Willing to Risk Death Daily: Pony Express National Historic Trail

Not many of us would accept a job that risked life and limb, but for a brief moment in time, young men did just that - just to carry the mail. It may have only been in operation for 18 months, but the legacy of the Pony Express has lasted generations. A 2,000 mile horseback ride from Missouri to California posed risks of all kinds, but with no telegraph wires or trains connecting the coasts, brave men and their trusty steeds stepped up and battled the elements, warring nations and each other to keep the nation connected. Banff Film Festival Tickets The Pony Express Re-Ride / Letters! For a full list of our sources, visit http://npadpodcast.com/episodesFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials at:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to the week’s partners! Ka'Chava: Go to https://kachava.com and use code NPAD. New customers get twenty dollars off an order of two bags or more, January 1st through 31st! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

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• 0:58Danielle LaRock?

  Existing here on the cusp of 2026, we are constantly bombarded with information. What was once not so long ago, weekly updates about current events, has evolved into play-by-plays of real-time happenings as they unfold.

• 1:14Danielle LaRock?

  Global headlines splash across the daily papers. Neighbors post consistently on community webpages. News stations offer 24-hour programming, YouTubers livestream, and our phones constantly ping as texts flood in from friends and family. We take live Zoom meetings, FaceTime long-distance lovers, get in fierce comment wars, cycle through emails, and scroll through social media in an endless loop of checking messages and staying up to date on everything from the political climate to cookie recipes through the lens of a For You page. In short, much of the world is interlinked. And this global connection shows face so frequently and so consistently,

• 1:57Danielle LaRock?

  it's lost to us just how profound that is. No one batted an eye when in 2022, after the infamous slap heard across the world was broadcasted on the Oscars, that within mere seconds, memes had been created and had gone viral by the end of the show. More seriously, we utilize this interconnectedness to stay informed of the atrocities unfolding beyond our borders and within them. We have come to expect this level of connectivity, but that desire is not new. People have always wanted to be in touch, share news, whether it be joyful, entertaining, or devastating. But for most of our history, we had to do something nearly unbearable to think of today. We had to wait.

• 2:42Danielle LaRock?

  People put quill to parchment or pen to paper and sent messages off into the world via couriers, birds, ships, trains, and wagons, knowing full well it would be weeks, if not months, before their news was delivered. We have always desired connection. And not so long ago, in a small but memorable chapter of US history, there was a group of individuals who straddled their horses, stuffed their saddlebags with mail, and risked their lives to deliver it. Welcome to National Park After Dark.

• 3:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, how am I going to live without overnight shipping?

• 3:39Danielle LaRock?

  You can't anymore.

• 3:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  I can't.

• 3:41Danielle LaRock?

  I simply must.

• 3:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  How would I survive? I see a pair of socks I want online. I want them at my house tomorrow.

• 3:49Danielle LaRock?

  And I want it now.

• 3:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 3:50Danielle LaRock?

  Isn't that... Daddy, I want it. I want it now. Isn't that verruga from Willy Wonka?

• 3:59Danielle LaRock?

  Well, hello everyone. Welcome back to National Park After Dark. My name is Danielle.

• 4:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  And I'm Cassie. We're so excited to have you all here with us today, but before we get started, we have a very, very exciting announcement because we have a really fun event that we want to share with you all. And it's actually happening in my home state in Vermont, which is really exciting. We are going to be hosting the 2026 BAMP Film Festival at the Flynn Theater in Burlington, Vermont, which is my neck of the woods and I'm really, really excited for. It's going to be happening in February. So the event is the 6th and 7th at the Flynn Theater. And each night, we're going to have a collection of films and different sets of awesome raffle prizes. The films being showcased focus on adrenaline fueled action breathtaking landscapes

• 4:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  and stories that stir the soul, all outdoor based.

• 4:49Danielle LaRock?

  All outdoor based and it's an event unlike anything we've ever participated in before. You know, usually we're hosting trips and doing wilderness first aid and this is outdoor adjacent, but just a totally different type of event. And we're really excited to be a part of it. The films that are being showcased, like Cassie said, all outdoor based. We have gotten the preview link, so we've gotten a sneak peek at them. They include stories from first descents and whitewater thrills to personal triumphs and impossible journeys. This year's lineup is a tribute to half a century of pushing boundaries and living boldly. We are so excited to be hosting and emceeing the event and we really want you to come. Come join us.

• 5:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  And not to get this confused with, we are not, this isn't a podcasting event. This is a film festival that, that totally involves the outdoors that we get to kind of host, which is really, really fun.

• 5:43Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So we are emceeing the event. We're not the main event.

• 5:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes, but we're there. We're there the whole time.

• 5:49Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, we're in it.

• 5:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  We're in it.

• 5:50Danielle LaRock?

  We're involved.

• 5:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  We're out there. You can hang out with us.

• 5:53Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, tickets are available right now. If you are so inclined to come, we're going to be there both nights. So the sixth and the seventh, we're going to have like a merch table. Um, and we're just obviously going to be mingling around. So please come if you're in the area or if you ever wanted to visit Vermont in the winter. Maybe now this is your sign to do that.

• 6:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  This is your sign. Vermont in the winter is awesome.

• 6:19Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So we would love to see you there. And speaking of, this is the second part here, and then we'll get to the story. But this is just a little, this is another sign, maybe a little piece of advice heads up. That speaking of like seeing you out and about and maybe getting some time together. Like we mentioned in the newsletter earlier this month, if you're not part of the newsletter, we usually share news there first, but we are putting some things together that you will know about very soon. But our Patreon community will know about them first and they will have first access to said things. So if you have been thinking about getting a Patreon subscription or are just like holding off for the perfect moment,

• 7:02Danielle LaRock?

  just saying you might want to consider it.

• 7:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Twenty six might be the time.

• 7:06Danielle LaRock?

  Right. So, and that's all I'll say about that for now, because I have so much more to say. This episode is so fun. I have been waiting so long to tell the story. And it's because it's something I'm so passionate about.

• 7:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mail.

• 7:20Danielle LaRock?

  And that's the postal service.

• 7:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  You got mail.

• 7:25Danielle LaRock?

  People are gonna be like, oh my god.

• 7:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  And blue's clues.

• 7:27Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah.

• 7:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  You got mail. And then the little mailbox would open and yeah.

• 7:33Danielle LaRock?

  That might be where my love of getting mail began, but who knows? I think that guy has a podcast now, Steve.

• 7:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Does he?

• 7:41Danielle LaRock?

  His name was Steve, right?

• 7:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 7:43Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Now he does like adult advice.

• 7:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Cool.

• 7:48Danielle LaRock?

  Or something.

• 7:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Good for him.

• 7:49Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. He's really stretched that his. His career, yeah.

• 7:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Blues Clues was a little bit, like I was a little too old when it first came out, but I would kind of secretly watch it with the younger kids because I was like, I know I'm too old for this, but it's kind of, it's kind of got me hooked a little bit.

• 8:08Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I'm interested.

• 8:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 8:10Danielle LaRock?

  Well, so yes, today we are going to be talking about the mail and I want to set the scene first with a little bit of a story. On November 7th, 1860, Richard Cleve was waiting for a message. Sitting outside in the cold, he picked dirt from his boots and his eyes anxiously shifted between the telegraph office and the vast open plains to the west. He was waiting for an important message, likely the most he would ever carry. By 1860, the telegraph was reshaping the spread of information in the United States, but telegraph wires had not yet crossed the country and neither had railroads, meaning that if you wanted to send a message from coast to coast, it could take weeks, if not months.

• 8:54Danielle LaRock?

  Telegraph lines were making their way west, but for now, they reached only as far as Fort Kearney in south central Nebraska where Richard Cleve was waiting. Richard was an employee of the Central Overland California and Pike's Peak Express Company, a remarkable service that promised to carry mail between St. Louis, Missouri and Sacramento, California in just 10 days. A distance of nearly 2,000 miles traveled almost entirely on horseback by men just like Richard. When Richard signed up, he knew three things. The pay was good, the work was hard, and the job was dangerous. Riders spent hours in the saddle, traveling 75 miles in a day before handing off mail to the next rider and repeating the same route in reverse.

• 9:37Danielle LaRock?

  They rode day or night, rain, shine, or snow, over mountains and through deserts, all the while, to the best of their ability, avoiding horse thieves, outlaws, and full-scale conflicts between the US, Mormon settlers, and indigenous groups. When Cleve looked out at the western horizon, did he worry about being bucked from his horse and breaking something, about getting lost, robbed, or struck by an arrow? All of these things and many more happened to riders just like him. But all of a sudden, the telegraph operator burst through the door. The results are in. Abraham Lincoln is president. Richard climbed up on his horse, carrying news of the most important election of his lifetime. With a flick of his reins, he rode out into the darkness and unbeknownst to him,

• 10:21Danielle LaRock?

  or any of the message carrying riders of the time, straight into iconic American Western lore. So if you did not catch on by now, this is the story of the Pony Express.

• 10:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Not to be confused with the Polar Express.

• 10:36Danielle LaRock?

  Thank you so much for saying that because this is the entire reason I decided to do that, this episode right now.

• 10:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Because of me.

• 10:45Danielle LaRock?

  Because of you. And I was, I was racking my brain, trying to remember when you said that or how it came up.

• 10:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was relatively recently.

• 10:54Danielle LaRock?

