James & Sunny Lawrence: Crushing 101 Iron-Distance Triathlons In 101 days

Conquering a historic feat of stratospheric proportions nobody thought possible, today’s guests will challenge every assumption you ever harbored about the outer limits of human capability. In 2010, Jason Lester and I were the first to complete EPIC5—5 consecutive iron-distance triathlons on 5 Hawaiian Islands in just over 6 days. I’m proud of that accomplishment. More proud that it has inspired others to rewrite their rulebook on personal possibility. But today’s guests James Lawerence—aka The Iron Cowboy—alongside his wife and co-captain Sunny Jo Lawrence, somehow makes my resume just sound…cute. In 2015, the father of five did something I was convinced was impossible when he completed 50 iron-distance triathlons in 50 states in 50 days—a stunning feat chronicled way back on episodes 149 & 166, in the documentary The Iron Cowboy: The Story of The 50.50.50, and in his book, Redefine Impossible. But as many of you already know, James recently topped that seemingly untoppable feat by completing truly one of the most astonishing achievements in the history of voluntary human endurance—101 iron-distance triathlons in 101 consecutive days. In case you don’t quite grasp the enormity of this truly epic feat, let me spell it out. Beginning in March of this year, James climbed out of bed, swam 2.4 miles, jumped on his bike and rode 112 miles, then completed 26.2 miles on foot, repeating this routine every day without missing a single day, for 101 days in a row. That’s 14,200 self-powered miles! Today James and Sunny tell the tale in a warts-and-all conversation that is not to be missed. In addition to breaking down the enormity of this feat—a team and family endeavor in every respect—James and Sunny drop a full-fledged masterclass on mental toughness. Where it comes from, how to strengthen it, and how to ignite the power we all possess to endure the unimaginable. We also discuss the critical role that leadership, family, teamwork, community building, and service play in accomplishing audacious goals and how presence and mindfulness hold the key to unlocking the impossible. This is a powerful conversation that just might forever change your perspective on human potential broadly, and personal possibility specifically. To read more click here. You can also watch listen to our exchange on YouTube. I have tremendous respect for these two. I love them dearly. And I’m proud to share this candid, behind-the scenes excavation of one of the most mind-bending experiences I’ve ever been privileged to witness. Enjoy! Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Speaker 01

  Nobody's the expert at the beginning of their journey. Nobody is. And you have to meet yourself where you're at today, and that be the expectation. The hardest thing to do is to start on any journey because that's where the highest amount of struggle is. That's where our experience and our momentum and our success is at its lowest.

• 1:26Speaker 02

  You know, I don't have a lot of tolerance for people who say, you know, "It's just hard, I don't have the resources, I can't figure it out." And I'm like, "Did you just figure it out?" That's life. You just figure it out. Nobody has the instruction manual, nobody knows what they're doing, you just figure it out. And I mean, that was the whole journey of The Hundred was adaptation. Nothing was ever the same. Every day, the mood, the injury, the fatigue of the crew, of James, the food he wanted, the people that were showing up, the weather. I mean, every day was adaptation. And, you know, I remember being late in the journey going, "Man, we're 90 days in and nothing's ever the same."

• 2:06Speaker 01

  It's 100% physical, and it's 100% mental.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  You straight up have to be 100% on both of them in order to accomplish something like that, or the journey, or push your boundaries or your limits, right? It's a combination. You cannot rely solely on one or the other and allow that to be to get you through. You have to be so strong at both of them, or it just doesn't work.

• 2:45Rich Roll?

  Hey, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. As I suspect many of you already know, I am, among many other things, an endurance athlete, known for doing a couple of things like double iron distance triathlons, or that time I did five iron distance triathlons on five Hawaiian islands in under a week. Well, the feats of today's guest, James Lawrence, aka The Iron Cowboy, makes all of that just sound, I don't know, cute, I guess? Because back in 2015, this father of five did something I was personally convinced was

• 3:24Rich Roll?

  impossible, when he completed 50 iron distance triathlons in 50 states in 50 days. It was a stunning feat that was chronicled in two past appearances on this show, Episodes 149, as well as 166. It was also documented in the film, The Iron Cowboy: The Story of the 50/50/50, and in his book, Redefined Impossible. Well, as many of you already know, this guy recently topped that seemingly untoppable feat by completing what I think is one of, if not the, most astonishing achievements

• 4:07Rich Roll?

  in the history of voluntary human endurance, by completing 101 consecutive iron distance triathlons in 101 days. Unbelievable, right? Well, today, he and his amazing wife, Sunny Jo, share this story. It's a conversation I know many of you have been waiting for. It does not disappoint, and it's all coming up in a quick few. But first...

• 4:40Rich Roll?

  Okay, the Iron Cowboy, Sonny Joe Lawrence. Here's the thing, just for context, in case you don't quite grasp the enormity of what this guy just did, let me spell it out. Beginning in March of this year, James climbed out of bed, swam 2.4 miles, jumped on his bike, and rode 112 miles, and then completed a marathon, 26.2 miles on foot, and then repeated this routine every day without missing even a single day for 101 days in a row. That's 14,200 self-powered miles.

• 5:23Rich Roll?

  I have a hard time comprehending it, even as somebody who has a bit of experience with this type of thing, even though I twice traveled to his neck of the woods, Linden, Utah, for day 91 and day 100, to just experience a little bit of it for myself firsthand. In addition to just breaking down the enormity of this feat, which was a team and family endeavor in every respect, this is a powerful conversation that just might forever change your perspective on human potential. It's also a masterclass on mental toughness, where it comes from, how to develop it.

• 6:06Rich Roll?

  It's about the power we all possess to endure the unimaginable. It's also about the critical role that teamwork, community building, and service play in accomplishing audacious goals, and how presence and mindfulness really hold the key to achieving the impossible. So settle in, prepare to have your mind blown, and enjoy.

• 6:35Rich Roll?

  Good to see you guys. Thanks for doing this.

• 6:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, buddy.

• 6:38Rich Roll?

  Last time I saw you, you were in a different state of mind.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  I was a bit. I'm not gonna say I remember much.

• 6:43Rich Roll?

  You look a little bit better now.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, thanks.

• 6:45Rich Roll?

  Um, how is, I guess the first thing is, you know, how are you doing? Like, how are you recovering? How's the body doing? How's the mental state? I know it's been a bit of a...

• 6:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's been a journey, for sure. Yeah, uh, very different than coming off the 50, um, coming off the 100. I mean, this is what they warned me about, coming off the 50 was, hey, there's gonna be a letdown. There's gonna be some depression. There's gonna be some whatever. And coming off the 50, it was just like this whirlwind right into what was next. And this one, you know, we're more established and there, I was already doing what I was gonna be doing coming out of the 100. And so you take a seven-week adventure and turn it into a 14-week adventure, which is a quarter, quarter of a year. Um, that impact on the mind and the body is significant.

• 7:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  And I had no idea the level of which my world was gonna get rocked.

• 7:38Speaker 02

  We told him, he didn't listen.

• 7:40Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, you told him after the 50 and it didn't happen, right? So he got all cocky about it.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  I did, yeah.

• 7:47Speaker 02

  Really, he did?

• 7:48Speaker 01

  I did, I was like...

• 7:48Speaker 02

  He really did.

• 7:49Speaker 01

  Well, it's funny, and I've said this before, but had someone asked me on day 98, could I do 200? I think, I think somebody asked me that on, on the therapy table, didn't they, one night?

• 7:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Like, close to the end, could you, could you do another 100?

• 8:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  And I was immediate, oh, absolutely, 100%, let's keep going.

• 8:05Rich Roll?

  You were just in the groove.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  But then day 102, I was like, how the hell did we, how'd we get to this point? I got, how'd we even do that? And so it was very apparent and very amazing to me, the power that the mind has and what it was protecting me from. And then, but the team could see it from the outside looking in, right? Because I, I was on, when we do these things, we're on very different journeys. Same storyline. Different journeys, right? Same timeframe, different journeys. And so, and you don't go from like, oh, day sixty to sixty-one, you go from things are normal to I'm in a protective state. You slowly slip into that and you don't realize you're transitioning.

• 8:48Rich Roll?

  Right, like your brain is compartmentalizing everything and just trying to keep you alive. So your blinders have you just focused on the task at hand and everything else is obliterated.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  And my, my team that intimately knows me, meaning my wife, you know, she could see a slow change, but then she knows, okay, this is not normal to what?

