533 | Irreplaceable Things

The Minimalists talk about whether everything is replaceable on a long-enough timeline, downsizing when you enjoy everything you have, the best time to search for a new job, our favorite organizing hacks, and more. Discussed in this episode: Is everything replaceable on a long-enough timeline? (00:47) How can I let go of my meaningful, seemingly irreplaceable belongings? (4:30) Which would you give up: Your luggage or your dream vacation? (17:43) Right Here, Right Now: The Minimalism 10th Anniversary Tour and monthly Zoom calls with The Minimalists. (33:14) Listener Tip: Successfully playing the 30-Day Minimalism Game. (34:45) Have a question for the show? Call 406-219-7839 or email a voice memo to [email protected]. Listen to the full Maximal episode on Patreon: patreon.com/theminimalists http://patreon.com/theminimalists Detailed show notes: minimalists.com/podcast http://minimalists.com/podcast

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  Every little thing you think that you need. Every little thing you think that you need. Every little thing that's just feeding your greed. Oh, I bet that you'll be fine without it.

• 0:38Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yes, hello, everybody. The Minimalist here, Joshua Fields Milburn, TK Coleman. My man, what's happening? Here's something to chew on, TK. On a long enough timeline, everything is replaceable. I wrote this down, and then I don't know if I completely agree with it. Maybe there's a context in which I agree with it, and maybe there's a context in which I disagree with it. And I'm not really sure, which maybe they're both correct. And this reminded me of at our live events, we've been doing minimal maxims. And I will read a minimal maxim to you, and you'll help me unpack it. So maybe you can unpack this one with me in this new segment here I'm calling Something

• 1:22Joshua Fields Millburn?

  to Chew On. "On a long enough timeline, everything is replaceable." Do you buy that?

• 1:29Speaker 02

  Well, this agreement has always come easily from me. It takes no effort to disagree.

• 1:35Joshua Fields Millburn?

  He's rather truculent.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  It takes no effort to disagree, and I can share where I disagree. But I like to try to interpret it charitably and say, okay, what do you think the author was trying to tell us from this? Like, what's right about this? What's the part that is like, if you understand it this way, it's gold? What would that understanding be?

• 1:58Joshua Fields Millburn?

  You tell me. I wrote it, and I don't really know. And so you give me the charitable unpacking of this.

• 2:06Speaker 02

  "On a long enough timeframe, everything is replaceable." That you could say...

• 2:14Speaker 02

  Look, most of the things, not all, not all, not all, but most, most of the things that we trouble ourselves over are things that for the most part either can be replaced or don't really need to be replaced.

• 2:28Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  Right?

• 2:30Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah.

• 2:31Speaker 02

  And that, you know, it's like, yeah, most things that we worry about aren't worth worrying about. And there are only a few things worth worrying about. And if you worried about those things, you might be free from worry altogether.

• 2:42Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah.

• 2:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:44Joshua Fields Millburn?

  There's something to me that on a long enough timeline, everything is ephemeral. That's sort of where I was starting with here.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:52Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And that is true. You know, if you pan out, it's the Alan Watts line that, that mountains are waves in slow motion. When you think about it that way, it's like, oh, I guess they are fundamentally the same if you just pan out enough eons.

• 3:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:06Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And yeah, I think everything is replaceable, even if the thing isn't replaceable, because we never hold on to a thing. And that's, in fact, that's what I want to talk to you about today. Our first question, in fact, is about irreplaceable things. Let's just dive right into the callers here.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  Hey, wait, really quickly. I gotta quote our man, Ray Fleming, who, who said when he was on the show, that if you have a problem that money can solve, you don't really have a problem. And so one very charitable way to interpret this that I think makes it go is if you interpret it literally like things, right? So the stuff that's not replaceable is really non-stuff. You can't replace having time with your children while they're children, right? You can't replace the opportunity to say, I love you, because that person might be gone. But when it comes to things, like whether it's the car, or the house, or the watch, it is replaceable in principle, even if you don't actually succeed at replacing it, even if you never make enough money to replace it. At the end of the day, if you have to choose between having that car and having your life,

• 4:05Speaker 02

  having that house and having your health, having that money, having that watch versus having your peace of mind, choose the thing that can't be replaced, the thing that's actually not a thing.

