Fatimid Dynasty: Descendants of Prophet Muhammad

How did the Fatimids build one of Islam's most powerful medieval empires? What can the rise of this dynasty reveal about power, culture, tolerance, and women’s authority? Stretching across North Africa, Egypt, and parts of Sicily, Syria, Palestine and Arabia, the Fatimids created an empire renowned for prosperity, cultural brilliance and relative tolerance, one in which women were promoted to positions rarely seen elsewhere. Matt Lewis and Dr. Delia Cortese explore the Fatimid's remarkable origin story. MORE How Islam came to Iran Listen on Apple https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/how-islam-came-to-iran/id1564113746?i=1000753637002&uo=4&itscg=30200&ls=1&mttnsubad=6442463604&at=1000l3ctA&itsct=podfollow_podcasts&ct=gone-medieval-eplink Listen on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/episode/3meiUBz59mE0C51LgU4vZv Prophet Muhammad Listen on Apple https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/prophet-muhammad/id1564113746?i=1000732984774&uo=4&itscg=30200&ls=1&mttnsubad=6442463604&at=1000l3ctA&itsct=podfollow_podcasts&ct=gone-medieval-eplink Listen on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/episode/1XD7MLfJdJeeqNQwXVlZ8t Gone Medieval is presented by Matt Lewis. Edited and produced by Rob Weinberg. The senior producer is Anne-Marie Luff. All music used is courtesy of Epidemic Sounds. Gone Medieval is a History Hit podcast. Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Matt Lewis?

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• 0:40Matt Lewis?

  Hello, I'm Matt Lewis. Welcome to Gone Medieval from History Hit, the podcast that delves into the greatest millennium in human history. We've got the most intriguing mysteries, the gobsmacking details, and latest groundbreaking research, from the Vikings to the printing press, from kings to popes to the crusades. We cross centuries and continents to delve into rebellions, plots, and murders, to find the stories, big and small, that tell us how we got here. Find out who we really were with Gone Medieval.

• 1:19Matt Lewis?

  From the deserts of North Africa to the glittering heat of Cairo, from whispered prophecies to imperial triumph, from sacred lineage to political fracture. The story of the Fatimids is one of the most fascinating and contested in medieval history. They emerged in an age of upheaval, when the Islamic world was already vast, powerful, and deeply divided. While the Abbasids ruled from Baghdad, claiming the mantle of universal leadership, old certainties were beginning to crack. A revolutionary movement began to take shape, one built not only on political ambition, but on faith, secrecy, and the electrifying promise of legitimacy. The Fatimids didn't simply seek power.

• 2:03Matt Lewis?

  They claimed destiny. They said they were descended from Fatima, the daughter of the prophet Muhammad, and from Ali, his cousin and son-in-law.

• 2:15Matt Lewis?

  In that claim, lay the seed of both their strength and the storm that would follow them. To their followers, they were the rightful imams, divinely guided leaders, heirs not merely to a throne, but to sacred authority itself. To their enemies, they were dangerous usurpers, rebels, cloaked in theology. But whether they were seen as visionaries or imposters, one thing was undeniable: the Fatimids would change the medieval world. Their rise began far from the old centres of Islamic power in the harsh frontier lands of what's now Tunisia and parts of North Africa. But expanding

• 2:54Matt Lewis?

  west and east, they built a state of remarkable ambition and sophistication. Their emergence is the story of hiding, biding time, careful missionary work that was disguised in the complex and bustling world of merchants. They were never safe, but always ready for their moment to arrive. The Fatimid Empire was built on tensions that never fully disappeared, and the very ideological fire that had fuelled their rise couldn't always hold together the vast and complicated empire they'd built. In just over two centuries, it was all over.

• 3:34Matt Lewis?

  To find out more about this remarkable and often underrated dynastic empire's rise, I'm joined by Dr. Dalja Kretese, senior research fellow at Middlesex University and author of the recently published The Fatimids: Portrait of a Dynasty.

• 3:51Matt Lewis?

  Welcome to Gone Medieval, Dalja. It's fantastic to have you with us.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Thank you very much for inviting me.

• 3:56Matt Lewis?

  So we're going to be talking today about the Fatimid Empire. So just to give us a really quick overview, can you tell us about when in time they're ruling and where in the world we're going to be looking at?

