Four easy-speedy steps to slash your mobile bill

Martin goes through his four easy steps to help you reduce your mobile bill. Plus, with energy bills likely to rise due to conflict in the Middle East, should you fix now? What do the Warm Home discount changes mean? And you tell us your children’s financial tips.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Cheers to fall savings at Whole Foods Market, home of higher ingredient standards. This Halloween, share chocolates and candies made without that spooky high fructose corn syrup. Throwing a party? Make it easy with a berry chantilly cake. Ready to cook pizza? No antibiotics ever chicken wings. And sushi made fresh daily. Fall gatherings never tasted better. Save through November 3rd at Whole Foods Market.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  In Our Time is a world-class seminar every week. Why was Jeremy a lonely snail? What were lines doing in York in the third century? I'm Misha Glennie and every week I'm joined by expert guests to explore the ideas that shape our world.

• 0:48Speaker 03

  It's one of the first times really that you consistently see someone painting teeth. I know that sounds bonkers.

• 0:53Speaker 04

  If I was going to define mathematics, I would say it's the study of structure.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  In Our Time, listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Tea or coffee? Love a cup of tea.

• 1:07Speaker 05

  BBC Sounds. Music. Radio. Podcasts.

• 1:11Martin Lewis?

  Hello, I'm Martin Lewis and this is the cunningly named The Martin Lewis Podcast. I do wonder what that's going to be about. Now, usually much of it comes from my BBC Radio 5 Live show with Adrian Charles. Though this week, Catherine Armstrong is sitting in for Adrian. But don't worry, there's also bonus money-saving tips just for you lucky, lucky podcast listeners. In today's pod, mobile SIM prices have plummeted. You can now get 150GB a month of data for the equivalent of a little over a fiver. I'll show you how to slash your mobile bill in four easy steps. Spoiler alert, we had a lot of successes in joining the show. People saving hundreds in just a couple of minutes, but you'll have to listen to hear that.

• 1:53Martin Lewis?

  Sadly, energy bills look like they're going to rise again this winter on the back of what's going on in the Middle East. Many of you are asking, should you fix now? So I'll talk you through that. The £150 warm home discount is to be expended to 2.7 million extra people. What does that mean and who'll get it? Today's tellers is Kids Say the Financious Things. What have your ickle one said to you about money? And the mastermind. If you buy something and it goes on sale the next day, what are your legal rights? Play the theme tune.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  My first time doing this with you, Martin, shall we?

• 2:48Martin Lewis?

  You're gonna be fine.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  I'm gonna be fine.

• 2:50Martin Lewis?

  You're gonna be fine. I've got faith in you.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  I'm gonna save thousands of pounds apparently. But let's start, shall we, with some news on the Warm Home Discount Scheme, Martin? This is something you've been involved in.

• 2:59Martin Lewis?

  Yeah, so the Warm Home Discount Scheme is something that gives some people on lower incomes £150 energy bill support in the winter. We've learnt today it's going to be extended to an extra 2.7 million extra households this winter. I say we've learnt today. We knew this in February. I remember speaking to Ed Miliband about it at the time. But then it was a consultation, but it was one of those consultations where I was told, yeah, it's a consultation, but it's happening, but we have to do the consultation. But today it has been rubber stamped. Now, for me, this is good news. Let me try and explain the Warm Home Discounts eligibility, what it was and what it will be. What was it? Well, last winter, you had to be on the guaranteed element of pension credit to get it

• 3:44Martin Lewis?

  or on any other means-tested benefit. But then, only if you had high energy costs. Now, what they're doing today is they're effectively scrapping the concept that you need to have high energy costs. And that's why 2.7 million more people will receive it. Now, I have to say, I'm glad about this because I've campaigned about real problems with that high energy cost. It left some people literally out in the cold or in in the cold as it was a poorly structured blunt instrument that was unfairly implemented, let alone the fact that it was a disincentive for people to improve their home inefficiency. Now, I'm just trying to explain what was wrong with it in my view. So this was a criteria that was introduced in 2022.

• 4:26Martin Lewis?

  And the idea that we're only going to give this extra £150 to people on benefits who've got high energy costs, it makes sense, I understand it, I didn't object to it conceptually. The problem was, high energy usage wasn't assessed using people's bills. It was assessed by an algorithm looking at the Valuation Office Agency data on each home, that's the home that they have for council tax purposes. But that data doesn't include how efficient a home is, or the home's condition. So it left many people being told that they didn't have high energy usage when they really did have high energy usage, that was easily provable because of their bills. And as one person, Rob, got in touch with me to say, "My home is too small to qualify, but I'm still as cold and as poor as I was last year, except this year I don't get any help." That was when it was first introduced.

• 5:10Martin Lewis?

  And there were other problems too, like people where there was no data were told they had to go and get an energy performance certificate, but the energy performance certificate cost them up to £120, which defeated the point. So I remember contacting Grant Shapps about this, the last Secretary of State for Energy in the last government. He was very warm, he accepted that there were problems, he said he would look at them. Tumbleweed. Little happened. So I'm pleased today, I've spoken to Ed Miliband about this in the past. I don't know how much of this is the type of campaigning I've done to say that the whole way the high energy usage assessment worked was completely flawed and needed to be changed, and how much of this is just they want to increase and put more people on the Warm Homes discount, because of course they've just increased the winter fuel payment for

• 5:53Martin Lewis?

  pensioners and many people of working age were going, "What about us? What about the support for us?" And this means 2.7 million more homes will get that support. So I don't know whether it's the practicals or the politics behind it, but that's what's happening. So if you are on a means-tested benefit, like pension credit, like universal credit, this winter in England and Wales, you will get the Warm Home Discount. If in Scotland, the read across I've got is a very similar scheme is likely to happen in Scotland, but we don't have the full details on that.

• 6:21Speaker 02

  And on that, Jones got in touch to say, "Do you get it if you're on pension credit?"

• 6:28Martin Lewis?

  So currently, you definitely get it if you're on the guaranteed element of pension credit, but if you're on the savings element, which is those with slightly more income who still get pension credit to compensate for the fact that they've done some of the savings themselves, it's still people on very low incomes. You only get it if you pass the high usage test. From this winter, everybody on pension credit will get Warm Home Discount in England and Wales, yes.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  Well, that's good for Joan to know. And Katie's also got a question saying, I'm assuming it has to be claimed by those eligible, or will it be automatic?

• 7:04Martin Lewis?

  Again, I can only answer for England and Wales at the moment, yes. Effectively, you are in the core group. And if you were being scored out because of high usage costs, you should now get it automatically. That's my understanding on the relatively scant details that I have today. If that changes and people do have to claim it, I will of course be telling people that they need to claim it when the relevant time is. But from the information I have at the moment, no, you do not need to claim it. This will automatically be paid to you if you are eligible.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  We're also talking about mobile phones and how you can reduce our mobile phone costs. You've come armed with your four steps.

