Pod Insights The School of Greatness 848 The Soulful Art of Persuasion with Jason Harris About this episode NEVER BE CLOSING. A lot of books about selling encourage you to act like someone you’re not. They tell you to say the other person’s name. Copy their body language. Become a salesman. But what if the key to selling is accepting who you are? What if everything weird about you is what will make you successful? Stop thinking of business as transactional. Instead, be generous. Play the long game. And be kind. On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk about the soulful art of persuasion with an expert in marketing: Jason Harris. Jason Harris is the CEO of the award-winning creative agency Mekanism and the co-founder of the Creative Alliance. Harris works closely with brands through a blend of soul and science to create provocative campaigns that engage audiences. Iconic brands include Peloton, Ben & Jerry’s, MillerCoors, HBO, and the United Nations. Under his leadership, Mekanism was named to Ad Age’s Agency A-list, twice to their Best Places to Work, and to the Creativity 50. Harris has been named in the Top 10 Most Influential Social Impact Leaders, as well as the 4A’s list of “100 People Who Make Advertising Great.” His methods are studied in cases at Harvard Business School. Jason has put together four principles of persuasion that can help transform you into a master influencer. The bullet points are easy to understand and might even surprise you. So get ready to learn the soulful art of persuasion on Episode 848. Some Questions I Ask: What’s the most fun you’ve had working on a brand? (10:00) How can you be empathetic when people are attacking you? (31:00) What’s something people can do today to make them more influential (43:00) What are you three truths? (46:00) In This Episode You Will Learn: About Jason’s company Mekanism (5:00) Why you should never be closing (12:30) How vulnerability is key to power (16:00) The Four Core Principles of persuasion (19:00) Why it’s important to master different skills (38:00) If you enjoyed this episode, check out the video, show notes and more at http://www.lewishowes.com/848 and follow at instagram.com/lewishowes Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Lewis Howes? This is episode number 848 with Jason Harris.
0:06 Lewis Howes? Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.
0:31 Lewis Howes? Roosevelt once said, "People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care." This episode is all about the soulful art of persuasion and how to persuade people to buy into you, to buy into your beliefs, your vision, your skill set, anything you want to do to persuade people. There are certain ways to do it that comes across authentically and in a way that makes people know how much you care about them. Not tricks, not some type of strategy that's trying to fool people over to persuade them, but really how to show people how much you care in order to move forward in the life of your dreams.
1:16 Lewis Howes? And Jason Harris is the CEO of the award-winning creative agency Mechanism and the co-founder of the Creative Alliance. He works closely with brands through a blend of soul and science to create provocative campaigns that engage audiences. Iconic brands like Peloton, Ben & Jerry's, Miller Coors, HBO, and the United Nations. He's been named in the top 10 most influential social impact leaders, as well as the 4 As list of 100 people who make advertising great. His methods are studied in cases at Harvard Business School. And his new book, "The Soulful Art of Persuasion: The 11 Habits That Will Make Anyone a Master Influencer," is out right now.
2:01 Lewis Howes? And in this episode, we talk about why playing the long game is more important than trying to close the deal right now. And he's got a simple philosophy on how to close deals. The value of leaning into your quirks and your imperfections and why your imperfections will help you stand out from the rest. The power of storytelling and how the mind processes stories versus facts. Why you should always choose collaboration over competition. And how empathy is a key component of persuasion. And so many other keys to persuading people into anything. Super excited about this one. Make sure to share with your friends. LewisHowes.com/848. And without further ado, let's dive into this episode all about the powerful,
2:45 Lewis Howes? soulful art of persuasion with Jason Harris.
2:53 Lewis Howes? So this book, all about soulful art of persuasion. I'm excited about this.
2:57 Speaker 01 Yeah. It's like, um, it's sort of like, did you ever read?
3:01 Lewis Howes? Influence.
3:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, How to Win Friends and?
3:03 Lewis Howes? Yeah, it's great. This is an updated version.
3:05 Speaker 01 It's updated version that's for the modern age.
3:08 Lewis Howes? I love it.
3:08 Speaker 01 Cause I went back and read all those books.
3:10 Lewis Howes? And you're like, what's missing?
3:11 Speaker 01 Well, they're like, it's almost like act a certain way. Like, don't be yourself.
3:17 Lewis Howes? It's like fake.
3:18 Speaker 01 It's like fake. And it's like, get them talking, be interested in the things the other person's interested in.
3:23 Lewis Howes? Yes.
3:23 Speaker 01 Versus leaning into who you are and your quirks.
3:25 Lewis Howes? It's like a shtick.
3:26 Speaker 01 It's a shtick. It's, it's like, this is the way you're successful, is parroting other people. And this, this is obviously the opposite of that, which is you gotta know who you are, lean into your true self, and that's how you're successful, you know? It's your character and who you are.
3:41 Lewis Howes? I love it, man.
3:42 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah. So it's that. And then the soulful part, which I'll talk about, which you'll relate to. I was re-watching your like, big idea intro video about what's your big idea?
3:53 Lewis Howes? Uh huh.
3:54 Speaker 01 And it is about the soulful piece, that pillar is all about, what are your skills? Like, everyone has two or three skills that they're really good at. And then what are the things that you care about? Your purpose? And you try to like, line those two things up. And that's what being social is all about, you know? It's like if you can line those two things up, you know, basically you take like a sheet of paper. You write down your three skills and three things that you care about, like your purpose. And you figure out how to put those together and that's how you can like give back into the world.
4:25 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
4:26 Speaker 01 That's like what I did with the It's on Us campaign, you know, go to the White House. I know how to advertise, there's a cause there.
4:33 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
4:33 Speaker 01 It's like pencils of promise.
4:34 Lewis Howes? That's it.
4:35 Speaker 01 You bring in your summit back to where you were from, you know, it's, it's putting those skills to
4:39 Lewis Howes? Sure.
4:39 Speaker 01 what you care about.
4:40 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
4:40 Speaker 01 So a lot of the books about that. Them being generous person, being an empathetic person, like understanding other people.
4:48 Lewis Howes? I love it, man.
4:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's cool. And so these are all the habits and I get into like how to develop those habits.
4:54 Lewis Howes? I love it.
4:54 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's cool.
4:55 Lewis Howes? We've got a Jason Harris in the house. Welcome to School of Greatness, man.
4:58 Speaker 01 Thank you.
4:58 Lewis Howes? Pumped that you're here.
4:59 Speaker 01 Thanks for having me.
5:00 Lewis Howes? You just gave a brief overview, which we'll just leave that in.
5:03 Speaker 01 Oh, okay. Sunny LA.
5:04 Lewis Howes? We met back in, uh, 2010, 11, 12.
5:07 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:08 Lewis Howes? When we, where was the first meeting? Was it through Brandon or was it through?
5:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, through Brandon.
5:12 Lewis Howes? Was it trying to do something? I can't remember.
5:14 Speaker 01 I don't even remember. Maybe it was like getting you to market something for us or something like that, like.
5:20 Lewis Howes? You're always asking people to do stuff for you.
5:21 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know.
5:24 Lewis Howes? I can't remember. Maybe I met Brandon somewhere.
5:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:26 Lewis Howes? Uh, through Tim Ferriss or one of his events or something like that.
5:29 Speaker 01 Uh, the Komodo event?
5:30 Lewis Howes? Maybe, maybe.
5:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
5:31 Lewis Howes? Was he there?
5:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, he was there.
5:32 Lewis Howes? Were you there?
5:33 Speaker 01 No, he went instead of me.