• 4:15Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I definitely want to unpack that even further here with the first question. 406-219-7839, if you'd like to join the program. Also, you can just send a voice memo right from your phone to [email protected]. Our first question today is from Maria.

• 4:34Speaker 03

  Hi Minimalists, this is Maria from Minnesota. I'm a Patreon subscriber. I'm looking to move to England this autumn, and I'm having a hard time knowing how to let go of so many things that I find joy in where I currently live. A beautiful life has been cultivated here, and I know it's time to move forward, but I'm just not sure how to start when I still find so much value in my current life. It's important to note that I'm a thrifter and a multidisciplinary artist. And most items I own, I've spent a lot of time on or have intentionally brought in and feel beautiful and timeless and seem irreplaceable to me. I likely wouldn't have the opportunity or the money to replace them in my new home if I did get rid of them. I'm not sure where I'll be living well over there and what space I will have,

• 5:19Speaker 03

  and don't like the idea of hauling tons of luggage with me. I would consider shipping, but I assume shipping overseas would be more expensive than I can afford as well. I feel stuck with the logistics on top of grieving all the deep, meaningful connections I'll be leaving here in the States. Any and all advice would be appreciated. Thank you for everything you do. Your thoughtfulness towards the core of letting go has been immensely valuable to me.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Oh, Maria, thank you so much. And that word seeming, seemingly irreplaceable things, they seem irreplaceable, right TK? How can we help Maria let go of these meaningful, seemingly irreplaceable belongings? How strong is that why? How strong is that why? For leaving to go to this new place? Some of the best advice I got was from Dr. Sylvia Culp, philosophy professor at Western Michigan University. And she said to me, "Go get answers to your questions." You know, "Go get answers to your questions." Sometimes we do things not because we have the answers, but we have the questions. The questions that burn in our hearts,

• 6:29Speaker 02

  the questions that keep us awake at night, the questions that make us ask, "What if?" And you've got to go get the answers to the questions that burn in your heart. And I don't know what those are for you. You know, when you think about going to this new place, it could be, "Hmm, I wonder if I could be happy in that new place." And I tend not to orient my life around those types of questions. They make for great hypotheticals, great casual conversations over coffee. But then there's those questions that make me say... Man, what would happen to me if I did that? You know? Could I ever be happy if I didn't know the answer to that? And sometimes you have to do challenging things, things that feel dangerous, things that feel risky, because you know that you would not be happy

• 7:13Speaker 02

  having to speculate on what the answers will be. There are things I've tried in life where I've failed. I didn't like them and I go, oh, that was a waste of time. Or like, oh, I lost a lot of money. But I'm glad that I did them because I would have tortured myself with a story completely unlike what really happened if I hadn't gone to do it. And so I got my answer. It wasn't the answer that I wanted, but I got an answer and that's the most important thing. So I would encourage you to think really deeply about that. And anytime, anytime we embrace a new adventure, we're gonna have to pay the cost of giving up our current comfort, our current certainty, our current sense of security. And we're gonna have to place that at risk. But I also like to think that when you go out into the world and you do things that make you interesting,

• 7:57Speaker 02

  make you more interesting and make you come alive, even if you do come back to old spaces, you come back to those old spaces with new eyes, a greater appreciation and with the power to do things with them that you wouldn't have ordinarily been able to do.

• 8:11Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I think there's something about that, that word irreplaceable that is sometimes even disempowering because I can say anything's irreplaceable. If I have an old coffee mug of my mother's, of course, the mug itself is replaceable with another mug. That's not what we're talking about here, right? We're talking about the sentiment that I attach to it. So the possession's never about the thing. It's, so it's not the thing that can't be replaced. It's what? It's the memory, is the association? And that's something that's already going on inside of me. I don't actually lose that association when I let go of the thing. Maybe I lose a trigger and so I wanna take a picture of the thing. And I did that with a lot of my mom's stuff. I've done that with other things that I'm struggling to let go of.