• 4:08Speaker 01

  Okay, the Fatimid dynasty came to power from the year 909 till 1171. So we have an empire that from 909 will encompass an area that goes from North Africa, Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Arabian Peninsula, and for a brief moment, as far as Baghdad.

• 4:31Matt Lewis?

  And what do we know about the origins of the Fatimids? Because I understand it, they traced their lineage back to the Prophet Muhammad as one of the branches of Islam, is that correct?

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Yes, the name Fatimid is derived from Fatima. Fatima was the daughter of the Prophet Muhammad and his first wife Kadija. Her date of birth is not absolutely clear, but let's say she was born at the very beginning of the 7th century. So, to understand how this connection between the name of a dynasty and the name of this daughter of the Prophet, how did it come about? I think I need to give you a bit of background of the tensions that prevailed soon after the death of the Prophet Muhammad in relation to who should be considered worthy of ruling

• 5:25Speaker 01

  spiritually and politically, the Muslim community. So, one side who became known as the Sunnis maintained that the leader of the community should be by choice, by election, by council, a council should elect this ruler. This vision was contrasted by a party, a party, a Shia in Arabic, a party that sustained that the rightful successor to the Prophet Muhammad in terms of guiding spiritually and politically the Muslim community should be someone from his family. So, there should be a genealogical descent from the Prophet. And the person that was considered to be the best person qualified in that respect was

• 6:10Speaker 01

  Ali, his cousin. This was not just any cousin, this was the first cousin born of Abu Talib, the fundamental figure in the life of the Prophet Muhammad, in that Abu Talib took care of the Prophet when he remained orphaned at a very early age. And therefore, these were close cousins. So, this Shia of Ali, this party of Ali, supported the idea that he should be the one to succeed him. In time, the other group prevailed. They became known as the Sunni. To this day, they are the majority group within Islam. But the Shia persisted in this campaign to have the prophets' genealogical lineage

• 6:53Speaker 01

  being placed in a position of leadership of the community. They called these leaders imams. Imams not as prior leaders, but as divinely appointed leaders of the community deemed to be infallible on genealogical ground due to the closeness of the Prophet Muhammad. Now, within this Shia group, of course, in time, there were divisions and claims and counterclaims who should be even genealogically the most close to the Prophet Muhammad. And it was the one group decided that the best genealogy was the one that derived from Ali, but also from Fatima, because this Ali married the daughter of the Prophet.

• 7:38Matt Lewis?

  Oh, so is this like the perfect genealogical couple?

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Yes, Ali and Fatima had their progeny and the Shia branch of Islam supported the imams, the leaders should be from that line.

• 7:51Matt Lewis?

  Right, so I suppose inevitably there's going to be some more division going on despite all of this.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Yes, because the progeny of this couple, at some point, there was a division in following which descendants should be followed and considered to be these leaders. There is a crucial point when one of these imams, Jafar al-Sadiq, he has a number of sons and one group follows the descent and the lineage of Ismail, whereas others follow another son of this Imam Jafar and they become imami Shis, let's say.

• 8:28Matt Lewis?

  So the Muslims who follow Ismail become the Ismailis?

• 8:32Speaker 01

  Yes, and this is really the point where we take the lineage that eventually will lead to the identification of some individuals with the lineage in that line and then the foundation of the Fatimid dynasty.

• 8:47Matt Lewis?

  And as I understand it as well, the early imams are often referred to as hidden imams. Does that mean that they were literally having to keep their identities secret? Was it a dangerous position to hold?

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Yes, as you can imagine, we are now at a stage where we have a dominant group, the Sunnis. Meanwhile, the Sunnis recognized as their leaders. And this was almost generally accepted among the Sunni community, which the first leaders were by election. And then we have dynasties, we have the Umayyads in Syria, in Damascus, and then the Abbasid caliphate. So these caliphs become widely recognized as the formal leaders of the Muslim community worldwide. But this Shia branch of Islam, though a minority, was persistent and gathering momentum in certain areas.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  And they attracted persecution on the part of the Abbasids, who saw their power possibly threatened or eroded in particular parts of the world.

• 9:52Matt Lewis?

  And alongside all of that, we've got that parallel strand descending from Ishmael. So what direction are the Ishmaelis taking?