  I think it was sometime over the summer, maybe. And yeah, I don't know. You, you were like, I know this, this is the Polar Express. And for, and we were referring, I was trying to refer to the Pony Express. I don't know, whatever. Either way, this is happening because of you. So thank you.

• 11:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  You're welcome.

• 11:11Danielle LaRock?

  For confusing it with the Polar Express.

• 11:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Can I ask what park this is?

• 11:15Danielle LaRock?

  It's a National Historic Trail.

• 11:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 11:18Danielle LaRock?

  And we'll get into the different stops and points of interest along this.

• 11:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  So this isn't a freebie. It is within the National Park Service.

• 11:28Danielle LaRock?

  This is not even close to a freebie.

• 11:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Cool. Love it.

• 11:32Danielle LaRock?

  Yep. So before we go on, I just have to say like, yes, first of all, thank you so much for the inspiration.

• 11:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  You're welcome. For gracing you with my presence.

• 11:45Danielle LaRock?

  I honestly couldn't do this without you.

• 11:50Danielle LaRock?

  So thank you for so many different things. But also, I really wanted to end out the year on a story that, not that I'm not excited about other topics, but this one is just like fun. And it's interesting because I feel like at some point in time, probably around the same time, we learned about the Bermuda Triangle and quicksand and the sun exploding. We also learned about the Pony Express and then just brain dumped it.

• 12:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  We were too busy stop dropping and rolling to remember it.

• 12:19Danielle LaRock?

  Or to really, yeah, learn more about it. And so I had just very rudimentary knowledge about this chapter in history and it's a lot more and a lot less at the same time that I would have thought.

• 12:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's super confusing. It's a lot more and a lot less.

• 12:37Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And we'll get into it. So.

• 12:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Great.

• 12:40Danielle LaRock?

  Don't worry. But also, I just, I got a thing from the mail. I really do. I think that letter writing is a lost art. I keep almost every single letter ever. I mean, my mom, I have this huge bin that you usually use for clothes under my bed in my mom's house, like my childhood bedroom of and I'm not talking about like, letters that people have personally wrote to me that have to be pages long. There are anything from cards that someone just signs like, love Cassie on, or like, like a Hallmark card or something. I just, I really think that having, taking time and intention to

• 13:25Danielle LaRock?

  write out a card or a note, buy postage, stick it on there, send it off. It's just, it feels so much better than getting an email or a text.

• 13:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 13:36Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 13:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  And mail has been so romanticized, especially throughout wars. You know, a lot of times when you look back, or a lot of books and movies really showcase this too. When men went off to war, the only way that women and men communicated, or lovers or whoever they were communicated families, was through mail and through letters and handwritten things. And it was kind of the small view into people's lives that otherwise you had no contact and communication with. So I think that letters are really special, but they've also been very much romanticized throughout history as well.

• 14:16Danielle LaRock?

  Yep. So, um, yeah, I guess let's talk about the Pony Express, because there's so much to say. I got, I went off on a couple of side quests here, so buckle up. Okay?

• 14:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Great. I'm ready.

• 14:32Danielle LaRock?

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• 15:17Danielle LaRock?

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• 15:55Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, so, the Central Overland California and Pikes Peak Express Company, better known as The Pony Express, was an iconic mail service that carried news 2,000 miles across the country through Kansas, Nebraska, Wyoming, Utah, Nevada, and California before telegraphs or railroads had closed the gap. Most impressive of all, they promised mail would be delivered across the roadless and largely lawless West at an unheard-of speed of just 10 days. Today, "The Pony," as they call it, has become an icon of the Old West, but that's not because it lasted very long. It was out of business after just 18 months, and the company records were later lost in a fire. Can you believe?

• 16:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  It doesn't seem sustainable.

• 16:41Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, well, it wasn't.

• 16:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  10 days, cross-country, horseback.

• 16:46Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. I just, I think that's so interesting. That was the first thing that I was taken aback by because I feel like when you learn about something like this, learning about the Pony Express has stuck with me for my whole life. I would have thought it would have been a longer lasting, more permanent operation. But after just eighteen months, it was already, it fizzled out.

• 17:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's interesting that this piece of history has stuck with you for so long because for me, I've heard of the Pony Express before, but that's kind of it. Like, oh, cool mail. It's kind of for me, but I am very intrigued to learn more because now that you've outlined it, I'm like, wait. This sounds very exciting.

• 17:28Danielle LaRock?

  Well, and I'm so glad because on one hand, my first initial reaction, as with a lot of things that you're like, yeah, I don't know, or I've never heard of that, or I'm never crossed my desk, you know? My first reaction is I'm taken aback and I'm kind of insulted somehow. Like, what do you mean? But this is what makes the podcast so great because I get to share things with you that I feel like are kind of common knowledge. It wouldn't be as exciting if you're like, yeah, I know all about it. Like, okay, then why am I even telling you?

• 17:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, but I feel like your stuff that you're like, this is common knowledge. I'm like, this is a niche that not everyone knows about.

• 18:06Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, you do remind me.

• 18:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Everyone knows about this. I have been, like, I've known about this since I could read. Like, okay, I've literally never heard about it my entire life.

• 18:15Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, well, I'm happy about that. So like I mentioned, not only did it last around eighteen months, but all the official company records were burned up in a fire. So the stories that we are left with and that remain today are equal parts history and myth, legends of real men who overcame incredible odds, and the lies of others who later hoped to cash in on the fame of the Pony Express. So here is your up top warning. Everything deserves to be taken with a grain of salt and nothing that I say can be used against me later about this, okay, being true or not.

• 18:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  It may or may not be true. Welcome.

• 18:53Danielle LaRock?

  Welcome to National Park After Dark. Okay, so in the middle of the 19th century, America was a nation divided. Northern and southern states were fighting in the halls of Congress over the future of slavery, and the election of Abraham Lincoln, who many southern politicians saw as radical, didn't seem like it would settle the matter. And all the while, settlers with their own conflicting views began moving out west, attempting to start new lives on the vast and unforgiving American frontier. Earlier travelers would reach the west via steamboat, traveling all the way around South America in a journey that could take upwards of six months. In time, wagon trains took pioneers along routes like the Oregon Trail. But while more and more settlers were arriving in the west, particularly in Gold Rush, California,

• 19:37Danielle LaRock?

  there was no way to quickly share news across the country. As I mentioned, railroad networks had begun to expand on both coasts, although there was nothing to yet connect them, at least not yet. You know the advice people give in business when they're like, "Think of something that the world needs or that you would like to see in the world, but it does not yet exist. Think of that, whatever that is, and then create it." Like, that's a lot, that's how National Park After Dark came to be, you know? And that's kind of how the Pony Express came to be as well. There were three entrepreneurs, William H. Russell, Alexander Majors, and William B. Waddell, and they had begun working together, shipping goods for the US Army, and began setting their sights higher.

• 20:21Danielle LaRock?

  Like, what else could they be doing together? William Waddell was kind of like the accountant of the group who worked in the office to keep affairs in order. Alexander Majors, an ox-driving man with firsthand knowledge and experience in the shipping business, kept things moving along on the ground. And William Russell was the ideas man. He was the ideas guy. He was always thinking, brainstorming, "What can we do next? Better, greater, better." And his ideas would lead them to a lot of glory, but would also land him in jail. But that's for later on down the line here. So we'll get back to that. It was Russell's idea to launch the Pony Express, an extraordinarily long and ambitious delivery route

• 21:03Danielle LaRock?

  designed to secure them a multimillion-dollar government mail contract. In his mind, the only way to make money delivering mail was getting the government to pay you to do it. This route, he argued, would be the key to landing a contract and getting millions of dollars from the government. Millions. They'd be rich. After that, they would have a foothold across the frontier. And with any luck, they could turn that into a regional shipping monopoly, an empire that could force out other competition. And there was some precedence for this, like this wasn't a new or novel idea, because you may have heard of the company American Express, AMX. Everyone wants those, like, don't they have like some card?

• 21:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  The gold card?

• 21:45Danielle LaRock?

  It's like weighted or something. Is that the AMX?

• 21:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think so.

• 21:49Danielle LaRock?

  It's like made of diamonds or something?

• 21:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  We don't have it, clearly.

• 21:52Danielle LaRock?

  Clearly, we haven't hit that level yet.

• 21:57Danielle LaRock?