• 8:55Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I'll take a picture of it, even if it's a pair of jeans or a pair of shoes. Do I go back and look at the photo of the shoes? No, not really. It's like when you go to a concert and you're like, you see everyone filming the concert and I've certainly done this as well. And you never go back and watch the footage that you filmed? Or you go on vacation, take a bunch of photos with your phone and do you ever go back and look at those photos? And the more photos you have, the less likely you are to actually go back and scrutinize them. That's why when I go on vacation with Bex, we will take one photo together. And that's it. And then you have like this, this sort of timestamp of that moment.

• 9:35Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And, and it is irreplaceable in one sense, but even that, if I were to lose it, I don't lose the love or the other pleasant feelings that I might have for the other person.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know what else is irreplaceable? It's, it's the, the opportunity to discover who you really are by doing things that you haven't done before. That's also irreplaceable. So sometimes we, we cling to what we've created and discovered in the past. And we say, I don't want to go to new places or try new things because I would have to let go of what I've created or discovered from the past. But you're, you're also sacrificing something else, right? Because the reason we have a hard time letting go of these things is because we embraced experiences that once upon a time were new. You know, we, we did a lot of thrifting in places we hadn't been before. And we made a lot of cool discoveries and we accumulated the rewards of that.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  And now we cling to them saying, oh man, but I can't replace these things. But guess what? If you go to a new place, you'll also discover new stores and you'll also thrift in a new direction. And you'll also accumulate other things that one day you will be tempted to cling to. And so the magic, the magic isn't in the things with which we feel tempted to cling. The magic is in us, our ability to discover things, our ability to play, our ability to create and make beautiful moments happen anywhere we go.

• 10:59Joshua Fields Millburn?

  You're making me think that every thrift store is filled with quote unquote irreplaceable things, right? The things that were so precious in the moment. And then what happens? Someone died or someone just decided to let go. And that thing that was, the story we were telling ourselves is that that is irreplaceable. And I love the distinction you're making here is like sometimes you have to give up the past in order to make room for the future. But the opposite of that means I'm going to give up this promising future in order to cling to the past. And no wonder there's a world of hurt behind this clinging. It's not because the things are hurting you and they may weigh you down in a physical sense, but they weigh you down in this metaphorical sense because you feel like you can't get

• 11:43Joshua Fields Millburn?

  where you're going until you let go of what you need to let go of in order to move on.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  You know, we see good examples of this in entertainment where you have certain people like The Rock. He goes from wrestling to, you know, being an action star. Joe Button goes from being mostly known as a rapper to being one of the top podcasters. Or you look at Mark Wahlberg, right? Once upon a time, there are certain people who still know him as Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch, right? But then he made that transition into acting and doing like serious dramatic work. And each of these people and so many more than we can name had a choice point where they said, I can keep doing this and I know I can succeed. I can keep selling albums for a little while. I can keep doing wrestling matches for a little while. But they said, I'm going to go do this new thing that I might possibly fail at.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  But in all of those cases, they open up an entirely new chapter of life that gives a different kind of meaning to what they did in the past, but also just does something even more beautiful, you know?

• 12:41Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I totally agree. I would give Art Kohler the permission to think about some of the things that were irreplaceable from her past that she let go of, things that felt so irreplaceable in the moment. And why did she let go of them? And does she still pine for every single one of those things? Or do you realize that what feels irreplaceable today is often invisible tomorrow? I don't even think of all of those so-called irreplaceable things from a decade ago. But in the moment, I can't possibly let go of this because of blank. What is that blank? It's the why you mentioned earlier, right? But there's also a disempowering why. Here's why I have to hold on to this.

• 13:24Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Here's why I can't let go. Here's why I can't move on. Forward and it's an excuse, but it's a really powerful excuse that keeps us sort of stuck where we are. And the truth is that sometimes it, when we let go of something, we do miss it at some point in time. I have something called the didn't know rule. It was in our last audio book that we did together, very, very simple. And that rule is if I find something I didn't realize that I owned it. What happens? I give myself permission to let it go. But just recently I had this, I talked about this on our skincare episode we did. I took a bunch of glutathione because of my doctor, he was having me do this test.