• 10:00Speaker 01

  So we are around the year 765 and Ismail dies and his successor is his son Mohammed. And this is a moment of rupture because this son Mohammed, to some, he died as well. But to others, he didn't die, but went into concealment, went into occultation. So this is a very interesting doctrinal innovation that is introduced here. The idea that these imams don't die, but go into hiding for protection, for safety, for concealing their identity.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  Not only they don't die, but they hide, but they will return at an appointed time. So there is a kind of messianic element that really becomes fundamental in the doctrines of all the Shia groups. The idea of the Imam in hiding and waiting for his return becomes a very core belief within all the Shia groups. And in the specific case, the Ismailis as well.

• 11:12Matt Lewis?

  So we've got an Imam in hiding. So what happens? How is it possible for them to keep his presence kind of alive and active? And how does that lead us on to a Fatimid dynasty?

• 11:26Speaker 01

  So the Imam is in hiding, but there is an organisation, there is a network of propagandists that keep his guidance effective. This propaganda network is called the Dawah. They act in the name of the hidden Imam. And they act secretly because let's not forget that the Abbasids are watching what happens in their territories and therefore they are not comfortable at all that there is such a subversive propaganda that ultimately is aimed at the appointed time install the Imams as the true leader of the Muslim community and therefore uproot them.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  These propagandists as a subterfuge, they pass themselves as traders, as merchants, and they operate in markets and caravan routes. And markets are very important because in that way, in that context, they can talk to people, gather information, but also test the ground as to whether they are confident and comfortable to start spreading their message about the Imam they are campaigning for. Their secret teachings from early on, the Smiley teachings are very much imbued with esoteric knowledge which needs to be shared gradually with very trusted initiates

• 12:55Speaker 01

  that are introduced into the doctrine on a very careful and staggered way. We have this organisation, this network, that on the surface, these are traders of textiles. Textiles from early on have a very important role to play for the Fatimids, even before the actual foundation of the dynasty.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  And then by the ninth century, we have a figure that, to all intents and purposes, is one of these traders. In fact, he's a missionary. He's one of these covert propagandists for the cause of the hidden Imam.

• 13:39Matt Lewis?

  And the hidden Imam at this point is still Mohammed, the son of Ishmael, as far as the Israelis are concerned.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:47Matt Lewis?

  But now there's a trader that's coming forward.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  And his name is known as Abdullah the Elder. And he was born in Iran, but then his cover was blown. So he escaped to Iraq in Baghdad. And then his cover was blown again. And then he eventually turned up in Syria, in a small town, in a city, it's now a city, but then a small town of Salamia, a trading post. There he bought properties, he established his trading activities. And with his front was able to operate as a propagandist for the cause of the hidden Imam.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  His son continued in that way. His grandson continued in that way. A group of people were, of course, around him and following him and knew his true identity, or what they thought was his true identity. So in this way, Syria, that region, becomes very much a base of propaganda activity with major consequences. And then something happens. In the year 899, a figure appears on the scene called Abdullah. And he makes a very bold, grand, astonishing revelation.

• 15:17Matt Lewis?

  Okay, so is Abdullah then claiming to be the hidden Imam?

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Yes, he says that he is the Imam. Not only that, he reveals that Abdullah the Elder, who everybody thought was, first of all, a merchant, his close allies and supporters thought that he was a missionary. Actually, he was a son of that Muhammad, son of Ismail. So he was an Imam hiding in plain sight. Not only that, his son was also an Imam and so his grandson. So therefore, this Abdullah in eight hundred and ninety-nine says, "I am the Imam, descendant from this line of Imams

• 16:04Speaker 01

  that were supposedly in hiding, but in fact they were not. And not only that, through this lineage, I can claim to be direct descendant all the way back to Ali and Fatima. So I'm direct genealogical descendant of Muhammad, through Ali and Fatima, all the way to Ismail and his son Muhammad. And the lineage has continued via Abdullah the Elder and then his descendants up to him. This Abdullah even says, "You have always known me with another name, means name by which he was known was Said. But in fact, my real name is Abdullah and I'm the Imam."

• 16:47Matt Lewis?

  And that revelation, it must have come as a shock for those who thought Abdullah was just one of these propagandists who was going about spreading the word. So how did the Abbasids who were ruling in Baghdad at the time react to his claim?