  So AMX was founded in upstate New York as a freighting and delivery company in 1850, and they leveraged the Great Lakes to expand their business. Two of their co-founders also started Wells Fargo, which offered similar services across California. Each worked alongside the US Postal Service, but advertised faster delivery and delivered to a wider range of locations, which carved out monopolies in their respective regions. Russell argued that they could follow the same model, and perhaps reluctantly, the other two guys, Majors and Waddle, agreed, although they seemed sure that the business was gonna lose them money. To be fair, they had plenty of cause to doubt Russell. Sure, this sort of thing had been done before, and clearly it was gaining success back then

• 22:41Danielle LaRock?

  in 1850, and I mean, American Express and Wells Fargo, to this day, remain huge operations. But for them, this type of, you know, connecting, you know, coast to coast had never, never been done before, especially over a route so long and treacherous. And just looking at it at face value, there were three significant obstacles that they were concerned about. The first was Mother Nature. Across 2,000 miles between St. Joseph, Missouri and Sacramento, California, it would need to traverse the Rocky Mountains and the Sierra Nevada ranges, not to mention everything else in between. Riders would be faced with pouring rain in some places and complete lack of water in

• 23:24Danielle LaRock?

  others, punishing heat, freezing cold, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, Mother Nature things. So that's one. The first thing is like, okay, well, anything can happen weather wise and conditions wise. And this is a long way. And the second was violence. The frontier was a dangerous place, full of outlaws and vagabonds, but also US sanctioned conflicts. Settlers and soldiers were fighting with native tribes across the West. And while Russell didn't know it at the time, like, right when their idea was taking root and starting, the army would soon be fighting with Mormon settlers in Utah, which was a huge portion of their trail that are their route that

• 24:03Danielle LaRock?

  they were gonna run. And I had to take this time to talk about American Primeval, because I don't know if I've talked about that on the show yet. Have I? I don't think so. Have you watched it? No. Have you heard of it? I've heard of it. I've seen like the little preview. Okay, yeah, so American Primeval, it's a Western historical drama. It's like a little limited series thing that was released earlier this year on Netflix. And it's inspired by the real life, the real life Utah War and events surrounding the Mountain Meadows massacre, which clearly is all about Brigham Young and the growing tensions in the West. I have conflicting

• 24:42Danielle LaRock?

  feelings about one scene in particular in this. I'm sure there's like people who really know Mormon history, or like, the history of this particular chapter may have more bones to pick. But there's a scene in it. So basically, the show follows like this woman and her young child going west during this period of time and running into all these different conflicts between, you know, the Mormon wars and indigenous groups and all that. And they're fighting for their lives the entire time. But there's a scene that they're like trapped in this cabin, and the walls are literally being ripped apart by vicious wolves trying to get into to the cabin to get to them, to eat them. What? Like, what?

• 25:26Danielle LaRock?

  In Utah? In somewhere along the the Western landscape, because they were heading to California. I didn't know wolves could rip apart cabins. Me neither, until American Primeval came along and changed everything for me. Yeah, I was like, what the? Guys, I'm like, you had me every, this was so good. I was so, and I think the thing that kills me is it was following, like, it was so historically accurate in different scenes and obviously the whole premise. And then they just took a hard left.

• 25:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  And then I threw that in there.

• 26:00Danielle LaRock?

  Threw that in there. They did that with Franken, the new Frankenstein too. Have you seen that?

• 26:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, I haven't.

• 26:05Danielle LaRock?

  There's a scene where there's just like a pack of bloodthirsty wolves that are just relentlessly tearing apart people. Anyway.

• 26:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's why people are so afraid of wolves is because they watch things like that.

• 26:19Danielle LaRock?

  I'm like, God. And I don't know, I, I hate to say this, that I don't know the true, like, Frankenstein, Mary Shelley OG version, since we covered her on Watcher Cook, but I never, I haven't read Frankenstein yet. And maybe there is a scene where, or descriptions of wolves. And it's like, in that case, if you're mirroring the original work, I feel like that should be included.

• 26:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 26:43Danielle LaRock?

  But if it's not, I'm pissed.

• 26:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  I feel like I have read Frank, Frankenstein in English class in like ninth grade or something, but I just don't remember it in detail. I know it was a required reading at some point in my life.

• 26:57Danielle LaRock?

  Well, I don't know. It just feels like, I think we can kind of move on from that whole trap of bloodthirsty wolves all the time. Like, let's, we know more, so we should do differently. All right, anyway, back to the story.

• 27:16Danielle LaRock?

  Last Christmas, Al bought me a record player and since then I've gotten really into collecting records, but I also wanted the whole setup to look beautiful in our home. So when I saw the Joe Kuna vinyl media unit from Article, I knew exactly where it was going. And when it arrived, I was really impressed with the quality. And it's one of those pieces that's just as functional as it is nice to look at. That's really what Article does so well. They make it easy to create a stylish home with high quality furniture at a really great price. Their collection includes everything from sofas and sectionals to dining tables, chairs, bedroom furniture, storage.

• 27:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  Outdoor pieces and decor with a lot of mid-century modern coastal and Scandi-inspired designs. And everything is curated to work together, so you can mix and match pieces without feeling like you need to be an interior designer to make your home feel cohesive. If you do want some help, Article even offers free interior design services and their customer care team is available seven days a week. They also offer fast, affordable shipping across the US and Canada, professional assembly options, and a 30-day satisfaction guarantee, so you can feel confident ordering furniture online. Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit article.com/NPAD and the discount

• 28:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  will automatically be applied at checkout. That's article.com/NPAD for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

• 28:43Danielle LaRock?

  Back to the obstacles. So there's three: Mother Nature, the violence, and then the third was money, which money rules everything around me, you know, as a famous rapper once said. Who was that?

• 28:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know.

• 28:58Danielle LaRock?

  Oh my god.

• 29:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  What?

• 29:01Danielle LaRock?

  Do you know what I'm saying?

• 29:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  I know the song you're talking about, but...

• 29:05Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, Wu-Tang Clan.

• 29:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Ah.

• 29:07Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. So, as they know, and as you know, money is everything. So from the beginning, the pony's promise of the 10-day delivery got a ton of publicity. Like, that was almost unheard of, to send mail that distance in just 10 days. But paying customers would prove few and far between. People celebrated the idea of this lightning-fast route. Lightning-fast 10 days.

• 29:33Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, we'll circle back to that.

• 29:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Overnight shipping, please.

• 29:37Danielle LaRock?

  It's like, if it's not here in 48 hours, max, I'm gonna fucking lose it. But few people would actually pay the $5 needed to send a letter, which was at the time equivalent to two to three days' worth of pay for the average worker. Like, that's a lot of money to send.

• 29:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  That is a lot of money for a letter.

• 29:58Danielle LaRock?

  As a result, Russell, Majors, and Waddle would struggle to keep their doors open. But if they had any hope of getting it off the ground, they first needed to win a government contract. They had to prove their route would work. So on April 3rd, 1860, the Pony Express officially launched, and its first rider was set out westbound from St. Joseph, Missouri. So let's follow the route of the Pony Express, the obstacles it faced, and the people who worked to overcome them, starting with the first: nature. How did they plan a service that could carry letters 2,000 miles in just 10 days? The first step, of course, was hiring pony riders. They needed men who were both physically and mentally tough, who could spend a whole day in the saddle, and were willing to face danger.

• 30:42Danielle LaRock?

  And most importantly of all, they needed to be light, which usually meant they were looking to hire young men slash, like, older children. Like, teenagers. There was a famous advertisement for the Pony Express that sums things up pretty well. It read, quote, "Wanted: Young, skinny, wiry fellows not over 18. Must be expert riders willing to risk death daily. Orphans preferred." What? Unfortunately, that's messed up. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you slice it, that ad was made up years after the Pony Express went out of business, but the idea holds true.

• 31:26Danielle LaRock?

  A typical rider was a frontier kid in his teens or early twenties who stood around 5'4" and weighed 110 pounds. So...

• 31:35Danielle LaRock?

  They had to get there.

• 31:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, if you think about it, jockeys are really small.

• 31:39Danielle LaRock?

  Yes. Yep, they are. One example was an employee named Johnny Fry. To describe Fry, the local paper wrote, tough and wiry. He was light as a cat. He led a sixty to seventy mile route between Missouri and Kansas and along the way became a sort of local celebrity of the area. And the stories basically paint him as like a heartthrob and ladies and young women knew his route because he did it so often.

• 32:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:08Danielle LaRock?

  They would like stand outside and wait for him to pass pie by and like give him things. And there's this one story that's I think you'll get a kick out of. In one of these stories, a woman had tried to hand, was doing the same thing. They're like, oh, Johnny, Johnny boy is coming. I'm gonna stand outside and wait and I'm gonna give him something to remember me by. So she waited outside, tried to hand him a pastry, a cruller, and which was like a deep fried pastry, similar to a donut, that today, if you're a donut enthusiast, it's kind of like twisted and kind of like braided almost into a donut instead of just like a plain round donut, has like a light airy texture. But at the

• 32:49Danielle LaRock?

  time, back then, they were shaped like logs. But she, when she handed to, handed it to him, she noticed he had a hard time. And this is according to the news, okay, or the legend. She noticed he had a hard time holding it while he rode away. Like, what's hard to hold about it? It's a straight piece of, it's a donut.

• 33:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 33:08Danielle LaRock?

  It's just like a stick.

• 33:12Danielle LaRock?

  What's so hard about holding that?

• 33:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Put it in your mouth.

• 33:15Danielle LaRock?

  Anyway, so she was like, oh, my God, I must, something must be done about this. So she, when she was making her next batch, she decided to do something differently because Johnny was having a hard time. So she took her normal piece of dough, but she twisted it and pressed its ends together, allegedly inventing the donut. And that's how the donut came to be. Um, however, I mean, many people.

• 33:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's why they have holes in the middle. They're little rings.

• 33:47Danielle LaRock?

  Because Johnny couldn't hold it. She had to do something about that.

• 33:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  Now you can hold your donuts way easier.

• 33:54Danielle LaRock?

  I feel like it's almost harder.

• 33:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  You can hold it on one finger. You just.

• 33:58Danielle LaRock?

  Perfect.

• 34:02Danielle LaRock?

  There would no be, there wouldn't be such thing as a donut tree.

• 34:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  Or a donut hole.

• 34:08Danielle LaRock?

