a form of daycare and I understand it does feed a lot of kids and there's, there's a lot to look into.

• 13:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 13:54Speaker 02

  If we're gonna change the system, we're gonna F over a lot of people. So we need to be careful if we do change it.

• 14:02Speaker 02

  But to, to, to think that children are gonna be like locked into this,

• 14:08Speaker 02

  in, into this box with these fluorescent lights beaming down on them for hours on end. And they're supposed to get educated that way. They're supposed to learn that way. It's like, man, that's, to me, that's a, an unreasonable proposition to think that even half the class is gonna get much from that. I'd rather see, you know, some form of like going outside or some other activities introduced. And I know that there are some schools or some places that do that. And I also realize that if you grow up in like Minnesota, that you're pretty screwed.

• 14:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  You know, there's certain parts of the country where that is obviously gonna be more difficult. But we're meant to move. We're meant to move. It's part, it's part of our development.

• 14:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Even now, I think if you have a kid and your kid is, you know, eight, nine, 10 years old, and they didn't have, they didn't have an influence in the household about physical culture and even nutrition, I think they're, I think they're missing out on a lot of opportunities. If your kid is 11 and your kid's, you know, 30, 40 pounds overweight, I think they're, they're just, they're in a position where opportunities are going to be less for them. The baseball game that they, the baseball that they want to pick up might be harder. Some of the sports they might want to play might be harder. Even just, you know, fitting in might be more difficult. It just, it brings up a lot of issues and a lot of problems.

• 15:31Danny Jones?

  I don't know what it's like in California, but there's a lot of folks in Florida that are turning to homeschooling with their kids. There's even a place right down the street from here. It's a, it's a sailing center. So it's like a place where kids learn to sail and they have like a whole, like two days of the week, I think, are dedicated for these homeschool co-ops that come there and they bring all the kids there and they go sail for the day. It's like part of their homeschooling week. Like one day they go sailing, another day they go to like some museum or something. So like they get to experience real world shit. That's, I think that's pretty cool. Like I said, but I don't know, I don't know how much that's happening around the country. I just know it's happening more and more in Florida.

• 16:08Danny Jones?

  Have you seen any of that shit in Florida or I mean California?

• 16:11Speaker 02

  I've, I heard a great quote before and it was by someone that we had on our podcast and he said, Matt Burjero is his name. Easy for me to say, but Matt said, who better to teach your children than yourself? Cause most parents are like, well, I don't, I don't know anything about any of that. It's like, well, you could relearn it. Like you already do probably know some of it. You probably know some of the stuff that gets taught in kindergarten. You probably know some of the stuff that gets taught in first grade, maybe second grade, maybe, maybe by the time they get to seventh grade, maybe, maybe they do need like a teacher. Maybe they need someone that's going to be more qualified than you. Not everyone has the same circumstances. Not everyone has the same finances and the same

• 16:56Speaker 02

  money and stuff like that, but there are alternative schools that people can go to. There's, there's other options out there. So I have seen that in California. We have a school out there called Acton Academy and that's where my son went for a year. And I saw some huge changes in him. Now he went-

• 17:14Danny Jones?

  What's great about, what's different? How is that school different?

• 17:16Speaker 02

  Acton Academy is a little bit similar to like a Montessori school.

• 17:19Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  But I basically, so it was during COVID and I don't, I'm not a forcer. I don't force any, I don't force myself to do much of anything. I don't force my kids to do anything. It's just some of my own personal beliefs. I'd, I'd rather present some options and then like, hope that they kind of go that way or boxed ideas, which is sort of forcing and, and have them pick, you know, one of the three or four things that I mentioned. But in this case, I did force my son to go to Acton Academy because it was something I was listening to, it was something I was researching and my son and I have had a lot of communication about school. And he started to really dislike school and he wasn't doing his homework and

• 18:05Speaker 02

  my wife was following his, uh, whatever that app is to follow like their homework and all that stuff. And it was driving her crazy. And so I was like, you need to get rid of that app. I was like, it's invasion of privacy. Like just, she's like, yeah, but he's just a kid and like, I want to keep him on track. And I was like, he's not going to do his homework. He doesn't care. I was like, he already knows the, he already knows it's like fake, like school just doesn't matter.

• 18:30Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 18:30Speaker 02

  The thing that they used to sell us on was that this goes on your permanent record is what they kind of used to say. You know, 11th grade is the most important grade. Like that one goes on and there's no permanent record and no one ever cares about it. Obviously there's some things that you do where you, you know, need to go to college and need to have a degree for certain things, but my son never wanted to pursue any of that. So I went into his room and I said, all right, tomorrow I'm going to take you to Acton Academy and uh- And then I said, I'm gonna come back in your room in like 15 minutes and I want to talk about a little bit more. So then we talked about it a little bit more and he basically said, okay, even though I was forcing him to anyway. And then when we went, I said, okay, now that

• 19:12Speaker 02

  we went, you have to go like three times. Cause I want to see if you like, and then if you like it, then this is where you're gonna go. Because they didn't, they didn't have any rules with masks and vaccines and they just didn't care. They just still had school like normal. And I was like, this will be a great environment rather than him trying to like, do a bunch of work that he really doesn't want to do on a computer.

• 19:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  His first day there, they had, it was all kids. There was no teacher. Um, there's no teacher in the room at all. And it's just, it's just kids, it's just kids talking. And they're talking about these boxed ideas. They, they have, they can talk about, uh, politics, or they could talk about, um, science. These kids were probably, uh, 15 or so.

• 20:03Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 20:03Speaker 02

  Some, some of them were like a little younger because the school, the school wasn't very big. So that was one of the issues with the schools. Like the school is still trying to develop. And, you know, ideally you would have, you know, 10 or so, or 20 or so kids of similar age. And then, but anyway, this school had kind of a mix of kids all the way from six, all the way to, uh, about 17, 18 years old. But yeah, they were just deciding on like what they wanted to talk about. And then this person would, you know, bring up these topics and then they would talk about it, like they'd put it to a vote.

• 20:36Danny Jones?

  So there was like, was there like a, a kid who was kind of like the head honcho or something? Like, was there a pecking order? Or like, no, it was just free for all?

• 20:45Speaker 02

  Not really. Um,

• 20:47Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  It was supposed to be worked out between them. There are, there are teachers, there are people there that work there that will, you know, communicate with you. And if like you get into fights and stuff, obviously they'll, they'll try to rectify some of that and present, uh, some other options, but they're really just there to, uh, just make sure the kids start to get some sort of work done. Then the kids start to pick stuff and then the teacher's like, okay, well, let's maybe work on, how's everybody feel about a project? How about we do a project like this where we can learn about that? Or we can go down the street to this museum that's down the street or?

• 21:21Danny Jones?

  Let's talk about our feelings.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 21:25Danny Jones?

  No one talks about it, but we all know it exists. Toxins are everywhere, in the air, the water, plastics, food packaging, and even cleaning products, even in the stuff that's marketed as healthy. And the real problem isn't in one big exposure, but in a gradual exposure over time, which is why I pay close attention to my glutathione. Specifically, I use Ro's liposomal glutathione. Glutathione is your body's master antioxidant, but stress, poor sleep, alcohol, processed food, and environmental toxins burn through it fast. Glutathione plays a major role in liver detox pathways and helps fight oxidative stress, the stuff that leaves you feeling inflamed, foggy, and rundown. And not all supplements are created equal. A lot gets broken down during digestion. That's why I like Ro. Their liposomal glutathione is designed to protect and improve absorption

• 22:10Danny Jones?

  so your body can actually use it. So if you want a legit daily way to support detox, antioxidants, and overall health, check out Ro Nutrition's liposomal glutathione. Go to rhonutrition.com and use the code Danny for 20% off sitewide. That's R H O nutrition.com for 20% off by using the code Danny.

• 22:30Speaker 03

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• 23:29Speaker 02

  Where I live in Davis is, is. Is kinda like, you know, it's kinda like what you're talking about.

• 23:34Danny Jones?

  It's a college town?

• 23:35Speaker 02

  It is, yeah. UC Davis, yeah.

• 23:37Danny Jones?

  Okay. Cause I I've met a lot of people from Northern California and they're like hardcore conservatives.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's we have, we do have a lot of that there.

• 23:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah, as well as San Diego, I think.

• 23:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 23:49Danny Jones?

  Cause it's a military town.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, even just back to the schooling, you know, what I, what I always just think about is like,

• 23:57Speaker 02

  you don't necessarily need school, but you do need to be educated. And so like, how can we get our kids educated? How can we get our kids? Uh, we want our kids to-

• 24:06Danny Jones?

  You gotta get them in nature, bro. Throw them in the ocean. Give them a surfboard. They're in California. Throw them in the frickin' ocean with a surfboard and then let them catch some waves, dodge some frickin', uh, seals, some sea lions, great white sharks. I think that's, that's the best thing. That'll humble you real quick.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  Well, those are some tough days, right? Lugging the board out there.

• 24:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and the water's like 50 degrees, 40 degrees.

• 24:30Speaker 02

  Learning how to surf and all the time it takes. And I think ultimately, I think what we're looking for from our, you know, people out there that are parents, I think from our children is that they're able to like turn themselves into something. And we sometimes wanna downplay that. We sometimes wanna be like, oh, you don't have to be like necessarily great at anything. But it's actually really nice if they end up being great at something. It's something everyone can get behind if they're-

• 24:54Danny Jones?

  A trophy kid.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  If they're, if they're great at a sport or something like that, then that, then that's fine, but-

• 25:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's the thing too. So, so I grew up surfing and I always wanted my kid to surf. Until, and I, I was, when he was really young, I was constantly trying to bring him to the beach, talk to him about surfing, push, get him to, you know, go out and get, you know, go into some waves on a boogie board or something, just to get used to it or whatever.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  And he's all crying and everything.

• 25:17Danny Jones?

  Another one of my friends, um, who grew up similar to me, he had twins and he was doing the same thing with his kids, but his kids were much older than mine. He, he was like, don't do it. He's like, I was forcing my kid, my one kid to surf his whole life when he was young, went up until he was like six, and now he absolutely hates surfing. Now, because I was trying to force it on him and make him do it. Now he fucking hates it. So it's like, you gotta, you gotta just sort of like loosely guide, guide them where you want them to go.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  I mean, just think about yourself. If you force yourself to do stuff a little too much-

• 25:52Danny Jones?

  I wanna do the opposite of what my parents told me to do.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, right. And even just think about yourself in terms of like when you force yourself to do something. I know there's like this, again, kind of David Goggins thing of like, I hated this, but I still went and did it. And what I say to that is that's actually not true. You actually enjoyed it enough to go do it. Otherwise you wouldn't have done it in the first place. So maybe there's a pain attribute to it, or maybe there's some aspect of it that you didn't necessarily want to put yourself through. But you did like it enough. And that's something for myself that has always worked great for me is to lean into the things that I enjoy. Sometimes that could be hard because you could be somebody that maybe enjoys things that aren't great for you, like kratom, as we were talking about earlier.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  Or a drug or pornography or whatever it might be. It could be something that is a banana peel and that you need to pay attention to. But for the most part, if the things that you like or enjoy are fairly healthy, you think they're good for your mindset. Then I think you lean towards those things as much as you can.

• 27:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the kratom thing is wild. Like I was telling you, I was sort of, I was drinking so much of the kratom that I had to just take a break from it just to see what would happen. And, um, you know, I don't know what's gonna, I never really got like really addicted. Like I know some people have withdrawals. From doing too much kratom. But like I stopped, I felt like maybe like tired for a couple of days, but I never really had any like real issues with it. I was just like, after a couple of days, I didn't really think about it anymore, you know? But I know it's, this stuff, I don't know how strong this stuff is.

• 27:30Speaker 02

  It's pretty strong. White rabbit. It's got, it's got a nice dose, 75 or something.

• 27:34Danny Jones?

  It says total kratom by volume is less than 1% and seven hydroxy.

• 27:43Danny Jones?

  Less than 0.02 milligrams.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the 708 stuff.

• 27:48Danny Jones?

  Total seven hydroxy by volume is less than.

• 27:54Danny Jones?

  0.01

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Tell me how many milligrams?

• 27:58Danny Jones?

  0.001. What does that mean? What's that in English? You're, you're, you're an expert in this stuff, right?

• 28:07Speaker 02

  Uh, not, not really. Um, but it does, it does have, I think at least 25 or 30 milligrams of kratom in there and kratom.

• 28:15Danny Jones?

  Kratom or 7OH?

• 28:17Speaker 02

  Kratom.

• 28:18Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  The amount of 7OH in there is way less. So something that's important about kratom is that there's 7OH in all of, in all kratom. Uh, it's a alkaloid, I believe. And again, I'm not an expert on this stuff. I know last time I said some stuff and then people got all, all upset in the comments. My brother knows, my brother knows a lot.

• 28:37Danny Jones?

  There's a heavy kratom community out there. They're fucking.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:40Danny Jones?

  They're hardcore.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  My brother knows a lot about it, but my brother was saying, hey, I need to come back on the show because he talked about how they banned 7OH here. So 7OH they sometimes will make straight up and that's not straight up 7OH. That's more of a, this is more of a kratom product. So it has 25 or 30 milligrams or so of, of kratom. There just happens to be 7OH in there because it's part of the mitrigen plant, I believe.

• 29:03Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  And so there's a small percentage of 7OH in there. It is believed that 7OH is a little closer related to heroin. And so that's where people get scared and nervous about it, which makes a lot of sense. Uh, but it seems like the 7OH, when you take that alkaloid out and just primarily use that, that it works better for pain and it works better for people that had previous addictions.

• 29:30Danny Jones?

  When you isolate the 7OH by itself.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  When you isolate it out. So there's a lot of weird, crazy stuff with kratom. There's a lot of alkaloids to it. And there's some people right now that are doing research on trying to, so you know, 7OH, they can ban that all they want, but there's so many more alkaloids in this plant. There's, there's going to be other ones. Keep coming, keep coming, keep coming. And they do, just like any other drug, they do pose a danger. They do pose a threat. They, they can be addictive.

• 29:58Danny Jones?

  So if Florida banned 7OH, how come you can still buy this stuff at the store?

• 30:03Speaker 02

  Because it's a little bit complicated because these have such a small percentage of 70H that it's allowed to still go. In California, I don't think they officially passed like a bill or law yet, but they did something where a lot of the kratom companies just said F it and they just pulled, they pulled all their stuff from the shelves of the smoke shops and stuff. But some of the other companies are like, well, we're kind of shady anyway because a lot of the companies are, that's just the way it is. I mean, the kratom business, kratom kava, I'm in it. I have a brand. And it's, it's a little shady because it's unregulated. Supplement industry is unregulated as well, but this is different because,

• 30:50Speaker 02

  I mean, how many people are really overdosing on like vitamin C or creatine? Like, you know, things, things happen. People do overdose on supplements. People might get a vitamin D or vitamin A toxicity or something crazy, but it's, it's very rare and people actually do get messed up on energy drinks.

• 31:10Speaker 02

  People get really messed up on energy drinks where people end up in the hospital and all kinds of, all kinds of different things. But kratom can be a slippery slope and I think, I think you and I are both very fortunate. I, I might have like an addictive personality a little bit to some stuff. Like when I was a kid, I liked video games and when I played a video game, I'd get like determined.

• 31:31Danny Jones?

  I'm addicted to a video game currently. I'm like, it's called Arc Raiders.

• 31:35Speaker 02

  Sick.

• 31:37Danny Jones?

  No, it's, it's, it's insanely.

• 31:39Speaker 02

  You got three kids and a wife. It's perfect.

• 31:40Danny Jones?