5:34 Lewis Howes? He went, that's where I met him.
5:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:36 Lewis Howes? And we got connected and I had to learn about your guys' company.
5:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:39 Lewis Howes? Uh, Mechanism and you guys do, tell, tell us what you do specifically at Mechanism.
5:45 Speaker 01 So we're a creative ad agency and so we work with brands to figure out what they're going to stand for in the world. And then create the marketing materials and messaging, ads, social media, do media planning, buying, basically put their message, develop and put their message out into the world.
6:01 Lewis Howes? So you'll, you'll find the directors, you'll script the commercials or the, the video assets, whatever it may be.
6:07 Speaker 01 Yep, yep.
6:07 Lewis Howes? And do everything from a concept to idea to launching it to promotion, marketing, everything.
6:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's like a, it's like an assembly line, you know? It starts with a strategy, what is the brand going to stand for? How's a brand like Peloton fit into the fitness world? How are they different to the creative of what's the concept? What, what's the ad going to look like? Then to making it, like you said, and then pushing it out to the world.
6:29 Lewis Howes? Marketing it.
6:29 Speaker 01 And marketing it and then tracking it and then repeating it.
6:32 Lewis Howes? Is that a four step, five step process? What is that?
6:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, five or six.
6:37 Lewis Howes? So
6:37 Speaker 01 I kind of trailed off at the end.
6:40 Lewis Howes? So a brand like Peloton.
6:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:42 Lewis Howes? Is it public their their numbers of like what they're looking to?
6:45 Speaker 01 Probably not public, but.
6:47 Lewis Howes? But the multi billion dollar.
6:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, they're multi, multi billion dollar valuation. Um, yeah, definitely.
6:52 Lewis Howes? And how, where would they be without an agency like you guys helping them with? All that marketing, the launch of their messaging, the commercials that I see on TV, all that stuff.
7:04 Speaker 01 Well, I think, you know, we were certainly part of helping them craft. The brand, making the brand feel sophisticated, making the brand, uh, consistent over time. But, you know, really they, they just had a incredible product.
7:18 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
7:18 Speaker 01 And the, the thing that is great about Peloton is they can come out with a bike or a treadmill or a digital app. It's all based around the community and the community is, you know, there's leaderboards. The community through social is super supportive. And so focusing on that community, they can just come out with multiple, multiple products. So that's really what they focused on.
7:38 Lewis Howes? Community.
7:38 Speaker 01 The community and what we do is make the brand. We up the brand through production value, storytelling. And so we just sort of complement what they, what they built, but I mean, they just cracked, cracked the code.
7:50 Lewis Howes? Crushed it.
7:50 Speaker 01 It's about community and it's about working out from your home.
7:54 Lewis Howes? It's amazing.
7:54 Speaker 01 It's on demand workouts. I mean, they just killed it.
7:57 Lewis Howes? It's amazing.
7:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:58 Lewis Howes? What's been the biggest challenge, uh, from a marketer advertiser standpoint? Since you started the business, what's the brand that you had the hardest time working with? Coming up with like this process for?
8:10 Speaker 01 The hardest brand to do that for? Trying to think of, of a brand that I worked with in the past. Cause you know, I can't name any of my current clients.
8:19 Lewis Howes? Gotcha.
8:20 Speaker 01 That's not, that's not, that's not cool.
8:21 Lewis Howes? Gotcha. Yeah, yeah, the past, the past. Maybe, maybe one that was challenging, but then you figured out like, oh, this was the hook and it ended up working out.
8:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:29 Lewis Howes? Maybe it's a current brand too. That was like, man, this was really challenging to figure out how we're gonna launch this message in the world.
8:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:35 Lewis Howes? But then it was like a big success when you did.
8:37 Speaker 01 Well, I would say we work with, uh, Charles Schwab. So we do Charles Schwab ads, which is broker firms and they're.
8:44 Lewis Howes? It's hard to do.
8:44 Speaker 01 You're trying to switch. It's all about switching from.
8:47 Lewis Howes? Find the best firm and who's the lowest fees and the best quality.
8:50 Speaker 01 Yeah. And so the team, and we've been working with them for a while. But what really sort of catapulted, uh, a lot of their success is the team cracked the idea of coming up with, instead of talking about what Schwab is. Talk about the other guy. And so they came up with this character Carl, who is like, sort of a lot of the opposite values of this book. He's like not trustworthy. He's just trying to close a deal. He's not in it for the long term. He's overcharging. And this guy Carl was the character and it was the push off of the opposite of Charles Schwab. And so that sort of unlock, which is a unique idea because you usually think about putting the brand first.
9:31 Lewis Howes? Not talking about the other brands.
9:33 Speaker 01 Not talking about the other brands, but this was personifying, sort of like what Apple, Apple Mac did, you know, those ads, the Apple PC ads.
9:41 Lewis Howes? AT&T, can you hear me now?
9:42 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
9:43 Lewis Howes? The other guys came here.
9:44 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly.
9:45 Lewis Howes? State Farm is actually doing that right now, kind of where it's like, the State Farm agent is there and then it's like, or you've got your grandmother who's like the insurance agent that you're trying to get ahold of. And it's like, hey Billy.
9:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That can be effective. That worked really well for them.
10:00 Lewis Howes? That's cool. Man, what's been the most fun you've had working on a brand? Obviously, they're all fun because you.
10:07 Speaker 01 We just did the launch of MedMen, the cannabis company. And I think just being able to be part of that story and tell that story of how cannabis used to be, you know, George Washington grew it on his farm and then.
10:23 Lewis Howes? President.
10:24 Speaker 01 Yeah, the president grew it on his farm. And then we went through, you know, this period that we're coming out of now, where it was, it wasn't accepted. You got thrown in jail for carrying a little bit of it. Meanwhile, you can like get prescription drugs, go nuts with those, drink alcohol, all these other things when, when cannabis is, you know, a lot, a lot less, proven to be a lot less of, of an issue in society. And now we told that whole story and talked about it being the new normal, where now it's becoming legalized in every state slowly over time. But cannabis is, is here to stay and it helps. There's a lot of health and wellness benefits.
11:03 Speaker 01 I think just being able to tell that story in a really interesting way with that diorama look, I think that's been, we're really proud of that.
11:10 Lewis Howes? That's cool, man. This new book that you have is called The Soulful Art of Persuasion, The Eleven Habits That Will Make Anyone A Master Influencer. And we were talking a little bit before, about how you were talking about the other traditional books on influence and persuasion, like how to win friends and influence people. But you said there, those are the books that would teach these kind of like tactics?
11:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
11:32 Lewis Howes? What was wrong with those types of strategies or tactics versus kind of these 11 habits that you have here?
11:38 Speaker 01 So, you know, books like How to Sell, all the old Dale Carnegie stuff from the 1929, 1930s, which are still perennial sellers. That was created in an age of selling and pitching that was much different than the age we live in now. You know, we really live in an age of distrust, where you don't know if it's, you know, there's fake news, there's phishing scams. It's hard to trust Google and Facebook anymore, you know?
12:05 Lewis Howes? Sure. You never know who's taking your privacy or whatever, yeah.
12:08 Speaker 01 Who's taking your privacy. And so, we live in a different time and back then, it was much more, those lessons are much more about how to friend people by letting them talk, act like you're interested in the things they're interested in, getting to-
12:24 Lewis Howes? Keep nodding at them.
12:24 Speaker 01 Keep nodding. Say their name 12 times.
12:26 Lewis Howes? Right.