• 7:44Martin Lewis?

  I do, indeed. I mean, I think the important thing people need to understand about what's going on in the mobile phone market is it is split. Many people will know, many people have got angry and got in touch with me about the fact that for the last few Aprils, consistently we have had above inflation rate price rises for people who are in contract on mobile phones. So even though you're mid-contract, I mean, a couple of years ago, they were up at 18%. They were less this year. You can have your mobile phone bill increased and you can have it increased by above inflation, which is absolutely infuriating for many people. Now, the rules have changed on that. So now for people on new contracts, they have to tell you in advance what the rises will be during the contract period. So that

• 8:28Martin Lewis?

  should be set out for you in advance once you sign up. For those people still on existing contracts that happened before roughly the start of this year, then you can still have the above inflation rate rises that are going on. But the really important thing to understand on this is that's about people who are within contracts. So prices have gone up and up and up and up if you're within a contract. But at the same time, we've seen the prices of the cheapest SIMs. Now, a SIM, remember, is the little chip, although in some cases now it's a virtual chip, it isn't a physical thing, that gives your phone its identity, i.e. which network you Use and what tariff you're on, so how much you pay for data or calls or texts if you were to pay for them. And those prices are a fraction of what they used to be.

• 9:13Martin Lewis?

  As I mentioned in the intro to the show, you can currently get 150 gig of data. That is more than enough for everybody but the very hardcore hardcore downloaders who are out there in a month. Unlimited minutes, unlimited calls, and it includes EU roaming for around £5.50 a month equivalent. So anybody who's paying more than that right now, there's an argument to say you have to ask yourself why. Now, it may be because you're in contract, but if you're not in contract, everybody should be looking to see if they can get a better deal. Because those SIM prices have been slashed in the last year or two. Step one, find out if you're free to switch and save.

• 9:55Martin Lewis?

  Just text INFO to 85075. So step one, and the most important step is, are you free to switch and save? And we can do this, most people can find out in just five digits. Obviously, if you're on pairs, you go, you're not in a contract, you're fine. But if you're on a contract mobile phone, what you need to do is text INFO for free. It doesn't cost you anything. So I N F O to 85075. This is an off comm service and once you do that, they must text you back and tell you whether you're out of contract. Now, unfortunately, they don't express it as clearly as I would like them to.

• 10:35Martin Lewis?

  What you're looking for on there is what are your early termination or your early cancellation charges? So if it is zero pounds early termination or zero pounds early cancellation charges. That means you are free to move, you're one of 14 million people who are out of contract. And the likelihood is the vast majority of people who are out of contract on their mobile phone are either being ripped off or are ripping themselves off by not acting. Now, I do need to do a few caveats on this INFO to 85075 thing. First of all, if you're with three or Smarty or ID Mobile, you will need to reply with your data. of birth to prove your identity. And if you're on a multiple phone contract, so you've got two phones on a household bill,

• 11:20Martin Lewis?

  then they don't have to answer you. They will just say, sorry, you're on a multiple phone contract. We can't answer you. But my general rule of thumb is if you've been with the same provider and haven't shifted tariff for two years or more, you're almost certainly out of contract. Now, what is interesting on this is I put this out on social media on a little video yesterday. And I've had quite a few people saying to me, it doesn't work. Now, I have to say the huge majority said, does work and it is free. But I've had lots of people saying, they tell me I have to pay for the text. You shouldn't. They tell me they can't give you an answer. They should. So what I'm doing with my team at the moment is we're compiling the data and which providers that is, and we're going to go to the regulator with it. That isn't to put you off doing this. It's just a text. Just do the text.

• 12:00Martin Lewis?

  Info to eight five oh seven five. Just do it. Find out what your answer is. I can't promise it's perfect. It can't promise it's perfect. The vast majority of people it works for, and it simply tells you whether you can then be looking for a better deal.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  You do realise loads of people are going to do it and only the ones who can't do it are going to text in.

• 12:19Martin Lewis?

  Well, that's exactly what happened on social media. The vast majority, you know, the, if you contrast the views to the number of people who got back, it's clearly that the people it doesn't work for are the ones who respond in the main. But that's the nature of it. I'm, I've been doing this a long time. I'm pretty savvy to that.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  Lee's got in touch with a question saying, how can I switch my mobile contract without it costing the earth? Sky only gives pennies for a phone if I send it back and charge so much to end the contract.

• 12:45Martin Lewis?

  Okay, the key bit of that question is the last bit. Look, let's be blunt. You sign up for a contract. The contract is to provide you with a service for a set period of time. And you get a price that is D mark to be over that set period of time. And if you want to leave it early, unless they have put prices up, and a side note on Sky. I said earlier that when you sign up to a new contract, they must tell you what the price rises are going to be during the contract period in advance. They don't always have to do that. The vast majority do. One of the firms that doesn't do that is Sky. Sky doesn't tell you in advance, but then if it does increase your price mid-contract, it has to allow you to leave within 30 days penalty free.

• 13:28Martin Lewis?

  So always watch out for your price hike on Sky and decide whether you still want to be with it at that point, mobile and broadband that applies to. But in the case of you're still within a contract and you have early cancellation charges, unless you are no longer getting an adequate service, and even then it is quite difficult to do, then you do have to pay them the cancellation fee for leaving and getting out of your contract. And in most cases, you may as well stay, which is why my first step is to find out if you're out of contract. There are a few firms where there is a slight loophole on this. For example, let's say you're on a 15 quid tariff and they enable you to move within contract to a different tariff. So then you'd move from a 15 quid tariff to the very cheapest tariff they have, say they have one for eight pounds, and then you would pay the cancellation fee, which

• 14:12Martin Lewis?

  might be six months remaining on your contract, but it's now six months of eight quid, not six quid, six months of 15 pounds, which is cheaper. But in general, if you're within contract, you're stuck. So make sure you're diarising about a month before your contract ends and then you need to start your hunt for a better deal.

• 14:30Speaker 02

  I had a few messages already coming in on this, saying, just did the text as Martin suggested, they replied instantly, telling me to leave would be for free, currently paying 27 pounds a month.

• 14:42Martin Lewis?

  Oh, hold, stay, we are saving you money. I mean, 27 pounds a month, let's just, let's just examine that for a moment. Why would anyone be paying 27 pounds a month? Well, first of all, because they're still paying off their handset. So you're within contract and you're paying off your handset. That isn't happening here because you're out of contract. Second, because you have some type of huge data deal on a specific service.

• 15:09Martin Lewis?

  I still can't see why you're paying £27 a month. Third, because you've got some type of huge international roaming deal. But again, I still can't see why you're paying £27 a month. Basically, if you're out of contract paying £27 a month, for me, you are paying massively, massively even, over the odds, which is why I'm going to go straight on to step two. Step two, slash what you pay by doing a comparison to find the cheapest SIM that fits your needs. Let me just run through some of the deals that are available now. What I need to explain about the best mobile phone SIM deals. You will generally not get them direct from a provider. If you go to a provider, they will just tell you their cheapest tariffs.