  Exactly. I wait till they all go to bed and I'll fucking play that game for an hour. It's driving me crazy.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  But yeah, you know, getting addiction, I have addiction in my family. I lost a brother to it. I lost, basically lost my mother to it. My mother wasn't addicted to drugs, but she was addicted to food. And I lost an uncle from it and I've lost many friends over many different types of drug addictions, but kratom is an interesting one because I don't feel like, oh man, I need, you know, need more kratom. It's, it's just, I like the way that that makes me feel. I like kind of like where it takes me to. And I think that what I've noticed in my own life in general, I can get to most of the spots that I want to get to without a drug.

• 32:25Speaker 02

  It's just easier and quicker to do it with a drug.

• 32:29Speaker 02

  I mean, even strength and stuff like that. I mean, I've always been strong before I ever took steroids. I was strong. I wasn't as strong. They helped me a lot, but I don't have any, I don't have any information or know where I would have been able to take my strength. I would assume it would be less. But, but there's so many other things that go into that equation because when I started steroids at 25, I weighed as much as I do right now, which is about 215 pounds and I got myself all the way up to 330 pounds. And so I did make myself stronger, but I also via steroids made myself bigger. So I think in general, drugs take you to a spot that you normally otherwise maybe can't get to

• 33:13Speaker 02

  and/or they take you there really quick. And with kratom, what you need to be careful of, it's like a shot of dopamine.

• 33:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 33:22Speaker 02

  You know, you can, I mean, I don't want to compare it to cocaine because I don't think it's, I don't think it's as dangerous. But it's getting you there really fast. It's a, I've never tried cocaine, so I don't have a comparison for myself. But it does seem like it's a quick shortcut. And so for me, because I would associate kratom with a workout, I would associate kratom with a podcast, I would associate, and once you start to, you know, Huberman's talked about this before, doubling and tripling up on your dopamine, that's a really, that's not a great place to be. So even just, you know, sitting down, watching your favorite show and eating ice cream and pizza is an example, right? Like, oh, I'm gonna watch this football game and crush a bunch of wings and eat a bunch of pizza and drink a bunch of beer.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  It's like, well, that's a habit that's really costing you a lot. It's because you're, you're multiplying dopamine, uh, which is just not a great thing to do.

• 34:13Danny Jones?

  If you enjoy watching our show on Spotify or YouTube and you want to be more involved, I encourage you to please come check out our Patreon community. Not only does our Patreon community get every episode you see on YouTube, early, fully uncensored and ad free, but we're also doing Patreon exclusive episodes as well as live Q and As. And you can get your personal questions answered by our guests every single week. For me, being able to collaborate and communicate back and forth with our Patreon community every week has been huge. And this is my way of saying thank you for the cost of a cup of coffee a month. Now back to the show. Didn't you say that, um, ever since? Florida did the ban on 708. There's been a lot of drug overdoses or opioid overdoses?

• 34:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe we can look it up, but I believe there's been more overdoses here than previous. So a lot of people are utilizing.

• 35:03Danny Jones?

  Because they can't get 708 anymore?

• 35:07Speaker 02

  Because they can't get 708 anymore. There's more deaths. Yeah, I believe so. I think what's I think what's happening is so years ago with kratom, someone would walk in and they would get they would they would usually get just they would usually get just like kratom pills, capsules, rather. They'd get kratom capsules and the kratom capsules would have like X amount of mitrigen, which would be the whole plant. And the plant is not adulterated. So the plant is not made any more powerful. It's like literally just grind up, grind it up, leaves of mitrigen.

• 35:46Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Nothing added, nothing subtracted, just the natural plant.

• 35:49Speaker 02

  Just stuffed into a capsule, right? That had a certain effect and you would take, you know, three or four, five, some people would even take maybe six and my brother would, my brother has a lot of chronic pain. So he would take as many as like 10 of those. But that only has such an impact and it only hits you a certain way. It takes a lot longer than a liquid form that's adulterated. That's, you know, again, these are so 25 milligram. So to give you an example, 25 milligrams of this, which is in this.

• 36:20Danny Jones?

  So one can of this?

• 36:22Speaker 02

  White rabbit. Yeah. And this whole thing, there's 25 milligrams in a capsule. There could be about 500 milligrams.

• 36:29Danny Jones?

  In one capsule?

• 36:30Speaker 02

  In one capsule, there could be 500 milligrams.

• 36:32Danny Jones?

  And your brother was taking 10 capsules?

• 36:34Speaker 02

  Right. My brother was taking five grams of kratom, but again,

• 36:37Danny Jones?

  God!

• 36:38Speaker 02

  But again, it's whole leaf kratom. So it's way different. So you can't compare the two.

• 36:45Danny Jones?

  What's the difference? Why? So how is this?

• 36:47Speaker 02

  This is just way, this is.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  This is prob- so this is probably the equivalent of, I don't know what the math would be, but this is probably the equivalent of like four or five grams.

• 36:59Danny Jones?

  What?

• 37:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, about, maybe three or four grams, probably the equivalent of three or four grams of straight kratom. You can see how we're like really rolling the dice here now, right? Because as you make it more and more powerful, you are potentially, potentially causing more problems, more addictive behavior. Now, 7OH being, representing a tiny amount, so we'll do this again, right? So, 7OH representing a tiny amount of this. If we just extract that and have that in a pill, which is common, that'll send you to the moon and back again even faster than that will.

• 37:36Danny Jones?

  See, these don't do much for me. They just give me like a mellow, it's a, I describe it as like a a mood lifter. It just elevates my mood a little bit. That's really it.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  It's not insanely powerful. It's not, that amount of kratom is not, it's not nuts. It's not, it's like, they, they, they knew what they were doing when they put that one together. And they said, let's just give people, let's just give people a touch of this. Just like, you know, maybe in Gorilla Mind or maybe some of the products that are out there. Like, okay, let's get, you know, synergy going and let's get a little bit of caffeine and give people like a little bit of a nice buzz. But let's not have them tripping out and it's not, you know, 400 or 300 milligrams of caffeine or whatever it might be.

• 38:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  Again, the 7OH, 7OH in a capsule,

• 38:28Speaker 02

  I have a bunch of friends that use that. They use it too often. They seem to be addicted to it. It's still safer than 7OH that comes in a liquid. Because there's now like 7OH shots.

• 38:41Danny Jones?

  Wow, really?

• 38:42Speaker 02

  And I took a shot of one from a smoke shop. My brother was telling me about 7OH and I didn't know, I didn't know he's talking about 7OH as a, in pill form. 7OH in pill form is much easier to distribute the right amount of milligrams.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Now, because I know better, or at least I thought I knew better, I'm like, and I don't have any experience with this drug, even though it is kratom, I'm like, I'm gonna take a tiny sip of this. So I took a tiny sip of it. And then I was going to record a bunch of stuff for that day. And I'm going to the bathroom, I get up from taking a dump, and I'm just like, I start, my body's like, kind of shaking, almost like an overload of like caffeine, you know, but but a little bit different. Then I go to put my socks on and my shoes on. Now my hands are like, they're shaking, like noticeably shaking, not just, you know, sometimes you take a lot of caffeine and your hand might twitch a tiny bit, right? This was like, I was, my body was like trembling,

• 39:47Speaker 02

  I started to kind of feel cold. So I put my socks on, I put my shoes on. And I was going to tell my wife about it, but my wife was working out with her friends. So I was like, all right, well, I think I can drive. So I drive myself to the gym.

• 40:04Danny Jones?

  Okay, let's get behind some heavy machinery.

• 40:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So I drive myself to the gym, trying to make sure I'm okay, like my eyes seem like they're okay, my everything seems to be okay. Otherwise, I'm just a little shaky. And I get to the gym and I tell my camera guy, I'm like, dude, I was like, you might, I was like, I don't know what to do. I was like, you might have to call 911. I was like, the only thing that makes sense to me is for me to just work out and pretend that nothing happened because I think I need to like, work this out of my body.

• 40:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:30Speaker 02

  And so I go through the workout and maybe about a half an hour goes by and finally it just passes. I was like, holy crap, I'm like, what the hell is that stuff? So I called my brother and we went back and forth on it. He's like, he's like, that's a, that's crazy response that you had that response from such a small amount of it. And I was like, well, I'll never touch it again. So I did, you know, I had some sort of weird reaction to it. So that's my experience. I only had one experience with 70H and whatever the liquid one was that I took was just way too powerful. So people.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  I mean, I like what Huberman says. Huberman just says, hey, just don't ever try it.

• 41:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 41:06Speaker 02

  Just don't ever try kratom. It's, it's again, even though I have a company that sells kratom.

• 41:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 41:11Speaker 02

  I would tell people the same thing.

• 41:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  Cause you can get yourself stuck and you can get yourself in a weird situation. It's not for everybody. When people call, our customer service always tells them, they say, hey, is this addictive? We're like, yep. It sure is. It might not be for you.

• 41:26Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah, it's a slip. It can be a slippery slope, but the scariest part is you don't really remember where you were. Once you get so far down the rabbit hole with any kind of drug or any kind of supplement or whatever. And you've been taking it for a month, drinking it for a month, whatever that, whatever that thing is. And like, it's hard to like, remember what your baseline was before that. You're like, this is like your new normal. Right? So like, that's where it gets really squirrely.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  Just have, start to have it all the time. And then you kind of, you try to justify it by comparing it to other things.

• 41:58Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  And sometimes the comparisons aren't great. Like everyone tries to always compare everything back to caffeine, but it's like, I mean, caffeine, okay, caffeine maybe has some negative side effects. Like there's, there is research that shows it could negatively impact your sleep, even if you're having coffee

• 42:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  super early in the day. It messes with your HPA axis and there's all those other.

• 42:20Danny Jones?

  That's how I would justify the kratom.

• 42:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 42:22Danny Jones?

  That's what I would say. I would say, I would say, how, how bad is this kratom? All right. I, I drink one a day and I, I, yes, I'm addicted to it, but I'm also addicted to coffee. I can't remember the last time I had to have a cup of fucking coffee. Right? Like, there's not, I can't remember a day in the last 15 years, I haven't had a cup of coffee in the morning or two cups of coffee in the morning. What I did recently, as I stopped, I got a,

• 42:48Danny Jones?

  I kicked my fucking coffee maker to the curb and I got this French press with no plastic in it. It's all metal.

• 42:56Speaker 02

  Oh, nice.

• 42:57Danny Jones?

  So like, I started brewing my coffee in this French press. Dude, the taste is so much different. It's night and day.

• 43:03Speaker 02

  That's great.

• 43:03Danny Jones?

  It tastes so much smoother and cleaner. Doesn't have any of like the acidic-y. Fucking weird taste that my coffee maker made my coffee. I was like, I was astonished by it. I was like, this is what coffee is supposed to taste like.

• 43:16Speaker 02

  That's great.

• 43:16Danny Jones?

  And it probably had to do with all the fucking plastic and bullshit that was in the coffee maker.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  That's true. And I think, you know, I think coffee can be healthy to a certain extent. I think it's got polyphenols in it and stuff like that. And people always talk about green tea and green tea has caffeine in it too. So I don't think caffeine is like this compound that we need to like, you know, really watch out for. But look at the line at Starbucks, you know, like I was just going through a bunch of different airports and the line at Starbucks is still just as long as it's always been. People are very addicted and I think it's something everyone should just give some thought to. It's not like, hey, you know, we're trying to judge everybody for it, but.

• 43:52Danny Jones?

  Hold on, look at a quick break. There's a guy at my front door. We're back. All right. What'd you find, Steve?

• 43:58Speaker 05

  Okay, so there has been a decrease in.

• 44:02Danny Jones?

  Okay, yeah, this is saying a total 14% decrease in 2024 of opioid caused deaths, dropping 32% in fentanyl caused deaths, dropping 35%. These results highlight a sustained downward trend in drug related deaths since peaking in 2021, underscoring the state's continued success and safeguarding the health and safety of its citizens.

• 44:24Speaker 02

  I wonder if they're doing something with those compounds to make that less, to make that happen less.

• 44:31Danny Jones?

  I can't imagine there's a lot of people dying from fucking 70H.

• 44:35Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know about that.

• 44:37Danny Jones?

  I didn't know. I didn't know that it was fatal like that. I didn't know that you could actually. Okay, kratom is linked to six LA deaths? Okay, now, now.

• 44:47Speaker 05

  They're saying kratom, but they're lumping it in with 70H. It's the 70H that's doing it.

• 44:52Danny Jones?

  Okay, ask, ask your AI or whatever, how many total kratom deaths have happened?

• 45:02Speaker 02

  Sometimes the kratom deaths are from people trying to drink powdered kratom.

• 45:08Danny Jones?

  I seen, I saw a guy do that on this podcast right before he started. He fucking took a he, a handful or like a.

• 45:15Danny Jones?

  Like a container full of it and dried, threw it in his mouth and then washed it down with water.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  So it's like cinnamon. So it can choke you to death. And there's been people that have died from that, which is.

• 45:24Danny Jones?

  Say, how many kratom deaths have there been in the US since 2023?

• 45:30Speaker 02

  This is all good to know. It's good for people to know.

• 45:33Danny Jones?

  National estimates from 2025, okay, from 2015 to 2025, published March 2020, oh, just just published. Identified 233 deaths associated with kratom exposure between 2015 and 2025. Okay. Now do the same search with caffeine related deaths. While deaths are rare, adverse reactions have increased significantly since 2023.

• 46:02Danny Jones?

  It's not giving us a real straightforward answer like the kratom one was. The kratom one was straightforward. 233. This one is like all over the place and tons of nuance. Weird.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  So how do you think, for you, how do you think you got maybe like, you know, like, when did you realize you were in over your head, maybe with kratom?

• 46:20Danny Jones?

  Uh, when I realized I was just thinking about it, when I shouldn't be thinking about it.

• 46:24Speaker 02

  Like you wake up and you're like, oh.

• 46:25Danny Jones?

  Like I wake up, I drink a cup of coffee and I'd be like, hmm, am I gonna drink a kratom drink today? Could I use one today? Like, I know, like, when it's taking up, like, mental thought processing time, that's probably a problem. If I'm like trying to pre-plan my day, pre-plan whether I'm gonna have a fucking kratom energy drink, like, I know it's a problem. So that's when I had to stop. And now I don't think about it at all anymore.

• 46:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, I think you have to, you know, I think like, you know, one of the signs of addiction is that it's like, uh, starting to disrupt your life, it's starting to interfere. You know, they say like, have you ever been late to work or like those kind of questions, you know? And the answers to some of those are probably no. So that's like, it just justifies you to take it even more.

• 47:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  And the same thing with caffeine, because you could be like, well, I kind of think about caffeine kind of a lot, too. I kind of think about these zen pouches a bunch, too. But the main thing is like, hey, let's just try not to get addicted to like too many things. If, if coffee's already in the mix, or caffeine, however you want to look at it, if that's already in the mix, then. Let's try not to get a, you know, six or seven other things.

• 47:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 47:26Speaker 02

  To be addicted to as well.

• 47:28Danny Jones?

  Well, I'm, I'm really skeptical about the things that like really get popular. You know, like the Zen pouches, the nicotine pouches, like those just burst onto the scene and every kid is taking nicotine pouches or using, doing those nicotine vape things.

• 47:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 47:44Danny Jones?

  And like, I'm super skeptical of that shit. Like what are going to be the long-term?

• 47:50Speaker 02

  Right.

• 47:50Danny Jones?

  Domino effects of these caffeine pouches everyone's taking, right? And is it just, I mean nicotine pouches? And is it just nicotine in there? Or like, is there other weird shit in there? You know, like?

• 48:02Danny Jones?