• 14:05Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And I got this weird sort of dermatitis all over my eyes as a result of that. It was a knock on effect of the high dose glutathione that I took. And I'm like, oh, man, I don't own sunglasses anymore because I don't do sunglasses. And I was just in our junk drawer, we call it a junkless drawer the other day. And I saw Bex's eyeglass case for her sunglasses. And I'm like, does she still use this? Let's get rid of this. What? It's just sitting in this drawer and I was going to talk to her about it. I opened it up and it's my old pair of sunglasses. And I'm like, I thought I got rid of these. I didn't know I owned these. And in the moment, what I tell myself, I'm sure I am glad I held on to them because I want to wear them right now.

• 14:50Joshua Fields Millburn?

  While I've got this dermatitis that I'm dealing with on my eyes, I want to cover that up. And so I'm like, oh, maybe the didn't know rule doesn't actually work for me. It's like, well, no, of course it works. It just didn't work in this one instance. And had I not been dealing with that eye issue, I would have sold those sunglasses. I don't use sunglasses anymore. I'm just going to go ahead and sell these. I bet you I can get 30, 40 bucks for them and that's worth it for me to spend the time trying to sell them. But it doesn't mean the rule doesn't work. There are times when they don't work all the time. There will be things that you let go of that you might regret. And that's just another opportunity to let go, to let go of the regret that follows the letting go.

• 15:34Speaker 02

  And be sure that you will let go. There is no neutral ground upon which you can stand where you get to say, if I make this choice, I don't have to let go of anything. You will let go of something, but the real question is, what is the cost of letting go of what I already know and have? Versus what is the cost of letting go of what I'm wondering about and what I dream of doing? Which one of those costs scares the hell out of you? And which one of those costs are you willing to pay? You think you can live with?

• 16:07Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Last thing I'll say is sometimes the fear of loss. You know, when you have the rear view mirror and it's like objects in the mirror closer than they appear. I would say that that sense of fear of loss, the sort of scarcity mindset that is often associated with that, it feels so much bigger than it actually is. So it's sort of the opposite of that mirror thing where it's, it is not nearly as big as it feels in this moment. It feels really big right now and it feels emotional. But the more distance you get between you and the letting go, now all of a sudden you realize like, oh yeah, that fear was so much smaller.

• 16:49Joshua Fields Millburn?

  And had I even gotten rid of those sunglasses and I went back and said, oh, I, I wish I wouldn't have. Guess what? I could find another pair of sunglasses if I really needed them. I could buy them used, I could buy them at a convenience store. I could go buy a nice pair if I really wanted to go back to buying sunglasses. But letting go of the things I didn't know I owned, giving myself permission to do that, gives me permission to let go of tens of thousands of items. And even if one was a mistake, so what? It's obviously replaceable. I'd love to send our caller here a copy of Emotional Clutter. By the way, it's now available on Audible and Kindle. Congratulations TK. Our, uh, our author here in the studio, he wrote this book called Emotional Clutter,

• 17:33Joshua Fields Millburn?

  and you can download it for free on our website as an ebook. But if you want to check it out on your Kindle or listen to it on Audible, you can do that now as well. Before we get back to our callers, let's unpack the question of the week TK. All right, I'm gonna propose a scenario for you. This is, this one's probably the most difficult one I've ever had to deal with. You just packed your bags for your dream vacation. Can you imagine it TK? You've got your bags packed for your dream vacation. I'm wondering, does TK go to the airport with like four pieces of roll-on luggage? I just don't know what he's doing over here. All right, you packed your bags for your dream vacation. At the airport, you're told you have to give up your luggage or your trip. Which do you surrender?

• 18:18Joshua Fields Millburn?

  All right, let's check in with our Patreon community chat. Christine said, "I would keep the trip and lose the luggage. I'd have fun buying new clothes and necessities when I get to the destination. Then, when I'm back home, every item of clothing I bought would remind me of that adventure." I think that's a, a different kind of souvenir for, for Christine TK. What souvenirs do you say yes to? And are there any souvenirs that you would never say yes to?

