#403 - “Pentagon Is On Red Alert” Mossad Just Declared as #1 Threat | Scott Horton

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Scott Horton (@scotthortonshow) is director of the Libertarian Institute, host of 'The Scott Horton Show', co-host of “Provoked” with Darryl Cooper, and author of several books. SPONSORS https://dupe.com - Check out their 100% free 'research for me' comparison shopping tool. https://shopify.com/dannyjones - Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial today. https://hexclad.com/dannyjones - Get 10% off your forever cookware today. https://quo.com/danny - Try QUO for free PLUS get 20% off your first 6 months. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS Scott's YouTube Show: @scotthortonshow https://scotthortonacademy.com https://x.com/scotthortonshow FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - What Scott learned from 6,000 interviews 06:10 - Bush Sr.'s "New World Order" 09:24 - Oklahoma City Bombing cover-up 17:08 - Who's really pulling the strings 23:32 - Skull & bones society 28:36 - U. S. interest payments on national debt 31:34 - What's Israel going to do without America? 39:00 - Israel's end time prophecy 41:19 - Wolfowitz Doctrine 50:08 - Iraqi exile Ahmed Chalabi's scheme 59:34 - The idiotic thinking behind the 2nd Iraq war 01:10:03 - Mossad agents dancing during 9/11 01:14:13 - What Netanyahu said on September 11th 01:18:25 - Bin Laden's manifesto 01:25:42 - The timeline of Middle East interventions 01:27:39 - The U. S. is still funding the Taliban 01:30:17 - Why Scott never believed in Trump 01:37:58 - How the Iran conflict will end 01:45:52 - Trump's path out of Iran conflict 01:46:51 - Iran's nuclear program 02:02:08 - Iran's top nuclear target 02:09:00 - Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapons program 02:15:47 - Iran's best military advantage 02:21:03 - Why Trump might be innocent in Epstein scandal 02:26:04 - Trump's loyalty problem 02:33:28 - Palestine 02:44:54 - Israel's army of Palestinian slaves 02:52:41 - Adolf Hitler vs. Winston Churchill 02:54:26 - WW2 was Woodrow Wilson's fault 03:03:31 - The pact Hitler & Stalin made 03:09:19 - Why Hitler declared war on the United States 03:10:47 - How Trump's Iran attack is like Pearl Harbor 03:14:26 - "Trump is enslaved to Netanyahu" 03:18:32 - The FBI's secret Epstein files Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:07Danny Jones?

  Well, thanks for teaching, give me a little skate lesson, bro.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Hey, that was fun, man.

• 1:10Danny Jones?

  That was fun. Yeah, I gotta get a bigger ramp. The mini ramps aren't as, the three footers aren't as good as the bigger ones.

• 1:16Speaker 02

  I was afraid.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  I'm more afraid of little ramps. And I took a risk, and on a stranger's board, but I think it worked out, dude. Got a little bit of work done there.

• 1:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man, that was fun. I know you've probably told this story like a million times, but all this stuff that you talk about and all the books that you write, and you're like a galaxy brain of all of the wars America's been in, and American foreign policy, and the world, and I'm just a skateboarder from Florida. I don't know much about this stuff. I'm sure you talk to a lot of experts on this stuff all the time, so I'm a...

• 1:49Speaker 02

  That's the answer.

• 1:50Danny Jones?

  Try to keep this like, super high level for me today. I'm gonna try to understand it the best I can. I know a little bit.

• 1:55Speaker 02

  I'm just a skateboarder from Texas. And like you, I just do an interview show. It's only, I started my interview show in 2003, and I've done 6,000 interviews since then.

• 2:04Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:05Speaker 02

  So I learned all this stuff doing that, basically. And then also, I was assistant editor and then editor of antiwar.com for many years. I'm now editorial director, which doesn't mean too much. It's the rest of the guys doing all the work over there right now, but...

• 2:20Danny Jones?

  I love your website. Your website's super cool looking. It's like, super old school. You kept it old school.

• 2:25Speaker 02

  We're always in the process of working on the new site that never comes.

• 2:30Danny Jones?

  Don't do it. Leave it like it is, bro. It's sick.

• 2:32Speaker 02

  Oh, Eric's gonna love that. Yeah, uh, it is. I remember the day that they updated it in 2004 and it went from yellow to kind of red, white and blue like that. And I was like, wow, dude, post-nuke, you know, it's PHP dude, it's the latest thing, you know? I don't know if it was really the latest thing, but it was a very fancy update at the time, but, um, anyways. Uh, I worked for Eric Garrison, Justin Ramondo there, and I just learned a hell of a lot of this stuff and I guess I'm always, um, trying to kind of build my own timeline in my head of how I understand all this stuff and how it all plays into it, uh, you know,

• 3:11Speaker 02

  uh, each other, the different things happening. And, um, I guess it's kind of a libertarian economic analysis kind of thing too, where just,

• 3:20Speaker 02

  you know, to a real libertarian, a real free market guy, essentially anything that the government does is going to cause some distortion in the economy and in the natural order of things. And then it's probably going to be a problem. Maybe it's necessary, but it's probably going to cause problems. And then you're going to have more excuses for government to intervene more to fix the problems that they created and then continue like in the army, they call it a self-licking ice cream cone. It's the same thing, whether you're talking about, you know, the welfare state or the regulatory state or, you know, inflationary money and all the different things that government does that cause all these social problems, then they just are writing themselves new mandates

• 4:01Speaker 02

  to do more things. And then it's applying that same kind of analysis to the military and the American world empire. And if you go, oh my God, look, they're burning our flag. And then you go, oh, wait a minute. Well, what did happen before that? Then you'll find that it all goes back to Harry Truman or whatever, you know what I mean? It's all, but it comes down to the fact that as everyone listening to this knows, we're number one. America is the world's superpower, the world empire.

• 4:32Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  Not Iran. America. The question is whether America is dominant in Eurasia, or whether Eurasia is dominant in Eurasia. That's the question. And so, um, it doesn't mean that everyone that, every government that our government picks on overseas is made up by heroes or whatever. There's no virtue in victimhood. But it means that America is the aggressor. There's, if there's ever, you know, a world government, it's just Washington DC attempting to dictate to the rest of the planet.

• 5:03Danny Jones?

  So how, but how does like a skateboarder from Austin, Texas, getting so interested in, in all of this stuff? Like, how did it kick off for you?

• 5:12Speaker 02

  Um, you know, I guess. Well, okay, I guess. I always kinda, you know, my parents are just barely left of center Democrats. So luckily at least, you know, I was raised in the eighties and the early nineties, you know, was my childhood. So I wasn't raised to revere Ronald Reagan. Not that like I was raised to despise him or anything, but just, there were a lot of kids who were raised to revere him like a founding father or whatever. So luckily I was spared that, you know what I mean? For like my formative years, you know, when I was young. And then I don't remember when I first learned that the government was responsible for all the cocaine trade, but I'm pretty sure it was before H.W. Bush ever became president. I knew that from the Iran-Contra scandal in the eighties.

• 5:57Speaker 02

  I don't remember how I first knew that, but it's one of those things that kinda I always knew that the government was running drugs.

• 6:02Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  And at the same time, they were doing the giant just say no and drug war campaigns and really mandatory minimums and locking people in prison for consuming and trading in the drugs that the government ultimately was supplying at the top of the chain.

• 6:15Danny Jones?

  How do you know this pre-internet?

• 6:18Speaker 02

  I don't know. You know, I'm from Austin.

• 6:20Danny Jones?

  Did a lot of people know this?

• 6:21Speaker 02

  There's a lot of, you know, left wing and right wing dissident communities in Austin and libertarians as well. So there's always, you know, Channel 10, the Access Channel, even going, I don't know.

• 6:32Danny Jones?

  And they would cover this type of shit?

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Maybe I just learned this from a friend's older brother or something, you know what I mean? I don't know. Like I say, I don't remember where I first heard that, but I kind of knew that, like, all going in. And I remember when H.W. Bush did Iraq War I.

• 6:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  I was all for it, just not that I respected him or cared about restoring the monarchy in Kuwait back to the throne, but I just want to see some explosions, man. I was a 15-year-old boy in ninth grade at the time. So I just want to see a war, because that would be cool. I don't know.

• 6:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  But I remember thinking...

• 7:01Danny Jones?

  They probably listened to Metallica when they dropped those bombs.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. They're playing new Metallica, torturing people in Guantanamo, which makes sense. But I remember thinking, you know, I remember when George Bush Senior said he didn't need a congressional resolution or a declaration of war to go to war for Iraq War I, because he had a UN resolution. And I remember knowing that that ain't right, because even just my seventh grade understanding of the Constitution, I know that that's not where the war power resides, is in New York City there, you know? And then he eventually did bow down and get authorization. But previously, he had, you know, clarity, didn't have to. And then he announced the New World Order, like, four or five times in major speeches. And then there was already kind of this pre-existing right-wing patriot conspiracy community

• 7:48Speaker 02

  at that time, which had interpreted that phrase, because it had been used in the sense in the past, as...

• 7:53Danny Jones?

  New World Order?

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, the plan to build a real one-world federal government under the United Nations, and, which is not really right. And that's not what Bush meant by it. But that's what I thought he meant by it, and he was, after all, saying that they were the ones who authorized America to go to war or not, which, you know, and there was like, the controversy, he may be too young for this, but there was a guy named Michael New, who was serving in Bosnia as a peacekeeper in 95, 96, and he objected to being forced to wear a UN patch, because he was saying that, you know, this, like, we're building their empire kind of thing and serving in a subservient role. When really, that wasn't true. Like, the patch was just a sop to the Allies, but it was an American-dominated thing all along. But anyway, that was kind of a big controversy at that time, was, and

• 8:39Speaker 02

  Bill Clinton would talk that way, too. And in fact, um, oh, I have something for you here.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  These are my last two books.

• 8:48Danny Jones?

  Holy shit, look at this thing dude. It's like a phone book.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Don't be intimidated, that's like one-third footnotes. There's 8,000 citations in there for you, so you know I'm right about everything. But sort of the first two chapters of that, it's yes, how Washington started the new Cold War with Russia and the catastrophe in Ukraine.

• 9:08Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 9:09Speaker 02

  And the first two chapters that are, in a way, me kinda coming to grips with how wrong I was back then. Like for one example, they never, I mean, this may be the main example, they never wanted to integrate Russia into NATO and into America's

• 9:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 9:23Speaker 02

  international security system. They always wanted to keep them on the outside, but they lied to them all along. And then I also kinda fell for those lies in a way, because they would say, oh yeah, no, we definitely want to do this with you and whatever with them, which I took to be the big threat. So, for example, in 1997, they created the NATO-Russia Council, which was, you know, as they put it, "an alliance with the alliance." And they were telling the Russians, essentially, "You'll never be part of our group, but we'll let you like sit in the waiting room." Was essentially what it was. I looked at it and was like, oh no, see, they're integrating Russia into NATO and they'll have a one-world army of the North and then it'll be a world government thing. And then, so what I thought was going on at that time was really not right. Then I went back and, you know, obviously had to completely, you know,

• 10:09Speaker 02

  re-study that whole era of history, and as I have over the last 20 years since then.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  But, so this is, you know, basically the John Birch Society conspiracy theory of the coming one-world government that never comes. Uh, so that was what really got me interested in it all. And it was also is the era of the Waco massacre and the massive cover-up of the Oklahoma bombing, where's a bunch of government informants that helped McVeigh do it, and they were allowed to all get away with it because being government informants, that means a bunch of FBI agents would have to get in trouble for all their prior knowledge that they didn't act on appropriately. And so they just buried that and made all that go away. But again, that kind of right-wing patriot conspiracy community already existed there. It pre-existed the Waco massacre, it was huge after Waco. And then, so as soon as they started lying about Oklahoma City, the truth came out, like, within the first year, everybody knew, like in the, the...

• 10:58Speaker 02

  Right wing magazines where they had the names of the neo-Nazi bank robber group that had helped McVeigh with the thing and the rest of it. So, and then there was, you know, the massive cover up.

• 11:07Danny Jones?

  Wasn't McVeigh tied to Waco somehow?

• 11:10Speaker 02

  Well, he had been there.

• 11:11Danny Jones?

  He was there.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  He was there like during the siege protesting against it.

• 11:15Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  And, you know, obviously was highly motivated by what happened there to do what he did. But just point being, not just that a bunch of guys, you know, helped him do it, but that the government let them get away with it and the media let the government let them get away with it in a way that like to me really reinforced the idea that there's some secret network of power here that we're not aware of. How can they get every newspaper editor in America to go along with this? And it's just because they're lazy and stupid. Just because I was smarter than them as a kid doesn't mean that like they should have been smarter than me as guys older than me. Who's, well, the FBI says there is no John Doe too. So I guess we're over that and they just move on with their lives.

• 11:54Danny Jones?

  30,000 foot view of Oklahoma City thing, like without getting, spending too much time on it. Like what was it all about?

• 12:00Speaker 02

  Well, it was.

• 12:01Danny Jones?

  Like I know what happened, but like what was the whole conspiracy?

• 12:04Speaker 02

  Okay. So there, I mean, there's a very big chance that it was a deliberately provoked attack by, you know, undercover informants who wanted it to happen. A couple of them were not just informants, but were like agents provocateur involved in the thing. So, but then the idea, the easiest explanation is that it was a sting that went wrong, that FBI was supposed to swoop in and be heroes, but they just got outsmarted. And I think it's a proven fact. We know that there were two Ryder trucks and essentially the FBI was following one truck and they knew it. So they just brought in another truck and did the bombing with that one and outsmarted the feds and killed all the people. And then they covered it up and, you know, they admitted, I mean, the, the US attorney who prosecuted

• 12:48Speaker 02

  the case admitted in an interview that he and all of his attorneys all agreed that they were letting it, uh, guilty people go free. They just didn't, their excuse was they didn't want to jeopardize the death penalty case against McVeigh. Cause if they had to admit that all these other neo-Nazi friends of his helped him do it, then that raises the question whether he was just the idiot. Driving the truck and they were the ones who really did it and they didn't want to cast reasonable doubt on his guilt. They had to get his scalp. And so we can either give everybody life, or we can give one guy death. So we're gonna do that. And that's their excuse. That's their official excuse for letting the guilty go free. It's in the book Oklahoma City by Gumbel and Charles. Larry Mackey is the name of the federal prosecutor who admitted

• 13:33Speaker 02

  that to them. So

• 13:35Danny Jones?

  So I heard that that building had a bunch of, it was FBI headquarters, right?

• 13:39Speaker 02

  No, ATF.

• 13:40Danny Jones?

  ATF. Okay, that's what it was.

• 13:43Speaker 02

  And Secret Service and Agriculture Department and all different, you know, government agencies in there. And there was a daycare center, so 20 children were killed in the thing. It was an absolute catastrophe. Maybe we'll have a callback to Oklahoma later in the show when we talk about Iran. But yeah, anyway, point being, that was why I was a conspiracy nut, was because in the 90s, there was a lot of conspiracy stuff that was right, you know, and also I was wrong about the one world government thing. And then, but by the time of W. Bush came in and was launching Iraq War II, it was right around, would have been, I guess, late 02, early 03, that I finally got it through my thick skull that like, Colin Powell is not driving, and this is not about building up the United Nations at all. And

• 14:27Speaker 02

  in fact, it's clear that they had to drag Cheney kicking and screaming to get him to agree to even ask the UN for a resolution at all. They wanted to just go. And, you know, as the British also insisted that they at least try to get a UN resolution to go. But the idea that they were essentially going to go after these rogue states in the interest of building up this baby blue global federal union thing was just obviously not right. You know, by the time of the invasion, at least I was over it. And, and you can just tell, like, you know, Their whole, you know, the Cheney regime, the W. Bush, Dick Cheney government, their entire thing was that they're the rulers of the universe. Nobody can tell them anything. They have the National Security Council. They don't need the UN Security Council. Again,

• 15:11Speaker 02

  it was Powell who like made them go to the UN. But Bush and Cheney were like, I don't know if Cheney even ever agreed to it, but Bush was like reluctantly agreed to it. But anyway, my friends, the John Birchers, I really like these guys. They're great guys. In fact, one of their guys emailed me and we had a nice little phone call last week. So I really respect them. They're great people. They love the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and they're great guys. But just the one world government thing, that was the long answer to your question. That was what really got me interested in all the America's relationship with the rest of the world as being really the driving factor in determining the federal government's relationship with us here at home in the States.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  That, you know, as long as we have a world empire, we're driving to suicide, right? So whether it's a deliberate conspiracy or not, this is how you destroy America is you overextend the damn thing and break it. And so that's clearly what's happening. So my same concerns weren't really allayed. You know what I mean? It's like, because in the John Birch theory, first they gotta wreck America, then the rest of the world will take it over one day. Well, just forget the second part, but they are wrecking America. And you can see why the Birchers think it's deliberate. How could you be the rulers of the most powerful nation state in the world and then just be a bunch of John McCarthys and just drive the thing off the cliff and die? And look what they've done in just the 30 years since the end of the Cold War, 35 years, they destroyed everything. You couldn't

• 16:36Speaker 02

  have possibly had more irresponsible stewards of American power than the Bushes, the Clintons, Biden and McCain and these just absolute scum. Susan Collins, who's supposed to be the correcting mechanism here? There isn't one. You know, it's Biden's all the way down. In fact, that's probably a good way to think of like our, our. War with Russia in Eastern Europe and our terror wars in the Middle East as well is just Joe Biden won the election of 88, the one where he was forced out for plagiarism, whatever. Joe Biden won in 88. He's been president this whole time. This has been the Biden regime this whole time. That's all it is.

• 17:12Danny Jones?

  Have you ever tried buying something online when suddenly you realize you have 25 tabs open from Reddit to T-Mu to Amazon? That was me recently shopping for new office chairs. One site says the chair is perfect. The other site says it sucks. And then the other one says it destroys your back. And before you know it, you're comparing foam density like you work in a furniture lab, which is why I started using dupe.com's research for me tool. You just type in what you're looking for, like comfortable office chair for long recording days. And dupe does the research for you in just minutes. It filters through sources, compares options, breaks down features, specs, pricing, and gives you a straight answer on what to buy and why. And my favorite part is it tells you what not to buy. So it can save you the trouble of making expensive mistakes. So instead of wasting your whole

• 17:55Danny Jones?

  day, use dupe. Be prepared to save yourself a ton of time and money. Just go to D U P E dot com and tell it what you're looking to buy. That's D U P E dot com to finally feel confident about what to buy. Who really is behind it pulling the strings though? Like it can't be the presidents themselves, right? There has to be some other form of power behind it. That's like making everything happen. Or I mean, I mean, it feels to me like there's like this hidden power structure that's like hidden in the shadows behind all this stuff.

• 18:23Speaker 02

  Well, you know, so that's the thing. And that was what I thought too. How do you get the editor of the Dallas Morning News to just pretend he's never heard of McVeigh's friends before? Like whatever, there must be a secret thing going on here, whatever. But that's not it. Like they're just lazy and stupid. And as far as like the actual, you know, the power mongers is really just comes down to, I believe, what Ross Perot called back in 1992, the special interests. And I remember asking my folks, what does that even mean? The special interests. And I don't know if they defined it very well for me, but I'll define it very well for you. The special interests are the bankers, the arms manufacturers, the oil men, agribusiness, and Israel.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  You know?

• 19:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 19:08Speaker 02

  I mean, that's it. They're the ones who have the biggest stake in the game.

• 19:12Danny Jones?

  Neocons, right? That's what the neocon is.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  Well, the neocons of the Israeli lobby, the vanguard of the Israel lobby.

• 19:17Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  And, and, and with their ties to the military industrial complex as well. But you have, you know, these different power factions with tens or hundreds of billions of dollars at stake in their role in the economy every year and all that. So they're all, you know, completely embedded with the national government and, and play a huge role in determining its policies. And the Israelis are no slouches in that. I save them till the end, just kind of for effect or whatever. Cause it, it should sound silly that a foreign government is one of the big lobbies in America.

• 19:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  Over, I mean, if you'd never heard of such a thing, wouldn't you just assume that if a foreign government wants to talk to America, the ambassador's office is over there at the State Department. Go talk to him.

• 20:01Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 20:02Speaker 02

  Right? What do you mean you're lobbying our legislature? What do you mean you're lobbying our state legislatures?

• 20:07Danny Jones?

  For Kentucky?

• 20:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:09Danny Jones?

  One of the poorest states in this country?

• 20:11Speaker 02

  Passing laws determining who Texans are allowed to boycott or not, if they're gonna have a contract with the state of any kind. And Texas isn't the only one. I mean, these guys are way out over their skis as far, I don't know if that's the right phrase for it. They're just, they're playing a role that they should not be playing in our society whatsoever. It sounds completely crazy. If I tell you, look, man, you know, Monsanto and Cargill and these, you know, gigantic, um, you know, Archer Daniels Midland, that these zillion dollar firms lobby like hell in Washington and it's all really corrupt and they're stealing money from you, dude. You'd be like, okay, yeah, that sounds right. But these are American companies tilling American soil,

• 20:52Speaker 02

  feeding Americans food, even if it's got Roundup all over it or what. But like, at least we, we know who they are and what they're doing. Now, I don't like it at all when they're buying up, you know, wheat fields in Ukraine and trying to enlist the government to protect their investments overseas. That's, you know, sickening corrupt bloody imperialism. But I just mean here, in fact, that's the kind of thing they do, you know, lobby for, but, but anyway, Israel ain't got really anything to do with America, other than in the most artificial sense, because of all of that lobbying. You know, they attach themselves to us when we don't get anything out of it at all, except terrorist attacks. And bankrupt budgets.

• 21:31Danny Jones?

  What do we, what, what do we get for them? Is there any way, is there any like way in your mind you could sort of reverse the argument on yourself? Or like steel man, the fact like what, what, what, what benefit do we get if, even if it's like us, almost nothing.

• 21:48Speaker 02

  Well, they're gonna, they're gonna say like tech patents or whatever.

• 21:51Danny Jones?

  Tech patents.

• 21:52Speaker 02

  I mean, not even patents, right? Tech innovations of whatever their companies do that.

• 21:56Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 21:57Speaker 02

  I can't name a bunch of, you know, good ones. I know that they, as James Bamford reported, that they provided the software to run the NSA's computers and got all their own backdoors in it. Doesn't sound like we're benefiting from that, you know? Which I don't know why they've even bothered because Snowden leaked and Greenwald reported, they didn't put this in the post of the Times, but they reported it in the Guardian, that the NSA gives America's entire haul over to Israel every day. Everything, which is everything. So, yeah. If you, look, if you take, I mean, what are the, what are the pro-Israel advocates say? They go, well, look, when, when Israel cashes a giant welfare check.

• 22:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  It buys arms from American companies. So you ought to feel great about that. Well, wait a minute, they stole that money from you, bounced it off Israel and gave it to one of your neighbors who makes bombs for a living. How's that benefit you?

• 22:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  It doesn't at all. And if you take, you know, the, whatever, round up, call it four billion a year of money that we put into welfare for them, that they spend on American arms. That's still all a net loss. First of all, in being taxed from us anyway, for that we're being denied the capital to invest in our own lives. But then, at best, they're making a real fancy, super expensive piece of equipment to go and destroy lives and property with. And then throw it out when it's useless, you know? It's all, they're not providing goods and services to anyone. They're completely just a net negative on everything.

• 23:28Danny Jones?

  Right. I wonder though, like, you know how, you know how in Terminator, when the dude, the guy who like turns into like the metal blob or whatever, he like loses a limb or whatever, and then he like goes back and it melts back into his body? I'm like thinking of that as like America and Israel. And I'm like, they are so rooted in our politics and our.

• 23:53Danny Jones?

  Economics in everything here, at what point is it like this, is it even America anymore? This is more Israel than it is America. You know what I mean?

• 24:06Speaker 02

  Look, so and this kind of goes back to-

• 24:07Danny Jones?

  The people in control, the people that make the most money, the people that are in all the power. Like it's basically like, we're just sitting here talking about it, like they can't control America anymore. We are Americans, right? But the people at the top layer, the people that control society and make all the money, they're, they're all the same. They are Israel, like they are part of Israel and they want it. They are working for Israel. So like, at what point does it become futile?

