Robert Bruce (Radio Edit)

Greg Jenner is joined in medieval Scotland by Dr Iain MacInnes and comedian Marjolein Robertson to learn all about Scottish independence hero and king Robert Bruce. Robert grew up in a time of political turmoil, with multiple noblemen competing to be king of Scots – including his own grandfather. But after Edward I of England declared himself overlord of Scotland, Robert began a fight not just to be king, but to overthrow English control too. This episode charts the twists and turns of Robert’s life, taking in his adventures in Ireland, his quarrels with the papacy, his unlikely alliance with the English crown, and his epic military victories. This is a radio edit of the original podcast episode. For the full-length version, please look further back in the feed. Hosted by: Greg Jenner Research by: Anna McCully Stewart Written by: Anna McCully Stewart, Emmie Rose Price-Goodfellow, Emma Nagouse, and Greg Jenner Produced by: Emmie Rose Price-Goodfellow and Greg Jenner Audio Producer: Steve Hankey Production Coordinator: Ben Hollands Senior Producer: Emma Nagouse Executive Editor: James Cook

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:52Greg Jenner?

  Hello and welcome to You're Dead to Me, the Radio 4 comedy podcast that takes history seriously. My name is Greg Jenner, I'm a public historian, author and broadcaster. And today, we're donning our kilts and daubing our faces blue to learn all about medieval Scottish king, Robert Bruce. Robert the Bruce to some, but Robert Bruce to us. And to help us, we have two very special comrades in arms. In history corner, he's a senior lecturer in the Centre for History at the University of the Highlands and Islands. He's an expert on medieval Scottish political and military history, and the author of Scotland's Second War of Independence, 1332 to 1357. It's Dr Ian McInnes, welcome Ian.

• 2:26Speaker 05

  Thanks Greg, thanks for having me, great to be here.

• 2:28Greg Jenner?

  And in comedy corner, she's a comedian, actor and storyteller. She was a finalist at the BBC New Comedy Awards. You might have seen her at Edinburgh with her sellout shows, or caught her on Breaking the News, or Rosie Jones's disability comedy extravaganza, it's Mary Elaine Robertson, welcome to the show, Mary Elaine.

• 2:42Speaker 06

  Hi, thank you so much for having me, I'm excited to learn.

• 2:45Greg Jenner?

  I have to ask, do you like history?

• 2:47Speaker 06

  Yes, well, and no. I suppose, I have some beef with history. I studied archaeology, so I'm like, well, we have evidence, you have written lies.

• 2:57Greg Jenner?

  Oh my word. Ian, just, let's keep it, you know, keep it calm. What do you know about Robert Bruce? Better known to many probably as Robert the Bruce.

• 3:08Speaker 06

  Yes, I'm a Shetlander, so Shetland was very, very busy at this point in time, fighting with Norway, and we really weren't so clued up with what you were doing down in Scotland and England. So I know you were having a lot of trouble between the two of you, but we are already very busy up north. Yes, so we became Scotland, part of Scotland in 1469, officially signed over in 1471, in lieu of a payment of a dowry. We're quite bitter about it, because the dowry was meant to be 30,000 florins worth. So Denmark and Norway suggested the dowry would be Orkney, and Scotland reckoned that Orkney was worth 22,000 florins. So they're like, can you bump it up by 8,000 florins? And they threw in the

• 3:53Speaker 06

  whole of Shetland, like what a third of their cost.

• 3:56Greg Jenner?

  So, what do you know?

• 4:04Greg Jenner?

  Okay, this is the So What Do You Know? This is where I have a go at guessing what you, our lovely listener, might know about today's subject. If you are from Scotland, then Robert Bruce is a household name, national hero for winning medieval Scotland's independence from the English. Now, outside of Scotland, he's not quite as famous as William Wallace, but how did an outlaw manage to become king of Scots? And did Robbie Bruce really get tactical advice from the animal kingdom? Let's find out. Normally, we'd start with his childhood, Ian, but for some important reasons, we're going to start with his grandfather, who was Robert Bruce number five.