• 9:08Rich Roll?

  Was there a moment, Sunny, where it tipped and you're like, we're in a danger zone situation here? Were you ever

• 9:16Speaker 02

  No.

• 9:16Rich Roll?

  concerned beyond the normal?

• 9:18Speaker 02

  I've been married to James way too long for that. I disregard any mornings. I think the thing that was most challenging was the mood swings. So on the fifty, he was completely non-coherent. There was no one home. And it was like we were guiding this zombie through this journey where this time around he had a little bit of his mind, but thought he had more of his mind than he did. And so there were some issues with him trying to make executive decisions or doing things that he had no business doing, thinking his mind was right. But then the moods were all over the place. And so for me, I mean, we've been married twenty years. I know exactly

• 10:02Speaker 02

  what type of person he is, how he behaves under certain circumstances and whatnot. So to see these different moods and these different personalities come out, I was like, wow, he is in a really bad place because we've been married twenty years and I've never seen this person. And so I had to check myself and make sure that I didn't internalize any of that and just say, I gotta get him through this and to know, there were things I wanted to say in the moment that I had to check myself and say, but this is what I need to say and this is how I have to work him through this. So that was quite complex and frankly, I don't think anybody had the skills to do it other than me.

• 10:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, being the team captain, you had so many jobs. I think, I think, you know, people don't really appreciate, you know, the amount of effort and intentionality and just, you know, the extent to which this commandeered your entire life and your family's life. This was a family journey, but you being kind of captain of this ship, part of that responsibility is, given that you know James so well, knowing when it might be appropriate to pull him aside and pull the plug on this thing, right?

• 11:07Speaker 02

  Definitely.

• 11:07Rich Roll?

  If it's really going south.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  Definitely. And at the same time, masking the severity of the situation to James or towards James, to make sure that he doesn't get discouraged. Because I'm the ultimate optimist and I'm the ultimate problem solver. So if I showed any signs of weakness or concern towards James, it would have completely demoralized him. So I had to maneuver and manage the severity of certain situations behind his back without him seeing it or knowing it to make sure that it didn't demoralize him in this journey.

• 11:38Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 11:39Speaker 02

  You know, that's a very complex thing, especially where I'm a very forthright person. I'm not one to just be like, everything's okay. You know, I'm, I'm very forthright. And so it was a delicate balance of saying, you know, what has to be addressed, what not. And at the same time, James didn't listen to anything we said anyway. So, you know, if I said, you know, this is really serious, you're gonna die today. He'd be like, that's great. I've got things to do. You know, so it was, it was quite an interesting balance.

• 12:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  I was never gonna die, though.

• 12:07Speaker 02

  No, he was never gonna die.

• 12:08Rich Roll?

  No. But, I mean, when I think about the difference between the hundred versus the fifty fifty fifty, as mind blowing as the fifty fifty fifty was, a big portion of that was logistics and managing chaos and all the crazy variables that are baked into going from state to state to state. And the difference with the hundred, despite the fact that it's twice the distance, is that you could implement systems and minimize the amount of chaos to create, you know, some level of predictability. I mean, obviously, when you're doing a hundred iron distance trials, there's gonna be stuff that happens that you're not gonna foresee and we're gonna get into that. But...

• 12:51Rich Roll?

  I'm interested in, in your expectations for, you know, how it would go versus how it unfolded. You know, because you thought like, okay, well, I'm at home, I'm going to sleep in my bed every night. I've got this team around me. We have a home base. I'm going to go out and do this one thing and it's essentially going to be the same every single day.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Let me say this one thing first. When, before we started, I said, I'm going to sit down with the wingman. James, you're not invited. We're going to have a conversation about some of the things that were, went wrong in the 50 and how we can change them. And all of them were tied to logistics.

• 13:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 13:23Speaker 02

  So going in, we were like, we don't even know what to worry about because everything from the 50 that was complex had to do with logistics.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that was the whole premise going into the 100 was, okay, if the 50 truly was chaos, logistics, if we remove that, can we double what we did? And because the original goal going into the 50 was how many consecutive can I do? What's my limit mentally and physically? And we said on the 50 because it was a cool project, we threw in the logistics and that became the kind of centerpiece of the project. And so with, with years removed from the project and having an opportunity to now, you know, COVID happens, my calendar gets wiped clean.

• 14:05Rich Roll?

  Right. You were on the speaking circuit, you know, basically traveling all over the place.

• 14:09Speaker 01

  Speaking, coaching and racing. All three of those things got shut down in 48 hours. And so I basically had a year to start to prepare and get ready. And we were initially going to do the project in the fall, like right now. And I just kept getting the impression, March 1st, do it March 1st, start in March 1st. And a lot of times with like gut or intuition, we don't know why in the moment. And a lot of people will not follow it because it's not logical. It doesn't make sense. And Sunny and I just, we talked about it and she was like, well, if you keep getting the impression, we've got to do it in March. And now looking back on it, there's a lot of reasons why March made way more sense than it, than, than it did now.

• 14:51Speaker 01

  But the problem that it created was it upped the timetable six months. And physically, that's a big difference when you're preparing for this, when you have, over the past five years, removed from the 50, become out of shape and not ready. And I was really relying on past experience. And I also knew that, okay, this project is a quarter of a year and I'm going to use the 100, the first half of it as training for the back half. Well, you you just can't anticipate the toll that, you know, that amount of volume is gonna do to your body.

• 15:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  And right out of the gate, I just got riddled with injuries and problematics and it was just like, now we gotta solve these problems.

• 15:35Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  Cause we decided October, so that left.

• 15:38Rich Roll?

  That was the original.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  November, December, January, February, we had four months, was it?

• 15:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and you didn't do a ton of running.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  None.

• 15:45Rich Roll?

  Getting ready for it, right?

• 15:46Speaker 01

  I did almost no running.

• 15:48Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  None, and if it was like 12 minute mile on a treadmill, if it was.

• 15:51Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I was I was running max three days a week.

• 15:55Rich Roll?

  And the reason for that was what?

• 15:56Speaker 02

  I say two, he says three, two?

• 15:58Speaker 01

  Maybe it was two.

• 15:59Rich Roll?

  What was the reason for that? Were you, did you have a, some injuries that you were dealing with, with that, or?

• 16:04Speaker 01

  So I did have an ankle injury that I didn't vocalize, um, but I wasn't concerned about it because my body's great at adapting and evolving. Um, just from a decade worth of experience, but for me, the running is um, the hardest on my body and always leads to, with any athlete that I coach, running is the biggest contributor to injury.

• 16:26Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  And so I was like, okay, if I can become super strong, super strong, uh, powerful on the bike, my, I'm not gonna be running fast. My body will adapt and evolve in the first part of it. Well, to go from running, okay, two days a week.

• 16:41Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  To, um, to, uh, what, what's the quick math? 26 times 7?

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, 140 miles a week, um, that's, that's.

• 16:53Rich Roll?

  Not a lot of wisdom in that.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the quickest way to get injured.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  That's his mind, though.

• 16:57Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  He doesn't think, oh, I'm gonna go from this to this. He says, I have this idea and I'm going to do it.

• 17:03Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 17:04Speaker 02

  Right, he doesn't.

• 17:04Rich Roll?

  I just remember in the early, I don't know, you know, all the, all the days kind of blur together, but it was definitely early in, in the conquest, where things were going sideways and your mantra was, this is the process, like this is the adaptation period. And it just looked like everything was completely unraveling and you were hobbling and it just was not, and you're like, this, we just have to get through this phase, until the body adapts. And I was like, good luck with that, man.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  Well, I, we couldn't believe it, like, like. Things went sideways so fast and so early.

• 17:39Speaker 02

  Like so early, like not even a week.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 17:42Rich Roll?

  You're like five in or something like that.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  Not a week and I'm like, you know, I'm in a lot of pain and I'm in a lot of trouble. But our team just doesn't quit and that's the, that's the interesting part and we don't quit on each other. And so nobody like, nobody was like, hey, we should probably dial this back. We're just like, okay.

• 17:57Rich Roll?