  Or a munchkin, right. Do we just call munchkins here? Or is that a nationwide thing? I think it's donut hole usually, but munchkin does the trick for me. Right? They're the same thing.

• 34:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  I thought a donut hole was literally the hole in between the donut.

• 34:23Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, we're talking about different things. The munchkin is what is resulted from-

• 34:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Miniature donut.

• 34:30Danielle LaRock?

  No, really? I thought the munchkin was the, what is resulted from take, from creating a donut hole. It's like that. Oh, what am I thinking? They punch out donuts? We-

• 34:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know.

• 34:44Danielle LaRock?

  I don't, I don't know.

• 34:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Munchkins are just rolled up dough that are smaller than normal sized donut. We're overthinking this.

• 34:52Danielle LaRock?

  I know. I know. Okay. I gotta get back on track here. I never thought about how munchkins were made until right now. To me, it just felt like, oh, they just punch out the hole, but I guess not. I mean-

• 35:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  They use that extra dough, but I have a feeling that they just don't use that dough in general. They probably have a, they have-

• 35:12Danielle LaRock?

  No, we're sounding so stupid right now and I hesitate to even-

• 35:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  Speak for yourself. I knew that this was-

• 35:18Danielle LaRock?

  No, but the extra dough, there is no extra dough because they just, as this woman, because of Johnny, she just like put it together. It's, she's not punching out anything. There is no punch out.

• 35:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  I never envisioned a punch out.

• 35:32Danielle LaRock?

  I did.

• 35:37Danielle LaRock?

  Like, that's how munchkins are made.

• 35:43Danielle LaRock?

  Wow, I feel really dumb. It's humbling. This has been a humbling episode. Thank you. Um, for suggesting it to me.

• 35:53Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, well, all that to say, I just really shot myself down a few tears.

• 36:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's okay, you'll get back up.

• 36:03Danielle LaRock?

  Thank you. I gotta say something smart, which is, I also know that this is a legend and you should also know that. And you should also know that because so many other people have claimed to invent the donut. Not this random woman that wanted to impress a Pony Express rider. So there's that.

• 36:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think she did it.

• 36:22Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, don't even know her name.

• 36:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  I believe her.

• 36:24Danielle LaRock?

  It's not even written.

• 36:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  She seems wholesome and trustworthy.

• 36:28Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. The things we've done to impress men throughout time, you know? Invented donuts, invented staple item, food items.

• 36:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. All for a man.

• 36:39Danielle LaRock?

  All for a man. That couldn't hold something.

• 36:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  But yeah, you couldn't hold a piece of food. So we changed the way the food was shaped.

• 36:48Danielle LaRock?

  Right, just for you.

• 36:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  How would you survive without us, truly?

• 36:52Danielle LaRock?

  They, yeah, that's an entirely other conversation, but the short story is, they wouldn't.

• 36:58Danielle LaRock?

  So knowing full well that they were going to be targeting young men to be hired for this position or these types of positions. And young men usually equals trouble and rambunctiousness and getting into things they shouldn't be doing. The, one of the guys, Alexander Majors, he was like, we need to create a moral code for these guys. Like, we need to make them make some promises that they're not going to be crazy out there. So when the Pony Express hired someone, he required that they sign a pledge that prohibited them from drinking alcohol, gambling, fighting, or swearing. Like, those were the rules.

• 37:42Danielle LaRock?

  Majors was a very religious guy and he was very proud of the standards of this gentlemanly conduct that he created for their employees. However, most accounts suggest that the rules were only followed when he was around because you could often find writers along the route in saloons, probably saying fuck a lot. And...

• 38:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 38:05Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, doing bad, bad things. In total, the pony had about eighty riders on staff at any given time. Because in order to make the route reliable, they turned it into a sort of relay race. So one rider clearly wasn't going ten days straight over two thousand miles. It was broken up into smaller sections. Each rider was responsible for a roughly seventy-five mile route. And at both ends, there would be what they call a home station. Riders would receive the mail at one home station, ride seventy-five miles to the next, and hand it off to the next rider. Only then, after about six to nine hours on shift, they would have their day be done. The letters were carried in a mochila, the Spanish term for knapsack.

• 38:49Danielle LaRock?

  And it kind of is a little bit misleading because it's not like a sack of mail that they just threw over their saddle on the back of their horses. It was more of like a leather saddle covering that was made of leather. And it had four different pockets or cantinas that they used to hold the mail and the letters and packages and things like that. And the pockets were, interestingly, all kept locked. Three of the pockets could only be opened at military posts, which were located at Fort Kearney, Laramie, Bridger, Churchill, and in Salt Lake City. And the fourth pocket, which could be opened by a station master at any of the other stations, held a time card to record the riders' arrival and departure times to keep track of their routes and stuff.

• 39:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  It makes sense to lock it up because I bet a lot of these letters had money in them.

• 39:38Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, and we've talked a lot about train robberies, and people are always after the mail. Mail carts are usually the most sought after. So these riders rode their horses at a quick trot, about ten miles an hour or so, to account for the rough terrain. And when they needed to make up time, they would break out into a gallop, more like twenty-five miles an hour. And to prevent the horses from getting too worn out, they would switch them every fifteen miles or so at different relay stations, which weren't anything elaborate. They were basically like shacks with horse stables. In them, just basic shelter stations. And as you could imagine, these regular horse changes were key to the fast delivery time. When it came to big developments like that of the Lincoln election,

• 40:21Danielle LaRock?

  they placed temporary relay stations every five miles along the route, which helped the pony deliver the news in just eight days. So they rode them fast and hard and switched them out more frequently when they wanted to get things faster, done faster. But despite this well-planned route, weather packages arrived on time often came down to the weather. In the deserts west of Salt Lake, the ground became treacherous. When you stayed on the trail, some travelers described the ground as sticking to hooves and shoes like the slop of pancake batter. But if you wandered too far off the trail, you and your horse could wind up in knee-deep mud like quicksand. Temperatures could swing from well below freezing to nearly 100 degrees.

• 41:01Danielle LaRock?

  And since many riders often traveled that night, a moonless night or any sort of storm that obscured the moon, it could cost you hours and hours worth of wandering because you have no sense of direction out there. But of course, the most significant obstacle was the snow. The service ran year-round, traversing both the Rocky Mountains and the Sierra Nevada, where snow could drift upwards of 20 feet deep. For reference, the route through the Sierras in 1860 wasn't that far away from where the Donner Party had been snowed in back in 1847. And if you want to hear that story, you can find it on our subscription platforms. I covered it or recounted the story in July of this year.

• 41:45Danielle LaRock?

  We did, we covered the Donner Party.

• 41:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Pretty recently.

• 41:48Danielle LaRock?

  So take the story of pony rider William Campbell. Campbell wanted to be a pony rider and by all accounts was tough enough to do it. He had been caught in a stampede of hundreds of bison and lived to tell the tale. So he had kind of proved himself that he could survive different obstacles that he may encounter out along the Pony Express route. But he was told he was too big, six foot one and 140 pounds. Soon, though, that didn't matter because by December of 1860, all of the other riders in his area had quit, so he kind of got the job by default. Like, yeah, well, you're the, you're the only one left, so I guess you can do it.

• 42:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Congrats.

• 42:26Danielle LaRock?

  Shortly afterwards, he was riding through a blizzard where the snow drifted to nearly his saddle, fighting to break the snow, inching slowly to the next station in Kearney, only to arrive and find no relief rider, because apparently they had all quit too. But no one knew. And so he rode on, fighting through the wind and snow towards the town of Kearney, another 20 miles away. By the time he arrived, he had been in the saddle for over 24 hours. The return trip to his home station would take another four days. Another rider in the Sierras spent three and a half hours digging by hand to get around a pack of mules that were snowed in place on the trail. Like, the snow was so deep, they literally couldn't move.

• 43:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  These poor animals, too.

• 43:09Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, they're going through a lot. As a result of all of this and much more, the Pony's promise of this 10-day delivery was lengthened to 15 days in winter. It was like a little asterisk moment, like, fine print moment. It's like, 10 days, but 15 if it's snowing inside. But in a testament to the riders, the weather slowed them down, but never stopped them. That brings us to the second obstacle, and that's conflict and violence. Some of what you expect, like outlaws, but also some you may have never heard of. Years before the Pony Express, Russell, Majors, and Waddle found themselves in the middle of what would later become the Mormon Wars. In 1857, Brigham Young was both the leader of the Mormon Church and the governor of the Utah Territory. Many in Washington were

• 43:53Danielle LaRock?

  very concerned about this dual role that he had and the trajectory it was heading towards. And in an effort to exert more control, the region decided to oust Brigham Young as governor. President James Buchanan picked his replacement, and anticipating resistance to this decision, they sent the new governor to Utah with the US Army for, like, backup. Russell, Majors, and Waddle won a contract to deliver supplies to the Army while they were in Utah. And they put together a long train of transport wagons to carry that cargo. But along the way, Mormon guerrilla troops raided the wagons, destroying $300,000 worth of their own equipment and just as much of the supplies that they were carrying for the army.

• 44:37Danielle LaRock?