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Yes, the Abbasids found out about this revelation somehow and therefore started persecuting him. Others were enthusiastic about this revelation and even demonstrated their enthusiasm very publicly. So much so that it is at this point that in the sources describing these events, we find for the first time, this group of people who were so enthusiastic about...

• 17:35Speaker 01

  Abdullah making himself known as to be from the line of Fatima and Ali, that these detractors started to call the people who supported him Fatimi Yun. It is the first time that we find this Fatimid expression found in sources. They call it Fatimi Yun, which means those who follow the people who believe to be descendant of Fatima.

• 18:01Matt Lewis?

  It's fascinating that they managed to live for so long hidden. But I guess that begs the question, how do we move from a position where they are a minority, forced to live in hiding, to the point where they begin an empire? How do they rise to power from the position that they're in?

• 18:18Speaker 01

  Yes, this is really phenomenal sort of progression. And first of all, they were acting in hiding and moving in hiding and secretly. But let's not forget that these trading activities that they conducted brought them money. So they were real merchants in that sense. And therefore, we hear about them buying houses and establishments, et cetera, and being wealthy. So there is money circulating there. This is a time also where there were various dissents across various regions for various political motivations. So the propaganda tapped people who were maybe dissatisfied with the regional

• 19:03Speaker 01

  or overall government of ruling of the Muslim community. There was the messianic appeal of awaiting for a leader who one day will bring justice and peace. Interestingly, they operate in markets and there are many references to how women were instrumental in facilitating the spreading of the Ismaili propaganda because the frequenters of markets were women, especially with textiles. And therefore, they really worked as maybe unwittingly as filters of the religious political propaganda that these Ismaili activists were negotiating.

• 19:43Matt Lewis?

  How do we move on from this in a formal way to create the foundations of an empire?

• 19:50Speaker 01

  Así que tenemos ahora a Abdallah, que se ha anunciado ser imam en Siria, en Salamilla. Sus enemigos lo han seguido, está cubierto, está roto. Tiene que escapar, tiene que huir, tiene que dejar Siria. Así que eso es lo que hace con un pequeño grupo de seguidores muy confiados y miembros de su familia. Deja a algunos otros para mirar sus asuntos en Siria, pero muy en secreto. ¿Dónde va a ir a seguir? Es algo poco claro al principio. La primera idea es para que este grupo vaya a Yemen.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  La propaganda islamica había estado efectiva en Yemen durante algún tiempo. De nuevo, bajo el nombre o guiado por Abdallah al Hélder, que era un propagandista, pero en realidad era el imam, como descubrimos por lo que Abdallah revela. Así que tenemos esta propaganda en Yemen, que había estado efectivamente trabajando y había reclutado bastante seguidores mientras todavía se llevaba a cabo en secreto. Pero luego hay indicios de otras personas que quieren afirmarse ser imames mismos. Así que cambia de opinión y, por lo tanto, se dirige hacia el oeste. Primero escapando hacia Egipto, luego Libia,

• 21:18Speaker 01

  siempre atrapado y de alguna manera escondido, hasta que eventualmente llega a lo que es hoy Marruecos y se establece en Sigil Masa. Sigil Masa es un lugar ideal porque es uno de los centros comerciales más importantes para el comercio transahariano. Así que si quieres pasar a ser un comerciante rico, Sigil Masa es un buen lugar para ir y pretender ser o actuar como un comerciante mientras todavía llevas tu propaganda y esperas el momento adecuado para tomar la liderazgo.

• 22:16Speaker 02

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• 22:22Speaker 03

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• 22:28Speaker 02

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• 22:34Speaker 03

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• 22:46Speaker 02

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• 23:02Speaker 02

  And why is this happening in Siaal Massa? Why North Africa?