  Your ankle was like three times the size.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  Oh, I want to find that picture when I'm sitting on the fireplace mantle and it is just like, you can't tell the difference between my, my quad and my ankle.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  Well, and part of why I'm laughing so hard is because on the 50, I remember six days in, he's miserable and I'm like, oh, he'll adapt like a day 10. The day come, 10 comes and I'm like, oh, he'll adapt like day 15. We're like to day 30 and I'm just saying, oh yeah, his body's going to adapt. It's going to adapt.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  He just kept waiting for it.

• 18:22Rich Roll?

  Any day now.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  By the time we were on like day 85 and we're like, why are we still dealing with foot problems and blisters?

• 18:28Rich Roll?

  Right. Maybe it's because you're getting up every day and doing an iron distance triathlon and not giving your body the ability to adapt.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  Why are we so positive? You're such fools.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  I just remember Sonny saying multiple times, like with 20 to go, everything like, why are we still dealing with this problem? Why is this still a problem? Like we're 80 days into this. We should have overcome this by, and so this, if I was to contrast it to the 50 and the 100. The 50 was chaos, logistics and fatigue. This one was injuries, pain and longevity. And it just, it just never let up. And so.

• 19:04Speaker 02

  They had nothing in common.

• 19:06Speaker 01

  They were two very different projects. On the surface you're like, oh, consecutive, consecutive. Very, very, very different, excuse me, projects and we were dealing with very different things on both of them. And we were in very different times of our lives too. And we're talking six months removed, I mean, six years removed from that accomplishment. And that was the biggest thing too, is like, leading into the 50, we're talking a, a, a consistent decade worth of projects leading up to it. Stepping stones, growth, and then right into the next one. Well, then you.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  Pause for six years because you're, you know, providing for the family, you're speaking, you're coaching, you're mentoring, you're doing all these things. And then you're like, oh, let's just pick up right where we left off, double it and try to.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  That's what James thinks. That's what he's, and I'm like, sweetheart.

• 19:51Rich Roll?

  What was the original impetus for the idea? Like, was it because everything closed down? Or was that, was it already something that you were planning on doing at some point?

• 20:01Speaker 01

  No, I, I hadn't, you know, after the 50, I was, I was done. Like, it was over. Like, that I was satisfied. It was, it was good. And we were just so busy. We were so busy with everything. There wasn't an opportunity to do what's next. But I'd be lying if I didn't say I was always intrigued with what's possible. Uh, is there more?

• 20:22Speaker 02

  Once you had time to reflect.

• 20:23Speaker 01

  Once I had time to reflect, but there really wasn't, there really wasn't an opportunity because even if I wanted to carve it out, like, we were booking our speaking well in advance. And, and for me, you know, w- we, we live a great life now. And I was like, okay, I'd have to shut this down for

• 20:39Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  A year in order to do something like this.

• 20:42Rich Roll?

  Would that be the responsible thing is that?

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Right. And now I've got teenagers. I got four daughters. That means four weddings. Kids are starting to go to university. And I'm like, I'm looking at the cost of this. And I'm like, I don't, I don't have the luxury to not, to stop doing this over here to trying to push my limits even further. And the pandemic really forced my hand in, for lack of a better phrase, but just really put the opportunity on the table because

• 21:08Speaker 01

  literally 48 hours, my entire calendar got wiped clean. Every event canceled. My bureau called me. They're like, hey, we just had the entire year's worth of events canceled.

• 21:20Speaker 02

  Your month of March was, I mean, minute to minute. He had six weekends in a row of racing. It was packed. So not only was it wiped clean, but it was. Like I was inconsolable because I was like, oh my gosh, this is going to be an intense six weeks and then gone.

• 21:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah. But I love the perspective shift. I mean, you can kind of wallow in misery and self pity over that, or you can use the pause to figure out how to level up. And one of the things that I didn't realize about the 50 was the extent to which you guys were going through a very difficult kind of financial time. I mean, I've gone through something similar to that and using the 50 as a way like, well, here's what I can do. Like, things are not working out and we're having trouble making ends meet, but I can do this one thing. And there's a, there's kind of a big faith piece there that if I do this, somehow the universe will conspire to support me in a new and unique way.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, for sure. And the, you always get asked, what's your why? What's your purpose? What's your reason for doing something? And people always ask too, well, why, why didn't you quit? Or how do you keep going? And on the 50, like our reasons were so strong. Like it was get our lives back, change the, the direction of our lives and quitting wasn't on the table. And then to contrast that to the 100 and the reasons why you're doing it are very, very different. Like we're established in, like it was a huge dice roll for me to double it because now I'm risking the criticism that we took on the 50. Like you don't make it past 50.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  So that, you know, that really rings true on, when you just said on week one, things started to go sideways and you're like, I'm risking my entire career and decades worth of work for this new project that I don't have to do because now the, the reasons that I was doing the 50 are very different than they are doing now. And this, this, the 100 was truly, what am I capable of mentally and physically? Because we've, career wise, there, there wasn't a huge uptake. There wasn't a huge like benefit to doing it. Like I was already established in my speaking career. We've already got the book, the documentary, everything's going great. And so it was really like, well, why are you doing this? Like what is, what's the risk reward to what you're doing?

• 23:40Speaker 02

  What's the answer to that?

• 23:42Speaker 01

  Why did I do it? It was for me. It was personal. Yeah, absolutely. It was redemption. I believe a lot, a part of it was redemption for me.

• 23:48Rich Roll?

  Well, you had told me that part of it was motivated by sort of silencing the critics because there was a little bit of mumbling about the 50 because of circumstances, et cetera, a bunch of nonsense.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:02Rich Roll?

  So it was about putting that to rest.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  There was, there was definitely a huge, huge part of that for me personally. And a, a big part of my platform is like, look, don't listen to the grumbling, the haters, don't give them any power. And at the same time, I was like,

• 24:17Speaker 02

  They're eating me alive.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  They're eating me alive. And do you flip that coin and say, well, is there a little bit of reason to what they're saying? And are they, you know? And you really have to have that. That's a, that's a hard conversation to have with yourself, like balancing and reckoning those, those thoughts. And okay, is what they're saying truth? And is there some validity to it? And, you know, over the course of five years of speaking on stages, you start to, you get off a stage and you post something that you did. And it's just one, one person says something online. And you're like, well, am I a hypocrite? Did I really do what I said I did? Am I presenting what I truly believe? And then I had this opportunity when the 2020 hit, like I, I have an opportunity to reset history. And when we were on the

• 25:02Speaker 01

  course of the 100, man, day 51 was huge for me. Well, I even had little landmarks too, right? So make it past day 18 when you crashed your bike, fell asleep and crashed on your bike. Make it past day 19 when you got on the elliptical, right? You make it past that and you're like, okay, I've reset that piece of my history. I've reset that piece of my history. That's no longer on the table. And then you make it past 50 and now you're 51 and every day you wake up, you get to break a new world record. And then that becomes fun, right? And so there was, for me, there was a, this was the tale of two halves. There was so much pressure on me personally that I put on myself to make it back to 51. Right? Because you don't, you don't, you don't get to 51 and you personally discredited

• 25:46Speaker 01

  everything you've done in the past. Because if you, if they didn't think you did it the first time, you certainly didn't do it the second time if you fail. And so for me on my journey, that first 50 was like so important to me. And I remember having conversations with Aaron on the bike every single day. Okay, this day means this, this day means this. Once we make it past here. And the back half became every day, just like this is who we thought we were and who we said we were.

• 26:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, what I hear in, in, in sharing that is this idea of setting an audacious goal, but the path towards accomplishing something that is seemingly impossible is to break it down into these little chunks. I mean, it's truly about what you're doing in the moment. And there's a broader conversation that we can, we can have about being present and the mindfulness that you have to bring to each moment and just focusing on what you have to accomplish in, you know, the next day, the next hour, whatever it is. But having those little benchmarks and then allowing yourself to celebrate them is the fuel that keeps you engaged with something that, you know, otherwise is just too overwhelming to even process.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  Well, two, two different things. One, that moment happened early on, like when you said, looking from the outside, looking in, that things went sideways. It was probably about day 15, when my shin was at the, the peak of its pain, the first shin problem, was at the peak of its pain. And literally every step I took, I thought I was going to break my leg. And I just continued to manage it. And I remember finishing one day, it was probably around 15. And I said to Sunny that night, I said, hey, I don't, I don't think I can manage that level of pain for 85 more days. Something has to give. And full knowing that something maybe wasn't going to give, Sunny just said, hey, look, this is the best advice I got on the entire hundred. She said, hey, the work is done today. Do you remember this moment?