  By the end of that year, the three had lost the equivalent of $25 million owed to them by the government, but the government never paid. The three entrepreneurs had financed this contract in the first place by taking out loans that were coming due soon. So this put them in a serious hole and a tough position. Russell appealed to the Secretary of War, John Floyd, the man in charge of the army. Floyd said Congress was the problem. They wouldn't allocate any money. It's kind of like he hadn't, he couldn't do anything about it. But somehow Russell managed to convince the secretary to write what were called acceptances. And these acceptances were essentially notes that said the War Department was gonna pay

• 45:20Danielle LaRock?

  the company $400,000 at some point in the future. So it was basically like a fancy IOU, a very expensive.

• 45:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Someday, someday we might pay you.

• 45:31Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, it's coming.

• 45:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Maybe just like, hold on a little bit longer.

• 45:35Danielle LaRock?

  At 400 grand will be coming your way.

• 45:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  When?

• 45:39Danielle LaRock?

  Believe us.

• 45:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's a surprise.

• 45:41Danielle LaRock?

  We're not sure. Long story short, it turned out that the secretary had no authority to issue those acceptances, but Russell did not know that at the time. So he used that to keep the doors open. He's like, oh, I have hundreds of thousands of dollars coming. Like, it's fine. So this very brief version of their backstory shows that the Pony Express was kind of a hail mary project as the three men desperately tried to win more and bigger contracts to climb out of the hole that they had found themselves in financially during the Mormon War. By the time the pony was operating, the route itself went through many places that earned the Wild West's reputation, places with gunfights, outlaws, and ambushes that

• 46:26Danielle LaRock?

  were very, very common. When they were hired, pony riders were offered self-defense in the form of a pistol, whose cost would be taken out of their pay. But in practice, speed was the best defense that they had. Riders were instructed to stay in the saddle and outrun any opponents or potential ambushes. It's like, is your life in danger? Just run really fast. Get out of there.

• 46:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  You got this.

• 46:50Danielle LaRock?

  I hope your horse is good.

• 46:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  You're small, your horse can move.

• 46:56Danielle LaRock?

  Just get on out of there.

• 46:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, what's the big deal?

• 46:59Danielle LaRock?

  While riders could stay on the move, the horses kept at relay stations, though, were very easy targets. Horse theft had become a huge problem on the stretch between Nebraska, Colorado, and Wyoming in particular. And with no law to appeal to in that area, the pony relied on a man named Jack Slade.

• 47:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  What a name, Jack Slade.

• 47:20Danielle LaRock?

  He was everything you would expect from an Old West character, especially named Jack Slade.

• 47:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, Jack Slade is handsome. He can ride any horse. He's a cowboy.

• 47:32Danielle LaRock?

  He's Jack Slade. He's Jack Slade.

• 47:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  He's Jack fucking Slade. He can do anything he wants. He'll steal your girl. He'll save the world.

• 47:40Danielle LaRock?

  He knows how to hold the donut.

• 47:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, he doesn't need a hole.

• 47:44Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I know he doesn't.

• 47:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, he does not.

• 47:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay, tell me who Jack Slade is.

• 47:54Danielle LaRock?

  I'm sorry, I'm flustered. Um, okay, well, being generous, he was an expert marksman with a reputation for frontier just- for frontier justice. I feel like I have to say it like that.

• 48:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  Of course he was, Jack Slade.

• 48:10Danielle LaRock?

  Others, though, called him a murderer and an alcoholic. But in any event, in the pony's eyes, he was an excellent middle manager.

• 48:20Danielle LaRock?

  I tried to keep that accent going as long as I could and it faded real quick. Slade was appointed superintendent of a stretch of the Nebraska-Colorado route, where horses had a habit of going missing and was tasked with solving the problem. While he likely did not approach the investigation with what we would categorize as the utmost care and rigor, he accused a man named Jules Runney, the informal mayor of the area, and took what he believed were the stolen horses back to the company's stables. So the depth of investigation is probably, uh, nonexistent. He, I think he just kind of was like, yeah, this guy did it. I'm taking these horses back to company stables and Like these look like ours.

• 49:05Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, but Jules was like, hey, I didn't fucking do that. Like, those are our horses. So he's pissed and he and some friends ambushed Slade, unloaded a double-barreled shotgun into his chest and left him to die. But he lived. Because he's Jack fucking Slade. Because he's Jack Slade. Jules then fled town to avoid being charged for the murder, but of course. Not Jack Slade. Not our guy. He wasn't dead. Of course not. Takes more than a gunshot wound to the chest to kill this guy. A double-barreled shotgun blast to the chest. Yeah, nothing. Nothing can kill Jack Slade. After a short stint in St. Louis Hospital, Slade tracked Jules down and returned the favor, shooting him out of his saddle and taking one of his ears as a souvenir.

• 49:51Danielle LaRock?

  Oof. Needless to say, when Slade returned to his job as area superintendent on the pony, outlaws thought twice about crossing him. I'm sure. He's holding an ear. I feel like he's wearing it on a necklace. Same, or his horse is wearing it as a necklace.

• 50:10Danielle LaRock?

  It's like on the bridle, like hanging off or like Yeah. on his forelock. It's like a human ear. It's braided into his.

• 50:20Danielle LaRock?

  Because nothing says, don't fuck with me, like a human ear necklace, you know? It's true. So.

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• 51:00Danielle LaRock?

  The last main source of violence along the Pony's route was the simmering conflict between the United States and indigenous groups. Tribes across the West had faced an influx of white settlers, had lost access to their traditional homelands, and had cause to feel mistreated by a frontier filled with men like Jack Slade, who took what they wanted, had itchy trigger fingers, and had their own idea of justice. This relationship played out differently within each tribe, but the Pony was at the center of a conflict with the Paiute people. The Northern Paiute, or Numu, are indigenous people of the Great Basin, including what is now Oregon, Nevada, and eastern California, a region that the Pony Express traveled directly through, starting in 1860.

• 51:43Danielle LaRock?

  That same year, two Paiute girls went missing near Pyramid Lake in Nevada. And while there are many versions of this story, many state that the missing girls had been held captive and raped at a Pony Express station nearby. Outraged, Paiute men killed five men at this Pony Station and burned it to the ground. Settlers reported it as an unprovoked, bloodthirsty attack, and it kicked off a series of violent battles known as the Pyramid Lake War. While much of the violence erupted between Paiute soldiers and militias, it affected everyone in the region. One of those people was a pony rider named Elijah Nicholas Wilson. Wilson had been raised by a Mormon family and moved to Utah from Illinois in 1850.

• 52:27Danielle LaRock?

  At one point, he ran away from home and spent two years living with a band of Shoshone people, and when he returned back to "white society," he started working for the Pony Express. During the summer of 1860, the height of the Pyramid Lake War, Wilson noticed two native men attempting to steal horses from a Pony Station and pursued them with his pistol, only to be struck above the left eye by an arrow. Friends quickly rushed over and tried to remove it, but the arrowhead was firmly lodged in his skull, in his forehead.

• 52:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  I mean, they were trying to remove it. Friends just ran over and started trying to pull this arrow out of his face?

• 53:04Danielle LaRock?

  Yep, pretty much.

• 53:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Let me get to a hospital, Jesus.

• 53:09Danielle LaRock?

  Well, they kind of assumed that he was toast. Like, who is gonna survive an arrow to the forehead?

• 53:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  I thought it was under his eyeball.

• 53:21Danielle LaRock?

  No, it's above his left eye.

• 53:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, I was picturing it for some reason below his eye. And they were just trying to rip it out of his face.

• 53:28Danielle LaRock?

  I mean, it's still his face, so yeah. Well, they're like, he's done for. What are we gonna do with him? So they hid his body in a bush because they were worried that if he was uh, to be discovered, that he would be scalped. So they put him, they kind of hid him away. They assumed he was probably gonna die, but either way, they went to the next station um, to seek safety for themselves. They returned the following day with shovels to give their friend a proper burial, only to find that he had survived. They rushed him to a nearby station and he spent the next two and a half weeks unconscious, but he miraculously did wake up. After his recovery, he even returned to work and ride for the Pony Express.

• 54:12Danielle LaRock?

  Although he did have chronic headaches for the rest of his life because he got

• 54:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Not bad.

• 54:17Danielle LaRock?

  In the face with an arrow.

• 54:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, to go back to that job too, man, they must have been paying well.

• 54:23Danielle LaRock?

  That, and it's like, what, yeah, it's work. You need to survive, you know, and it's like

• 54:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Just going back to your job.

• 54:29Danielle LaRock?

  Yep, just a little workplace accident.

• 54:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 54:33Danielle LaRock?

  This short-lived conflict from May to August of eighteen sixty would lead the Paiute people to be confined to reservation life. It was also the most significant interruption the Pony Express ever suffered to its service. The promised ten-day delivery during this period of time stretched to over a month. And the company spent the equivalent of a million dollars to repair the damaged stations in the region that were um, burnt and uh, ransacked and destroyed. And it was during this war that the Pony suffered its one and only lost mail delivery.

• 55:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow, that's a really good track record.

• 55:12Danielle LaRock?

  Do you know how much mail gets lost every day right now?

• 55:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  My mail.

• 55:17Danielle LaRock?

  You're, don't even get me started.

• 55:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  My mail to the neighbors all the time, every week.

• 55:24Danielle LaRock?

  But the Pony Express, just one.

• 55:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  Would never.

• 55:28Danielle LaRock?