• 24:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, that's one way to put it. Like going back to like my younger conspiracy days. It was all supposedly about the skull and bones, right? The Anglo-American establishment, the Pierces and the Whitneys and the Abbott's and the Rockefellers and the Morgans, which even the Rockefellers were sort of white trash latecomers to all of that skull and bone stuff. But all that's overdue, right? Like I know Bush, and this was part of it too. The Bushes are skull and bones. John Kerry was skull and bones, whatever. That's like the very last gasp of that old WASP establishment, right? Like they, they, um, they kind of blew their wad in Vietnam and have been, you know, there's, this is a point that Darryl Cooper, my co-host on our show provoked, has been making a lot lately is,

• 25:15Speaker 02

  that like, say what you will about the Bonesmen, they believed that this was their country, right? That they had a sense of, of like real pride and, and a sense of responsibility of stewardship over it, which they got us into a couple of world wars and, you know, really sucked on a lot of things or whatever. But point being that really now, no one's in charge. It's just an imperial court. The, the Rockefellers built this world empire and then lost control of it. Now it's up for grabs, right? For the highest bidder. If UAE can pick up the bone, toss a little bit of money around and get a war in Yemen, then they'll do that. And there's no-

• 25:59Speaker 02

  There's no, you would think that this would be the role of the elected political establishment, Right. But, but there's, they're not. I mean, they're, they're there to take that call. Yeah. You know what I mean? And in fact, like, that's a perfect example, really, you know, I just picked it at random, was in 2015, when Mohammed bin Zayed of UAE and Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia, he had just become the Defense Minister, 29 years old. They wanted to have a war in Yemen. And they, and this wasn't Israel, it was them. And they came to- The Saudis? Yeah, the Saudis and the Emiratis. And they came to Obama and said, man, we want to bomb the Houthis. They just sacked the capital city and took over. This, the Shiites have taken

• 26:40Speaker 02

  over the capital city of Sanaa now, and we won't stand for it. Help us kill them. And Obama told them, okay, fine, green light. And they fought a war for what, seven years? Eight years, really, I guess it ended, beginning of 22, they finally called it off. So from 15 to 22, so seven years. They bombed the crap out of Yemen. And then causing excess deaths, this isn't, you know, direct violence. I think the direct violence was something like 75,000 or something. And then with the excess deaths of something like 300,000 people killed in this horrific war. And it was just because this guy Mohammed bin Zayed of UAE, who most Americans have never heard of, called up his buddy Mohammed bin Salman, who most Americans,

• 27:25Speaker 02

  at least at that time, had never heard of. Yeah. This is before, you know, he was Crown Prince Bonesaw over there, you know, murdering Khashoggi and all that. Wasn't that famous yet? So, and these guys just called up the Obama government and essentially enlisted America to fight a war for them. Because of course, it's our planes, it's our bombs, it's our, you know, contractors doing all the maintenance and the care and feeding of the planes and doing the- And we just see that. -air traffic control and the mid-air refueling. It's our war, as the Yemenis called it, the American Saudi war against us. Like, the Americas, you never even heard of it. The American people were never even consulted one bit about this. They just did it. They just announced a press release, this is happening.

• 28:06Danny Jones?

  So the people that are in charge here just see dollar signs. The military destro complex just sees money, like bombs, machinery. We just ship it over there and we get to make a ton of money. That's, that's high level. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot more involved in that, but like, to distill it down, that's, at the end of the day, what it comes down to.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  You know, as any socialist would tell you, if the capitalists can buy a congressman and use political force to have his way and to seek rents and exploit the helpless, they'll do that. The libertarians' argument is, yeah, what are you gonna do? Go full communism? You gotta have private property. You have to have prices. You have to have capitalism, or you're dead. So we'll just have to get rid of the government then. That's the problem, is that there's a Congress to pass a Federal Reserve Act. There's a Congress to pass a declaration of war or authorization for the president to take our money and turn it into bombs and kill innocent people with it. We gotta dismantle as much of that power as we possibly can.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  Because as Harry Brown said, it's not just abuse of power, it's the power to abuse. As long as it's there. And in the case of America, we're talking, what? Already, the budget, the official budget was 800 billion. But the, the real budget calculated by Winslow Wheeler is 1.5 trillion dollars on the military that they're already spending. Now they wanna bump the official number up to 1.5, which would put us over 2.

• 29:37Danny Jones?

  Isn't the interest like a trillion or something? Isn't the interest alone just insane number?

• 29:41Speaker 02

  I don't remember the, I don't remember the number right now, but I know that on the line graph, it's the biggest part of the budget other than social security. It's more than Medicare, Medicaid, or the Pentagon budget. So the interest on the debt is more than even the cost of the entire world empire right now, at least on the official, the official number. Yeah. And it's at thirty nine now. It's at almost forty trillion. So think of, here's a way to think about that, Danny, would be that you take the income tax of not just Florida, but just take Florida, take the income tax paid by every single person in the state of Florida. All that money, it didn't go to helping some little old lady in the hospital. It didn't go even to killing some poor little kid in Palestine.

• 30:26Speaker 02

  That money just went to pay the interest on the debt to the central bank of South Korea.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  One third of everything, people, every bit of their effort and blood, sweat and tears. And you think of people who are, you know, doing real work for a living, manual labor and busting their asses and paying taxes through the nose, dude. And it's just, our government just takes it, they might as well just be lighting it on fire in front of our face like a joke.

• 30:50Danny Jones?

  Jesus Christ.

• 30:51Speaker 02

  They hate us so much, dude, you can't even quantify it. It's unbelievable, the contempt that they have for us.

• 30:57Danny Jones?

  US interest payments reach one trillion. Yeah, like, a better analogy to what I was trying to say earlier is like, forget the Terminator analogy. It's more like the science of the lambs when the dude puts on the lady's skin, he's wearing your skin. It's like them, they're just wearing America's skin and they're acting like they're us.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  There's a lot of that, man. There's a lot of that.

• 31:18Danny Jones?

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• 32:34Speaker 02

  Just look at from the Israelis' point of view, okay? Or from the neoconservatives' point of view. They need America. What's Israel gonna do without America? If you're the Israeli Foreign Ministry or whatever, and you have your list of priorities, why actually, nothing else matters at all, other than, you know, perpetuating your power and influence and increasing your power and influence in the United States.

• 32:58Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 32:58Speaker 02

  What if America turned their back on Israel?

• 33:01Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 33:01Speaker 02

  And they had to fight all their own battles, pay all their own bills.

• 33:06Speaker 02

  They'd be in a much tougher position. Or at least, probably not. They'd at least have to rein in their insane ambitions. How about that? And so, for them, it's everything, dude.

• 33:16Danny Jones?

  How do they let these videos of, how does, how does, for Israel, for as competent as they are, as a, as, you know, their intelligence services are super competent, they're very good at controlling the most powerful nation in the world. How do they let all this shit leak out of like the Ben Gavir, doing all this crazy shit and like celebrating about the gallows and then going in front, just, I saw a clip this morning of him saying, "Oh, we're not gonna let Trump do that. Like, we're not gonna let him get out of this war," or whatever. "We can't let that happen." And all the other stuff, like, he's like, intimidating those people as protesters that were like bent over, they looked like Guantanamo prisoners, like,

• 34:00Danny Jones?

  it's insane that they let this shit get out, or they even let cameras into the room. Because they can see, I mean, it's not, it's not, like, they're not, it's no secret, all this stuff, like, it's, Out of the bag more than ever now.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  Well, I think their control mostly comes from money and blackmail and intimidation. You know, whereas their can their public relations has always been extremely ham handed. Because what can they do? It's a lie from morning till night, right? I mean, they're absolutely the aggressors. Mass murdering and displacing the people whose property and whose country they're stealing. And so like, what are they gonna do? Be honest? I mean, most of the time it's they're trying like scrambling to come up with some line of bullshit to make it somehow seem plausible or whatever. So they're not practiced at really controlling the narrative that well. They're or at least I guess maybe in the past, they were more effective at it.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  They'd have Frank Luntz do these, you know, focus groups and figure out exactly the right way to phrase things and stuff. But it's just, you know, with the last couple of years of war and that everybody's got a 3G, you know, cell phone camera and whatever, there's just so much footage of of the abject cruelty of the Israeli regime that there's just no amount of spin that you can put on that. I mean, even that footage of Ben Gavir was like, somebody's got a camera in their pocket, right? That wasn't, I don't think official like cameraman footage following him around is just, everybody's got a camera and this stuff is just gets out. There's nothing they can do about it. And I think it also may be too, that there's at least a side of Israeli propaganda,

• 35:40Speaker 02

  which is go ahead and hate us then. Because that kind of serves too, that like, see, the whole world is against us. If it wasn't for us, because remember, you know, all governments are based on the fear of their populace, at the very least of the fear of that it would be worse if it wasn't us. It'd be somebody else and we're the ones keeping the somebody else away and all of that. So remember in V for Vendetta, I want the people to remember why they need us, right? So in the Israeli government, it's the same thing. They have to tell their people all day that everyone in the world hates you. Everyone in the world wants to kill you. If it wasn't for us, they would. And that's why you're here. And that's why you can't just go to Europe. Don't leave, even if there's rockets incoming from the north.

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Don't get on a plane and go to France where you'd be perfectly safe and happy. Nope, you gotta stay here because every non-Jew in the world wakes up in the morning thinking of only one thing, getting his hands around your neck. You know what I mean? And they do tell their people that constantly. So then. If they are, if their actual, you know, activities are driving people toward antisemitism, or even more generally toward anti-Israel sentiments, then that's actually great ammunition for them too, to tell their own people, "See, I told you, they hate us, man, those people, they hate us." Think how powerful that was in our, you know, it's kind of worn off a bit now, but think about after September 11th, "Oh, they hate us, they hate us, they hate us, they hate us." And then, so what does that mean? "I guess we gotta kill them, dude."

• 37:08Speaker 02

  You can't just let people who hate you run around there, they're gonna get you someday, so you're gonna have to do something, you know? And they just, there's this, um, sorry, one more thing on that, is for you and for your audience too, there's a book called, um, pardon me, a documentary called "Defamation", and it's by an Israeli Jew who goes out in search of antisemitism, and he can't find any anywhere. And he hangs out with Abe Foxman at the ABL and all, yeah, he goes to Europe, he goes to America and all this, and then, I'll go ahead and ruin it for you, the punchline is the worst antisemite in the whole movie is his Jewish grandma, who lives on the West Bank, and who's an, who's an original Zionist from before the Second World War, and who's

• 37:52Speaker 02

  telling, "Let me tell you about these Jews all right," and she's just the most vicious antisemite in the whole movie. But everywhere he goes, it's fine, but he explains though, the propaganda in Israel, how it's just Shoah this and Shoah that, that's the Holocaust. Shoah this and Shoah that about everything, always. It's a Shoah furniture sale, it's this Shoah dance party, it's the Shoah everything, always. And it's just, um, and you'll hear this reflected sometimes, you'll hear Jews say that like, they know that everyone in the world just wants to kill them. That was, that was the point in "Defamation," the way that he, he explains it, was that that's the overall message, is that everyone in the world who's not Jewish, they only

• 38:36Speaker 02

  wake up in the morning for one reason, is to try to find an opportunity to do another Holocaust. That's the only reason that they even, you know, have breakfast, or, or make babies, or do anything, is so that one day- They can get the chance again. And so like, that's very powerful propaganda if you're dumb enough to believe it.

• 38:55Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 38:55Speaker 02

  And be subjected to it, you know what I mean? And be corralled into.

• 38:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Relying on the Likud to protect you then, you know?

• 39:02Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 39:03Speaker 02

  In fact, one more thing on that.

• 39:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 39:05Speaker 02

  Right around the time that Ariel Sharon was destroying the last chance of the peace process in the year 2000, when he went to the Temple Mount and caused the outbreak of the Second Intifada. There was a poll that said that the people of Israel wanted a two-state solution, the so-called land for peace and let the Palestinians have the West Bank and Gaza Strip. But if they can't have that, and it's going to be Intifada, then they want Ariel Sharon, because he's a tough son of a bitch and he'll protect them. But he's the one who went and took his troops to the Temple Mount and set off the Intifada in the first place.

• 39:39Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  Right? So they said, no, we still want to do the Rabin plan. But if we can't get that, then yes, we want a tough guy.

• 39:47Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 39:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:49Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 39:50Speaker 02

  Now, that sentiment's a long time gone, but that's how it was then.

• 39:52Danny Jones?

  Right, right. And there's also that whole conspiracy of how, I don't know how much of a conspiracy it is, but it's an interesting idea or theory that they want to purposely get all this stuff out there to stoke antisemitism, to get the diaspora to move back to Israel for this whole crazy in-time prophecy stuff that's coming out, like they want to bring back the Messiah.

• 40:15Speaker 02

  There was a terrorist attack in France, in the Obama years, late Obama years. Remember when they hit Nice and Paris? They did the Charlie Hebdo attack massacre and the Eagles' death metal concert and all of the ISIS and AQI, AQAP attacks? And, um, ah, crap, what was I gonna say? Oh, and then Netanyahu came to France and he goes, and this is like the most objectionable thing. He comes to France and he goes, that's right, French Jews, you're not French, you're Jews. Come home to Israel. You'll never be safe here, you'll never be accepted here. Like, these are people whose families have lived in France for hundreds of years.

• 40:51Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 40:51Speaker 02

  You know, and he's like, that's right, you can't be Jewish and French. It's gotta be one or the other, you're Jews, come with me and all that. And then he doesn't care at all. He probably thinks it's funny that he's maybe even putting them in danger in in the most general sense, right? It's not a direct incitement to violence against them, but he's telling the the prime minister of Israel is announcing to the people of France that yeah, the French Jews among you, they're not really French like you, you know, ultimately, they're all deep cover working for me is essentially the message he's sending, which is a total lie. It's a despicable lie, you know, it's just like when they say the same thing about American Jews too, but American Jews aren't the Israeli diaspora. American

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Jews have lived here for 120 years, right? They all moved here from Germany and Poland and Russian, whatever, dude, from France.

• 41:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah, no, I mean, all of my Jew, if I asked 10 of my Jewish friends if they would be interested in moving to Israel, they'd be like, fuck, no.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  Why would they? A lot of them, they're Americans. They've never even heard of Israel. Israel's just a word in a Christmas song. What who's who knows anything about that?

• 41:58Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  It makes me wonder who wrote that Christmas song.

• 42:00Danny Jones?

  What is this, Steve? Israel, welcome your European Jews with open arms? What is this? Some recent article?

• 42:08Speaker 02

  Oh, this is, yeah, in reference to what I was just saying.

• 42:10Danny Jones?

  Oh, this is the 11 year old.

• 42:11Speaker 02

  Him telling the French Jews that like, yeah, you'll never really fit in here. So come with me.

• 42:15Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Um, can you lay out this whole, the whole Wolfowitz doctrine thing? And how there was this plan to invade X amount of countries? I had, I've had John Kariaku explain this to me. And I think he was actually working in the CIA when this, they were explaining this to him and he thought it was crazy. But um, I think you got a great way of explaining this whole thing and how it like basically like foreshadowed everything that's happened.

• 42:39Speaker 02

  Yes. Okay, so at the end of Iraq war one, Desert Storm, the first Gulf War, they call it, Paul Wolfowitz was the Deputy Secretary of Defense for Policy under Dick Cheney. And then beneath him were Zomay Khalilzad and Scooter Libby, all three of these guys from the, you know, core of the neocon movement. And they wrote a study that was, or not a study, but a memorandum. It's called the Defense Plan and Guidance for 1994, for fiscal year 1994. That's the title, if you're looking for it. The original version was leaked and became a scandal. They put it in the New York Times and became a little scandal. So they rewrote it, but it says the same thing again. It just has a couple of stops to multilateralism.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  We'll have our European allies help us and whatever. But basically, it's the same thing again. And what it says is that America will be the dominant political and military power on the planet Earth from now on. We're going to take what Charles Krauthammer, another important neoconservative, called the unipolar moment. We're going to seize that moment and in that moment, we're going to build this new order, where America is the dominant power in Europe, in Eurasia, in East Asia, and to the point where, I forget exactly how they say, but essentially where no other power or even group of powers would consider attempting to challenge our power, right?

• 44:06Speaker 02

  Where we'd be so far ahead militarily and financially and the rest that Russia and China and Europe wouldn't even think that if they combined that they could challenge us, so they just wouldn't even bother. Because we're going to go ahead and spread our influence, seize, you know, the dominance that we can. Now, of course, it's not a perfect one-to-one correlation, but you'll find that there's a lot of overlap between what the neocons are doing and what they think is good for Israel. So if you're talking about their plans to expand American dominance into Eastern Europe, that's not so much about Israel. But the same guys are saying, and we really need to expand our footprint in the Middle East, and that, you know, you could, they would spin that as purely an American, you

• 44:51Speaker 02

  know, philosophy or, or, you know, doctrine. But clearly, you know, these guys are very close to the Israelis and, and share their interests. And probably in many cases, especially back then, maybe they would even argue that there's just no difference between Israel's interests and ours. So it's not really undermining America to do what Israel wants, because we're just getting ahead of the curve is all, you know? They, they help identify future enemies to come, like, you know, their problems with Hamas and Hezbollah, that's who we should fight, you know, that kind of thing. So. That is, you know, the doctrine behind the expansion into Eastern Europe that ended up leading to the war in Ukraine. And then that's also the same doctrine that ultimately

• 45:33Speaker 02

  led to the expansion of American power in the Middle East as well. Now, these things get a little bit conflated together and mostly properly. But, so Wolfowitz had told Wesley Clark, and he said this in a debate with me on the Pierce Morgan Show, and I had heard him say this before, previously, I believe, that he had had, and that's, sorry, for those not familiar, he's an Army General, four-star general, the former commander, Supreme Allied Commander of NATO Forces in Europe under Bill Clinton. He did the Serbia War of 1999 for Bill Clinton, four-star general.

• 46:14Danny Jones?

  It's still going on, Pierce Morgan, today. That's wild.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know. So, he, he said that Wolfowitz had told him in a conversation back in 1991, that now we gotta go to the Middle East and clean up and take out all these former Soviet client states, right, the Syrians and the Iraqis especially, and that we have this window of opportunity to do this. And that was the way he put it. But then he also, when we talked about the Clean Break, which is a strategy document that was written by a couple of other neocons, but are very close to Wolfowitz, anyway, is a pretty small group of guys, is Richard Pearl and David Wormser was the principal author of the thing. And he worked for Pearl, and then Douglas Feith and Charles Fairbanks III and a couple others signed on to it, maybe

• 47:02Speaker 02

  just one more. And this was a plan that they wrote for Netanyahu in 1996.

• 47:08Danny Jones?

  The Clean Break?

• 47:09Speaker 02

  This is, yeah. And this is when he's incoming to be Prime Minister of Israel for the first time. And it's an article about how...

• 47:18Speaker 02

  They thought, quite stupidly, that it would be smart to get rid of Saddam Hussein in Iraq, because then that would give Jordan and Turkey dominance in Iraq, and then that would separate Iran and Syria, Iran from Syria and Iran from Hezbollah, and that they would take control of the Shiite religious clerics in Iraq and make Hezbollah stop being enemies with Israel and start being friends and build a pipeline to Haifa and all this crap. It's completely stupid, but they believed it. And so, but then it was, and then comes Wesley Clark, again in 2001, in the fall of 01, I believe it's in October, November of 01,

• 47:59Speaker 02

  so within two months after September 11. He goes to the Pentagon, so he's retired by this point, but he's got clearance and all that, so he's still going up there. So he goes to the Pentagon, and he doesn't say the name of the guy, I think it's a military officer, says, "Sir, you know, you should know that," they're talking about, "we're gonna attack Iraq." And he says, "Iraq? Why?" Because he knows that Saddam in front with Osama, Saddam's terrified of Osama, right? What are you talking about? Why would we hit Iraq? And the guy says, "I don't know." And then he comes back a couple of weeks later, and the same guy says, "Hey, there's this memo, and it says that they want to hit seven

• 48:38Speaker 02

  countries in five years." And then he ticks them off. So it's Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Iran. And this is the Likud's hit list. In that order? Yeah. This is the Likud's hit list, pretty sure. And when they say Lebanon, they meant Hezbollah. I don't know if they really want to do, well, hell, they're bombing the crap out of Beirut today, so maybe, maybe so. But I always took that to just mean a war against Hezbollah in southern Lebanon, which is sort of the mini-state of the Shiites in southern Lebanon. But anyway, so this is, you know, essentially Israel's marching orders, and this is coming from the Office of the Secretary of Defense, which is staffed by Donald Rumsfeld and his Deputy Secretary of Defense, Paul Wolfowitz.

• 49:24Speaker 02

  And then under him is Douglas Feith, the decade in his old spot as Deputy Secretary of Defense for Policy. He's got Steven Cambone, another neocon, as Deputy Secretary of Defense for Intelligence. You got on the Defense Policy Board, Richard Pearl, Wormser's boss, and or previous boss, and Gene Kirkpatrick, and James Woolsey, and Ken Adelman, and all these neocons. Under Douglas Feith, you have then Abram Sholsky, Michael Malouf, and Michael Makovsky, Michael Rubin, lots of Michaels, Michael Ledeen.

• 49:54Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  Now, all these guys working for Abram Sholsky in what became called the Office of Special Plans, the Expanded Iraq Desk, and these were the guys who lied us into war with Iraq. This was the neoconservative network that lied us into war. And it's, you know, we kind of already knew this, but we got it from Wesley Clark, that, yeah, that seven countries thing is the modern iteration, or was then the modern iteration of the Clean Break, which was sort of a another iteration of that original Defense Planning Guidance and the Wolfowitz Doctrine in the beginning, that what we want to do is go after the last of the states that stand in our way. And as I, maybe that's oversimplifying, I should have, I guess, said, you know, along in the spirit of the Defense Planning Guidance,

• 50:39Speaker 02

  but closer to what Wolfowitz had personally told Clark back then, which was, we want to clean up all the last of these states. Wolfowitz famously wanted to go all the way to Baghdad in the first Iraq War. That was a huge mistake to leave Saddam Hussein in power. We should go all the way to Baghdad. He was the leader of that parade back then. So that's, and then Wesley Clark is confirming that, yes, this is essentially the same neoconservative doctrine. So then what do we have? We have a cross between the Likud and Lockheed taking us to war. Essentially, that's the neoconservative movement.

• 51:09Danny Jones?

  And what was the story with that dude Chalabi? I know he was a big part of this.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  Yes. So Chalabi was, first and foremost, he's the guy that convinced David Wormser of all this bullshit.

• 51:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 51:20Speaker 02

  About how this was supposed to work.

• 51:22Danny Jones?

  And this guy was like a two-bit con man or something.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Totally. Yeah. There's a great article by Bob Dreyfus called, Tinker, Banker, Neocon Spy.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  And so he was an Iraqi Shiite exile who then had been a banker in Jordan, but had been convicted in absentia from embezzling millions of dollars from his own bank. Then he worked for the CIA in the 1990s, trying to foment a coup in 1995, which failed. This is where the famous CIA officer Bob Baer got burned by him in that whole thing.

• 51:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 51:55Speaker 02

  Kind of complicated mess in the failed coup of 95. And then I believe, I'm not sure if he was involved in the failed coup of 96. It was like, I think it was a failed uprising of 95 and then a failed coup of 96. But I don't think he was involved in the coup. But anyway, neither of those worked. But so that was how he got his burn notice from the CIA that we don't like this guy anymore. You know, but so then he went to work for the neocons. And there was another Iraqi exile and actual ex-Trust guy himself named, I forgot his first name. I want to say like Hadnan or something like that. Makiya was his last name. And these were like these two Iraqi exiles who were going around telling everybody that like, all we got to do is get rid of Saddam and peace is going to break out.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  It's going to be perfect, you know? And then, so one, and this is in, so A Clean Break has a companion piece called Coping With Crumbling States. A balance of power of strategy for the Levant, also by Wormser. And you can find both of those on my website, scotthorton.org. A Clean Break and Coping With Crumbling States. And then they did a monograph by Wormser with a foreword by Pearl called Tyranny's Ally. America's failure to remove Saddam Hussein, demanding that America, you know, do the Clean Break, Forward and Yahoo, essentially. And I don't think Chalabi's name is in the first one, but coping is really just a longer version of Clean Break kind of anyway, or, you know, to a great degree, it's a companion piece to it.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  And Chalabi's in there two or three times and he's in the book Tyranny's Ally four or five times, I think.

• 53:30Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 53:30Speaker 02

  And what Wormser is saying is, don't worry. This Iraqi exile that we know, Ahmed Chalabi assures us that this is how it works. Right? And so, and well, what the hell? We're spending the time on it. This was the idiot Rube Goldberg scheme, okay? Picture the Middle East here, right? You got Iran, you got Iraq, you got Jordan, Syria and Lebanon here and Israel here, right? So.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  The Israelis, because this is written, the clean break is written for Netanyahu when he's becoming prime minister the first time in 96. And what they're saying is, forget land for peace and the Labour Party's, you know, Oslo peace process. We're throwing that in the trash. We're gonna have peace through strength and total dominance over our neighbors. And that's it. And so, but our biggest threat is Hezbollah on our northern border. Because they already had their peace deal with Egypt. And they had already signed their peace deal with Jordan in 1994. So, our biggest threat is Hezbollah on our northern border. And they're backed by Syria, which is a Baathist country, Baathist regime, Baathist government, led by the Alawites, which is sort of a break off sect of the Shiites, but

• 54:42Speaker 02

  is close to the Shiites and is allied with Iran.

