Frances Tiafoe: Professional Tennis Player, the sport's fan favorite, captivating the world with his talent and charisma, changing the game culturally, beating Rafeal Nadal, Serena Williams, Arthur Ashe & Austrailian Open

"For me personally, I think I needed that. It built this dog within me... For me growing up, there was no plan B... There was no 'what if.'" Frances Tiafoe Proffeesional Tennis Player Captivating the world with his undeniable talent, charismatic ways and his unique energy on and off the court, Frances Tiafoe shares his journey from humble beginnings to becoming one of the most recognizable faces in tennis today. On this episode of The Pivot Podcast, Ryan, Fred, and Channing chop it up with Tiafoe about how it all started and how life has totally changed for him since winning more which has led to his ever-growing fame. The guys talk all things tennis with Frances, explaining how training works, the mindset necessary and how the current landscape is the perfect opportunity for Frances to rise in sports. Elevating the attention of tennis over the past couple years, Frances' matches have become a magnet of entertainment and unwavering outpour of support, from receiving daily texts of A-list athletes to getting private invites to hang with Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce to defeating the sport's megastars on global stage has shaped Tiafoe's path in ways he never thought possible. Despite the star-studded encounters, Frances keeps it real, always remembering his roots and the community that's had his back from the start. He's focused on the bigger picture—winning key matches, staying true to himself and pouring into the people and things he loves. With a chance to rewrite history books. Frances opens up about how Venus and Serena Williams have been huge influences on his game, not just as players but as role models. He shares how the pressure to succeed is heavy but carrying that weight has led him to have unimaginable highs such as defeating Rafeal Nadal and going toe to toe with the best players in the world. Never shying away from competition, Frances explains how losing his cool in the heat of the moment or seeming unfocused stems from the passion he has for tennis, not a lack of respect or arrogance toward the sport itself. Looking back at one memorable match that stands out to us all, Frances reflects on how it felt like he was being made an example of and he felt he had no choice but to stand up for himself. He admits to the guys it wasn’t his best moment, but it was a learning experience and something he’s grown from. While he tries to keep things light and avoid getting too wrapped up in the intensity, he admits it’s not always easy. The competitiveness in tennis can make it tough to have authentic relationships, but Frances is committed to staying true to himself and loyal to his day one support system. Don't forget to follow us on all audio platforms and hit the subscribe button for more conversations like this! Hey Pivot Fam!!! Special offers for you to stay safe and secure as we kick off 2025! Go to https://expressvpn.com/pivotyoutube and find out how you can get 4 months of ExpressVPN free! And don't get boggled down, Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to http://rocketmoney.com/pivot Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Fred Taylor?

  So you know what time it is? Yeah, know what time it is. Nah, Avery Mr. Smooth, bruh. I gotta get up on some of his gear. I just acting today where I can get some jeans from. He got all the fly shit, just like you, bruh. I be trying, bro. Bless me, though.

• 0:48Speaker 02

  He nice, but like, talk about winning championships, I don't want bread. He don't play games either.

• 0:55Ryan Clark?

  Yup. I mean, are you done, A, being a superstar? Like, can we start with Francis or no? Like, I'm just saying, like... And we talked about all the tennis stuff and superstar, celebrity. Golly, man, AB everywhere. AB so many places, he got pictures courtside when he actually is the photographer. He got a picture of walking with his camera.

• 1:21Channing Crowder?

  I know.

• 1:21Ryan Clark?

  You gotta be big time.

• 1:22Channing Crowder?

  I go to events and, "What's up, brother? You good? How you been, man? Good to see you." Shit, I gotta be it off.

• 1:49Ryan Clark?

  Man, welcome, Francis, man. Thanks, bro. We're excited to have you, man. You know, we try to... The stories we want to tell are about the athlete, but about the person. And I think you have one of those journeys that people have learned about, started to learn about even more. You've shared it recently with your father as well, but I love to talk about it more. This is Channing Crowder. This is Fred Taylor. I'm Ryan Clark. Welcome to the Pivot fam. Thank you for pivoting with us. I guess I want to start here, Francis. It's like 2022 was really the year where I was like, okay, this dude, he's like that.

• 2:25Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 2:26Ryan Clark?

  Right? But everything you hear about being a prodigy, being able to pick up tennis lessons before you were even allowed, or somebody even took you to the side, had a coach to teach you those things. But it's been a slow ascension for you. Why do you think even with all the talent, all the promise, all the eyes on you, it's taken you a while to start to become that star you are today?

• 2:49Speaker 02

  There's a bunch of things going into it. Obviously, you know, when I came on the scene, I still had, I was in an era where it was pretty tough, you know, it's like Federer and Nadal, Djokovic was much younger at the time. I mean, I came on the scene about 10 years ago and they were still definitely like that. They was like holding us young guys for a while. But then just the maturity. I mean, I think when you talk about being elite at anything, I mean, this is, it's all, it's all you do. Understanding like, you know, it's a little different when you having bread and then not, and then like living that lifestyle, you're feeling yourself a little bit. But just kind of now, I guess, understand what I, what I want, what I need to keep going. And I guess, you know, grew up much as a person and that has helped me a lot.

• 3:32Channing Crowder?

  Did you mess around and become a top tennis player?

• 3:34Speaker 02

  Nah, nah, nah.

• 3:36Channing Crowder?

  No, because he like, the thing, the prodigy, like everything you read about you is like, yeah, you know, and I'm sure we'll get to a story about how you, how you got to your first tennis lesson with your dad building the facility and all that stuff. But like, it's like, I'd be watching you sometimes and it'd be like, oh yeah, that's this dude out there with a racket that know how to hit the ball back. Like, was it that easy?

• 3:57Speaker 02

  I mean, I could spend so much time around it. You know what I'm saying? So it came, it came easy. So it looked easy at times and I guess always thought about it something like I'm just having fun. I tell a lot of young dudes today, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you, man, I was, you know, climbing mountains and doing, nah, I was just having fun playing and, you know, I worked hard, but I mean, I just enjoyed the game. And I think that goes a long way. I think a lot of kids nowadays try to, you know, be perfectionists and that wasn't really it for me. I was just trying to do my thing and, um, and try to be elite, but I just generally enjoyed the game.

• 4:27Channing Crowder?

  And I was gonna say, that athleticism.

• 4:29Speaker 02

  Helps in this, in this sport, big time.

• 4:31Channing Crowder?

  But does it? Because I done seen a lot of unathletic people become very successful.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  For sure, for sure. I mean, I mean, I definitely feel like if I picked up any sport from a young age, I would've, you know, like rather than other tennis players, not so much. But, I mean, I think it definitely puts me on to be able to play at the top level. I think you get so far if you're not really athletic. I think the best movers still in tennis are the best players. Yeah, I mean, I think I can fit in any kind of sport, but yeah, you can definitely get away with it being pretty unathletic.

• 5:01Fred Taylor?

  Your parents migrated from Sierra Leone to the US in 96, right?

• 5:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:07Fred Taylor?

  And your dad worked at the JTCC. If, if he didn't work there, would you have not picked up the sport?

• 5:13Speaker 02

  Oh, 100%. Me and my twin brother talk about it all the time. I mean, tennis is crazy expensive, so there's no way I would've, there's no way I would've played tennis. I mean, you know, it is like you grow up in the hood, you can pick up a rock and start playing. You play, you know, play football like y'all, you just go in the back, get your homies and you start playing. There's not much to it. And so, you know, tennis, you need rackets, shoes, play the court time. I lived in, in DC, so you, you know, it's cold, you gotta play for the court time and there was, there was no way. My parents didn't even know anything about tennis and we talk about it all the time laughing, like playing the US Open. We got 20,000 people in the stands, like. It's like, yo, like, we didn't even know the game 20 years ago. Like, now here you are, like, you know, TFO like means a lot in this tennis space. You know what I'm saying?