• 23:06Speaker 01

  The news that came from that region was that there was a propagandist, a missionary, a da'eeh, called Abu Abdallah Al-Si'i, who had been very successful operating there. He had been an Israeli activist with his brother Abu Abbas from the early days. And he had been sent to propagate his mission in the name of the Imam. Initially, his intention was to go and carry his propaganda in Egypt, because his brother was there. His brother, this Abu Abbas, knew the true identity of Abdallah, knew the Imam, because

• 23:50Speaker 01

  he was with him in Salamia when this was revealed. And he was part of the small group of people who Abdallah took with him on his escape from Salamia all the way by Egypt, Libya, and then Tunisia, Morocco, and finally Salamia. His brother, this Abu Abbas, was active now in Egypt on behalf of the Imam. And Abu Abdallah Al-Si'i wanted to join him, except that- When he was performing his pilgrimage in Mecca, while there, he met a group of Berbers. And these Berbers liked him very much, and they invited him to go back with them

• 24:33Speaker 01

  to Morocco, to the Atlas Mountains. So that's what he does. He changes his course, his direction, and goes to join the Berber tribes in Morocco. And these in the Atlas Mountains, and these Berbers, particularly the Kutama tribe of this community, really adhere very much to his preaching.

• 24:56Matt Lewis?

  Was there something about that region then that meant the people were particularly open to the messages that were being spread?

• 25:04Speaker 01

  That part of North Africa, or Ifritia as it was called then, was under the rule of the Aglabid dynasty. This Aglabid dynasty was a Sunni dynasty, and they ruled over that region on behalf of the Abbasids of Baghdad. These Aglabids were Arabs. And somehow these Berbers felt somehow sidelined or neglected, felt marginalized by these Arabs. So when missionary like Abu Abdallah al-Si comes forward with the message of the Imam revealing himself, and then he will bring peace and joy and order,

• 25:47Speaker 01

  and will bring about the true way in which Islam should be practiced and so on. These Berber tribes, they really adhere to this message. So they are disenchanted by the Aglabids. They have their proposed alternative. What the appeal here is that Abu Abdallah al-Si brings not only a religious message, but a militant message as well that empowers this Kutama. What he gets is more than probably he bargained for because suddenly it finds himself with an army. They rally around him, they form an army, and within a relatively short time, this army.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Starts to conquer territories that were once under Aglabid rule. And until the Aglabids give up, the Aglabid regime falls apart. And the Aglabid amir leaves. So this is a very quick, fast conquest with limited opposition. We are now in the year nine hundred and nine. This is a moment where we have the Imam in Sigilmasa. We have the territories, we have an army, we have the Aglabids who have left their capital, taking all the gold and stuff with them as they escape.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  So this is the right moment to announce the formal entronement of the Imam who is in Sigilmasa. And bring him to what was the former capital of the Aglabids that this militia of Kutamas etc. conquered for them. The city is Kairawan, one of the most beautiful cities and ancient cities in Tunisia today. From the base in Kairawan, this delegation headed by Abu Abdallah. She goes to free Abdallah in Sigilmasa.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  I say free because by now also the cover of Abdallah in Sigilmasa becomes untenable. People are working out that this is not the person they thought he was originally. So things are happening. Abu Abdallah, she has to act fast. He needs to go and fetch Abdallah, the Imam, to bring him to Kairawan in order for him to be formally presented as the Imam and throne him as ruler. Abu Abdallah has one problem. He doesn't know what this Abdullah looked like. He knows that he's in Sijil Masa, but he doesn't know what he looks like.

• 28:34Speaker 01

  So when he arrives in Sijil Masa, he has to ask a child who happened to know through his father the identity of Abdullah to show him who is this Abdullah. He didn't want to get it wrong, or he didn't want to liberate the wrong person. So this is how this meeting between he who had campaigned for years in the name of this Imam finally physically meets the Imam Abdullah.

• 29:03Matt Lewis?

  So if I've got this right, he doesn't actually announce himself as the hidden Imam, but he's given this title of Al Mahdi. Why is that?

• 29:14Speaker 01

  So Al Mahdi is a very important choice of title because Mahdi is a title used in messianic context, specifically in Shia Islam. And it means that they're rightly guided by God with a kind of messianic meaning within this connotation. And with this title, on the ground of him being recognised as a direct descendant from Fatima and Ali, we had the actual beginning of what becomes known as the Fatimid rule. So Fatimid is designated in the sources as the beginning of the Fatimid rule.

• 29:58Matt Lewis?

  Are they openly calling themselves the Fatimids at this point? Is that a name that they give themselves?