• 54:44Danny Jones?

  And Shiites, sorry, are you gonna get a lot of dumb questions?

• 54:49Speaker 02

  No, no, that's a good question.

• 54:50Danny Jones?

  Shiites is the same as Iran, Iranians or Shiites?

• 54:53Speaker 02

  Yes, Iranians or the Shiites. So, their 79 revolution was a Shiite fundamentalist revolution and their supreme leader, the Ayatollah Khomeini, and then Khomeini, these guys are Shiite religious authorities.

• 55:06Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 55:07Speaker 02

  And also political, you know, rulers there. So, they're friends with the Shiites in Syria, and they back the government there. They have an alliance with the government in Syria. And then they use Syria to arm Hezbollah with rockets and missiles that then they can hit Israel with.

• 55:23Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  So how's Israel supposed to steal the last of Palestine if Hezbollah's gonna constantly be firing rockets at them every time they make major advances against the Palestinians? So what we need to do is, we gotta neutralize the threat of Hezbollah. And then this idiot, David Wormser, says, so what we want to do is, we want to focus on getting rid of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. Even though Saddam Hussein is a secular Sunni, he's a Baathist like Assad in Damascus, but they're enemies, they hate each other, and he's a Sunni, sitting on a super majority Shiite Arab population.

• 56:00Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 56:01Speaker 02

  So picture Iraq now, stuck between the Levant and Iran.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  From Baghdad, more or less in the center of Iraq, let's say, from Baghdad all the way to Iran and down to Kuwait, that's all super duper Shiite majority territory, right? Like predominantly Shiite territory, all the way to Iran.

• 56:23Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 56:24Speaker 02

  So Saddam is really the roadblock preventing Shiite power from connecting from Iran through southern Iraq to Syria and to Hezbollah.

• 56:35Danny Jones?

  Because he didn't fuck with those guys.

• 56:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, he hated them. He just bought, America supported Saddam Hussein for eight years in a war against Iran to contain the Iranian revolution, all through the 1980s.

• 56:46Danny Jones?

  Oh shit.

• 56:46Speaker 02

  Now David Wormser is saying, and this is why I call it like a Rube Goldberg machine, if you ever played like that game, the board game Mousetrap, when you were in elementary school or whatever, is like a Rube Goldberg contraption, where it has 100 moving parts just to drop the thing on the mouse? So, but what's supposed to happen here is that, once we get rid of Saddam, then we'll put in the cousin of the King of Jordan, and because he is a Hashemite, which means Sunni Kingdom from Saudi Arabia, that the British had put in power in Jordan back 100 years ago, but they claim to be descended from the Prophet Muhammad, and David Wormser says,

• 57:30Speaker 02

  "As long as we put a Hashemite king in power in Baghdad, as long as he claims, as long as he's a Hashemite and has the blood of the Prophet, then the Shiites will do whatever he says." "We are assured this by our good friend Ahmed Chalabi, the Iraqi exile, who promises us that this is how it works," right? "But this is not how it works, dude, okay?" So the Shiite leaders in Iraq and Iran and wherever, they do claim to be descended from the Prophet Muhammad and can even claim to trace their lineage back to him and all that. The Sunni Hashemite family also claims the blood of the Prophet, and they claim that they can trace it back. Maybe they can, I don't know, sure. But the point being is, that Shiites revere their own religious leaders.

• 58:17Speaker 02

  Who have the blood of the prophet or whatever, but that doesn't mean that they are hypnotized slaves and do whatever they're told, even by their Shiite religious leaders, much less Sunni kings from the Levans. Right. Who, they may claim to have the blood of the prophet, but that doesn't mean that they can boss these people around any more than I can boss you around. There's just no connection there. And in fact, when the British had installed a Hashemite king in Iraq, it lasted for like 20 years with, or 30 years with British power backing it from like the twenties through the fifties. But then it fell because the Shiites would not cooperate with it at all. And they even had a fatwa against, which is like a religious edict,

• 59:00Speaker 02

  against cooperating with the Sunni kingdom. So if David Wormser had known his history at all, he would know that no, putting a Hashemite in Baghdad is not going to be a magic spell. Right. Over the Shiite population there. But then he went further. Chalabi promises us that then the Hashemite king will be able to tell the religious leaders in Najaf, Iraq, which is in far southern Iraq, the Ayatollah Sistani and his guys, that we'll be able to tell them to tell Hezbollah to stop being friends with Iran and start being friends with Israel. And then we'll even build the oil, rebuild the old British oil pipeline from Mosul and Kirkuk to Haifa. And the new Shiite Iraq, under the enslavement of the

• 59:43Speaker 02

  Sunni king, will then be best friends with Israel and, and Turkey and Jordan, America's friends, and will be this giant block on Iranian power. So this is completely stupid and wrong. By the time they did the war, the cousin of the king of Jordan, I don't know what happened to him, but the king died and his son became king. I guess I need to go and study up what happened to the cousin. But they dropped the idea that they would put the king's cousin in there. There were times where they even floated making the king of Jordan, the king of both somehow, or whatever. But they never did any of that. And they ended up, by the time of 2002, as I'm sure you may know, the idea was, well, we're just put Chalabi in there. The same guy who told, that made all these promises

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  to us, we'll just make him the guy. And then he'll tell all the Shiites what to do. And they'll build a oil pipeline to Haifa. Oh my God. So this was the thinking, the absolute idiot thinking behind Iraq War II.

• 1:00:42Speaker 02

  So there are, and I know that this is true, and it's, it's really a shame that there are, you know, maybe a million guys or something, right? Because there were so many guys that rotated in and out of Iraq. I forgot the total. It may have been a million guys fought in that war overall. You know, something like that, high hundreds of thousands of guys. And there are a lot of guys who fought in that war that still had no idea what that war was even about. Who was shooting at them and why and what? What had happened was, America took the Shiite side in a civil war, and we put Iran's best friends in power there. Not our best friends. Ahmed Chalabi got a job at the oil ministry or whatever, but he wasn't in charge.

• 1:01:22Speaker 02

  And then if you look at the guys that were the prime ministers while we were in power there, after, once they wrote the constitution and held their purple finger elections and all that, it was Ibrahim Jafari and Nuri Al Malik for the rest of the time of W. Bush. These were guys from the Daba Party, supported by Iran. And in fact, there was, what happened was, Chalabi was caught leaking to the Iranians that the Americans had broken his, broken their codes. And then, so they launched a counterintelligence investigation into Chalabi and his friends at the Pentagon. And the DIA and CIA both leaked to the papers that they thought that Chalabi didn't just leak to Iran that we had broken their codes.

• 1:02:04Speaker 02

  Chalabi had been sent by Iran to lie to these Israel-first traitors and convince them that a war against Saddam Hussein would be good for Israel just to get us to do that dirty work for them. And How did this come out? So, I mean, they put it in The Guardian. You should be able to find it. DIA, so there, there, there are plenty of stories about they're investigating him for the leak. But then they went further and they go, I think it was CIA and DIA both say, we think, because remember, the CIA had already put a burn notice on this guy. They didn't like him. He was working for the Pentagon neocons.

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  And so maybe they were just blaming him, but they were saying that it was Iran. There you go. They were saying, and look, they, it's true, dude. They had Iraqi National Congress headquarters was in Tehran. And in fact, as long as we're at this, dude, go ahead and I'll give my disclaimer while you type it up.

• 1:03:03Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  Go to salon.com and it, the article is called how Ahmed Chalabi conned the neo cons.

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  And you gotta forgive me because look salon.com is the wokest, gayest, stupidest damn website in the whole world. Everybody knows that. I, and so please forgive me, but listen, the guy that wrote this article is.

• 1:03:26Danny Jones?

  Just Google it, dude. Just go to, go to how Chalabi conned the neo cons and then, and then, no, no, on Google. And then type in salon after that.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:36Danny Jones?

  It'll come up.

• 1:03:37Speaker 02

  There you go. So look, this is by John Dizard and John Dizard is a serious journalist from the Financial Times. I am barely acquainted with the guy, but I know him and he's not some woke commie kook from salon like you would think of. This article is from 2004 and back then salon actually published journalism from time to time. So sue me. Okay. I'm sorry. God damn it. I wish this article was at the Financial Times website. We wouldn't have to do this, but look, this article is freaking hilarious and it had, it's all about how he was just lying to them, dude, and they're stupid. And if you forgive me, okay, I'm going to get us all in trouble here. Do Ctrl F Jews.

• 1:04:21Speaker 02

  Okay. So here, here's Mark Zell. Mark Zell was friends with, um, Mark Zell was a law partner with Douglas Fith, representing settlers on the West Bank.

• 1:04:34Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:04:35Speaker 02

  So here, um, oh, no, no, I'm sorry. Um, this is the wrong one, but this is even better.

• 1:04:40Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:04:41Speaker 02

  This is a guy, wrong anecdote from the same article. This is a guy who was friends with Ahmed Chalabi from this investment group in Jordan.

• 1:04:50Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:04:50Speaker 02

  And he said, he asked him, hey, man, what are you doing hanging around doing business with all these Zionists? So now I am quoting Dizard quoting Mo Assad quoting Chalabi. Okay. So nobody, you know, Lynch, our friend Danny here, it's not his fault.

• 1:05:10Speaker 02

  He told me not to worry. He just needed the Jews in order to get what he wanted from Washington and that he would turn on them after that.

• 1:05:17Danny Jones?

  Oh my God.

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  Right? And then, so now if you just do Zell, Z E L L, and you'll see where Mark Zell is, you know, pounding the table and saying, uh, Cholubee is a treacherous spineless turncoat.

• 1:05:35Danny Jones?

  Well, it's in there eight out of ten times.

• 1:05:37Speaker 02

  Page up and down a little bit.

• 1:05:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:38Speaker 02

  Um, he's a treacherous traitorous turncoat. See, he said that he would build a pipeline to Haifa. And he promised that. He promised a lot of things. He promised a treaty with Iraq.

• 1:05:52Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  This is, and you could still follow Mark Zell on Twitter to this day. He's a riot, dude, and he's a total, you know, Likudnik kook. Like I say, he was law partners with Douglas Feith, who was the head of the Office of Special Plans and who signed on to the clean break. And here he is. One of these quotes is, well, he used to have one set of friends and now he has another one. He's a treacherous traitorous turncoat, whatever. So there you go. So,

• 1:06:19Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:06:20Speaker 02

  So the neo cons are as stupid as they are evil. And what's hilarious about this actually is that this big fat dork, David Wormser, who thinks that he could pick a fight with me and win it, which is just, okay, I picked the fight. But he thinks, he thinks he can resist at all. It's hilarious. Um, this idiot, David Wormser, did this interview with, um, uh, like a born again Christian podcaster guy, uh, where they were reviewing Tucker's nine 11, uh, thing. I forgot what it was called.

• 1:06:49Danny Jones?

  His nine 11 documentary?

• 1:06:49Speaker 02

  Yes, nine 11 documentary. And, um, so they're critiquing it and they make some actually interesting points, but a couple of things about it. The first thing is he confirms everything that I say about who's who and the divides inside the, uh, Bush administration at that time. He's disputing what I think is, he's kind of taking Tucker out of context and then disputing him. But in doing so, he confirms everything that I say about what was going on there and all that. But then he also continues to sputter this idiocy about how no see the Shiites have to do whatever the Hashemites tell them because they have the blood of a prophet. But as Dave Smith pointed out, if that's true, why don't you just pick up the phone and have the king of Jordan call the Ayatollah and call the leader

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  of Hezbollah and tell him to knock it off? Why do you gotta have a regime change in Baghdad first? Right. Why don't you just call the Ayatollah Sistani? Mm-hmm. And say, "Hey, Ayatollah Sistani, tell Hezbollah to make nice with the Likud.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  Do your magic spell, hypnotize him." Doesn't work. This is completely stupid. And here, he recorded this interview, I think, late last year, the year 2025, after America just handed Iran, handed Iraq over to Iran, over to their very best friends. Right. After his entire war played out exactly the opposite of what he said. He says, "In coping with crumbling states, a free Iraq will be a nightmare for Iran." No, dude, you just got rid of Saddam for Iran. You big dummy. You put the Dalai Party and the Supreme Islamic Council in power there. And then he stayed. He worked for Dick Cheney, I think, into the second term.

• 1:08:33Speaker 02

  And he still doesn't remember the war that way? He thinks he won?

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  Does he, at what point did the Ayatollah Sistani call the Ayatollah Khamenei and Hassan Nasrallah and tell them to knock it off and start making nice with the West and with the Israelis? Because I don't remember that happening this whole time. Right. Why can't they do that right now, then? There's nothing but a sock puppet. Is the king of Jordan even a human man? He's a sock puppet wrapped in cellophane, packaged, delivered, owned, controlled, straight out of Langley, Virginia, with no will of his own whatsoever. David, pick up the phone, call the king of Jordan, and tell the king of Jordan to tell the Iranians to open the strait, pal. Tell him to use his magical hypnosis powers with his magical bloodline.

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  It doesn't work. And yet, this idiot still thinks he was right about Iraq War II. That's crazy. After all this time. And I like picking on it because everyone always blames Richard Pearl. And Richard Pearl was the lead gangster here. But Wormser is the egghead. Wormser was the academic who told Richard Pearl, "Yeah."

• 1:09:40Speaker 02

  This stuff Chalabi told me checks out or whatever, you know?

• 1:09:43Danny Jones?

  Jesus.

• 1:09:44Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:09:44Danny Jones?

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• 1:10:27Danny Jones?

  They're metal utensil safe, dishwasher safe, and oven safe up to 900 degrees. And the handle stays cool. With over 1 million customers and 50,000 five-star reviews, it's not a secret why Gordon Ramsay uses HexClad at home and in his restaurants. They come with a lifetime warranty, so this is literally the last cookware you will ever need to buy. Don't go through another summer with cookware that makes every meal harder than it needs to be. For a limited time only, our listeners get 10% off your order with our exclusive link. Head to hexclad.com/danny. Support the show and check them out at H E X C L A D dot com forward slash Danny. And make sure to let them know we sent you. Yeah, Tucker's 9/11 documentary was wild.

• 1:11:08Danny Jones?

  One of the things that's interesting is I actually know one of the dudes who was former FBI, who worked, was stationed at the same FBI office that those dancing Israelis were taken to.

• 1:11:21Speaker 02

  Oh, is that right? And told you the story of them being booked and everything?

• 1:11:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:24Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 1:11:25Danny Jones?

  Crazy. They were Mossad, I think, right?

• 1:11:27Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. The high fivers, just what Ramona called them.

• 1:11:30Danny Jones?

  There was a woman that was in her apartment or whatever, who saw all these guys on top of a parking garage filming the whole thing happen and like dancing and high fiving and shit. And then she called, she called the cops.

• 1:11:38Speaker 02

  Well, the dancing part, I think, was actually invented by

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  Ayman al-Zawahiri's brother in Egypt, I think.

• 1:11:46Danny Jones?

  Oh, was it?

• 1:11:46Speaker 02

  The dancing Israelis.

• 1:11:48Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:11:48Speaker 02

  The high fivers, I think, was Justin called them. That was the reporting in ABC and I believe in Washington Post that they were happy to see the towers hit.

• 1:11:57Danny Jones?

  Now, what the fuck were the Mossad agents doing filming that?

• 1:12:00Speaker 02

  Okay, so there's two ways of looking at it. And they're There's at least one witness and maybe even two that say that they were there at like eight in the morning. Now, I'd like to ask follow-up questions in front of the grand jury, please, that like, wait a minute, are you sure they were there before the first plane hit?

• 1:12:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:12:17Speaker 02

  Or not, or what, right?

• 1:12:18Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:12:19Speaker 02

  Because if they were working there the day before, which I believe their alibis, they were working there the day before, and then when they heard about the attack, or even saw it, you know, from their drive, they pulled over because they knew they would have a good view, because they could see the towers there from the time they were there the day before. So even when the guy says on Israeli TV that we were there to document the event, he doesn't explicitly say, "We were there, starting at eight, camped out, waiting for the first plane to hit, to document the entire thing," right? Like, it could just be the, the missing part of that sentence is, "We heard about it on the radio, so we pulled over to document the event." A lot of people pulled out cameras to document the event, right?

• 1:12:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:57Speaker 02

  So like, if they, if we know for a fact, which we don't, but there are two-

• 1:13:02Danny Jones?

  What were they actually, what were they actually doing? What was their, what was their cover?

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  I believe they were, well, they were movers. It was urban moving-

• 1:13:07Danny Jones?

  They were actually moving shit that day.

• 1:13:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then-

• 1:13:09Danny Jones?

  And they had video cameras, because there was no phone cameras back then, so they must have had an actual video camera with them.

• 1:13:14Speaker 02

  Or at least, they were taking still, I think still pictures, I'm not sure. I, I know there are stills, but they could be taken from the video, if there's video. But I know there are stills that, you know, ended up getting FOIA'd, where, you know, they're there. I forget now in the pictures that were released, if you can actually see them holding up their lighters or not. I know that was the accusation, is that they're holding up their lighters, like they're the ones burning the tower down.

• 1:13:37Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:13:37Speaker 02

  You know, like, you know, kind of-

• 1:13:39Danny Jones?

  Can you find them, are they online?

• 1:13:41Speaker 02

  Like when somebody pretends to hold up the moon or whatever, you know what I mean, and they're like, "Move a little to the right, okay, right there," you know, this kind of thing. So, look, the idea is, let's, let's, well, you could go, like, the worst-case scenario is they were helping run this cell of Bin Ladenite terrorists and did this to us, right? I don't think you need to go that far. You know, another interpretation would be that they knew what was gonna happen, that they were tracking these guys, and then they didn't warn us everything that they knew, which that's what the FBI said, was that they had given a warning that, you know, "There are Bin Ladenites in your country, you better look out," and they had given us that warning in August, but nothing specific. When, you know, it's possible here, they knew a lot more than they had let on.

• 1:14:23Speaker 02

  And then the more benign take, the most benign take is that they saw that the towers were hit, they understood that these were kamikaze attacks that must have been by Arabs of some kind or another, and they thought it was absolutely hilarious.

• 1:14:37Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:14:37Speaker 02

  And they thought that this will be great for Israel, and they were laughing about it and celebrating because now America will do whatever Israel says now that we've been hit by the same kind of terrorism. When they got pulled over, that was what they told the cops, was we're not the problem, the Palestinians are the problem, and now you know what it's like to be us and whatever. So, it would make sense if they were just, like, that's, again, the most minimal explanation would be that they saw our worst day and thought, "Score!"

• 1:15:05Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:15:06Speaker 02

  Which is basically the same thing as Netanyahu himself. Oh, and by the way, thank you for reminding me of this anecdote. Um, so, you've probably heard, and your audience probably knows, there is a New York Times story dated September 12th, 2001, but it was published that night, of course, right? From that day. And their reporter, oh man, his name is on the tip of my tongue, too. Damn. I'm sorry.

• 1:15:32Danny Jones?

  What was the article called, do you remember?

• 1:15:35Speaker 02

  Um, no, but it's easy enough to find, because it's September 12th, 2001, and Netanyahu tells the New York Times reporter, he's asked the question, "What does this mean for America's relationship with Israel?", and Netanyahu says, "It's very good." And then he says, "Oh, well, or, um, you know what I mean, like, not this very good, but like, overall it'll help, you know, because your enemies and our enemies are the same kind of thing, you know what I mean?" He's sort of like, but that's, that's his original take. But now, what's important, there we go.

• 1:16:08Danny Jones?

  The Israelis spilled blood, the Israelis spilled blood is seen as a bond that draws two nations closer.

• 1:16:15Speaker 02

  Yes, and James.

• 1:16:17Danny Jones?

  There's a quote in here from Netanyahu?

• 1:16:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, there you go, it's very good.

• 1:16:21Danny Jones?

  Wow. "After what the attack meant for relations between the United States and Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, the former prime minister, replied, 'It's very good.'" Then he edited himself, "Well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy." He predicted that the attack would strengthen the bond between our two peoples, because we've experienced terror over so many decades, but the US has now experienced a massive hemorrhaging of terror.

• 1:16:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, so.

• 1:16:49Speaker 02

  And then Sharon says, I believe together we can defeat these forces of evil. But now here's what's funny, okay? This article is by reporting in James Bennett. And I had no idea about this. I only got this footnote from John Schwartz, a left-wing writer. Uh, no T in Schwartz there. Um, and no H in John, by the way, John Schwartz. And, um, he pointed out that James Bennett, that same reporter, he wrote an article 10 years later, September 11th, 2011. And he wrote this article for the Atlantic. And in this article for the Atlantic, he recounts this conversation with Benjamin Netanyahu.

• 1:17:34Speaker 02

  But he includes a line that got cut to the New York Times floor. But it's included in the Atlantic article. And right in this same conversation where Netanyahu is saying to him that it's very good, he also says,

• 1:17:51Speaker 02

  hmm, I wonder if the American people will blame us for this.

• 1:17:57Speaker 02

  Now, he's not talking about them secretly putting bombs in all the towers and a bunch of crap. It's that he knows good and well that this is the motive of Al Qaeda to attack America. That America supports Israel and their merciless violence against the Palestinians and the Lebanese. And so he just muses out loud to James Bennett, hmm, I wonder if the American people blame us for this? This is the night of September 11th. And then he says, nah, I'm sure they'll see that just, you know, we got a lot in common against our common enemy and whatever. But he brought that up because he knew good and damned well why they hate us. They hate us because Bill Clinton, at Israeli insistence,

• 1:18:41Speaker 02

  kept the bases in Saudi to bomb Iraq for the entire end of the 20th century there. They hate us because we provide the F-16s and the M-16s that the Israeli Defense Forces use to mercilessly slaughter Palestinians and Lebanese and steal their property. And that's what it was about. Those are the main reasons that Al Qaeda turned on the United States. Netanyahu is no fool on that. And so he couldn't help himself. But they don't know. I wonder if the American people are gonna blame us and like, we're gonna actually not benefit from this. We could lose from this. If the American people, you know, are wise enough, if their president would tell them the truth about what just happened here and why. And so saying, well, they hate us because we love our mama.

• 1:19:26Danny Jones?

  Didn't Bin Laden make, articulate this in his manifesto? Or whatever to the American people or something like this? This went viral on TikTok like a year or two ago.

• 1:19:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Now, here's the thing about that. Now it was from the letter to America, which was from 2002. And it included a bunch of like, single, white, liberal, female, TikTok mom type people. Saying, oh, I get it. Bin Laden's a hero or whatever, which was not right at all. Right? Not that he was even anywhere near justified in attacking civilian targets. It's completely crazy and stupid, but then that became the narrative, right? It was like, these, these people are taking Bin Laden's side. Well, just forget that. Go back to 1996. His first declaration of war against the United States was in 1996.

• 1:20:20Speaker 02

  And it's called the Declaration of War Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places. That is, Bill Clinton's military is stationed in Saudi Arabia to bomb and blockade Iraq. Is the title of the damn thing. And then on the first page, he goes on and on about the Khanah massacre. We now call it the first Khanah massacre because they did it again in 2006 and then they did it again this year. In 2026. Anyway, in 1996, the first Khanah massacre, get this. It was Naftali Bennett, the once and almost certainly future Prime Minister of Israel, was the artillery officer who called in an artillery strike on a UN shelter

• 1:21:02Speaker 02

  and killed 106 women and children. And Bin Laden ranted all about that on the first page.

• 1:21:09Danny Jones?

  Where was this again?

• 1:21:10Speaker 02

  In Khanah, Lebanon.

• 1:21:11Danny Jones?

  Lebanon, okay.

• 1:21:13Speaker 02

  And this is where Jesus walked on water, they say. Just to tie it into, you know, things people know of.

• 1:21:21Speaker 02

  So Bin Laden ranted all about this in his first declaration of war against the United States. He said, "We'll never forget the severed heads and arms and legs of the babies and the children in Kana." Well, that was what inspired Mohammed Atta and his friend Ramsay bin Alshib to join Al Qaeda. Mohammed Atta then was the lead hijacker on September 11th. And he joined Al Qaeda because of Bin Laden's propaganda about American support for Israel. So, catch up now. Stay with me. You got an Egyptian engineering student studying in Hamburg, Germany, goes to Afghanistan to volunteer for Saudi sheik

• 1:21:59Danny Jones?