• 27:33Speaker 02

  Of course I do.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 27:34Speaker 02

  It happened more than once.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  She said, I remember the one, but she's Dropping the truth bomb. Because, because I was like, hey, I just, like, I would kind of just shrug my shoulders and just complete.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  Totally demoralized.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  I was totally demoralized, totally dejected. Because I was the one that was managing the pain and I couldn't, I couldn't like voice, voice how much I was dealing with. And

• 27:58Speaker 02

  I don't think you could even conceive it because your mind wasn't even, I mean, there was so much dissonance in the mind and the body.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  You know?

• 28:07Speaker 01

  And so I remember saying, I don't, I can't manage that level of pain for eighty-five more days because I knew what that took. And she said, you don't have to, the work is done today. And, and I was like, what? She's like, just trust in your team. Let us take care of you tonight. You're done today.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  He was in the shower.

• 28:25Speaker 01

  I was in there.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  I said, you're in a hot shower because it was freezing, right?

• 28:28Speaker 01

  It was cold, too.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  I was like, you're in a hot shower.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  We were dealing with so much that first two weeks. And so, and she said, we have no idea what tomorrow is going to bring. You could feel totally different tomorrow. And I felt like crap the next day. But we did turn corners and that, that became, for me, the mantra of the entire campaign was, do the work today, do everything you can, allow the team to take care of you, and then let's face tomorrow when tomorrow comes.

• 28:55Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  And then for me, deeper into the campaign, back to, you know, what we were just talking about, about how we had those benchmarks in the first half was really me resetting history, or my history. Um, SlowTwitch has been one of the biggest haters.

• 29:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Of, of me.

• 29:15Rich Roll?

  The SlowTwitch forum is not a, is not a friendly place.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  It's not a friendly place. And, I mean, they were ruthless towards me. And I've actually had the owner of SlowTwitch reach out to me recently and wants to sit down.

• 29:27Rich Roll?

  Uh-huh.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  Um, which I'll do.

• 29:29Rich Roll?

  Herbert?

• 29:29Speaker 01

  Uh-huh.

• 29:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, which I'll do. Um, but there was a point in the hundred where Aaron had gone on, Aaron's one of the wingmen, and he had gone on to SlowTwitch and he said, hey, they have started a forum that says, James has done it. And this thread is nothing but positivity about it. And in that moment, when Aaron came and said that, I was like, I friggin' turned SlowTwitch.

• 29:53Rich Roll?

  How many days, how many days in were you at?

• 29:55Speaker 01

  Oh, well past halfway.

• 29:56Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  So we had re-

• 29:57Rich Roll?

  So it took that long before you could ship that Titanic around?

• 30:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, but for me, that was like, that was like the last, like- Thing for me to reset my history and unfinished business for me was like, hey, SlowTwitch, I started a positive forum about you. And I'm like, whoa, that's amazing.

• 30:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  So that was kind of my moment.

• 30:16Rich Roll?

  That's no small thing for anybody who's familiar with that ecosystem.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  Exactly. And so those kind of two moments for me were really pivotal. That conversation with Sunny, early, early on, where I was completely broken, couldn't conceptualize 85 more, and then fast forward all the way to where we'd reset history, we'd made it past all of those personal benchmarks of mine, and then SlowTwitch starts a positive-only forum about the Iron Cowboy, who has been their biggest target for years, in years and years.

• 30:44Rich Roll?

  So, obviously, Sunny, you know, this is a family decision. So, did James come to you with this idea? Did you concoct this together? Like, what does that look like as a family with five kids, when 14 weeks are going to be monopolized by this endeavor, and it's going to take everything that all of you guys have? And you've got kids who are living their own lives and need attention and care. Like, how does all of that work? Because if there is, you know, a sliver of criticism out, it's like, oh, they're, you know, they're, this is selfish, and they're, you know, they're shirking their responsibilities with their kids and all of that. And like, as somebody who knows you guys, and visited

• 31:25Rich Roll?

  twice during this event, and, you know, bore witness to what was going on, like, this was a family adventure, completely. Like, all your kids are in, I mean, you know, Lucy, I mean, forget about it. We can do a whole podcast on how amazing she was throughout this whole thing. But what did that look like as a family decision and as a family affair?

• 31:46Speaker 02

  We had conversed and researched some other projects. So, a couple of years after the 50, James was like, you know, I kind of had some ideas. And so we kind of researched some ideas and never really working out.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  There's a lot of pressure from sponsors. Hey, what's, biggest question, what's next? What's next? What's next?

• 32:05Speaker 02

  And he's a dreamer. So, you know, his mind is always brewing. So, we thought about all these different ideas, and they weren't really working. And, um, James has a lot of ideas. You guys only see what happens. So, as we kind of went through the ideas...

• 32:21Rich Roll?

  You can box Jake Paul or something.

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Sure, why not?

• 32:23Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  Let's go. Where's McGregor? Where are you?

• 32:26Speaker 02

  Where's my 100 million for the bike?

• 32:28Speaker 01

  I'm due for a payday, Rich.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  So we had kind of explored these different ideas, but I hadn't gotten all caught up in them because you have to, there's so much complexity to preparing them. That my mind was open to ideas, but I wasn't necessarily concerned about the investment yet. And then as they continued to fall through and, oh, these aren't going to work the way we thought would. He said to me one day, early in that year, maybe May, he's like, you know, I just keep thinking about doing a hundred fulls. And I was like, really? Because he had, he had kind of not been soured, but had been turned off by the 50, just because it had been so intense. That I was surprised that he was going to consider something in that same type of realm, but even harder.

• 33:15Speaker 02

  So I was like, oh, that's interesting, you know, and then a week later comes back, he's like, no, I really can't stop thinking about it. So we kind of talked about it for a couple of weeks and finally I said, if you can't stop thinking about it, that's God telling you to do it, which makes no sense. I mean, everything James has ever done in his life makes no sense, including sitting on a Ferris wheel for 10 days. You know, it's like, there's no, there's no logic to James's goals and dreams and aspirations. So he was like, I'm going to kind of dangle a carrot, talk to some sponsors, kind of feel it out, do a little research and see how I can maybe make this work out.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  And how it would be received.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, how it would be received, how much support I could get, you know, if it, if it really is something that could work. And so in August, he said, hey, it's going to work, everybody's in. And when you realize how long it is, then you're saying, okay, my gosh, how are we going to, how are we going to fit this into a four season year? In Utah, we've got four seasons. So he said, I'm either going to catch an early snow or I'm going to catch, I mean, a late snow in the spring or an early snow in the fall. So we are less likely to have an early snow in the fall. And if you do, it's just going to be a one day thing and melt. So we kind of established the idea of starting in August, doing August, September, October. In Utah, we have a lot of sunshine in the winters and, you know, we don't get snow till a little later in the year. So we're like, this is going to be great.

• 34:35Speaker 02

  And then he comes to me and says, hey, I keep feeling like we should do this in March. I was like, March? He's like, yeah, March 1st. I'm like, really? So I kind of sat up for a couple of days and then I looked at my calendar and I was like, you can't do it in March. I mean, I had the entire spring planned out from my 40th birthday to spring break to all of these things on this calendar. And I was like, James, if you do this in March, it's going to completely disrupt my year.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  It quickly came, don't talk to me about this until after Thanksgiving and after Christmas. Then I'll process.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, so I said, he's like, okay. And then he kind of came back again. He's like, I just feel like we should do it in March. And I was like, oh, my gosh, right now, in this moment, I hate you for this. Because James is a person of conviction and he's not going to come to me and say, I think we should do this unless he actually thinks we should do it. He's, he's not bluffing on stuff like that. It's just not his personality. If he's passionate about something, there's something to it. So I was like, I hate you right now because I know this must be the right thing to do, but it's going to ruin my life. So this was like in November. Our anniversary is at the beginning of December and

• 35:49Speaker 01

  Our 20th.

• 35:49Speaker 02

  He, he's like putting in little blurbs like, you know, this and that. And I was like, I don't even want to talk about it. Like, I have to process this. Like, this is really going to mess my year up. And so our anniversary came, we were obviously stressed out our mind planning for the 100. I said, we got to do something. It's our 20th. We always travel, but obviously last year was different with COVID and everything. So we just did a staycation in Park City and we got to dinner and he's like, I can't do this without your support. So you're telling me we can do it, but I know the support's not there. I know you'd have, don't have your own conviction or whatever. And so I was like, you just need to give me time to process this. I did a lot of praying and within two weeks I was like, okay, I'm all in. He's like, you're all in?

