Jocko Underground: The POWER To Do Things You Don't Want to Do | How To Win The Top Spot

The power to do the things you need to do but don't "want to do". Warning others about a toxic person. Advice for military wives. Advice for a new lead position. How to win the top spot on a team. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 72, sitting here with EC Echo Charles, Echo Charles.

• 0:08Jocko Willink?

  And me Jocko Willink. So, thinking about military training, and what is it that's good about it?

• 0:21Jocko Willink?

  And then I realized, one of the things that's good about military training is the same thing that's good about sports. Same thing that can be good about school, same thing that can be good about peer pressure, in some cases, positive peer pressure. And that is, you are forced, in some cases, to do more than you would ever do on your own.

• 0:42Jocko Willink?

  So, what makes me think about this, you know, you think a 20-year-old, 18-year-old, a 22-year-old human, they go in the military, they are gonna get pushed out of their comfort zone. They're gonna do things, and not only that, they're gonna be, they're gonna, like, if they're overweight, they're gonna lose weight. If they're underweight, they're gonna gain weight. If they're, I mean, those are physical aspects, they're gonna learn to pay attention to detail. They're gonna have to. So, they're gonna have to do these things. The same thing with sports, right? You're doing two-a-days in football, you're gonna get pushed. You wouldn't be doing, let's face it, and I used to say this

• 1:23Jocko Willink?

  about MMA fighters, there's like, two different levels, right? Okay, if I'm by myself, I can push myself so hard, right? I can push myself to 70%. If I got my coach with me, my coach can push me to 90%. Now, there is another 10% that only you can get to. You know what I'm saying? Because you can fake your coach, you'd be like, huh, huh, right? So, there's like, the champion trains, look, let's face it, the champion can do all those things, just get to 100% output, but... A normal human, they can get to 70%, their coach can get them to 90%. And then they can dig out another 4%. If they're a champion, they can dig out all of it.

• 2:08Jocko Willink?

  But when you're in the military, you're gonna be doing that. You're gonna be giving 90% all the time. You're at two days, look, that last sprint, you didn't give 100%. You gave 92, but you at least gave 90% because your coach was there yelling at you. You had to. So, once you do these things, when you're on your own, your discipline level has been raised.

• 2:34Jocko Willink?

  You realize there's limitations that you have and you realize that they come from you. And you realize that you can overcome them. And the harder things that you are forced to do, the harder the things are that you're forced to do, the more things you're going to be capable of.

• 2:54Jocko Willink?

  And part of that reason is because you embrace it. And part of that reason is because you start to know what it feels like afterwards. Have you ever talked to me, hear, heard me talk about imposed discipline? Like occasionally, you gotta get someone to know how good it feels to do something. You gotta get them in there. You gotta kind of make them do it.

• 3:15Jocko Willink?

  So that they go, oh, okay, that, that, I feel good when I got done with that. You know, like the first time you get someone to do jujitsu and they're like, oh, that was kind of cool. You had to make them do it, but then they kind of got into it. So there's that as well.

• 3:31Jocko Willink?

  Now, here's what you gotta watch out for. Some people, when they leave the imposed discipline, they rebel against it. Yeah. Right? So they're like, I'm never doing this shit again. Yeah. There's people that, there's, there's guys in the SEAL teams that, once they get done with BUDs, they never want to go in the water again. They're like, hey man. I dig it. They get made to go in the water and they say, no, no more water for me. They don't ever want to go in the water again. That's the example. And it's an exaggeration. Like, nothing, never, I'm never going. But they don't voluntarily. There's not too many guys that voluntarily go in the water a bunch, once you get done with basic SEAL training. Look, there's some hardcore watermen, of course, guys that are just watermen in the tames.

• 4:15Jocko Willink?

  But there's some guys that are not, and they don't want nothing to do with it. So, that's what happens. And you gotta watch, same thing like fighters this happens to. Fighters have been cutting weight their whole life, wrestlers that have been cutting weight their whole life. But the minute they get a chance, and they're done with that career, they just blow up, get totally overweight.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:35Jocko Willink?

  Because they're rejecting it. Some people like they'll stay in good shape forever. I mean, remember we had Gil on here?

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:44Jocko Willink?

  Gil Espinoza, SEAL, he wrestled in college, he's still, he's 75 years old. Looked like he was about 40, still in great shape. It's like, oh, okay. He, he maintained the discipline. He cut weight, you know, but he maintained the discipline. So, the imposed discipline turns into self-discipline. And once again, it's, once you learn what it feels like, once you learn that it feels good, then it really helps you. And even if you, even if you don't learn that, like being in the military, you spend four years, formative years in the military,

• 5:25Jocko Willink?

  where you have to get up in the morning, you have to work out every day, you have to learn things. You're, you have to go to work. You can't just like, oh, I'm not gonna go to work today. And then you end up with a big advantage, because you've been through that. So,

• 5:46Jocko Willink?

  that's the advantage of these different things that humans can live through. And again, you can find it in sports, you can find it in peer pressure. You know, you ever been peer pressured into doing something and you're like so glad that you did it?