12:27 Speaker 01 Everyone loves their name. Say their name 12 times.
12:29 Lewis Howes? Give them a gift.
12:30 Speaker 01 Get them, yeah, yeah, get them to, yeah, exactly, yeah.
12:33 Lewis Howes? The law of reciprocity.
12:34 Speaker 01 Exactly. Get them to a yes really quickly. And then I talk a lot about in this book that, you know, I have a chapter called Never Be Closing.
12:42 Lewis Howes? Huh.
12:43 Speaker 01 And those-
12:43 Lewis Howes? Not ABC?
12:44 Speaker 01 That's right. So it's the opposite of-
12:45 Lewis Howes? NBC.
12:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. So the, oh yeah, NBCD. So it's the Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross idea of, you know, get them, it's all transactional. Just get the sale, get the sale, get the sale. And Never Be Closing philosophy is about playing the long game, building relationships over time, understanding that that's what creates value. That's where you're successful. That's where you win. You don't win by checking off deal, deal, deal. It's about long-term relationships and-
13:11 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
13:12 Speaker 01 Playing the long game is, is how everyone should be thinking.
13:15 Lewis Howes? I like that.
13:15 Speaker 01 Thinking Never Be Closing. It's not about the close.
13:18 Lewis Howes? So true.
13:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's about the long, long-term value of a relationship.
13:21 Lewis Howes? I feel like that's all I've done, because at the beginning of my kind of journey, which was 10, 11 years ago, I didn't have anything to offer. I was broke and I had nothing to offer and I remember being like, I could really get something from everyone right now.
13:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:35 Lewis Howes? But why would they give me something when I have no value to give them?
13:38 Speaker 01 Right.
13:38 Lewis Howes? So I started saying, okay, how can I be the champion of everyone's network?
13:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:42 Lewis Howes? And just match them with someone that could really be beneficial to them.
13:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:45 Lewis Howes? If someone needed to hire a sales rep or a marketing person or whatever it was, I was just trying to find people for other people's needs.
13:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:52 Lewis Howes? And I just continued to add that value and that became the value that I could add to people. And over time, they were like, how can I help you back? Like, this has been amazing for me. Like, you introduced me to this person, you helped me here. And I was just like, I don't need anything right now. And I would always just kind of delay the ask.
14:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:09 Lewis Howes? Until I had a book or something really meaningful that I wanted to, I guess, close on.
14:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:14 Lewis Howes? But the more that I think we do what you say, which is just like delay the ask and don't try to close all the time and just how can you give and give and give? I think that's, you guys do a good job with that too.
14:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. So what you hit on is that idea of generosity, which is sort of another idea there, being generous.
14:32 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
14:33 Speaker 01 And one of the habits is like habitually giving something away at every, every interactions. Whether it's a piece of advice, it's a connection. You know, don't hold those connections, like give them away freely. Um, it could be, you know, when you have something simple like a book or a story that you read that you like, send it to someone, you know? You don't just post it for everyone to read. You, you send it to someone on a one-on-one basis. And just building, think about just habitually giving things away. It pays off with compound interest. You don't know how. And you're not doing it so that one day you're gonna sell a grip load of books.
15:10 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
15:10 Speaker 01 You know, you're doing it because it becomes a habit and it becomes part of your character. And then, you know, you don't know how, but you know that that's gonna turn into, you know, business success, personal growth.
15:21 Lewis Howes? Right.
15:21 Speaker 01 And so that's another one of the sort of principles in the book.
15:25 Lewis Howes? There's 11 habits to becoming a master influencer, right?
15:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:28 Lewis Howes? And persuading people, is that what it is to?
15:30 Speaker 01 It's all about persuasion.
15:31 Lewis Howes? To buy into your vision, your dream, your products, your company, anything, right?
15:36 Speaker 01 That's right.
15:37 Lewis Howes? Into you.
15:37 Speaker 01 Into you. And, and, and the idea is that we're all, persuasion is sort of a loaded word, you know? But we're all persuading all day long.
15:45 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
15:46 Speaker 01 I mean, you're persuading.
15:47 Lewis Howes? I call it enrollment.
15:48 Speaker 01 Enrollment, yeah.
15:49 Lewis Howes? We're either enrolling people into our vision or into our requests or they're enrolling us out of it.
15:55 Speaker 01 That's right, yeah. And it's simple things like. You're convincing your girlfriend where to go on vacation.
16:01 Lewis Howes? Exactly, where we're gonna go to for dinner.
16:03 Speaker 01 Where are you gonna go for dinner? So all day long, you're persuading your boss to give you a raise, or a company to hire you, or someone to publish your book. Like, all day long, there's micro instances of persuasion. And this is really just about building a personal character and habits to allow enrollment to be more natural and freer. And it's also about being yourself and finding a purpose, because that's what gravitates people towards you, is really knowing yourself, leaning into your quirks, being able to be vulnerable. I remember when we did the, we had you at the White House for the It's On Us campaign.
16:43 Lewis Howes? It was crazy. I stood up in front of everyone.
16:46 Speaker 01 You stood up and told the story, and the whole place was just like in awe that, you know, a macho dude could be that vulnerable to that audience. And it opens everyone else up. And unless you were really comfortable, knew yourself, knew where you were coming from, you wouldn't have the power to do that, you know, which you were able to do.
17:06 Lewis Howes? Yeah, for context, people listening, I was, wasn't Joe Biden was there or something?
17:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, we did a campaign with Joe Biden, called It's On Us, which was to end sexual assault on college campuses. And we brought you and a bunch of folks.
17:22 Lewis Howes? There's probably a couple hundred people in the room.
17:23 Speaker 01 Couple hundred people to meet.
17:24 Lewis Howes? At the White House.
17:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, Joe Biden's talking, yeah.
17:27 Lewis Howes? And I, and someone said, hey, we're gonna ask you guys to like, make a request on how you're gonna support this campaign. And so different people stood up, and I felt called in the moment to stand up and share a story for a minute or two about being sexually abused myself, and how I didn't think other people should suffer with this, or go through this personally, because of the trauma it creates, and what I was gonna stand up for. So, yeah, you've gotta be really confident in yourself, and know yourself, like you said.
17:54 Speaker 01 And be able to be vulnerable. Be able to not be perfect. Like, we all have flaws, we all have issues, we all have things we're trying to overcome and accomplish, wherever we came from, whatever our background. Leading into those gives you power, you know, not trying to push those down and suppress them. Leading into being vulnerable and things that you're going through and being able to talk about it creates power.
18:19 Lewis Howes? And we were talking about stuff beforehand, which we won't go into here because it's not public information. But your ability to be vulnerable in the middle of things in your life right now is powerful and allows you to connect with me and Chase, who was just connecting with us as well.
18:32 Speaker 01 That's right. Yeah, exactly.
18:33 Lewis Howes? That's what it's about.
18:33 Speaker 01 Yep.
18:34 Lewis Howes? Now, you've got these 11 habits and there's kind of four core.
18:38 Speaker 01 Principles.
18:39 Lewis Howes? Principles, and then there's, there's kind of sub-principles around that.
18:42 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
18:42 Lewis Howes? Is that right?
18:42 Speaker 01 That's right.
18:43 Lewis Howes? So the first one is original. What does that mean? To be original?
18:47 Speaker 01 So that's really about, yeah, being an original, you know, it's that Oscar Wilde quote, be yourself, everyone else has taken. And it's, it's sort of a few habits around how to lean into your authentic self.
19:00 Lewis Howes? Yep.