• 4:40Speaker 05

  So, yeah, so if we start in the 13th century, the Bruce's hold lands in Scotland and in England. But Robert the Fifth, he also has a distant claim to the throne of Scotland, as his mother was the great granddaughter of King David the First. And according to the Bruce's, Robert the Fifth was promised the throne around 1238 by the then childless King Alexander the Second. And so, in part because of this, Robert the Fifth is known as Robert the Competitor. However, even if he was promised it, and it seems unlikely, Alexander the Second does produce a son who reigns successfully until he falls off his horse and dies in 1286. And unfortunately, Alexander the Third is predeceased by all of his children and is

• 5:22Speaker 05

  succeeded then by a young three-year-old granddaughter, Margaret. She dies in Orkney on her way to Scotland. With Margaret's death, there is no clear successor to the Scottish throne, and in that context, the 70-year-old Robert the Fifth resurrects his claim to the Scottish throne.

• 5:38Greg Jenner?

  Does he get the throne, Ian? Because it sounds like no one else is around.

• 5:41Speaker 05

  Because of the fact that there is no obvious successor, everyone in their ante throws their hat into the ring. And so, to avoid Scotland slipping into civil war, the Scottish guardians, who are controlling Scotland in lieu of having a king, look outside for help, and they look to Edward the First of England. Edward does think about pursuing his own claim to the Scottish throne, but instead, he says, "Well, okay, I'll make the decision for you, but all the candidates have to acknowledge me as the superior king over Scotland." And so, what follows is what's called the Great Cause, which is a legal process. And in that process, Robert the Fifth is unsuccessful.

• 6:17Greg Jenner?

  Oh, no.

• 6:18Speaker 05

  Yes, indeed. Instead, the throne goes to his rival, John Bealeal.

• 6:23Greg Jenner?

  Let's now pivot to our Robert Bruce. He's number seven. What do you think he's into?

• 6:29Speaker 06

  Back in the late 1200s, early 1300s, just avoiding plagues and poxies. I don't know, and just trying really hard to stay alive.

• 6:40Greg Jenner?

  What level of status do you think he's got?

• 6:42Speaker 06

  I don't know what it's like doing in Scotland, but in Shetland, if you get too big for your boots, you soon get ripped to pieces. And modesty reigns supreme. Like, if you were a prince, you wouldn't really speak about it, you know? People call you prince, like, shut up, no, no.

• 6:57Greg Jenner?

  Ian, what's the family history?

• 7:00Speaker 05

  So he's certainly part of the Scottish elite. His father is an Earl, the Earl of Carrick. The Bruce family are originally from Normandy and came to England in the 12th century. And so, yes, Robert would be raised to be a lord, to be a future Earl. There is the possibility, too, that Robert spent time within the household of King Edward I of England.

• 7:19Greg Jenner?

  But we haven't mentioned his dad, Robert Bruce, number six. Doesn't he want to be king?

• 7:24Speaker 05

  While Robert V passes his claim to the Scottish throne on to his son, Robert VI, Robert VI passes his claim on to his eldum, on to his son, Robert VII. So Robert VI retains the claim to be King of Scots, but can live off his estates in England and not have to give homage to the new law, the new king, sorry, who is his enemy, John Beale. Robert VII does, he has to go and give homage, and he will ultimately retain that claim to the Scottish throne.

• 7:53Speaker 06

  Right now, Robert the Bruce isn't winning any favour from me. He sounds like they're just a family who are like, "We will be friends with whoever in power will let us keep our land." When's he gonna redeem himself?

• 8:05Greg Jenner?

  Oh, well, this is the question, Mary, then. When is he gonna become the hero? It's a fair question. I also have to ask, why are we not calling him Robert the Bruce? Where has "the" gone?

• 8:15Speaker 05

  It's probably just a corruption of the "de Bruce" name that they brought from France. It is an anachronism. It is just Robert Bruce ultimately.

• 8:23Greg Jenner?

  Right. Robbie VII has reached adulthood in the early 1290s, but this point presumably is where Scotland gets some peace and stability, because the great cause is over. The decision's been made, John Bailey will rule. So all happy now, Ian?

• 8:37Speaker 05

  In part for a little bit. So yes, King John is on the throne, he has an heir to succeed him. Things look reasonably straightforward for Scotland, but the bargain that Edward the First struck during the Great Cause, when he extracted that oath from the competitors, he calls that in. And so Scotland faces a range of demands that Scottish kings never faced before.

• 8:59Greg Jenner?

  Right.