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:59Jocko Willink?

  You know, if you're hanging around with the right people, that should hopefully be kinda regular. You know, even if it's something as simple as like, get one more set, get one more sprint, get one more, you know, whatever the case may be.

• 6:12Jocko Willink?

  Sports, hard practices.

• 6:16Jocko Willink?

  When someone's making you do stuff with that imposed discipline, you learn about it. It can turn you into a better person. So, keep that in mind.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Is there anything that you like, don't like to do and kinda don't really do? Like actively avoid, not completely necessarily that, and it's, you think it's because you were made to do it so much? Is there anything like that that you still have?

• 6:41Jocko Willink?

  Wait, what was I made to do?

• 6:43Speaker 01

  I don't know, anything. So like, you know how like, how you said, like in the military, some people, they don't, they're like, yeah, like I went in the water so much. That, you know, I don't like the water that much anymore. Like, I don't have to do that anymore. So I'm never, never doing it anymore. Like the rejecting thing. Have you rejected any activity because it was imposed on you maybe too much for your liking?

• 7:01Jocko Willink?

  You can take this for what it's worth. I don't like putting on a uniform. Even if it's like a suit and tie or whatever, like I don't like that a lot. I avoid it.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  Do you think that's, do you think in the military, when you had to do that, do you think that has an effect on how you feel about it now? Or did you always not like it?

• 7:19Jocko Willink?

  I didn't like it even when I was a kid. I don't think.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  So the uniform in the military.

• 7:23Jocko Willink?

  I've never been a sharp, like you know what a sharp dresser is? You know what I mean? Like someone that like cares about how they look? I don't think I've ever been that guy.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  Nah, that makes sense to me completely. Yeah, but it had no, the military had no bearing on that. Cause you know.

• 7:37Jocko Willink?

  The only thing that's cool about the military is they're like, oh, this is what you wear. You know, as far as like, you know, like going to a wedding or you gotta go to some kind of ceremony. I know what I'm wearing, military uniform. Thank God I retired. Cause when you retire, like I retired, I can still wear my uniform. You know, so I can still wear.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  I'll lay it out for you.

• 7:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Wait, but what I'm saying is though, you know how it was kinda, I mean, guess for lack of a better term. Actually, this is a better, it was imposed on you that you had to wear the uniform.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Did, does that have, do you think if you search your mental state, whatever? Did that have any bearing on how you feel about it now? Now like, do you like wearing uniforms less, even less now?

• 8:16Jocko Willink?

  I think it's about the same.

• 8:17Speaker 01

  Same, right?

• 8:18Jocko Willink?

  I think I'm just not a uniform. I'm not really the clothes.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  So it's not the same thing. Yeah, yeah. But like, like this one Seinfeld episode, this guy, Elaine, the girl on Seinfeld, met this guy, he was a mover. You know, he's moving furniture and stuff. So they went on a date and he was like, oh, I'd bring you to my place, but I don't have any furniture. He was like, I hate it. Cause he moves furniture for a living. He sees too much furniture all the time, you know, so he like hates it. It's the same thing, right?

• 8:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. There's nothing.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  So you don't have anything?

• 8:43Jocko Willink?

  Not really, man. I mean, other than like, hey, have it where, but look at like haircut. You know, so many guys, when they get out of the team, the first thing they do is they grow their hair longer, grow a goatee. You know, I don't really even care about that. I don't like facial hair and I don't like, I mean, for me, I don't care what I, I don't care if you have a beard or whatever. What's that thing you have?

• 9:04Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 9:05Jocko Willink?

  You have like a weird beard.

• 9:09Jocko Willink?

  No, I don't know what it is, right? It's like a line.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:12Jocko Willink?

  What's it called?

• 9:13Speaker 01

  I don't know. I've heard it called like a chin strap.

• 9:17Jocko Willink?

  Appropriate name. So I don't care that you have that, but personally, it's not for me. Hair on the top of my head. I don't care if you want to have some. I don't know if you're physically capable of having some, but.

• 9:28Speaker 01

  I rejected hair on the top of my head a long time ago. I rejected it.

• 9:33Jocko Willink?

  But I don't care what you have, but it's just not for me. But a lot of times when they get out of the military, they want to grow that hair out. You know, they want to feel that, feel that locks in the wind, you know?

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, that makes sense. I don't think I have anything either.

• 9:46Jocko Willink?

  It's, but like, I'm so foreign when it comes to getting dressed up.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:52Jocko Willink?

  That it doesn't even really make a lot of sense to me where, you know, where.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  It's not computing.

• 9:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, like people are like, oh, you know, I got a cool sweater. You know, like I don't, or hey, this guy, this place sells really good suits, you know? I'm not, I'm not, it's hard for me. That is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to JacoUnderground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is, free for all, as long as we can keep it that way.

• 10:39Jocko Willink?

  But we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's JacoUnderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.