• 36:34Speaker 02

  Shocked, right? Oh, my gosh, you're all in? Are you sure you're all in? I'm like, I'm all in. Like, because at that point I had my own conviction, like God had told me myself this was the right thing to do. I knew. And so I just canceled everything. It was like the year was canceled because I knew from March to June. I mean, we had Easter and graduation and birthdays. I mean, just so many things that I, I was like, okay, I'll do the best I can to prepare for these before we start going so far as to packing Easter eggs and preparing all the baskets and putting them in my closet. So that when it came, because with the 50, there were a lot of promises of it's going to be this great adventure. It's going to be super easy, blah, blah. And then it was complete havoc. So I'm like, I know the idea is that this will be simpler because we're

• 37:17Speaker 02

  at home, but the reality is I know that won't really happen. So I was trying to plant everything I could before we started. But then I knew, I knew it was go time. And I knew, so whenever James would struggle, I knew it's what we were supposed to be doing. And so I just always looked for a way through it. He couldn't do that because his mind wasn't there. So my job was to be the sound mind to that experience and to rely on the faith that I knew it's what we were supposed to be doing and to seek solutions.

• 37:47Rich Roll?

  And to be all in, I mean, it was all consuming. I mean, your house was completely taken over as this HQ for this thing with all kinds of people there.

• 37:55Speaker 02

  Everything I've done is gone, right? It's like, there's no, there's no pickleball.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  I ruined our 20th wedding anniversary and our 40th birthday. It's two huge landmarks.

• 38:07Rich Roll?

  It's the day of atonement, James.

• 38:09Speaker 02

  But really, I wasn't going to try to find balance. It was not appropriate. The balance would come later. That hundred days was about this project. It was about James's project. I knew I would have my time later. There was no need for balance. It was literally just dive in and go for it.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  Well, and when she signs off and says, I'm all in, I immediately panic because when she goes all in, it's all in. And then I realize, yeah, it's official. And I'm like, I only have four months to get ready for this and I'm nowhere close physically.

• 38:40Rich Roll?

  And that March start date, I mean, I mean, I'm watching this on Instagram and I'm like, it's snowing every day. It's freezing. And you keep thinking like, well, just maybe a couple more days of this and it'll get nice out. And, and that winter just extended, you know. I saw how the heat affected you at the end. So I understand the logic of that. Obviously you do better in cold than in heat.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  Well, and if you look now, the fires that we're dealing with, like Utah has literally the worst air quality in the world right now. And this would be the month two of three months of doing it. And we'd be dealing with the heat and. Literally, one week after we finished on June 8th or June 9th, um, 107 degrees outside, pavement temperature was 120.

• 39:25Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  One week after.

• 39:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that would have buried you.

• 39:29Speaker 01

  Oh, it just would have completely.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  Well, and the other part was, is that the family was occupied, right? So it didn't consume their summer. So the kids were still in school. My job was to make sure they were still living their life, feeling like they could just be themselves and enjoy this journey. And so they were still in school, they were still working, they were still doing their normal things, and they just enjoyed the hundred. They jumped in where they wanted to and they enjoyed it.

• 39:55Rich Roll?

  Except for Lucy.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  The timing is beautiful.

• 39:56Rich Roll?

  I mean, this became a full-time job.

• 39:58Speaker 02

  But she wanted that.

• 39:59Rich Roll?

  She crushed it.

• 40:00Speaker 01

  She did. I want to say quickly too, for the listeners that, that maybe don't know us, is we, we have five kids and four daughters, one son, and during the campaign, they were ages 11 through 18. And so, just for the, for the new listener.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, they can enjoy it.

• 40:15Speaker 01

  Who doesn't know who we are.

• 40:16Speaker 02

  And then Lucy, of course, was the project manager of Swartz and James's assistant and ran all the social media. That's like her dream job, though. So although her stress level was like to the max, oh man, that's exactly where she wanted to be.

• 40:29Rich Roll?

  Did she, she ended up getting a job out of this, right? Like any brand who was watching what was going down.

• 40:34Speaker 01

  Well, she got a job offer from Visa as an apprentice and I was like, no, no, no, she's mine. So I've hired her full-time. She runs, yeah, she runs my.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  She had a lot of dates that she was asked on and she had a lot of job offers, all of which she turned down.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Jobs and dates.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  She's like, why are these people trying to date me online?

• 40:49Rich Roll?

  She earned it. She was on point the entire time. It was unbelievable.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  She was special.

• 40:53Rich Roll?

  So let's talk a little bit about some of the obstacles you faced. I mean, you alluded to the shin problem and the ankle problem early on. That got ameliorated by this brace, like this custom kind of carbon fiber thing that you got at some point that allowed you to offload some of the pressure on your shin.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I think any journey, especially if you, a, a longer journey, to be successful and any, anybody that's been on a journey will say that there was a little bit of luck involved. And this brace situation was a whole lot of luck, or Jesus, a bit of both. It just so happens, the number one guy in the country that makes custom carbon braces for ankle and shin problems, lived off of the trail that we were running on. Like, he had just moved there. And one of the cyclists-

• 41:43Rich Roll?

  But in London?

• 41:44Speaker 01

  In London.

• 41:45Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  One of the cyclists that joined us is an orthopedic surgeon that refers all of his post-surgery clients to this outfit. And so I was on the run one day, and he, he obviously got wind that we were struggling and my shoe was bothering, and he says, "Hey, have you ever considered a carbon-plated shin brace?"

• 42:05Speaker 02

  It's an insole for your shoe. The brace just holds it to the leg, but it's a carbon insole to absorb the shock.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  And I said, "I don't even know what that is, so I obviously haven't considered it." And he goes, "Let me talk to my guy. What it is, is it's a carbon, like Sonny just said, a carbon plate that goes on the bottom of your shoe, that they fit custom, and then it's got a bar that goes up the side or the front, depending on the, how strong you want it to be, and then, and then it anchors on the top of your calf. Essentially, that carbon plate and the anchor point with the bar completely offloads that shin and allows it to heal. And I said, "Well, can people walk in it?" And he goes, "People can run in them." And he goes, "The first version will put you in, we'll completely offload it, it's pretty restrictive, you'll be limited to walking.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  But as we see, and if we see progress, we can get you into a running brace." And so, we started with that one, and he would meet me at each one of those intersections off the trail, and he's like, "Do you have any..." Like he just said, "These are normally custom, but we're gonna give one to you, I've got one, and we'll have to, we'll have to tool it and tweak it as we progress." And so he'd give it to me, I'd put it on, he goes, "The goal is to have no touchpoints on your leg." And I was like, okay, it's touching here and here. And he would take it into the back of his van. And he would machine tool it and he would like quickly get to the other intersection before I got there. And we like, put this on. And we did that over the course of 26 miles. And by the end of that day, we had a brace that was somewhat custom to me, but it wasn't touching any part of my shin.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  Relieving all pain and allowing me to progress.

• 43:42Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  And so then every single day, we would, we would go through and manage the level of pain that I was having and where this brace was touching. And we would tweak it and he'd, he'd come out on different days and make sure we were still progressing. And I ended up being in that brace for three or four weeks. And then we upgraded to the, the more flexible one. Um, which allowed me to, to run some sections in it.

• 44:06Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  And it was just, it was the thing that allowed us to continue because I, like I said.

• 44:14Rich Roll?

  You told me that it was so painful, you literally thought you were going to snap your leg. And you were willing to snap it. You're like, I'm going to snap my leg before I quit this thing.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, it was going to get to the point where that, that it was going to snap and that's what was going to make, allow.

• 44:28Rich Roll?

  That'd be the only circumstance under which you would stop.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  It was going to be the, it was going to be the narrative that the public would say, okay.

• 44:35Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  That is an acceptable reason. That's a justifiable and acceptable reason to stop. Anything short of that. You, you know, you're a quitter. And I obviously don't want that. And so that, that brace saved it because it'll, it'll literally allowed that stress fracture to heal while doing a full marathon.