19:00 Speaker 01 And find your truth. And, you know, one of them is the persuasive power of storytelling and really understanding what drives you, how to tell your story. And so there's sort of some workshops in here about like how to do that and how to pull out your story.
19:16 Lewis Howes? How to tell better stories.
19:17 Speaker 01 How to tell better stories and really understanding what your story is and what you stand for. And that's the part about being original.
19:23 Lewis Howes? That's interesting. It's, it's an art to learn how to tell stories.
19:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:26 Lewis Howes? It can be very challenging for people. I find it very challenging for me telling stories.
19:31 Speaker 01 Well, it's kind of your job, isn't it?
19:32 Lewis Howes? It is, but it's still challenging. It's still challenging.
19:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:35 Lewis Howes? For me, I'm good at telling other people's stories.
19:37 Speaker 01 Right.
19:37 Lewis Howes? But I'm not good at like coming up with stories on my own.
19:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
19:40 Lewis Howes? I'm good at like telling their story.
19:42 Speaker 01 Right, right.
19:43 Lewis Howes? Which I guess is still stories, but um, someone told me one time, you know, facts tell, stories sell. And so if you're a guy or a girl or a person who's got a lot of facts when you're talking to someone, it's not going to sell them or persuade them as much as if you tell a story.
19:58 Speaker 01 That's right. There's this, I go into it in the book, but there's a psychologist, Jonathan Haidt, who said, the mind is a story processor, not a logic processor. And it's really about that facts and arguments kind of go in one ear and out the other, like stats and numbers and data. It might be important, but stories really matter. When, you know, Martin Luther King is talking about, he has a dream. You know, that one day his four children will be judged by the content of their character and not the color of their skin. He's telling a story, he's telling a dream. He's not talking about socio-economic numbers and this, what this population has, this population doesn't have, or the unfair balance.
20:41 Speaker 01 He's, he's making a really big proclamation and he's telling a story, a dream he had. And that, that's what we remember, you know, that's the power of storytelling, um, to always think about it that way.
20:52 Lewis Howes? Okay, we got the power of storytelling.
20:54 Speaker 01 Power of storytelling.
20:55 Lewis Howes? You got, you said never be closing, that's part of being original. Because a lot of people are always selling something, right? They're trying to get the, the sale as opposed to giving and outing value constantly.
21:04 Speaker 01 It's just transaction.
21:05 Lewis Howes? A lot of people.
21:06 Speaker 01 It's like check, check, check, check. And when you're transaction-based, things come and go. And part of never be closing is also looking at when you, you know, philosophy of like, when you hear no, it's just no for now. You know, it's not, no, it's not over. Like, we, I mean, even in work, we have, we'll have clients, we won't win the pitch. You stay in that relationship.
21:28 Lewis Howes? Yeah, maybe three, five years later, they come back around.
21:30 Speaker 01 Six months later, they come back around.
21:32 Lewis Howes? Six months.
21:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
21:32 Lewis Howes? They didn't have a good experience and then.
21:34 Speaker 01 Five, who knows, five years. I mean, Brendan just won a piece of business that we had pitched. Uh, he wanted yesterday, though we pitched two years ago.
21:41 Lewis Howes? Really?
21:42 Speaker 01 So I stayed in touch with the, with the client. All of a sudden that someone made a mistake and he was right there.
21:48 Lewis Howes? There you go.
21:48 Speaker 01 And he picked it up. So that's part of that philosophy is, is, it's switching your viewpoint.
21:53 Lewis Howes? And you say another habit is to turn and face the strange. What does that mean?
21:57 Speaker 01 So Turn and Face the Strange is all about my idol, David Bowie. And so I learned, I learned about, um, this concept of being original really from David Bowie. And David Bowie, obviously he was a musician and when he started, he, his label wanted him to do folk songs like Bob Dylan. And he was David Robert Jones and. No, those albums like tanked.
22:24 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
22:24 Speaker 01 No one heard of him. Music was like somebody else. It wasn't him. And so he quit, left the label, went to like a Buddhist monastery, studied mime of all things, you know, strange dude. He started an experimental arts lab, came back, reincarnated as David Bowie, created these stories, Ziggy Stardust, The Thin White Duke, different albums, and leaned into his, you know, he wasn't afraid to fly his freak flag.
22:55 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm.
22:56 Speaker 01 Was he man or woman? Was he homosexual, heterosexual? You didn't really know. But that was him, you know, that was him was stirring things up and being himself. And now he's, you know, he became one of the best selling artists of all time.
23:09 Lewis Howes? Wow.
23:10 Speaker 01 By leaning into authenticity and what he stood for. And so that's why.
23:15 Lewis Howes? Being strange.
23:16 Speaker 01 Being strange.
23:17 Lewis Howes? Whatever you're.
23:17 Speaker 01 Turn and face is strange. Whatever your quirks are.
23:19 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
23:19 Speaker 01 Lean into your quirks. Like, don't try to be what someone else wants you to be. Don't do what the label asks. Do what's inside of you.
23:26 Lewis Howes? Well, the people that stand out and become more of who they are, the ones that benefit the most in the future.
23:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:32 Lewis Howes? If you're just trying to be like everyone else, or just trying to fit in in a certain way. Yeah, you're not really making a mark on the world. You're not making a big impact. It's the ones that are willing to be strange and accepted. That's, that's the key.
23:42 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:43 Lewis Howes? I love the show Glee for that reason.
23:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
23:46 Lewis Howes? It was like, I don't know if you ever watched.
23:47 Speaker 01 I watched Glee, yeah.
23:48 Lewis Howes? For me, it was one of my favorite shows. It's all about like the weirdos.
23:51 Speaker 01 I saw the Glee concert, dude.
23:52 Lewis Howes? No way.
23:53 Speaker 01 I did. I saw the Glee concert.
23:54 Lewis Howes? I'm jealous.
23:55 Speaker 01 Yeah, I saw the Glee concert.
23:56 Lewis Howes? I didn't even know there was a concert. Amazing. All the, all the cast was there.
24:00 Speaker 01 Uh, yeah, the cast, the cast performed, yeah.
24:03 Lewis Howes? Oh, my God. I'm so jealous.
24:04 Speaker 01 It was awesome.
24:05 Lewis Howes? That's amazing. But those were all like the, kind of the weird outcasts, I guess, of the school. But they're the ones that like, when they finally accepted who they were.
24:13 Speaker 01 That's when they took off.
24:15 Lewis Howes? They shined.
24:15 Speaker 01 Exactly.
24:16 Lewis Howes? So you've got to learn to accept who you are.
24:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:18 Lewis Howes? Even if it goes against everyone else, it should go against everyone else.
24:22 Speaker 01 That's right.
24:22 Lewis Howes? But that's when you're gonna shine the most.
24:24 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
24:24 Lewis Howes? Uh, you talk about being generous. This is another key principle in persuasion.
24:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:29 Lewis Howes? This is kind of like the old law of reciprocity, like when you give.
24:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:33 Lewis Howes? People feel inclined to want to give back.
24:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:36 Lewis Howes? So why is, why do you say, you know, give yourself away, the pull of positivity and? Just a little respect.
24:44 Speaker 01 So, well, they all come from, they're all based on the same concept that you, so some of these habits you inherently have, you inherently had generosity as one of your habits.
24:55 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
24:55 Speaker 01 And so you were connecting people when you didn't know where it would lead.
24:59 Lewis Howes? Yep.