• 8:59Speaker 05

  So there's demands for taxation, demands to appear English Parliament's orders for military service in France, which the Scots don't want to do. So John is rather undermined at every turn by Edward the First. But the Scots ultimately make a deal with the King of France, who Edward the First has been at war with recently. So Edward the First doesn't take this well. He starts to gather an army to invade Scotland. The Scots get their revenge enforced by raiding Northern England. But Edward the First then takes the opportunity to use that as an excuse to invade a Saxon barrack. He wins a battle at Dunbar and he then proceeds to take the submissions of all Scots who come to him, including King John himself, who is stripped of his crown and led off into captivity.

• 9:43Speaker 05

  And Edward the First also takes away every sign of Scottish royalty, including documents, including the Scottish Crown and the Stone of School on which Scottish kings are inaugurated. The Bruce's are not part of the Scottish army which loses at Dunbar. Robert the Seventh may actually have been part of Edward the First's forces.

• 10:05Speaker 05

  And when Robert the Sixth asks Edward the First for the crown, Edward is meant to have said, have we nothing better to do than win kingdoms for you?

• 10:13Speaker 06

  The Bruce's were fighting on Edward's side.

• 10:16Speaker 05

  Yes, it's practical for them to do so.

• 10:19Speaker 06

  For us to now hold Robert the Bruce as a hero, they must have had one amazing PR company. What is this shift? This is hidden from us. If you ask at the start what I didn't say about Robert the Bruce, Claire, that was too obvious. It's like, oh yeah, he's a hero for Scotland and our freedom, isn't he? Is he?

• 10:40Greg Jenner?

  But now, Ian, I can hear the Braveheart music. I can, I can see the face paint. Here comes William Wallace, here comes Robert the Bruce. Freedom, right?

• 10:48Speaker 05

  Um, yes, although no, no blue paint and no Australian accent. But yes, Robert the Seventh does join in a series of rebellions which break out across Scotland in 1297. So in the north, you have Andrew Murray rising in rebellion, pledging influence from the Highlands. In the south, you've got William Wallace undertaking similar activity. Bruce does come out in rebellion himself, but may have submitted relatively quickly.

• 11:12Greg Jenner?

  So it's quite confusing so far because our fearless freedom fighter has sort of fought for the English, fought against the English, and then he's sort of back with the English again, is that right?

• 11:21Speaker 05

  He submits there with the first about 1301, 1302, yes. He does surrender and basically looks to try and protect himself.

• 11:29Speaker 06

  I'm trying to work out if he knows where he's from at this point. Because does he know which side he's meant to be on yet?

• 11:40Speaker 06

  Maybe he's just very confused.

• 11:44Speaker 05

  I suppose that the point is that they don't necessarily feel Scottish or English or any of those things at this point because they have a kind of cross-border mentality.

• 11:53Greg Jenner?

  Maryline, how do you think King Edward of England tries to woo Robert over to stay permanently on his team? What do you think he does?

• 12:00Speaker 06

  Oh, he gaslights him.

• 12:04Speaker 06

  I don't know how one would be wooed.

• 12:06Greg Jenner?

  He did the classic medieval thing of offering Robert a young wife to marry. And unfortunately, because it's medieval history, I have to honk my problematic marriage klaxon. This young wife is way too young. She is 13. Who is, who is the young wife that, because he's already had a wife, Robert the Bruce? We haven't mentioned this.

• 12:23Speaker 06

  What?

• 12:23Greg Jenner?

  He's already.

• 12:24Speaker 06

  Stop.

• 12:25Greg Jenner?

  He's had a wife already, right?

• 12:26Speaker 06

  I hate him more and more.

• 12:28Speaker 05

  No, no, it's not, it's not that bad. So, so yes, Robert, Robert has had a wife, Isobel of Ma.

• 12:34Speaker 06

  Why did she go?

• 12:35Speaker 05

  She, she dies in childbirth. She, she dies giving birth to his daughter, Marjorie. So yeah, that's one of the other things he has to think about, that he, he is a widow, he doesn't have a son. He again has to think about his future. So when he's making these decisions about which side to support, he has to think about that too, because who's going to inherit his lands if he dies?

• 12:52Speaker 06

  Oh, not his daughter, apparently.

• 12:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, possibly, but perhaps not preferably.

• 12:57Speaker 06

  I'm so surprised she's not called Roberta.

• 13:00Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:01Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:01Greg Jenner?

  It's true, actually. Yeah. The young, the very young child that he marries, offered by the King of England, is Elizabeth. Is that right?