  The Pony Express and Jack Slade would never allow that to happen. While the service did suffer delays, of course, the only mail pouch to not reach its destination was quote unquote stolen by Indians during the Pyramid Lake War. However, somehow it was recovered years later and you can actually see it for yourself in the National Postal Museum in Washington DC. Scrawled across the front of the missing mail piece is written in big looping cursive, recovered from mail stolen by the Indians in 1860.

• 56:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  And they still didn't deliver it?

• 56:05Danielle LaRock?

  Well, it's, it was after the Pony Express had gone defunct and it was.

• 56:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  There must have been addresses still on it. They're like.

• 56:12Danielle LaRock?

  I think it was.

• 56:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, this is ours now. Imagine going to a museum and just seeing your mail sitting there. You're like, I've been waiting for that.

• 56:23Danielle LaRock?

  And to round out the obstacles, let's talk about money, honey. Money rules everything around me. If you're focused on only the headlines, the Pony Express was a runaway success. Newspapers in Salt Lake City credited the Pony with being able to get news from Washington in just six days rather than three months. When they carried the news of Lincoln's election, they required every dispatch to include the line via the Pony Express, cementing their name in the public eye. Like they marketed hard and it worked. But as we said before, the service was more popular in theory than in practice and few paid the relatively expensive postage fees. We also mentioned that Russell, Majors and Waddell were in a ton of debt after the Mormon

• 57:05Danielle LaRock?

  War and had been paying their way with questionable, huh, may or may not be legal IOUs. And on top of that, they lost even more money during the Pyramid Lake War. The Pony Express had been pitched by William Russell as a sort of Hail Mary play, hoping to recoup their debts by securing a massive mail contract. But with their losses mounting up and the nation teetering on the edge of the Civil War, things were looking pretty bleak. As time went on, the loans Russell had taken out using government IOUs as collateral were coming due and he could not pay. He went scrambling back to the Secretary of War, John Floyd, to secure new acceptances in order to take out new loans, paying off old debts with new ones at even worse interest rates.

• 57:48Danielle LaRock?

  It was like a financial house of cards, ready to tumble down. When he went to Congress to petition them to pay back the money he believed he was owed from the Mormon War, it backfired because he and his company were smeared as war profiteers. In July of 1860, President Buchanan caught wind of the shady acceptances scheme, like the weird IOU situation that was happening between him and Secretary Floyd, and he immediately put a stop to it, leaving Russell with around $150,000 of debt coming up due and no new IOUs to pay it off. And if that information became public, it would be a huge scandal for both the Secretary

• 58:28Danielle LaRock?

  of War and for Russell, and it would likely mean the end of their careers if that was, if that news was to get out. So frantically appealing to anyone he could within the government, Russell met a man named Goddard Bailey. Bailey was a clerk for the Department of the Interior and happened to be related to Secretary Floyd, so there are some connections there. And the two conspired to steal $870,000 of bonds from an account managed by the Indian Bureau, which Russell could use to pay off his debts and hopefully avoid scandal, which is like, you're avoiding scandal by stealing $850,000. That makes no sense at all. Like, the math's not mathing. Correct, yeah. Like, that feels like even more of a scandal, but...

• 59:13Danielle LaRock?

  It feels like you're digging yourself deeper, but, okay. Yeah. Well, long story short, it didn't work. And Russell was actually caught and arrested on Christmas Eve of 1860, facing charges of embezzlement and larceny. And I'll spare you all the details, but, long story short, Russell was never charged. He was let off on a technicality, but the damage had been done to his reputation, and the reputation of the Pony Express was permanent. They would not be awarded the mail contract they'd so desperately hoped for and their business was doomed. The next mail contract signed in March of 1861 specified that their remaining operations were to be taken over by Wells Fargo, who would try to balance their budget.

• 59:54Danielle LaRock?

  It also wrote into the terms that the Pony Express would formally end with the completion of the transcontinental telegraph line, which had been inching closer and closer every month that the pony was in business. The Pony Express had grown to more than 100 stations, 80 riders, and between 400 and 500 horses. But by October 24th of 1861, the pony was no more. After 18 short months, the ride was over. Or was it? The pony was never intended to be a permanent business. I mean, of course, it's a temporary solution for something that's being actively worked on with the railroad and telegraph lines. Like, that's a certainty that's going to happen. It was just kind of,

• 1:00:37Danielle LaRock?

  I think it was like, let's make all the money that we can while we can before this isn't necessary anymore. Right. But somehow, even in bankruptcy and its short life, it has achieved a sort of mythical status in our memory of the American West. Celebrated as an icon, not a short-lived scandal-ridden business. Not long after the pony closed its doors, it began to appear in American literature. And while lots of people wrote about it, none were quite so famous as Mark Twain. In an 1872 book about his own trip out west, he wrote about the Pony Express, in part saying, "The pony rider was usually a little bit of a man, brimful of spirit and endurance. Whether it led through peaceful regions or regions that swarmed with hostile Indians,

• 1:01:21Danielle LaRock?

  he must be always ready to leap in the saddle and be off like the wind. He rode 50 miles without stopping by daylight, moonlight, starlight, or through the blackness of darkness," et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But while Twain and the other writers helped keep the memory of the pony alive, someone else helped cement its legacy in American history, and that is Buffalo Bill Cody. William F. Cody was a legendary frontiersman. He knew the West well and served as a scout for the military. He remains the only civilian to earn a Medal of Honor, issued for his courage during a skirmish with a band of Lakota people in Nebraska. He was reportedly an expert hunter and with his reputation, served as a hunting guide to some of the most famous people in America. In time, his fame and celebrity would grow as he became a showman.

• 1:02:06Danielle LaRock?

  Launching a massively successful Wild West traveling show that recreated life on the frontier. Skits and plays that told stories of cowboys and Indians, gun twirling tales of adventure that he or his friends experienced. He invited other personalities like Annie Oakley and Sitting Bull, each sharing performances from their own lives, or maybe stories that Cody heard somewhere, or maybe stories that he just made up entirely. But whatever the case, they were an incredible success. Unbelievably so, turning Cody into a global celebrity. But while his show would feature new stories and performers each touring season, it always opened the same way. The tale of the Pony Express and its riders. Cody was proud to say that he was a rider himself, working for the murderous superintendent

• 1:02:51Danielle LaRock?

  Jack Spuckinslade and notching some downright heroic rides under his belt. In one story, he claimed to outrun 15 indigenous men, and another to have ridden over 300 miles after another rider had been killed in the line of duty. But historians are pretty sure, like 99% sure, that Cody was never a pony rider, ever, at all. He may have worked as like a stable hand at one of the stations, like the relay stations, or maybe he was a messenger for supply trains, like, maybe he worked Pony Express adjacent, but he was never, there was no evidence that he was an actual rider for the Pony Express. Interesting.

• 1:03:32Danielle LaRock?

  And by all accounts, actually, at the time, he may have been too young to be a rider. And they were hiring people like 18 years old, like he was a child during the Pony Express. Gotcha. Nonetheless, it was Cody's traveling show that propelled the Pony Express to the status of the Western icon that it is now. He found and hired former pony riders and brought them onstage to perform. He even tracked down one of the company's founders, the alcohol-hating, curse-hating, like, pledge founder, that was like, hey, I hereby swear. No swearing. No swearing, no drinking, no, uh, you know, no being bad. So that guy was Alexander Majors.

• 1:04:15Danielle LaRock?

  And at the time, when Cody tracked him down, he was now in his seventies and he was involved in this too, in the production of that. With the help of Cody's favorite ghostwriter, Majors published an autobiography with Tales of the Pony Express. Cody, single-handedly helped to promote not only the Pony Express, but the Wild West as a subject of fascination. And Cody hired that same ghostwriter to publish over 200 books in his name. Just a little side note. He loved, um, talking about the West. And I do want to note right now that Buffalo Bill Cody is remembered as a mixed bag. He's considered to be problematic due to his roles as a US Army Scout and Indigenous hunter,

• 1:04:59Danielle LaRock?

  who participated in violence against Native Americans and his Wild West shows often misrepresented and stereotyped Indigenous people. He's pretty controversial nowadays. I mean, he did do a lot of good, but he also was pretty shitty. You know, like it's a story. It's something we say all the time of describing people, historical figures and things like that. So I, I don't want to go into it any further about him, uh, in that regard, but I just want everyone to know, I am very well aware. Yes. So yes, he is controversial, but this is, as I mentioned at the very top of the episode, there's a side quest. This is a side quest. We're going to go on real quick because I couldn't let

• 1:05:39Danielle LaRock?

  this opportunity pass because there's a story here about Buffalo Bill Cody and it's kind of like a scandal and it's one that I, I don't feel passionately about, but I'm very interested in because I lived really, really close to where this took place and I know a ton of our listeners live nearby, the center of the story. So I wanted to share a condensed version of it. Cool. If you'll allow me. Yes, please.

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• 1:06:37Danielle LaRock?

  Buffalo Bill Cody is buried on top of Lookout Mountain in downtown Golden, Colorado. Allegedly.

• 1:06:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh.

• 1:06:46Danielle LaRock?

  Allegedly.

• 1:06:47Cassandra Yahnian?

  Interesting.

• 1:06:48Danielle LaRock?

  He died in January of 1917 at 70 years old from kidney failure, and his casket was paraded through the streets of Denver to the Colorado State Capitol Building, where more than 25,000 people paid their respects to him. After the funeral at the Denver Elks Lodge, his body was taken to Olinger's Mortuary in Denver, which is now a restaurant called Linger. And here's another story within a story, but it's really cool. So, were you here? Did you ever go to Linger with me? It would have been a really long time ago.