  Atta

• 1:22:00Speaker 02

  to kill Americans as revenge for what Israel's doing in Lebanon. See, that's blowback. That's the consequences of American foreign policy. And of course, these are terrorists that America built up their entire network with Britain and Saudi Arabia to fight the war in Afghanistan, as well as in Bosnia, Kosovo, and Chechnya. In fact, as I show and provoked, 11 of the 19 hijackers had fought on Bill Clinton's side in Bosnia and Chechnya.

• 1:22:26Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:22:27Speaker 02

  11 of the 19. So even though they were attacking us all through the 1990s, America was still supporting them all through the 1990s, as long as they're killing Serbs and Russians. Just the same way we support them now, like in Syria, as long as they're killing Shiites. And so, so yeah, so then, and then he put out another declaration of war in 1998. It was, you know, briefer. And the point being, and there's a really great book about this. Well, my book, Enough Already, has all this in it. But

• 1:23:00Danny Jones?

  When did you publish this one?

• 1:23:02Speaker 02

  In 21.

• 1:23:03Danny Jones?

  21.

• 1:23:03Speaker 02

  That's all the terror wars from Jimmy Carter all the way through Trump 1 in there. But Michael Shorier, the former chief of the CIA's Bin Laden unit, made this point. Bin Laden, if you read, you know, all his collected writings and whatever, he would go on and on about all religious justifications.

• 1:23:27Speaker 02

  But justifications for taking revenge for real things that the American government was doing over there, right? So he was not, unlike in the propaganda, he was not saying they gotta get us because of the song "Baby It's Cold Outside," just shows what degenerates we all are and we got R-rated movies and girls can show their knees in public and whatever. Had nothing to do with that crap at all.

• 1:23:49Danny Jones?

  For our freedom, they hate us for our freedom.

• 1:23:51Speaker 02

  That's right. And, and now, you know, did they disapprove of American licentiousness and whatever on those terms? Sure. But is that the reason for their war against us? Absolutely not. And as Shoyar pointed out, after, you know, reviewing all of this Bin Ladenite propaganda throughout the 1990s, all of the recruitment shtick, the stuff that he used, the sloganeering that he used to recruit people to fight us, was all based on American policies, concrete, real actions that everybody knew was true, right? It wasn't even, he wasn't even saying, you know, "Operation this and that you've never heard of," right? He would say, "They're occupying the holy land of Saudi Arabia, birthplace of Mohammed

• 1:24:36Speaker 02

  and the religion of Islam, Mecca, Medina and all that," right? So they're occupying Saudi Arabia in order to bomb and blockade Iraq. Well, they're supporting Israel in Palestine and Lebanon. They're supporting dictatorships throughout the region to keep them compliant. They're putting pressure on them to overproduce oil and keep the oil prices artificially low to subsidize our economy at their expense. And, as they would claim, quite incorrectly, "We turn a blind eye to Russian, Chinese, Kazakh and Indian and other violence against Muslims." Supposedly such big humanitarians, but when Muslims are the victims, we don't say anything. And that wasn't really true.

• 1:25:18Speaker 02

  Bill Clinton backed them again in Bosnia and in Chechnya, although he did kind of stab them in the back in Bosnia, and I think they might have been a bit salty about that. But anyway, and they backed them against, they backed the Uyghurs against the Chinese during that time too, before September 11th in the 1990s. So, anyway, but it was these concrete reasons that he would cite.

• 1:25:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:25:39Speaker 02

  In order to get people to join him, right? If he was just complaining about our R rated movies, nobody's gonna kamikaze a New York Tower over that.

• 1:25:48Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:25:48Speaker 02

  The way he got Atta was he criticized American support for Israel killing kids.

• 1:25:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:25:55Speaker 02

  And Atta said, all right, I'll join that fight. Just exactly the same as Americans joined the fight once our towers got hit.

• 1:26:01Danny Jones?

  Right, exactly.

• 1:26:02Speaker 02

  We already had a massive standing army and somehow we got 50,000 new recruits anyway.

• 1:26:06Danny Jones?

  If some country started bombing elementary schools in the US, like, we would definitely do the same thing they're doing.

• 1:26:11Speaker 02

  American Muslims joined the army because their solidarity was with America.

• 1:26:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:26:18Speaker 02

  That was who they saw as the side that they were on in the fight. You know, just as where, you know, this Egyptian is volunteering for this Saudi to avenge Lebanese. It's all one kind of um over there, maybe it's not a United States, but it's the Muslim lands over there. So it's no different than a Californian being upset about what happens in New York, you know?

• 1:26:42Danny Jones?

  Right, right. It's, dude, the whole Middle East is just like this horn's nest. It's always, it's historically just been so hard for me to follow everything and all the moving parts and the little countries and regimes and religious fundamentalists that are fighting.

• 1:26:56Speaker 02

  That's why I wrote Enough Already.

• 1:26:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:57Speaker 02

  That's kind of where we started here about.

• 1:26:59Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 1:27:00Speaker 02

  Despite all my New World Order cookery from previous days, my, my real point was that I got used to building these timelines to explain all this stuff to myself and how each one of these interventions sort of set the stage for the next intervention. So we do a bloody coup in 1953 in Iran and we turn it from a constitutional monarchy into an iron-fisted dictatorship.

• 1:27:22Danny Jones?

  This is because they wanted to own their own oil, right?

• 1:27:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the Americans were worried that they were gonna start tilting toward the communists. They were allowing a communist party to run and things like that.

• 1:27:31Danny Jones?

  Let me ask you this.

• 1:27:32Speaker 02

  So then that, anyway, that just kicked off the chain of dominos that have been falling this whole time, really.

• 1:27:37Danny Jones?

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• 1:28:21Danny Jones?

  So nothing ever falls through the cracks. More than 90,000 businesses currently use this because it fits how modern teams actually work. Your money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free plus 20% off your first six months when you go to quo.com/danny. That's Q U O dot com slash Danny. I've been hearing reports, I've been hearing people talk about how, and I don't know how true this is. How the United States is still sending the Taliban $80 million a week or something like this? Have you heard this?

• 1:28:51Speaker 02

  I don't know the numbers, but yes, I'm sure they are sending them foreign aid in the name of, you know, feeding people and whatever.

• 1:28:57Danny Jones?

  So why, why, why are we sending the Taliban that much money every week?

• 1:29:01Speaker 02

  Oh, it's such a racket, man. All the NGOs, all of the humanitarian relief organizations and all of that. I'm sure there is a real need. It's a very poor country and they've been through a 20-year war and, you know. I don't know what economics the Taliban know, but it ain't much, you know? So like, are, are, are people in need over there? A lot. Wow. Every couple of weeks.

• 1:29:24Danny Jones?

  United States confirms 80 million every 10 to 14 days to Afghanistan.

• 1:29:29Speaker 02

  Amazing. And what's the date on that?

• 1:29:31Danny Jones?

  That's, that's just crazy.

• 1:29:33Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:29:34Danny Jones?

  So this is just like.

• 1:29:35Speaker 02

  And they can spend that on whatever they want, you know? It doesn't have to go to, and look, this is the story of that whole war.

• 1:29:40Danny Jones?

  For everything we've done or what?

• 1:29:43Speaker 02

  Nah, I, you know, it's in the name of humanitarianism. I'm, I'm virtually certain it'll all be in the name of food aid.

• 1:29:51Danny Jones?

  I read.

• 1:29:52Speaker 02

  Providing, you know, arming the, or providing the, the money for the groups that distribute the food aid and all that. It's just the same as any of these. And, and the whole war is like that too. It's a huge racket of distributing all the humanitarian goods and

• 1:30:06Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:30:06Speaker 02

  all the State Department flunkies and all the USAID flunkies and all of the attached NGOs

• 1:30:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:30:11Speaker 02

  and stuff. It's a huge industry.

• 1:30:13Danny Jones?

  I read something somewhere, um, that said the reason that we could be funding the Taliban all with all this money, it was to disrupt supply chains between the Middle East and China, or something like that, to like fund them to like sabotage supply to China. Does that make any sense to you?

• 1:30:34Speaker 02

  Nah, I'd have to know more specifically what they're referring to there.

• 1:30:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:30:37Speaker 02

  You know, I mean, um, I really don't know a lot about America's current relationship with the Taliban regime in Kabul. You know what I mean?

• 1:30:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:46Speaker 02

  Or, you know, how much of one there really is or not.

• 1:30:48Danny Jones?

  Let me ask you this. When you, like, when Trump was running for election on this previous election and, you know, he was beating the drums on being the solidify, solidifying his legacy of peace and no more wars and all this stuff. And with all of your knowledge and seeing the patterns of history with the United States and the people that are operating behind the scenes here, did you foresee how this would end up with this presidency so far?

• 1:31:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I never believed in Trump, man. You know, Ron Paul is the hero we needed. Trump is the hero we deserved. And he, um, look, he's Rudy Giuliani. That's what he is. That's who he is. Right? He's, so, um.

• 1:31:37Speaker 02

  You know, if there's a charm in him, it's that he'll abruptly tell the truth about, you know, horrible things, but like.

• 1:31:43Danny Jones?

  Right. Like the Mary Madelson thing.

• 1:31:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, like I have, I think it's in enough already. You know, I begin each chapter with a series of quotes, notable quotables. And I think it's at the, toward the end there, I have Trump saying, oh, the military industrial complex, they are so corrupt and evil. They own this town. And then the other one is like, oh, the military industrial complex, they love war. And you know why? Cause they love money and right. Like this is, he goes 10 times harder than Ike Eisenhower, right? The way he says it. And then the third quote is, we love Lockheed and Raytheon and Boeing, and we want them to be strong. And we want to make sure that they, he's just Giuliani, man. He can pretend to be an America first.

• 1:32:27Speaker 02

  But you know, even the phrase, America first, that really was sabotaged. There's a horrible evil, uh, maybe Israeli spy, New York Times reporter named David Sanger, who's been on the Iran beat for many years. And Sanger interviewed Trump in 2016. It may have been 2015. And he says, so, um, your policy, you know, in regards to, to Europe and Asia and whatever, would you say that you're America first? And Trump goes, oh, yeah, I like the sound of that. Well, what's going on there? See, is that Sanger was trying to

• 1:33:09Speaker 02

  trap him because America first was the America first committee. And that was the slogan of the America first committee, the people that wanted to keep us out of the second world war until they disall, uh, disbanded after Pearl Harbor. And so, um, the connotation there is supposed to be horrible anti Semitic cooties because everyone knows that the real story of World War II is we should have invaded Germany in 1935. And anyone who was against joining that war loved Hitler and especially that horrible, horrible American hero, Charles Lindbergh, the first guy to fly across the Atlantic. And got his baby stolen and all that. Well, you're supposed to hate him because he used the J word like three times in the run up to Iraq, uh, to World War II.

• 1:33:55Speaker 02

  And so he's supposed to be radioactive, toxic AIDS. And if, and if you get the Charles Lindbergh name anywhere near you, if you get America first anywhere near you, then everyone's going to know that you're a right wing, anti Semitic reactionary, terrible, terrible person. And so that was why David Sanger suggested that to Trump is he was trying to hang it around his neck like a millstone. Except here's the problem. Americans have never heard of Charles Lindbergh, not even the heroic aviator, or the guy who got his baby stolen, much less that he one time gave a speech where he used the J word. When he was oversimplifying who was trying to get us into the war in Europe. And he should have been more specific.

• 1:34:36Speaker 02

  Well, so the American people didn't know that they were supposed to hate Trump for saying America first. Instead, they just heard America first. And they were like, well, this is America and we're Americans. What are we supposed to be? England first? China first? Israel instead? Or yeah, America first. Sounds right. So it made a good slogan, but point being then that Sanger's a horrible guy, but also that Trump, when he used that phrase, he was not calling back to the guys who wanted to keep us out of the European war. He was not calling back to the America first committee, or Charles Lindbergh, or Joe Kennedy, or anybody else involved in that who was trying to keep us out of war. He was just saying, America first, which if you come to think of it,

• 1:35:22Speaker 02

  if those words don't really have a context or mean anything, then George W. Bush can be America first. Cause America first just means I'm a stupid selfish jerk and I can do what I want and no one can stop me. Right? When America first meant defend America first. It meant France is not America's eastern frontier, nor is Ukraine. Defend America first. Leave the world the hell alone. Not.

• 1:35:52Speaker 02

  Go out and mug an old lady because you can do what you want and no one can stop you. Help the Israelis, you know, genocide a population off the face of the earth because they want to steal their property.

• 1:36:03Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:36:04Speaker 02

  You know, and so, but it's a little too vague, ain't it? America first. It needed to always be like Garrett Garrett's book, defend America first and leave the rest of the world a hell alone. That's the, what that is supposed to mean. But see, Trump never meant that. He only got it from Sanger who was trying to sabotage him.

• 1:36:23Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:36:24Speaker 02

  Trump never read Raimondo. Trump never read nothing.

• 1:36:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:36:27Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:36:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:36:29Speaker 02

  So there was, so yes, so I saw right through him. He's nothing but an Israeli agent. This is my big joke last June was, I told you he wasn't a Russian spy. He's an Israeli spy. And in fact, they even had like a funny conspiracy theory that the Russiagate hoax was actually a heroic attempt by the FBI to stop Donald Trump because they knew he was going to nuke Iran. And they thought, well, you can't say that because that's anti Semitic. So they would accuse him, they falsely accused him of the Russiagate hoax instead in order to try to bog him down, which I'm just joking about.

• 1:37:01Danny Jones?

  To try to save us from Israel.

• 1:37:03Speaker 02

  There's 75 pages on Russiagate and provoked, by the way.

• 1:37:06Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:37:06Speaker 02

  I hate Russiagate and I debunked the hell out of it, at least tied with the best Russiagate debunkers in America.

• 1:37:12Danny Jones?

  That's crazy to me that there's still people that believe that whole thing. I talk to people all the time that are just like, what do you mean it was a hoax? What are you talking about?

• 1:37:19Speaker 02

  See Israelis, look at who his son in law is.

• 1:37:21Danny Jones?

  Look who what?

• 1:37:22Speaker 02

  Look at his son in law, Jared Kushner.

• 1:37:24Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:37:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. This is the Likud, man. That's all it is. I was joking, you know, when he was running in 24 that he's running on the Likud party ticket. I wouldn't be surprised if he named Netanyahu Prime Minister of our Senate and kicked himself upstairs and just let Netanyahu run the whole damn government at this point.

• 1:37:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:37:40Speaker 02

  I mean, that's it, man.

• 1:37:42Danny Jones?

  I saw invited, I don't know if it was fake or real, but I saw something on Instagram this morning that Netanyahu is allegedly coming to the White House UFC card in two weeks. I can't imagine that's going to be popular.

• 1:37:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, he's got to do what he can to try to shore up whatever support he can.

• 1:38:00Danny Jones?

  On that post on Instagram was, uh, like this comment if what you really want to say will land you in jail. And I had like 2,000 likes.

• 1:38:13Speaker 02

  That's funny. I'd just like to see him get in there with any old member of Hamas and just do a bare knuckle. Let's see who wins. You know,

• 1:38:21Danny Jones?

  That's what I was saying. That's what I said to

• 1:38:23Speaker 02

  Saddam challenged George W. Bush to do a boxing match. Let's just settle this in the ring. Yeah. And Bush pissed out.

• 1:38:29Danny Jones?

  That's what I was saying. I was saying, that's what they should really do with the White House UFC ticket. They should get all the top, like, most, uh, most guilty people in the Epstein files and let them do a celebrity death match, like a political death match on the White House, White House lawn.

• 1:38:44Speaker 02

  Sounds good to me, dude. I'll help you curate the list there.

• 1:38:49Danny Jones?

  I think that would be, that would be entertainment. That's the entertainment that America needs.

• 1:38:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, dude. Set us free.

• 1:38:57Danny Jones?

  Um, so what do you think the outcome will be of everything that's happening in Iran right now?

• 1:39:04Speaker 02

  Well, okay, as I said, George W. Bush put Iran up two picks by giving them Baghdad, giving their best friends Baghdad. They're not total puppets, but they're very close. Compared to having Saddam sitting in power in Baghdad, George W. Bush enhanced Iranian power by hundreds of percentage points, right? Um, this is at least equivalent to that. And in fact, probably much worse in terms of American, you know, strategic folly. Now, I don't give a damn because I want to come home from everywhere anyway. So it's no great loss to me. But the war with Iraq didn't result in us losing all our Middle East bases. Didn't

• 1:39:49Speaker 02

  result in, you know, really the calling of the bluff of American conventional military power because of course, America did kick Iraq's, the nation states militaries ass in three weeks, right? Uh, same with the Taliban. They can't stand against our air power, our Marines, our army, our Green Berets would go in there and blast the crap out of them. But in both cases, they proved that we cannot defeat an insurgency, right? We can take on a state army. But as far as like leaving our guys standing on a street corner, they get blown up and we're not really that good at figuring out how to deal with that very much. You know what I mean? Yeah. Urban combat and picking and choosing parties in some crazy foreign country where, you know, they're every one of their customs is different

• 1:40:33Speaker 02

  from ours and everything else.

• 1:40:37Speaker 02

  So you could even cut them a break, right? You could even say that like, well, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, they really only prove our inability to do counter insurgency, right? They proved that Stan McChrystal and David Petraeus are full of crap when they push all this coin doctrine stuff. James Mattis too. Those guys suck. Still though, you can't take on like our real big green machine when we're coming at you. You can't take on our navy. You can't take on our air force. You can't stop our army if we really come at you. Well, here we really came at a country that's nothing like a near peer to us, right? Iran is a not

• 1:41:16Speaker 02

  even a mid rank power, right? They're in the lower third at least of nation states, you know, powerful nation states in the world. And they held us at bay. And not only that, but they proved that they can reach out and touch all of our bases in the region. They hit our bases in, you know, from Northern Iraqi Kurdistan all the way down to Oman. Hit Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi, UAE, Oman, and also Jordan. Now, they didn't destroy all those bases.

• 1:41:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:41:45Speaker 02

  But they hit them. And they took out whatever radars they wanted to. They pitted runways. They hit planes sitting out on the tarmac, the AWACS, the Boeing, you know, midair refuelers. And they proved that essentially no American base is safe. I'm very fond of quoting Justin Logan from the Cato Institute, said, what good is a military base that you can't wage a war from? And like, whatever dude, it's true. I've worn for 20 years that this is the case. You know, you're familiar with that map? That this is like the funny meme that goes around and says, oh yeah, well, if Iran, if Iran doesn't want trouble with us, how come they put their country

• 1:42:26Speaker 02

  so close to all our military bases, right? And it shows all those military bases around. But I would always make the point that you see, that's why we can't have a war. All our guys are hostage. All our guys are too close to Iran.

• 1:42:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:42:38Speaker 02

  Now, back in the Bush years and Obama years, we had 100,000 guys in Iraq and 50,000 in Afghanistan. They were all hostages. They were allied with the Shiites in both countries. They could have got order 66 right in the back, right? Is that too old of a reference now? 21 years ago?

• 1:42:56Speaker 02

  So that was one of the main reasons that W. Bush was afraid to do it back in 2007 was we had our guys embedded with the Shiites. We're turning their Shiite militias into the Iraqi army. We start bombing Iran. All our guys could get shot right in the back. Right. Well, but even still without that, just having a few bases in, you know, the green zone and in Kurdistan. Still, they can reach out and touch them. And they did reach out and hit every one of our bases in Kuwait. Bahrain, our fifth fleet stationed at Bahrain, totally destroyed. Our main airbase at Al Udeed in Qatar, taken totally offline. They hit it a few times and then the Qataris agreed, "We won't let America fly any sorties out of this base for Iran to spare it."

• 1:43:41Speaker 02

  That's our central command headquarters, our main airbase in the region, null and void. When war breaks out, the locals go, "Oh, sorry. You can't use your base." And then they hit, you know, whatever else in Saudi and UAE and the rest too. So that means then, like, picture the Gulf. It's been the case really since World War II, but especially since the Carter Doctrine in 1980, that the Persian Gulf is an American lake. We will, in fact, Carter announced that the Soviet Union tried to invade Afghanistan and dominate the Gulf, that that would mean nuclear war with the United States of America. You know, he's given like a NATO Article Five war guarantee to that body of water. Nobody better try to dominate this Gulf, or you gotta fight with us.

• 1:44:25Speaker 02

  Well, that bluff is cancelled. It's called. And on a totally unforced error, on a war that we started that we absolutely did not have to. We bombed them on the 28th. Why not on the 27th? We had no need to bomb them on the 27th. We didn't have any need to bomb them on the 28th either. Right. We started this war, a total unforced error. And then, and so like Iraq put Iran up by a huge percent. This has too, but it has also, because of course it's half their Gulf, right? It's half their coastline. But it's also taken us down three pegs over there, right? Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi, UAE, Oman, Iraq, all those countries, Jordan, they all have...

• 1:45:05Speaker 02

  By far, like, I don't know how to quantify it, but a massive deficit in trust in the United States conventional military power to protect them. We cannot shoot down all the incoming rockets.

• 1:45:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:45:16Speaker 02

  We cannot just sit here and beat our chests and say that everybody has to do what we say or else. Apparently, the Iranians ain't that afraid. They'll keep fighting. So it changes the calculation. Hell, it's got to change the entire, you know, conception of the balance of power in East Asia as well. South Korea, Japan, and Indonesia, and Australia, and obviously, the Taiwanese, everybody has to be now wondering, what good are American war guarantees? I mean, obviously, we have H bombs, so nobody ever better attack Los Angeles or Norfolk, right? Or you're gonna have a real problem. But can we actually use our conventional military power to choose winners and losers around the world?

• 1:46:01Speaker 02

  Evidently, all you need is like a moderately sized intermediate range missile force.

• 1:46:06Danny Jones?

  Right, and they got those drones too, which are taking out our rockets, and the asymmetrical warfare part of it, where their drones only cost 50 grand versus a million dollar rocket.

• 1:46:14Speaker 02

  I read a thing that says they cost eight.

• 1:46:16Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:46:16Speaker 02

  People are way overestimating the cost of those.

• 1:46:19Danny Jones?

  Last night, what happened? Something happened yesterday where we shot down a bunch of their drones?

• 1:46:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were attacking Kuwait in response to America attacking, you know, we're on, it's like an Israeli style ceasefire where we're still attacking them. And now, it hasn't completely fallen apart into general hostilities at the time we're recording this, at least. The so-called

• 1:46:39Danny Jones?

  The 28th.

• 1:46:40Speaker 02

  The 28th of May, yeah.

• 1:46:41Danny Jones?

  Of May, yeah. Bless you.

• 1:46:43Speaker 02

  The, but there's a real danger. Now, so, okay, so here's the thing, and now I'll actually get around to answering your question, maybe. Iranian power is going to be greatly enhanced, but I don't know, I have no good way to predict for you, like, how Trump is gonna back out of this and end this. Like, what is he gonna do?

• 1:47:04Danny Jones?

  It seems like every day that goes by, he has less, less off ramps, right?

• 1:47:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he, he tweets so much, and he contradicts himself so much. Even, like, in the course of one statement, he'll contradict himself. You know, we have everything in hand. We're gonna have a deal like any, any minute now. And then, oh, the Iranians, they're so desperate. Surely they'll give in to me and whatever. Like, and the same thing, you know? Like, I thought you just said that they were like in the process of signing on the dotted line. Now you're saying you're sure they probably pretty much will once you hurt their economy more in another little while or, you know?

• 1:47:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:47:40Speaker 02

  So he doesn't know what to do.

• 1:47:42Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:47:42Speaker 02

  Netanyahu promised him, just like W. Bush, this will be easy. All you gotta do is go in there and knock them over and then you do whatever you want. You get whatever you want.

• 1:47:50Danny Jones?

  Funny, cuz like, I was just watching, like, yesterday, I was watching an interview that, uh, the dude from Vice, Shane Smith, interviewed one of the head people in the Iranian government.

• 1:47:59Speaker 02

  Oh, is that right?

• 1:48:00Danny Jones?

  Somewhere. Uh, he went there and he was like, walking around and they gave him a tour of their, um, their nuclear reactor or whatever.

• 1:48:07Speaker 02

  Oh, gosh, really? At Bouchere?

• 1:48:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I think so, yeah.

• 1:48:10Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:48:11Danny Jones?

  You can pull up that Vice video, it was just dropped like two days ago, or three days, maybe four days ago. And, um, like, they're showing it, like, look, check out this nuclear reactor. Guess who gave us this nuclear reactor? The United States of America, under Adams for Peace, some sort of act.

• 1:48:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, that'd be their medical isotope reactor in Tehran, yeah.