• 5:56Ryan Clark?

  You know, when you hear the name Francis TFO now, you can associate it with high level tennis play. But you had to to get there. You know, you talked about having to pay for the rackets and the court time and all of those things. Were there ever any points in the journey where you thought to yourself, I won't be able to make it because of the means I need to be able to do it?

• 6:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I mean, definitely got blessed on that sense with my dad being there. So a lot of things were free, but even still, like, you know, we was living like that, like handing down, you know, demo rackets that were behind the, you know, front desk, handing down clothes from dudes that were older than us, that me and my brother would just rock all the time. So it was kind of like, I was very definitely aware of that. I remember coming to my pops and I'm like, man, I'm trying to, I'm trying to take this, you know, somewhere else. At that time, really helped that Serena and Venus were playing.

• 6:47Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  So you're watching them play against each other and I'm like, man, I'm trying to replicate that. I'm trying, I want to be doing that and be able to, you know, take care of the family and do things like that. And parents like, let's go to college. Because for them, it was like, you go to college, school scholarship, you know, you and your twin, you get a degree and then you kind of move on. I was like, man, I seen, I just seen it way before it happened.

• 7:08Ryan Clark?

  I have a little brother, but I'm much older than him. So I was more so dang near uncle in helping him and raising him. When we went to play ball, I was coaching, I was teaching. To have Franklin be that close to you and kind of be part of that journey early, how much did it help to be able to feed off of someone else's energy who was like you in the space?

• 7:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think I would be where I'm at without him. I mean, I feel like, I mean, I never had a, you know, a dude that, you know, there's times where I'd be like, man, I don't know if I believe it. Or like, you know, down and he's like, he's very like. I mean, he's got no filter. He just says what's on his mind. So like, you know, if I'm being soft, he'll call it out, you know. But he was always, he was always like, man, you can do it. You special. And I would tell him things I wanted to do. And he always was my number one fan behind it. And he was like, yeah, like, you're different. But him also living it in real time and being there. It's not like, we're not seeing each other, old or young. We're just giving each other game and just going through all these different experiences. Having him in the, in the stands and big moments and, you know, like me and him staying at people's houses at tournaments because we didn't want, didn't want to pay for a hotel.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  The tournament blessed us and it's like, we sitting there like, you know, in the room like, yo, like, we really out here. It's like, you know, too, like, you know.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, random, like, yeah, I think like random, random person at house playing tennis tournament, like, from PG, like, we lived in one bedroom apartment. Like, now we was out here, like, just killing.

• 8:36Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  You know, so it's amazing.

• 8:38Channing Crowder?

  But you think about that, too. It's like, what if you did have the means? What if you did have the trainers when you were a kid? What if you did have hotel? What if you did have the nutrition? What if you had all that? Would you have been, would we know your name? Would you be Big Four right now?

• 8:55Speaker 02

  Big Four.

• 8:56Channing Crowder?

  Or would you, would you be Big Four? Or would you, would you not be as good because you don't, you didn't have the grind? Like, you had the grind to get, you had to stay in people's houses. Like you saying, you had, you had your brother giving you inspiration where some dudes had a million dollar trainer giving them inspiration.

• 9:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I think you can still get it both ways. And you see, I mean, I remember Steph saying, it's all about the right amount of passion. But, I mean, for me personally, as a dude, I think I needed that. I think I needed that. It just built, you know, this, you know, this dog within me. Like, I, you know, I think if I had it, I don't know, man. I don't, I don't know. I can't see myself like wanting to do it. Because I always knew you have that safety net. For me, like, growing up, I was like, there is no plan B. Like, I don't, I don't care about anything else. Like, I'm, I'm doing it. It's not, there was no what if. And I think a lot of times, you know, people like to be like, oh, well, you know, if this don't work, you know, and like Kobe said, like, I mean, you know, like, let's get more eggs.

• 9:53Speaker 02

  Like, and I totally believe that. It makes so much sense to me because I was, I was laser focused on one thing and it failed. I guess we was gonna find out, but we never did, so.

• 10:03Fred Taylor?

  What's been your greatest source of motivation along this entire journey?

• 10:07Speaker 02

  I mean, honestly, just to see the crossover with, with what I'm doing.

• 10:14Speaker 02

  That, that's, that's been amazing from sports, entertainment, whatever it's been. And then gets to see a lot more people of color want to follow the game, want to play the game. That's like, man, I'm really making a movement. And I feel like when I win, like I'm doing it for us.

• 10:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:28Speaker 02

  Like, you know, in those big stages and that, that, that's the type of shit that gets you emotional. Like, you're like, yo, like, and you don't really, you know what you're doing. And in your mind, you're just like, yeah, I'm trying to win. I'm trying to come out here and show the world I'm nice. But you like, yo, like you winning for a whole community and we don't really do that, like in, in tennis. So that's, that's probably like the biggest motivation. And then, and then seeing, seeing how far it can take the last name. Like, I really believe you, you know, you hustle for your last name and that's something that means the world to me.

• 10:56Channing Crowder?

  Right. You know what else people don't do? Wear their damn arms out every tournament. Did you, is that strategic? Because you always want to pull your damn guns out and wear the little tight, the tight stuff and all. I'd be like, man.

• 11:09Ryan Clark?

  I think it makes.

• 11:10Channing Crowder?

  Why folk got that little tight little onesie on?

• 11:13Ryan Clark?

  Because that man already told you, ain't nobody built like him out there. He trying to show off what's him.

• 11:16Channing Crowder?

  Does it snap in the crux?

• 11:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I knew you. When I came around, like you, you gonna be a dude that talk crazy up here. A dude is your.

• 11:26Channing Crowder?

  You got on the leotard, man.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Nah, nah.

• 11:28Channing Crowder?

  Because you want to, you want to show off all of that, huh? You want to show off everybody, all of that. But is there any push, but pushback with that? Because you are, you do things differently. You bring up the, um, Williams sisters. When Serena started wearing the little, with the, the little catsuit stuff, everybody was going crazy in tennis.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, so wild.

• 11:46Channing Crowder?

  Does any, do they go crazy that you're, you're changing it up? You a big, big old black dude and you showing that you a big old black?

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Well, this is like my favorite, like, you know, I love, you know, I love NBA, I love NFL, so like. But with the NBA, you always playing jerseys, I practicing jerseys all the time. So I told Nike, I was like, yo, let's, I mean, let me, let me rock out like that. I promise you it's gonna go. And then, and it, and it does, and it sells, like, you know, like, I mean, because people can relate to that. If I'm sitting there wearing a button, I'm like, hey, like, young man. I'll be like, alright, like, you know what I'm saying, like, but I mean, like, if I'm wearing, like, this dude out here, sleeveless, you know what I'm saying? Like, he doing like bronze silence, like, this dude like really out here, like, he really with it. And so that's, that's why I really like it, but as long as you like it, that means a lot to me, dawg.

• 12:31Channing Crowder?

  Man, I'm cool with it, man.

• 12:35Ryan Clark?

  There's obviously, there's been James Blake, who was top 10, Arthur Ashe as well. You joined them when you made to the top 10. But when there hasn't been a lot of representation, especially at an extremely high level, there can become this pressure, right? Like this, like you talking about the US Open. Once that, as that journey continues, now more of us start to come out because we're coming to see you.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  Bro, I'm telling you, dawg.

• 13:00Ryan Clark?