• 1:07:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't think so.

• 1:07:22Danielle LaRock?

  So, it's really hard to miss if you live in Denver, but it's really cool. And I'm going to pull just the description from our friends over at Atlas Obscura because they do a good job talking about it. So, this restaurant, Linger, was, the building was purchased by its new owners. They immediately embraced the space's morbid history. The rooftop neon sign that used to say "Olinger Mortuaries" was barely altered, and the capital "O" is turned off, so now it just says "Linger." And "Mortuaries" was slightly altered, so it says "Eteres." And the morgue's old AC units have been turned into hanging lamps. Glass-topped metal conveyor belts are now used as tables.

• 1:08:06Danielle LaRock?

  Water is served from formaldehyde bottles, and a church pew is used as the host stand. The ground floor boasts large garage doors that once welcomed corpse-laden hearsees, and now they just open to offer some breeze during the summer. And below the restaurant in the basement is now a mixed-use retail space that includes an athletic club. Somewhat ironically, because that's where the embalming space once was and where bodies were preserved, including Buffalo Bill Cody's body. Interesting. I had a really good burger there before. Um, I love that spot. It's so fun. Anyway, so back to Cody. While his body was at this space that you can now go have a cheeseburger

• 1:08:48Danielle LaRock?

  at when his corpse was hanging out there, his wife Louisa was inundated with monetary offers from representatives in Denver to bury her husband in Colorado in hopes that the spot would become a major tourist attraction. Like, he is one of the most famous people in the world at this point in time. Everybody knows him. They're like, this is a, we want him here because we want the money that will be generated from people coming to see his, his grave. Right. So despite all the fame that he had achieved and all the money that he made during his lifetime, despite all of that, by the time he actually did pass away, him and his wife were pretty broke. So wanting the money, she accepted the offer. And that really upset a lot of people because when she arrived back home to, you know, the whole ass town

• 1:09:34Danielle LaRock?

  of Cody, Wyoming, named after him, uh, they were like, okay, where is he? Like, what the hell? They wanted him. They wanted him. Allegedly, uh, some of his friends that were particularly upset devised a plan to right the wrong they believed Louisa made. The friends devised a plan to travel to Denver to switch bodies and bury Cody on Cedar Mountain in Wyoming. When a local ranch hand had died and his body went unclaimed, the three made their move. According to the story, after the friends reached Denver, they presented themselves to Olinger Mortuary as Buffalo Bill's friends that just wanted to see him, say goodbye, pay their final respects. After viewing the body, they thanked the mortician and made him believe that

• 1:10:19Danielle LaRock?

  They were gonna just head on back to Wyoming now. Thank you so much. But in reality, they were casing the place and later that night, they broke in and switched the body of Buffalo Bill with the look alike, who they even tried to make look even more similar to him by like shaving his facial hair in the classic um Bill Cody. Like it's a, I don't know what it's called. It's not a goatee, but he had a very distinct facial cut haircut. Um, and they're like, let's just try and make him look identical to him. And as with anyone does anything risky and illegal, especially, you know, like a full ass body heist, you could imagine they got a little nervous that they were gonna get caught and they started to worry. They were scared that

• 1:11:03Danielle LaRock?

  someone would notice the body swap. So the friends decided to create a diversion. They made the rounds to all of 13 saloons in Cody, Wyoming and riled up the people of the town and urged them to drive to Denver, grab the body of Buffalo Bill and return him to Cody for a proper burial. So they're like, hey, isn't it messed up that Denver is keeping?

• 1:11:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  They egged everyone on?

• 1:11:28Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, they're like, don't allow that. He's ours. Like,

• 1:11:31Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  How are they gonna stop us if all of us go?

• 1:11:34Danielle LaRock?

  Right. So they get all, they round up all these people, more than 350 well armed, probably very intoxicated men to go down there. And Denver police learned of this caravan as it was on its way, alerted the mortuary and rushed towards Wyoming to intercept the group before they could arrive. Determined to prevent the body from being snatched, Cody was brought to Lookout Mountain. He was buried and his grave was sealed with 20 tons of concrete. The caravan was met by law enforcement officials who convinced the disheartened townspeople to return home since retrieving the body was now impossible. They complied without incident, deeply saddened, believing that Cody would never get his wish.

• 1:12:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  But this was the decoy.

• 1:12:19Danielle LaRock?

  Yes.

• 1:12:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  That was buried.

• 1:12:21Danielle LaRock?

  So meanwhile, Buffalo Bill's friends quietly told others about the showman's true resting place, although they closely guarded the exact location, except to say that it had an expansive view of the town, just as he would have wanted. Allegedly, the final resting place of William Buffalo Bill Cody is a closely guarded secret with only a few people knowing its exact location to this day. Now, that entire story. Is a persistent tale and legend and kind of passed around through generation to generation. And that's kind of like something people like to talk about, like it really happened.

• 1:12:59Danielle LaRock?

  And even places like the Cody Wyoming website does talk about it at length, but do say explicitly, it is a legend. However, there is another side to the story, which is very likely, probably, most definitely, certainly true. If you don't want to entertain any sort of idea about a fun legend and tale to swap around a campfire. And this is like the true version, which I'll keep really short. But according to the Buffalo Bill Museum and Denver's Park System, despite the claims of citizens of Cody, Wyoming, close friends, as well as the priest who administered last rites affirmed that Lookout Mountain was indeed his choice. That is where he wanted to bury,

• 1:13:43Danielle LaRock?

  be buried. There was no dispute. He didn't wish to be buried in Cody, Wyoming. He was like, Lookout Mountain is it for me? There is an entire thing about that he had two wills, them being contested back and forth, et cetera, et cetera. Louisa didn't make this decision out of being not bribed, but offered a ton of money. Like it was his, her husband's wishes. So basically, long story short, after the ground thawed out and conditions permitted for burial, because remember he died in January, but it's Denver winter, so they had to wait. So he was at the mortuary for a long time. He was embalmed twice to keep preserved because they wanted to have an open casket for him during his burial in June.

• 1:14:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Ew.

• 1:14:28Danielle LaRock?

  So there's also that, like the whole scandal of like, they switched his body. It's like, okay, if he actually-

• 1:14:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  He was just embalmed twice and was sitting in a morgue for six months.

• 1:14:39Danielle LaRock?

  But they did say that the guy, the embalmer was like, kind of, uh, the, he was on his game. Like he was really, really good at what he did. And he kept him very well preserved. So much so that like, when I tell you this funeral was attended by thousands of people, over 25,000 people went to this open casket burial, six months after this guy died, just to see him and pay their final respects. And to this day, it remains the largest funeral in Colorado's history.

• 1:15:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow.

• 1:15:15Danielle LaRock?

  Yep. And if you're familiar with this place, this mountain is big. It's not an easy trek. So it makes those numbers even more astounding. I mean, lookout mountain is over 7,000 feet in elevation. It's crazy. But anyways, and it's it's it sits in this really cool spot. The mountain overlooks, it has this cool panoramic view of like to one side, you have the plains. And then on the other, you have the start of the mountains. It's just like, I can see why he wanted to be there. But today, his grave and the Buffalo Bill museum, which was later constructed there, um, is part of Denver's mountain park system, and it's a huge tourist attraction. I've been there several times. I take, I've taken my mom there. My mom has a picture next to his grave.

• 1:15:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, fun.

• 1:16:00Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And despite all the back and forth, um, legends and question marks, the plaque on his grave, and also Luisa's, who was interred later, uh, alongside him, says, um, so it has their names and their birth and death dates. And then it says in big bold letters at the bottom, at rest here by his request.

• 1:16:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, because of the legend.

• 1:16:20Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:22Danielle LaRock?

  All right. So finishing up with the Pony Express, back to the original point here. The start of that side quest was saying how Buffalo Bill Cody really propelled the Pony Express into fame. As its popularity grew, more and more people came out of the woodwork to tell their own stories about it. Perhaps none more famous than Julius Miller, better known as Bronco Charlie. I want a cool nickname. Everyone has cool nicknames. Jack fucking Slade, Bronco Charlie.

• 1:16:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bronco Charlie, what would your nickname be?

• 1:16:52Danielle LaRock?

  I can't give myself my own nickname.

• 1:16:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's true.

• 1:16:55Danielle LaRock?

  So, think about it and get back to me.

• 1:16:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, we'll, we'll ask you guys, listeners, what do you want Danielle's nickname to be?

• 1:17:05Danielle LaRock?

  Be nice.

• 1:17:09Danielle LaRock?

  Be nice. In Charlie's story, which propelled him into nationwide fame, he was living in Sacramento at the age of 11 when he noticed a horse walking down the street. The horse was wearing an empty, bloodstained saddle, its rider apparently killed in a skirmish with an indigenous group. Charlie took his place, hopped into the saddle, and became a pony rider from there on out. He took the pledge to not drink and not swear, and he got a pistol in return. He met Abe Lincoln, Davy Crockett, and Jesse James. He was there when the Transcontinental Railroad was finished, and maybe you see where this is going, but he was making all of that up. Bronco Charlie was never a Pony Express rider, but people really, really wanted him to be.

• 1:17:53Danielle LaRock?