• 15:51Martin Lewis?

  The problem with that is all the discounts and the real savings come from promotional deals on top of the tariffs, but you don't get those direct because if you get them direct, they have to offer them to existing customers who are out of contract. They don't want to do that. So they put all their promotional deals via comparison sites where people who are more price sensitive tend to go. So they try and win the best of both worlds. Existing customers who are just going to lackadaisically renew a contract, they get to give their tariff rates, but those customers who want their business to be fought for, well, they can get the cheaper deals, but only via comparison sites. Now, many of these deals are uber short-lived. They can only last a day or two and it changes all the time. So the deals I'm going to give you, see them as examples rather than recommendations,

• 16:34Martin Lewis?

  and prices differ on different comparison sites depending on the deal that they have. But I'm going to give you the cheapest rates available at the moment for a range of different SIMs. Let's start LeBarre, which has a Vodafone signal. You can get 35 gig of data, unlimited minutes, unlimited of calls and unlimited text, all unlimited calls and text, I won't say that again, for about, well, what actually happens on this one is you pay about £1 for seven months on the cheapest deal. Then you pay about £4 a month for the remaining five months of your contract, average it over a year, and it's £3.22 a month for 35 gig. We could then move up, O2.

• 17:17Martin Lewis?

  Which is about nine pounds a month on a 12 month contract for 45 gig. And then cheaper than that on three signal is ID Mobile currently giving 150 gig. Now, what you actually do is you're paying about 12 quid a month, but you can claim via some comparison sites up to an 80 pound Amazon voucher. If we factor that in as cash, while over the 12 month contract, assuming you would spend that at Amazon anyway, it's equivalent to five pounds 34 pence a month for 150 gig of data, unlimited minutes, unlimited texts. I mean, so 27 pounds a month. What are you getting for your 27 pounds a month? You're free to ditch and switch would be my point.

• 18:03Martin Lewis?

  Now, through the magic of podcast, we can get some reaction to the stuff I was talking about in the show straight away.

• 18:14Martin Lewis?

  Joining me is podcast producer Matt, standing in for PPS this week. Hello, Matt, welcome on board. Hello, thank you for having me. Right, we've got a bit of feedback coming through on mobiles already. I say already, I mean, I'm time shifting because actually that was recorded before this is recorded afterwards. It's probably about 45 minutes since I did that bit. So it's not already, it's later, but for the people listening, it's already. What have you got? Right, okay, question from Stephen. He's asking, what should I do if I don't need data and only make the occasional call? Well, Sims are so cheap at the moment. Ultimately, you just want to, when you go and do in your comparison, put an absolute minimum amount of data and see what the cheapest thing you can find is. I mean, just to put it in context, for a five gig SIM at the moment, you can be paying,

• 18:56Martin Lewis?

  once you factor in the discounts that come in, around two pound 50 a month. So that's going to be about bottom prices. You might be able to get it slightly cheaper if you're looking at one gig or less, but it won't be much cheaper than that. So you just move to the cheapest possible SIM you can find that has unlimited calls, unlimited texts. Do also check out roaming. Roaming, if you're going to go to the European Union, you want one that gives you roam like at home, which means you can use your home package when you're abroad at no additional cost for free.

• 19:25Speaker 04

  Lovely. David has said, just did the info, still in contract with O2, but they did reply with the termination costs.

• 19:31Martin Lewis?

  Okay, so that's important to know. Look, of course, the whole point of step one, texting info to 85075, is to find out whether you are out of contract. Many people will be in contract, but now you know. I don't know whether your particular text told you when your contract ends. If it didn't, that's worth researching and getting it in your diary. Because, you know, you can be paying, as soon as you're out of contract, that's the moment when you should be looking to slash the price that you're paying on your SIM. So if it's not saying that, it's a good moment, while you're thinking about it, to go and check, when does the contract end? When should I be looking to act?

• 20:05Speaker 04

  And a thank you from Martin. He says, I've just switched mobile Vodafone £36 to LaBarra £1.99. So easy. And I've been out of contract since 2024. You now have a regular listener. Thank you.

• 20:17Martin Lewis?

  Oh, I'm delighted. Well, that is a big saving. I had a contract since 2024, so I don't want to say how much you've been overspending in the time, but we're talking over 30 quid a month. So we're getting on to around £400 a year saving, just by a couple of minutes of action, which you can see why I really wanted to do this subject. Anything else? I think I sent you one as well, didn't I?

• 20:36Speaker 04

  You did. Debbie emailed back in Feb. She said, hi, Martin. I swapped my phone to SIM-only with a different provider after watching your show. I had two phones costing £81 a month after my contract was coming to an end. The lowest they could go was £15 each. I got a new SIM-only deal for both at £16 a month, saving £65 a month, which is, she says, a saving of £780 a year.

• 21:00Martin Lewis?

  Now, the reason I wanted you to read that, although the success that we've just had in, we're going from £36 to £2 a month, could well be the same scenario, is because there is a dodgy trick some firms still pay that I want to warn everybody about. It doesn't happen every time, but it does happen. And it's the reason people are often shocked by the huge savings that are reported whenever I talk about cutting the cost of SIMs, whether it's here or on my TV show. And this is what's going on. When many people sign up to a contract, they're often signing up to a contract that includes getting a new handset. So for example, they might say, pay 20 quid upfront as a one-off, and then pay 35 pounds a month,

• 21:41Martin Lewis?

  and your new iPhone is included in the contract that you're getting. So people sign up as it's a way of spreading the cost of getting their new bit of Samsung or iPhone technology as first adopters, and they're very happy. But then, after two years or so, you've paid off your handset, the contract ends, you're out of contract, and the price stays the same. In other words, you were given a price that incorporates you paying off an expensive handset. But when your contract ends, even though you have paid off the expensive handset, you're still paying the same price. So you're still paying for the handset each month,

• 22:25Martin Lewis?

  even though you've paid off the handset. And they do this for as long as they can get away with this. And that's the reason why I get so many huge savings on this, because people are still paying the with-handset cost on their tariff, even though they haven't paid the handset anymore. Now, if I were in charge, this would be banned. If I were in charge, when you got a contract that included a mobile phone handset, then it would include the APR that they're actually charging you and the markup on the handset that they're giving you as well. But I am not in charge. There are no rules against doing this, as long as they're transparent. So we must self-police. You will always be sent an out-of-contract notification.

• 23:08Martin Lewis?

  As soon as you get that, you need to check what you're paying, and it should be dropping if you are paying off a handset. And if you weren't paying off a handset, it's a great opportunity to go and follow these four steps. Well, you actually wouldn't need the first one because you're now out of contract. And follow the remaining three steps to get yourself the cheapest price. Let's go back to my discussion with Casa.

• 23:34Martin Lewis?