• 1:48:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but like, you guys literally gave us our first nuclear reactor. And, um, and then Shane Smith was like, reading, um, some of Trump's tweets to him, like, how they're, they're begging, they're begging for a deal. And like, fuck, man, I am, I can't, obviously, you can't just take everything they say as the gospel, right? I mean, of course, they're gonna, they're gonna say whatever they have to say to, to, for, you know, public perception. But like, fuck, man, that dude was, seemed, at face value at least, very measured and very reasonable in his response to this crazy shit, like, Trump's just like lashing out.

• 1:49:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:06Danny Jones?

  And, and, you know, this guy seemed very, he's like, look, the Straits of Hormuz. You know, it's not just about trade, but that is also, if we give America access to the Straits of Hormuz, we're gonna give a country who's attacking us and doing this war of choice against us, a whole nother front of attack on our country? Like, that's a whole nother angle of attack they can take against our country.

• 1:49:29Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:49:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah, this is the one. But uh, fast scrub through it to where you show uh, where he's walking through the nuclear reactor. It's pretty funny.

• 1:49:36Speaker 02

  It's funny how like, the Iranian leadership are notorious for all being a bunch of PhDs and stuff. I don't know if you saw that funny meme where their former foreign minister is saying, Alexis de Tocqueville, who I'm sure all Americans have read.

• 1:49:50Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:49:50Speaker 02

  You know, because he was educated in Colorado or whatever. So he read Democracy in America, but none of us ever have.

• 1:49:55Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:49:56Speaker 02

  I have Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville, but I never read it.

• 1:49:59Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 1:50:01Speaker 02

  I'm gonna read it someday, man.

• 1:50:06Speaker 02

  And the Iranian leadership will have them.

• 1:50:08Danny Jones?

  Oh, so yeah, so here, here's one, one of the questions he was asking this guy. He's like, look, if, this is the nuclear reactor that we gave them.

• 1:50:17Danny Jones?

  He's like, he's like, look, it seems like the, the source of all of your problems here in Iran, are your nucl- is your nuclear shit, right? And if everyone's so worried about you getting a nuclear weapon, he's like, bro, why not just go to fossil fuels? You got all these reserves? We could do wind and solar. Like, that seems like a legitimate question. Like, if I was the head of, of Iran, I'm like, maybe just like, let's get rid of the nuclear. It'll save us a lot of headaches. Let's just go to fossil fuels.

• 1:50:45Speaker 02

  So what's he say to that?

• 1:50:47Danny Jones?

  He, his answer was like, look, we're a really big country, and, you know, everyone else relies on nuclear energy. And he, he made like the climate change argument.

• 1:50:58Speaker 02

  Ha, that's pretty gay. And what he should have just said was just focus on, and, and this is what they have said in the past, is just, it's a matter of opportunity cost. They have their own domestic supplies of uranium. There's not much of a global market for uranium. But they can burn their own uranium to run their electricity program and sell their oil, if they could ever get their, their sanctions lifted.

• 1:51:19Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 1:51:20Speaker 02

  And then, they never say this, or I shouldn't say never, but I can't think of a time they explicitly have said this. And they have denied it before, but I think it's pretty clear, that their intention in creating their civilian nuclear program was, one, what we just talked about, they're just saving money on this, so making more on that. Yeah. But it's also because...

• 1:51:49Speaker 02

  And the hawks will complain that this is a giant loophole in the non proliferation treaty, but they're guaranteed under the NPT, the unalienable right, quote unquote, to enrich uranium for peaceful purposes, or to pursue nuclear technology for peaceful purposes. Well, the problem with that loophole wise is you can master the ability to enrich uranium to whatever percentage you want, and to be able to make yourself a nuclear weapons threshold state. So what they, their position has been since, I guess like oh six, at least, I think they, I think it's fair to say they, they had mastered the fuel cycle

• 1:52:33Speaker 02

  in oh six. Should double check that because there was a moratorium while they were negotiating with the Europeans for a few years there and they had an additional protocol, but I'm pretty sure they, they were enriching by oh six. But anyway, point is that what they're showing was, look, I'm not making nukes, but I could. So don't push me. Right? So there, this is like a latent nuclear deterrent. Brazil and Japan and Germany are the same. They, everybody knows they know how to make nukes. They could make nukes. They can enrich uranium, but they're not doing that because the circumstances don't warrant it currently. And so they're not. In the case of Germany and Japan, they have war guarantees from the United States. In the case of Brazil, they don't have any enemies that threaten

• 1:53:17Speaker 02

  them whatsoever. So why screw around, you know? And they signed the NPT. But the point being that, so the Iranians were in a tough position, right? Because America declared they're going after rogue states that had the capability to deliver weapons of mass destruction, starting with Saddam, but then maybe Korea and maybe Iran and maybe Syria. So Saddam goes, look, man, I got my hands up. I'm not doing nothing. I already gave you all of my thing. I don't know. And they went and they just buffaloed right in there. They just lied their way right in there anyway. North Korea said, screw this, man, we're making atom bombs. That'll keep you out. And they did. They withdrew from the treaty and they started making atoms.

• 1:53:55Danny Jones?

  Wasn't that something with Clinton where like he made a promise with Clinton, but he went behind his back anyways and did the bomb, got the bombs?

• 1:54:02Speaker 02

  Nah, not exactly, but let's get back to that in just a second. So, um, the Iranians said, look, man, our books are wide open, our hands are up, don't shoot, okay? You can see what we got here. So unlike Saddam who had no nuclear program at all, and they go, well, the fact that he won't admit that he has one is proof that he's hiding it. Yeah. Well, they go, look, we have a nuclear program, but you can send in your inspectors to monitor the thing. We're not diverting uranium to any military purpose. So you got no excuse to go after us, right? Um, that was essentially the position they were in because they knew that if they broke out and tried to make a nuke,

• 1:54:43Speaker 02

  that we would bomb them first. Like we were, W. Bush was essentially in a position, I guess he just decided, he, he didn't have the bandwidth to stop North Korea, so he just didn't. But if Iran had really broken out toward a nuke, he would have started a war against them to prevent them from getting that far. So this was the standoff really leading up to last June was Israel was saying, America, you can't let Iran have a civilian nuclear program because it's just cover for a nuclear weapons program. They're going to make nukes and they're going to use them on us. So you should just attack them now. And then Bush, Obama, Trump won, Biden said, no, we're not doing that.

• 1:55:26Speaker 02

  However, Iran, you better not break out toward a nuke and try to make a nuke. Cause if you do, we'll bomb you before you're done. You won't have a Manhattan project because we'll do whatever it takes to prevent you from getting that far. So don't you even try it. And then they would say, look, man, we're not making nukes, so don't do nothing. But if you do something and start bombing us anyway, well, then we might, right? So they were, they would never say that last part out loud, but that was heavily implied.

• 1:55:57Danny Jones?

  And they, we were, they were letting us give them a full cavity search, like.

• 1:56:00Speaker 02

  Absolutely. They had, now. And in fact, I got a little bit, I got in a little bit of trouble on the Rogan show a couple of weeks ago when I talked about this because he asked me another question when I got to, when I was talking about under the Obama deal, and then we skipped ahead to the war. But what happened was Trump came in and tore up the Obama deal in 2018.

• 1:56:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:56:21Speaker 02

  And so, the JCPOA. So now, as I was saying, Iran is already a member of the non proliferation treaty, and they already had a safeguards agreement with the International Atomic Energy Agency. All the JCPOA did was just add another layer of inspections and another layer of restrictions on their program on that. So for anyone who wanted to pretend that, oh jeez, we don't know, they must be making secret nuclear weapons, the JCPOA expanded inspections to such a degree that nobody could even plausibly make that case anymore. And then, but what happened was Netanyahu implausibly made that case in 2018. He did that presentation where they claimed that they found all those files at that warehouse outside of Tehran, and that all these files proved that they had a secret nuclear weapons

• 1:57:06Speaker 02

  program after all. And that was what they used to convince Trump to tear up the deal then.

• 1:57:11Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:57:12Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:57:13Danny Jones?

  So you think the JCPOA was a good thing?

• 1:57:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, look, people are mad because they got money. And it, it makes, you know, bad Hezbollah, where's he got this giant pallet full of cash, right? But the thing is, that was Iran's money that America stole during the revolution in 1979, that they had sent over here to buy weapons with. And they just kept the money. So John Kerry convinced them to join this deal where they roll back their program, they expand their inspections, and all they get on, in return, is their own money back. And sanctions relief that we end up never even giving them.

• 1:57:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:57:53Speaker 02

  Right? Uh, so.

• 1:57:56Speaker 02

  You know, there was such hype, Donald Trump said about it, I think yesterday or this, or I think yesterday, that under Obama's deal, they would have a nuclear, Obama's deal gave them a nuclear weapon, and they'd have nuclear weapons, and they'd be using them on us by now. Like, this is just, even like sub-Bush or Bill Clinton level lies here. This is completely retarded and stupid and wrong. He's just relying on people not knowing the first thing about it whatsoever. Now, he could complain that the Obama deal had sunset provisions on some of the restrictions, not on their restriction against making nuclear weapons, but on how many centrifuges can be spinning at any one time and whatever. But the thing is, if he had come in in his first term and just played hardball and said, now, listen,

• 1:58:38Speaker 02

  I don't like you, and I don't like the president I just replaced, and I don't like this deal. I want to get rid of these sunset provisions, or I want to extend the length of them, or whatever. He could have done that, right? But he didn't try to do that. He just tore the damn deal up. And then, according to the deal, it said in the deal, if America breaks the deal and leaves the deal, then Iran can then cease abiding by some of its restrictions without breaking the deal. It's said in the deal that they could stop obeying parts of it in order to try to get America back in the deal, essentially, to play that pressure. So here's where we get to this crap. I know you heard it a million times. Your audience has heard this a million times. But they got 60% enriched uranium.

• 1:59:23Speaker 02

  Well, you can't make a nuke with 60% enriched uranium. I guess theoretically you could, but no one ever has, and it would be a massive unwieldy thing. It has to be above 90% enriched uranium to make a nuke. And so what they do is, like Marco Rubio is the most quotable on this, but they all kind of do this. Rubio goes, hey, look, man, the only countries in the world that have 60% enriched uranium have nuclear weapons.

• 1:59:51Speaker 02

  Okay. Sounds good. Yeah, no. No nuclear weapons state is enriching to 60%. They're only enriching to 60% on their way to some higher grade. In fact, they virtually all nuclear weapons states make their atom bombs out of plutonium anyway. So he's just bluffing, right? What he's doing, what he's trying to say is they got no excuse to enrich up to 60% and they're like on their way to 90% weapons grade. And so you're supposed to be upset, but you're not supposed to stop and ask, well, why do they stop at 60? Why not 65 or 70 or 90%? They could have enriched up to 90% U235. Why they stop at 60?

• 2:00:35Speaker 02

  Because they're not making nuclear bonds, right? Because it's a bunch of crap. What was their response to it? What did they say about the 60%? I don't know if they ever explicitly said this, although I think they probably did, but it's clear anyway that it was leverage. It was a bargaining chip. Got it. Right? They're saying, boy, you guys really don't like it when we enrich up to 3.6% and you really, really don't like it when we enrich up to 20. Well, now we're going up to 60. And in fact, they didn't even do that until the spring of 21, when in the Biden years, because at the end of 20, in Trump's lame duck period, in December of 20, they used the Mujahideen call communist terrorist cult, the Israelis did, to assassinate the head

• 2:01:20Speaker 02

  of Iran's nuclear program, Dr. Farqad Zada, something like that. They killed him with a remote controlled machine gun in December of 20. And at that time, I believe that's when they started reaching up to 20% again. They still hadn't gone up even to 20% until then. And then in April of 21, the Israelis did a big sabotage attack at the Natanz enrichment facility and blew up the electric. Is the Stuxnet thing? No, no, no. This is later. Okay. And when they blew up the, the, the power station at Natanz in 21, that was when they started enriching up to 60%. Got it. And it's clear, there is no other explanation.

• 2:02:02Speaker 02

  The explanation is they're trying to get us back to the bargaining table. That's it. There's no other use for the 60% except to use as a bargaining chip. And yet. What these people do is they go, they respond to the pressure that the Iranians are putting on them by enriching up to 60%. By just essentially lying and pretending that the 60% enriched uranium is itself a threat. And it's to the point where of course Trump, you know, again, I'm pretty sure this statement was yesterday. He's like, they're two weeks away. They'd have had a nuclear bomb in two weeks and they would have used it against Israel and all the other countries in the region.

• 2:02:39Speaker 02

  And this is just 0% true, just zero. There's no chance whatsoever that if they did their absolute best that they could have had a nuclear bomb in two weeks. That's just a damn lie. And then if they had one, they're going to use one gun type atom bomb, which is going to be what? Like Hiroshima sized 10 kilotons and they're going to kill all of Israel and all the rest of the Middle East too. With their one atom bomb that they got now.

• 2:03:02Danny Jones?

  Let me ask you this.

• 2:03:04Speaker 02

  Like this is Bill Clinton level stupidity and deception. It's really embarrassing.

• 2:03:09Danny Jones?

  Let me ask you this. If they did hypothetically have nukes.

• 2:03:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:03:13Danny Jones?

  Who are like the top? Three to five countries that would be most worried about that? Obviously Israel is number one, right?

• 2:03:24Speaker 02

  Saudi, Qatar.

• 2:03:25Danny Jones?

  What about China and Russia? What are their stances on Iran? What is their concern of Iran getting nukes?

• 2:03:32Speaker 02

  I think China has been less helpful, but Putin has been very helpful in getting the Ayatollah to the table to do the JCPOA of 2018, for example.

• 2:03:40Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 2:03:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, they, and, and it was funny. Trump claimed this, but the Chinese did not. But he claimed that he had agreement with Kim, I mean, pardon me, with Chairman Xi. When he visited a couple of weeks ago, that they agreed again that Iran must not get nuclear weapons. But that has been the consensus of the UN Security Council and China has been at least abstained or been relatively supportive of Bush and Obama's efforts to get Iran to deal and to promise not to make nukes. The thing is, the nuclear weapons states are all members of the NPT, except for Israel, India, and Pakistan and North Korea. But, but the major nuclear weapons states, America, Britain, France, Russia and China, they do not want to see nuclear proliferation.

• 2:04:24Speaker 02

  They're already superpower states or, you know, major power states with. Nuclear weapons arsenals, they don't want to see those spread. They like, they consider things to be, you know, stable how they are. And so that's their promise in the non proliferation treaty is one, that they'll give up their nukes someday, which they don't really mean, but two, they promise never to give them or share them with anybody else.

• 2:04:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Nuclear submarines are the scariest part of nukes.

• 2:04:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:04:51Danny Jones?

  Because like, it one, it's one thing to have like a ground based ballistic missile launcher, right? But it's a whole nother thing if you can sneak a submarine up to the coastline. Cause then there's like, there's no warning time. It's literally up and then it's, that's, does, Iran doesn't have the capability of submarines.

• 2:05:08Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:05:09Danny Jones?

  No. Right.

• 2:05:10Speaker 02

  Certainly not that could traverse the.

• 2:05:12Danny Jones?

  North Korea submarines, but they're diesel powered submarines. So they're like really easy to hear and they got to refuel all the time. So it's like, not that big of a threat.

• 2:05:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. Look, I, overall, and we could talk about the, the North Korean nukes if you want to, but overall, the thing is, you know, I read this story about how we're working with the Australians and we're going to build up this new nuclear submarine force in Australia, nuclear powered submarine force in Australia. And they plan to be done with the whole thing by 2060, maybe it was 2050. But just the, you see how they reveal there that like, they had no intention whatsoever of having normalized relations with, with China by then. They, they anticipate a permanent, you know, armed Cold War confrontation in the Pacific.

• 2:06:00Danny Jones?

  Who?

• 2:06:01Speaker 02

  The Pentagon.

• 2:06:02Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 2:06:03Speaker 02

  Right. The, the American strategic planners is, they're, they got this huge submarine program that they don't expect to be ready to open for business for another 25 years. But that's what they're working on because it just doesn't occur to them that we could just get along with China and ramp down all these tensions and not need a whole new nuclear submarine.

• 2:06:22Danny Jones?

  Are these the Columbia class submarines?

• 2:06:24Speaker 02

  I forget.

• 2:06:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:25Speaker 02

  It was the same thing with Iran and the rest of these, we could just normalize relations with Iran. We could have normalized relations with Iran a long time ago. And then it doesn't matter if they have nukes and then they're even less incentivized to try to break out and want to make a nuke. Why would Iran want to make a nuke? We already got rid of Saddam Hussein for them. Who do they need to protect from other than American and Israeli aggression?

• 2:06:46Danny Jones?

  The only ones.

• 2:06:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, and by the way, you know,

• 2:06:50Speaker 02

  There have been so many times where American, you know, influential, powerful people and representing powerful interests, particularly oil interests, have wanted to normalize relations with Iran. And then it was the Israeli lobby that just vetoed it. And this goes to like the, in the early Clinton years, you know, Zbigniew Brzezinski had been Jimmy Carter's National Security Advisor. And so the Iranian revolution was a huge humiliation for him, just as well as it was Jimmy Carter. The hostage crisis and the failure of Operation Eagle Claw and all that, all that egg was on Zbigniew Brzezinski's face. But by the beginning of the, of the Bill Clinton years, right? So what, 13, 14 years later? He's like, ah, what the hell? Bygones, bygones, man. We can get along with Iran.

• 2:07:35Speaker 02

  You know what we should do is we should make a bunch of money building a pipeline from the Caspian Basin across Iran. That way we could screw the Russians. Cause you know, he was Polish and wanted to screw the Russians more than any other thing. So let's build a pipeline south through Iran. This would be a great way for us to make money and to end the Cold War with Iran and begin to reintegrate Iran. The revolution was a long time ago. Who cares if they got an Ayatollah or not, ever, man? We can do this. And, and Alexander Haig, who had been Henry Kissinger's guy, Kissinger being a Rockefeller guy. And Alexander Haig, and then Reagan's Secretary of State. He said, yeah, exactly, man. Let's normalize relations with Iran. Let's build an oil pipeline across Iran and have it terminated on the Gulf. Get some oil out of there.

• 2:08:19Speaker 02

  And you know who agreed with Brzezinski and Haig about that?

• 2:08:23Speaker 02

  The CEO of Halliburton, Dick Cheney.

• 2:08:25Danny Jones?

  No way.

• 2:08:26Speaker 02

  Whose job it was, you know, they build oil infrastructure. That's what they do. They build pipelines and transfer stations and stuff. That's what Halliburton is. They're a oil services construction firm. Dick Cheney goes, yeah, man, you know how we screw the Russians? We build a pipeline across Iran. And he even, and this actually caused a little mini scandal at the time, I happen to remember from the nineties. That in 1998, he made this complaint in Australia.

• 2:08:53Speaker 02

  And that's like bad manners for a government official or a former government official to criticize American foreign policy on foreign soil. Oh, man, you're not supposed to do that, even if it's Australia. So when Dick Cheney was in Australia and he said, that idiot Bill Clinton needs to lift these sanctions so we can do business with Iran, he said, God didn't see fit to put all the oil under friendly democracies. So we're just gonna have to do business with whoever we gotta do business with. And then that caused a little mini scandal at the time because he dared, you know, be overseas while he made that criticism. But what was his criticism? That Bill Clinton should lift the sanctions and normalize relations with Iran.

• 2:09:33Danny Jones?

  That's wild.

• 2:09:34Speaker 02

  In 1998. And then, so what happened was, of course, in all these cases is the Israel lobby screamed bloody murder that absolutely not. And then, of course, once Dick Cheney becomes vice president and he can socialize all of Halliburton's costs and have the Marine Corps pick up the slack in terms of their blood lost and the rest, then he'll just do that instead. And, and did push very hard for strikes into Iran in 2007 especially, but Bush wouldn't go along by that time.

• 2:10:00Danny Jones?

  So when Karyaku was here last, he was telling me that there were two national intelligence estimates done on the Iran's nuclear program. And essentially what this national intelligence estimate is, is where they get, he said, it's the highest level intelligence assessment that is you can get.

• 2:10:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:10:22Danny Jones?

  Highest one possible. It's where you get the heads of all 18 agents, all 18 intelligence agencies. And they all come together around a big round table and they all, they ask every single one of them.

• 2:10:35Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:10:35Danny Jones?

  Do you think they have, they're gonna have a nuclear weapons program? Do you think how, whatever, they ask them all and they, on both times, it was unanimous across all 18 US intelligence agencies that they did not have a nuclear weapons program.

• 2:10:49Speaker 02

  Exactly right.

• 2:10:49Danny Jones?

  Which is freaking nuts.

• 2:10:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the, it's funny because, um,

• 2:10:55Speaker 02

  It was published in November of 2007 and it made a huge, you know, difference when it came out. It was written by, Thomas Van Gar was the head of the National Intelligence Council at the time when they published it. It caused a huge scandal and W. Bush complained in his memoir about how he had to balance great before the King of Saudi Arabia and say, I'm sorry, Mr. King, how can I, your Royal Highness, how can I launch a war against a country when my own intelligence agencies say they're not making nukes? And I know what you think, you probably think that I told them to say that, but I didn't. They're screwing me by doing this and whatever, but there's nothing I can do about it. Sorry. And so what they

• 2:11:37Speaker 02

  determined in that, and in fact, check me dude, I bet you can find me saying, release the Iran NIE. I'm pretty sure I wrote that for antiwar.com in 2005, two years before the National Intelligence Assessment. So we knew that they had an NIE, two years before they finally published it. Damn me if it's 06, but I bet you it's 05 when I say that. Release the Iran NIE because we already knew that the National Intelligence Council has investigated this and decided that Iran is not making nuclear weapons. And it took two more years before they finally published the thing. And then-

• 2:12:17Danny Jones?

  When was the most recent one? Was that it?

• 2:12:20Speaker 02

  I don't know. I know they reaffirmed their same position ever since then, including in 2011 and in, you know, with the, all the estimates that came out after the JCPOA, then in, I don't, I don't know about Biden years or Trump one, if they had a new estimate then. I don't think that they did. But I know that in the threat assessment from- January, or sorry, February of 2025 by Tulsi Gabbard and the

• 2:12:53Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:12:53Speaker 02

  The Director of National Intelligence Office, which is relying on CIA and everybody else's assessments there. So this was not an NIE, but they reaffirmed their intelligence that Iran has not made the political decision to begin to try to make nuclear weapons, to embark on an atom bomb program. And then she reaffirmed that in testimony before the Senate, just a couple of weeks before the war started last June. Oh, damn it, it was 06.

• 2:13:17Danny Jones?

  Oh, 06. Wow, bro.

• 2:13:20Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, release the Iran NIE. If you want, as long as you're on antiwar.com, search for who's behind the coming war with Iran. And that's me from August of 05, where I warned that they can close the Strait of Hormuz.

• 2:13:36Speaker 02

  21 years ago.

• 2:13:37Danny Jones?

  Wow, dude.

• 2:13:41Danny Jones?

  You've been on this beat forever.

• 2:13:43Speaker 02

  And, look, I mean, and by the way, like, I am, as we established at the beginning here, I am just a skateboarder, dude. I only know this stuff because of so many other people were doing so much great work at the time. And my job was interviewing them, reading them and interviewing them.

• 2:13:58Danny Jones?

  Steve, that's not how you spell who's, right? Is it W H O apostrophes?

• 2:14:02Speaker 02

  No, you got it.

• 2:14:02Danny Jones?

  There you go.

• 2:14:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:14:05Speaker 02

  There you go. So August 5th, 2005, and just do Ctrl F for Hormuz. Or maybe, maybe I just say, I might just say, the gate of the Persian Gulf.

• 2:14:19Danny Jones?

  The gate of the Persian.

• 2:14:19Speaker 02

  It's in there somewhere, damn it. Where is it? There you go. Oh yeah, see, so I got this part totally wrong. Think of Iran as a fancy Western word for Persia. It's the other way around. Think of Persia as a fancy Western word for Iran. But then its coastline comprising one side of the Persian Gulf.

• 2:14:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:14:35Speaker 02

  Access to Saudi oil in the Arabian Sea could easily be halted, which would destroy the world economy and quickly.

• 2:14:42Danny Jones?

  Dude.

• 2:14:43Speaker 02

  Sorry dude. But so yeah, a lot of people were warning about this for a very long time.

• 2:14:48Danny Jones?

  Newsweek has learned that the CIA and DIA have war gamed the likely consequences of a US preemptive strike on Iran's nuclear facilities. No one liked the outcome as the Air Force source tells tells it. The war games were unsuccessful at preventing the conflict from us. That's another question. Like, are they not war gaming this out now?

• 2:15:08Speaker 02

  Yes. Oh, now? I don't know what the hell they're doing now.

• 2:15:10Danny Jones?

  Before they did this?