  The Pony Express had become such a beloved idea of a bygone era that people were eager to learn more about it and the Old West. Historians today quickly find holes in or raise doubts about the tales of the Pony Express, even from reputable sources compared to ones like Bronco Charlie's. Riders who recorded their memories years later would seem to get dates wrong, mix up names of relay stations or coworkers, you know, that sort of thing. Possibly, it was just the effects of age or eager ghostwriters trying to fit stories into clean narratives. But since the company's records have all been lost, it's hard to verify either way. And it's also worth noting that the Pony Express was not the only private express service of its day. People that rode for one service

• 1:18:37Danielle LaRock?

  may have been eager to share their stories only to have them miscategorized as a Pony Express tale. So it's kind of all murky, as time goes on especially. In the end, the Pony Express was always more successful as an idea than it was as a business, losing money each month it operated, but looming large in our memories of the Old West, a route and riders that briefly helped to connect a divided nation. Brave men who rode hundreds of miles across the desert, dug by hand through 20-foot snowdrifts, and took arrows to the face just to deliver the mail. Each letter affixed with a stamp that cost three days of wages just to say hi to a loved one far away, to share that a baby had been born, that a loved one had fallen ill,

• 1:19:22Danielle LaRock?

  or that Abraham Lincoln had become president. The Pony Express has come to embody American values of adventure, heroism, and bravery in the face of the unknown. But its story is wrapped around something that today is so simple that we so often take it for granted. The power of connecting with one another. We reflect in awe at the lengths people went to say hi and to share news. And it can remind us of how valuable a call, a text, or a letter can be. It can remind us of how important it is to connect with one another. And last, but certainly not least, the Pony Express is a National Historic Trail, of course. There it is. There it is. Not a freebie.

• 1:20:04Danielle LaRock?

  The trail loosely follows, the National Historic Trail loosely follows the historic route across eight states. So California, Colorado, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, Utah, and Wyoming. It was designated by Congress in 1992. And today, 1,800 miles of the original route, which is pretty darned close to its entirety, are now in the hands of various private and public entities. So access to trail segments depends on the permission of whatever entity owns it, um, whether it be public or private hands. Gotcha. Some segments are open to the public for hiking and other means of recreation while others are not. And this means it's not a continuous traditional trail from end to end,

• 1:20:47Danielle LaRock?

  but consists of many trail traces, structures, graves, landmarks, and markers left on the landscape. The Park Service webpage on the National Historic Trail details various route options and points of interest along the way if you want to make a road trip out of it or go see parts of it. But, but, if you have some free time and a horse, this is for you. All you horse people. Each June, members of the National Pony Express Association recreate the Pony Express in a commemorative re-ride over a 10-day period. Oh, wow. That's super cool. This is so fun. I'm so glad this exists. Okay. Letters are carried in a mochila over the original trail.

• 1:21:32Danielle LaRock?

  Riding over 1,800 miles in eight states, the event is conducted 24 hours a day until the mail is delivered to its destination. This national event is an opportunity for everybody, young and old, to ride the pony trail and receive mail via the Pony Express. Over 750 riders participate and around 1,000 letters are mailed every year. Fun fact, while there are no records of women ever participating as riders in the OG Pony Express, over 60% of participants in re-rides are women. Riders come from all walks of life, but all are members of the National Pony Express Association, and they even take a version of the original oath. Isn't that so fun? No swearing. Don't swear. That is very fun.

• 1:22:17Danielle LaRock?

  They also have to wear western attire during their ride and legit recreate the Pony Express Relay. Like, this is a very true to, uh, to the best of their ability in, you know, 20... Yeah. In the 21st century. Each rider has a GPS on them and it links to a live, interactive map, so people can watch as the ride progresses. And if you want to be a part of the ride next year, I'll link the info in the description because it does look really, really fun. They make it really easy to participate and it just looks like a super cool event for like-minded people who love horses and the mail and history to get together. Like, what more could one want? Jackpot. Yeah.

• 1:23:01Danielle LaRock?

  There's a documentary free to watch on YouTube called "The Spirit of the Pony Express" that follows the horses and riders on these re-rides and also does like a fun history of the Pony Express. And I think it was produced in 2012 or 2011 or so, so it's relatively recent. It's a fun watch. And, super last, but not least, for anyone who's passionate about the mail, you don't need to participate as a rider in order to participate in the event because you can apply to have one of them carry a letter for you. And send somebody a piece of mail via this re-ride.

• 1:23:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's really cool.

• 1:23:38Danielle LaRock?

  There's info on the site and basically there's like an application, actually the application for 2026 is up right now. And there's a letter application form and it just says, your letter will be carried on horseback by over 700 riders along the original 1,966 mile Pony Express Trail in just 10 days. The 2026 re-ride is June 15th to June 25th from St. Joseph, Missouri to Old Sacramento, California, east to west. Nebraska will be the state highlighted in the 2026 year's commemorative letter. The commemorative letter highlights different historical events, sites and people of the Pony Express. Each envelope is hand stamped with a special US Post Office cancellation.

• 1:24:21Danielle LaRock?

  At $5, the same price as in 1860, they are the official souvenir of the annual Pony Express re-ride. And personal letters are also available for $10. The deadline for this application is May 15th of 2026 and personal letter application is, uh, deadline is May 1st, 2026. And you don't need to be living in like the end state of California to have your letter. Like just because they're ending and delivering mail to California, you don't have to live there or in any of the states along the route. On the application, it'll ask you where the letter is going, but the whole point is that the Pony Express riders will be carrying it along the original route before it's sent.

• 1:25:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  And you'll get the stamp and everything.

• 1:25:07Danielle LaRock?

  Yes. Yeah. Isn't that so fun?

• 1:25:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  That is really fun. Did you fill it out?

• 1:25:12Danielle LaRock?

  No, not yet. I just finished writing this, so I, I have to do that. But yeah, that's the story of the Pony Express. I know it was kind of a longer one, but I just thought it was so interesting to learn more about just this tiny chapter that in retrospect was just a blip on the radar of history, but has just really grown larger than life and legend and, um, yeah.

• 1:25:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  I can see why people have held on to this part of history for a long time.

• 1:25:40Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. Yeah. People died, got stuck, went through hell just to deliver the mail. And it's, it's tough because it's like, I think it is something that we take. For granted now of not just overnight shipping or whatever, but just being in constant contact or the stress. It's like, oh, I sent this text and they haven't responded. It's been an hour.

• 1:26:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, people used to have to wait 10 days and people had to risk their lives to get that text message across.

• 1:26:10Danielle LaRock?

  That's right. That's right. That's how text messages were sent originally. So be thankful.

• 1:26:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Actually, it was T nine.

• 1:26:20Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, my God. T nine on my Virgin Mobile flip phone, my first phone I ever had.

• 1:26:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, those are the good old days.

• 1:26:29Danielle LaRock?

  The Sidekick, flip it right open.

• 1:26:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Uh, technology at its finest, truly.

• 1:26:35Danielle LaRock?

  Yep. That Blackboard keyboard, that BlackBerry keyboard with all the letters.

• 1:26:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  I never had a BlackBerry, but I was so jealous of everyone who did.

• 1:26:43Danielle LaRock?

  I didn't, but I definitely like, it's been cemented in my, uh, lore. Like, I feel like, I think of Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie, because on The Simple Life, I think they had them.

• 1:26:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  They had them.

• 1:26:56Danielle LaRock?

  That's the epitome of cool.

• 1:27:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, thank you for telling this story today, and I'm glad that I could help inspire this to come to the podcast.

• 1:27:06Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was fun.

• 1:27:07Danielle LaRock?

  It was great. Well, thanks, everyone for listening. This is our last episode of 2025.

• 1:27:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  I know. That's so crazy.

• 1:27:15Danielle LaRock?

  So.

• 1:27:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  What a year. What a year.

• 1:27:17Danielle LaRock?

  I know. Yeah. Thank you, everyone, for being with us for a, uh, another year and we will, we'll see you next year.

• 1:27:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  See you next week.

• 1:27:29Danielle LaRock?

  I did it just for you.

• 1:27:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  You said it. Wow. I appreciated that a lot.

• 1:27:34Danielle LaRock?

  Well, you do something for me, I do something for you, you know?

• 1:27:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. Okay. See you next year, everybody.

• 1:27:39Danielle LaRock?

  In the meantime, enjoy the view.

• 1:27:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  But watch your back.

• 1:27:42Danielle LaRock?

  Bye.

• 1:27:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bye.

• 1:27:44Danielle LaRock?

  Thank you for joining us again this week. If you love National Park After Dark and want to hear exclusive bonus stories, join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Patreon subscribers have access to our National Park After Dark Book Club, live streams, Discord, and much more. If you prefer to watch our episodes, video episodes are now available on YouTube. If you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite listening platform. And to follow along with all our adventures, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and X at National Park After Dark.

• 1:28:28Speaker 05

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• 1:28:58Speaker 06

  This fall, discover why there are two sides to every pancake story at Cracker Barrel. The edgy side, created by the golden crispy edges. And the softer side, made up of those warm fluffy centers. So slow down. Make time to bring in the family, day or night, and try the new Sweet Cream Caramel Apple Pancakes. Three of the world's best buttermilk pancakes topped with fried cinnamon apples, caramel drizzle, and sweet vanilla cream. Then dig in and write your own breakfast story. Welcome home to Cracker Barrel.