  Step three, don't feel locked in because you want to keep your signal. Find a virtual network that will give you the same signal, but for a far cheaper price. Step three is all about the things that people get back to me and say, which is, "Yeah, it's all very well you saying I can get it cheaper elsewhere, but I'm worried about changing my signal. I'm not sure I'll get the same signal if I go to move to a different type of place. It's all going to be a little bit tricky." So my big answer to that is to understand that currently there are only actually four networks in the UK. Vodafone 3, EE and O2. And Vodafone and 3 have just agreed a merger, although they're going to operate as separate brands, but their signal may be merged in time. Now, each one of those networks has its own infrastructure.

• 24:18Martin Lewis?

  So when you're using a mobile phone in the UK, you are using one of those four networks' infrastructure, no matter which network you're actually paying. Because that's because every other network is piggybacking on one of those signals. So my answer to those who don't want to switch signal is, is you can switch firm without switching signals if you restrict your choice to only the piggybacking networks using the same signal as you're currently on. I'll just give you some examples of this. If you are on EE at the moment and you like EE, you could look at Wompie Mobile, EcoTalk, Talk Home, Utility Warehouse and your Co-op.

• 24:59Martin Lewis?

  If you're on O2, you could also look at Gift Gap and Sky Mobile and Tesco Mobile. If you're on 3, you could look at Honest Mobile and ID Mobile and Smarty and Superdrug. If you're on Vodafone, you could look at Asda Mobile and Labara and Talk Mobile and Voxi. So there is a lot of choice and some of the good comparison sites will enable you to limit your search to only the providers using the same signal as the one that you are currently on. So my answer would be to those people who are saying, "I don't want to switch because I want to keep my signal." Well, just look at, keep your search to the piggyback networks using that signal and you may well find there's one a lot cheaper available. Let's go to Ben Katesh. What's your question?

• 25:40Speaker 02

  My question to Martin was that, obviously, like Martin suggested, there are primary mobile network operators and there are virtual mobile network operators, which...

• 25:52Martin Lewis?

  Uh. Which one would be better, uh, you know, in, in terms of, um, in terms of being cheap? Or which one adds more value? Uh, and what are the pros and cons of, uh, both of them? The pros of the virtual network operators tend to be that they're far, far cheaper. If you choose the right one and if you choose the cheapest out there. Also, most of the virtual network operators, not all of them, give you roaming like at home when you're in the European Union, whereas the big networks don't. With the exception of O2. Now, what are the negatives? Never assume that you get the same features if you're sticking on a virtual network. So, Wi-Fi calling, do you get 5G? Those, you may not get them on a virtual network, but it's just a question of choosing your tariff.

• 26:37Martin Lewis?

  Some will, some won't. So what I'm, it's just a warning from me to say, don't assume, okay, I'm shifting from O2 to GifGaff, everything will be identical. It's not, it's a different network. They'll have different prices, they'll offer different services, they might have a different voicemail setup. All of those things will be different. What will be the same is the signal. Now, when I do this, people always say to me, the signal isn't the same, they throttle it for virtual networks. We have tried to do research on that and never found proof that that is actually happening. I'm currently with my team trying to work on how we set up an experiment using virtual networks in different place and do a live test of, of testing the signals in the same place on a virtual network and the main network.

• 27:20Martin Lewis?

  Many people very successfully use virtual networks at a much, much cheaper price. Clearly though, you are the secondary user. I mean, if you are going on a O2 signal, O2, O2 is the primary place for O2 signal, GifGaff, Sky Mobile and Tesco Mobile are secondary, but I get amazing feedback certainly about GifGaff for the service that people get and they tend not to complain about other things. So, in general, I am very, very happy to suggest that you go onto a virtual network. Maybe there are people listening out there now who are on virtual networks. Uh, and let us know how you find it. Have you found any difference between being on a virtual network and one on one of the main four? What worries and concerns do you have about it?

• 28:06Martin Lewis?

  Well, you know, previously I used to have a gift card on on my phone and obviously I found that gift card did not did not have any call holding, if you know what I mean. So when you're on a call and if somebody else calls you, you just won't get it. So hence I switched to three. But then I felt that I was paying around eighteen pounds a month for like one hundred and twenty gigs, which seemed like a lot to me. Well, ID Mobile is, again, so you've identified exactly what I was talking about.

• 28:48Martin Lewis?

  The issue on the virtual networks isn't an issue of them being virtual networks, particularly it's an issue that it's a different network and they might offer a different service. So when you're choosing your network, you have to choose the service that you want. Now, you were on gift card, which uses an O two signal, and you shifted to three, which uses its own signal. So there could well have been a signal difference there because, but I don't think that's about the virtual. I don't think it's a virtual network issue. It's it's which network should I go with issue, which one offers me the services that I want. So if you want the call holding pattern, that's something that you need to check when you're signing up. Does that make sense?

• 29:26Martin Lewis?

  Yes, yes, Martin. Thank you. Thank you so much. But yeah, I mean, absolutely. I don't know what the call holding situation is on ID Mobile. I'm afraid my my mental database isn't that good. But the ID Mobile SIM at the moment that's down to about, you know, six quid a month for a hundred and fifty gig. If you're on three and you're out of contract, well, it's going to be the same signal. You might want to have a look at that one.

• 29:48Martin Lewis?

  Now, we just put the phone down from Venkatesh and after that he emailed Matt. And Matt, you wanted to read to me what he emailed. So Venkatesh emailed me straight after he was on. He said, Thanks for your advice and remind him I pay my credit card in full. In full. Delighted to hear it. Well done. Okay, back to the conversation.

• 30:09Speaker 02

  So what is your final step to slash our mobile costs?

• 30:13Martin Lewis?

  Well, and it's an interesting step because it sounds like it's a technical step, but it isn't. Step four, to keep your number when you do switch, just text PAC, P A C, to 65075 and it may well have some hidden money-saving ability too. If you want to keep your number when you're switching, you text PAC, which stands for porting authorisation code, but you don't text that, you just text PAC to 65075. Your firm will, and what it's supposed to do is send you a porting authorisation code, which you can then send to your new provider to transfer the number over, usually in one working day, but often less. But what's fascinating here is when you do that text,

• 30:57Martin Lewis?

  and some people get the same thing when they do the info text at the beginning to find out whether they're out of contract, many people find their existing phone and their existing network offers them a better deal at that point. It's almost like you're instigating a haggle. And so merely, I mean, if you really wanted to be play this and you could just cut out all the other steps, if you want to stick with your existing provider and text PAC to 65075 and just see if your existing provider, assuming you're out of contract, offers you a cheaper deal, it may well do. And if you want to stick with where you are, it's a very easy way to haggle. I mean, the other way is you go through customer retentions and you ask them for a better deal. So yeah, so the final step, if you want to move your number across, text PAC to 65075, but don't be surprised if your existing network goes,

• 31:43Martin Lewis?

  "Please don't go, please don't go, don't go. We'll give you a much cheaper tariff if you stay." Sorry about the singing.