  Right, the, the, the viewership changes because they're coming to see you. How much of that do you feel you represent every time you do step out there to play a match?

• 13:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, because now, well, I made two semifinals now, and I feel like as I'm getting closer, like, every, every who's who's coming, they're like, man, I gotta be there for this, like. And so, you know, American hasn't won a slam in a really long time, but, you know, on that court, you know, name after Arthur Ashe, I really want to get it done. I want to be the next guy to do it. And, you know, the first black guy to do it for a very long time. And there is a lot of pressure that comes with it. I'm not going to even sit here and tell you there's not, but at the same time, it's an unbelievable opportunity. Like, I mean, to, for that to be your pressure, like, I feel like that's real, first world problems. I mean, it's a huge honor for me, but it ain't gonna be easy, but I'm, I'm, I really believe I can get it done.

• 13:51Ryan Clark?

  I don't know what it's like, right, from an individual sport. We got to play team sports.

• 13:56Speaker 02

  That's the thing.

• 13:57Ryan Clark?

  And we talk about it all the time. Like, I love the fact that if Channing missed a tackle, I can make the tackle, that gives us another down. Or if my cornerback gets beat, I can go make the hit. We get a PBU, we play again. For you, man, everything is important, right? Every single, every single serve, every single return. And also too, like, you know who the dudes are, like, when we played Fred Nell, I was like, oh, Lord.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying, you know.

• 14:23Ryan Clark?

  But when you standing across from Nadal, bruh. You know what I'm saying? And it's like, alright, it's just me and him. What is that feeling like for you?

• 14:31Speaker 02

  It's crazy, because again, like, you know, like, I ain't got no one to lean back on. And you looking at him, it's like, you know, that's like y'all's Tom Brady, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's y'all's Patrick Mahomes. Like, you looking at this dude, man, like, god dang, man, like, like, man, he's one of them ones. Like, not even in tennis, in sports. I mean, one of the best sportsmen of all time. So I'm like, man, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to do this. Like, two times I played him before, he beat the brakes off me. So I'm like, alright. But I, but I woke up and I was just like, I remember I like, told my team, I had my brother like the night before. I'm like, bro, let's do something special, man, like, shake up the world, why not? Like, he 36 now, like, I'm 24 at the time. Like, I'm like, let me get this dude out the way. And, but I was like, I need to come out guns blazing.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  But I remember, like, I seen him, like, he said, what's up? I don't say what's up. Like, I'm like, I'm like, nah, I'm like, nah, nah, nah. Like, I, I like, instead of like, being like, he's that guy, I'm like, nah, nah, nah. He said, what's up? I'm like, alright.

• 15:27Ryan Clark?

  But you, but you almost, you almost had to bring him down?

• 15:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have to.

• 15:30Ryan Clark?

  Like, I gotta go at this dude.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Like, you're not getting in my head and doing all, like, nah. Nah, I mean, saying what's up? I'm here to win, like. And so, and then once you out there in real time, and you feeling it, the crowd kind of moving your way, you like, and then when you getting closer to getting it done, I'm like, I'm like, already tearing up, but I gotta, I gotta,

• 15:49Ryan Clark?

  Gotta finish.

• 15:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, gotta finish this. Yeah, I'm about to beat this dude.

• 15:53Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  And I remember when I won, bro, like, I never had no feeling like that. I was like, I felt like the world just stopped. Like, I shook his hand, I don't even know what I said to do. I was like, alright, man, get out of here. Started crying, getting on my phone, everyone tweeting. You don't realize how many people, as you said, like, watching this thing. Bron, like, tweeting all this, and I'm like, yo, this is crazy. And then after that, it just shit changed instantly.

• 16:18Fred Taylor?

  How important is, uh, mental toughness in your sport? Because in football, like, we have to be a certain, we have to have a certain type of mental toughness. But RC was saying about your sport being an individual sport, and we had Nick on this.

• 16:31Speaker 02

  Yo, hey, Nick on here?

• 16:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  I'm talking crazy. He was chilling.

• 16:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 16:36Speaker 02

  He was chilling. He the man, though, that's my guy.

• 16:38Fred Taylor?

  He spoke about the mental fortitude that you have to have in the sport of tennis. For you, like, You seem tough out there, but we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. So how important is it for you to maintain a certain mindset to thrive in the sport?

• 16:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think people don't really understand, like, I finished 17, 18 in the world this year. I didn't win, I didn't win not one tournament. You know, like, so you going every week, there's only one winner. And you almost gotta look at it like you almost gotta feel better each and every week. I mean, there's only one winner, so, I mean, it's, it's, it's super tough. I mean, the house has gotta be super clean, meaning everything around you, like, to be able to compete at a high level. Like, and you gotta pick and choose your battles, but when you out there, man, like, you gotta be so present. You don't have a choice, like, everything else is around you, doesn't matter if you got personal problem, it don't matter. Like, there's no excuse, nobody cares. So mental toughness is definitely, I mean, easy to set and done, sitting right here.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  I mean, when I'm out there, I mean, if I like, you know, messed up a couple shots, I'm like, man, it's bullshit. But, I mean, it doesn't matter, you stay in the moment. For me, it's staying in the moment and try to be elite at that moment.

• 17:46Channing Crowder?

  You say you were 17th in, in the world.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, right now.

• 17:49Channing Crowder?

  I can't name 16 other tennis players. I can name you.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  That's my point. And like how, like that, that, those comments I love. Those comments I love. I feel like, and for sure, like, I wanna be number one, I wanna win hella grand, women, or so, whatever. But I, like, the fact that, like, and, and you bring up Nick, like, me and Nick talk about it all the time. Like, we, we got the game, like, right here. Like, I feel like, like, as far as, like, we can talk about culture and, like, really taking it to another level, like, doesn't really matter what he's ranked, though, like, if he's playing, you gonna watch. Cause you don't know what he gonna do. Yeah, it's real. Yeah, you don't, you don't know what he gonna do, and it's entertaining. When I'm playing, you gonna watch, like, and that's, and that's where I, I feel in an amazing position. But then at the same time, like, nervy where it's like, yo, dang, like, you know, I can take this game to a whole nother level.

• 18:34Channing Crowder?

  Well, for I see, I've seen you, uh, I seen you, you break down one time on the internet.

• 18:40Speaker 02

  I knew, that's what I'm saying. I knew, when I seen him outside, I was like, man, he gonna be the one to bring it up. He gonna be the one to bring it up.

• 18:49Channing Crowder?

  You know what I'm talking about, bro, like,

• 18:51Speaker 02

  That fire was heavy, too, man.

• 18:52Channing Crowder?

  My daughter plays tennis and she loves you to death, to be honest, Abel.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  That's love, man, that's love.

• 18:57Channing Crowder?

  But she brought it up to me, she was like, yeah, he went crazy one time.

• 19:01Speaker 02

  Nah, I went. You gotta think, bro, I'm in China, we got this thing called, like, the Masters at the end of the year. So the best eight players in the world. Get to play in this joint in Turin, big prize money and whatever in Italy. And now I had a good US Open, so I'm like around 12. I go to China. And like, in China, like, we playing way in the cut, not a lot of people there, like, big tournament. And I'm like, alright, let's do it. Like, let's try, let's try to get it done. If I won, I would have played Djokovic the next match, so I was really hyped up. And so, I personally think the ref had it out for me, and I'm, and I'm, I'm gonna stick to that. Like, that, like, we got, long story short, we got called on a hell of a time violation. The dude beat me, respected him, he played well.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  And I shook his hand, but when I was walking to the net, I'm like, I, like, am I gonna keep it a buck or am I gonna wild out? Like, I, I really don't know. Like, I'm walking to the net, and my mind is like, so I adapted him, adapted to do, good playing. And when I turned and looked at Buddy to, to like, shake his hand, I'm like, nah, you gotta hear me. I'm sorry, like, you gotta hear. And I, and I didn't know it was gonna be that.