  And I think the same thing with the GLP-1 peptides.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:06Danny Jones?

  Like, you know, like all these people that are on that, it's insane how many people are just hopping on these GLP-1s and just looking like a melted candlestick, as you say.

• 48:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a, like a biological tax that you pay for everything. If you're trying to do things super fast.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  There, so there's some people in my circle, there's some people I'm friends with that they,

• 48:31Speaker 02

  they almost need the medication, otherwise they, like, like it's clear that they need the medication. It's clear that they need it. They're, they're obese and they,

• 48:45Speaker 02

  they, they can't figure out how to get along almost without it. And I've seen some of these people use the drug, lose the weight successfully. And then for some reason, because self sabotage is kind of part of the whole thing for them. They discontinue the drug and they go back to a lot of their regular habits and they gain the weight back. There's people that are, one of the problems with some of these GLP drugs, I mean, it's, it's just something that people should understand before they ever take them. Is that the rebound can be catastrophic. Because you, you're not only, you're not only losing weight, but you're also losing muscle.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  So if you could picture, let's say someone had this great experience with it. They're like, man, I lost like 50 pounds. But let's say that they lost like six pounds of muscle in that timeframe as well. Well, it might not seem like that big of a deal to someone that was like, you know, maybe 350 pounds. Now they're 300. They might not really, you know, they might not really care that they lost six pounds, but six pounds of muscle, that muscle tissue is really important for your, to help regulate your glucose. It's also really helpful to your metabolism in general because your muscle mass is going to burn a little bit more calories than your fat mass will, even though your fat mass can contribute to overall caloric burn too,

• 50:06Speaker 02

  because you're just heavier. So I think when somebody, when somebody comes off the drug, they're really susceptible to rebound because the body recomp that they went through wasn't significant enough. Like if a bodybuilder or some of these fitness girls and some of these bikini girls and stuff like that, they'll do things that are called, and the reason why I'm thinking about girls in this context is because they usually have a harder time putting on muscle mass. And a girl, and I've seen videos of girls, they're like, hey, I used to weigh 180, but check this out. Now, now I weigh 180. And the one, and the 180 that they look in the second video, they look incredible.

• 50:51Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 50:52Speaker 02

  Normally you wouldn't think that it sounds, it sounds like that's maybe not a weight that most females would want to weigh. But after females see the video of how this girl was like squatting and deadlifting and training and eating and how they recomp their body, then people are like, oh.

• 51:08Danny Jones?

  Traded muscle, traded fat for muscle.

• 51:10Speaker 02

  Right. They, they, right. In their, in their recomp mission, they lost body fat and gained muscle mass.

• 51:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  Now, trying to do this, trying to do both at the same time is really difficult. So what a bodybuilder will do, or somebody that's going to do a recomp will do, is they'll normally spend some time gaining some weight, which most people don't want to do. Most people don't want to, and you wouldn't recommend this to someone that's obese necessarily, but in general, it's, it's a good idea for people to go through these different periods so that they can still hold a pretty significant amount of weight, be actually functionally strong and not be withered down to looking like a melted candle.

• 51:52Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah. How long have they, do you know how long that we, they've been doing studies on the GLP-1 stuff?

• 51:59Speaker 02

  These drugs have been around for like 20 years, I think.

• 52:03Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 52:03Speaker 02

  Um, I don't know specifically about like Ozempic necessarily, but

• 52:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 52:07Speaker 02

  Um, these GLP-1 drugs and other drugs like it have been around for a long time.

• 52:12Danny Jones?

  So many different like, uh, brands other than Ozempic. There's another one that I heard about recently called Retta. Retta something?

• 52:20Speaker 02

  Retta True Tide.

• 52:21Danny Jones?

  Retta True Tide, yeah.

• 52:22Speaker 02

  Retta True Tide represents a what's called, what's referred to as a triple agonist. So they believe it has, uh, three different properties that are assisting with weight loss. Um, one I believe is it's helping with insulin resistance. The other one I believe it's helping with your appetite. And then the third one is, uh, glucagon, which is supposedly, I think, helping a little bit with fat loss in the background. So

• 52:49Speaker 02

  Uh, Ozempic and those other drugs, they don't have components to them that necessarily have anything to do with losing body fat. They also don't have anything to do with, um, holding or retaining muscle mass, nor do they have anything in them that would.

• 53:05Speaker 02

  They don't have compounds in them that are directly responsible for people losing muscle mass. What they have in them is they have compounds in them that are directly responsible for you eating way less. Something that we have to keep in mind with people that are obese is people that are obese are nutrient deficient.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  They are in a macro nutrient surplus, but a lot of times they're in a micronutrient. They have micronutrient deficiency. Um, they also oftentimes are protein deficient. So they're not consuming enough protein.

• 53:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 53:41Speaker 02

  Again, if we go back to the recomp, if you recomp your macros.

• 53:43Danny Jones?

  They're just eating garbage.

• 53:45Speaker 02

  They're just eating trash.

• 53:46Danny Jones?

  Sugar and carbs.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  They're eating. They're eating fat. They're eating a lot of fat and they're eating a lot of carbohydrates.

• 53:52Danny Jones?

  Aren't they eating a lot of fat?

• 53:54Speaker 02

  People are eating a lot of fat.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  Fat is, is probably the fat. If you were to point the finger at one thing, if you could point the finger at one thing, it would be fat.

• 54:04Danny Jones?

  Really? Like fat? Like you're getting a steak?

• 54:06Speaker 02

  Yes. Because go, go to a restaurant and try to eat, try to eat any, try to eat anything with a reasonable amount of fat in it. It is nearly impossible. So you can go on a low carb diet and you can have your fat calories be a little higher than uh, somebody that's uh, somebody that's, you know, consuming more carbohydrate and stuff like that, but it is really hard to navigate a menu anywhere. And think about, you know, most people are, they're using DoorDash. Most people are going to restaurants. Most people like, most people never touch their oven. Most people, you know, they might use their stove top. They might use their barbecue, but they're not really cooking that much. They're not cooking up like chicken and steak and

• 54:50Speaker 02

  they don't have options in the fridge that are like, you know, ready to go. I mean, I just was on Gabrielle Lyons podcast and uh, she's like, hey, what do we want for dinner? I was like, oh, it'd be great to get like some steak or some salmon or something like that. And she just had it sit in her fridge. Already cooked up, you know, a couple of pounds of it each. And we got some rice and we just threw everything together and she had some vegetables.

• 55:11Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 55:12Speaker 02

  And we just, and not everyone can afford to, to do that, to that level.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  But uh, back to the point is like, if people could figure out a way to lean out their foods, lean out their meats, they would be much leaner. I think that people don't understand that even 93.7 lean ground beef has, per pound, has 32 grams of fat. Someone might be like, well, so what? 32 grams of fat isn't that much. Well,

• 55:42Speaker 02

  It might not be that, it might not be a crazy amount, but what about when you start to throw some cheese on there? What if you've mixed in an egg or, you know, what if you start to like throw in some other stuff? By the end of the day, you end up, and most people aren't eating 93.7 lean ground beef. Most people are eating like 80, 20 lean ground beef and that has, that has double. So now you're talking about 64 grams of fat and you're talking about flipping the fat calories from the protein. And we want to go the other way. We want to, we want to flip, have the protein number high or higher or as high as the fat. We don't want that protein number to be low with the fats.

• 56:17Danny Jones?

  Right. I thought, I thought what was the biggest cause of obesity was like eating pasta and shit and bread all the time. So everyone I know that's like really like out of shape and unhealthy and overweight, they just eat tons of pasta and bread.

• 56:30Speaker 02

  You can crush pasta and bread. You could crush pasta and bread. Well, so there is something that that's called de novo lipogenesis, which is your body turning carbohydrates into fat. So it can happen, but that's in a caloric surplus, but you would get to that caloric surplus most likely with fat. Because getting to a caloric surplus with protein is, getting to a caloric surplus with protein is almost impossible. Getting to a caloric surplus with carbohydrates is more manageable, especially if you drink a bunch of juice and things like that. But you still need fat in there probably to really push you over the edge.

• 57:09Speaker 02

  So if we were to take, if I made some chicken breast and made some rice and chopped it all up and threw in a bowl, you'd be like, hey, that tasted pretty good. If I throw some teriyaki sauce on there and how it tastes even better, right? Teriyaki sauce has a little sugar, a little syrupy type of stuff and makes it, makes it a little bit more palatable. You'd be like, oh, that was pretty good. But if I made it, if I started with chicken thighs instead of chicken breast, like dude, that was unbelievable. Like that was amazing. So it's, it's, it's, it's not, it's, it's not a good idea just to label it down to one thing. It's not a good idea for me to sit here and be like, fat's the problem.

• 57:45Danny Jones?

  What about the fat that you get from like avocados and olive oils and shit?

• 57:52Speaker 02

  It's all, it's all calorically dense. So as long as you're just aware that they're calorically dense. It's not like, you don't, it's not like it's a freebie.

• 58:01Danny Jones?

  Wasn't that fucking guy, the Johnson guy who wants to live forever? Wasn't that dude saying like, he just chugs olive oil?

• 58:09Speaker 02

  Well, he sells olive oil.

• 58:10Danny Jones?

  Oh, he sells olive oil?

• 58:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:12Danny Jones?

  Okay. He was also in the Epstein files. He's innocent. It's most likely he's innocent. There was like one.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  He's saying, he, that, you know, he seemed like an okay guy. I like the experiments and stuff that he's doing.

• 58:26Speaker 02

  There, there's been a lot of people who have talked about olive oil over the years, but like, I don't, I don't think that we should be consuming oil, period. I just don't think oil's a good idea.

• 58:35Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 58:36Speaker 02

  Like, what do we need?

• 58:36Danny Jones?

  You don't think olive oil's great? I thought everyone, I thought it was like consensus that olive oil's like amazing for you.

• 58:41Speaker 02

  I don't think that, I'm not saying that olive oil's bad. I just don't really think that we really need much oil in our diet. So yeah, olive oil, sure. Like have some here and there. If you want to be able to make it through eating some vegetables and throwing some olive oil on there makes it a little bit better. Then go for it. Yeah. Olive oil does have some monounsaturated fats in it that are great. Uh, it also has polyphenols in it that are great.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  But what's, what's, what's, uh, not a deficiency in most people's diet is fat. They're already consuming a lot of fat. So I would agree with you a hundred percent and say, yeah, let's trade out some of those crappy fats that you're probably eating for otherwise better fats. Because I think that choices, fat, you know, your, your food choices. That's always been my belief that your food choices are number one. Um, but I also think that when it comes to, I hear Rogan all the time talking about pasta. And I'm like, man, I want to get back on the show because I want to talk to him about, you can crush pasta all day.

• 59:41Danny Jones?

  You can.

• 59:42Speaker 02

  You can crush pasta all day. It's just that you're going to have to make it lower fat. So it's not going to be as good. There's going to be some.

• 59:49Danny Jones?

  How do you make pasta lower fat?

• 59:51Speaker 02

  I make pasta like very, very low fat all the time. And the way that I do it is I usually use 93 seven lean ground beef. And I usually, usually use, uh, because you usually have pasta with something, right? You don't just eat the pasta by itself. But pasta doesn't have any fat in it in the first place.

• 1:00:06Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  Um, now pasta might have other shit in it where people are like, what about?

• 1:00:10Danny Jones?

  Flour, bro.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  What about the glyphosate?

• 1:00:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:15Speaker 02

  There's definitely the jury still out on glyphosate. There needs to be more information. I do think that that has a negative impact on us. Flour, maybe not as much, but it's, this is just my, these are just some of my beliefs. I think that you can crush, like, what would the difference be between pasta and rice, other than the fact, okay, this is flour versus, you know, rice maybe being like more natural or something, but they're both carbohydrates.

• 1:00:43Danny Jones?

  There's certainly something about pasta that makes me feel like I got hit by a truck after I ate it, after I eat it. It's here. When I go to like another country and do it, I don't feel like that.

• 1:00:53Speaker 02

  I know a lot of people have reported that, and I would be interested to see if they felt the same way if they had pasta at my house, because I don't cook it with as much fat. I think that's the problem. I think, I'm Italian too, just like Rogan, and my grandma made, you know, these awesome, you know, meatballs with sauce and, and we'd make this amazing pasta. And the sauce, you know, is red, it's like bright red, but it would turn like orange, because it had all that oily fat in there from the meatballs and from the, whatever the heck else she threw in there. And to me, that's, that's what gets you. It's a combination. So you could say the same thing about ice cream. Say, man, if I eat like a big bowl of ice cream, I'm friggin' done.

• 1:01:36Speaker 02

  Well, you're done from ice cream because it has carbs and fats in it. You're done from pasta because it has carbs and fats in it. So as soon as you, as soon as you're able to eliminate some of the main perpetrators of going over your calories for each day, even though I don't love the calorie equation, but it is, it is a thing. It is like an important metric to kind of have there. And, you know, like if you were to consume a reasonable amount. So the other thing that happens is if I pull the fat out of food.

• 1:02:07Speaker 02

  You're maybe not going to be as satisfied as you normally are, but you'll be satiated and I'll say, hey, you want another bowl? And you'll be like, nah. Because it's not like insanely delicious. And I know that that pulls some of the reward out of it.

• 1:02:21Danny Jones?

  If you pulled the fat out.

• 1:02:22Speaker 02

  If I pull the fat out, it doesn't have the same, it's not going to taste as good. Which is actually like, sometimes the goal is to make things.

• 1:02:31Danny Jones?

  How much fat is there in Doritos?

• 1:02:34Speaker 02

  Oh, it's disgusting. It's through the roof. I mean, start to look some stuff up. Look up Snickers.

• 1:02:38Danny Jones?

  I want to know how much fat is in a bag of Doritos. What's the fat contents?

• 1:02:41Speaker 02

  So you, so you can't, you can't make, they wouldn't be able to figure out a way to make, they wouldn't be able to figure out a way to make Doritos have more calories come from carbohydrates than it does have calories from fat. Even if you were to dump a box of sugar on it, even if you dump water and sugar, it would still, it would still end up having.

• 1:03:03Danny Jones?

  A small bag is eight grams total, one gram saturated.

• 1:03:08Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  Yep. And these things that just add up and eight grams of fat. So what? That's not a huge deal, right?

• 1:03:14Danny Jones?

  Is that? I don't know. What? I don't know if it is or not.

• 1:03:15Speaker 02

  If you're paying attention, like, you know, eight grams.

• 1:03:18Danny Jones?

  Oh, so by weight, a regular Dorito is approximately 28 to 29% fat with one gram saturated fat.

• 1:03:28Speaker 02

  It's.

• 1:03:29Danny Jones?

  That's bonkers.

• 1:03:30Speaker 02

  The amount of, what's the, what's the macros? Can you find the macros? So fat grams eight, and you got 20 grams of carbs, but you got to remember that fat yields about nine calories per gram, right?

• 1:03:44Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 1:03:46Speaker 02

  So yeah, it's the fat that's really got us.

• 1:03:51Speaker 02

  Again, if you, if people, people that are listening, people that want to make some changes, I mean, that'd be my first. Obviously, you know, cut back on like just bullshit eating, you know? Eating, eating like a kid and, and.

• 1:04:03Danny Jones?

  Eating out. Cook at home.

• 1:04:05Speaker 02

  Cook at home.

• 1:04:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  But again, what is cooking at home going to do? It's just going to pull the fat out of your food. When you go to a restaurant, I've been behind the scenes at really fancy restaurants. I've actually like cooked with chefs and seen what they do. They put so much oil on everything. Your vegetables, I mean, they put oil on, they don't know how to make stuff. They almost don't know how to make stuff at all without dumping a bunch of oil on stuff and they're usually using shitty oil.