• 31:52Speaker 02

  Don't. We need some rain for the farmers and the crops, don't we? We've got a couple of success stories from people who use step four, actually. Heather says, "I followed your advice and applied for my PAC code. Within two minutes, EE phoned me asking to stay." There we go. "They cut my bill by £20 a month, all sorted within five minutes."

• 32:11Martin Lewis?

  £240 in five minutes' work, that'll do, won't it?

• 32:13Speaker 02

  That'll do, absolutely.

• 32:14Martin Lewis?

  £40 a year.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  Stephanie's also said, "I was due to upgrade my phone and plan with EE, requested my PAC today, then went on to check my upgrade prices and they had reduced them by £40." Compared to two days ago.

• 32:27Martin Lewis?

  Wow. So if you say that's £40 a month, that's £500 a month saving. I go back to my initial opening premise. If you're paying anything over six quid a month for your mobile phone bill at the moment, and you're out of contract, look at ditching and switching. I'm not saying you should, you might have reasons to stay. I'm saying it's worth looking at ditching and switching.

• 32:48Speaker 02

  Time for your tell us this week, Martin.

• 32:51Martin Lewis?

  Yeah, the tell us, I'm, I'm subtitling it. Kids say the financious things, which Gavin put on Twitter, which I rather like. The question is, have your kids ever given you money advice, serious or silly? If so, what did they say and did they have a point? So I'll start, I've got the Facebook ones, you've got the X ones. Libby says, my daughter is six years old and said, don't worry. I don't know why I'm doing that voice, I'm gonna keep doing that voice.

• 33:14Speaker 02

  Do it.

• 33:14Martin Lewis?

  Let me do my six year old voice. Don't worry, I spent granddad's money instead of my pocket money. She antagonizes her dad by saying she's never going to move out and get a job. She's gonna live at home forever while he works to pay for her. She's also said she doesn't want to get married or have children as it looks like too much hard work. She is savage but hysterical.

• 33:34Martin Lewis?

  What have you got?

• 33:34Speaker 02

  Swiss Bodhi says, yet my youngest introduced me to the concept of girl maths. Basically, if they have cash, it's considered free money. So when they go out in a group, if she pays for someone and they pay her back in cash, that's free money, which she can then spend on anything guilt free.

• 33:52Martin Lewis?

  I have to say, girl maths is quite a big trend that's been on TikTok and elsewhere. And it is all about illogical.

• 33:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:58Martin Lewis?

  You know, I've spent my whole life teaching people how to counter their spending impulses. And girl maths seems to be showing people how to, yeah, listen to their spending impulses and not on some form of financial stability. And it'll come back and bite people in the bum in the end. It's one of those, another one of those classic dangerous trends on TikToks that we shouldn't be supporting, but somehow people think are cool and goes on. I'm sounding like an old granddad, I don't care. Girl maths can be really dangerous. And when we encourage young people in a world of buy now, pay later, who've used to use those adverts like it's a lifestyle choice to borrow and to get yourself in debt, which can crash your credit file and one day may end up stopping you getting your mortgage. Girl maths can be dangerous. Anyway, let's move on to a nicer one that fits the theme of the programme. Anne.

• 34:42Martin Lewis?

  My 16-year-old grandson advised my husband and I to change our mobile contracts. He's after my job. We followed his advice and are now saving about £12 a month. That's it. That is what I want to hear from the youth of today. Well done and 16-year-old grandson.

• 34:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, so there you go. £12 a month. How much is that?

• 34:58Martin Lewis?

  £144.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  £144 for the year.

• 35:00Martin Lewis?

  It'll do, won't it?

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 35:02Martin Lewis?

  Maybe we should give him 10%.

• 35:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. James says, "A couple of years back, my 13-year-old son advised me to buy Nvidia shares. I didn't, but I should have done."

• 35:10Martin Lewis?

  Quite right. I mean, what did he advise you? You didn't buy. Do you remember those as well? Or was that the only other thing you ever said? Yeah, you would have done very well on Nvidia shares. Phil. "We were talking about buying a new house. I told him I needed to save up for it and he said, 'You can use the money in my piggy bank. I don't mind.'" He's six.

• 35:31Speaker 02

  Oh. How much is in there? That's what I want to know.

• 35:33Martin Lewis?

  It's a matter of the fact is he's willing to give his dad all the money he's got to help him out. That's their way of showing love and it's lovely.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Dominic says, "Unrealising a camper van would be very expensive. My five-year-old son suggested I ask Father Christmas so it would be free."

• 35:48Martin Lewis?

  There we go. Sam. "His kid said, 'You always complain you've got no money. Then you go and buy new kitchen utensils that we don't need.'" Yeah, well, okay, I think that's quite right. You know, as I always say, money mantras, do you need it? Can you afford it? Have you checked whether it's available cheaper anywhere else? Maybe your son has actually gone to something there.

• 36:06Speaker 02

  Glad he doesn't think about me in tennis rackets or tennis gear or anything like that.

• 36:11Martin Lewis?

  Is that your impulse spending thing? Is it all on tennis?

• 36:14Speaker 02

  It's kinda, yeah. Paddle's getting into it now.

• 36:16Martin Lewis?

  Okay, so well, I think tennis and paddle will count as the same subset.

• 36:19Speaker 02

  Same thing. Um, yeah. Um, yeah, let's just leave it there, shall we?

• 36:24Martin Lewis?

  Okay. But you're not borrowing for it, though?

• 36:27Speaker 02

  No.

• 36:28Martin Lewis?

  Okay. That's a good start.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  No, I'm borrowing off my future. That's what it is.

• 36:32Martin Lewis?

  That very, oh, I like that phrase. So I tell you what's interesting about that. It's, this is the sentiment. People often think I'm about stopping people spending. My philosophy is always about trying to enable you to live the best possible life that you can live on your finances. Now, if you're in debt, of course, I want you to cut back. I want you to get yourself out of debt because one of the greatest causes of misery are financial problems. But if you're not in debt and there's something you enjoy and you've checked out that you really do need it and will use it, and it is going to give you happiness and you haven't overpaid for it, then I actually wouldn't necessarily berate you for it. But then there is the opportunity cost. Could you, could you more effectively use the money elsewhere? And I think that's probably the one where you come up with a slight issue.

• 37:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so. And Marie, I really like this one, saying, "My son now, 16, has picked up my habit of checking price per 100 grams and working out best value. Also checks for best price and research on all the products that he wants. He is very money savvy."

• 37:28Martin Lewis?

  Well done. It sounds like somebody I would approve of.

• 37:34Speaker 02

  Plenty more of those to come, including your texts as well. Let's read some of those out before we move on to the energy price cap update. "I'd like to thank Martin and his amazing team. Over the past five years, your exclusive LaBarra offers have saved me and my family hundreds. Between the three of us, our total annual mobile bill is under £50. At the end of the LaBarra £1 promotion period, usually between six and nine months, I switch each number to another 30-day SIM. A month later, I switch back to LaBarra and relax for another six to nine months."