• 2:15:11Speaker 02

  Cause I heard.

• 2:15:12Danny Jones?

  Before, yeah. I heard that there was the Joint Chiefs of Staff dude, um, Dan Cain, right? Who basically was against this whole thing in the beginning. He was telling Trump not to do it, is that correct?

• 2:15:22Speaker 02

  I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure that Trump asked him if he should do it or not. I think Trump asked him, hey, man, if I ask you guys to put bombs on targets, can you do that for me? And then he said, aye aye, sir. You know what I mean? I don't, I never saw anything where Trump said, hey, man, this is a bad idea. Let me know or whatever. You know what I mean? I don't think, and, oh, you know what though? No, no, no. You're right and I'm wrong. You're right and I'm wrong because I totally forgot about this. Um, but you are absolutely right because they put this in the Wall Street Journal, I think, one day before the war. Wasn't it the Thursday before the war? That Cain was in the Wall Street Journal saying, we're gonna run out of interceptors.

• 2:16:04Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:16:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:05Danny Jones?

  That's what I thought, yeah.

• 2:16:06Speaker 02

  You're right. He leaked it before the war that he had warned Trump, we cannot shoot down all that they have to shoot at us.

• 2:16:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:16:14Speaker 02

  And this was, you know, the point here too, that I was making way back then, this came out as I was, I had the source then saying that they don't like the war games even in oh five. Um, but in January of 2007, the, the Joint Chiefs took W. Bush to the Pentagon and gave him a briefing where they told him, look, okay, we'll do the surge in Iraq, but we don't want to go to Iran. Don't make us do Iran. And they explained the reason why was because they would lose escalation dominance. And that means essentially that...

• 2:16:47Speaker 02

  The theory is the Pentagon doesn't want to fight anyone unless they believe they will control every stage of the conflict. That's escalation dominance. Maybe the conflict will escalate. If we attack them here, they'll attack, they'll counter attack there, but we'll be ready for it. We already know what all their options are and we'll have them completely pwned all across the board, right? But if we don't, like say Iraq, for example, what the hell are they gonna do about? As Paul Wolfowitz said, Iraq is doable, right? Iran, not so much. We can, look, are we the superpower and them not? Absolutely. Can we bomb them to hell and, and can, yes, and can

• 2:17:28Speaker 02

  they bomb us in our country here? No, right? But can we control every stage of the conflict over there? No. And the reason why, more than any other reason, it's the same one you already know, their medium range missile force. They never built up a big land army. They never built up a big navy. Trump goes, oh, we sunk their navy. Their navy is sitting in port doing nothing. Their entire military force was around short, medium, and intermediate range missiles. They can take out our bases, they can hit Israel. And so if, so we ought to not put them in that position. Now, remember how the Ayatollah, the old dead Ayatollah now, acted when Trump killed Soleimani?

• 2:18:12Danny Jones?

  Didn't do anything.

• 2:18:13Speaker 02

  He shot rockets at an empty corner of an American base in Iraq as a symbolic thing only, right?

• 2:18:18Danny Jones?

  And did he give warning too?

• 2:18:19Speaker 02

  He even gave warning. And remember last June, Israel with American help sits there and bombs them and bombs them and bombs them. Finally, America jumps in and drops 14 bunker busters.

• 2:18:30Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:18:30Speaker 02

  And was Ayatollah do? He shoots 14 missiles back at our base in Qatar, but deliberately misses and calls ahead and warns. Trump even thanked him. Thanks for the heads up for calling ahead and warning that you're gonna do it. So this is nothing but the symbolic open hand slap, right? Nothing like, dude, I don't want to fight you. I can't sit here and be a total pacifist in the face of you bombing my nuclear facilities. So here's a touch. Here's a slug in the arm. But then, come on, man, let's not do this. But then, as we're all warning, that if the goal is regime change, and you're going for a real war, and you put their back up to the wall. Well, they're gonna hit all our bases in the region, man. They're gonna call our bluff.

• 2:19:14Speaker 02

  We better have our boats way the hell out in the Indian Ocean, out of range, or they're gonna be sinking our ships, man. They could hit our ships and, and we're very lucky actually that, you know, even in their strikes where they did hit all those American bases in the region there, they did not target the barracks. They did not rain massive volleys and try to kill as many American servicemen as they possibly could. It was like, take out this radar dome and take out this air, you know, runway or, or, you know, refueling station or something. And then they hit oil refineries and chemical plants and all of that. But they did not sit there and try to kill as many Americans as they possibly could.

• 2:19:56Speaker 02

  And wisely so, right? I mean, I think they know our president is loco. And if they were to do something like sink an aircraft carrier, or, I mean, I don't think our carriers are dumb enough to get that close. But if they were to do something like sink a ship with a few hundred or a few thousand guys on it, then Trump might start reaching for really big bombs and get really upset. And they're not trying to do that. So they have not really targeted our Navy. They've not targeted us for mass casualties. They played an asymmetric game very carefully. And yes, they've hit civilians. They've killed civilians in hitting these oil tankers in the Gulf and all of that. Like, damn them. I'm not taking their side or whatever.

• 2:20:32Danny Jones?

  American civilians?

• 2:20:33Speaker 02

  I'm not sure. I know they hit American tankers up there, you know, off the coast of Iraq and Kuwait to show that it's not just the Strait, it's the whole Gulf. It's called the Persian Gulf for a reason, man. They can, you know, hit any part of it that they want. So, um, and they've hit, you know, civilian targets in terms of the refineries. And there was a, I believe in, I think it was in Bahrain, there was this massive chemical plant that they hit.

• 2:20:59Danny Jones?

  Is it the water desalination plants? Aren't those a huge deal out there? Because the water, they sold a little water.

• 2:21:05Speaker 02

  I don't think they've hit them yet, but that's the threat, right?

• 2:21:08Danny Jones?

  Because that's, that's gonna cripple the people there. That's gonna, that's gonna starve the, the citizens of the country.

• 2:21:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, could destroy.

• 2:21:14Danny Jones?

  And that was our whole argument in the beginning of this. We need to save the people of Iran from this evil totalitarian, um, religious craziness.

• 2:21:22Speaker 02

  That's a bunch of crap.

• 2:21:23Danny Jones?

  And, you know, if they start attacking those things, it's just like.

• 2:21:26Speaker 02

  Hey, look, they support Al Qaeda in Syria. It ain't about Islamic fundamentalism, dude. It's something else.

• 2:21:33Speaker 02

  Israel hates the Shiites more, so we'll support, you know, any Sunni suicide bomber, as long as they're fighting against Israel's enemies in Hezbollah in Iran.

• 2:21:44Danny Jones?

  I don't understand it, man. It's just like, it feels like, I mean, I know that Trump is probably the most poll-aware president in the history of the country. Like, there's no one who's been more hyper-focused on polls than this guy. And this is the one thing that he's just basically losing everyone's support on.

• 2:22:00Speaker 02

  When you gotta wonder what they're telling him too, man. I mean, like, what is it?

• 2:22:03Danny Jones?

  Like, what, like, just come out with it. Just like, tell him, "Okay, I was in the fucking files. Fuck off, Israel." I think people would like him for that.

• 2:22:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, dude, seriously, like, you know, I sincerely doubt that he hurt children, or that if he did, that they, like, have proof of that, that they can hold over him or whatever. Like, I don't know. I suppose anything is possible, but like, I don't think that that's really true. I think that they would have used that, the CIA would have used it against him back 10 years ago.

• 2:22:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:22:33Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? So, I just, I don't think it's that. Like, if they got him blackmailed anything, it's cheating on his wife with just some floozy or whatever. But, like, who cares, dude? Just admit that, bro. You can admit that.

• 2:22:46Danny Jones?

  Epstein probably gave him a girl who was underage, who looked like she was of age, and he didn't question it or whatever, and like, maybe, like, but still, like, the times that that was in, that was normal, right? All those dudes were doing that crazy shit. All the most powerful people in the world were doing that stuff. Like, unless he was doing something truly evil, just come out with it. Just admit it.

• 2:23:06Speaker 02

  Honestly, I don't even think it's that, dude. I think, one, it's the money from Sheldon and Miriam Adelson. Sheldon is dead now, but it's the money. They gave him so much money. And, and like, look, I think there's a handshake there, but also, like, these are just his friends, right? This is the way, it's not like...

• 2:23:25Speaker 02

  You know, people would say about him, especially like in his first term, that like, oh, I think this guy's anti-Semitic. And I was like, dude, first of all, he's like completely philo-semitic. You know, he's like, obviously surrounds himself with the far Israeli right even. You know what I mean? He's like a Israeli Jewish nationalist in his own way, or whatever.

• 2:23:46Danny Jones?

  He said they would, they would vote him to be president over there.

• 2:23:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. But even if they, even if he didn't like them though, if he didn't like them, then he would dislike the Arabs a hundred times more. Right? If that's what we're talking about, I was like, Trump is some kind of crotchety old racist or whatever, which I don't even think is really right. But, but like, does he have any regard for the Arab Palestinians at all? Even if they're Christians, dude, he doesn't care about them at all, dude. The Israelis are his friends. They tell him that he's handsome and tall and wealthy and successful, and he likes that stuff.

• 2:24:19Danny Jones?

  You think it's that simple?

• 2:24:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, dude, I guarantee you, speaking of national intelligence estimates, I guarantee you, there's a national intelligence estimate in Israel that simply says, just flatter him.

• 2:24:29Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:24:30Speaker 02

  Right? Like, that's all. Just tell him he's handsome. He'll do anything you say. And in fact, you guys might have seen this.

• 2:24:35Danny Jones?

  You got a huge cock and you're the most best president the US has ever seen.

• 2:24:39Speaker 02

  They posted a video on the White House YouTube channel, and then they took it down a few weeks ago. This is, I think, when the war was still going on, like before the ceasefire was declared. And what had happened was, you could tell, he gave this speech, it was at the White House. He gave this talk to a small group. Um, and I think he even like acknowledges the camera for a second, but I think he knows the idea is, this is a private thing, and this is not going to be on TV. So he cuts loose a little bit more. And then they ended up, I think, accidentally posting it anyway. Um, but some people saved it and stuff, you know? But he says and thinks, cause he can, he can be like this, man, where he's just so abruptly honest.

• 2:25:21Speaker 02

  And he says in the thing, something like, you know, when people want me to do something, all they have to do is flatter me. I really like it when you tell me how great I am. And in fact, I'll even do bad things for very bad people.

• 2:25:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:35Speaker 02

  If they'll just tell me that I'm great. And I think that was almost certainly a reference to Netanyahu. I'll do bad things for even, I think he even said for very bad men. As long as they say nice things to me. Like he just said it like that. That's it, dude.

• 2:25:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you gotta believe these people when they tell you who they are.

• 2:25:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so, you know, this is how Bill Kristol used to get John McCain. He'd go, "Wow, John McCain, you remind me of Theodore Roosevelt." And John McCain would just swoon into his arms. "Who do you want me to kill, Bill?" You know, it's the same thing here. They go, "Look, man, you're even better than Abraham Lincoln. You're even better than George Washington." You're, you know, you're as good as Abraham Abraham.

• 2:26:19Danny Jones?

  Is this the video? Oh, wow.

• 2:26:21Speaker 02

  Oh, good.

• 2:26:22Danny Jones?

  Here, you can hear it through these.

• 2:26:24Speaker 02

  Oh, cool.

• 2:26:28Speaker 03

  Great show. I love this guy. He's so nice to me. Every time I watch, and I appreciate, you know, we're not supposed to be seduced that way, right? But I am. When somebody's nice to me, I love that person. Even if they're bad people, I couldn't care less. I'll fight to the end for them. So I appreciate it.

• 2:26:51Danny Jones?

  Wow, I feel like he's like letting out all these little Easter eggs to like vindicate himself, you know, like to explain to the people who are really paying attention, why he's doing all this crazy shit. You know, that with the Mary Maddelson video, like, "I don't even think she cares about the United States."

• 2:27:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, too, there's so many people who feel betrayed by him because they gave their loyalty to him, like, with him barely even really asking, right? He made a couple of promises about curbing immigration or whatever, and then he said no new wars. So I don't know about all his friends, but he said that. And so people just gave him their undying loyalty. He does not return undying loyalty, right? He'll stab his friends right in the back, right in the front. He don't care about that. It seems like the people he's most interested in impressing are people who used to not like him, right? Lindsey Graham, "Well, I don't like you. You don't like Jews, and you don't want to do all the wars." And then he's like desperate.

• 2:27:47Speaker 02

  "Lindsey, my man, what do I gotta do? Who do I gotta kill to make you like me? What do I gotta do to suck up to you?" And then Lindsey Graham goes, "Okay, look, just bomb the taunts, okay?" And he's like, "Okay," you know?

• 2:28:01Danny Jones?

  So, so you... You think his vicious attacks on people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Thomas Massey are just because Israel's telling them to do it?

• 2:28:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, well, you know, they crossed him by contradicting him on

• 2:28:17Danny Jones?

  That's true.

• 2:28:17Speaker 02

  on Israel, but yeah, I mean, I'm sure Miriam Adelson checked with him, like, you want me to destroy this guy, right? And then, yeah.

• 2:28:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:26Speaker 02

  You know, I mean, they spent, what, 25 million dollars on a House race? And this is how it works, by the way, man, for people who wonder about the, you know, secret Israeli control of America, what it is, and this is in, and they do lie, cheat, and steal, and blackmail, and whatever, there's, there's a lot of that. But their primary object, as in, detailed in, in Walt Mirshimer's book, The Lobby, is they're just a special interest, and they lobby just like a special interest does.

• 2:28:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:55Speaker 02

  And just like with Archer Daniels, Midland, or Cargill, or Monsanto, or whatever.

• 2:28:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:29:00Speaker 02

  Or, or Chase Bank, or whoever, they've got office towers full of lawyers, and secretaries, and receptionists, and staffers, whose job it is to do work. And so, they have a list of 435 congressmen.

• 2:29:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:14Speaker 02

  If anybody on this list crosses us, they get a mark.

• 2:29:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:29:19Speaker 02

  And then, they'll even come, I've, I've heard congressmen tell this story, guy just starts running for Congress, decides to put his, his hat in the ring in the Democrat primary or something. And somebody from APAC comes calling and goes, here, just sign this pledge, and we'll give you 85,000 bucks. We'll help bankroll your campaign. And you read the thing, oh, fine, what do I care? I don't know, we'll get your money.

• 2:29:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:29:39Speaker 02

  But if you go, wait a minute, no, actually, I don't like this, I'm still, I resent the way you guys helped lie us into war with Iraq 25 years ago, so screw you. They go, oh, screw us, huh? Well, we're gonna give this 85,000 dollars to your primary opponent instead. Maybe we'll give him

• 2:29:53Danny Jones?

  Double.

• 2:29:54Speaker 02

  190. And then, um...

• 2:29:59Speaker 02

  If you still win the primary, then we'll see you in the fall. And if somehow you win in the fall, well, we'll see you in two years. And they don't drop the ball. They stay on the ball. They've got their chart. They know who they hate. They know who their vendetta is against. They know who dared to cross them and who must be made to pay a lesson and to, you know, to, to take a lesson and serve as an example for the rest. And so you can even see the way AIPAC has been bragging about the defeat of Thomas Massey. Is, you know, this is what happens when anybody messes with us. Don't even try it. And now back to like your earlier question about, isn't that really bad has Bara though? When they just kind of can lord it over us that they're,

• 2:30:44Speaker 02

  you know, in charge of us in this way, that they get to make these decisions for us in this way. And I would say, yeah, but you see what I mean about how, well, they're to them, they're getting their work done. They got rid of the guy that they didn't want. And it worked. So, you know, whatever they suffer in terms of bad public relations later, that's more nebulous and diffused and spread out over time and place. But they got rid of the guy they wanted rid of. And they set an example for other congressmen that, boy, if you want a career on Capitol Hill, you have to go along with these people and they will get your ass. And there's just nobody organized with enough money to stop them. There's no group that says, actually, we have hundreds of millions of dollars too. And if you will only tell your AIPAC representative to screw off,

• 2:31:29Speaker 02

  we'll double whatever he was promising you, right? There's just nobody like that. There's no American patriot with money who's willing to spend it in that way. Not one.

• 2:31:41Danny Jones?

  Do you see any opportunity or any possibility of this changing? Or like the chickens coming home to roost with all this stuff?

• 2:31:49Speaker 02

  I mean, Well, it's a lot of fun, right, in seeing how poorly American democracy works on this case, right? Like you have, especially on the Democratic Party side, where the owners and donors of the party are hardcore Zionists and 98% of their voters are not. In fact, there was just a new poll that said half of young Jews in America want a bi-national state. They don't even believe in Zionism at all. They're, the headline was functionally anti-Zionist. Half of American Jews. Never even mind the rest of the Democrats, okay? Holy crap. So you have the power versus

• 2:32:30Speaker 02

  the people. And the people absolutely may not win, must not win, cannot be allowed to win.

• 2:32:36Danny Jones?

  Especially those AI tech surveillance shit.

• 2:32:38Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. And like, there was a funny anecdote from, I'm pretty sure it was the 2012 convention in LA. It was definitely in LA. I think it was in 2012. And it was the mayor of LA, Villa Rosa, I believe was his name, was the chair of the party. And they did a vote on Israel. And the ayes were like, aye, and the nays were like, nay, like the whole giant basketball stadium, just roaring with nays on shouting down this pro-Israel resolution. And the chair looks offstage, and he goes, "Okay, the ayes have it," and bangs his gavel. And the whole place just goes up in a riot, you know, like, you gotta be kidding me, dude.

• 2:33:18Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:33:19Speaker 02

  Because like, hey, those are just the rules, dude. That's just how it is. The people do not get a say. Y'all are just decorations. And that y'all are extras in our TV show of our convention here. You don't get to choose. And, but that is untenable, right? You can't just go on forever like that.

• 2:33:35Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:33:35Speaker 02

  And, and now on the right, on the right, it's becoming like 50/50, and even more so among the young, where people are also very much turning on Israel. It's not quite as stark of a difference in between the party and the people as it is on the Democrat side, but there are a lot of people on the right who are absolutely sick and tired of it.

• 2:33:56Danny Jones?

  It seems like most, you know, the ones I talk to that aren't, are just the people, it's like the, the, the people that will follow Trump to the gates of hell, you know, are the, are the only ones, like the people like, you know, like my dad's age who only watch Fox News. They don't really, they don't really give a shit about it. They're just like... Followers of Trump no matter what.

• 2:34:13Speaker 02

  Just trust him, yeah.

• 2:34:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:14Speaker 02

  And, you know, partisanship is the mind killer, right? You don't want to help those other guys win. They're way worse, even if you're mad about what this guy's doing and whatever, you know, that those kind of arguments work real well, but.

• 2:34:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:27Speaker 02

  But look, man, you know what it is, is it's just the abject cruelty of the Israeli regime and the way that they persecute their helpless victims here. I mean, you know, I don't know how confused people are about this still. I assume pretty bad.

• 2:34:44Speaker 02

  But, you know, the Palestinians, it sounds like they have a country called Palestine, right? Like, we're Americans from America and Canadians are from Canada and these Palestinians are from Palestine. And so it sounds like it's the country next door to Israel and that Israel's always at war with its next door neighbor, Palestine. But that's not right. Palestine is an Indian reservation. The Palestinians have already been whooped. The Gaza Strip and the West Bank were already de facto annexed and taken, stolen by Israel back in 1967 and the millions of Palestinians who live in those territories kidnapped along with them.

• 2:35:26Speaker 02

  And when the Israelis bomb them, what we're talking about is a canned hunt, right? This is not the same as America fighting Mexico across the Rio Grande. This is like America going to war with the Navajo on their reservation out in Arizona.

• 2:35:38Danny Jones?

  Shooting fish in a barrel.

• 2:35:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right. Like, like Dick Cheney and his friends where they, they do like a canned hunt, literally with, with, you know, fences and even like chain link ceilings. So they can go around and, and hunt wild and delicious animals.

• 2:35:54Danny Jones?

  That's fucking weird.

• 2:35:54Speaker 02

  You know, um, yeah, it's the Republican way of war, you know? So this is how, this is what's happening to the Palestinians, right? Is Israel is on top of Palestine.

• 2:36:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:36:06Speaker 02

  Israel's where Palestine used to be. And then these are the last, you know, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip is the last 22% of historic Palestine and the Israelis are insisting on stealing the rest of it. You know, they love to use these ridiculous cliches like, oh, If Hamas laid down their arms, then we'd have peace. But if Israel laid down their arms, then Hamas would just kill all the Jews. That's not true. The Israelis don't want peace. If Hamas laid down their arms, the Israelis would murder every last one of their babies and steal their property. It says in the Bible, they can kill whoever they want and steal whatever they want. The enemy is Amalek.

• 2:36:50Speaker 02

  Even though, actually, if you read the Bible, they finished killing every last

• 2:36:55Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:36:56Speaker 02

  Melikite 3,000 years ago. So you must just be bullshitting that these people are Amalek. Or you can just call anyone you want Amalek, and then you have the right to murder them. But that's all it is, is murder. It has nothing to do with self-defense whatsoever. The Israelis are the aggressors. Now Hamas did kill innocent civilians, not only on October 7th, but in the past, they've done suicide bombings and pizza parlors and city buses and all kinds of crap. Screw them and their horrible, evil, you know, murderous tactics of targeting civilians. Just because the Israelis are the aggressors, doesn't mean that they're heroes. Okay? But it means that the Palestinian civilians are the victims of Israeli aggression here.

• 2:37:40Speaker 02

  100%, 100%. October 7th, nothing but the thinnest excuse at this point for what they've been doing for, what, 80 years?

• 2:37:48Danny Jones?

  I heard they were doing something like taking the Hamas fighters and like having people following them back into their homes before they kill them, so they could kill them in front of their entire family?

• 2:37:57Speaker 02

  The AI. Yeah, there's an online news outlet called 972 MAG. That's the area code of the country code for Israel. It's called 972 MAG. And they did these reports on an AI program called Lavender and another one called Daddy's Home. And that's the one you're talking about. It ain't even just an IDF soldier falls on him. It's the AI decides this guy must be Hamas and then follows him home and then either kills him in front of his children or kills his whole family with him too. And they were doing the same thing. The Committee to Protect Journalists, at least at first, were keeping count of all of the Palestinian journalists that the Israelis were killing.

• 2:38:38Speaker 02

  And then in so many cases, showing where they would wait until the reporter, the journalist would leave his house, and then they'd kill his wife and babies right after he left the house. Or they wait till they get home and kill them all. And it's the most deliberate thing. I don't know if you saw Tucker last night, but Tucker had a fantastic monologue last night. And then he interviewed a doctor from Oxford University, who's a abdomen specialist, who was over there operating and telling Tucker the absolute worst horror stories, dude, of operating on children without anesthesia.

• 2:39:14Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:39:15Speaker 02

  People die. A little girl who was wounded in her throat and they operated on her. She was okay, but she couldn't swallow. And they couldn't give her IV fluids because they had nothing. So she just starved to death over two weeks and just died, even though she would have otherwise been okay. And talked about how, and we covered this at antiwar.com, that the signature wounds were clearly what's happening is the Israeli snipers are having fun having contests. Where they, today, they shoot everybody in the elbow. Tomorrow, they shoot everybody in the head. The next day, in the neck. The next day, in the genitals. Little boys blowing their parts off for fun. Their own commanders told Haaretz, our soldiers kill Palestinians, quote,

• 2:40:00Speaker 02

  "for sport when they're bored," unquote. And that's the commanding officers said that. They do it. They have contests for which body parts. Let's shoot them all on the left knee today. We'll get them all on the left knee. And then the doctors are like, what is this? This is like the fifth left knee guy we've had today. I'm like, oh, you see what's going on here? And then tomorrow it's in the eyeball. Tomorrow it's a little boy's parts. And then what they do is they justify this by claiming that they are the master race, the Uber mention. And that the Palestinians, they're the Unter mention. And they have the right to murder them, see?

• 2:40:42Speaker 02

  They are the exact equivalent of the German National Socialists. That's exactly what they are. They claim that they're the master race, that everybody else, they call them goyim, which just means, you know, the N-word, I mean, to deny people of their humanity so that it's okay to murder them.

• 2:40:56Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:40:57Speaker 02

  And steal their property that they covet, you know?

• 2:41:01Danny Jones?

  What is happening right now in Gaza?

• 2:41:03Speaker 02

  They're bombing, killing a hundred people.

• 2:41:05Danny Jones?

  I thought it was all gone?

• 2:41:06Speaker 02

  They kill people like a hundred a week instead of a hundred a day now. Something like that, maybe a hundred every couple of weeks. I saw the most horrific footage yesterday of this dead little girl in this guy's arms. And still photos and also footage of him, where they killed a, um, a family, a woman and her children.