• 18:49Speaker 02

  No, I mean, back in the day, I used to, uh, to buy shot glasses. When I would go to a different location and it usually has something to do with that place. So when you looked at it, there was a clear story behind it. And, and that's because there was this lady I used to work, uh, work with. She worked in the kitchen at this assisted living facility and I used to call her mama. And, uh, and mama would always look out for me. So she loved shot glasses. So whenever I was on a roll for something, I would make sure I got mama a shot glass. But, uh, yeah, I don't, I don't really, there's nothing that I really value in terms of things that's based on where it came from now. At this point, it's just either I like it and have a use for it, or I don't. You know what I mean?

• 19:27Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah, you're more utilitarian in that sense. Why do we buy souvenirs quite often?

• 19:33Speaker 02

  I think it's kind of a way of planting the flag of crystallizing the fact that we have been somewhere. You know, experiences can be so ephemeral. We know that we went to a vacation, but then, you know, several months, you know, when it's gone, all we kind of remember is how we felt, but we don't remember the things that we did. And sometimes when you have a physical object, it can anchor those feelings in more detailed memories. Oh, yes, we were at this hotel. We stayed in this place. Oh, do you remember this other thing we did? And it makes it a little bit easier for us to relive some of those pleasant, you know, interesting moments.

• 20:09Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah, I think there's something about, I don't know how to say this respectfully. I don't really care much about memories anymore. And there's a clinging to memories, I think I did for the longest. I'm gonna hold on to this thing because it, now, of course, I've said it a million times that our memories are not in our things, our memories are in us. But there, I've gotten to a point in my life where I've forgotten more than I know at this point, I think. And yet, it's okay. Sometimes the clinging to memories, because we only want to hold on to the memories that are pleasant, by the way. We have all of these really traumatic memories that, or just unpleasant memories, or boring memories that, like, I'm not trying to crystallize that and

• 20:51Joshua Fields Millburn?

  hold on to it. And so I think what a souvenir does in our minds is it maybe it crystallizes the experience and I can store my memories in that shot glass. That's at least the metaphor that I'm thinking of.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can imagine you in a new Back to the Future sequel where you're like, where we're going, we won't need memories.

• 21:11Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Carol said, this is exactly why when I travel, I don't pack anything. I'd be sad to lose. TK, I love this heuristic. What do you pack or not pack when you travel?

• 21:25Speaker 02

  Books.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  They're like, sir, you must give up either the books or the trip. I'll give up the trip. Thank you.

• 21:36Joshua Fields Millburn?

  He shoots the TSA agent.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  I was only going there to read.

• 21:39Joshua Fields Millburn?

  It was self-defense.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  Gosh, I tried to ignore it the first time.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  Hey man, I packed the basics. I packed clothes. I mean, you know, like in toiletries, I just pack what I'm gonna wear and what I'm gonna use. I don't know what else there is to pack, to be honest.

• 21:59Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah, I feel that way. Here's what I learned when Nick Ademas and I did that crazy long 100-city tour. I overpacked for it because I'm like, we're gonna be gone for 10 months. It was almost an entire year on the road. And before that, I had pared down my packing quite a bit. But I realized that whether I'm gone for three days or three months, I need roughly the same amount of items. I need my little toiletry bag. I need a few shirts to wear. Maybe you could pack a few extras. But even then, like, how many things do I want to bring with me to weigh me down, quite literally? And I found that that was that was a problem. And that brings me to Sandra's comment here. She said, "Just imagine

• 22:42Joshua Fields Millburn?

  how freeing it would feel to walk through the airport with no luggage or heavy bags." Yes, indeed. I know sometimes when I get recognized at the airport TK, people are like, "Wait, you have a bag? That's not very minimalist of you, is it?" And it's like, "Oh, you caught me. Please don't expose me," right? The reason I struggle with this question, back to the question of the week, you just packed your bags for your dream vacation. You're at the airport and you're told you have to give up your luggage or your trip. Which would you surrender? I would say the best version of me would surrender the luggage, right? The best version of me, the healthiest expression of JFM, would be much more like Jack Reacher.