• 44:55Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 44:55Speaker 01

  Every single day, including the, the bike miles. Now, what came with that? Was the imbalance that it created, which lightning bolted up into my hip, which then was the next thing. And that, that this project became, like I said, injury and management of injury. And it was this trickle effect or what's it called? Uh, one thing leads to

• 45:17Rich Roll?

  Domino effect.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, like a domino effect of, of injury because it started with the ankle, went up into the shin. You know, we dealt with that and we figured it out.

• 45:25Speaker 02

  Literally moved up through the body.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  And I, I just remember like, I was like, I have no shin pain today. And we're like, okay, we're clear. We can go. And the next day, my hip just exploded, like stopped me in my tracks. And I remember my therapist Hayden, he was like, can we not get one day where we're not dealing with something? And it just became this domino effect of I was always dealing with something.

• 45:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 45:50Speaker 02

  Like the busted up feet were the relief. It was like, oh, good. Today you're just missing the whole bottom of your foot with skin. So relieved. This is it today. You know, you're looking at his foot thinking, how does your foot look like this 85 days in, yet we're celebrating this because this is all it is.

• 46:07Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right, right. It's all, it's all perspective, you know?

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:11Rich Roll?

  Um, you told me some crazy stories about the sleep disruption.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:17Rich Roll?

  I mean, that just sounds terrifying.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  It was because, you know, outside looking in, someone says, oh, okay, he's done the 140 miles today. He can now go rest and recover. Well, that was the second side of that coin or that journey, right? So on the outside looking in, you're like, okay, he's doing the swim, the bike, the run, 2.4, 112, 26. And then they were like, okay.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  The complexities continued.

• 46:39Speaker 01

  Okay. He gets to go home and sleep and rest. Well, no, as soon as I got home, one, I had to refuel. Two, it's two to three hours of pretty intense therapy on the table.

• 46:48Rich Roll?

  You're on the massage table trying to eat, falling asleep while you're eating, while they're working on your body.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  Managing problems, solving problems. The, the house is chaos because everybody's there trying to do stuff.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  That's an understatement.

• 47:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then once, once everybody leaves and the therapy is done, it was around 11:00 PM, midnight most nights. They'd move into my bed. And then my second wave of like managing things would, would start. And the three biggest things that we dealt with was incredible hot sweats. Like we're talking.

• 47:19Speaker 02

  Sweating through duvets and I mean, like sweating like you've never seen.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  And then, and then that, that leads to, uh, dehydration problems, you know, and, and, and trying to keep yourself hydrated.

• 47:33Speaker 02

  Panic attacks.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  Panic attacks, night terrors, which finally went away.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  Well, the hyperbaric chamber after a while, we're like, you can't sleep in there because you can't just get out, right? If he's freaking out. We can't get to him, he can't get out. It was, it was wild.

• 47:49Rich Roll?

  And, and kind of not really just being able to get a restful night of sleep.

• 47:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:53Rich Roll?

  Right, like despite the extraordinary fatigue and you're laying there on the couch or whatever with Normatec boots on falling asleep, like you're sweating and

• 48:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:02Rich Roll?

  Having, and, and weren't you doing some sleepwalking too?

• 48:05Speaker 01

  Uh, there were some stories.

• 48:06Speaker 02

  Oh, there's, oh yeah.

• 48:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:08Speaker 02

  That was great stuff.

• 48:10Speaker 01

  The kids have some pretty funny stories.

• 48:12Speaker 02

  Loved it. That was the highlight of the hundred for them.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  I guess there was one time I went upstairs to just check on my daughters and I had no idea and I, one time I was wandering outside the house and Dolly was coming home from something and she was wondering what I was doing. I didn't, I didn't realize it and they were saying, hey, what were you doing outside last night? And I was like, I was in my bed last night. So these, these crazy stories.

• 48:33Speaker 02

  Which has no history of that.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  No recollection of it.

• 48:35Rich Roll?

  But it's so interesting, like what is going on physiologically that would cause that? Like why, I mean, have you talked to anybody? Like you should hook up with like Matt Walker and have him figure out like what was going on with you or what precipitated like that kind of strange situation.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  I don't even know how you quantify it or, or like study it now.

• 48:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Um, literally when I go home tomorrow, I'm, I go to a brain MRI, um, to where, cause I've been dealing with brain fog and depression and fatigue and things like that. Yeah, for sure. Uh, and I have good moments and bad moments and it depends on how much like mental energy I have to expend throughout a day right now. Uh, but there'll be a point where, of the day where if I've done a lot, I'd be like, Sonny, I think I need to just like rest or like I need you to drive home. Right after the, this is my favorite story. Right after the 50, I was driving down the freeway.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  Like at the finish line, leaving the finish line.

• 49:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  Was this leaving?

• 49:30Speaker 02

  Yes, because I was stuck with you. Everybody left. We had all this stuff and all these cars and no one to drive them home. So James had to drive the van home from the finish line of the 50 with all the bikes on the back.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm thinking of a different story.

• 49:43Speaker 02

  Oh, there's more than one.

• 49:45Speaker 01

  I get pulled over by the police on the way home from the 50.

• 49:48Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 49:48Speaker 01

  Um, and just had to have an interesting conversation with the police. But the one I'm talking about was after the hundred, the hundred was over. I'm sorry, I meant the hundred.

• 49:56Rich Roll?

  He's got brain fog.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. This fits perfectly to what we're talking about.

• 50:01Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 50:01Speaker 01

  I'm driving down the freeway and Sunny looks over to me and she goes, sweetheart, you're going 45 miles an hour.

• 50:06Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  And I was like, oh, okay, I'll pick it up a little bit.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  And he did for five minutes and then I was like, sweetheart.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  Because I.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  Now you're going 50.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  And I remember saying, this is, I remember saying, this is a lot faster than we were going on my bike.

• 50:18Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  You know, but you just, you know, slip into these, you know, bits of brain fog. And so right when I get home, I'm super fortunate, again, one of the only places in the United States that does this kind of study and testing for concussion and, and, and.

• 50:33Rich Roll?

  TBI.

• 50:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Post-traumatic stuff is in Utah and they actually put you into an MRI, they set up all the scans and then they ask you a series of questions and it's designed to light up every part of your brain. Once they take you through the whole protocol and then they can see where blood flow isn't going and which pathways are blocked and what's going on. And then they put you through an extensive 30 hour protocol based on the results that resets and rep patterns your brain, turns it back on. And so this is like super exciting for me, like professional, like a lot of football players will go there from across the country, NFL players or, or car accidents, concussion people, people that are showing like signs of Alzheimer's and things like that will go to this cognitive therapy place in Provo and, and I'm just so.

• 51:18Rich Roll?

  So you haven't been there yet, you're going.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  No, right when I land, I go from the airport to get those MRI scans and then based on the results, we'll start the therapy to kind of like reset my brain.

• 51:37Rich Roll?

  Okay, back to the show.

• 51:43Rich Roll?

  But when you finished, you did, you came down to UCLA like shortly after you completed the hundred and had a bunch of tests run. I mean, what was the, what was the upshot of that?

• 51:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we had kind of a baseline testing done at UCLA prior to, and they were mostly looking at like cardiovascular, heart, lungs, things like that, the size of it, what it does under stress, MRIs that way. And then they wanted to see, okay, if you put your body through, what the human body can do with, with, you know, 14,000 miles and then go and get stress test done, did we, did we create like heart murmurs? Did we create arrhythmic problems? Did we create all these things that we did damage to the body? And as Sonny and I have known, the body's an amazing piece of machinery. Um, they, we completely stumped the cardiovascular world and these cardiologists and they were like,

• 52:33Speaker 01

  you're, you're fitter and stronger and you've done zero damage to, to your heart.

• 52:37Rich Roll?

  And you, didn't you like break the record on the stationary bike there?

• 52:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, we broke the, the last record, um, just because I became such a, a solid cyclist over, I mean, you do, you do hundred, eight hundred miles a week.

• 52:49Rich Roll?

  After a couple of weeks of break, you got back on the bike and were crushing some KOMs around your hood, right?