• 30:04Speaker 01

  The Fatimids, not just at the beginning, but also afterwards, never actually called themselves Fatimids. They called themselves the Da'ula Tal Haq. The Da'ula, the regime of the tooth, or the toothful regime. Fatimid was mainly used by people outside, observers, sympathizers or detractors of these rulers, who called them Fatimid because of this claim of descent from Fatima. But the moniker stuck and then it became used, whether by detractors or supporters of the dynasty, as a way to call and denominate this dynasty, these rulers, but themselves,

• 30:49Speaker 01

  they called themselves Da'ul al-Hak.

• 30:52Matt Lewis?

  Yeah, interesting. How do the Fatimids go about then cementing their authority? Given that they're a minority, so they're effectively going to have to be a minority ruling the majority Sunni population. How difficult do they find that? And how do they balance relations with other Muslim powers?

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Yes, throughout all the rule, the Fatimids will remain a minority regime ruling over Shia Ismaili regime, ruling over a majority Sunni population with other Shia groups as well, and also non-Muslims minorities. Okay, first of all, in a very practical sense, the moment the Fatimid rule is inaugurated in North Africa, they have no experience of administration or management, not to that scale. These new rulers inherit a vast territory

• 31:48Speaker 01

  that comprises parts of Algeria, parts of Libya, parts of Tunisia, very vast territories. Sicily comes under Fatimid rule. Diaghlabid had conquered Sicily in eight hundred and twenty seven, and it had remained under Muslim rule all the time. And then when the Fatimids arrived, they find themselves having control of Sicily as well. And you go from what you said before, being a covert operation into one that has to take care of what is becoming and building into an empire, vast territories. First of all, the first... First thing they do is to issue an Aman document.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  The Aman is a safe conduct, so to pacify and reach out to the local population. Basically, they say you can continue to practice what you want and do what you like in terms of your faith, et cetera, as long as you recognize us as the new leader. And they also use the administrative structure that the Aglabid has left behind. Aglabid administrators and high officials, they didn't have much of a choice. Either you serve the new masters or disappear physically or otherwise. And therefore, they were encouraged to go and work for the new regime.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  There isn't very much a sense that major repression was going on, that there was obviously some, but not to the extent of heavy involvement in suppressing local population. It was something that even if they wanted to, they could not afford because we have a majority population that is not Shia, let alone Ismaili. And they would not be able to join Ismaili cause even if they wanted to. Because to be initiated into the Ismaili brand of Islam, it's a very carefully vetted process. And therefore, the secrecy of the esoteric doctrines made it sure that only those who were particularly suitable

• 33:59Speaker 01

  and really committed could advance in acquiring this, this, this knowledge.

• 34:04Matt Lewis?

  How, how do they do it then?

• 34:06Speaker 01

  The fact that there was from the start, successful economy impacting positively in the area, that certainly was an inviting, reassuring element. The army, the Berbers, were stationed in position of control. Some dissent, of course, happened and it was suppressed. But I think it was also a time when the rulers were very keen on demonstrating that righteousness, they were very careful in imposing the right. Taxes, they were very careful in ensuring that the army was paid. There are episodes where the Kutarma went on rampage and started looting places and

• 34:49Speaker 01

  the regime punished them and made them return what they had taken. So this idea that this Imam would bring order and justice was witnessed most of the time by the population and therefore was kind of reassuring. It didn't attract like enthusiasm, was at least reassuring in that sense. And then local governors were placed in strategic parts of these territories to look after the affair of the regime. But anyway, the presence in Khyra One was temporary because then in the year 921, Al Mahdi moved to new capital that he had funded into Giza along the coast, the city

• 35:33Speaker 01

  of Al Mahdiya. And this opens new ventures for the dynasty. It was a very significant move and a very significant statement, the fact that this ruler builds. It doesn't just use the old capital of the old regime, but is confident enough and shows vision in building a new capital along the coast. So Mahdiya is completed in 921 and this is where we find now this regime.

• 36:27Speaker 02

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• 36:40Speaker 02

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• 36:45Speaker 03

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• 36:57Speaker 02

  And guess what? We're also now on YouTube. After Dark, a podcast from History Hit.

• 37:15Matt Lewis?

  So how does one Fatimid ruler secure or begin to establish a kind of Fatimid dynasty?