• 38:03Martin Lewis?

  Wow, under £50 a year for three mobile phones. That is going some. Well done. I love it.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  Another one saying, this is from Kate, saying, "Good afternoon. I tried info text. Worked as it should. I'm on the 3 network." And here's another one saying, "Hi, Martin Casser. Thought you'd like to see this self-explanatory text. I'll be switching." This is from Annie, saying, "If you end your contract today, your early termination charge will be naught pounds. If you end your contract on another..." This amount will be different. For more info, please go to tescomobile.com

• 38:31Martin Lewis?

  What a badly written text by Tesco. And this is one of the problems. So this service that they have to do is man is comes from Ofcom. But I've noticed a bit of confusion in the language of the text over recent years. And I worry if that's sort of there's some whether it's inadvertent or deliberate confusion marketing by instead of saying you are out of contract. The way it's written, I mean, how if you've got zero cancellation charges today? Could that be different tomorrow? You can't go back into your contract unless you sign up for a new contract. So that sounds like very poor drafting to me, which is why you do need to be slightly, you know, read these carefully. And make sure you know, but if it's got zero cancellation charges, you can cancel with no charges.

• 39:11Martin Lewis?

  And you are therefore free to ditch and switch or to go back to your firm and say, I'm gonna leave you unless you offer me a better deal.

• 39:17Speaker 02

  Just found one more that I think is worth actually talking about. I've just had a text back saying my pack has expired? Question mark, question mark, question mark. That's from Richard in Brighton. Can your pack expire?

• 39:28Martin Lewis?

  Maybe you've asked for one before and you're now asking for it again. And the original one has expired. And try texting them again, see what happens. If not, you're gonna have to call them up. I will have to check that one out. I don't know quite what's going on there.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  You've got an update on the energy price cap too as well, Martin?

• 39:44Martin Lewis?

  Yeah, this is not going to be fun, I'm afraid. So the energy price cap is going down by seven percent on the first of July. So not very long away now, about 11 days away. And that we've known that for about six weeks. Now, the energy price cap dictates the price that two thirds of homes in England, Scotland and Wales pay for their energy bills. Everybody who is on the standard, the default, that you've done nothing, that you've not fixed or your fix ended and you've not acted since. Everybody who's on one of those, you are on a price cap tariff because the price cap is only about standard tariffs and they're the ones that you go to if you don't do anything. Now,

• 40:24Martin Lewis?

  For those homes, it was previously thought that come October, we weren't going to see a rise and it was going to be flat for roughly the rest of the year. Unfortunately, what is happening in the Middle East has changed those predictions. It is now currently, we're expecting to see a rise of 2% to 3% in October, and then up on top of that, another 1% in January, and up on top of that, another 3% next April. Now, the further out you go, the more crystal ball gazing it is. But overall, what we're now currently looking at is a landscape where we're expecting to see the price go down just for the summer months, and people will be raging

• 41:07Martin Lewis?

  out there. It always goes down for the summer and up in winter. It doesn't actually always. It is a subject of wholesale rates, but it is likely to be what happens this year, and we're then going to see it start to rise again in October and over the next year. So, if you're one of those people who sits on the energy price cap and isn't on a fix or on a special tariff, while you may see your price drop by 7% in July, expect to see it start to go up again from October. That's the big message, and I know we've had many questions on that.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, and some more questions coming in. Paul says, could you explain how a Middle East crisis pushes up energy costs virtually immediately, yet when energy prices fall, it takes months for our energy costs to do the same?

• 41:52Martin Lewis?

  I can't, because that doesn't happen. And I often hear that. People always say to me, oh, the prices go up quickly, but they come down slowly. Well, let's be really clear. There are effectively two different sets of pricing models out there. There's the energy price cap, which is set by the regulator OFGEM, and the main change factor there are the underlying wholesale rates that gas and electricity companies pay. So I'm not saying the entire amount you pay is due to wholesale rates, but I'm saying the big delta, the big change that dictates the movement in that tends to come from wholesale rates. The second set of prices are the rate at which new fixed deals are set. So let's

• 42:35Martin Lewis?

  deal with those in turn. The energy price cap has always been a time-lagged tariff.

• 42:43Martin Lewis?

  So it is very slow to react. So we are seeing a drop on the 1st of July because of the average wholesale rates from the middle of February to the middle of May. They were pretty low over that period, but we didn't get a drop in prices immediately. It was not quick, as the questioner suggests. It was slow and we're only going to see that fall come into our prices on the 1st of July. Since that point, wholesale rates have gone up. They haven't gone up that much. They're about 15% higher than when they bottomed out just towards the end of April, when it was at its cheapest. And we're only a third of a way through the assessment period. So for example, if there were to be, you know, things were to be settled

• 43:26Martin Lewis?

  in the Middle East, well, that would probably bring wholesale rates down and the predictions would then drop for October. If it continues to be as volatile as it is, then we might see predictions get even higher because wholesale rates could get even higher. So a lot of this depends on world issues. But the reason the prediction in October is higher is because of what is happening now. So the suggestion that they go up virtually immediately, no, the whole thing I'm talking about is predicting the October price. We know the July price, that's coming down by 7% because of what happened earlier. So there is always a time lag and to be fair, it is the same time lag whether it is going up or down based on wholesale rates. Now, there's big arguments, are the wholesale rates fair? Have we got the gas price linked

• 44:09Martin Lewis?

  in the right way? Is the algorithm that's used for setting the price cap really fair on wholesale rates because we're linking it primarily to European gas prices, should it be done? There are lots of questions on that. We discussed them in past podcasts. But over timing, I have a very robust answer for you. The timing is the same both ways round. Now, let's look at fixed prices. And this is actually very interesting that the timing is different on these two. The new fixed rate deals are offered generally based on the current wholesale rates today. So this is much more instantaneous and possibly slightly what a firm can buy ahead the rates at over the next year. So it's very important to look, therefore, when we're starting

• 44:51Martin Lewis?

  to work out whether you fix or not, at the interaction between the time lag. Fixed prices were cheaper a couple of weeks ago than they are now. We've already started to see some of the very cheapest fixes be pulled from the market since the conflict that has started between Israel and Iran came into being. Those prices have gone up, some of the cheapest fixes have started to disappear. But they're still pretty cheap because they're based on the lowering of wholesale rates that happened, you know, has been happening for the last couple of months. So currently, the cheapest fix on the market is 15% less than the current price cap. And that means it's eight and a half percent less than where the price cap will be in July.

• 45:36Martin Lewis?