• 52:55Speaker 01

  I PR'd around, around our Averhood, uh, and some of the climbs that we do. And for me, it was more like getting out was more mental than anything. Um, just because sitting at home and focusing on the fatigue and I'm tired and I'm depressed and all that, that just magnifies the problem. And so for me, getting out with, I mean, the cycling community really came out on the hundred. And so I had, I had developed a lot of really great friendships. Um, just, we'd sit on the bike for six, seven hours a day and just talk to, to these new people and this, the community really came out and said, this is our project too. We're protecting you. We're going to get you through this. And then a lot of the cyclists went through the same thing I did. They would come out two, three times a week for a quarter of a year.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  And then like overnight, that goes away and they're like, well, where's our group rides and where's that camaraderie? And where's, you know, we've, we've missed that. And so for me, getting back out was great for me. It was great for the community. It was great for those people that had their, their journey alongside our journey. A lot of people were struggling. I mean, COVID happened and the world shut down and a lot of depression and anxiety happened. And Utah happened to be one of the states and from the outside looking in, where like, we, we had still an opportunity to go outside and do stuff. And, and it was really great. And a lot of those people before, you know, we, we'd just come out of winter. And so people have been trapped inside and COVID and no families and a lot of people lost jobs.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  And so this was a project where it kind of like gave a lot of people hope and purpose alongside of what we were doing.

• 54:22Rich Roll?

  I think this is the, this is the real story behind the story. There's a lot of focus on, how did you do the, the hundred and like the particulars of that and the family, you know, journey that entailed. But truly, it's the community piece. And, you know, it was so impactful to visit and see not only like your town come out and support. I mean, it's like such a beautiful expression of solidarity, all these people who were just there for you guys in, in every which way. And then on top of that, all these people who flew in or drove in from all parts of the country, all parts of the world. I met people from Eastern Europe who, you know, flew out to

• 55:04Rich Roll?

  have this experience, to share this experience with you, people who were inspired by what, what you were doing and what you were sharing online. And just so many lives transformed. And I think that gets to this piece about finding the, the blessings in the misfortunes, like the fact that you were compelled to walk actually made it more accessible for a lot of people. And I think brought a, a larger, you know, contingent of people out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And became something that people could wrap their heads around, like joining you for a long walk.

• 55:37Speaker 02

  That part of it was so beautiful. That part of it.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can't tell you how many times every single day, one, Casey would do kind of a roll count on who, who's, who's here? Where are you from? And Casey did a great job at like including everybody, talking. A lot of days I wasn't in a good headspace to do it. I really focused on what I was doing.

• 55:55Rich Roll?

  I mean, I spent a lot of time talking to those guys. Like their job is to protect you, like keep you, because you're gonna get some, you know, some wacky people too, who, who, you know, are vying for your attention. And their job is to like, make sure that there's a buffer around you so that you, yeah, you could say hello, but like you gotta focus on what you're trying to do.

• 56:14Speaker 01

  And that was the amazing, the amazing part was Casey would do the roll call every single day. And then we'd start to hear about other people's stories and one where they came from. But then throughout the day, you know, we would, that was one of the coolest things for me to experience was People did give me my distance and respect what I was going through and yeah, just respected that. But what was a lot of fun was for, you know, five, six hours on the, on the walk run, you could hear the chatter and the people talking and sharing their stories and the subgroups and it just people that would have never crossed paths before. And every single day without fail, we had somebody say, or we heard, hey, we wouldn't, we wouldn't have been able to participate in this. We wouldn't have been able to experience this had James

• 56:58Speaker 01

  been running. And it was, it was just one of the coolest things that happened was the one, you know, you said community, community was huge. But two, my, my pain and suffering and injury became a blessing to so many other people that badly wanted to be part of what we were doing, but otherwise wouldn't have had an opportunity to do so. And we were just talking at lunch about this five-year-old kid who had just turned six. Do you know that story?

• 57:27Rich Roll?

  Um, I don't know.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  Jace, little Jace?

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Oh, I do. Yeah. But tell, of course. So, yeah, it's a really cool story. And this, this kid says, you know, he's, he was a neighbor of Casey's and the dad said, okay, we'll go out because the kid really wanted to do part of the walk with us. And, and people don't realize we were walking at a pretty decent pace.

• 57:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  And a lot of we, if we did take a criticism from the, the elites, it was that we were walking and.

• 57:53Speaker 02

  I had to run. I couldn't walk that fast.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:56Rich Roll?

  It was a brisk walk.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  We were walking to get a clip and we blew a lot of people.

• 57:59Rich Roll?

  I was falling off the back a couple of times. I'm like, he's moving pretty good. Like I gotta, I gotta start running here to catch back up.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  And so this, this little kid just got inspired and motivated and said, I want to go do a couple of miles with the Iron Cowboy. And the dad was like, okay, we'll get your shoes, we'll get your shorts on, we'll go out, we'll pick our day. And he, he did, he knocked out three miles with us. And then his dad was like, okay, we're done. We did the 5K. And he's like, no, the Iron Cowboy's still going. I want to keep going with them. And you could see him as we started to progress and do more miles, he really started to struggle. But this kid had zero quit in him.

• 58:38Speaker 02

  Just bawling. He was just bawling.

• 58:40Speaker 01

  He was starting to cry.

• 58:40Speaker 02

  He was in so much pain.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  He was just in so much pain. He ended out knocking out 20 miles that night.

• 58:46Rich Roll?

  It's crazy.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  20 miles.

• 58:48Speaker 02

  And he had to jog. Cause he's just a little guy, right?

• 58:50Speaker 01

  You think of a five-year-old kid.

• 58:52Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's wild.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  Right off the couch, did knocks out 20 miles and then was just so upset. His dad ended up telling us that he was so upset that he wasn't able to finish with us. Because he just couldn't go any further. And so they plotted out another day. And he started before us while we were still on the bike and he knocked out five or six or seven miles. And then we eventually caught him and he stayed with us the rest of the time. And this five, six-year-old kid ended up doing a full marathon with us. And it was just one of the most unbelievable experiences. And we were with someone at lunch and they had just said, he hadn't been taught yet to quit. And it wasn't part of his culture.

• 59:34Speaker 01

  And so like, it begs the question, like, when in our adult journey did like, was that, is that a taught thing? Is that, when did it become acceptable? When did that be part of our culture? Cause that kid was just like, no, I'm in a lot of pain, but I, I want to do this and I'm going to endure until I finish.

• 59:54Speaker 02

  He was bawling. The last three miles, just crying and crying, just kept going.

• 59:58Speaker 01

  Crying with a smile on his face and just, and just pushing, pushing through. It was really, really special.

• 1:00:03Speaker 02

  And for his father to allow him. You know, a lot of parents are swinging in and rescuing this kid and Sean let him. Sean let him fight through those tears. Sean let him finish. Like, that's as beautiful of a story as it is that Jace gutted it out.

• 1:00:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And his sense of personal possibility now is very different than it was before that. But that's just one, I mean, he's the youngest, but there were so many people who showed up who had never done anything before, or were coming off of, you know, crazy weight loss stories and all kinds of stuff.

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  There's a lot of first marathons.

• 1:00:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think, I think. The power in what you were doing was that it normalized something that seems impossible to most people and just to see you doing it day after day after day and the walking piece made it accessible to people and so they're like, well, maybe I'll show up and I'll do a little bit and then they end up doing a little bit longer than they thought they would and then before, oh, I'll come tomorrow and I'll, and then they're doing like a whole marathon and there are people who are doing the full Ironman.

• 1:01:02Speaker 02

  Seventeen, eighteen fulls.

• 1:01:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, like people who would never sign up for an official Ironman. Showing up and doing the full thing because they see you doing it every single day and suddenly it seems maybe not as hard as they thought it might be.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  We just sent out hundreds of shirts because what we said to people is like you said, hey, come join us and if you do, all swim, all bike, all run with us, when this is over, we'll send everybody that finished to finish a shirt. And they finally came in and we literally, I mean Lucy's probably still packaging them up right now, but we've, we sent hundreds of.

• 1:01:37Speaker 02

  They did the full triathlon.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  They did the full, full with us. Hundreds, hundreds of shirts. We had four, four full boxes show up of shirts.

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  I mean, we ran out of bags and I counted how many shirts we didn't have bags for and it was 50. And that was after we ran out of shipping bags.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so that many people and most of them, it was their first, like they just, and we had people that would show up and like, okay, day 15, they're going to do part of the bike ride and see how the pacing goes and then they showed up and did part of the run.

• 1:02:05Speaker 02

  Or they would see who was finishing the full triathlon and they were like, well, that guy can do it, I can do it.