• 20:07Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  But when I started, it just, it was like diarrhea. I, I could just stop. I couldn't bring him back. And when I, and then when I, when I left, and, and it just kept going, I'm like, it is what it is, like.

• 20:18Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  But I didn't think it was that big of a deal, like, granted, like, I should never do that.

• 20:24Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  But when I came in the locker room, Brunson and Josh Hart hit me, and I'm like, oh no. Because I'm like, how they gonna, this is not a tournament where it's like everywhere, so I'm like, oh, this is, this is bad.

• 20:36Ryan Clark?

  It's bad, it's everywhere.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  This is bad. And I'm like, because they was about to play in like 15 minutes in New York. I'm like, oh. I was like, AJ hit me, call me right now. Mom hit me, call me right now.

• 20:46Ryan Clark?

  For tennis, right, you know, we've had the McEnroe's. You know, you have Nick, who a click out too. How much is that frowned upon in the sport, though? Like, our sport is about emotion, right? Like, we like for folks to lose it.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  It, it, it's funny though, because I was saying that, like, I was like, I love, like, who, again, I say it all the time, like, hoop in, in NFL, but, and I'm like, man, if that happened in NFL, like, people like, what, after dead, it would be like, alright, this motherfucker, he's wilding, but like, it is what it is, like. But in tennis, it's so frowned upon, it's like, I mean, bro, I want to have, you seen the video?

• 21:22Ryan Clark?

  No.

• 21:23Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 21:23Ryan Clark?

  You lost it.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  No, no, no.

• 21:27Ryan Clark?

  I'm not gonna, ay, I'm not gonna angry black man.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  No, no, like, right, but I mean, I.

• 21:31Ryan Clark?

  But if I wore the angry black man pointer type.

• 21:35Speaker 02

  On the low.

• 21:36Ryan Clark?

  I'd be like, that's what they look like.

• 21:37Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 21:41Ryan Clark?

  But also too, though, just from.

• 21:43Speaker 02

  But that show's packing though.

• 21:44Ryan Clark?

  From, from my point of view, culturally though, like, I'm used to that.

• 21:48Speaker 02

  That's what I'm saying.

• 21:49Ryan Clark?

  So to me, it's not a big deal. Like, I was like, I get it. But for you though, are the comments to you different than they would be for McEnroe if he does that? Than they would be for Jokovic if he does that?

• 22:03Speaker 02

  Like, put it this way, Mac hit me and was like, yo, first off, one of the funniest things I've ever seen, right? And then second, he's like, man, that find was crazy, because I did some way worse things than that back in the day.

• 22:15Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  Like, so that just kind of answers that. Like, I, they definitely, they definitely got me. Like, that's the biggest find ever in tennis. Like, and it's like, come on, dog, like. No one knows me for that kind of stuff, doing that kind of stuff. I, I feel like they definitely like.

• 22:29Ryan Clark?

  Made an example out of you.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  No question, no question. So I'm like, but it is what it is. You know, you take it for what it is. I mean, if they felt like that was what they had to do, cool. I mean, I, I said my apologies, I, like, you know, but. I definitely think that it was like, oh, this is the moment, we about to get this, dude. Like, full heartedly, but. It is what it is. I take, I take the punches and keep pushing. I, I gotta, I gotta pivot.

• 22:54Channing Crowder?

  I know the find, though. You made a lot more than that.

• 22:58Speaker 02

  No, no, no, yeah, I'm cool, I'm good. I sleep well at night.

• 23:02Ryan Clark?

  Fellas, it's a new year, we gotta try new things. So one of the things I am gonna try is ExpressVPN. Man, you know how it is, bro. I'm always rolling around, whether it's unsecure or unencrypted Wi-Fi, especially public Wi-Fi, ExpressVPN always protects me and keeps me safe.

• 23:19Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, especially when you're traveling internationally, like, it's, uh, secure online, the anonymity, Channing, anonymity, the anonymous that it gives you. When I'm trying to stream. They don't know where you are. And you can use it in all these different countries, no matter where you are. That's my benefit in it.

• 23:37Ryan Clark?

  And Freddie T, what's really crazy about that, you know me, man. I'm always tapped into movies and how they have all of these hackers that get your information, jump into your phone, where ExpressVPN can't actually protect you from all of the hackers. It truly can't protect you from most, especially when you're on some of those common and public Wi-Fi's.

• 23:56Channing Crowder?

  Man, let me break it down simple. Going online without ExpressVPN is like driving without car insurance. You might be a good driver, but it's folks out there that can't drive. Or you know what even better? It's like having sex without a condom. You can't just run up in everything, you know what I'm saying? Raw dog is gonna catch you sooner or later. ExpressVPN is the condom of VPNs.

• 24:19Ryan Clark?

  Find out how you can get four months free by scanning the QR code on the screen, or click the link in the description box below, or by going to expressvpn.com/pivotyoutube.

• 24:31Speaker 00

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• 25:01Fred Taylor?

  You got a text from Matt? You say you got a text from Matt?

• 25:03Speaker 02

  From Matt Gro, yeah.

• 25:04Fred Taylor?

  Like legendary John Maxwell.

• 25:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:07Fred Taylor?

  That's like when Marcus Allen texts me.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 25:10Fred Taylor?

  Like I turn into a little fanboy, cause I grew up watching him. How does it make you feel, black kid from Maryland, getting a text from

• 25:18Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 25:18Fred Taylor?

  Someone like John Maxwell?

• 25:20Speaker 02

  For sure, especially about that. Like, that's how I knew we had a good relationship. We've been cool, but every time he texts me, I'm like, bro, I got to, like, you, you one of them ones, bro. Like, you walk around New York and people still wild out seeing you, you 60 something, bro. That's the kind of legacy I want to have. And he coached us at one international tournament, like some team event. And we won and we was having cigars, me and him and one of my homeboys. And I was like, you realize I'm gonna frame this for the crib? Like, I don't do that for everybody, but I was like, you one of them ones, man. And you definitely took the game to another level. So I definitely found out every time I seen him.

• 25:54Fred Taylor?

  Y'all had the ash contest with the cigars?

• 25:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I had to take him a little thing or two.

• 25:59Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, like, were you trying to make the ash?

• 26:02Fred Taylor?

  Who had the longest ash?

• 26:04Ryan Clark?

  You just asked some things, bro.

• 26:06Fred Taylor?

  No, no, no, they had a contest, bro. That's what cigar.

• 26:09Channing Crowder?

  I don't know.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  No, no, no, I knew what he meant.

• 26:11Ryan Clark?

  I know exactly what he meant.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  It was a little like.

• 26:14Channing Crowder?

  I don't know if it's rich or nasty, but I don't know what's going on.

• 26:18Fred Taylor?

  What, the ash contest?

• 26:19Channing Crowder?

  The ash contest?

• 26:20Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 26:21Ryan Clark?

  You mean you smoked a cigar and you tried to see how long you could get the joint to stay on the cigar? But it's just a very odd.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, especially like, you know what I mean? Like, there's a lot.

• 26:30Ryan Clark?

  Lot of questions to ask. And Fred just jumping, but that's Fred, man.

• 26:33Channing Crowder?

  I smoke different cigars than y'all.

• 26:36Fred Taylor?

  Man, get out of here.

• 26:37Ryan Clark?

  Type of cigars you smoke are illegal everywhere.

• 26:38Channing Crowder?