• 13:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, so Elizabeth de Bourgh is the daughter of the powerful Earl of Ulster, who is also one of Edward the First's chief supporters in Ireland. And yes, she's 13 at the time of the marriage. Robert is 28.

• 13:21Speaker 06

  Can you imagine how disgusted Robert's daughter is? They're probably the same age as their bride.

• 13:28Greg Jenner?

  OK, so Robert now marries his second wife, who's not even an adult, Elizabeth de Bourgh, and now becomes Scotland's king?

• 13:36Speaker 05

  No, not yet, because Edward, Edward doesn't want there to be another Scottish king. Robert, having surrendered a couple of years before, thinks he should have been rewarded by Edward by now. And so he perhaps starts thinking again, well, actually, maybe I should be king. There are two possibilities ultimately. It's either going to be Robert Bruce or it's going to be John Common of Badnuck. And it's kind of between the two of them potentially as to who might be the Scottish king in the future.

• 14:04Greg Jenner?

  And these two rivals meet in a church. It's called the Church of the Grey Friars in Dumfries. And it's in February 1306. God is watching. What do you think Robert does in this meeting?

• 14:14Speaker 06

  Do they know they're rivals?

• 14:16Greg Jenner?

  They do know they're rivals.

• 14:17Speaker 06

  In a Kirk?

• 14:18Greg Jenner?

  Yeah.

• 14:19Speaker 06

  The House of God.

• 14:20Greg Jenner?

  It is.

• 14:21Speaker 06

  What do they do?

• 14:22Greg Jenner?

  What does Robert do?

• 14:23Speaker 06

  Oh, no.

• 14:24Speaker 05

  So, yes.

• 14:26Speaker 06

  Can he get any lower? What does he do in the church?

• 14:30Speaker 05

  So, yes, John Common ends up dead. Bruce kills him. And his, or else he wounds him and his attendants then come and finish him off.

• 14:39Speaker 06

  In a church.

• 14:41Speaker 05

  Unsurprisingly, the English make a lot of this and say that, yes, it's premeditated. Bruce slew Common. Scottish propaganda would suggest otherwise and the idea that it's an argument that there is, that are accusations of betrayal. In fact, that Common had actually betrayed Robert's planning to Edward the First. And so he kills him in a fit of anger.

• 15:00Speaker 06

  I'm sorry, but it's a bit rich for Robert de Bruce to be like, hey, you're on Edward's side. How dare you? That's my thing.

• 15:13Greg Jenner?

  But also, Robert is married to the goddaughter of Edward, so he's, by marriage, he's linked to the English king, and yet, he's now, he now wants to be king again. So, is he breaking the marriage? Is he, is that a betrayal of sorts?

• 15:29Speaker 05

  It's certainly a betrayal of Edward the First, yes, and Edward takes it very personally.

• 15:34Greg Jenner?

  Okay.

• 15:35Speaker 05

  Edward then summons an army to go to Scotland. Bruce challenges it when it's based at Perth, but he doesn't go about things well, and the English essentially turn it into an ambush and defeat him. And one of his brothers is captured and is summarily executed. His wife, his daughter, his sisters are captured and are imprisoned. Two of the Bruce women, including one of his sisters, is put in a cage which is suspended from the walls of a Scottish castle.

• 16:05Greg Jenner?

  Oh no.

• 16:06Speaker 05

  He takes Bruce's rebellion, Bruce's betrayal, very personally.

• 16:08Greg Jenner?

  I guess we've skipped a really important point here. Robert the Bruce is the king of Scotland? Like, he, he sort of, I don't know quite how he's managed it, because he's just murdered John Common. Has he apologised? Has he? How does he, you know, how does he end up king?

• 16:22Speaker 05

  After the murder, Bruce acts very quickly. So, he sends out messages trying to control the narrative, obviously trying to put across the case that he wasn't the instigator, that he was betrayed, and so it was justified. He also goes to the Bishop of Glasgow to seek absolution from the bishop for the murder, and Bishop Wishart gives him that absolution. He actually forgives him, although the Pope, when he hears about this, does not, and excommunicates Robert altogether. So, in the aftermath of that, though, he goes to Scun, he is inaugurated, and he leaves that as King Robert of Scotland.

• 16:59Greg Jenner?