• 1:04:31Danny Jones?

  Yes. Yeah. No, I used to work at a pizza shop, dude. I know, I know what happens behind the scenes. It's not good. And the deep fryers, you know, who knows what kind of, and they don't, not only do they use shitty oil on all the deep fryers, but they never, they replace it like once a, a week maybe.

• 1:04:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:04:46Danny Jones?

  So the oil is fucking nasty, dude.

• 1:04:49Speaker 02

  I think people need to, you know, when you have a kid, you're trying to like childproof your home. I think you need to like defat your house, defat your life. You need to figure out a way. I say this pretty often, like put a kettlebell in your living room. Now, it doesn't mean like you never, you need to have an actual kettlebell in your living room, but it just means have good access to equipment, to things that you, to things that you're setting out to try to actually do, like actually follow through and do them.

• 1:05:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  You're going to end up with a lot of fatigue from making decisions and making choices and pulling something out of your garage, your jump rope or whatever it is. It's just easier to have your jump rope on your back porch. And that way, okay, I go out and I jump rope. Oh, it's raining today. I'm gonna go back inside and mess around with the kettlebell or something, you know, you have all these choices and options around you. And then same thing with your, with your food choices, like try to have, it's not that hard to, it feels like it's really hard. And when you're not used to it, it can be really challenging.

• 1:05:51Danny Jones?

  And Seema said his whole house is like a gym, like a gymnasium. He says he's got rings all throughout his house that he gets around. Have you seen it?

• 1:05:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, he does. He does.

• 1:06:02Danny Jones?

  He's a freak.

• 1:06:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, he does. He does. And, you know, he and I love all this stuff. So,

• 1:06:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  You know, we're gonna, we're gonna take some things to the extreme.

• 1:06:13Speaker 02

  But having some lean meat in your, in your freezer, like, it's not hard to just pull some lean meat out in the morning, let it thaw out, come back home later and cook it up. Like, it's, it's easy. And I find that the foods taste really good. So, yeah, fat is something that it's, you know, I'm a keto person, like, originally, like, that's, that's where I've, that's where I lost a lot of weight was through some keto dieting. But I learned quickly that it was still wise for me to pay attention to the overall amount of fats I was consuming. So, what I usually try to recommend for most people to try to do is, I think the average person has like 160 or 180 grams of fat in a day or something like that. So, just try to go under 100.

• 1:06:57Danny Jones?

  Have you ever tried to go multiple days with no food?

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've done a five day fast before. Yeah.

• 1:07:03Danny Jones?

  What'd you think?

• 1:07:05Speaker 02

  Uh, maybe just like, uh, maybe unnecessary.

• 1:07:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:09Speaker 02

  You know, like,

• 1:07:11Danny Jones?

  I think it's a good exercise. I think it's a good discipline exercise. And I think it's, uh, I think it's probably really good for your mind and, and your body. I think it's good for your body, too. I mean, I think, like, put it, giving your digestive system the break every once in a while, because you're constantly digesting shit, you know, like, to give it a five day break is probably a really good reset.

• 1:07:33Speaker 02

  I think it can be. I mean, I think that, again, I think from a mental standpoint, it's probably not a bad idea. I would say that, um,

• 1:07:41Danny Jones?

  I can imagine if you were able to give your heart, like, a week reset, just let your heart rest and you can stay alive. You know what I mean?

• 1:07:48Speaker 02

  I, I think that maybe if someone's compromised, it might have a better impact.

• 1:07:52Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:07:53Speaker 02

  But I think in general, my brother said this a long time ago about some people that we were taught, we were talking about all these, like, influencer people, and we were talking about these people that, uh, you know, um, these people that, uh,

• 1:08:06Speaker 02

  Do all these hacks biohacking and all these things. And my brother's like, they don't really have an advantage over anybody else. And I was like, wow, that's like the most profound shit you've ever said in your life because you're right. What advantage does somebody have by pulling a bunch of blood out of their system and then, and then holding up a bag of gunk? The verdict's still out. We don't know what that does. We don't know, we don't know what these GLP-1 drugs are doing. Seems like it's making people healthier. It is having a fairly positive impact on people's blood work. There are negative ramifications of people losing some bone density. There's people are losing weight too fast. Some of these things you keep in mind, they happen with fat, fast weight loss typically anyway.

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  But that's the stuff that I look at. Like I do a lot of things. I don't know if I necessarily have a big advantage over somebody that really doesn't do anything other than small practices of just some movement and not overeating.

• 1:09:05Danny Jones?

  I heard that those GLP drugs, one of the biggest things they do is reduce overall desire. And that's what's making people not eat because they just don't have that, that desire, that hunger.

• 1:09:16Speaker 02

  It can wipe out the reward system a bit. I think the thing to keep in mind.

• 1:09:20Danny Jones?

  Can you look into that, Steve?

• 1:09:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think, I think the thing to keep in mind there is that. And this, this is all great. You know, we were, we were just looking up the stuff on kratom. It looked like maybe I had some stuff wrong and then we, we showed some other stats and you and I are talking about potentially being addicted to it and stuff like that. I think this is all good. Like let's get all this stuff out of the table. Let's try to be truthful and transparent with these things as best we can, but with these, uh, these GLP-1 drugs. Most of the research that's coming out is on people that are taking like full dosages. So it's with people that are taking large amounts. I'm not saying that that information doesn't matter. What I'm saying is that for people that we might know

• 1:10:05Speaker 02

  that are utilizing these drugs to lose a couple of pounds or using these drugs for other reasons. Maybe they're not going to have the same negative sides because maybe they won't take as much. Just like we could say the same thing about testosterone. You know, you were mentioned having some concerns of having some negative side effects of taking the amounts of testosterone that someone would take for TRT.

• 1:10:25Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:10:26Speaker 02

  And I would say like, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that it's like perfectly safe. Like that doesn't make any sense, but.

• 1:10:33Speaker 02

  It to to think that it to think that it's

• 1:10:39Speaker 02

  it's too low of a dosage for me to say the opposite. It's too low of a dosage for me to be like, oh, my God, you do have like some serious concerns with that. Like, you shouldn't really be paying attention to that. And I think the same thing with these GLP-1 drugs, the more that you take than them, obviously, the more negative.

• 1:10:55Danny Jones?

  Steve, what did you search for to get this?

• 1:10:58Speaker 02

  Uh, what does it do?

• 1:11:01Danny Jones?

  No, type in, type in GLP-1's, uh, reduced desire.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  Well, they showed that it reduced desire and they think it might cause divorce.

• 1:11:18Speaker 02

  Because some people are experiencing, uh, less desire for sex and stuff like that.

• 1:11:23Danny Jones?

  GLP-1 receptor agonist like Ozempic can reduce desire for food, addictive substances, and sometimes sex by acting on the brain's reward circuit, specifically reducing dopamine-driven wanting and food, quote, food noise, whatever the fuck that is. By altering serotonin levels and influencing reward-seeking behaviors, they can decrease cravings for food, alcohol, nicotine, and sometimes sexual desire, often described as a generalized dampening of impulsive cravings. That's interesting.

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  Reducing dopamine. So, so maybe if we take these GLP-1 drugs, but we also...

• 1:12:01Danny Jones?

  See, that's where my conspiracy brain goes wild. Like, is the government just trying to, like, dampen us? But no, but that doesn't really make sense, though, because, because look at phones. These are the ultimate, like, dopamine slot machines ever.

• 1:12:13Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah, I know.

• 1:12:15Danny Jones?

  That's why, you know, it's like, we're stuck to these things because we're constantly getting dopamine from swiping up and down. So if these things are decreasing dopamine, that would be like, if you wanted to pacify society, that's the opposite of what you would do.

• 1:12:30Danny Jones?

  So.

• 1:12:30Speaker 02

  I think all we have to do for that is throw some kratom back in the mix.

• 1:12:36Danny Jones?

  Let's just give him something else.

• 1:12:37Speaker 02

  And then, and then we're gonna be.

• 1:12:38Danny Jones?

  Keep him on that hamster wheel.

• 1:12:40Speaker 02

  Yep.

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• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  Let's see, my brother gave us a little report back about, oh, he gave me like kind of a long one.

• 1:13:19Danny Jones?

  What did he say?

• 1:13:19Speaker 02

  It seems like you're a better reader than me. He might be able to crank through that.

• 1:13:23Danny Jones?

  What did you ask him?

• 1:13:23Speaker 02

  I asked him about the 708 stuff.

• 1:13:27Danny Jones?

  It's a crazy story because the FDA claims it's a victory that banned it in Florida and people would get on Suboxone to get off. But in the past two years, Suboxone prescriptions have not risen at all. The other drug Narcan is a big help in saving people, but it only saves you in the fatal minutes of life, the final minutes of life, and it pulls you out of a fentanyl overdose. It doesn't help normal people step down from drugs. Suboxone is a great tool, but it's way more addictive and hard to get off of than 708.

• 1:14:01Danny Jones?

  The answer is to allow both 708 to be available and Ibogaine treatment. Not everyone wants to get off painkillers. I've heard a lot of people have died from Ibogaine. I've heard Ibogaine is very dangerous. Not everyone wants to get off painkillers either because they're just in pain. That's kind of where I'm at. The only, the only plus to Suboxone is that you don't really crave it and won't take it 20 times a day, but you're also still in pain. It helps a little with pain, but also makes you a zombie. I lost over 40 pounds because I can work out while using 708 and I can't and don't want to do anything if I don't take it. Wow.

• 1:14:42Danny Jones?

  It's also a good idea for people with pain to use plain leaf kratom and just to use 708 when you really need it.

• 1:14:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's kind of interesting perspective. I mean, we sometimes forget, you know, I think our bodies feel good. I don't, I don't have a lot of pain.

• 1:14:58Danny Jones?

  No, I don't either.

• 1:14:59Speaker 02

  And we forget that there's a whole subset of people that are like, there's people that are in physical pain and there's people with mental pain. And those have to be addressed in some way. Otherwise, it does make it a lot harder to get up off the couch. Having a brother that's, you know, compromised in this way, you know, gives me sympathy towards that. And I always kind of think of like, you think of the, the greatest athletes of all time, the people that we really look up to, the Michael Jordans and the, Tom Brady's and some of these people that have these, you know, really crazy engines and looks like they can go all day. I wonder, if you were to inject them with a bunch of pain, how excited they would be to do or inject me with a bunch of pain or you with a bunch of pain.

• 1:15:43Speaker 02

  Just chronic systemic pain, like almost pain like that you have when you're sick, you know, like your, how your back feels tight and you, trying to sleep it off and all that stuff and you, you just, you don't want to, you don't want to get up and get after it.

• 1:15:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:15:57Speaker 02

  And so there's a lot of people that suffer from those things. And I think the GLP ones, I think, uh, performance enhancing drugs, everything from testosterone to, I mean, these, these companies that are allowed to, uh, you know, read your blood work, interpret it and then, give you like testosterone and stuff. I think that, I think they should open the floodgates. They should be able to give you everything. Why not? Let's have more access to more stuff. They're giving you unregulated and giving you access to peptides and stuff. That they probably shouldn't be, um, because they're not FDA approved.

• 1:16:33Speaker 02

  So why wouldn't we open up the floodgates to allow for the doctor to prescribe you trenbolone or whatever it is that you want?

• 1:16:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:16:39Speaker 02

  I think, again, as long as you're, as long as you're maybe aware of what the potential harms are. And everyone should just know this about any drug that you ever touch, ever take.

• 1:16:53Speaker 02

  If you're ever gonna try anything, just try the littlest amount possible. So that way you don't screw yourself up. And then the other thing would be, think about it in logical terms, like, are you gonna be doing this the next five years? Do you want to do this forever? Cause I'm in a situation that I don't think is great. I've been on testosterone for 25 years.

• 1:17:13Danny Jones?

  You can't get, why don't, why don't you take a break?

• 1:17:16Speaker 02

  I should, I just, I just haven't.

• 1:17:18Danny Jones?

  Could you?

• 1:17:19Speaker 02

  So I have, I have taken a break, so I haven't been on it for 25 straight years. I had my daughter in between, so there was a period of time where I was off. Um, I also came off for experimental reasons years ago for a few months.

• 1:17:34Danny Jones?

  After how many years of being on it?

• 1:17:37Speaker 02

  Probably a good 15 years or so.

• 1:17:39Danny Jones?

  Did you get blood work when you went off of it? To see if your natural numbers bounced back?

• 1:17:44Speaker 02

  So I wasn't, I wasn't, uh, I don't think I was off it long enough. When I was off it to have my daughter Quinn, she's 18 now, so it was a long time ago. But when I, uh,

• 1:17:56Danny Jones?

  But you had been on, when you, when you had your daughter, when you got off to have your daughter, you had been on for how long?

• 1:18:03Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I don't know the exact age.

• 1:18:06Danny Jones?

  Roughly, how many years?

• 1:18:08Speaker 02

  Like at least 10 years.

• 1:18:09Danny Jones?

  At least 10 years.

• 1:18:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I came off for probably about a year, but I don't know if I was off for long enough. And at that time, that was so long ago, at the time, I wasn't routinely getting blood work done. You gotta remember, blood work stuff is like five years old, you know? And it's really not that old, you know? But I've been getting blood work done for maybe closer to like eight years. Um, so yeah, I didn't quite have blood work done, uh, back in that exact timeframe, but,

• 1:18:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:18:40Speaker 02

  Uh, you know, I've come off like maybe one other time, but basically have been on for like 25 years. And so for people that are listening and people that are like, oh, I want to be a little bit bigger, I want to be a little bit stronger. Steroids or whatever drug you take, uh,

• 1:18:55Speaker 02

  There might be some drugs that, there might be some drugs that work outside of this framework, but my understanding is that all drugs and all diets, they only work while you're doing them.

• 1:19:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:19:05Speaker 02

  So, once you discontinue the thing that worked for you losing weight, or once you discontinued the thing that helped you build muscle, whether it be creatine, or whether it be testosterone, or other performance enhancing drugs, um, once you stop them, you will lose your results. All the way to the point where you might go ba-, you might go back, uh, beyond, uh, being worse off than you were before, which is kinda like, kinda scary territory. You're like, oh shit, that kinda sucks.

• 1:19:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:19:37Speaker 02

  Now, you can, there's ways that you can fend that off, and there's ways that you can strategically, you know, uh, maybe eat in a little bit of, like, you're gonna gain some body fat, but you might be able to eat strategically in a caloric surplus, you might be able to try to do other healthy habits, really make sure you're sleeping a lot, maybe you can try some like Boron, or something like that, that is a supplement that can help raise your free testosterone. Like, so maybe there's some things you can do that could safely, uh, provide a safety net for you, but more than likely, um, you're, you're not gonna be the same. And for me, I just don't feel like I'm ready for that yet. Like, I, I feel so good with my training, I feel so good with my running, I feel so

• 1:20:22Speaker 02

  good with all the stuff that's going on, and even just my mental capacity. And I've talked to some friends about it, I've talked to some like experts and stuff, and they're like, they're like, yeah, they're like, for you, like, if that, it's like, you're so positive all the time, and if that positive side drops out, I've always been positive. I have never, I've never been like a negative person, I've always been relatively happy, I've always been pretty calm, and stuff like that, too. And, so my concern is that some of that would like drop off, and, and I know that I would still train through it and around it and stuff.

• 1:20:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:57Speaker 02

  But I haven't come to grips with that yet. But I do realize, like, I'm addicted to them, I'm addicted to steroids, and I said it in my brother's movie, like, I'll be on and off of them the rest of my life. Because I'm hooked on them. So people should be aware, like steroids are.