• 2:41:24Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:41:25Speaker 02

  And...

• 2:41:25Danny Jones?

  You know what's so strange?

• 2:41:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:41:27Danny Jones?

  Elon Musk hasn't said a goddamn thing about any of this stuff. And it's all, it's all over Twitter, but RX or whatever.

• 2:41:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's completely compromised, man. SpaceX is a Pentagon contractor.

• 2:41:38Danny Jones?

  But like, he's also the same guy who said Trump was in the Epstein files.

• 2:41:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was mad and said sorry and deleted that, right? That ain't the same as opposing a policy, you know? Uh, I've never seen him be brave on the issue of Palestine, ever, you know? Um, but you know what, though? Actually, I take that back, because he's brave enough just letting us see it. You know, he could go along with the, you know, absolute censorship regime, and he does not. And the Israelis push so hard for that.

• 2:42:07Danny Jones?

  That's true.

• 2:42:08Speaker 02

  But you know, I was thinking about this the other day, um, when I was a kid, um, I'm 49, I'm a bit older than you, but when I was a kid, there were-

• 2:42:18Danny Jones?

  You skate-bared me, though.

• 2:42:20Speaker 02

  VHS tapes that went around. I never did quit, that was the thing, I stayed at it.

• 2:42:25Danny Jones?

  That's the key.

• 2:42:26Speaker 02

  Um, but there were these videotapes that went around called Faces of Death.

• 2:42:30Danny Jones?

  I remember this.

• 2:42:31Speaker 02

  And it was basically just pictures of like a dead body next to a train track or something. There was the one shot of that politician that says, "Stay back, everyone shoots himself." But, um, mostly, you know, it was just dead bodies from here or there. And I remember watching that and-

• 2:42:47Speaker 02

  I don't even know if I saw the whole thing. Maybe I watched it and like part of it. They had been Faces of Death two and three and what? And I remember there were some of the boys, you know, when we were teenagers. Like, oh, man, I gotta watch like all of these. You know what I mean? It's such a big deal.

• 2:42:59Danny Jones?

  I was, yeah.

• 2:43:00Speaker 02

  And I remember thinking like, meh, I've had my fill. Like honestly, I don't think I had ever seen a dead body before a real one, other than like Hollywood makeup, whatever. Until I saw the Faces of Death. And I was like, okay, like, whatever. Pop my cherry on that. You know what I mean? I'm a teenager now and not a little boy. So now I've seen what it looks like to see a dead body. I'm like, okay. Got my little shock and I'm kinda over it. But like, I don't need to sit here and watch this over and over and over again. I get it, you know?

• 2:43:25Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:43:27Speaker 02

  But now I'm like, man, compare that to the dead bodies that I've seen from the Gaza Strip over the last three years. Like, man, I, I got a, a clump of neurons over here somewhere. That's just nothing but dead kids. There's so many dead kids and just horrifically many little babies. Man, there was this one where they, they bombed the house and half of the little girl's corpse got blasted across the street. And she ended up hanging from some rebar on the already destroyed building across the street. And somehow her arm ends up, she's completely dead. She's, you know, gone from the waist down. I don't even think she had legs anymore. And somehow her arm ended up like this, stuck behind her head.

• 2:44:10Speaker 02

  As her corpse is just hanging up there like, this is some straight up like biblical level evil, dude. This is the kind of thing where if the Jewish religion was true, then God would be coming to destroy them for disobeying him again now, like he always does.

• 2:44:25Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:44:26Speaker 02

  Right? You shall not covet other people's things. You shall not steal. You shall not kill. That's all they do and deliberately target women and children. You, you know, the, I'm sure you saw the one with the, the grandmother walking the little boy across the square and they snipe and they murder the old grandmother and her little boy, little toddler boy too. And they, and they think it's hilarious. They don't give a damn. Yeah. They don't give a damn. There's so many of these, I mean, pictures of guys, you know, carrying their dead children in plastic bags, or they've just been blown apart and they're just trying to get them to somewhere to try to bury them.

• 2:45:00Danny Jones?

  Get the bodies, yeah.

• 2:45:00Speaker 02

  You know, um, and, and where they're absolutely deliberately targeting children, they can try to lie and claim collateral damage all they want, but it's absolutely clear what they're doing there, you know, shooting little boys in the testicles, that's so they can't grow up to make more little Amalekites.

• 2:45:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:45:18Speaker 02

  Right? And that's what that's about. It's genocide. That's exactly what it is, is genocide. And, and in fact, I'll go ahead and add, um, oh, there's the grandmother you got right here.

• 2:45:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah, don't put this in the video, in the, in the show, though. This will get us...

• 2:45:31Speaker 02

  We'll just show your reaction to it, maybe.

• 2:45:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, here they are trying to cross. I've seen this. I don't need to see this again.

• 2:45:42Danny Jones?

  Oh my God, dude.

• 2:45:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, they don't give a damn, dude.

• 2:45:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's pure evil.

• 2:45:52Speaker 02

  It is. It's pure evil. This is exactly what it is. You know, there's a, there's a story in Haaretz, you can find this really easily, um, where a Israeli military officer admits, he says, "We have a sub-army of Palestinian slaves." And this is, what he's talking about is real human shields. You know, they claim that Hamas fighting from within a civilian population is using them as human shields, which is somewhat true.

• 2:46:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:46:23Speaker 02

  And which insurgents almost always do, unless they got a deep jungle to hide in or something. Um, um, but what the Israelis do is they will take children, elderly, whatever prisoners, not Hamas, bad guys they captured, but regular civilians that they capture, and they'll force them to walk through the rubble ahead of the troops, force them to go into houses first in case they're booby-trapped or whatever.

• 2:46:47Danny Jones?

  Mines and shit.

• 2:46:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, using them as human shields. And, uh, they do it all the time. And there's, in Haaretz, one of the, yeah, there you go. "We keep a sub-army of Palestinian slaves," is what he says. And this is from, uh, the original quote comes from Haaretz. An IDF officer told that to in his Israeli newspaper.

• 2:47:10Danny Jones?

  It is important to note that we can enter houses without using human shields. We did it for months according to a proper entry procedure, which included sending in a robot, a drone, or a dog. This procedure proved itself, but it took time and the command wanted to achieve, uh, wanted achievements here and now.

• 2:47:26Speaker 02

  So they use elderly women. They send in people's grandmothers to clear the house to see if it's booby trapped first.

• 2:47:40Danny Jones?

  Dude, so fucking crazy.

• 2:47:41Speaker 02

  The Israeli government is, they're the equivalent of the Soviet communists under Joe Stalin. That's who they are. They're monsters, dude. And I don't mean the whole population of the country. I mean the regime that rules Israel. And in fact, the public opinion polls show that the Israeli people are really horrible on all this stuff, too.

• 2:48:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I had a guy in recently who was saying that, yeah. The guy, I think you, I think I got him from your show, actually. Shail?

• 2:48:08Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Did you talk to him?

• 2:48:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I had him in here.

• 2:48:11Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:48:12Danny Jones?

  He was former IDF.

• 2:48:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:48:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he was explaining all that stuff and how they sodomized their prisoners and shit.

• 2:48:17Speaker 02

  Oh, it's just, oh, yeah, the rapes and the tortures. I mean, this is something that the guy, the, the doctor was talking about on Tucker last night. Guys forced, blindfolded, shackled on their knees for two months. Not allowed to even lay down. They got, you know, they're handcuffed with their cuffs tied to their ankles behind their back, on their knees, and they're left like that for months. They're not allowed to even fall down and, and sleep.

• 2:48:39Danny Jones?

  How do they eat? Or shit?

• 2:48:42Speaker 02

  Somebody crammed something down their face, you know? Yeah. And, you know, they torture them to death in many cases. I happen to...

• 2:48:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah, Ben was saying...

• 2:48:50Speaker 02

  I always want to give the civilian population the benefit of the doubt that if they had good leadership, then they'd follow good leaders, too. You know what I mean? But they'll follow bad leaders straight to hell, you know? And this goes back to me as a 15-year-old boy in 1991. I told you, I didn't care about the Iraqis. I didn't care about the Kuwaitis. But George Bush Senior was giving me license to indulge in my bloodlust, right?

• 2:49:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:49:17Speaker 02

  It's not wrong if the President of the United States dresses you up in a uniform and tells you to do it.

• 2:49:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:49:23Speaker 02

  Or, you know, you get to watch it on TV, but it's us. It's red, white and blue. It's your country.

• 2:49:29Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:49:29Speaker 02

  Doing it. So now it's okay. You can be as evil as you want. You can, you know, take great satisfaction in the destruction of the Iraqi people at the hands of the American military.

• 2:49:41Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:49:42Speaker 02

  And be morally right.

• 2:49:44Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:49:44Speaker 02

  You know, with, with eagles and yellow ribbons and American flags and Waylon Jennings songs and whatever you need all around you to tell you that you're in the right, you're doing the right thing. It was the same thing for every 15-year-old boy at my high school. The same thing for the population of Israel. That our leader says that not only are we doing this, but we have to do this. So hell, yeah. Otherwise, what might happen to us or whatever, you know, people rationalize, justify anything. So in other words, then if they got a prime minister in there who was not an insane psychopathic murderer.

• 2:50:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:50:18Speaker 02

  But who wanted to try to figure out how to do the right thing. They'd probably support him in that, too.

• 2:50:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah. No, it just kind of shocked me when he was explaining to me that the young generation of Israelis in Israel, like, support all this stuff. And support Netanyahu and.

• 2:50:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're getting worse. You know, back, um,

• 2:50:35Speaker 02

  geez, 15, 16 years ago now. Max Blumenthal was writing his book Goliath and he moved to Israel to write that book. And I interviewed him about it over there and I remember him telling me, he's like, oh Scott, dude, you've got no idea how bad it is here, man. These people. He goes, the entire political spectrum in Israel is from Dick Cheney to Hitler.

• 2:50:56Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:50:57Speaker 02

  There is no left at all. There's a tiny little like commie movement, useless and probably, you know, more harm than good anyway. Um, even though it can hardly be more commie than Israel where the government owns almost all the land in the first place, but, um.

• 2:51:13Speaker 02

  But there's essentially, you know, the libertarians there are psychopathic, genocidal lunatics. The entire political spectrum is all like completely nuts. So, and they've been driven that way by their own regime. I mean, this may be out of date now, I don't know. But I remember thinking certainly years ago, that if they had decent leadership over there, who was willing to compromise and make peace with the Palestinians? And then make peace with the, you know, and normalize relations with the rest of their neighbors based on that, that they'd be fine.

• 2:51:47Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:51:47Speaker 02

  And imagine moving to a neighborhood and not just establishing that like, hey, you know how to fight, but like going around doing nothing but pick fights with all your neighbors all the time, just to prove how much tougher you are than them. That like, okay, you got your peace through strength, you got your peace through dominance, but everybody around hates you. And how long, how does that make sense for the long term?

• 2:52:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:52:13Speaker 02

  When, if you wanted a narrative about Israel that would make any sense at all, it would be that, hey, after World War II, during and after World War II, a lot of bad stuff happened, a lot of people got displaced, a lot of new borders were drawn. And what are you gonna do? The creation of the State of Israel in 1948, hard to go back on that. It's so long ago, fait accompli, whatever, whatever. But let the Palestinians at least have the West Bank and Gaza. At least let them have their measly, stinking 22% of what's left of Palestine. But nope, you gotta take all that too. That's not the West Bank, that's Judea and Samaria. We're gonna take all that, we're gonna take the Gaza Strip and turn it into the Riviera.

• 2:52:57Speaker 02

  No Palestinians allowed. And their 2,000 year old churches bombed off the face of the earth along with their mosques, so that we can have it instead. And like I said, this is the whole point of the clean break.

• 2:53:12Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:53:12Speaker 02

  Well, we could make peace with our neighbors, or we could just get America to kill them all for us.

• 2:53:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:53:18Danny Jones?

  Speaking of World War II, let's jump, let's make a big jump.

• 2:53:20Speaker 02

  Do it.

• 2:53:21Danny Jones?

  Something I'm no expert in at all, and I don't know much about, is this whole World War II

• 2:53:30Danny Jones?

  story. I know you have a show with that dude.

• 2:53:33Speaker 02

  Darryl Cooper.

• 2:53:34Danny Jones?

  Darryl Cooper, that's who it was.

• 2:53:35Speaker 02

  Martyr Made.

• 2:53:36Danny Jones?

  Martyr Made, yeah, who's, I haven't, I haven't listened to all the stuff, but I heard it's really good. And Churchill was a very bad guy during this whole thing. And a lot of people like to joke, oh, Churchill was the good guy, or the bad guy, Hitler was the good guy. People like to look at it through this, through this lens and, and.

• 2:53:54Speaker 02

  There's no particular virtue in victimhood.

• 2:53:57Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 2:53:57Speaker 02

  As Frida Utley said.

• 2:53:58Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 2:53:59Speaker 02

  We can both be very bad guys here, Danny, you and me both.

• 2:54:01Danny Jones?

  Yes, exactly. Essentially, I think, I think you made the connection with Churchill and George W. Bush. You said George W. Bush was the Churchill of the 21st century, or something like this?

• 2:54:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was what they said.

• 2:54:11Danny Jones?

  And this is like, this is not at all what they teach you in school.

• 2:54:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then, yeah, I just turned that around. The joke was, maybe that's right. Maybe Churchill was just the George W. Bush of the 20th century.

• 2:54:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:54:23Speaker 02

  Only.

• 2:54:24Danny Jones?

  Right. So, so the, the argument.

• 2:54:26Speaker 02

  To write the history and pretend that he was something better.

• 2:54:29Danny Jones?

  So, so I think the argument Julian made to you is like Hitler, he had the biggest GDP or whatever, and he would have gone on to, and expanded forever and eventually made it to the shores of the United States.

• 2:54:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, that's a bunch of crap.

• 2:54:45Danny Jones?

  So what really happened?

• 2:54:46Speaker 02

  Well, a couple of disclaimers, okay? First of all, I'm not the world's greatest expert on World War II. I've read a few books about it, but I've never, I've never written about it hardly. I think I wrote one essay.

• 2:54:57Danny Jones?

  And I think you gave a really good explanation of Pearl Harbor too, though.

• 2:55:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, well, when I say I don't know anything about it, it's, you know, you can judge like relatively, you know, compared to what I know about other things, or compared to how much other people know about the same thing, or what, you know, compare how you want. But, you know, I got some useful things to say about it, but I guess I can disclaim too, that like, there, there could very well be things I'm overlooking or whatever as well, you know, but.

• 2:55:27Speaker 02

  You know, my basic version of World War II is that it's all Woodrow Wilson's fault. And that what happened was when, by the time Woodrow Wilson got us into the First World War, the damn thing was over. You know, his whole slogan was peace without victory. But that was what was at hand. Nobody was winning and nobody could win. The Soviets, you know, the commies had taken over Russia and pulled them out of the war. They were freezing to death, you know? Or no, I guess, no, the commies hadn't taken over yet, but

• 2:56:07Speaker 02

  the Tsar's troops were essentially, you know, getting nowhere, frozen on the battlefield on the eastern front. On the western front, the French, the British, and the Germans, everybody was freezing. Nobody had any boots or ammo or anything, and no one was getting anywhere. The Germans are on French soil, but barely. And the whole thing is already a stalemate. It's a stalemate. And then idiot Woodrow Wilson comes and dumps hundreds of thousands of American GIs into the fight, and they tilt the balance and power so far in favor of the British and the French that they're able to force the Germans surrender on completely unreasonable terms. First of all, the first thing he does is he bribes

• 2:56:49Speaker 02

  Kerensky, the new ruler of Russia, to stay in the war. Now, the original Russian Revolution was in March of 1917. Lenin and Trotsky didn't take over until October. And the reason they were able to was because Woodrow Wilson paid Kerensky, the interim leader, millions of dollars and gave him tanks and guns and trucks and food and whatever to stay in the war. Well, I might be conflating with World War II there. Gave him, not exactly full and lease, but gave him a bunch of money and equipment to stay in the war. I guess I forget the exact extent of it, but it was enough that it convinced Kerensky to stay in the war. Therefore, then, when Lenin and Trotsky went to cease power in the commie revolution

• 2:57:33Speaker 02

  in October, one, the Kerensky regime didn't have any support from the people because he wouldn't end the war, and then, two, there were no soldiers there to protect St. Petersburg from the commies. So the commies were able to end the war.

• 2:57:49Speaker 02

  To cease power and then end the war. But then the British and the French got to dictate such harsh terms to the Germans that not only did it lead to, you know, their economic devastation, but they kept a full blockade on Germany and starved them by the hundreds of thousands, maybe millions starved after the war was over. And then they stripped them of all of their outlying territories as well. So you had major parts of Germany or, you know, what had been Germany and predominantly German lands were stripped away and given to Poland and to Czechoslovakia and to France and whatever. So this was, there's a great book by James Powell called Wilson's War.

• 2:58:31Speaker 02

  How Woodrow Wilson's great blunder led to the rise of Stalin, Hitler and World War II. And so step one is he bribed Kerensky to stay in the war long enough for the commies to create the Soviet Union. Then he helped the British and the French stick it to the Germans so badly that they were willing to accept the rise of the Nazi party in the name of claiming revenge and reclaiming their lost territories and prestige. So this is even the way I learned it in government school as a kid was that Britain and France had their terms in the Versailles Treaty were so harsh

• 2:59:13Speaker 02

  that it ended up humiliating the German people so bad that they were willing to accept the rise of Hitler and the Nazis. That's even my public school education confirmed, you know, told that much of it. And you know why? Because the rest of the story is that it's all the Senate's fault. Because if only the Senate had ratified the League of Nations Treaty and Versailles Treaty, then we'd have set up the original United Nations in Europe. And America would have already been the dominant power in Europe. And we would have been able to stop the Nazis from getting carried away as soon as they came into power earlier. So it's not Woodrow Wilson's fault for getting us into a war. It's Henry Cabot Lodge's fault for refusing to ratify the treaty, which would have solved everything, right? So that's why they'll teach you the first part is because it comes stuck with the second, that what we really

• 2:59:58Speaker 02

  needed was to join the League of Nations.

• 3:00:00Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:00:00Speaker 02

  But what they're admitting there is that if Woodrow Wilson hadn't done that, there would have never been a commie USSR and there would have never been a National Socialist Germany. And there'd have never been a Second World War.

• 3:00:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:00:11Speaker 02

  And you could add that they also helped to completely destroy the Ottoman Empire and let Britain and France seize the entire Middle East, create the State of Israel, you know, the mandate in Palestine and all the rest of that.

• 3:00:23Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 3:00:23Speaker 02

  Also flows from Woodrow Wilson's great blunder, as Powell put it.

• 3:00:27Danny Jones?

  Fuck.

• 3:00:28Speaker 02

  So then.

• 3:00:29Danny Jones?

  Butterfly effect, effect.

• 3:00:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, and like, I can, I can definitely recommend Darryl Cooper's, you know, he's got Enemy, The Germans War, Part One and Part Two are out. But also, my colleague at the Libertarian Institute, Keith Knight, has a great show, where he went over, he read Winston Churchill's seven-part history of World War II, which I actually am going to inherit from my dad one day, that he got from his, the Giant Seven Volume History of World War II by Winston Churchill. But Keith Knight goes through there and is like, holy crap, look what he says right here, guys, and just, you know what I mean?

• 3:01:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:04Speaker 02

  Reading it with that critical eye. And so essentially, this story that he tells in there is completely different from the hindsight story of World War II.

• 3:01:14Danny Jones?

  Well, the Nazis were here in New York, like, holding conventions and shit in New York City, in like, uh,

• 3:01:19Speaker 02

  Well, those were American Nazis.

• 3:01:20Danny Jones?

  Oh, those were American Nazis.

• 3:01:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, those weren't the Germans. That was maybe the German-American Bund, but they were American.

• 3:01:25Danny Jones?

  In like Madison Square Garden.

• 3:01:25Speaker 02

  American fascists, yeah.

• 3:01:27Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 3:01:27Speaker 02

  Is, you know, the Democrats make such a big deal about that, but you could fit every single American Nazi all together in one Madison Square Garden, and that's all of them, so.

• 3:01:35Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 3:01:36Speaker 02

  You know, they love to exaggerate that stuff.

• 3:01:37Danny Jones?

  I thought it was interesting, you were explaining this book about, it compiled all of the American headlines about World War II.

• 3:01:44Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:01:44Danny Jones?

  Up until the point where the, we entered the war.

• 3:01:47Speaker 02

  Well, it's not just American ones, but it's headlines from newspapers in, especially in England and the United States. It's called Human Smoke.

• 3:01:54Danny Jones?

  Human Smoke.

• 3:01:54Speaker 02

  By Nicholas Baker. And it's, oh, it's so interesting because, and by the way, Darryl, our martyr maid, he points out that there are some errors in there, it's not perfect.

• 3:02:03Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 3:02:03Speaker 02

  But what it is, is you read that book, man, Human Smoke, and it is about how They just had off-ramp after off-ramp after off-ramp after off-ramp and they just wouldn't take them. They are just so determined to get us into this war and by us, I mean the Anglo Americas, the English leaders. And as Keith Knight pointed out in his review of Winston Churchill there, and I've heard this quote before, but where Churchill says, "Look, man, he didn't give a damn about Nazi Germany and the evil of National Socialism or any of that." That wasn't it. What it was about was Germany was the most powerful nation on the continent and English

• 3:02:44Speaker 02

  policy, as Churchill says, English policy going back centuries, has been whoever is the most powerful nation on the continent, we go to war against them to keep them from dominating the whole continent, to keep the balance of power. He said, "If it was the French right now, we'd go to war against France. If it was Russia or Poland, then we'd go to war against them. We're going to war against Germany because they're the most powerful." And so that's, you know, long-term English policy. And he was unable to say, "Well, wait a minute, is that actually the best idea in this case?" And especially after our experience in World War I, where we lost hundreds and millions, I almost said hundreds of thousands, millions of young guys got chewed up in this thing, where now mechanized warfare is just so much

• 3:03:28Speaker 02

  different than it had been in centuries past. Like, man, there's something like 20 million people died in the First World War. You want to do that again after 20 years of improvements in killing people technology? That could get really ugly, Winston. Are you sure that you're just so married to this policy? There's no wiggle room in it at all? No, it must be. And this is in Pat Buchanan's book. It's called Churchill, Hitler, and the Unnecessary War. And the quote "unnecessary war" is from Churchill, only he's saying it was unnecessary because we should have just done it earlier, better, or whatever. But he also said after the war, in the rise of Stalin's Soviet Union in the Cold War, which it was really Churchill himself,

• 3:04:13Speaker 02

  went to Truman's hometown in Missouri and gave his speech about the Iron Curtain and how the inaugurating the Cold War. And he said, "Oh, look, huh, I guess we stuck the wrong pig."

• 3:04:27Speaker 02

  And which, think about it like this, okay? Hitler and Stalin, National Socialism and International Communism, this is like matter and antimatter, right? These guys are going to war, right? It's almost certain they're going to war. It's a huge part of what led to the rise of the Nazis in the first place was the existence of the commies in the east and the Holodomor and Ukraine and everything else, right? This was almost inevitable, right? Virtually inevitable. And I think Hitler saw that as well and was, he wanted to ally with England against the communists. Churchill, in effect, well, actually not even Churchill, Neville Chamberlain, before

• 3:05:10Speaker 02

  Churchill became Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain, of course, had declared peace in our time and that he had an agreement from Hitler about Czechoslovakia. He'd only take as much as he'd taken, but he wouldn't take the rest. Then he went ahead and took the rest. And then Neville Chamberlain, the lesson for all of us in history is that England and America should have invaded Germany in 1938, right?

• 3:05:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:05:35Speaker 02

  But what actually happened was, he went into an emotional fit.

• 3:05:39Danny Jones?

  Neville Chamberlain.

• 3:05:41Speaker 02

  Neville Chamberlain, because he was humiliated by this, right? So he threw a fit and went and gave a war guarantee to Poland and said to Poland, if Germany attacks you, we will jump in on your side. Well, thing about that is, Poland was ruled by fascists. They were called the Colonels and they were right wing, you know, nationalist, virtual Hitlerites themselves. And they were in process of negotiating over Danzig and whether the Germans would get a corridor to this formerly German, yeah, over this formerly German city of Danzig that had been awarded to Poland after World War I. Well, once they got the war guarantee from England, they told Hitler, screw you, now

• 3:06:25Speaker 02

  we don't have to negotiate with you. And so he said, no, screw you, I'm taking Danzig one way or the other and invaded Poland. But what happened? Because he knew that England had made this deal with Poland.