• 37:24Speaker 01

  What he does, he announces his son Abu Qasim as his successor. According to Ismaili rules, the incumbent Imam is the one who appoints publicly his successor. He announces that his son Abu Qasim will be his successor. It will happen at some point, this Abu Qasim will take the ruling name title of Al-Qaim. Again, another title which has very eschatological messianic flavour. And therefore, in a sense, we can technically say that the moment Al-Mardhi announces

• 38:03Speaker 01

  that his son will succeed him as Al-Qaim, he technically begins the Fatimid not just as a rule, but as a dynasty. So there is a dynastic project that begins here.

• 38:17Matt Lewis?

  I did want to just talk about the establishment of that capital at Makhdiya. Moving it to the coast seems like a really loud signal to other powers that the Fatimids are planning to be a major force in the area. You know, they're not going to sit inland at an old capital that the Aglabids had had. They're moving to the coast, which positions them on the Mediterranean, able to move about the sea and also threaten other powers. They must have looked like something that the Abbasids and the Byzantines and everybody else might need to keep a really close eye on, might need to be a bit worried about. Was that part of the idea of moving there to kind of announce themselves on the international stage?

• 38:57Speaker 01

  Yes, absolutely. The Fatimids become a naval force, both in military terms and in commercial terms. So it's a statement to say, we are here to partake into the commercial and military opportunities that the Mediterranean Sea has to offer. And they also have the equipment and the resources to build a navy. Sicily here becomes a very important part of the growing Fatimid empire. Because it is from Sicily that the Fatimids acquired wood to build the boats.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  And the best place where they had the arsenal, etc. The site of Mahdia was from ancient time, it has a very prominent place as a point of reference in maritime trade. The Fatimids built a bespoke capital bridge with symbolism, also in terms of the shape of the fortress and the famous mosque of Mahdia, the way it is positioned in relation to it. At this point, the Fatimids announced themselves with this move as competitors with the Umayyads of Al-Andalus in the Iberian Peninsula. We have the other Sunni dynasty that had taken control of Al-Andalus and were very prominent players in Mediterranean trade.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  They announced themselves as contenders against the Abbasids, who occupied the eastern Mediterranean and the Byzantine Empire as well. Let's not forget that the Byzantine force. In fact, the navy, the move to Mahdia, it sends such powerful message that the King Simeon of Bulgaria, who had aimed at challenging the Byzantine advances, the Soviet Christian King, Simeon of Bulgaria, who has issues against the Byzantine. And at some point, he sends a voice to Al-Mahdi in Mahdia to seek an alliance, wanting the

• 41:02Speaker 01

  maritime force of the Fatimids to join the Bulgarian king in order to fight against the Byzantine. The agreement was reached and then it fell apart, but it gives a sense of how this signal that the Fatimids sent was really noted and received by all the major players, geopolitical players at the time. But Mahdia, and based on the Mediterranean in that sense, had another, sent also another message. And the message was that in the vision of Al-Mahdi, the conquest of North Africa, etc., was only a stepping stone towards major conquest, major achievements.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  The ultimate goal of this dynasty was to uproot the Abbasids in Baghdad.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  So having a naval base in Mahalia served as a way to expand eastwards, the territories, eventually conquering Syrian Palestine and after that eventually reach Baghdad.

• 42:12Matt Lewis?

  Well, unfortunately, we've run out of time because this has been fascinating. But having got the Fatimids established there, we need another episode, I think, on their actual rule and what happened in the empire. But this has been an absolutely fascinating exploration of how this minority religion managed to establish itself as an empire. And we definitely have to come back and revisit the Fatimids, I think, to see what they get up to now that they're established and now that they're in power. But thank you so much for joining us for this day, it's been fascinating.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  Thank you very much for inviting me.

• 42:42Matt Lewis?

  I hope you've enjoyed this overview of the rise of the Fatimid Empire. You can find episodes about Saladin, the Assassins and the Crusades in our back catalogue if you'd like to follow their story on a little bit further. There are new instalments of Gone Medieval every Tuesday and Friday, so please come back to join Eleanor and I for more from the greatest millennium in human history. And don't forget to subscribe or follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and tell all of your friends and family that you've gone medieval. You can sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries with a new release every single week at historyhit.com/subscribe. Anyway, I'd better let you go. I've been Matt Lewis and we've just gone medieval with History Hits.