• 23:24Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Have you ever seen the Jack Reacher films or read the books at all? But Tom Cruise plays this character, Jack Reacher, and he owns effectively nothing that isn't on his person. There's no luggage. There's no bag. There's no fanny pack. There's no backpack. It's just whatever is in his pockets, basically. And he goes to the hotel and he washes his shirt in the sink and wrings it out. And to me, like, there's something appealing about that version of asceticism, but it's not for the ascetic practice necessarily, although that's interesting to me. What is appealing to me is that like, oh wow, think of how, as Sandra says, how freeing it would feel to walk through the airport with no luggage and no bags. And I have some friends who are minimalist, but they still check their bags.

• 24:08Joshua Fields Millburn?

  So they don't have to walk through the airport with a piece of luggage or a shoulder bag or something that weighs them down. And so they're willing to pay the cost of checking a bag and waiting for it after you get off the flight and all of that. And I get that. And also the fear of, oh, what if you lose the bag? Cause that's happened to me before. I've had an airline lose my bag. And I just remember how inconvenient that was for me. Because the truth is that I don't own many things, TK. And so the things I bring with me, I have a reason that I'm bringing those things with me. And you're telling me to give these things up. So I was talking to my wife about this question yesterday as I was preparing for this episode. And she was like, she surprised me because I'm like, she would definitely just give up

• 24:53Joshua Fields Millburn?

  the bags and go on the trip. She's like, yeah, I really don't want to spend a day rebuying the things that they just took, they stole from me at the airport. And so I'm going to just take my luggage and leave and then we'll have to just plan that vacation at a different time. And I thought, yeah, I think that's kind of where I would, would be as well. Someone giving me that ultimatum, I don't want to, I don't know. I don't want to acquiesce to a, to a ultimatum like that.

• 25:19Speaker 02

  But play the game.

• 25:20Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah, yeah. What game?

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Acquiesce to the ultimatum as a, as a, as a given.

• 25:27Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Okay. Well, so if I, I'll give you my pithy answer and then we'll unpack it a bit. So my pithy answer is the lighter the load, the richer the journey. And so I would think, okay, I can lighten my load right here. They're going to take my bag from me. And yeah, it has some stuff that I want to bring with me. It actually has some things I need in there. And what if someone has medication in there? Then obviously they have to keep the bag. But let's just say hypothetically, say, you can keep your medication, but then you have to get rid of everything else in the bag.

• 26:02Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I would say no. I would say, hey, thanks, but no, thanks. I'm keeping the bag. I'm going back to my car. Although I think there's probably a more enlightened version of me who's willing to say, ah, that's fine. I'll just, I'll do what Christine does. I'll just get what I need at the new destination.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  Now, that's the, that's the most interesting part of your answer to me. Why is there that, and I don't think it's just you. I, I think it's almost, it almost feels implied by the question that the superior answer, the one that we know we all should give, is to take the trip, right? Because, because that seems to relate to this idea that life is an adventure. It's about travel. Isn't that everybody's conception of a meaningful life? To be well-traveled? And I'm curious as to why would that be more enlightened? Because, because for me, minimalism is about doing what matters most to you and getting rid of the excess. And if you experience travel as the form of excess,

• 27:00Speaker 02

  and you say, my life is such that I have curated the kinds of things that truly amplify my joy, and I would rather have the few things that I have curated really well, and, and my peace of mind than to go on a trip without them. I don't know why that would be less enlightened.

• 27:18Joshua Fields Millburn?

  I tell you, for me, you bring up a great point, and I totally agree with what you're saying. For me, it's the, well, I'm gonna lose the comfort that I want, and that comfort might ruin the, the trip that I'm about to take. Especially if your dream vacation, generally, not always, but generally, there is a level of comfort that's associated with that. I think about Chris Ryan. He wrote Civilized to Death, and one of the things that he talks about, maybe even talked about it on this show, is, I've definitely heard him talk about it. He, he talks about how people say they want to travel, but they don't really know what that means. Because he's traveled really extensively. Sometimes travel means that you've waited for a bus,

• 28:01Joshua Fields Millburn?

  and you have food poisoning for the last eight hours, and the bus in India didn't show up. And and then eventually it does eight hours late, you still have food poisoning. And then the bus breaks down on the way to your destination. He's like, that's also part of the travel. And so when I talk about like a more enlightened version of me, what I'm saying is, what am I clinging to here? That's really the question I'm asking is, what am I clinging to? Is there a level of comfort? We talked about comfort last week with Dr. Orion. And and I think there's a level of certainty that we want within that comfort. And so am I clinging to this certainty? And is that prohibiting me from this variety, this novelty, this uncertainty that is right around the corner?