• 1:21:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:13Speaker 02

  And let's, let's, you know, let's spell it out for everybody too. Steroids and testosterone are basically synonymous. There's some argument over that because there's some argument over like the structure and the chemical and the, and there's some people that could probably argue that they're not the same thing.

• 1:21:30Danny Jones?

  You're, you're taking.

• 1:21:31Speaker 02

  But it's an anabolic.

• 1:21:32Danny Jones?

  You're taking something that your body naturally produces. Right? You're not taking like something that's not natural to the body, like kratom. Your body doesn't produce kratom. Your body doesn't produce opioids, right? Does it?

• 1:21:45Speaker 02

  Your body has opioid receptors.

• 1:21:48Danny Jones?

  Right. But like.

• 1:21:50Speaker 02

  I mean, it's, it's so for some reason.

• 1:21:52Danny Jones?

  Or like nicotine. Your body doesn't produce nicotine or caffeine.

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:21:55Danny Jones?

  Those are things you take, like.

• 1:21:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:57Danny Jones?

  Testosterone is a natural producing hormone in the body and you're just, you're just tinkering with that level.

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  So that's the argument for testosterone, but then sometimes people say, hey, well, don't take uh, melatonin.

• 1:22:10Speaker 02

  It's like, don't take melatonin. You don't want to mess with your natural melatonin levels.

• 1:22:13Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 1:22:13Speaker 02

  But I know Dr. Dom, he, he actually has been Dominic D'Agostino. He's been using melatonin for many years.

• 1:22:20Danny Jones?

  Has he? I didn't know that.

• 1:22:20Speaker 02

  And he researched it and I think he did like a, you know, he's, he's incredibly smart.

• 1:22:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he's a wizard.

• 1:22:28Speaker 02

  He's, he's done a lot of, a lot of research on it, but

• 1:22:32Speaker 02

  in his experience, um, he hasn't seen it lower his own melatonin. There's some people that say, say the same thing about vitamin D. Like you shouldn't take vitamin D because your body is supposed to make it naturally. You're supposed to get it from the sun. Maybe it's not supposed to be revved up and cranked up all the time. Um, we can justify all this stuff as much as we want. And I, you know, I love.

• 1:22:54Danny Jones?

  Look, people, human beings have been tinkering with their biology since the beginning of recorded history. It's a fact.

• 1:23:00Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:23:00Danny Jones?

  You know, and we're still doing it now and people have had the same lifespan forever. When we talk about, you know, like Marcus Aurelius was famous for taking all kinds of performance enhancing drugs because back then in the, in the, in, um,

• 1:23:16Danny Jones?

  Whenever that was like the second, third century or whatever, uh, people were always getting assassinated with venoms and poisons and shit. So this dude was drinking snake venom on the daily mixed with opium to increase his immunity. People were doing it all over the place in the ancient world, like drinking fucking venoms and stuff to just enhance their immunity. Because people were always getting bit by snakes and people were always getting poisoned by other people.

• 1:23:40Speaker 02

  This is crazy.

• 1:23:40Danny Jones?

  So like, it's just crazy that this, that, um, the idea of PEDs or performance enhancing drugs is so ancient. And we're still doing it. It's like, it's a natural thing that we want to do. We want to naturally improve our, we want to optimize our function and the, and what we do and get like physi- physically better or mentally better than our baseline.

• 1:24:06Speaker 02

  It makes you wonder like, why, like, why do we have the makeup that we have?

• 1:24:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:09Speaker 02

  You know, like why, I think the body produces DMT.

• 1:24:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:13Speaker 02

  Right? It's like something that you.

• 1:24:14Danny Jones?

  That's another thing that we've been doing since the recording. Fucking eating shit and tripping our balls off.

• 1:24:20Speaker 02

  Right? And then why do we have these like receptors to where it like works that way with us?

• 1:24:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah, right?

• 1:24:26Speaker 02

  Like, why do you get?

• 1:24:27Danny Jones?

  The serotonin, the 2A, serotonin 2A receptor or whatever, that's like responsible for us tripping on, you know, with DMT and with like, uh, psilocybin and mushroom. Like, how is there this thing that grows out of the ground that literally will catapult your consciousness into another dimension? And you'll see entities and shit that you can't see in normal waking consciousness.

• 1:24:51Speaker 02

  And then there's people that see the same.

• 1:24:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the same stuff.

• 1:24:55Speaker 02

  They see the same little elves or whatever.

• 1:24:56Danny Jones?

  Or like communicate with like weird entities that like, and have profound insights, you know, that can be life changing. It's pretty fucking crazy, dude.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  And that, I mean, for me, that's what testosterone's been for me. It's been, it's been life altering. It's been like, uh, it's been a really, it's been really fun to do it. Uh, if it shortens my life in some way, I mean, I guess that would suck in some ways, especially if it shortened it to the point where I die tomorrow. But at the same time, I feel like.

• 1:25:32Speaker 02

  I feel like I've gotten such cool opportunities and a lot of those opportunities are from the drugs.

• 1:25:37Danny Jones?

  Well, how old is Arnold?

• 1:25:39Speaker 02

  He's 70. He's probably 80.

• 1:25:43Danny Jones?

  How old is Arnold Schwarzenegger?

• 1:25:45Speaker 02

  I know that Stallone is 80.

• 1:25:47Danny Jones?

  And those dudes abused the shit out of steroids, right?

• 1:25:50Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:25:51Danny Jones?

  Those dudes were on insane amounts. When they were like in their teens, right? Arnold was on that shit when he was like 18, 17.

• 1:25:57Speaker 02

  He's 78 years old.

• 1:26:01Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow. Our birthdays is one day apart.

• 1:26:02Speaker 02

  Oh, did you see his son competed? His, uh, his son, that's, uh, oh shit, what's his, what's his son's name?

• 1:26:10Danny Jones?

  Patrick?

• 1:26:11Speaker 02

  It's not Patrick.

• 1:26:13Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  It's his, uh,

• 1:26:18Speaker 02

  there we go. Joseph, yeah.

• 1:26:20Danny Jones?

  He has a different last name?

• 1:26:22Speaker 02

  He's the son that was, uh, born from the, um.

• 1:26:25Danny Jones?

  But why didn't he take his dad's name?

• 1:26:29Speaker 02

  It's complicated.

• 1:26:31Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah. I follow this guy on Instagram. It's so crazy how much he looks like his dad.

• 1:26:35Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:26:36Danny Jones?

  So is he nat- all natural?

• 1:26:38Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:26:39Danny Jones?

  Look at his dad next to him.

• 1:26:42Speaker 02

  I know, isn't that crazy?

• 1:26:43Danny Jones?

  That's the cut out of his dad, right?

• 1:26:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, Arnold was insane because the, um.

• 1:26:51Danny Jones?

  No, it's, oh, it's a wax? Oh, it's a 3D wax sculpture. Wow, dude.

• 1:26:56Speaker 02

  Arnold was insane because of the waist. You know, the small waist.

• 1:27:02Danny Jones?

  The waist to shoulder.

• 1:27:02Speaker 02

  And, and the chest and the biceps. And there was a couple of other bodybuilders back at that time that really emphasized that. And you don't really, people don't really do that as much anymore. I know that, um, in SEMA, you know, when he was bodybuilding and, and still, I mean, in SEMA has, he just has a great.

• 1:27:20Danny Jones?

  Dude, he's one of the most physically impressive human beings I've ever seen.

• 1:27:24Speaker 02

  Unbelievable. Um, to have a small waist is like a thing. Like that's a, that's a big deal. And a lot of bodybuilders, a lot of good bodybuilders have a small waist, but over the years, some of those guys got more blocky.

• 1:27:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:36Speaker 02

  You know, they kind of got, which is, they're still impressive. They still have massive arms and massive delts and everything. But they don't have that, because Arnold had a look that was unique, you know, and he had a look that, um. I think all the way until Chris Bumstead, I don't think we've seen anything even remotely close to what Arnold had.

• 1:27:52Danny Jones?

  Damn it, my brother was showing me this guy yesterday. Who is, he's the, he's on, he's on Instagram.

• 1:27:59Speaker 02

  His bicep is insane, that peak.

• 1:28:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah, look at it compared to his son.

• 1:28:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:04Danny Jones?

  Is his son on anything?

• 1:28:06Speaker 02

  I don't know. I, I'm not sure.

• 1:28:08Danny Jones?

  I mean, if Arnold has lived this long, he's 80 years old, right? Can't be that bad. I mean, and that guy's abused the shit out of some stuff.

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do think that like, I think.

• 1:28:21Danny Jones?

  So this is the housekeepers?

• 1:28:23Speaker 02

  There, there you go.

• 1:28:24Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:28:25Speaker 02

  I think that, um, I think that these guys, you know, they did take less than what people take now. They didn't have as much, they didn't have as much different stuff. And I think it was also like, less known, what these things could do. Um, Arnold did have a heart issue.

• 1:28:42Danny Jones?

  Did he?

• 1:28:42Speaker 02

  A few years ago. Um, I don't know if Stallone has had that before. Um, but like bodybuilders, interestingly enough, it's, it's pretty rare to hear of a bodybuilder dying from cancer. Uh, but bodybuilders having like a heart attack is.

• 1:28:59Danny Jones?

  Common.

• 1:29:00Speaker 02

  It's more common, but then there's, unfortunately, there's other things tied to it as well.

• 1:29:04Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:29:04Speaker 02

  So it makes it hard to.

• 1:29:05Danny Jones?

  It's a cascading thing. When your body starts to get huge.

• 1:29:08Speaker 02

  And, and also, yeah, and also some of these guys that end up taking other recreational drugs on top of.

• 1:29:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:29:15Speaker 02

  Cause years ago, it was really popular for a lot of these guys to train in the gym and to be like on Nubain and painkillers and all kinds of stuff. Cause you know, their back hurt, but it was, you know, a day to train deadlifts or whatever.

• 1:29:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:29:29Speaker 02

  Had to, you know.

• 1:29:29Danny Jones?

  All these, all these, uh, I, I was talking to Inseam about this, all these fucking athletes I learned recently are on Adderall. Like NFL players.

• 1:29:37Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:29:38Danny Jones?

  They're fricking geek, geeked on Adderall. I was like, I never expected Adderall to be a performance enhan, like a physical enhancing drug. But I mean, you can look at the photos of like, uh, Derrick Henry running with the ball and you see his eyes, dude.

• 1:29:52Speaker 02

  Eyeballs.

• 1:29:53Danny Jones?

  They're, and even, uh, Antonio Brown. If you look at like the closeups of when he's running with the football dude, his eyes are popping out of his skull.

• 1:30:02Speaker 02

  So there's, there's drugs too that just allow you better access to your, again to your central nervous system like we talked about in the very beginning. So there's things that can, you know, make you more explosive. There's things that can make you react a little bit better. I forget what the label, like the official label use of some of these drugs are, but the off-label use is to use them for performance enhancement. The off-label use is to use it to be, you know, a little bit stronger. Adderall is, would probably fall into that category, but there's-

• 1:30:34Danny Jones?

  There's another thing that's like, I think is overly prescribed. Cause I know so many kids who are prescribed Adderall.

• 1:30:40Speaker 02

  Massively. And then, you know, you kind of, you get back to something like kratom, like would it be worse to take kratom?

• 1:30:46Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:30:47Speaker 02

  Over Adderall? Like, I don't know. I don't know what the answer is.

• 1:30:50Danny Jones?

  Cause that's, Adderall is certainly addictive. It's like meth. It's got the same ingredients as methamphetamine. It's, it's an amphetamine, like by definition.

• 1:30:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. And when you think about, some of this stuff just has to do with like morals. You know, you're trying to think, like what, you're not trying to necessarily judge other people's morals, but you're just trying to judge your own morals. You get to a point where you're like, yeah, I'm, I'm drinking, I'm drinking too, maybe I'm drinking too many of these. Like this isn't the right, I'm a dad and I got these responsibilities and-

• 1:31:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:18Speaker 02

  Maybe I should talk to somebody about that. Maybe I should put that to the side for a little while. But then you got other things that you justify and it still gets past the goalie somehow where you're drinking, you're drinking the caffeine and you're still having beer here and there or whatever. And it's like, I don't know how, how, I think the, I think the fact that some of the things are even on your radar, I think is healthy. You know, when people think about microplastics and they think about whether the fed, their food is grass-fed, grass-finished and some of those things. I think, hey, at least you're, at least you're starting to think about it. At least you're starting to kind of like head in that direction. I don't know how paranoid we need to be about it because to a certain

• 1:31:59Speaker 02

  degree, why not enjoy your time here? As you were pointing out earlier, I think the Bible says like we- Live into our seventies and I think for a male, I think late seventies is still the

• 1:32:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:13Speaker 02

  Is is still

• 1:32:14Danny Jones?

  The lifespan today of humans uninterrupted is the same as it was in antiquity in ancient Greece. So it's like

• 1:32:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's it's relatively the same.

• 1:32:24Danny Jones?

  But obviously back then there was more deaths because of plague and famine and combat and shit.

• 1:32:30Speaker 02

  I know for myself, like I was talking to my wife about this the other day and I was like, you know, I don't. I think I would just rather be killed. I'd rather go to another country and just be injected with whatever and just because I know you can, I think you can do that in Oregon, too.

• 1:32:45Danny Jones?

  Suicide, I mean, the assisted suicide shit?

• 1:32:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think I'd rather, you know.

• 1:32:49Danny Jones?

  Have you seen the commercial for that? Dude, look up the assisted suicide commercial. It is

• 1:32:53Speaker 02

  Is it great?

• 1:32:53Danny Jones?

  Fucking terrifying. Dude, it's so fucked up. It's so weird to me.

• 1:32:59Speaker 02

  It'd be like the alternate universe of you make not making that decision and then you live another 20 years.

• 1:33:04Danny Jones?

  It's amazing that I was like, I was watching it. I was just astonished that it was that it was real. Like I could have never imagined.

• 1:33:11Speaker 02

  Just people dying in the hospital is just it. It's a it's sad to me. It's really sad, you know, you like. It doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter what you did, you know, you could, you could, you could have done all these amazing things in your life. Helped all these people and done all these things and then you're seventy something and you hurt yourself and

• 1:33:31Danny Jones?

  This is it.

• 1:33:31Speaker 02

  End up in a hospital.

• 1:33:33Danny Jones?

  Throw the, throw the cans on so they can hear it. This is fucking little Twilight Zone shit right here.

• 1:33:38Speaker 05

  Last breaths are sacred. When I imagine my final days, I see bubbles.

• 1:33:47Speaker 05

  I see the ocean. I see music.

• 1:33:53Speaker 05

  Even now, as I seek help to end my life, there is still so much beauty. You just have to be brave enough to see it.

• 1:34:02Danny Jones?

  Damn. What?

• 1:34:07Danny Jones?

  Again, a commercial for people to kill themselves.

• 1:34:12Speaker 02

  Is that lady dead?

• 1:34:13Danny Jones?

  I don't know, but she wasn't, certainly wasn't old.

• 1:34:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, it's probably for people that can no longer handle the pain or people that can no longer handle being here. You know, I think, um, I think some of the angst of like seeing so much stuff on social media can sometimes be like overwhelming. And I think people, we're not designed to like be able to handle that necessarily. We can, we can handle a lot of stuff, but handling interaction with so many different people and so much different news. Uh, everything's kind of like becoming like one. Everything's like worldly. Uh, when I was a kid, it was like, it was like just, you know, the United States over everybody else. And you just ran over everybody

• 1:35:00Speaker 02

  else and didn't care about the other countries. And that's really probably all the time that you have to be able to, that's really all the energy that you have is to like worry about yourself and the neighbor next to you or the people that you care about and love. Uh, but now it's like, if it's, if there's a problem in the world, it's like everyone's problem. And there's so many, uh, different things going on at once. I would imagine there's a lot of people who not only get sick, but, but there's people who aren't sick that are just like, take me out. I just don't want to be here anymore. And I wonder if those people like qualify for that or how, I wonder how you, you know what I mean? I wonder how you get, my oldest brother used to say he didn't want to be here

• 1:35:45Danny Jones?

  anymore. I think it's the sign of a civilization in decline.