• 3:06:37Speaker 02

  Then Hitler went and made a deal with Stalin. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, the Hitler-Stalin Pact, that said, "Let's both invade Poland and divide it." And make, and have peace between us, because he knew that England is now going to declare war on him. And France, along with England, is going to declare war on him. So, what does that mean? That means he just has to fight all the Western democracies first. He has to destroy France and Belgium and Denmark. And then fight the commies, anyway. But just destroy all the Western democracies first. And in, in Pat Buchanan's book, he says that when Neville Chamberlain gave this war guarantee to Poland,

• 3:07:20Speaker 02

  that his own Foreign Minister, Lord Gray, said, "Are you crazy?" And said he should be locked in an insane asylum. For giving them a guarantee. Yeah, for giving Poland a war guarantee, because of course, Britain had no ability to protect Poland anyway. You might remember at the end of the war, Poland got turned over to Stalin and was enslaved until 1991. Right, 1990, right? So they weren't, they weren't, you know, saved by England in that war, even with America in the war. We'd have had to start the war with the Soviet Union. As soon as we sacked Berlin, we'd have had to declare war on Moscow. If we were going to liberate Poland, we weren't going to go that far.

• 3:08:00Speaker 02

  So, you know, the English are passing out war guarantees that America is supposed to cash, but we can't even follow up anyway. All we could do is liberate France. And the Western half of Germany, the commies even got the Eastern half of Germany. So, and 60 million people died.

• 3:08:21Speaker 02

  And because it's the worst thing that ever happened, you're supposed to believe it's the most inevitable thing that had to happen. But like, I don't know, man, maybe not. And especially when you brought up Pearl Harbor. The only way that FDR could get America into the Second World War was by lying us into war, by setting up those boys to die. And, you know, I interviewed Robert Stennett, is the guy that, you know, proved this case. He was an American naval veteran of World War II. And he even justified what FDR did and still believed in the war and still believed that that FDR had no choice. I interviewed the guy multiple times about it.

• 3:08:55Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 3:08:56Speaker 02

  He wrote the book, Day of Deceit, The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor. It said, "They didn't just break the diplomatic codes. They broke all of the military codes. They knew everything the Japanese were doing. And the White House kept that information from Admiral Kimmel and General Short out at Hawaii."

• 3:09:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was Admiral Kimmel and General Short. And they got screwed, they got blamed. But it was FDR who, you know, in fact, what, what Stennett found is not only that they had broken all the codes, but he also found the McCullough memo, which is the eight-point plan to provoke Japan into attacking us first.

• 3:09:33Danny Jones?

  What?

• 3:09:33Speaker 02

  And it's labeled A through H. These are all the different things that we have to do to get them to attack. And so one was leave all our fleet out at Pearl Harbor instead of bringing them home to San Diego. Then was surfacing submarines off the coast of Tokyo. Then was increasing support for Chinese resistance against the Japanese. Then was the oil embargo and the steel embargo. And all of this was made to provoke them into hitting us. That was why they did it.

• 3:10:00Danny Jones?

  So we could use that as an excuse?

• 3:10:01Speaker 02

  So that we could use that as an excuse. As the Secretary of War, Stimson, wrote in his diary, "By all means, the Japanese must be maneuvered into firing the first shot." And then they used that, they set up 3,000 American sailors to die so they could get us into the war in Europe. And so they did. And then Hitler, by the way, Hitler declared war on the United States. So they, FDR wouldn't have been able to do that unless he made that absolute idiot blunder, which he did because, and it's funny because I had always heard that this was just such a stupid mistake, but there was a reason that he did it. The reason that he did it was because he wanted

• 3:10:40Speaker 02

  the, if he declared war on the United States, he wanted the Japanese to then declare war on the Soviet Union. And then that way, the Soviets would have to divide their forces in, which would benefit Germany. But the Japanese did not declare war on the Soviet Union. So Hitler rolled those dice and lost. He provoked America into entering the European war, but he didn't convince the Japanese to entering the war against the USSR in the east. And so screwed himself in that way. But that's the explanation of why he declared war on the United States. But there's no question of FDR's treason there. They knew the attack was coming. They left all the guys out there.

• 3:11:23Speaker 02

  Had them bunch all their ships up together to protect against sabotage when they were just setting them up perfect to be sunk. It was such a lucky coincidence that all our aircraft carriers were out at sea that day and it was all the obsolete old World War I ships that got sunk. Thirty-five hundred guys killed.

• 3:11:39Danny Jones?

  That's fucking insane.

• 3:11:41Speaker 02

  It's crazy.

• 3:11:42Danny Jones?

  It's like this shit just keeps repeating itself, man.

• 3:11:44Speaker 02

  And hey, as long as we're talking about Pearl Harbor, let's talk about Iran. So

• 3:11:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:11:48Speaker 02

  Donald Trump himself compared his attack on Iran to Pearl Harbor. Remember he had the Japanese Prime Minister in his office and she says, why didn't you tell us about that you were going to attack Iran? And he goes, why didn't you tell us about Pearl Harbor? This is like making the direct comparison. And then, but in our sneak attack on them, we didn't just hit and kill 3,000 of their military guys. We hit two schools and killed an Oklahoma City bombing worth of children. 167 something or 100, I guess they they lowered it is like 150 something. Mostly girls, some teachers and boys as well, but almost all girls that were killed. Imagine the Alfred P. Murrow building, that Oklahoma City federal building, only all of them were kids.

• 3:12:33Speaker 02

  Instead of just 20.

• 3:12:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:12:35Speaker 02

  In the daycare there that the whole building was a daycare. That was what America killed in our Pearl Harbor sneak attack on Iran here. And it was the one school and then there was a different place, like a gymnasium where they were doing volleyball practice, a girls volleyball practice, they killed another 21 there. And they killed Iran's FDR, their supreme leader since 1989.

• 3:12:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:12:58Speaker 02

  And.

• 3:12:58Danny Jones?

  And his family was with him, right?

• 3:13:00Speaker 02

  And his family too, his, his wife, his daughter and his father. Oh, sorry, no, killed Isolde and left the son alive.

• 3:13:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:13:08Speaker 02

  Killed his, his wife and daughter. But then.

• 3:13:14Speaker 02

  But then also imagine if America had been a Catholic country and FDR had also been our pope too.

• 3:13:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:13:20Speaker 02

  That's what we did.

• 3:13:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:13:21Speaker 02

  We did a Pearl Harbor attack, a sneak attack. In the middle of negotiations. Against a country that was not threatening us on behalf of a third nation, based on some ridiculous lie they're making nuclear weapons. And then not only do we kill all their military heroes, we slaughtered their daughters by the hundreds. And kill their pope slash president.

• 3:13:44Danny Jones?

  What would we do in that scenario?

• 3:13:47Speaker 02

  Dude, I mean, yeah, as I was saying on the Rogan show. If.

• 3:13:53Speaker 02

  If that was our story of Pearl Harbor. Then our story of World War Two would be that we kept nuking them until we ran out of nukes and all the Japanese were dead.

• 3:14:02Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:14:02Speaker 02

  Right? They still justify nuking them based on just that's what they get for attacking us at Pearl Harbor. Where they killed almost all combatants, I think maybe all combatants died. And then we nuke them and kill 75,000 people in an instant in Nagasaki, 100,000 at Hiroshima. And we go, well, that's what you get for hitting Pearl Harbor. If they had hit Pearl Harbor and slaughtered a bunch of kids and they hit DC and killed that DR. We'd have, America would own Japan now, we'd have killed them all.

• 3:14:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you're right.

• 3:14:35Speaker 02

  But whatever, dude, we can do whatever we want and those Iranians are just gonna have to lump it.

• 3:14:39Danny Jones?

  And, and isn't it true, also, didn't Trump say, like, we keep trying to negotiate, but our negotiators keep getting killed? The Iranian people on the Iranian side, when whoever we're talking to, they keep getting killed, so we have to keep it a super secret now.

• 3:14:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, and what was funny was, like, the implication was supposed to be what? That they're being killed by Iranian hardliners? But, no, they're being killed by the Israelis. It was the Israelis who were targeting anybody that we're talking to.

• 3:15:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:15:02Speaker 02

  It's nuts.

• 3:15:03Danny Jones?

  The script writes itself.

• 3:15:04Speaker 02

  Trump said, "We got a deal. We're negotiating, uh, based on their 11-point plan, and we have a ceasefire." And Israel immediately ramped up their slaughter in Lebanon.

• 3:15:14Danny Jones?

  In Lebanon.

• 3:15:15Speaker 02

  In order to say, "Your ceasefire does not include us." And, and Trump said, "Israel is forbidden, all capital letters, forbidden from bombing Lebanon anymore." They just kept bombing them and paying any mind whatsoever. You know? This is, this is what led Tucker Carlson to say that Trump has evidently somehow been enslaved.

• 3:15:33Danny Jones?

  He's enslaved.

• 3:15:34Speaker 02

  To the will of Netanyahu. How can the ruler of the world's superpower be sabotaged and dictated to by the prime minister of some crappy little Maryland-sized state over in the Middle East? We don't, you know, I don't know if anybody knows exactly the mechanism here, but he's in charge, not our guy.

• 3:15:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah. It seems it's true. It doesn't make sense that there's like this huge invisible leverage where, where we can do all of this stuff for the small client state. Like, they must have a huge, huge invisible hammer that we just can't see.

• 3:16:09Speaker 02

  You may be right about the blackmail there, man, because, you know, they had all kind of leverage, all the exact same political leverage on W. Bush and on Barack Obama. On, you know, Joe Biden should have let him get away with murder.

• 3:16:22Danny Jones?

  You think they had leverage on Obama, too?

• 3:16:25Speaker 02

  I mean, just as much weight as the lobby has, but Obama, Bush and Obama both, and with Robert Gates as their secretary of defense in both cases, they told the Israelis, "No." I mean, Ehud Olmar really pushed in 2007, and Bush goes, "No." This is before the NIE even came out. Bush told them, "Forget it, pal, we're not doing it." And, you know, Robert Gates gave this interview recently where he said, oh, Netanyahu told me all this same stuff in the Obama years. Oh, it'll be easy. All we gotta do is hit them. They'll fall right down and we'll get whatever we want and whatever. And he goes, no, that's, and I told Netanyahu then, that's not true. That's completely crazy and we're not doing

• 3:17:06Speaker 02

  it. And so they at least had the stones somehow for whatever, you know, political capital they had saved up to say no. I mean, you might remember when Obama passed the nuclear deal, he gave a speech that was pretty hardcore in terms of these sorts of politics where he said in his speech, he goes, now I've heard the prime minister of Israel and his objections loud and clear and duly noted. However, my job is securing the national interest of the United States of America and you're just gonna have to suck it up Netanyahu. You know what I mean? But that was like tough. That was probably the hardest thing he ever did. You know what I mean? And then he had to say that specifically, like, look, man, I'm not ignoring you, but I'm just saying, this is my solution to your problem and it's gonna have to be good enough for you.

• 3:17:50Speaker 02

  Trump will not talk to Netanyahu that way. He will not. That picture, I don't know what's going on. It's a great meme of him, you know, pulling out the chair and pushing in the Netanyahu, like.

• 3:18:03Danny Jones?

  It's crazy, man. Sitting at the head of the table.

• 3:18:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, even that New York Times story where they're in the Situation Room, Trump refuses to sit at the head of the table. He sits at the side of the head of the table across from Netanyahu as an equal in his own Situation Room in the White House.

• 3:18:20Danny Jones?

  Dude, it's so, it's so crazy. It's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a crazy conspiracy that's just spiraling out of control. And it's crazy because it's all right in our faces. It's all available for us to see if we have the, the, the eyes to see it and the ears to hear it. And it's just like. No explanation. We'll, we'll give you no reasonable explanation, like even with the Epstein stuff, like we'll drop this all in your laps and we're DAK shit, but you'll be able to figure it out and we're not going to give you any answers. It's just here. Here it is. By the way, here's some, here's some UFOs by, while you're at it. Go, go play with that.

• 3:18:57Speaker 02

  Right. Yep.

• 3:18:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's an insult. It's an insult to us.

• 3:19:02Speaker 02

  There were people who even thought, and this may have played into it, that like one of the reasons they decided to launch the war was just to get the Epstein stuff out of the news. It was, there was so much in those files to be, you know, waded through so many independent journalists who were just.

• 3:19:17Danny Jones?

  Where's all the footage too? We know there was cameras. We know there was a whole, we had, we had witnesses that told us that there was whole entire rooms, half the size of this room stacked with servers and monitors that were monitoring everything. So where's all that shit?

• 3:19:30Speaker 02

  FBI has got it. By the way, you know, this barely got any coverage. I, and I was so busy moving and everything. I did not follow up, but Matt Taibbi wrote a thing at Racket News about how they found this whole other collection of FBI files, a whole like secret parallel stash of FBI documents, like files on everything and everyone.

• 3:19:56Danny Jones?

  What?

• 3:19:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, this is like, I don't know what, four weeks ago or something, and it had slipped out. Someone had admitted that they had like this parallel filing system and somebody followed up like, wait, what? What was that again? You know? Was that, you find that? Yeah, there you go.

• 3:20:12Danny Jones?

  FBI secret stash finally uncovered. For a generation, the FBI has kept a second set of books called prohibited access files. After a long flight, they're finally being examined.

• 3:20:22Speaker 02

  So I don't know what all was found in there, but this is the stuff, man, I bet you, I bet you there's stuff on the Oklahoma bombing and Elohim City and stuff in there, dude. You know, I interviewed an FBI agent who worked on the Oklahoma bombing case and this was, I don't know if you remember this, but right before McVeigh was executed in the summer of 2001.

• 3:20:44Speaker 02

  Dan Rather from CBS News interviewed some FBI agents who said that they had worked on the McVeigh case and or the Oklahoma bombing case and they knew they could testify that information that they had investigated was never turned over to the defense. So they actually postponed McVeigh's execution for like six weeks while they found a bunch of boxes of stuff to turn over to his defense attorneys and then they turned around.

• 3:21:14Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 3:21:15Speaker 02

  But I interviewed one of those FBI agents myself. His name was Rick Ojeda and he said that even then, after they turned over all the boxes, the stuff that he investigated, which was about the white supremacists at Elohim City, McVeigh's friends out there in eastern Oklahoma, that none of that stuff ever turned up, was ever disclosed. So that's the kind of thing that makes me think, what's in these prohibited access files? All the stuff that we don't want Danny to ever see goes over here in this separate drawer. You can learn this, but you can't learn that.

• 3:21:51Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:21:52Speaker 02

  You know?

• 3:21:52Danny Jones?

  And speaking of prohibited like files that they keep away from everybody, what about like the whole Joe Kent thing where he was trying to get access to the whole Charlie Kirk thing to see if there's any foreign influence? Never even mentioned Israeli. He just said, I want to see if there's any foreign influence. And they said, you don't get access to any of this shit.

• 3:22:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:22:10Danny Jones?

  This is before they allegedly said that he was blocked out of everything or lost his clearance.

• 3:22:15Speaker 02

  Right.

• 3:22:16Danny Jones?

  Which is just like fucking crazy, man.

• 3:22:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:22:20Danny Jones?

  Which makes you question the whole Trump shooting thing too.

• 3:22:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:22:22Danny Jones?

  You know, I mean Tucker did another great documentary on that. I don't know if you saw that. Tucker did a really, really-

• 3:22:27Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah. In fact, I just published a book by Ken Silva. You might know Ken Silva from Headline USA. He's a really great investigative reporter and we just published his book. It's our 20th book at the Libertarian Institute. It's called The Trump Assassination Plots. And he goes in deep, deep dives of everything we know about, about the kid in Butler, Pennsylvania, about the guy down at the golf club in Florida and then plus also debunking the fake Iranian plots against Trump, which are total bullshit.

• 3:22:56Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:22:57Speaker 02

  And yeah, it's our 20th book at the institute, The Trump Assassination Plots. And he goes into all that detail, what we know and what we don't know about all that. And like, I think in the case, especially of the kid in Butler, Pennsylvania.

• 3:23:14Speaker 02

  You know, they lied, right? They said that he didn't have this online. He didn't have an online identity at all and whatever. And then, but Tucker found it.

• 3:23:22Danny Jones?

  Tucker found all of it.

• 3:23:23Speaker 02

  All of that stuff, right? And look, I think this is purely speculative, right? Like, I don't know this, but I'm just saying it does make perfect sense that whoever, whatever intelligence agencies or whatever sophisticated actors could have software that can find people who are making unhinged threats online and figure out how to infiltrate their lives then and give them bad ideas and push them toward things that they otherwise might not do. I think the possibility is certainly there in the case of Charlie Gert too. Like, I don't think I really have much reason to doubt like who pulled the trigger there. You know, they say, we'll find out at the trial, but they say his own dad turned him in. Dads don't turn in innocent sons on

• 3:24:08Danny Jones?

  I heard that that was all bullshit. I heard that the guy never actually, I think I heard, I don't know where I heard this. I don't know. This is just, I'm talking out my ass right here, but I thought somebody told us recently on the podcast that they, someone actually got a hold of his dad who refused to talk to anybody in the beginning. And now he's saying, oh, that's bullshit. None of that actually happened.

• 3:24:27Speaker 02

  I don't know about that. But even assuming that the accused is the guy that pulled the trigger, it still is plausible that there are ways to identify people online who are that close to the edge and then figure out ways to infiltrate them and, and push them and give them bad ideas and even capabilities and whatever and get them to do things. So I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out. And same thing with this guy Ruth. I mean, everybody knows that he was a kook. He'd been to

• 3:24:56Danny Jones?

  Which guy's this?

• 3:24:57Speaker 02

  The recent one? Ruth? No, the guy that, at the club and, at the golf course.

• 3:25:01Danny Jones?

  Oh, the golf course.

• 3:25:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, where he had been to Ukraine and was known as a loon in Ukraine, had maybe succeeded in recruiting a couple of mercenaries from Afghanistan to go fight there, but like, I guess believably, they immediately started covering their ass and saying that like this CIA officer who was over there, said that when she came home, she told customs, "Look out for this guy. He's a kook. He's over there and he needs to be, you know, whatever, whatever." Or she told the FBI that or something like that. And people mistakenly said that he was in a BlackRock commercial and that was supposed to be so suspicious that so was the Pennsylvania kid. But they're not though.

• 3:25:36Danny Jones?

  Oh, they're not?

• 3:25:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, the Pennsylvania kid, he was just a high school kid and it was nothing, has nothing to do with the assassination at all.

• 3:25:42Danny Jones?

  The Butler kid?

• 3:25:43Speaker 02

  The Butler kid.

• 3:25:43Danny Jones?

  He wasn't in a BlackRock commercial?

• 3:25:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was, but as a high school kid years ago, that has nothing to do with anything, right? It was only suspicious if they were both in BlackRock commercials, but they weren't.

• 3:25:52Danny Jones?

  Oh, the other guy wasn't?

• 3:25:53Speaker 02

  The other guy wasn't. You know what he was in? He was in a video that was filmed by the Azov Battalion, who are America's sock puppet Nazi brigades in Ukraine, fighting the Russians. And so that was what that video was. It wasn't a BlackRock video, it was an Azov Battalion video.

• 3:26:08Danny Jones?

  Oh, my god.

• 3:26:09Speaker 02

  And so, if that guy's a kook and he's a nut and he's already convinced that Trump wants to sell out our heroic Ukrainians against the villainous Russians and whatever, then it doesn't take much probably for someone who, you know, has, you know, covert action authority in government to take a guy like that and push him a little bit.

• 3:26:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah. It's like the Lee Harvey Oswald story.

• 3:26:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know where Trump's gonna be on Wednesday, right?

• 3:26:38Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:26:39Speaker 02

  You know, he's gonna be, you know, playing rounds on this course here and what? And when? Now, I'm speculating there.

• 3:26:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:26:46Speaker 02

  It's also perfectly reasonable to believe that some loser can get a gun and reach out and touch someone with it. I mean, that's, people really don't like that fact, but that's, that's actually what's really good about guns, right? Is someone who is weak can be equalized with someone who is strong. Little old lady can shoot dead a crackhead and protect her own life. That happens, right? But that also means that some jackass can kill someone great without much effort, right? And then, you know, people get upset about that because it doesn't feel right, but it is possible at least. Which I'm not trying to jump to too many conclusions on any of those.

• 3:27:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:27:24Speaker 02

  I'm willing to speculate a little bit, but it is also true that like, firing a rifle at a target ain't that hard, you know? Hold your breath and squeeze the trigger or whatever, right? You know? Don't pull it, squeeze it.

• 3:27:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:27:41Danny Jones?

  It's just crazy, man. That, that, that Butler shooting was bizarre, beyond belief. I mean, just the fact that he was able to get past all the Secret Service people, the sniper people didn't see him. There was like, that, that one just-

• 3:27:53Speaker 02

  Or they did, but they held their fire. They didn't just immediately identify him and-

• 3:27:57Danny Jones?

  They were radioing back and forth, right?

• 3:27:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're sitting there talking about, "What should I do?" Like, "No, you're supposed to take this shot."

• 3:28:02Danny Jones?

  That was weird, man.

• 3:28:03Speaker 02

  That was weird.

• 3:28:04Danny Jones?

  That was very weird. And it gets weirder the more time that goes by.

• 3:28:08Speaker 02

  You know, one thing is though too, is you, you know, like I remember some of the reporting out of there right away, and, and I haven't actually had a chance to read the latest version of Ken's book yet, but there did seem to be a lot of like, just total jackassery on the part of the local cops there too.

• 3:28:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:28:26Speaker 02

  Where like, "Well, I wasn't supposed to be looking out that window. Jimmy was supposed to be looking out that window or whatever." And they're ultimately just a bunch of deputy sheriffs. They are not good at that job. It was like, they said the one guy was looking out the window, but if he'd only like, actually put his head out the window, he would have been able to see. Just stuff like that, which, you know, maybe those are convincing enough lies, but they also are like, because they're plausible enough that they could really just be the-

• 3:28:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:28:54Speaker 02

  The simplest explanation as well, you know?

• 3:28:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 3:28:57Speaker 02

  So, I don't know.

• 3:28:58Danny Jones?

  Well, Scott, thank you so much, man, for, uh, giving me this education on American history. I really appreciate it.

• 3:29:04Speaker 02

  I've had a lot of fun. Hey, show them my books again.

• 3:29:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Provoke, this is the most recent one?

• 3:29:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:29:08Danny Jones?

  This is the phone book on the history of Russia, Ukraine. Is that right?

• 3:29:11Speaker 02

  Russia, Ukraine, and the whole background.

• 3:29:13Danny Jones?

  Russia, Ukraine, and America's meddling, meddling?

• 3:29:14Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 3:29:15Danny Jones?

  I'm sure there's a lot, some great Victoria Nuland quotes in here.

• 3:29:17Speaker 02

  Oh, there's a lot of Victoria Nuland in there.

• 3:29:19Danny Jones?

  We didn't get a lot of time to talk about Russia, Ukraine. That'd be a whole nother podcast.

• 3:29:21Speaker 02

  That'd be a whole other show. We could definitely do that.

• 3:29:23Danny Jones?

  And enough already. Uh, time to end the war on terrorism.

• 3:29:28Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. And then, look, man, I am, uh-

• 3:29:30Danny Jones?

  Everywhere books are sold?

• 3:29:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, mostly Amazon, but yeah, you can find them wherever. And I have a new project, which is the Scott Horton Academy of Foreign Policy and Freedom, which is basically me walking you through both of these books and doing like the deep, deep dive on all that. And that's all at scotthortonacademy.com.

• 3:29:46Danny Jones?

  Excellent, man. Dude, your memory of this stuff is so goddamn impressive. Do you- Have like a photographic memory or something like that. How do you you recall names and times and like all this stuff? It's insane.

• 3:29:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:29:58Danny Jones?

  Never talked to anyone with like this this depth of memory recall on history.

• 3:30:04Speaker 02

  That's funny. I I was joking on Twitter. How do I know all this? People ask me, how do you know all this stuff? These aren't memories. They're vendettas.

• 3:30:14Danny Jones?

  I love it.

• 3:30:15Speaker 02

  Helps them stick a little bit.

• 3:30:16Danny Jones?

  That's a good way to serum in your brain. Cool, man. Well, we'll link all this stuff below and thanks again, dude. I really appreciate it.

• 3:30:23Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And hey, everybody on YouTube, check out my two shows, The Scott Horton Show and Provoked with Darryl Cooper as well.

• 3:30:29Danny Jones?

  Hell, yeah. We'll link it all below for folks. All right. Good night, folks.

• 3:30:32Speaker 00

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• 3:31:14Speaker 00

  And the best part is every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save, too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage, HMO and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.