  I smoke a homemade cigar.

• 26:40Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, so when you, so my thing is this, all right, folk.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  It's getting big, it's getting real.

• 26:46Ryan Clark?

  So folk, I know, that's how we pivot. So you've already started to let the cat out of the bag, right? You was like, yeah, you know, Brunson, Josh Hart hit me and, you know, McEnroe text me. And I talked to Nick. You talk about a lot of famous people, right? Was, you weren't hanging out with, like, Taylor and Travis or nothing like that before too, huh? Like, when you supposed to be focusing on tennis? That never, folk, that never happened. You ain't that type of famous playing no tennis, folk. But like, for real, like, moments like that, though, bro. You know, just, and like, but Fred talked about, you know, the way you came up in the game and the way that you have grown.

• 27:31Ryan Clark?

  Part of that is the approach you have to it. It's part of your personality, your charisma, how you connect to people. But when you are in those moments and it's, you know, it is the New York Knicks hitting you up before the game. It is the most famous pop star and the most famous football player in the world right now. When you're in those moments, do you ever sit back and think about how far you have come to be in those spaces?

• 27:54Speaker 02

  For sure, man. I'm sitting there like, and I say it in real time, like, whoever I'm with, I'm like, yo, like. I'm taking a shout to Taylor Swift. Granted, I'm, you know, like, keeping a buck here. We here on the pivot, like, I'm Beyonce guy. But at the moment, I'm like, man, this is crazy. Like, she the biggest star, like, out here, like. And then, like, you know, Trav and Mahomes, like, they're like, yo, like, we gotta have you in KC. Like, them saying that is wild to me, and they roll out the red carpet for me. It's, you know, and it's crazy, just playing tennis and being able to, like, reach that many people, people wanna, like, meet me and hang out and actually do stuff. It's like, those are the things of why you do what you do.

• 28:36Ryan Clark?

  So like, that part of it is kinda beyond just winning? Or just being good at your sport?

• 28:43Speaker 02

  No, it's who I am and what I represent, like, people relating to you. Like, a lot of people can see themselves in you, like, the energy I play with, the smile I have. And like, I'm just a, I'm just a regular dude, man. I'm just a dude from Maryland that just, you know, love tennis, play with that passion. I love other sports. I got a lot of interests outside of just hitting the tennis ball. And, you know, and you can feel that. I am who I am in every room. I'm not trying to put on for nobody else. And people feel that. I ain't as crazy as this dude, but I'm...

• 29:13Channing Crowder?

  When, when, when did it, I'm, you know, I'm not that crazy. You was with T Swizzle? What's her name?

• 29:20Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, he said he took a, he said he took a shot with Taylor Swift.

• 29:23Channing Crowder?

  He said something early, we were talking on there.

• 29:25Ryan Clark?

  That's what I'm trying to tell you. He drop famous names all the time. But here's the thing, since we not famous, we call people by their whole name.

• 29:32Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 29:33Ryan Clark?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 29:34Channing Crowder?

  Oh, Chuck and Chuck and Boo Boo them.

• 29:40Channing Crowder?

  Bruh, to RC's question, was it the semifinals? Was it, when did you know? Like, when did it hit you, like, damn, bro, I'm famous?

• 29:48Speaker 02

  I'm that guy.

• 29:49Channing Crowder?

  I'm that dude.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  When I beat Nadal?

• 29:51Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 29:51Speaker 02

  I was like, oh, I guess stepped into something different. Like, you know, I went to the hotel that day, and the hotel, like, packed, everybody waiting for me. You know, now I got, you got people, like, security, like, make sure I'm straight. Right then, when I exacted into the hotel that day, they're like, oh, you here to walk the US Open? I was like, yo, what you mean?

• 30:10Fred Taylor?

  407, sir.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  I'm like, yeah, I'm acting like I didn't hear it do it. I'm like, yeah, like, you know, it's my ID. Like, you know what I'm saying?

• 30:18Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 30:19Speaker 02

  Then, you know, and it's amazing how it can just change like that. Like, all of a sudden, you know, everybody want to come watch. People hated me. I'm going to events. I never thought, I'm like, dang, man, like, and so, and it took me a while to kind of like, you know, take that in. Because I never really saw myself like that. And, but now I'm kind of embracing it. It's helped me a lot, for sure. Like, it is what it is.

• 30:42Fred Taylor?

  Balance in that level of fame and not getting out of character and maintaining a certain level of focus so you can go on and achieve your goals, like, is that difficult for you?

• 30:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was. I mean, now, getting a bit older and knowing what it is, it all starts with tennis. Like, all these things, you know.

• 30:59Ryan Clark?

  Main thing to maintain.

• 31:00Speaker 02

  It can go like that if you start bullshitting. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, people only know who you are because of tennis and don't lose sight of that. And on top of it, I ain't, I ain't done what I've really set out to do. I mean, there was just that little kid that wanted to win Grand Slams and be that guy, and I'm still haven't done it yet. Obviously, I'm super close to it, but I ain't done it yet, so that definitely keeps me going. But I know there's more out there for me, but the biggest thing is learning how to say no. I'm definitely the type of guy who loves to, you know, make sure everybody good and this, that, and the other. But it's like, yo, like, I got, I got a small window, and learning how to say no is definitely huge.

• 31:38Fred Taylor?

  That's a lot of challenge for guys that play football, right? And also saying no to family, friends that think you got it. You have those same issues?

• 31:48Speaker 02

  What? For sure. I mean, because, you know, it's all on you. Like, you know, kind of make everything kind of go, but it's like, I mean, it's fine. Like, this is what you, you know, set up for, and you knew, you knew what it is, but it's definitely not easy. People thinking like, it just, you know, it can just come and go, and then, then everybody, then you kind of, kind of vet everybody who around you, like. You really, you hear it really rock, or you just out here, it's kind of just, you know, and then this is another dude, I'm gonna have to like, you know, take care of whatever case it may be, all of a sudden you got cousins out, everybody trying to kick it, everybody trying to do this, that and the other. So we can deal with that, but, um, that's why it's great to have good OGs around you, man, who like, can like, really like, bless you who've been in that position, because it's really hard.

• 32:31Fred Taylor?

  What's his career earnings?

• 32:32Channing Crowder?

  Hmm?

• 32:33Fred Taylor?

  What's his career earnings?

• 32:34Channing Crowder?

  How you know I know?

• 32:36Fred Taylor?

  Because you're the career earning chick, man.

• 32:37Ryan Clark?

  Because you Google everybody's net worth before they come on the show.

• 32:40Channing Crowder?

  Well into the eight figures.

• 32:42Ryan Clark?

  Hey, Bo. Hey, so. Bo, he know everybody, everybody's.

• 32:50Channing Crowder?

  Everybody.

• 32:51Ryan Clark?

  Every show.

• 32:52Channing Crowder?

  Well into the eight figures.

• 32:53Ryan Clark?

  He always, he always says this, "I don't count pockets, but I count pockets."

• 32:55Channing Crowder?

  I do count pockets.

• 32:56Ryan Clark?

  He's like, he count pockets.

• 32:58Channing Crowder?

  I gotta just see, like, I'm like, damn, that man made that kind of money? He move like that? Like, I enjoy seeing rich people like yourself that just be chilling, like, damn, but I can always remind myself, shit, he richer than me.

• 33:09Ryan Clark?

  Well, I have, so my question is this, right?

• 33:13Speaker 02

  It's the fool, man.

• 33:15Ryan Clark?