  He makes himself king, he gets excommunicated, he loses a major battle against Edward, his sisters and his wife are put in cages, his brother is killed. What do you think he does next, Mary Lane?

• 17:11Speaker 06

  Sides of Edward again?

• 17:15Speaker 06

  If I was Robert the Bruce, which I'm thankful I'm not, and I don't think we're that alike. But I think he just goes on a total revenge mission against Edward with all its might.

• 17:26Greg Jenner?

  He does the opposite, he runs away.

• 17:33Greg Jenner?

  Do you want to sort of walk us through his escape plan?

• 17:36Speaker 05

  He flees into the west, possibly to the western Highlands of Ireland and/or to Ireland. We don't know for definite.

• 17:43Greg Jenner?

  And Mary Lane, there's a very famous story, I don't know if you've heard, but at one point, Robert is sort of, you know, hiding in a cave and then finds some inspiration from an animal. Do you know what animal it is?

• 17:55Speaker 06

  I do know this story. This was based off the true story of Charlotte's Web.

• 18:00Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, a lot more violent, but yeah.

• 18:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, he was sitting in a cave and he was ready to give up and he sees a spider and a spider is making its web in the cave and the spider's web fails. And he's like, there, see, we're the same. But then the spider attempts again and he's like, oh, and then the web fails again, but then the spider goes again and again. And he watches this determination of the spider and he's like, if the spider can go again, so can I. But is that true? Did that actually happen? Did he sit in a cave and watch a spider?

• 18:31Speaker 05

  Probably not, no.

• 18:34Speaker 06

  That's not true.

• 18:35Speaker 05

  It's a nice story, but no, it's probably one of these, one of these things that enters into the kind of myth around Robert.

• 18:42Greg Jenner?

  He's ready to come back. So what does that mean, Ian? What is the comeback? The Hollywood comeback?

• 18:47Speaker 05

  He plans to come back to Scotland. He sends two of his brothers, Thomas and Alexander, as an advance party to Scotland, but they are captured by his enemies and executed. So he only has one brother left. But despite that, he still sails for Scotland, makes landfall and is able to raise rebellion in the southwest of Scotland. And he wins a couple of victories relatively early on at Glentruel and at Loudon Hill.

• 19:08Greg Jenner?

  We've got a new enemy to introduce to the story, Mary Lane.

• 19:10Speaker 06

  No.

• 19:11Greg Jenner?

  Edward the First comes up to face Robert again, you know, for the 19th time and he dies, right, Ian? And so in comes his son. Edward the Second.

• 19:21Speaker 05

  He dies just shy of the border and he orders his son to continue his campaign into Scotland. But Edward the Second only spends about two weeks in Scotland and then swans off home to start planning for his coronation. From around 1310 onwards, Robert starts raiding into northern England to put pressure on Edward the Second. But as time goes on and the Scots repeat this over a longer period of time, they actually start to extract protection money and blackmail out of these communities.

• 19:47Greg Jenner?

  That's a lovely sheep you've got there. It'd be a shame if something happened to it.

• 19:53Greg Jenner?

  I mean, Robert's also taking castles. He's taking English castles. He's doing it quite an interesting way. He's swimming across the moats. They're using fold-up ladders, which is quite good. There's also one very fun technique they use, Mary Lane. It's involving the cows that they've stolen. What do you think that is?

• 20:07Speaker 06

  I feel like this is a play on what they did in Troy. But you can't hide an army in a cow, but you could hide in explosives. Do they send in exploding cows?

• 20:18Greg Jenner?

  I love the idea of exploding cows. It's very Monty Python. You're kind of right with the Trojan thing a little bit. They basically disguise themselves as cows, which I think we have to call camouflage, right? It's, you're basically sneaking in, sneaking into the castle as a herd of cows, just going, "Nothing to see here, moo." And then, yeah.

• 20:40Speaker 06

  They're really milking it.

• 20:44Speaker 05

  In fairness to the English, though, they do do it at dusk, so it's relatively dark and the English aren't expecting...

• 20:49Speaker 06

  No one's expecting the army to have these rest as cows.

• 20:55Speaker 05

  It's not really as scary as they just throw a cloak over themselves and just kind of like shimmy forward, but...

• 20:59Greg Jenner?