• 1:35:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:48Danny Jones?

  When there's corporations.

• 1:35:50Speaker 02

  Right, right, right.

• 1:35:52Danny Jones?

  That are advertising for you to end your life.

• 1:35:57Speaker 02

  It's, it's, it's definitely weird to see an ad for it.

• 1:36:01Danny Jones?

  It's that fourth turning thing. You know, the phrase, uh, what is it? Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times. I think right at this junction that we're at in, in history, at least in American history, we're like at the time where you're seeing like everything is so good and easy. It's starting to create difficult times for people.

• 1:36:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:36:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, if anything goes backwards at all, we'll be really

• 1:36:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:35Speaker 02

  We'll be really screwed.

• 1:36:36Danny Jones?

  We're also like, yeah, and we're, we're, we're exposed to everything across the world. Any kind of like war, any kind of conflict, any kind of genocide and like corruption. Like we're, we're more aware of how corrupt our government is than ever before. Like we're more like, and it's to the point where like, it can be, it can be transparent. We can be exposed to all of it and we will still disagree on whether it's real or not. Like, we don't know.

• 1:37:10Speaker 02

  Oh, we're at a really weird.

• 1:37:11Danny Jones?

  What's up and down.

• 1:37:12Speaker 02

  We're at a really weird point now because how do you know if something's real?

• 1:37:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:37:16Speaker 02

  It's very difficult to sift through and to try to learn what's real and what's not. You know, years ago, I started to see what happened to some of my friends that were climbing the social media ladder. They were doing great on YouTube and doing great on these other platforms. And I decided for myself to like, I recognize that a lot of those friends weren't happy and some of them were even like, you know, borderline suicidal.

• 1:37:46Speaker 02

  And I was like, well, I don't think I have it in me to become quite like that, but at the same time, I should be proactive and I should try to work on, I should sort of like investigate and work on this and work on my mind. I looked up some like normal stuff. I looked up some stuff on like Stoicism and some of that stuff helped and things like that. But as I kept kind of diving down the rabbit hole, I started to discover more and more things that I think were helpful for me in being able to like balance my mind. And the word that comes to mind is equanimity and equanimity is, is having a balanced mind in the face of basically mayhem and chaos and things that other people would otherwise recognize as.

• 1:38:32Speaker 02

  Being detrimental to like their mental health. And so I I've worked on it for a long, it takes a long time to work on it, but. And some people have kind of said before, they'll say, oh, well, you don't seem to care about anything. It's like, well, you know, it's not that I don't care about anything. It's that I I'm able to pause and then select how I react to something. I don't just react to something because I thought that this thing should piss me off or I allowed myself to get like triggered by something. So I actually will use social media sometimes as like a training ground for equanimity. I'll use it as a training ground to work on my mind, to work on having that balance.

• 1:39:15Speaker 02

  Because it's easy to get pulled in one direction or the other. If you have previous beliefs that are getting challenged. The most logical thing for most people is to get mad.

• 1:39:30Speaker 02

  But for me, I just what's helped me to get become more open minded over the years and to even potentially understand that some of the powerlifting and some of the things that I did. Maybe I did them to such an extreme that it wasn't great or healthy for me. And then I've, you know, learned all these other things. And then people are like, this guy's lost his mind. It's not so much that I've lost my mind. It's just that I've become more open to these other possibilities. Because I'm constantly examining what I previously thought to be true. And now I don't think that anything's true. I think every, all the stuff that I've learned is more loosely the truth that I hold for now.

• 1:40:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:40:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. Keep trying to make it better.

• 1:40:10Danny Jones?

  Beliefs aren't your, should not be your identity.

• 1:40:14Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:40:14Danny Jones?

  Especially in politics. Because like, politics is so fake. When people make their their political beliefs, their personal identity, that's when you've lost. Because you can't have a, you can't have a rational, reasonable conversation about anything. Because anyone who challenges that idea is challenging you. And you will just argue. Till the end of time.

• 1:40:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:40:40Danny Jones?

  For, just for the sake of it, right? There's no, there's no goal to get to the truth. And you end up just spinning your wheels. And it's very dumb.

• 1:40:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think you said the word and the words rational. You know, you're trying to be, trying to be rational, trying to have a rational response to.

• 1:40:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:59Speaker 02

  I mean, even like a few years ago, my YouTube channel got taken down. And it was just like, it's actually really strange, but we listed a peptide company in like the,

• 1:41:13Speaker 02

  somewhere in the YouTube video, we listed it in text, like I had a clickable link.

• 1:41:18Danny Jones?

  You linked to it.

• 1:41:19Speaker 02

  To a peptide company, which is funny now, because there's how many peptide companies? This is like, you know, a few years back. But yeah, our whole YouTube channel got shut down. It was our YouTube channel that's for the podcast. And so, you know, it was a big deal, but I made a video talking about it. And I'm like, I'm not sweating it, you know, because people were like mad. They were like really mad. They're like, man, we love your content like this sucks. And then.

• 1:41:40Danny Jones?

  It does suck.

• 1:41:41Speaker 02

  Other.

• 1:41:41Danny Jones?

  Get it back?

• 1:41:42Speaker 02

  Other influencers came out, came around and they made videos about it. Like, I can't believe what's happened to Mark Bell. His YouTube got taken down. He seems like he's a good guy. Seems like he's always trying to help people. And people were really like flipping out about it. And I was like, hey, look, you know, this is what happened. And yeah, I could sit here and be really mad about it. But I can also just sit here and think about what are the strategies I can do moving forward?

• 1:42:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:42:07Speaker 02

  To either get the channel back or to just start another one? What other options do I have? I can sit here and like cry about it or get mad about it or kick something or punch a hole in the wall. But it's just going to hurt my hand and I'll have to get the wall fixed.

• 1:42:22Speaker 02

  So yeah, that's the way I try to look at things. And I did get the channel back because I was just like, well, let me just think about it for a minute. And then a fan hit me up and the fan was like, hey, I work for YouTube. He's like, I think, I don't think you really did anything that's that bad. So he's like, I think I can get the channel back. And then it was probably like a week later that he got the channel back. But yeah, I don't think it's worth, I don't think a lot of things are really worth overreacting to. I think, you know, when my kids were, like, I can, I can say this with confidence. I can say that my son has seen me mad and I'm not proud of that. But my daughter, I don't think ever has.

• 1:43:05Danny Jones?

  Seen you mad?

• 1:43:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. Seeing me mad or like thrown off, you know, thrown off of my normal behavior, I guess you'd say.

• 1:43:15Speaker 02

  So, yeah, I mean, if you try to live your life kind of thinking that, like you have kids. So, how cool would it be if your kids, when they're older, especially like your one year old, if when she's 20, she's like, Dad, I've never seen you, overreact, never seen you. You know, maybe your other ones have because maybe your kid is driven, like any, any parents out there, your kid can drive you, kids can drive you absolutely insane. So it's understandable to be seen as being mad or seen as being irrational, irrational or unreasonable.

• 1:43:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah. At the end of the day, all you can control is yourself and your own body and your own emotions and your own world, right? And everything extrapolates from there. If you have no control over your own life, over your own health, over your own mental well-being, then like, you're not, you gotta have that, you gotta be like, have that figured out first before you can figure anything else. Like if you, if you don't have a handle or a good grip on your own life, you're not going to be able to have a grip or a handle on external things, like social media or, or anything else in the world, right? You're going to be, you're going to be unmanageable.

• 1:44:30Speaker 02

  I think it's incredible to, to know that we don't have control over anything.

• 1:44:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:36Speaker 02

  Outside of just our own thinking.

• 1:44:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:44:38Speaker 02

  And then there's even parts of your own thinking that you don't necessarily have control over since you have like a, you know, you got your subconscious and you, and you got things that are just kind of always playing in the background that are weird, like just weird thoughts. You're in the coffee shop and you're like, I wonder what would happen if I just punch this guy in the head.

• 1:44:56Danny Jones?

  Right, yeah.

• 1:44:57Speaker 02

  You know, or if I just like beat the hell out of the barista for some, like, I don't know why you think these crazy things.

• 1:45:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:03Speaker 02

  But sometimes you just think something totally wild for some random reason. And there's like weird thoughts that just come to you on a walk or taking a dump or whatever that happened. But other than that, um, we do get to think about our thoughts and we do get to. Take a moment to like process stuff. And I think a really good example, and probably something that people might be able to identify with the most is is text messaging. If you get a text message that comes at you and you feel like it's a little sideways or whatever, just throws you off a bit. You just take a minute, like you don't need to answer it right then. You know, like whatever you were, whatever you were about to do, go ahead and like finish doing that. And maybe you did see it, maybe it kind of perturbed you a little bit. Maybe you're like, oh, what the heck does this guy want?

• 1:45:48Speaker 02

  This is annoying. Just give it a minute. And then, and then you'll probably realize like, oh, well, there's not a lot of punctuation there. He just fired me a text and he probably doesn't mean anything by it.

• 1:46:00Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:46:01Speaker 02

  I have a joke with a couple of my friends where we just say no. Like no, no means you're mad. Like if you're like, hey, Mark, want a lift? And I just replied, no. He'd be like, oh, man, maybe.

• 1:46:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:46:11Speaker 02

  Maybe something, maybe something.

• 1:46:13Danny Jones?

  Would it tick?

• 1:46:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. But it because I have to give you context. Like, that's the world that we're in.

• 1:46:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:46:18Speaker 02

  And that wouldn't happen, though, if I, if we called each other. I'd say, no, I, it turns out I'm like running late and I can't make time to do it or whatever. But texting, you know, can sometimes throw you off. So texting is like a pretty low form of communication. And I think we need to recognize that. And if, if texting is throwing you off, then go to the next level. You know, give someone a call.

• 1:46:42Danny Jones?

  Do a voice text.

• 1:46:42Speaker 02

  Or, or voice text. I love voice text.

• 1:46:45Danny Jones?

  I know, they're great.

• 1:46:45Speaker 02

  Or, or, or FaceTime. Right? Like, like you can keep going higher up. You could actually just meet in person. Hey, that's, that's, you know, somebody's trying to like bring something up that's maybe controversial or touchy and say, hey, that's a great subject. Let's talk, I can't wait to talk to you about that when I see you on Saturday. And just, just deflated the whole thing rather than like going back and forth or nasty emails or texts or whatever.

• 1:47:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the more disconnected you are from people when you're communicating, uh, the more difficult it's going to be to know intent, you know? Like intent gets thrown, you lose all that when you, the more separation you have from people, whether it be through screens or be through text messages or phone calls or whatever. And, uh, you know, it's really crazy when you, when you extrapolate that into like the dating world and how, you know, young people nowadays are like doing more and more of the online swipe dating or whatever it is with like, uh, Hinge and all those, all those apps. And it's funny, I had this lady on the podcast a couple of months back, maybe actually

• 1:47:51Danny Jones?

  close to a year ago, probably, uh, who is a evolutionary biologist and um,

• 1:48:00Danny Jones?

  she studies like, like evolution and reproduction and all that stuff. And she was a part of a study where they took a group of women and they gave them, they called it the sweaty t-shirt study. Have you heard of this?

• 1:48:11Speaker 02

  I haven't.

• 1:48:12Danny Jones?

  It's where they gave a group of women, a bunch of different sweaty t-shirts from different guys, like their different sweats, like different sweat from different guys. And they all smelled the sweaty shirts and had to rank how attracted they were to this, to the stench of the sweaty shirt. And there was like one to 10. And they took that data from the women and then they took their DNA and they took the DNA of the men who sweated those sweaty shirts. And what they found was the women who found the certain man's sweat more attractive, they found that their, uh, their immune systems were a better fit. So

• 1:48:51Danny Jones?

  like, the immune system of the woman where she was deficient, that man's sweat would make up for it. If they were to reproduce, they would have a more, uh, they would have a baby with a more robust, like fully rounded immune system.

• 1:49:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:09Danny Jones?

  Which is fascinating. And like, if you do, so, so if you're dating and you're not being around that person and like smelling them or like whatever, seeing the way they move, it's like, it's like you're missing so many cues. And I know that happens. And again, that gets thrown off when you have, uh, women on like birth control.

• 1:49:32Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:49:32Danny Jones?

  Because the birth control, I know, throws off the woman's, the woman's like desire, their hormonal balance and all that.

• 1:49:39Speaker 02

  Probably changed their ability to smell.

• 1:49:41Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. So like, so like, I've heard stories of women that, that are on birth control and like they meet their significant other and they get married, then she gets off birth control and she's like no longer attracted to this guy.

• 1:49:52Speaker 02

  I've heard of that before too.

• 1:49:53Danny Jones?

  You know, it's crazy. It's crazy how, how all of that stuff.

• 1:49:58Speaker 02

  But then we also have like perfumes and.

• 1:50:00Danny Jones?

  That masks your natural pheromones, right?

• 1:50:03Speaker 02

  Wearing a lot of stuff and, but you know, sometimes the other options aren't great either, you know? Like I know some people that are like very holistic and they don't wear anything and I'm like, that dude just stinks all the time, man. Like he does not, like it's bad, you know? And I know that that smell probably actually probably represents something. They probably, it probably meant something, you know?

• 1:50:24Danny Jones?

  Some dudes like that though.

• 1:50:25Speaker 02

  Many years ago, but you're like, dude, that's.

• 1:50:28Danny Jones?

  Some dudes like hairy girls, like girls with armpit hair that like are sweaty. You're, do you have any friends like that?

• 1:50:35Speaker 02

  I don't know. I probably do without them, without them.

• 1:50:38Danny Jones?

  I have friends like that. They're just, they like.

• 1:50:39Speaker 02

  Well, I have friends that.

• 1:50:40Danny Jones?

  Manly girls.

• 1:50:41Speaker 02

  I have friends that.

• 1:50:42Danny Jones?

  Rugged girl, rugged gals.

• 1:50:44Speaker 02

  So I used to have my gym, super training gym, which was a gym I had for over a decade that was free that we had in Sacramento.

• 1:50:54Speaker 02

  I used to have it at this gym called Midtown Strength and Conditioning. And it was like the entrance was through my side of the gym. And my side of the gym, super training was maybe about 2,000 square feet. And it was like all powerlifting stuff, places to do your squats, places to do your benches, places to do your deadlifts. And everything just looked, you know, everything was kind of like intimidating. There's like quotes on the wall and, and, and all this kind of stuff. But the women in the area, cause it was like in downtown Sacramento, many of them worked at the Capitol building. And then they would come through, when they walk through our side of the gym,

• 1:51:36Speaker 02

  you know, most of my team being on like testosterone and these, these guys, you know, very, uh, very much a locker room kind of environment. I mean, they wouldn't ever say anything directly to the girls or anything weird like that. They were more chill than that, but, um, you know, a girl would, a girl would walk in and someone would be like, oh my God, like I love short girls. And then the next girl would walk in like, oh my God, I love girls that are tall. And then I'm like, okay, I get it. You dislike any, any female that's gonna walk through the door, pretty much. You know, so that's my, my experience with most of my friends. So they probably would be into hairy, you know, more bulky. They probably be into just, just any and all. Sign them up for all of it.