• 28:44Joshua Fields Millburn?

  If I'm just willing to give up this bag and see what is behind door number two?

• 28:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:49Joshua Fields Millburn?

  You got something pithy for me?

• 28:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, mine was anything you can't leave behind can keep you from moving forward. So I've experienced a a version of this that many others have, the real version of it, where you you you realize when you get to your destination that your luggage has been given up. Right? You don't have it. And I I remember traveling for an event where I would be teaching the very next morning, early enough before any stores opened. And no, I was not in an area where there was some 24 hour Walmart where I could go buy some polo or something like that. And um, my luggage I got there was it was it wasn't there and they didn't know where it was gonna be.

• 29:35Speaker 02

  And it was a later flight. And so there was no opportunity to go to a store. I just had to work with what I had. And I didn't like that one bit. But I also had a great time. And it was also a time where I had to learn to be present to a lot of insecurities. Afraid of what I look like, afraid of what people are gonna think of me. But then I just had to say, well, this could be a choice. I mean, it literally was when you got up this morning, right? It literally was. And so like, it could be a choice that you would make tomorrow. Under what set of circumstances would you make this choice?

• 30:17Speaker 02

  And let's just step into that story and act it out. This is your choice. We're not gonna go giggle nervously and be like, yeah, just so you know, I would have wore a different shirt, but my luggage got stolen and so that's why I'm wearing this one. It's like, hey, man, like, let's own the narrative and let's show up and let's have a good time and not be so focused on you not being able to wear what you had planned on wearing or you not being able to have this, you just improvise.

• 30:42Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah, yeah, it's funny you say that. If I were to change the framework of the question a little bit, I think I would answer it differently. So it's not my dream vacation, but it is an important business meeting. I'd just leave the luggage behind, I'd still go to the meeting. For sure. And I don't know what's going on behind that. Maybe you can help me unpack that a little bit. But I think about what Beck said to me. I think her answer was the most enlightened answer for her. She's like, no, I would not go on that trip. I'd just take my luggage. And what I hear from her is like, I don't need that trip in order to be happy.

• 31:14Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 31:15Joshua Fields Millburn?

  She's perfectly content. If I told her, hey, Beck, I'd really like to move to South Dakota and live in a tent for a year. She'd be like, oh, that sounds interesting, let's do it. And she doesn't need all of these accoutrements in order to be happy, including she doesn't need the trip in order to live her dream. The dream vacation is not her dream. She's already living it regardless. And she likes to travel a lot, but she doesn't need it. And I think, I think that's the essence of this is the more that I tell myself I need something, the less I open myself up to possibility.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  And sometimes our enjoyment of an activity is very closely tied together with a particular set of preferences.

• 32:04Speaker 02

  Such that if those preferences are not met, we would simply enjoy it more to do something else. So maybe for someone, going to the golf course is something that completely loses the point if they are not able to bring their clubs with them.

• 32:18Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Right.

• 32:18Speaker 02

  And even if you say, but they have some clubs there, that person might say, yeah, but those clubs are terrible. I have a bad back. These are like custom made for me. And enjoying a game of golf goes hand in hand with having my own customized clubs. And I won't complain about it, but if I can't have those clubs with me, then I would rather spend my time enjoying some other activity. And that that makes sense.

• 32:41Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Yeah, I think so. And the question is, okay, but would I be willing to to try it otherwise? And it could be that, like, yeah, I already have the data. I've already tried that. I've already used the other clubs and it doesn't work for me. And I think that that makes all the sense in the world. And that's why I think this question is so specific to the person who it's being asked to. And you'll get different answers from different people. Let us know your thoughts in the comments, y'all. That is almost the end of page one. TK, we still have an entire switchboard of callers to talk to. But first, real quick for right here, right now, here's one thing that's going on in the life of the minimalists.

• 33:21Joshua Fields Millburn?