  Yeah, but I mean, come on, they're doing the moo sound. Of course they are. You have to. You'd have to commit to it, wouldn't you? Okay, so we're now 1314 and I think, I think a lot of listeners will probably know that, know that year because of the Battle of Bannockburn. It's a sort of very iconic, famous military victory for Bruce. And Ian, why is Bannockburn a big win for him? What does he do that's, that's so impressive?

• 21:22Speaker 05

  It is a, the first real large-scale Scottish battlefield victory over an English army and it'll probably be the last one for a while as well. It's also... A victory against an English king in the field, which doesn't happen very often. It is a massive victory. You can perhaps say that it's overstated in terms of what it achieves in the in the long term, because the war continues, Edward the Second doesn't give up. But what the battle does do is give the Scots, give Bruce a lot of English prisoners, and he's able to use them to exchange for various Scottish captives, including his wife, including his daughter, his sisters, and he's finally able to welcome them back to Scotland. And with the return of his wife, of course, he is able to then look to the future and

• 22:05Speaker 05

  start trying to produce sons, which of course he has yet to do.

• 22:08Greg Jenner?

  Meanwhile, Robert Bruce has been excommunicated by the Pope a second time. Hooray!

• 22:12Speaker 06

  Why? What did he do this time?

• 22:15Speaker 05

  I think that the the expansion of the war doesn't go down well. The papacy, let's face it, is all about trying to foment peace in Europe. And so Robert gets excommunicated again, yes, for extending the war into Ireland.

• 22:26Greg Jenner?

  Okay, but then in thirteen twenty, we have the Declaration of Our Broth, which is a big deal.

• 22:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, so but by thirteen twenty, not only has has Bruce himself been excommunicated, but yes, Scotland as a whole is put under a papal interdict. So so no religious ceremonies can take place, services can take place at all, no baptisms, no burials. That's what that censure ensures.

• 22:46Greg Jenner?

  It's a big deal, right?

• 22:46Speaker 05

  It is. And what the papacy allows is for Scots to break their oath to Robert the First and so to reject him. And and the idea there would be perhaps that he would be overthrown and replaced. But but none of this effectively works, in large part because because the Scottish clergy on the whole is supportive of Bruce and supportive of keeping Scotland independent and keeping the Scottish Church independent from the English Church. Three letters are constructed to be sent to the papacy, only one of which survives today, and that is the the famous Declaration of Our Broth. And it emphasizes that the Scots are the victims, it emphasizes that the English are the ones who started the war and that they invaded peace-loving Scotland, and it emphasizes

• 23:30Speaker 05

  very clearly that the Scots support Bruce as the sole and legitimate king.

• 23:35Greg Jenner?

  He's got this legitimate heir. In fact, he's got two. He's got John and David, who are twins. So he's got twin boys, an heir and a spare, and he's got three daughters, Margaret, Matilda and Elizabeth. So five kids. He's doing well in that regard. By the mid 1320s or so, Robert's not in good health, which I think is important to know. There's a sort of quote saying that he can't move apart from his tongue. But things are also going bad in England because Edward II gets chucked off the throne and then murdered by his wife.

• 24:01Speaker 05

  And her lover.

• 24:04Greg Jenner?

  And her lover. So Isabella, Queen of England, sort of basically does in and puts Edward III on the throne. Does Robert do a deal with the new English king, Edward III? Or Isabella even, the mum?

• 24:18Speaker 05

  Yes, with Isabella. So Edward III is not yet of age to rule in his own right, and so Isabella is essentially regent for our son. So yes, a series of agreements are made that are known collectively as the Treaties of Edinburgh and Northampton, and this arranges for a final peace between Scotland and England in 1328. Scotland and England would form a mutual alliance.

• 24:39Greg Jenner?

  This is it. This is peace. This is Robert, King of Scotland. That's a big, big win. How do you think he celebrated, Mary Lane?

• 24:46Speaker 06

  I feel like if we're going to go by a pattern of Robert's behaviour, which is always the opposite of what you should do, I think he thinks, when everything's laid on a plate and good, he's like, hey, Edward III is so young, he's just a baby. Let's invade England. Is that what he does?

• 25:08Greg Jenner?

  On this occasion, he doesn't. He does the classic thing of a child wedding, which Ian has already alluded to. So he marries off the four-year-old son, David, to the seven-year-old sister of King Edward III.

• 25:19Speaker 06

  Not John, that's clever.

• 25:21Greg Jenner?

  No.

• 25:21Speaker 06

  So he doesn't marry off the eldest?