  And if the predictions are right, then it's about 10% less than where the price cap will be in October. But if you'd fixed a couple of weeks ago, it would have been even cheaper than it is now. So it's very important to understand those two different timepieces. Basically, if you're on a price cap, then there's a time lag of what's going on in wholesale markets factoring into your price of somewhere between three and six months. If you're looking to get a new fix, then it's much more instantaneous and fix rates are much more volatile than you, obviously, once you fix your fix. But I'm talking about the rate of new fixes because they're based on the underlying wholesale rates at the time.

• 46:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, this sort of feeds into what Theresa was about to ask about her dual energy fix ending on the 9th of September this year. What's the likelihood of a price cap going down in October? It worked out well for me last year. Should I consider their two-year fix now?

• 46:29Martin Lewis?

  Let's just dissect that. What's the likelihood of the price cap going down in October? On current predictions, not very high. We would need to probably see for it to be down quite a significant amount, we'd need to see both the conflicts between Israel and Iran and between Ukraine and Russia, or Russia and Ukraine, I'm not making a political point, would need to see some resolution on those in a positive way that gave more stability to the world. I think before we saw a really big price drop coming in October, you might see a few percent or two down if things changed. But I think for a really big price drop, we'd need to see both of those conflicts reaching some type of positive resolution. So I'm not expecting that to happen. You asked me, should I do a two-year fix now? Here's what you have to understand. If you are on a fix, there are almost certainly

• 47:14Martin Lewis?

  early exit penalties for leaving that fix early. So those early exit penalties tend not to apply in two cases. One, you are within the last 50 days of your tariff. So literally day 49 to when it ends, they can't charge you early termination charges. Number two, many firms, not all of them, will waive early exit penalties if you're taking a fix with them. So if you fix with a different firm, no, you'll pay the early exit penalties. But if you wanted to fix now with your own firm, some will waive those early exit penalties. Some may even let you stack. So they might let you agree a tariff now that will happen once your current fix ends in September. But you're only going

• 47:57Martin Lewis?

  to get those with your existing firm. So you might want to check it. But I would always go on to a whole of market comparison site first to see how cheap your existing firm's fixes compared to what's on the whole of the market. And again, whether exit penalty should be factored in for you does depend on how big your bill are. You know, if you're paying £100 to get out of a gas and electricity contract early, because you can get it much cheaper, £100 is a big portion of your bill if your total bill's £1,200 a year. It's not a big portion of your bill if your total bill's £5,000 a year. And therefore, if you're on a £5,000 a year bill and you can find a much cheaper fix than you currently have, and you'd have to pay early exit penalties to do it, in some cases, it can be worth paying those early exit penalties because your bill's so big that those early exit penalties are only a small percentage of what you're actually paying.

• 48:46Martin Lewis?

  I've got a couple more of your energy questions about standing charges and fixing to answer later on. What's next?

• 48:55Martin Lewis?

  What's next is play the theme tune. We've got to put this boy's, boy, this man here, baptism of fire.

• 49:06Martin Lewis?

  That was me calling you a boy because I can see you in the monitor I've got and you're all young and handsome and I'm just jealous. Right, so let's make the question tougher, Cassie, are you ready?

• 49:15Speaker 02

  I like the colour of your shirt, I was complimenting that earlier, so yeah, anyway.

• 49:19Martin Lewis?

  Thank you.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  Just trying to get an easy question.

• 49:21Martin Lewis?

  So, you've bought a pair of headphones in store for £199.99, write that down.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 49:27Martin Lewis?

  You get them home, they're good and they work well. The next day, the store launches a sale, which it not previously said it was going to do, and now sells the same headphones for £129.99. Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, what are your legal rights? Three option, multiple choice. A, as the reduction is within 14 days of purchase, you have a right on request to force the store to give you the difference between the new and the existing price. B, while you have no right to demand a reduction, in practice you've 14 days to notify the store

• 50:08Martin Lewis?

  of return and up to 14 further days to get the item back to them, at which point if the sale is still on, you can then rebuy at the new price, or you could rebuy earlier and just wait for the refund to come. C, you have no legal rights, so you have to accept you've paid too much.

• 50:25Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 50:26Martin Lewis?

  You understand, so it's a reduction, the next day you didn't know about it, either you can force them to give you the difference back, you can force them to give you a full refund and then you can rebuy, or you don't have any rights. What do you think?

• 50:37Speaker 02

  Well, my initial thoughts are option D, which is buy them again. I'm not going to do option D, obviously, but like...

• 50:47Martin Lewis?

  No, what you're going to say, buy them again?

• 50:48Speaker 02

  Buy them again at the cheaper price of £129.99.

• 50:51Martin Lewis?

  Yeah.

• 50:52Speaker 02

  Hold on to the more expensive one, because they're no doubt going to go back up to that price, and then in about four, five weeks' time, sell them for about £150 quid on...

• 51:04Martin Lewis?

  On eBay? I like the cut of your jib, but this is a question about legal rights.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, okay, and I'm not very good at...

• 51:10Martin Lewis?

  And we don't know what the price would be elsewhere and you won't necessarily get the full retail price on eBay and there'll be a cost associated in sending it to you, but we'll move on. Simple question, what are your legal rights in this case?

• 51:22Speaker 02

  I don't know. If I buy something, then I'm kind of like entering into a contract. That's one of the few things I've learned from listening to you. You know, that's always stuck with me. So I kind of feel like I'm under no obligation. They are definitely under no obligation to set to give me the refund back, I would say.

• 51:40Martin Lewis?

  So we're wiping out option A then, are we?

• 51:42Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 51:43Martin Lewis?

  So what about option B? You have 14 days to notify the store of return and a further 14 days to get it back. So you can return it at the price you bought.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  See, that I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm comfortable doing that. I'm kind of a risky person in the sense that I'll do that and then I'll also buy it cheaper. And then there's the danger that I'll end up with two pairs.

• 52:02Martin Lewis?

  This is about your legal rights, remember?

• 52:04Speaker 02

  Legal rights.

• 52:05Martin Lewis?

  I'm going to have to push you to an answer. I think I can see we've only got a couple of minutes left.

• 52:09Speaker 02

  Let's go with B. Let's go with B.

• 52:11Martin Lewis?

  You're going with B?

• 52:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, actually, see, I've got nothing. I've just bought it.

• 52:14Martin Lewis?

  I need a final answer from you.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  Let's go with, let's go with B.

• 52:18Martin Lewis?

  You're going with B?

• 52:19Speaker 02

  Let's go with B.

• 52:19Martin Lewis?

  So your B, that you can't, you've got, you're gonna, you've got a right to send it back to them as long as you notify them within 14 days and then return it 14 days later?

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 52:27Martin Lewis?

  Well, you are first of all, quite right. There is no right under the Consumer Rights Act or any other part of English law to say that you can force them to give you the difference back because they've sold it at a different price the next day to the price that you bought it at. They can sell it at whatever price you like. Option B, though, you are right if you had bought it online.

• 52:45Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 52:46Martin Lewis?