  The Minimalism Tour 2026 starts next month. It'll be April, May, and June. Nicodemus and I, for the 10th anniversary of minimalism, are going to four theaters in four states that mean a lot to us. We'll be in Ohio, my hometown of Dayton, Ohio. I can't wait to to get back there. We'll be here in California, Southern California, up in Ojai, at one of my favorite theaters. These are all some of my favorite theaters. We'll also be in Tennessee, in Franklin, and in Montana. We've got a special thing going on in Montana that I'll tell you about later as well. Maybe we can get Nicodemus on the podcast to talk to y'all about that. We hope to see you at one of these events. Get your tickets while they

• 34:01Joshua Fields Millburn?

  are still available to any of these four theaters, theminimalists.com/tour. If you can't attend one of these, but you'd like to have a Zoom call with me and TK and Nicodemus, this Friday, we have The Friday afternoon minimalist Zoom and we're opening up to everyone. Usually it's pretty limited to certain tiers on Patreon, but we're opening up this Friday. A minimalist call with me and TK. Bring your questions, your tear jerker decluttering stories. You could turn your camera on, interact with us, or you could just be a fly on the wall. If you'd like, you'd be a little minimalist monk and you can just watch us have conversations there. Have a Zoom call with the minimalist, theminimalists.com/zoom. Much more coming

• 34:44Joshua Fields Millburn?

  up TK, but first here's a tip for one of our listeners.

• 34:50Speaker 04

  Hi, my name is Carolyn from Tucson, Arizona. I just completed on November 30th your 30 day minimalist challenge. I had a great time doing this. My family didn't think I'd be able to do it for the whole 30 days, but I sure did. It just feels great. Everything in my home now just feels like such a sense of calmness in the house. I just feel terrific. I just love it and it's a great way to start the new year. So thanks for your podcast. I do want to join as Patreon. I'm just trying to figure out how to do that. Thanks so much and happy holidays. Bye.

• 35:32Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Hey Carolyn, we're actually recording this on a holiday. I think today is St. Patrick's Day. So happy St. Pat's Day, or it's already after that by the time you're listening to this and congrats on lightening the load. Sounds like she got rid of some of those irreplaceable things using the 30 day minimalism game. Sean, let's get her a free month of Patreon access. She said she's trying to figure out how to get on Patreon. It's just patreon.com/the minimalist. We'll give her a free month. Also, listeners, you can download our free 30 day minimalism game calendar that she mentioned the minimalism game. It shows you all the rules there. You can make up your own rules, too. That's the most fun thing about this. I've seen people totally change the minimalism game. We've had tens of thousands of people play the 30 day minimalism game. Download the calendar for free and learn

• 36:17Joshua Fields Millburn?

  about it, theminimalists.com/game. And anyone else who has a listener tip or insight about this episode or any other episode, just send a voice memo to [email protected] so we can feature your voice on the show. Up next, page two and page three, but first let's take a quick pandyglation break. We'll be right back.

• 36:40Joshua Fields Millburn?

  All right, we'll see you on Patreon for the full two-hour maximal edition of episode 533, which includes answers to a bunch more questions like, "How can Ayesha downsize her shoe collection when everything feels good enough to keep?" "How can Heidi encourage her family to give fewer presents when their way of showing love is gift-giving?" And after trying 20 different home organizing hacks, we're going to talk about which one is the best. All that and so much more over on the Minimalist Private Podcast on Patreon. The link is in the description. When you subscribe, you can listen to our private podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts,

• 37:21Joshua Fields Millburn?

  Spotify, or your favorite podcast app, or you can watch it on the Patreon app as well. Plus, you'll gain access to all of our archives. That's over a decade of less. And that is our minimal episode for today. On behalf of Ryan Nicodemus, TK Coleman, Audio Ben, Spire Jeff, Inspired Dave, Tom Cap, Professor Sean, Savvy D, and the rest of our team, I'm Joshua Fields Milburn. If you leave here with just one message, let it be this: Love people and use things. Because people are irreplaceable, but things are always replaceable. Thanks for listening, y'all. We'll see you next time. Peace.

• 38:01Speaker 00

  Every little thing you think that you need. Every little thing you think that you need. Every little thing that's just feeding your greed. Oh, I bet that you'd be fine without it.