  He's the best, man. In, in the individual sport, like you said, you walking out, you seeing the dog, he speaks to you, and you're like, nah, not today, bro, it's whatever. How many close relationships can you have within the sport? You say you speak to Nick. Like, I would feel like there's only a certain select few people who know what your life is like, right? To know what it's like to be that. Can you have those sort of relationships if your job is to compete and beat everybody?

• 33:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel like it's changed that part of the last three years. I used to be close with a lot of American guys, like, and we still are very close, but I was like, bro, like, playing Taylor Fritz in the, Sami's the Grand Slams, it's like, in my mind, I'm like, you know, we went from good friends to like, oh, I don't want, I'm not gonna tell you what I'm going through, like, I'm not, you know, like, we gotta keep a little, and when we done, it's all memories and we can talk and kind of reminisce on it, but it's like, there's so much. At stake, you know, now we playing big matches. Even when Nick come back, like me and him going playing a big match. And it's like, we always gonna be cool and stuff, but there's probably gonna be beef in the match. Like, like, energy going, like, you don't know, there ain't no telling.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  So, there's a little bit of a difference now because I'm competing for that. Before, when I was like in the mix, it was like, kind of whatever. But now that I know I can, like, really get it, a little more ducked off, like, it's with my peoples. But, I still got hella love for all of them.

• 34:36Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, we had Messiah Russell on the show.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:40Ryan Clark?

  You know, and this is after we had, you know, Elasia on the show, who, you know, we were all rooting for. And she hits the hurdle in the final. And so, we asked Messiah, because obviously she wins the gold, like, at that point, do you go up to her and show her love as, like, fellow Americans? And she was like, hell no. She was like, she was like, that's always going to be a competitor. And we were different. And you, you, you see football games, cats change, exchange jerseys, they work out together.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  Y'all team sport dudes are hilarious, man, like.

• 35:12Ryan Clark?

  Why is that?

• 35:13Speaker 02

  It's like, it's just, I, I love the vibe. Like, I, like, bro, I mean, I'm talking about my brother all the time, like, with y'all, like, you know, like, exchanging jerseys, doing the whole thing, taking pictures, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, yo, what you want tonight? Like, you see somebody, yo, yo, we out, da, da, da, da. Like, bro, it gets, like, if, if someone beats me, like, we ain't cool again till I beat you again. Like, like, I'm not, like, in my mind, like, like, we not, like, cool until, like, for a minute. Because you also gotta think, like, it's not like, for example, like, a US Open, it's not like, oh, I lost in the US Open. Oh, yeah, I'll be back next week, like, that's it, bro, done.

• 35:50Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 35:51Speaker 02

  So, it's, it's, it's different. And for her, like, that moment.

• 35:53Ryan Clark?

  That's it, it's everything.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  It, bro, I'll see you in four years, like, see you in LA, like.

• 35:57Channing Crowder?

  You can't sit and break bread, have a good time with a dude, and then play him the next day, and just.

• 36:02Speaker 02

  No, no, that, that's fine. I'm talking, I'm talking about, like, after, like, the, the battle.

• 36:06Channing Crowder?

  If I beat you, we ain't eating that night.

• 36:07Speaker 02

  Oh, if I beat, bro.

• 36:08Ryan Clark?

  Yo, man, yo, cool.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying, like, yo, bro, keep working, dawg, like, you wanted it once. You start hyping the dude up.

• 36:19Ryan Clark?

  Now you gonna build him up.

• 36:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, you gonna build, you go to media, like, yo, he gonna be tough. Like, that dude right there, like, you gotta do it, though.

• 36:26Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, but if you lose, though, ain't none of that.

• 36:29Speaker 02

  Start slouching in the chair, you like, man, this dude right here, man. You gotta, you gotta give him the flowers if you don't want to.

• 36:37Fred Taylor?

  It's like that.

• 36:38Ryan Clark?

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• 37:06Channing Crowder?

  RC, I'm with you. You get that subscription, use it once or twice, and you forget about it. Eighty-five percent of people have at least one subscription that they don't use, but they forget about it and they keep paying month after month. Rocket Money got you with that.

• 37:18Fred Taylor?

  For me, Rocket Money is like my own personal assistant. I can use all my subscriptions in one place and if I'm not using it, you can go in there and they can cancel it. You can even set it where they can cancel it for you if you're not using it.

• 37:30Ryan Clark?

  Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings.

• 37:40Channing Crowder?

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• 37:46Fred Taylor?

  Hey, Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved over 500 million in canceled subscriptions. Saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features.

• 37:59Ryan Clark?

  Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money.

• 38:04Channing Crowder?

  All you got to do, go to rocketmoney.com/pivot today. That's rocketmoney.com/pivot. Save you some money.

• 38:13Ryan Clark?

  And now, back to the show.

• 38:15Channing Crowder?

  We talked about different dudes. Randy Moss was one of them for me, just on the field with him was like, I saw him jump up in the air and he had a 40-inch vertical, he was 6'5". He can get 14 feet in the air. And he caught the ball and I was like, "Coach, I can't do anything with that. You might as well do something else because if I'm on him, he's going to score a touchdown." You talk about Nadal, Fed, Joker and all them dudes. Like you seen, you seen some top dudes. When you out there, like, have you ever been in a match where you see it like, "Oh, shit." That ball is coming a little faster than usual.

• 38:50Channing Crowder?

  That little spin is special. Like, do you know, do you see, when you play the best, is it that much different in the semifinals than it is in the round of 32?

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, 100%. All the time I play in the dog, like, I'm like, man, this is, this dude is different. You can get like, like, the energy, not only the energy he has, but the energy the crowd has for him. Oh, you feel like the max is in your hands, and then he starts turning around with a couple of shots. I'm like, oh, that's a little different. Like, I hit that against most dudes, that don't come back. With him, it come back with interest. Like, and you're like...

• 39:19Channing Crowder?

  Boy said with interest.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, you're like, yo, like, alright, you gotta, you gotta slow down, big fella. All of a sudden, the vammo's a little louder than when you're playing another dude. Like, other dudes, you're like, he getting hyped, but he does it. You're like, yo, he coming.

• 39:33Channing Crowder?

  Right, you really feel it.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, you feel it. So you can, and it's a little different. And tennis is funny, man. Before the max starts, they talk about your accolades, so like, like, this is stuff that, like, really mess you up. So like, in tennis, you come out, the, like, the higher rank dude always comes out second. Cool. So we coming out, I come out, you know, little young black dude, whatever. Oh, Francis, okay, cool. Like, mind you, $24,000 pack, and like, that's cool. Like, he come out, everybody standing up, roaring, and then now we do like the five-minute little warm-up, whatever. And they say, oh, you know, Francis, you won three titles, you know, young American, you know, whatever. And him, 91 titles, 20 something grand slams, best of all time. Then...

• 40:20Channing Crowder?

  Cross!

• 40:22Speaker 02

  And you sitting there like, oh, I gotta get this motherfucker out the way. Like, and then you go sit down, and then it's like, okay, play. You're like, oh.

• 40:31Channing Crowder?

  Damn.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  That hits a little different.

• 40:34Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 40:35Ryan Clark?

  Have you gotten used to that because you've been in more of those sorts of matches? Because I would have to imagine, as a really young player, when you're first getting into those sorts of matches, you pay attention to that stuff. And, like, I know, I know for me... Like I had to just see him as a nameless gray face. Right, and I was like, look, no matter what happens, if you get this ball and it's the situation, I'm gonna hit you right in your face, man. I don't care. Right, but I had to grow to that. Like, my first year, I wasn't like that. My second year.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  I'm with you, I'm with you.

• 41:04Ryan Clark?

  Did you have to grow into that?