  If you had bought it online, you have an absolute right to return items that are not personalised or perishable. And you have 14 days to notify them of return after delivery and 14 days after that to send it back. So if you'd bought it online, what you could do is you could have rebought it at the £129.99 price and send back the original purchase online to get the difference. But you didn't. So I need an uh, uh, please. If you buy goods in store and they launch a sale the next day, you have absolutely no rights whatsoever apart from to swear and stamp your feet.

• 53:21Speaker 02

  Which I certainly won't do because I'm a polite boy, boy man like that. Martin, it's been lovely. Thank you so much.

• 53:27Martin Lewis?

  Cheers, mate. Thank you. Okay, back to producer Matt now. I think there's a couple more energy questions have come in that you want to ask me. So what have you got? We have firstly, Mark. He says, any idea when the standing charge? We'll start to come back down. Surely we've covered those bankruptcies by now. Yeah, I think it's a bit of a miss that most of the standing charges to cover the bankruptcies that happened during the energy crash when, what was it, 28, 29 energy retailers went bust and had their customers had to be ported over to other firms. I mean, that was only a relatively small part of people's bills and the standing charge anyway. I mean, interestingly, we talked at the start of the show about the warm home discount and the cost of the warm home discount,

• 54:08Martin Lewis?

  it comes from energy providers and therefore the standing charge will go up slightly on the back of expanding the warm home discount. But then there are other things that are happening at the moment in terms of the way they price it with providers that will bring it down. So I think, all in all, the different changes being made to the standing charge at the moment, I'm still waiting. I'm going to make a guess here, I need to be honest with everybody listening, that we're still waiting for the full consultation response. But it's looking at probably seven or eight quid a year, it going up on the back of that, everything else remaining equal. But everything else won't remain equal because the standing charge is a function of general prices. So if the price cap is going up, we'll see the standing charge generally go up. And if the price cap is coming down, it will come down as well alongside the unit rates. But that wasn't

• 54:53Martin Lewis?

  your question. So let me answer your question. Look, people will long know I have campaigned against what I call the moral hazard of standing charges. The fact that you have this over £300 a year cost on your bill, even if you use no gas and electricity just for the having the facility of having gas and electricity, is a disincentive, especially for your lower users to cut their bills. And I think is a problem. Now, I lobbied hard on this. We got off Gem to do a consultation on it. The problem was, many charities, understandably, who look after vulnerable people on low incomes who need to use a lot of energy, so many disabled people, many people with medical conditions, said the problem with bringing the standing charge

• 55:38Martin Lewis?

  down is because it has to be a zero-sum game. You will increase the unit rate, the amount that you pay for each unit of gas and electricity you use. And for vulnerable high users, that will be punitive. Now, of course, what should have happened is OFGEM should have brought the standing charge down and the government should have put in specific support for those vulnerable high users, but the market wasn't joined up. OFGEM and the government don't act in concert, and that didn't happen. So OFGEM therefore said, "We can't bring the standing charge down for those reasons." During my submission to the consultation on standing charges, I put in a different option, because my assumption was, I mean, I was saying I wanted standing charges to be dropped, but if that didn't happen, I suggested a different way of doing it. And

• 56:22Martin Lewis?

  that was by having a low or no standing charge price cap option. So you would have two price caps. One, the same as now, with standing charges above £300 and the unit rates as they are, and another with a no or very low standing charge, but that that has higher unit rates. Now, that would favour lower users. Very low users would be better off on no standing charges, even though they were paying higher rates for each unit of gas and electricity they used. And actually, you would very easily be able to work out a mathematical cut-off. My guess is it would be somewhere around, if you have usage over £1,200 a year, you'd be better off on the standard price cap. Under £1,200 a year,

• 57:03Martin Lewis?

  you'd be better off on the no standing charge price cap. That was adopted by OFGEM and put out the consultation. One of my problems with what it had adopted is it said that you would have to opt in to the no standing charge price cap. My problem with that is the price cap is meant to be a default for the people who never switch and never act. So making them opt into it would still leave many vulnerable lower users on the wrong price cap. So I proposed a default system based on your previous year's bills. And that's where we are right now. It is likely and hopeful, but sometime this winter or next spring at the latest, we will have the dual price caps, one no standing charge,

• 57:45Martin Lewis?

  one with a standing charge. But exactly how and when is, we wait to see OFGEM's decision on the back of the consultation responses on that. So that is where we are. I'm still hopeful this winter, while standing charges will remain the same for most, there will at least be a price cap option with much lower or no standing charges. I hope I managed to make sense of that. I think so. What's next? Thanks, Matt. I appreciate you being here. I like the feedback. Tommy has also asked, "My fix is due to end in early August." I'm now inside the 49 day window. Am I best to refix now or nearer the time?

• 58:26Martin Lewis?

  I wish you'd asked me that question two weeks ago because then prices are very cheap. Well, we're in this period now where I explained earlier that fix rates moved pretty quickly and they've got higher in the last couple of weeks on the back of the, or the last week and a half on the back of the Israel-Iran confrontation that's going on, which of course, because of that area of the world, supplies a lot of the world's oil, has put oil prices up and there's a knock on to gas prices. What I can't tell you is whether things will get better or worse because I don't know what's going to happen on the global political situation.

• 59:01Martin Lewis?

  What I would do therefore is I would go and do a comparison now. If you can save money fixing right now with no exit penalties, no brainer, do it. If you can't, I would wait until August unless you're very risk averse and are very worried that you would see bill shock if all the cheap fixes started to disappear by then, in which case fix now anyway. And hopefully that answers the age old question, to paraphrase the bard, to fix or not to fix? And I think that cheesy comment is a good place to stop.

• 59:33Martin Lewis?

  That's it for this week. If you've enjoyed it, please tell your friends you've been listening to the Martin Lewis podcast. We tend to put a new episode out every Thursday, so why not subscribe to keep up to date and your pockets will be pleased with you. And if you've not enjoyed it and you've been listening all this way through and you're still here now, well, you've only got yourself to blame, haven't you?

• 1:00:09Speaker 05

  Martin Lewis is the founder of MoneySavingExpert.com. But of course, other consumer and price comparison websites are available. You can get in touch with Martin's podcast production team by emailing [email protected]. The offers and rates mentioned in the podcast are correct at the time of recording. However, if you are listening on demand, it's worth double checking as details can date. Remember to subscribe on BBC Sounds and leave us a review however you listen.

• 1:00:44Speaker 02

  BBC Sounds. Music. Radio. Podcasts.

• 1:00:50Speaker 02

  In Our Time is a world-class seminar every week. Why was Jeremy a lonely snail? What were lines doing in York in the third century? I'm Misha Glennie and every week I'm joined by expert guests to explore the ideas that shape our world.

• 1:01:05Speaker 03

  It's one of the first times really that you consistently see someone painting teeth. I know that sounds bonkers.

• 1:01:09Speaker 04

  If I was going to define mathematics, I would say it's the study of structure.

• 1:01:13Speaker 02

  In Our Time. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Tea or coffee? Love a cup of tea.