25:00 Speaker 01 That was just who you were. Other people can, that don't have that, they can learn that skill, you know, it's, these, these are all skills that you can practice and learn, like anything else, they're, they're muscles that you gotta work out. And for me, generous is all about not expecting anything in return and just giving away, respect is another form of being generous. And, um, you know, I cover a study in that, in the book, that Harvard Business School, they interviewed 20,000 employees. And the number one thing that they said made for good leadership was respect. It wasn't, it wasn't time off, it wasn't a raise or money or promotion. The, the number one driver was respect.
25:45 Speaker 01 And if you respect the people you interact with and work with, I mean, that's where, that's where the action is.
25:50 Lewis Howes? You'll get more out of that.
25:52 Speaker 01 You'll get more out of that.
25:52 Lewis Howes? That team.
25:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, you'll, if you respect them and see them as peers, that's what is gonna level you up.
25:58 Lewis Howes? Interesting.
25:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
26:00 Lewis Howes? I heard these stories about how Steve Jobs was disrespectful to a lot of his product developers, that he'd like throw the phone back in their face or whatever, you know, and talk bad about people, but maybe that's just one off times, but maybe he also had a level of respect for them.
26:14 Speaker 01 Somehow, some other way?
26:16 Lewis Howes? Yeah, some other way.
26:16 Speaker 01 Or maybe he was that one in a million that was such a freaky genius.
26:21 Lewis Howes? Or he had other thing, other habits that were checking.
26:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, you just followed him because you're like, I don't like this dude, but.
26:26 Lewis Howes? Yeah, but he's amazing.
26:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, he's amazing.
26:28 Lewis Howes? He's amazing, he's got, he's got a vision and he's putting it out there and he's persuasive in other ways, yeah.
26:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, he was an original though.
26:34 Lewis Howes? He was an original.
26:35 Speaker 01 He wasn't original, for sure.
26:36 Lewis Howes? He wasn't original. Okay, so we got generous is one of the key habits, give yourself away, the pull of positivity, what does that mean?
26:42 Speaker 01 So, the pull positivity is, is just simply, um, there's a lot of different ways you can take persuasion. And I cover, that sort of covers, there's negative parts of persuasion, which are also really effective.
26:57 Lewis Howes? Like fear-based persuasion?
26:58 Speaker 01 Fear-based persuasion.
26:59 Lewis Howes? It's like my old football coach in high school or something, it was just like. screamed at you if you dropped the ball, you're like, ah, you know.
27:05 Speaker 01 Did that, was that effective?
27:07 Lewis Howes? It was not effective for me.
27:07 Speaker 01 It wasn't effective.
27:08 Lewis Howes? I mean, in some ways, it it made me work hard, but it made me constantly stressed. And I don't think you want that out of the people around you. You don't want them to be feeling fearful and stressed.
27:18 Speaker 01 Right.
27:18 Lewis Howes? By your level of persuasion. Like, if you don't do this, then I'm going to scream at you more.
27:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. And so it it just sort of studies like the impact of negative versus positive persuasion and how positive persuasion wins out in the long run.
27:34 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
27:35 Speaker 01 Negative persuasion can certainly have its benefits and be effective. Um, you see it in politics all the time.
27:40 Lewis Howes? Yeah, it's crazy.
27:41 Speaker 01 I mean, that's all it is.
27:43 Lewis Howes? Crazy.
27:43 Speaker 01 That's all it is, it's just.
27:45 Lewis Howes? Fear-based attacks.
27:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, there was, um, a 1964 Lyndon Johnson ad. It was sort of one of the first, like, campaign ads like that, that was called Daisy. And it shows, um, shows a girl in a field picking daisies. Then a nuclear bomb goes off and then the screen like fades to black. And it's basically like.
28:08 Lewis Howes? The world's ending.
28:09 Speaker 01 Like, if I don't vote for this dude.
28:11 Lewis Howes? Oh, my gosh.
28:12 Speaker 01 My, you know, my family's going to blow up in a nuclear war.
28:14 Lewis Howes? That's crazy.
28:16 Speaker 01 That's negative persuasion that was effective.
28:18 Lewis Howes? It works.
28:18 Speaker 01 You know, it works because that's fear-based. And this just argues that the opposite is is more productive for society.
28:26 Lewis Howes? More sustainable, more healthy. Gosh.
28:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:29 Lewis Howes? Politics, it seems like.
28:31 Speaker 01 It's gotten a lot worse, right?
28:32 Lewis Howes? People win based on those fear-based tactics.
28:34 Speaker 01 They do, yeah. I mean.
28:36 Lewis Howes? But I feel like Obama won based on positivity.
28:38 Speaker 01 He did.
28:39 Lewis Howes? And an image, an ideal of something greater.
28:42 Speaker 01 That is why he won, yeah. He he broke through because he wasn't going to get down to that level. And, I mean, look how from there to where we are.
28:51 Lewis Howes? It's crazy, right?
28:52 Speaker 01 Because the pendulum has swung like so far.
28:55 Lewis Howes? Maybe it's always.
28:56 Speaker 01 Now it's like name, now it's like bully, bully name-calling.
28:59 Lewis Howes? It's crazy.
28:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, I know.
29:01 Lewis Howes? Doesn't seem productive, but that's just me.
29:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:03 Lewis Howes? So you got the, the, the be original, you got the generous, you know, this giving mentality. When we give of our time, of our energy, of our listening, of our respect. It doesn't have to be constantly giving gifts. It can be just our connection. Can be generous with our listening.
29:20 Speaker 01 That's right. Time, advice, connections, compliments that you think of, but you don't say. You know, you're always doing that. You're like, oh, I should do it and then you don't. You know, like, like give those messages out there, like give that positivity off.
29:36 Lewis Howes? That'll make you more persuasive.
29:37 Speaker 01 That'll make you more persuasive.
29:38 Lewis Howes? Yeah. And then empathetic, why is empathetic such a key to persuasion and being influential?
29:43 Speaker 01 So really, um, that the basis of that is about, um, the idea that we are all connected and related. You know, human beings are, we're the universe's only storytellers. We all share 99.9% of the same DNA.
30:01 Lewis Howes? Hmm.
30:02 Speaker 01 But, but yet, that being said, the world is like, seems super fractured. And so that's really just trying to understand your audience and there's sort of habits on how to do that. And not, my dad doesn't have the same beliefs, so we don't, we hate, we, we're like complete opposites. You still have, you still share so much in common and it's understanding shared values. We all, at the end of the day, want the same things and so.
30:30 Lewis Howes? Safety, love.
30:31 Speaker 01 Safety, love.
30:32 Lewis Howes? Connection.
30:32 Speaker 01 Connection, human connection. Yeah, that, those are sort of the drivers. And how do you understand how to look for those and don't shut people down? Try to be a little bit more open and be empathetic and.
30:45 Lewis Howes? How are you empathetic when someone is attacking you or making you wrong or screaming at you or just doesn't want to bring the common ground? Uh, energy and spirit, when it's just like, screw you, you're wrong, you messed this up, I hate you, you know, type of energy.
31:01 Speaker 01 Well, I think it's your job and you know, there's cases where you're just like, I'd have had enough. Like, that's not worth my energy, but there's, there's ways to unpack what's behind.
31:13 Speaker 01 That emotion and what's below it and why that person feels that way.
31:17 Lewis Howes? Through empathy.
31:18 Speaker 01 Through empathy and trying to see things from their perspective. Why they feel that way and not talking to them the way like if they're talking to you, you talk to them back because that's counterproductive. If it's something in a business relationship or
31:31 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
31:31 Speaker 01 A family relationship, if it's a relationship you don't need. You know, that's fine.