• 41:06Speaker 02

  I'm with you. And that was like, I really struggled to beat those dudes, because I just gave them too much love, bro. I was like, man, these dudes, like, I would see them, I'm like, they don't look real to me. You see them so much on TV, you're like, yo, you know, Fed, like, dude playing, he don't sweat? Like, why you not sweating, bro? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, like, why your shirt ain't wrinkled a little bit?

• 41:24Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  Like, we been out here four hours, you ain't changed a t-shirt yet. Like, what's up, bro? Like, you know what I'm saying?

• 41:29Ryan Clark?

  No, that's real. Hooper, Hooper talking about like Michael Jordan like that.

• 41:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, I'm like, I'm like, this dude, you know, he's different, like, something like, keep Magg playing, like, you playing him and like, yo, MJ in his box. Like, you like, yo, this dude's a little different. Like, I got my mom and my twin in my box. You know what I'm saying?

• 41:49Speaker 02

  What's going on with this dude, right? So that was a little tough for me. But then, as you said, like, name is a gray face. Like, and as you get to it, you like, man, like, is this dude, am I just gonna let this dude take all the keys? Like, like, at one point where, like, you gotta see me. Like, I gotta get you out the way. Like, you gotta shake my hand and like, you pissed, like.

• 42:07Ryan Clark?

  So I have a question for you, right? Like, you know, there's like the sportsmanship, right? Of tennis is different than football, right? So the sportsmanship, you guys walk up to the net and, you know, even like you say, after when you win, obviously, you talking about Nadal, you gonna be like, he's one of the best ever, this and this. But I already know, like, when I have a cold game, when we do media, I'm straight up, man, it's a great game, man, thank God, whatever. But like, if my homeboy is there, when I get to the house, I be like, man, I bust they ass, bro. Hey, like, I be like, he's sorry, he's sorry, he suck. You know what I mean? When you get to the crib, do you get like, do you ask?

• 42:46Speaker 02

  Bro, what? Talking crazy. I'm like, yo, like, I'm telling the homeboy, I'm like, Rapp is my son, like. And he's just like, yo, what you mean? I'm like, I'm like, nah, he my son.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  Like, you, you, bro, like, yo, you gotta, you gotta stop, bro. Like, you can't, you can't say that, bro. Like, I'm like, nah, like, like, today was like work. Like, were you really tripping? You wasn't really tripping today. But in the, in the media, I'm like, bro, like, you know. The fact that I was even able to share the court with him, like the, you know, I think tennis won today. It's not even really about the outcome. And you saying it dead serious though.

• 43:23Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  But in my mind, I'm like, man, I'll be the brakes off this dude.

• 43:29Ryan Clark?

  Hey, in my, he like, I'm really like that.

• 43:31Speaker 02

  I'm really like that, like for real. That's why I love like, like Ant Edwards, man. Can you imagine? Like, nah, I can bust their ass today, bro. Young dudes can do that, like, but like, I guess, man, I couldn't imagine coming in there like beating a dog and being like, nah, he's sorry.

• 43:44Ryan Clark?

  That, that sort of attitude in tennis, how do you think that would be received?

• 43:48Speaker 02

  The next match, I'm getting booed on the walkout, for sure, for sure.

• 43:53Ryan Clark?

  So if you just after the match just saying, nah, man, I played Rafael, I played Nadal and it was light work today. You know, the other couple of times I played him, he was better. Today, it wasn't even close, like, and that's just what it is. You think you would get booed?

• 44:04Speaker 02

  What? Would it be great like him? That would be, I would, I wouldn't even, I don't even want to know. I wouldn't even want to know. But you thinking it though. That's the thing, like you thinking it, even though like you gassing yourself like you in the moment, like you don't really believe it, but like part of you do, like, yo, like, I'm the one and he not, like he, he had his time and.

• 44:24Channing Crowder?

  Could it ever change? Cause I'm, I'm like, like you said, my daughter plays and I get up and start clapping and they'll be like, you can't cheer for other errors, but you can cheer if there's, I don't understand the rules of it. But could tennis ever get to a point of where you don't feel that way, like I gotta, what is it, gentleman's sport, whatever it is? Could it, could it evolve? Cause a lot of sports evolve.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  So, so it's funny, cause I'm, I'm gonna be advocate for like, you know, people walking around when they playing, cause we trying to get younger fans, so when people walking around when they playing, they can come in and out. You know, they don't gotta wait for Kang over to come in the stadium, like, and it's funny, cause when I'm playing, there's a lot, obviously, as I said, like dudes like y'all who come from different backgrounds. So I'll be having dudes come out there and they standing up midpoint, I had like a big circle, oh, get his ass. Like, whoa.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm still in the point, bro. You like, you might mess me up, like, and like right next to the court and stuff like, so that, that's, that's the type of stuff I love, like where it's just, it gets, makes it really fun. But yeah, I mean, there's times where, you know, I've gotten in like, you know, COVID and stuff like that, cause I'll be like, man, I'm the fucking one.

• 45:25Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 45:26Speaker 02

  Like, cause I be saying it in real time, like.

• 45:28Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 45:29Speaker 02

  And you take it for what it is, but I mean,

• 45:32Speaker 02

  there, there's times where I'm, I'm definitely like that in real time, like right after the match, like.

• 45:35Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  On, on the court. Well, now when I get to the press and I calm down, but I think it'll be good, cause then you'll be like, oh, this dude is different, like he's.

• 45:44Fred Taylor?

  You know how they say the twins can feel your emotions, right?

• 45:48Speaker 02

  Oh, for sure.

• 45:49Fred Taylor?

  What does Franklin ever come back and tell you about the way you perform?

• 45:53Speaker 02

  Frank, when you said that, that day at Boy Robert, you said you woke up that morning, you said?

• 45:56Speaker 06

  I was like, he gonna win. And then I just had to get everybody else to believe it too around me. Like, today's the day. Let's go.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, he woke up that morning, he hit me, he's like, I feel, I feel different about the day. What you thinking? I was like, I feel like, I feel like it's gonna be one of them days.

• 46:12Fred Taylor?

  Did he feel that tingle when you crashed out?

• 46:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. When I won and I started crying, he was, he was, it was over with. Like, he was.

• 46:19Speaker 06

  I cried before the match started.

• 46:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, he, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, he was already in that.

• 46:23Speaker 06

  Something in me was like, this is weird today.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  He was like, he was already in that mode.

• 46:27Speaker 06

  Like, I was like, we here.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  He was already in that mode. It was like, it's up.

• 46:32Ryan Clark?

  You mentioned earlier saying, I still haven't done what I set out to do, right? And I know, in the thing I was reading with you and your father recently, you told, you know, you said, I told him, this is what I wanted to be. You've made it to the professional rank. You've been in big time matches. What is success to you? What will that look like?

• 46:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, for me now, look, I mean, I've done it for a while. The last three years have been really, really, really, really good. I got a top 10. I beat great players. But, I mean, success, man, I want my name in the same sentence as Serena Venus, Arthur Ashe, like, a black dude to win a Grand Slam. And that's just, and I'm not no African-American shit, no, a black dude to win a Grand Slam. Like, that, like, there's nothing would mean more to me. Like, and that name embroidered in that thing forever. And it's never coming off, preferably in Wimbledon and, and the US Open. I think those two are like the mecca of our sport, cuz, you know, like, y'all, like, NFL ain't done, NBA gets finished, so everybody gets watching that. Summertime, like, everybody gets watching those two events.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  So, that's success to me. I, at that moment, I would be like, you know what?

• 47:45Speaker 02

  I can't say shit to me though.

• 47:48Speaker 02

  It is what it is. Like, whatever happens after that, I, you know, no you no tell him, but.