• 1:52:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm sure like being on stuff like testosterone or whatever probably changes things to a degree too, like changes your preferences to girls.

• 1:52:28Speaker 02

  Uh, it's, it's crazier than that. It's way crazier than that. So tren, tren balloon.

• 1:52:37Speaker 02

  I mean, I don't know. I don't know if you can look this up. I don't know if this is like known, but like tren balloon, they believe can make you gay.

• 1:52:42Danny Jones?

  Really? Why do all the, why do so many bodybuilders have like those high pitched voices? Have you heard, have you, have you noticed that?

• 1:52:50Speaker 02

  A male bodybuilder? Male bodybuilder. They have kinda like a high pitched voice like this. Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:52:57Speaker 02

  I mean,

• 1:52:57Danny Jones?

  Not Arnold, clearly.

• 1:52:59Speaker 02

  Steroids will, steroids will change. It will change so much about you. It definitely will change your voice. You know, when I was 25 and I started, I mean, I had like, I literally had like one chest hair. And I don't have crazy chest hair or anything, but I do have a decent amount of hair there. And I had, I had zero hair. Like on my legs, I had zero hair on my forearms. And again, I'm not like furry. I don't shave my forearms. But there's not like a crazy amount of hair there. But yeah, it changes. It changes like everything about you, but I think, I think there's like an amount of testosterone that you can take that,

• 1:53:38Speaker 02

  and performance enhancing drugs, you could take such an amount that it can alter your chemistry of your brain. You know, like somebody might, somebody might check out some porn and they're into just like some normal stuff. They're into like, like quote unquote, normal stuff. Just a guy and a girl having sex, right? If you're on testosterone and you start taking a lot of it, you'll probably start to get into more and more wild stuff. It probably will like, it probably exponentially make you get into more and more crazy stuff. And then the, and then the tren balloon, I forget what it is about tren balloon specifically.

• 1:54:18Danny Jones?

  That makes you gay?

• 1:54:19Speaker 02

  That has, that has made some people. I mean, I don't know. I don't know if I believe necessarily in like something like, you know, quote unquote, making you gay.

• 1:54:29Danny Jones?

  The idea that trenbolone makes users gay is a persistent myth and urban legend within bodybuilding communities, often summarized by the phrase more tren, more men.

• 1:54:38Speaker 02

  Oh, nice. Well, hey, you know, maybe it's an excuse. Like, maybe the guy wanted to be gay all the whole time. And he's like, it's that friggin' trend that you gave me.

• 1:54:46Danny Jones?

  Libido and behavioral changes. Trenbolone is known for dramatically increasing libido and may cause high levels of aggression and roid rage. It can make users extremely horny or sweaty, which may lead to acting on.

• 1:55:00Speaker 02

  See, when I think.

• 1:55:01Danny Jones?

  You know, that's an interesting thing about gay dudes is like, they're like, always super horny, right? So maybe gay just means like, you're overly horny.

• 1:55:10Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, it says, it says like uncontroll- like in quotes, uncontrollable sexual urges. So who knows which direction that could be aimed in.

• 1:55:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:55:18Speaker 02

  What if you're like, hey, you know, a butthole's a butthole?

• 1:55:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:55:22Speaker 02

  Cause a butthole is a butthole, right?

• 1:55:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:55:24Speaker 02

  Or am I on too much trend right now?

• 1:55:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:28Danny Jones?

  That's interesting, man.

• 1:55:31Speaker 02

  Well, hey, you should maybe look into taking some tren.

• 1:55:34Danny Jones?

  Psychological impacts. Trenbolone is heavily associated with intense psych- psychological side effects, including anxiety, insomnia, confusion. Uh, while it may affect this. Have you ever tried tren?

• 1:55:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:45Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:55:46Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Not only.

• 1:55:47Danny Jones?

  Did you notice any of this stuff?

• 1:55:48Speaker 02

  Done a lot of it.

• 1:55:49Danny Jones?

  Were you, were you?

• 1:55:51Speaker 02

  I wasn't gay.

• 1:55:52Danny Jones?

  You weren't, you weren't thirsting for dick?

• 1:55:56Speaker 02

  I didn't say that. I didn't act on any of it.

• 1:56:00Danny Jones?

  You didn't act on any of it. Good self-control.

• 1:56:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I was able to resist the urges.

• 1:56:08Danny Jones?

  Oh, God, that's hilarious.

• 1:56:10Speaker 02

  It is funny about, about what it does to your sleep. I know a lot of people that have issues with sleep and then also people talk a lot about, uh, sweating. Like just like, you know, like some people sweat in their sleep. Like, I don't know. I don't know why, but some people just get really sweaty when they sleep. And I never had this issue, but some of my friends would say like, they just wake up and the bed would just be

• 1:56:32Danny Jones?

  Soaked.

• 1:56:32Speaker 02

  soaked with sweat.

• 1:56:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:34Speaker 02

  From being

• 1:56:35Danny Jones?

  I got one of those beds that has the fan that makes it cold.

• 1:56:38Speaker 02

  I know. Isn't that stuff great?

• 1:56:39Danny Jones?

  Cold bed. Oh, it's amazing, dude.

• 1:56:40Speaker 02

  All the little amenities we have now. And then you can't travel anymore. Cause you go to travel, you don't have like your little bed set up and you

• 1:56:47Danny Jones?

  Right, yeah.

• 1:56:48Speaker 02

  I can't sleep on this.

• 1:56:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah. My, my bedtime ritual is so complex. I, I gotta be like in the pocket. It's gotta be like the right, perfect temperature. My pillow's gotta be just right, you know?

• 1:57:02Speaker 02

  You have a whole thing that you get like an eye mask?

• 1:57:04Danny Jones?

  Eye mask. I got the, I got the eye mask, got the mouth tape. I got the nose thing that pulls my nose wider so I can breathe better through my nose.

• 1:57:12Speaker 02

  I saw one the other day.

• 1:57:13Danny Jones?

  Try to get dialed.

• 1:57:13Speaker 02

  Pulls your nose like in, like the bottom of your nose, but I don't, I don't know. You use a nose strip?

• 1:57:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:20Speaker 02

  It helps kind of open your nose up a bit?

• 1:57:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah, just the basic Walgreens nose strip.

• 1:57:23Speaker 02

  Nice.

• 1:57:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've been using mouth tape for a pretty long time. I like that a lot.

• 1:57:28Danny Jones?

  Even with the mustache?

• 1:57:28Speaker 02

  It's hard with the mustache, so I have to use.

• 1:57:33Speaker 02

  The mouth tape that I use, it's, it's actually, it's actually a strip for your nose. It's a hostage tape. It's a strip for your nose, but I just use it like just barely to get the lips.

• 1:57:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:43Speaker 02

  And yeah, every once in a while I lose a mustache hair in the whole, whole setup. Got to be careful.

• 1:57:48Danny Jones?

  I don't like doing the full thing over my whole mouth. I just like doing a little strip down like the center of my mouth.

• 1:57:53Speaker 02

  Just to kind of hold it shut.

• 1:57:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah. That way if I have to, if I have to cough or something, I'm not

• 1:57:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:58Danny Jones?

  Blowing my, my face out, you know?

• 1:58:00Speaker 02

  The other thing I'll do too is I'll sometimes just put a pillow underneath my chin.

• 1:58:05Speaker 02

  It just helps keep, I mean, you're gonna move around, so it's not gonna be as effective as

• 1:58:08Danny Jones?

  Are you a side sleeper or back sleeper? Yeah.

• 1:58:11Speaker 02

  I know some, I don't know if you've ever seen people wear the thing on their head that keeps your jaw shut. Have you ever seen that?

• 1:58:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I have seen that. It's crazy. A lot of people have sleep apnea that do a lot of steroids.

• 1:58:23Speaker 02

  It's huge.

• 1:58:24Danny Jones?

  I've heard, but I don't have that.

• 1:58:27Speaker 02

  Sleep apnea is huge and I don't think they really know why, you know, it's, it's not necessarily like just a steroid thing, but it seems like a large percentage of our population. I mean, obviously there's people that are really heavy. There's people that are obese that have it. And then they claim that some people that take steroids have it because they have like a bigger neck. But I know a lot of people that don't necessarily have like a big neck or big, they're not really big and they still have sleep apnea. So there's not a lot of good solutions for sleep apnea. Like a sleep apnea machine is trash. Like those things are, they, they can be life changing for some people, but I, I think that, I think it's a crutch, you know, and I think

• 1:59:07Speaker 02

  that people should try to figure out a way, they should figure out a way to get off of those things if they can. But there's, there's not other, really, there's not really a lot of good other solutions. It seems like if there is a solution, it would be to when you're way younger, to having like the proper, the proper mouth and the proper like size to be able to breathe easier. But yeah, it's like there's, I said, there's not a lot of solutions to it. It's a shame because it's, I think it's, it's killing people, but it's killing people like super slowly. And it's like, it's in the background. Like we don't know how many people actually die from sleep apnea. But I think Reggie White, the famous football player that played for the

• 1:59:50Speaker 02

  Green Bay Packers, I believe he died of sleep apnea, but like sometimes people actually die in their sleep. They have like a heart attack, I think from sleep apnea.

• 1:59:58Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:59:59Speaker 02

  I forget exactly what happens, but it's an interesting subject because you're like, how is there not, how are we not advanced enough to where there's like a remedy for that?

• 2:00:08Danny Jones?

  Have you ever messed around with the hyperbaric chambers?

• 2:00:12Speaker 02

  I ha, I haven't. I've never been in a hyperbaric chamber before, but we had a guy on the show that talked about it quite a bit and it was interesting. I mean, you're just basically exposing yourself to, I think, quite a bit more oxygen. Have you been?

• 2:00:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I've done quite a bit. I have a friend who has one, has one of the inflatable ones.

• 2:00:30Speaker 02

  You notice anything from it?

• 2:00:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no, I definitely noticed a huge deal from it. I feel, I felt, every time I do it, I feel just like insanely calm.

• 2:00:40Danny Jones?

  And, uh, you know, I have lots of energy too, but I do, I do it for, I think I would, I would do it for like an hour. And I would also do where you have, it had the little intake where you could get the hose that goes in your nose too. So you're getting the oxygen in your nose and you're in that hyperbaric chamber for like an hour. But it's, um, it's a mission to get in and out of that thing, especially when you're by yourself. Cause I would do it with no one else around. I would just like, you know, you have to like, get all the thing, all the shit set up right. You have to like climb in it, make sure it's all zipped up. Make sure it's not getting like overly pressurized or whatever. Like make sure the pressure is right. And it's like, cause it can be very dangerous.

• 2:01:21Speaker 02

  I might be claustrophobic in there. It sounds like.

• 2:01:22Danny Jones?

  It's not that bad.

• 2:01:23Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 2:01:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Some of us, I mean, it depends how claustrophobic you are, but it's, it's not too bad. And you can, you can just unzip it at any time and get right out. But like, you know, if you bring like electronics in there and there's like a spark, you're toast.

• 2:01:35Speaker 02

  Shit.

• 2:01:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Because the oxygen, super oxygenated, uh, air.

• 2:01:39Speaker 02

  You'll like blow up?

• 2:01:40Danny Jones?

  Oh yeah. You'll completely be incinerated. You'll, yeah, explode. Some people like, I used to bring my phone in there with me until I, and then I finally started reading about all these fucking crazy accidents that were happening. I was like, wow. I haven't done it. I haven't done it in a couple of years, but I used to do it like once a week.

• 2:01:53Speaker 02

  That's terrifying.

• 2:01:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:55Speaker 02

  What are some things you think moved the needle for you? Cause we, we did the, uh, we did the sauna and I know you said you had a cold plunge, but that one's being fixed.

• 2:02:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:04Speaker 02

  Seems like you like the sled a lot.

• 2:02:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I love the sled dude. The sled's a game changer. Like.

• 2:02:09Speaker 02

  Tank.

• 2:02:09Danny Jones?

  The tank. Yeah. That, um, the tank.

• 2:02:12Speaker 02

  M3 or whatever. Yeah.

• 2:02:14Danny Jones?

  The torque M3 tank is incredible. I fricking, I don't do any leg workouts anymore. It's all I do is that tank.

• 2:02:19Speaker 02

  That was hard today.

• 2:02:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah. And then Seema got me that gi grip or whatever. So it strengthens your fingers and your hands and on your wrists and all that.

• 2:02:27Speaker 02

  He's got every toy and gadget you could think of.

• 2:02:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah. He, he got me those, those chairs that are on the springs. Have you seen those? The stools?

• 2:02:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. The, uh, hunkering stool.

• 2:02:36Danny Jones?

  I got those in my house. So like whenever we're like, I'm like watching in front of the TV or my kids use it when he's, you know, watching TV or playing video games, he'll sit on that and that's.

• 2:02:45Speaker 02

  Gives you a different option for sitting.

• 2:02:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I love that thing.

• 2:02:49Speaker 02

  I think, uh,

• 2:02:51Danny Jones?

  I've been doing the rice bucket.

• 2:02:52Speaker 02

  Yep. Yeah, the rice bucket's great. I mean, opening your fingers is something you don't really think about that much. And I know for myself, my grip strength improved a ton just by opening my fingers rather than thinking so much about squeezing. Cause I'm like, why is my grip, you know, I have like a thing and you can like test your grip. And I think I got it up to like 180 or something. So now it's pretty good on this grip thing that you can do. But it wasn't great a few years back. And I'm like, why is my grip not good when all I've been doing my whole life is grabbing stuff? And then I started reading more information about the, you know, getting the extensors in there a little bit more and opening your fingers. And I've been practicing that with the little tiny rubber bands that you put on your hands. And then also like with a rice bucket and made a huge difference.

• 2:03:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no, I've been getting like all kinds of like little injuries to my hands and my fingers and my joints and stuff. And doing that rice bucket has really improved that really like made like, I think it's made my, my fingers stronger. And it's definitely helped a lot with jujitsu and I fucking love dude. So my whole life I've, I've always done like very similar type workouts. Like I've never really like, I've never really like switched it up a lot, right? Basically the same kind of like compound movements my whole life. And doing Insema's untapped workout program that he has on his school program, dude, like some of those workouts I've never even seen, heard of, like I'm working out muscles. I didn't even know I had.

• 2:04:19Danny Jones?

  And it's like, it's incredible. I love doing it cause I, I get like crazy cardio from it because it's like, I'm killing myself. Trying just to like, do these hip flexor workouts or you know, like different, like these, uh, the, there's these, these shin shin raises or something.

• 2:04:39Speaker 02

  Tib raises.

• 2:04:40Danny Jones?

  Tibia. Yeah. The tibia raises dude. I had no muscle in my tibia.

• 2:04:44Speaker 02

  Just like leaning up against the wall type.

• 2:04:46Danny Jones?

  Leaning up. Yeah. You lean and get like an angle and you're like on your heels and then you're going down flat and going back up on your heel. And dude, I feel like my shin bones are about to pop out of the front of my legs.

• 2:04:55Speaker 02

  It's so strange, you know, we spent all this time, you know, years ago, like, you know, it's nice to build out your shoulders and you do some lateral raises and you do some of these movements, but then you're like, well, you know, I'd like. I'd like the movements to have like a like a bigger payoff, you know, having big shoulders is is nice. Like it's a cool thing, right? But you want your, you want the effort that you're putting in the gym to have,

• 2:05:20Speaker 02

  I guess, a bigger impact outside of that, like building up your shoulders, not really necessarily going to help you run faster.