31:35 Lewis Howes? Right, right, right.
31:36 Speaker 01 You don't need that in your life. But if it's, if it's something that you need to work through, it's how do you? How do you understand and, and ask them key questions to see things from their perspective? Yeah.
31:48 Lewis Howes? Empathy.
31:48 Speaker 01 Empathy.
31:49 Lewis Howes? Collaborative imperative.
31:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's all about coming together and, and working together.
31:54 Lewis Howes? I used to be, I used to be so focused on competition my whole life.
31:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:58 Lewis Howes? And it wasn't until a few years ago when I was like, man. It's really hard being competitive with everything. And why don't I just start being more collaborative with everything?
32:07 Speaker 01 And when do you think that like? When?
32:11 Lewis Howes? I mean, it started to gradually change over the last six, seven years when I started to open up about sexual trauma and really
32:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:19 Lewis Howes? Kind of being vulnerable about, about the things I've been through in my life. Accepting myself for who I was as opposed to trying to put on these masks. So it really started to shift after that because I was like, man, I'm always trying to compete with everyone to prove my worth to people. Or to the world or whatever, to myself. And when I was like, well, I don't have to prove myself anymore because now I accept myself.
32:38 Speaker 01 Right.
32:39 Lewis Howes? So I can just collaborate more. And every year I get more and more of this collaborative spirit where I think my default is I want to destroy everyone. Like I want to crush everyone.
32:50 Speaker 01 That's like programmed into you.
32:51 Lewis Howes? Right. It's like, I need to win. I want to crush, but then I'm like, okay, that doesn't support me.
32:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:57 Lewis Howes? And it doesn't support humanity.
32:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:59 Lewis Howes? Having that mentality.
33:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:01 Lewis Howes? So why don't I always come from a place of how can I lift everyone else up? And be generous to everyone else and they're going to, you know, I'm going to be up there with them.
33:10 Speaker 01 Wasn't that why you're successful too?
33:12 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
33:12 Speaker 01 Because of that mentality?
33:13 Lewis Howes? Exactly.
33:14 Speaker 01 And that, that shift? Did that happen when you were? Working on your book?
33:20 Lewis Howes? Uh, yeah.
33:20 Speaker 01 Or did it happen like?
33:22 Lewis Howes? It happened.
33:22 Speaker 01 Did it happen before that? Did the book sort of pull that?
33:26 Lewis Howes? It was about six years ago. Yeah, I wrote my first book. It started to happen right before that. Yeah, it started to happen maybe a year before that. When things started to shift and um, it was more of like. I was just trying to do things to prove to everyone that I was like, good enough or something.
33:42 Speaker 01 That you were the man?
33:43 Lewis Howes? Exactly. That was like the best.
33:45 Speaker 01 Right.
33:46 Lewis Howes? And I was just like, what am I doing?
33:47 Speaker 01 Right.
33:47 Lewis Howes? This doesn't support anything being like, I told you so. Or like feeling like, ah, gotcha.
33:52 Speaker 01 Right.
33:52 Lewis Howes? Even if it was internally.
33:53 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:54 Lewis Howes? I was like, okay, I got what? Like, you know what I mean? It's like, why don't we just all succeed?
33:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:00 Lewis Howes? So, I mean, my platform in the last six and a half years has been a platform of sharing other people's stories.
34:06 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:06 Lewis Howes? And putting them in front of my audience.
34:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:08 Lewis Howes? And I think that supports me by putting the spotlight on someone else.
34:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:12 Lewis Howes? It always shines and reflects back on you.
34:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's true.
34:15 Lewis Howes? As opposed to saying, hey, everyone look at me all the time. It's not like, look at this idea, this person, this experience.
34:21 Speaker 01 Right.
34:22 Lewis Howes? And then the reflection.
34:23 Speaker 01 And when you think about competition, what are you trying to win anyway?
34:27 Lewis Howes? Exactly.
34:27 Speaker 01 You know what I mean? Like, what is, what is winning?
34:29 Lewis Howes? To be like, yeah, the number one person in the space or the most selling book, so the biggest, whatever. I mean, I always want to grow.
34:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:36 Lewis Howes? And make a bigger impact, but I've.
34:38 Speaker 01 You think that came from sports?
34:39 Lewis Howes? Absolutely.
34:40 Speaker 01 Like that mindset?
34:40 Lewis Howes? It came from being the youngest of four.
34:42 Speaker 01 Okay.
34:43 Lewis Howes? And feeling like I was never seen.
34:45 Speaker 01 Uh huh.
34:45 Lewis Howes? And needing to be like.
34:46 Speaker 01 Yo, I'm here.
34:47 Lewis Howes? Catch up to my siblings.
34:48 Speaker 01 Look at me.
34:48 Lewis Howes? Yeah, my siblings were always amazing. I was like, how do I beat them or catch up to them or whatever? Then sports. So I think it's, it's hard to shift out of that mindset when that was my entire life. Was like being number one and being the best. And then I eventually realized when I, my first business was building, it was kind of the engine that got me to where I was, to building like a multimillion dollar business. But I remember just like lots of relationships were suffering. So I was very combative. It was like my way or the highway.
35:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
35:18 Lewis Howes? And.
35:19 Speaker 01 I think that's like a young entrepreneurial mindset.
35:22 Lewis Howes? Trying to prove myself.
35:23 Speaker 01 Which is like, I can do this, I can lead.
35:25 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
35:26 Speaker 01 But you can't do it without, it's without the team.
35:29 Lewis Howes? It's it.
35:29 Speaker 01 Like, you gotta do it together collectively.
35:31 Lewis Howes? That's when I started, now I started shit six years ago, or six and a half years ago on a lot of things. Evolved and it not only evolved in the external world, but my internal world evolved.
35:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:42 Lewis Howes? And that was when I brought a lot of peace to my life.
35:44 Speaker 01 I love that.
35:44 Lewis Howes? So.
35:45 Speaker 01 I have a, I have a story on empathy.
35:48 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
35:48 Speaker 01 That in understanding the other side that I just can't, I can't believe this isn't a movie. But I, I ran across it as I was working on the book, but in, um, in 1914, World War One, there was, it's called the Christmas truce. Have you ever heard of it?
36:04 Lewis Howes? Christmas truths?
36:05 Speaker 01 Truce.
36:06 Lewis Howes? Truce.
36:07 Speaker 01 Yeah. T R U C E truce. And on Christmas day, there was the allied forces and the German forces. And on Christmas, one side started singing like carols.
36:21 Lewis Howes? Shut up.
36:22 Speaker 01 And they all crawled out of their trenches and foxholes. And they, for the entire day, they like swapped pictures of their families.
36:29 Lewis Howes? Shut up.
36:30 Speaker 01 Yeah. And they made a soccer ball out of masking tape and they had like a soccer scrimmage.
36:35 Lewis Howes? No way.
36:35 Speaker 01 I swear to God. Then at the end of the, you know, that carried on into the evening. The end of the day, they went back into their foxholes and started killing each other again. And it was war, you know, one of the bloodiest wars of all time. That shows you like how similar people are at the sort of pinnacle of like, I mean, we're talking about war. Like I'm going to kill you.
36:56 Lewis Howes? Wow.
36:56 Speaker 01 And that, that idea of coming together.
36:59 Lewis Howes? And no one shot anyone, no one stabbed anyone.
37:01 Speaker 01 They put down their weapons and then they went back and then they started killing each other.