• 47:52Ryan Clark?

  Well, how do you get there? If you've been doing this for so long, you mentioned for a little bit, the greats, the Federers, then Nadal, the Djokovic. They, that's what, that was their battle, that trio. How do you get to the point to where guys walk into the match with you and they're like, hey, man, that's four on the other side?

• 48:14Speaker 02

  For me, honestly, the biggest thing is consistency and how I, how I approach every event. I think there's a part of me that's still kind of picks and chooses when I want to give everything I have. And that's just the reality of it. And then I think that's just down the line. Like, you know, when you really locked in? Like, that's not just, oh, I, I'm coming on the field and I'm locked in. You locked in on everything you're doing. You locked in on warmups. You locked in, you know, how you eating. You locked in how you sleeping. And I think making that more of a lifestyle to be, so I can be elite or close to elite each and every week I play. And then I think that's gonna get me from being in the mix to getting it done.

• 48:51Channing Crowder?

  Who the baddest thing to ever swing a racket? Male or female? The bad, the baddest thing out there, if you say it, this person got on that court dominated at the highest level of tennis.

• 49:01Speaker 02

  I mean, from the women's side, Serena, no question.

• 49:04Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  What she did was.

• 49:06Channing Crowder?

  Stupid.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  What? Bro.

• 49:09Ryan Clark?

  No, really?

• 49:09Speaker 02

  No, no, like, like.

• 49:11Ryan Clark?

  Period point.

• 49:11Speaker 02

  No, that's not like, I'm talking about like, I mean, she, I mean, she's an MJ, she's Bron, like, she's different.

• 49:18Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  Like, the people I've seen, like, bring, like, like, the impact she has, I mean, she's, she's different. And then Federer, for me.

• 49:26Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  There's two of my favorite players, Federer and then this other black dude, Frank's dude, Gael Monfils.

• 49:32Channing Crowder?

  Monfils.

• 49:33Speaker 02

  I've never seen him do athletic like him, ever, bro.

• 49:35Channing Crowder?

  And after he won tournaments, he would have a big limo, limousine full of women. Did you ever see that?

• 49:42Speaker 02

  Bro, you tripping, bro.

• 49:44Channing Crowder?

  Did you ever see that?

• 49:45Speaker 02

  You, you, you.

• 49:46Channing Crowder?

  I had his shoes. He had the lime green shoe, Monfils with the fro.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:51Channing Crowder?

  And when he won the tournament, he'd leave out, it'd be a big, big limousine full of white women waiting for him. And I'd say, man, this is my dude. I bought his shoes. I have a jersey. I, I got a racket. I only play.

• 50:04Channing Crowder?

  Why are you so excited? Man, cuz he said M O N F I L S or something. Man, I love-

• 50:11Speaker 02

  Are you really doing it, Tom?

• 50:12Channing Crowder?

  Man, I have it, bro. I have his shoes and his racket at the house. I bought it because of the limousine picture. And I said, that's my kinda man. I fool with him.

• 50:21Speaker 02

  You talking about athleticism against like having fun and being him? Unapologetically, like this dude, he's changed the game for sure. Like, everybody knows who he is.

• 50:31Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 50:32Speaker 02

  And that's what I like about him a lot. But yeah, those probably three, like them dudes, for real. Fed is like on a whole, this dude don't sweat. I like, I, like-

• 50:43Channing Crowder?

  He doesn't sweat.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  I'm like, what is up with you, bro? Like, like, bro, like, there's no way, like, we out here battling. Like, one time, I really should be, actually at the US Open, I'm 19, and I'm like, I remember, we went to like the last set. That was the first time they put a roof on the joint. And it was raining. And it was super loud in there. And he's like, man, it's a fucking circus in here. I was like, yo, you cursed? Oh, shit. Cuz he's so put together, you know what I'm saying? I've never seen him like, I was like, yo, I didn't even know you did that. That's why I'm like, yo, I'm getting on this dude's skin. But I'm like, man, I've changed shirts like seven, eight times. I'm sweating like crazy, went to the whole full outfit change. And this dude gets sitting there like,

• 51:23Speaker 02

  headband tight, you know, like no wrinkles in the, I'm like, yo, you ain't strapped, like-

• 51:27Channing Crowder?

  Different.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, look like more of a movie star than tennis player, that dude.

• 51:33Fred Taylor?

  Big four, what's been your biggest pivot in life?

• 51:36Speaker 02

  Man, that's heavy. It's a real question. Honestly, like, being able to say no. The biggest thing is not trying to please everybody. I'm a big people pleaser. I still do it a little bit, but I think that's my, probably my biggest pivot. And that's changed my kinda like whole way of life. And then, and translated to results. And that and probably wanting to do it more for me. I was very, you know, I'm just trying to do it for my family, trying to make sure everybody good. But it's like, what about you, bro? And I think when I, when I was like, yo, it's about me, I wanna do it for me. Things just kinda opened up. Everything started making sense. That was probably the biggest pivot for me. Having those tough conversations with yourself, cuz a lot of times you know the answers, but you ain't willing to really say those things to yourself or, you know, really address those things, so.

• 52:19Channing Crowder?

  No, man, we appreciate you. I think the thing I left this with was the honesty. The authenticity. Like, we ask you some questions that-

• 52:30Ryan Clark?

  Are very like culturally understandable for us that people may not get. You know, they may not get like your brother waking up and how that support is the most important thing in the world. And him telling you he got belief in you allows you to have belief in you. You know what I mean, man? Or looking at being able to say not African American, but black. And pointing to Serena, pointing to Arthur Ashe, man. Like, we all get those things, man. And so for somebody who's just an outsider to the sport, who truly supports you because of the color of your skin, I have no shame.

• 53:04Speaker 05

  That's the reality, bro.

• 53:06Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I have no shame in saying that, man. I'm very grateful you spent some time with us, bro.

• 53:09Speaker 05

  Appreciate it.

• 53:10Ryan Clark?

  Thank you, fam.

• 53:11Speaker 05

  I gotta say one last thing, bro. I seen you and Kevin Hart, that whole thing. Yeah, you put me on the spot a couple times. I couldn't leave here and not ask that, bro.

• 53:21Channing Crowder?

  You want the address to the spot?

• 53:23Speaker 05

  Oh, man. Hey, take it a little something over there, shit. So this is real, this is not no joke then, this is...

• 53:31Channing Crowder?

  No, no, no, it's, yeah, it is what it is, yeah. We gotta, sometimes you gotta get naked, man. You got the same parts I got? We got the same part, what does it matter?

• 53:41Speaker 05

  It gets like, honestly, it's...

• 53:42Channing Crowder?

  We just walk around, we eat some sausages, some guacamole.

• 53:46Speaker 05

  It gets naked.

• 53:47Channing Crowder?

  We naked, yeah. We just, yeah.

• 53:49Speaker 05

  Host, like it's...

• 53:50Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, quesadilla, maybe.

• 53:55Speaker 05

  Is it in Mexico? Like, is it, is it, do they only have Mexican food, Chan? Because all you talking about with tacos, guacamole, quesadillas? Y'all be having meat by your food?

• 54:09Channing Crowder?

  It really is in Mexico, yeah.

• 54:10Speaker 05

  That's disgusting, bro. Don't, don't put your meat by my food, bro. Like, nah, dawg, that's disgusting.

• 54:17Channing Crowder?

  It is, that's a, nah.

• 54:18Speaker 05

  Nah, man, that's...

• 54:19Channing Crowder?

  That's really nasty. That's in Mexico.

• 54:21Speaker 07

  He really crazy.

• 54:47Speaker 08

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time. We go Heat!

• 54:57Speaker 09

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