• 2:05:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:05:26Speaker 02

  Jump higher, move better, make you look better, which in turn can make you feel better, which is cool. But working your ankles and working your feet and doing like pogo hops and jumping rope and just all these various movements to really, you know, build up strength in the feet. Get your feet so, so that your feet are like going straighter, you know, we talked about that a lot. I send you videos all the time about, you know, it's not necessarily like, hey, don't ever walk with your toes pointed out. It's more like, hey, just be conscious that your toes are out and do stuff like when you're trying to train in the gym, you know, try to have your feet straighter. When you're trying to do stuff where you're trying to produce more force or doing certain things, just,

• 2:06:08Speaker 02

  you don't want to force anything too much, but just be conscious and just try to get your feet a little straighter here and there.

• 2:06:14Danny Jones?

  It is crazy how like Michael Jordan and some of those athletes had like crazy straight feet when they walk. They don't have the duck feet.

• 2:06:22Speaker 02

  It's, it's

• 2:06:23Danny Jones?

  Tom Brady's also one of them, right?

• 2:06:24Speaker 02

  It's a, yeah, it's a characteristic of a lot of really great athletes. And I'm sure if there was somebody on the other side that was like, hey, look at all these great athletes that have their feet pointed out, then we would have, we would have evidence of a lot of

• 2:06:37Danny Jones?

  LeBron James.

• 2:06:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:06:39Danny Jones?

  He's kind of duck footed.

• 2:06:40Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. And LeBron James is a great example because LeBron James' feet are messed up. And so maybe he walks that way because his feet are also messed up. You know, stuffing your feet into like basketball shoes.

• 2:06:51Danny Jones?

  Jordan's feet were really jacked up too, weren't they?

• 2:06:54Speaker 02

  I don't think there is jack, I mean LeBron's, have you ever seen pictures of LeBron's?

• 2:06:58Danny Jones?

  Oh yeah, they're awful.

• 2:06:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's like his pinky toe is grown out of his other toe or whatever.

• 2:07:03Danny Jones?

  Oh my God, yeah.

• 2:07:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can't imagine Jordan's foot.

• 2:07:08Danny Jones?

  Whose foot is out on the very left? Go back, zoom out, but go to the very left. That's LeBron? That's not, that's fake. Is that really his foot?

• 2:07:17Speaker 02

  I think that's his foot.

• 2:07:18Danny Jones?

  Oh, fuck.

• 2:07:20Speaker 02

  You know, now I would also say like.

• 2:07:24Danny Jones?

  What, what, what kind of shit you think LeBron's on, bro?

• 2:07:26Speaker 02

  There's some weird, you know, weird outliers, right? So I think that there might be some weird advantage to that crazy foot that his body is. Well, his body built it for a reason and he's been lasting in the, in the NBA for a long time.

• 2:07:39Danny Jones?

  Could be genetic.

• 2:07:41Speaker 02

  Could 100% be genetic. Who knows? Maybe he came out and his toes were crossed over. It seems like a lot of that has, it seems like a lot of that has to do with shoes, but like his pinky toe is in a really weird place. Like, I can't imagine that's just from shoes.

• 2:07:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man.

• 2:07:56Speaker 02

  That might be something else, but we've never really seen anybody. Like, I don't, I don't even know what that is. I can't even really identify.

• 2:08:07Speaker 02

  We've never really seen anybody like LeBron James. I mean, he's, he's one of a kind. I mean, the closest thing that we've ever had to him was Magic Johnson, you know, and Magic Johnson was, or he's, you know, he's still around, but Magic Johnson, when he played was like 6'8" and probably like 2, probably like 230, like, so he was big. That's, that's a, that's a big person.

• 2:08:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:26Speaker 02

  LeBron is probably the same size. So LeBron is a little bigger than, well, he's quite a bit bigger than Jordan in terms of his like body weight and his, his overall size, but he, he could be the biggest.

• 2:08:41Speaker 02

  He could be the biggest, craziest athlete that we've ever had on this planet, period. If you really think about it, you know, think about like height and size and muscle mass.

• 2:08:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:51Speaker 02

  I mean, what percentage body, I mean, he can't be more than like 7% body fat or something.

• 2:08:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he's been playing for so long, too.

• 2:08:57Speaker 02

  He might even weigh more than 230. I mean, that's a lot of weight to manage regardless of how springy he is or how much he, or how well he can jump. I do think that.

• 2:09:08Speaker 02

  I do think that most of those guys probably do probably take performance enhancing drugs. I don't know if the NBA, maybe they do now, but for a long time, I don't think they had any regulation on a lot of that. I think they had, it's not, it doesn't seem to be a thing, right? For bask- like you don't think about basketball and you don't think about steroids, you know?

• 2:09:29Danny Jones?

  Well, you do think about endurance, though, like similar to like, you know, the, the Tour de France guys.

• 2:09:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and, and high level endurance, maybe like akin to like soccer or something like that, too, where you're sprinting and stopping and sprinting and cutting and doing all these things. And they, they move a lot. They probably don't move as much as a soccer player. Soccer, depending on what position a person plays, they run like seven miles in a game. But maybe a basketball player maybe runs three miles or five miles in a game. That's still a lot. And especially being as big as LeBron James is. What I've always said to people is like, think about how competitive Michael Jordan is. So like, why in the world would he not have used PEDs?

• 2:10:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:10:12Speaker 02

  I mean, other than the fact that like, it was let, maybe it was-

• 2:10:15Danny Jones?

  There's also slamming beers after games.

• 2:10:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. It also was a little less common back then. But, I mean, I'm sure he had access to all the best people. He had, you know, a trainer that, you know, and I just, I don't, I would, you'd have to like, give me reasons on why you think that he didn't take them.

• 2:10:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:10:34Speaker 02

  For me, for me to buy it, but-

• 2:10:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:37Speaker 02

  And I think that people just think that all steroids are the same. So they think that steroids just automatically mean that you're going to get like big and jacked and bulky.

• 2:10:45Danny Jones?

  Right. Well, what is the blood doping shit called that Lance Armstrong was doing?

• 2:10:52Danny Jones?

  That gives you incredible endurance. It's called EPO. Yeah, that's what it is.

• 2:10:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:57Danny Jones?

  What specifically does that do?

• 2:10:59Speaker 02

  EPO, I, I believe that EPO increases your red blood cell count.

• 2:11:04Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:11:05Speaker 02

  So it allows you to get more oxygen, I believe, to your muscles. Maybe you can look it up because I'm not 100% sure, but yeah, EPO, EPO supposedly is like a huge advantage.

• 2:11:17Speaker 02

  Now, you know, again, the, all these people, they still have to put in the work. They still have to do all this stuff. And I think that's the missing component of the GLP-1 drugs and stuff is that like, you're not just going to take this thing and just like lose a bunch of weight. There's a cascade of disciplines that you need that will go along with that. And same thing with somebody taking a drug like EPO or somebody taking a performance enhancing drug. It's like, it doesn't just do a bunch of stuff to you. We're not there quite yet. We might get to that point. I did mention to you that James Bond peptide.

• 2:11:49Danny Jones?

  Oh yeah. What's that one?

• 2:11:51Speaker 02

  It's called W V E, uh, double, double O seven. The James Bond peptide, some people refer to it as. And so far in some trials, it has put on, I think like four kilograms, which is about eight pounds of muscle mass while also reducing body fat quite a bit. And from what I remember, I think it was not only, it was like body fat and visceral fat specifically. It wasn't like, you know, with some of these other tests and studies they've done, I think. They, they, they've really measured weight a lot. They're like, oh, people lost a lot of weight.

• 2:12:28Speaker 02

  Which is great, but they also are losing an incredible amount of muscle. In this case, not only did they lose body fat. And not only did they keep their muscle mass, they also increased their muscle mass. So, and I think it was in like two months or something. Again, maybe that's something we can kind of like look.

• 2:12:45Danny Jones?

  How, how would Steve look up this James Bond peptide?

• 2:12:48Speaker 02

  W V as in Victor, E as in Eddie, O seven.

• 2:12:54Danny Jones?

  The double O seven peptide usually referred to as the W V E double O seven, a wave, life sciences, S I R N A, targeting obesity.

• 2:13:08Danny Jones?

  Okay. I'm not going to try to read all that shit.

• 2:13:10Speaker 02

  There's so much.

• 2:13:10Danny Jones?

  Reduces visceral fat while preserving muscle. Whoa.

• 2:13:15Speaker 02

  Right? Super peptide.

• 2:13:19Danny Jones?

  That's wild. So, so it's therapeutic for obesity, targeting an mRNA to reduce active N E, a protein associated with obesity.

• 2:13:34Speaker 02

  Oh, and the dose was, the dose was like, like it was only, you only took a shot like a couple of times, improved body composition and potential for once or twice yearly dosing.

• 2:13:47Danny Jones?

  Mimics vascular endothelial growth factor? What does that mean?

• 2:13:57Speaker 02

  I would assume that that is probably heart protective, I would imagine.

• 2:14:02Danny Jones?

  Boosts your skin's self-defense against oxidative stress.

• 2:14:07Speaker 05

  So these are different variants. This is B C double O seven.

• 2:14:11Danny Jones?

  Oh, these are different types?

• 2:14:12Speaker 05

  P seven, this is P G double O seven.

• 2:14:14Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 2:14:15Speaker 05

  He was talking about W V E double O seven.

• 2:14:17Danny Jones?

  Find us like a, find us like a visual for this peptide. Go, go up top to images.

• 2:14:22Speaker 02

  Click on it, yeah.

• 2:14:26Speaker 02

  Oh, there's that guy that talks about it a lot. The guy with the backwards hat, he talks about it a bunch.

• 2:14:30Danny Jones?

  Oh, really? Let's see what he's got to say.

• 2:14:35Speaker 02

  Oh, it's me talking about him. It's me.

• 2:14:37Danny Jones?

  Is it really?

• 2:14:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz I, I.

• 2:14:40Danny Jones?

  Don't copyright strike me, bro.

• 2:14:42Speaker 03

  Molecule W V E double O seven. It's like the James Bond of weight loss. By day eighty-five of your one injection, patients had an average of a nine point four percent reduction in visceral fat. They had a four point five percent reduction in total body fat. That's a three point two percent increase.

• 2:15:04Danny Jones?

  What?

• 2:15:05Speaker 03

  In muscle mass. Did you hear me?

• 2:15:08Speaker 02

  I'm excited about this. I'm excited about the possibilities. I'm also excited about just bringing to the forefront how important body composition.

• 2:15:15Speaker 05

  You can shut it down probably cuz I probably just blab on.

• 2:15:18Danny Jones?

  That's bonkers. Okay, go back to Google Images. I wanna see what that diagram showed. Go to the far left one.

• 2:15:29Danny Jones?

  Punch that. Okay. Okay, it exerts its biological activity by binding to VEGFR2 similarly to VEGF and inducing, okay, this is fucking Greek to me. Extracellular cell membrane intercellular.

• 2:15:48Danny Jones?

  Okay, this is meaningless to me. I can't read this language.

• 2:15:52Speaker 02

  May cause homosexual tendencies, what?

• 2:15:56Danny Jones?

  So that's bonkers. So it increases, go to that chart.

• 2:15:59Speaker 02

  I'm on it right now, bro.

• 2:16:02Danny Jones?

  Look at that chart, let's see.

• 2:16:05Danny Jones?

  Okay, alright. Whatever the fuck that means.

• 2:16:08Speaker 02

  Bunch of numbers.

• 2:16:09Danny Jones?

  Wow. So it's like a, it's like a IGF peptide. It was like, it's like, um.

• 2:16:15Speaker 02

  I don't know, I don't know what.

• 2:16:16Danny Jones?

  IGF1, but it also increases muscle.

• 2:16:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:23Speaker 02

  It seems to have something in it that is allowing people to gain some muscle mass. I mean, there's, there's gonna be fallout from all this stuff.

• 2:16:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah, there's gotta be. I'm worried about what's gonna, what we're gonna start seeing in like 10 to 15 years from this stuff.

• 2:16:36Speaker 02

  That might be how long it takes.

• 2:16:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:16:39Speaker 02

  I do know like there's issues with bone density with.

• 2:16:42Danny Jones?

  With IGF1 stuff?

• 2:16:43Speaker 02

  With the GLP-1.

• 2:16:44Danny Jones?

  GLP-1. I'm not saying IGF.

• 2:16:48Speaker 02

  IGF1 helps people to hold on to muscle mass, I think, a little bit, but the, yeah, I think that,

• 2:16:55Speaker 02

  again, I think that if someone, if someone's to take some of these drugs and they're 400 pounds, 300 pounds, and really try to make a change,

• 2:17:04Speaker 02

  I think it can be really helpful because it can calm down. Food noise is in reference to just a constant calling out, the constant tugging of food calling to you. Uh, almost like, almost like one of your kids being like dad, dad, dad, or mom, mom, mom, right? Like over and over, like it's fine. Certain parts of the day, it's great. You watch a kid jump in the pool and you watch him do the same, hey, isn't that great? And you're like, hey, he did the same thing for the last hour and eventually it gets to be, it gets to be like overwhelming, right? And so same thing with food. Some people that have food addiction, I would just call it. They have a hard time of really blocking that out. They have a hard time of feeling full.

• 2:17:47Speaker 02

  Even after they tried a couple of tricks, even if they like ate an apple, drank some water, even if they, you know, ate something fairly healthy for them, even if they ate early in the day, they're still are getting this constant like tug.

• 2:17:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:18:00Speaker 02

  And so this helps calm down and flatten out some of that noise. And that makes it easier for them to eat less. And then over a period of time, they should be able to lose some weight. But the type of weight that they lose is really important. And so it's critical that people that are going to go on those drugs, they also need a RX to lift. They need to, they need to go to the gym. And maybe a drug like that maybe could assist some people that might be in a worse predicament, in worse circumstance where going to the gym maybe at the moment isn't an option because maybe they're really old or maybe they may they're missing a leg or they, you know,

• 2:18:42Speaker 02

  are in a lot of pain or whatever the particular situation is. I'm sure there's going to be people that are perfectly healthy that take it that are just like, I just want to be more jacked and shredded.

• 2:18:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:52Speaker 02

  But yeah, the jury's out on all this stuff and it's going to take time. But I do think so far it seems like there's ways to take some of these drugs in ways that seem responsible for now. But I'm sure just like as always, there'll probably be a biological tax somewhere down the line.

• 2:19:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah, definitely. Anyways, thanks for doing this, bro. This has been fucking awesome.

• 2:19:15Speaker 02

  Thank you. I appreciate it.

• 2:19:17Danny Jones?

  Tell everyone about the podcast, everything else where they can find all your stuff.

• 2:19:22Speaker 02

  I gotta send you some steak shakes and stuff too. I don't know if you, have you ever tried them?

• 2:19:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you gave them to me last time.

• 2:19:26Speaker 02

  Oh, sick.

• 2:19:27Danny Jones?

  They're fucking awesome.

• 2:19:28Speaker 02

  I gotta send some more out to you. Yeah. If you want to check out the steak shake or total carnivore shake, those are protein shakes that I make that have liver, kidney, heart, spleen, pancreas in them, but I made them taste good. And you can get all that at markbellslingshot.com and then you can also see my invention, the slingshot, which some people know me for, supportive upper body device for bench press, pushups, dips. And then I saw that you have some of the other equipment in the gym. I make like handle attachments and all kinds of other things that you can check out on that website. And then I've had a podcast for 12 years. So check out Mark Bell's Power Project. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.

• 2:20:04Danny Jones?

  Dude, love it every time. I'll link everything below. Good night, folks.

• 2:20:08Speaker 06

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone and including dental, vision and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal. At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone and including dental, vision and hearing coverage in every plan.

• 2:20:51Speaker 06

  And the best part is every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.