• 25:24Speaker 05

  He's dead by this point, so David's the only one left.

• 25:28Greg Jenner?

  Okay, okay. Sorry.

• 25:30Speaker 06

  It's not funny. It's not funny.

• 25:32Greg Jenner?

  It's not funny, but it is funny. Robert, we've already said was in poor health. When did he die, Ian?

• 25:38Speaker 05

  So he dies eventually on the 7th of June 1329, aged 54. We don't really know what killed him. His Italian doctor apparently complained of him eating too many eels, but I don't think that's what killed him.

• 25:50Speaker 06

  That's only gonna make you stronger, eating eels. You never get told to do that when you're a child. Finish your eels, and that'll give you good long arms.

• 25:58Greg Jenner?

  Okay, so we don't know what killed him, but we think, well, I think he died of an unknown illness. There you go, classic pun. Sorry. Right, moving on. The Nuance Window!

• 26:13Greg Jenner?

  So it's time now for the Nuance Window. This is the part of the show where Mary Elaine and I relax with a cup of tea and a scone, or should that be schoon, for two minutes while Ian tells us something we need to know about Robert. Bruce, my stopwatch is ready, take it away, Ian.

• 26:28Speaker 05

  Robert is an impressive figure. His is a Hollywood story, rising from the depths of defeat in 1306 to make himself king, moulding a country from the wartone state in which it had sunk into an organised and functioning medieval kingdom again. No one would argue that. However, the popular imagination has grown around the belief that everything ended with the peace of 1328 and with Robert's death in 1329. And this isn't the case, unfortunately. While the king does all he can, he nonetheless ends up leaving Scotland to his five-year-old heir David. A long minority is likely to follow, and minorities are insecure periods at the best of times, and these are not the best of times. There are those, as the Sols conspiracy showed, who continue to not support Robert.

• 27:11Speaker 05

  They're biding their time and waiting to see what happens next. In England, there's Edward III, who hates the peace treaties agreed in his name and is itching to exert his power over his mother and his kingdom. And there are individuals and families who are forced into exile and to abandon their claims to lands in Scotland because they refuse to support Robert. And they are also out there waiting for their chance. And these disinherited lords have a figurehead in Edward Beryll, son of King John of Scotland, and an alternative claimant to the throne. And so all of this is looming over the horizon. We look forward from Robert's death in 1329. And ultimately, his death is not the end of things. Balear and the Disinherited invade Scotland in 1332 and recommence the Bruce Balear Civil

• 27:53Speaker 05

  War that Robert the First had arguably started himself when he murdered John Common in Dumfries. This extends a year later, as the English join the conflict and so the Wars of Independence recommence once more and continue for a further 25 years before the rights and independence that Robert the First thought he'd won are arguably won for good. And even then, Scotland is not what it was in 1329. Parts of the borders are lost for decades. Berwick-upon-Tweed, some periods in the 15th century apart, is lost forever. And while this is not all Robert's fault, he certainly contributed to the context in which these events ultimately occurred, and he set the scene for the years of conflict that followed.

• 28:32Greg Jenner?

  I'd just like to say a huge thank you to our guests. In History Corner, we had the incredible Dr Ian McInnes from the University of the Highlands and Islands. Thank you, Ian.

• 28:39Speaker 05

  Many thanks, Greg, and thank you, Marianne. It's been lots of fun.

• 28:42Greg Jenner?

  It has been fun. And in Comedy Corner, we had the magnificent Mary Elaine Robertson. Thank you, Mary Elaine.

• 28:47Speaker 06

  Thank you. This is amazing. I learnt a lot and had fun.

• 28:53Greg Jenner?

  Thank you very much. And to you, lovely listener, join me next time as we do battle with another historical heavyweight. But for now, I'm off to go and consult a spider for some career advice. Bye.

• 29:12Speaker 07

  Hi, I'm Christy Young, and I'm happy to tell you that Young Again, my podcast for BBC Radio 4, is back with more conversations with people who fascinate me. In the new series, we'll hear from the comedian Miranda Hart. Part of being human is that we are vulnerable. The writer Irvine Welsh. It's quite a thing to be eight years old and then suddenly to have a criminal record. And we'll begin with a conversation with the actor Minnie Driver. What do you wish you'd understood about the movie business? It's all ephemera. None of it is real. Subscribe to Young Again on BBC Sounds.

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