37:05 Lewis Howes? It's so sad. It's so beautiful and sad at the same time.
37:07 Speaker 01 I know. The Christmas truce.
37:08 Lewis Howes? Why don't you just create a peace from there?
37:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, I know. It's just like.
37:12 Lewis Howes? We're all trying to like go back home.
37:13 Speaker 01 Yeah, let's just call it, you know?
37:15 Lewis Howes? Oh, like you take your land, I'll take my land.
37:18 Speaker 01 Exactly. Peace out. Yeah. Yeah. So that shows like just how the common ground that we can share. You know, even in, even in war, you know?
37:27 Lewis Howes? Yeah. It's all about collaboration. And then the, the fourth habit, main, main principle is soulful.
37:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:35 Lewis Howes? And the importance of skill hunting and personal Jesus, what does that mean?
37:40 Speaker 01 So.
37:41 Lewis Howes? Skill hunting, I think, is something I talk about as one of the greatest things I've ever done for myself.
37:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:47 Lewis Howes? Is mastering lots of different skills.
37:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:49 Lewis Howes? So I have like this tool belt with all these different skills that I can whip out.
37:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:52 Lewis Howes? I can play guitar, I can salsa dance, I can build a business, I can speak on stage, all the things that I was afraid to do.
37:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:00 Lewis Howes? I started writing lists when I was younger and I said, okay, I need to no longer be afraid of this, I need to master this.
38:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:05 Lewis Howes? They became skills, not fears. Is that kind of what skill hunting is?
38:08 Speaker 01 It's pretty much what it is. I mean, I think you, you kind of live embody this. It's, I mean, you know, you talk about how you were failing English and then you ended up writing, writing bestselling books. And like just that, that switch. But the idea behind skill hunting is, you know, there's sort of like life hacking, which is like shortcuts, like the fastest way to productivity. And then there's.
38:34 Lewis Howes? Which is not really skill hunting.
38:35 Speaker 01 It's not skill hunting, it's like shortcuts, right? Which is.
38:38 Lewis Howes? How do you hack it to kind of do it a little bit?
38:40 Speaker 01 It's effective. And then there's the idea of sort of more, more, more, like just work until you grind it out and you're successful. Which like, I mean, if you don't have a good idea, more, more, more is going to not do anything for you.
38:54 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
38:54 Speaker 01 And so the skill hunting sort of lies in the middle of those, which is you be really, really great at a few things. And then every couple of years, add like a new tool to the tool belt, as you would describe it. Keep trying to look at skills and don't look at a little hobby is like not important. Look at it as like dive deep into it, learn a passion, like learn something really, really well. And then that's a skill you've developed and then move on from there. But don't try to do like 12 things at once, you know?
39:23 Lewis Howes? One thing for like six months to a year.
39:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, gather these skills and then over time.
39:27 Lewis Howes? What does skill mastering more skills do for your persuasive abilities?
39:32 Speaker 01 Well, I think first of all, you have to be really, really good. At like two to three, like you have to master some skills. Then you can go find other skills, but you have to really, really, really master some skills. There's a study recently about the most trusted person in, in America, and it's Tom Hanks.
39:54 Lewis Howes? Really?
39:55 Speaker 01 And it, I mean.
39:55 Lewis Howes? He's an amazing guy. Who doesn't like that guy?
39:57 Speaker 01 But who even knows what kind of guy he is, but the reason, who knows?
40:00 Lewis Howes? But he seems to be very trusting, right?
40:02 Speaker 01 Well, the reason why is like, he's one of the best actors ever. Like he, he's, he's crafted his skill so that you trust him. It's why celebrity endorsements work. You know why you sell products with celebrities? Cause they're so skilled that you're like, well, if they're hawking this product, I trusted their trustworthy people because they've.
40:22 Lewis Howes? Mastered the skill.
40:23 Speaker 01 Mastered a skill.
40:24 Lewis Howes? Interesting.
40:24 Speaker 01 And so mastering a skill, I think is, is just really critical to success. And not trying to jump into a gazillion things, but really master two or three things and then add layer on skills after that.
40:37 Lewis Howes? Wow.
40:37 Speaker 01 Yeah. So, I mean, you, you did that with.
40:40 Lewis Howes? Of course, sports and other stuff, yeah. That's cool. So, skill hunting, mastering skills will make you more persuasive because people will trust based on your skills that you're more credible?
40:52 Speaker 01 That you're more credible and trustworthy because.
40:54 Lewis Howes? You're hardworking, that you're consistent, you're committed.
40:57 Speaker 01 You've been, you've been able to learn something and be excellent at it.
41:01 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
41:01 Speaker 01 And not just proficient, but excellent at it. And then the personal Jesus part is then adding purpose. What is your give back? What are you doing in the world that's not just for profit or for ego? There's a lot of ego.
41:16 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
41:17 Speaker 01 Um, out there. And so what is the purpose piece? And how do you look at your skills and match it up with giving back? So for you, you know, pencils of promise is something that you're, you know, really dedicated, passionate about. And so. It's really lining, you know, there's an exercise in there of like, what are the two or three things you're really skilled at? What are two or three things you care about in the world? And if you stare at those two lists long enough, you'll come up with an idea of how to combine those. It's why, you know, from an ad guy, I'm a, I'm a madman, right? Like, I understand advertising, I'm super skilled at that.
41:57 Speaker 01 It's why we took those skills to, you know, fight sexual assault and I created a group called the Creative Alliance. It's 90 companies that do social good pro bono work. Those are taking the skills of advertising. You wouldn't think advertising where we're trying to sell products and services for profit could do good, but anyone can take whatever skills they have and figure out a way to apply them to make the world a better place. And that makes you a more persuasive person.
42:27 Lewis Howes? That's interesting. Wow, man.
42:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, cool.
42:30 Lewis Howes? It's exciting. The soulful art of persuasion, not just the art of persuasion, the soulful art, the 11 habits that will make anyone a master influencer. What's something people can do today that can make them more influential? Right after listening to this, whether they get your book and dive into all the exercises and everything or not, what's something they can do right now to make them more influential?
42:52 Speaker 01 Like the dumb, like the first easy thing?
42:54 Lewis Howes? Easiest thing that's just like something they can do in the next hour. Like when they meet the next person they talk to, what's something they can do differently that they, that they don't normally do?
43:04 Speaker 01 I think the idea of not looking, switching the mindset of transactional thinking is the number one quickest way and thinking about it as long, the long-term viewpoint. That's sort of the number one thing I would say you could do right away. And anyone can do that switch. That's a really easy thing to do.
43:23 Lewis Howes? So NBC.
43:25 Speaker 01 Never be closing, baby.
43:26 Lewis Howes? Never be closing.
43:26 Speaker 01 No, don't do it, man. Yeah.
43:28 Lewis Howes? But eventually you gotta close.
43:30 Speaker 01 Yeah, you'll close.
43:31 Lewis Howes? To run your business or to get the, the partner you want, you've gotta ask for something, right?
43:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, of course. You can ask.
43:37 Lewis Howes? Right.
43:38 Speaker 01 You can pull, not push. You know, that's sort of the big difference.
43:41 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
43:42 Speaker 01 You can pull them towards you, but not push.
43:44 Lewis Howes? I like this, man. I like this. So, uh, where can you, they get the book?
43:48 Speaker 01 Uh, Amazon, Barnes and Noble.
43:51 Lewis Howes? Do you guys have a website for this or your personal website?
43:54 Speaker 01 The SoulfulArt.com.
43:55 Lewis Howes? The SoulfulArt.com?
43:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
43:56 Lewis Howes? Do you have a personal website or is there more mechanism?
43:59 Speaker 01 Uh, it's just mechanism.com and SoulfulArt.com.
44:02 Lewis Howes? Mechanism.com is one word? It's pretty good.
44:04 Speaker 01 Mechanism.com, but it's with a K.
44:06 Lewis Howes? That's right.
44:07 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
44:07 Lewis Howes? Yes.
44:07 Speaker 01 That's the difference.
44:09 Lewis Howes? I like it. So, the book is at the SoulfulArt.com.
44:12 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:13 Lewis Howes? Um, do you have any bonuses or anything where they can?
44:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah. They can download the first chapter.
44:19 Lewis Howes? Gotcha.
44:19 Speaker 01 Check it out, see if they like it.
44:21 Lewis Howes? I like it, man.
44:21 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
44:22 Lewis Howes? This has been years in the making for you.
44:24 Speaker 01 Three-year journey.
44:25 Lewis Howes? Lots of research.
44:26 Speaker 01 Tons of research.
44:27 Lewis Howes? Lots of exercises, practical, powerful, inspiring, storytelling-based book. Make sure you guys pick this up. I've got a couple of questions for you left. This is called the three truths question.
44:40 Speaker 01 All right.
44:40 Lewis Howes? So, imagine at your last day on earth.
44:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:45 Lewis Howes? A hundred, two hundred years from now, right? And you get to live as long as you wanna live.
44:48 Speaker 01 Oh, that's dope.
44:49 Lewis Howes? You get to live as long as you want.
44:50 Speaker 01 All right.
44:51 Lewis Howes? But eventually you gotta call it quits, right? And the lights, the lights shut off on, on this experience for you and you go somewhere else. And, uh, you've created everything you wanna create in the world. You've achieved it all. You've done anything you wanna do, you've done it. But for whatever reason, you've gotta take all that work with you. So, no one has access to this book. Your advertising agency, it's all, not wiped off, gone with you to another place.
45:15 Speaker 01 Okay, all right.
45:16 Lewis Howes? But no one has access to it.
45:17 Speaker 01 Okay.
45:18 Lewis Howes? Uh, but you get to leave behind a piece of paper that you get to write down three things you know to be true about every experience in your life that you would leave behind for the rest of us. Kind of like the three lessons that you'd wanna leave behind. So, three things you know to be true. This is all people would have to remember you by.
45:37 Speaker 01 Okay.
45:37 Lewis Howes? What would you say are the, your three truths?
45:39 Speaker 01 So, the three truths to pass on to someone?
45:41 Lewis Howes? Yeah, the lessons to the world.
45:42 Speaker 01 Okay.
45:43 Lewis Howes? Kinda like your, your commandments.
45:45 Speaker 01 My commandments.
45:46 Lewis Howes? Three of them.
45:46 Speaker 01 Okay, all right. Three of them. All right. Number one, be kind. Like that, that mental idea of...
45:54 Speaker 01 Viewing the world through that filter of kindness to other people is sort of foundational. I think it's a foundational point of view. Second is be yourself. You got to, no one can understand you if you don't understand yourself. So you gotta fully be yourself. What's number three? Be kind, be yourself. And um, don't live your life by what other people think. And so if you're making change, it should be change that you want to make, not how it's going to impact or how what people are going to say about your change.
46:33 Lewis Howes? I think that's one of the biggest regrets of the dying. I think there's a, you know, five top regrets and it's like, not living my life to please other people, but to do it for me.
46:42 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's really hard to do.
46:45 Lewis Howes? Really hard, especially when you have kids and you're married and you've got business and you've got people that you need to.
46:49 Speaker 01 Every action impacts other people, but it's, you know, you can be, be yourself and be kind. And then sometimes you have to, once you know yourself, you've got to do things for you. You know, you gotta do things for you also.
47:01 Lewis Howes? That's it, man. That's it. The Soulful Art of Persuasion. Uh, I want to acknowledge you for a minute, Jason, because you've always been kind and generous to me. Since as long as I've known you for at least seven, eight years. You've never, you've never been closing. You've always been giving. You've always been authentic. You're always offering. You just offer me like, hey, when you're in New York, come use the podcast when we have. You're never asking for stuff. And um, I really respect your creativity, your ability to match those two things you talked about. Like your skill sets and really helping people get their message out to impact their world in a better way.
47:39 Speaker 01 Right.
47:39 Lewis Howes? Whether it's Peloton with their community or MedMen or whatever it may be, really sharing better stories. I think storytelling is a lost art that you've mastered. So I respect your generosity, your kindness and your realness. You are yourself at all times, at least around me.
47:56 Speaker 01 Try to be.
47:57 Lewis Howes? I love that, man. I love this about you.
47:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:59 Lewis Howes? Uh, final question, but make sure you guys get the Soulful Art of Persuasion. The 11 habits that will make any, anyone a master influencer. You can get it right now. Make sure to check it out. Final question is what's your definition of greatness?
48:14 Speaker 01 Wow. They say greatness is a process, right? So like you're always, you're always trying to achieve that. But I think, um, you know, something that I've learned, which I know you've learned too. It's kind of that competitive thing where you're never happy. You're never happy, like you're always like striving, striving, striving. And I think greatness to me is comfort in where you are at all times. That to me is like the definition of greatness, being wherever you are at any given time. Making that like the best thing it can be. And that's really hard to learn.
48:49 Lewis Howes? Yeah. Accepting where you're at right now.
48:51 Speaker 01 Accepting where you're at to me is, is, is that's what great people do. That's greatness and uh, it's really hard in this modern era to do that. Cause it's all about climbing and striving and moving and, and, and you know, more and more and more. But I think that, that to me is like being present and accepting where you are at all times is definition of greatness.
49:14 Lewis Howes? My man, Jason Harris. Thanks, brother.
49:15 Speaker 01 Thanks, man.
49:15 Lewis Howes? Appreciate you, bro.
49:18 Lewis Howes? There you have it, my friend. I hope you enjoyed this episode with my good friend, Jason Harris. And all the wisdom that he has brought together from his years of experience in the business. About how to persuade people, how to persuade clients, how to persuade customers, how to persuade audiences. He's done it all and he's got a lot of wisdom to share. Make sure you check out his new book, Soulful Art of Persuasion. 11 Habits That Will Make Anyone A Master Influencer. It's out right now. If you enjoyed this, share with your friends. LewisHowes.com/848. You can text one friend and say, hey, I think you might like this episode. Check it out. You can put it on a what's up group. You can share it on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter.
50:01 Lewis Howes? Let me know and tag me at Lewis Howes when you do on social media. And leave us a review. We're constantly creating great content and sharing it with you. Every single Monday, Wednesday and Friday, I'd love to hear from you. Leave a rating over on Apple Podcasts right now. Uh, type in a comment of what you enjoyed about this as I'd love to hear from you. Life is about persuading people. To get what you want, to get your message across, to create a vision for yourself that people buy into, to get hired for the dream job, to start a business and get funding. It's all about persuading people to get someone to marry you. We're constantly persuading and there are strategies to do it in a weird, negative
50:42 Lewis Howes? way and there's other ways to do it that are more soulful like Jason has talked about. And the quote that I love the most from Roosevelt is, "People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care." And if you truly care about your ideas and you care about helping other people achieve their goals and their dreams, you will ultimately get everything you want in life when you care deeply about other people. I hope you know that. I hope you know that I care and I appreciate you listening every single week. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.
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