• 1:02:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  If that girl, we had, I mean Clint, a 15-year-old kid came out and did, had no like triathlon background at all.

• 1:02:18Speaker 01

  He had no clips on his bike shoes.

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, he bought a bike two weeks before or something and he gutted it out.

• 1:02:23Speaker 01

  He was falling over at intersections. He was so exhausted. It was so fun to see.

• 1:02:27Speaker 02

  Gutting it out.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  These, these young kids.

• 1:02:29Speaker 02

  Then he rallied and was bringing friends in and Hunter Sweeten, he's just graduated and he's Lucy's age and he's had a really rough upbringing and he lost 70 pounds, was doing 75 hard and this was his last final project. He did a full triathlon and he finished it two o'clock in the morning, well after the group had finished.

• 1:02:47Rich Roll?

  And what about the, I forget his name, the Hispanic guy?

• 1:02:50Speaker 02

  Takashi.

• 1:02:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:52Speaker 02

  I love Takashi. Yeah.

• 1:02:53Speaker 01

  He just posted a picture.

• 1:02:54Speaker 02

  Never swam, never biked, never ran, got it out that full thing.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  He just posted a picture as proud as can be with his Concord shirt on.

• 1:03:00Speaker 02

  He's the most delightful person on this planet.

• 1:03:02Rich Roll?

  And, uh, Safe, how do you say his name?

• 1:03:04Speaker 02

  Safe, yeah.

• 1:03:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah, Safe.

• 1:03:05Speaker 02

  Seth, oh Seth.

• 1:03:06Rich Roll?

  Seth.

• 1:03:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, from India.

• 1:03:08Rich Roll?

  Who, India by way of Dallas, like a PhD student.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:12Rich Roll?

  Who literally moved, like he was, he just set up shop in Linden.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  He did.

• 1:03:16Rich Roll?

  And was doing his classes remotely.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:03:18Rich Roll?

  And showed up for the marathon.

• 1:03:19Speaker 02

  Well, and when he finished.

• 1:03:21Rich Roll?

  Day after day after day.

• 1:03:21Speaker 02

  His last day was several days before we finished, but he was borderline hysterical to finish the line. Like, he just sat and hugged me and cried and cried and cried.

• 1:03:31Rich Roll?

  His life is forever transformed.

• 1:03:32Speaker 02

  He said, "This has changed my life forever."

• 1:03:34Speaker 01

  And, and we had, and another really cool story is an individual that followed us before the 50, through the 50.

• 1:03:40Speaker 02

  Alex.

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  Was a massive supporter, no, Josh Powell.

• 1:03:42Speaker 02

  Oh, Josh Powell.

• 1:03:43Speaker 01

  And Josh said, "My goal by the end of this campaign is to be able to complete one marathon with you guys." And he start, he would, he would start way before us and he would.

• 1:03:54Speaker 02

  He'd still get dropped.

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  And he'd get dropped and couldn't finish. And by the end of it, he did the last, I think, week's worth of marathons with us. He did a full marathon a day for seven days of the last part and was with us. And he just was so proud, had the biggest smile on his face, but he, he literally couldn't finish a 10K with us when he started.

• 1:04:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  And just, he just showed up every single day. He's got a special needs daughter and he would set up aid stations for us.

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:17Speaker 01

  And she was out there cheering for us.

• 1:04:19Speaker 02

  Full get up.

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  A single dad with, um, full, uh, you know, special needs daughter. And he was just like, "This is a goal of mine. I'm gonna do this with you guys. I'm gonna give you all the support you need." It's stories like that and Seth and, and Takashi.

• 1:04:32Speaker 02

  Well, and Alex, who followed us on the 50 and then came out and did his first full marathon. I think he started four hours before you.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  And his goal was just to finish the marathon.

• 1:04:39Speaker 02

  And he finished 10 minutes after.

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  10 minutes after us and which is bawling.

• 1:04:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:43Speaker 01

  Um, just, just these stories. And those are just the stories of the people that we got to interact with on, you know, on site.

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  We discussed.

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  The, the hundreds of, of messages globally that came in and said, "Hey, because of your journey, it has given me hope on my journey and this is what I'm struggling with." And, and, uh, individually, "Hey, I was, I was, I was about to take my own life and your journey started and it's given me hope and I'm fighting again." All, I mean, just, you wonder why, you know, for me personally, I wonder why I do things like this and. I joke that my gift is the ability to suffer. And there's not a lot of benefit to having this gift. And then we received literally hundreds of messages from around the world of these people that that say, your suffering has given me hope on the journey that I'm on. And that is just like soul shaking.

• 1:05:35Speaker 02

  And if they remember them, we remember names, we remember experiences.

• 1:05:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's really beautiful. I mean, there was a sense of that with the 50, every state that you were in, it seemed like you would pick up a few more people than the day prior. And there was like a momentum thing that was happening that culminated with you doing the final one in Utah and all the people that showed up for that. I mean, that was like bananas. So you had to have some sense that you could replicate that on some level. But I think just being in the same place every single day created this like force field, like a, like a tractor beam, right? That was attracting all of these people who knew they could just show up. It's like, hey, you know, people like, I got on a plane this morning and can't, you know, it was wild.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  It was wild.

• 1:06:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  It was wild. And, and we, we didn't know what to expect because travel restrictions and COVID and all that. And I, I just, every single day, what shocked me more was the cycling community that came out. Sunny would do a live every single day on the swim. And then she'd give me a rundown of the different countries that were, were live that day. And then we started shipping out shirts to like Lithuania and Poland and Iceland. And I'm, we're just like.

• 1:06:44Speaker 02

  Some country, I'm really good with geography and there's some countries that I'm like, I gotta look that up. I'm like, I've never had to look a country up.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  And I think, I think for me, what people need to realize is you never know who's watching and you never know who you can, who you're going to or who you can impact. And we had no idea that our small family and the journey that, and the crazy adventures that we do would end up being this global type of impact. And changing the way people think about the journey that they're on. And that was, that's so humbling, you know, when you think of this, how big the world is and to, and, and the reach that social media has.

• 1:07:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's really the best of what social media is able to do.

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, who needs media coverage? Not us. Social media did a lot for us.

• 1:07:32Speaker 01

  It's all, it's just so powerful.

• 1:07:34Rich Roll?

  I mean, it was like, I mean, I would just every day, like, okay, what's going on, you know, and it, there was something about the consistency of it, like this metronome, like, okay, here's when, like, you climbing out of the pool every day and putting the Crocs on, I was like, okay, I can start my day now. Like, he's out of the pool, he put the Crocs on, you know, like, I can go, like, out and do my things. Like, I gotta see the Crocs before I can, like, legitimately go out into the world.

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  He told me, he's like, this James is a swim towel that I got him out for Christmas. He just had their names and people, you know, were like, wait, what happened? You changed the James towel? Because James said it's not absorbent enough. I want a different towel. And then everybody freaked out. Whoa, whoa, oh, back to the James towel. So I hung a good towel in the bathroom and still wrapped him in that James towel.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  Because as, as normal and as routine, things needed to be for us. I think people started to expect this certain routine.

• 1:08:24Speaker 02

  The Crocs and the James towel.

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  The towel and me, you know, Lucy waiting for me to roll in off the bike and they just expect these moments every single day to happen.

• 1:08:34Rich Roll?

  Right, you gotta, you gotta capture that. As long as you get that one thing every day, like, that's, that's an important piece in the story that needs to be told every day.

• 1:08:41Speaker 02

  Which is funny because it was totally not the same for us every day.

• 1:08:46Rich Roll?

  Sure.

• 1:08:46Speaker 02

  But that created an illusion of

• 1:08:49Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:08:49Speaker 02

  Normalcy.

• 1:08:50Rich Roll?

  Normalcy, exactly. Adam Skolnick told me that, you know, when he was down, kind of like hanging out with you guys and he did the swim on either the second to last day or whatever it was, that, I mean, you did, I don't know, what did you, you, you, you just, you broke it up into a set of hundreds every day, right? So that the swim would be essentially exactly the same amount of time every day. But you would kind of come into the wall and then everyone would wait for you to go. Like, there's a weird, like, cult thing to that. Like, okay, James is pushing off, we can push off now.

• 1:09:21Speaker 01

  It was amazing. And I, I had to stand a certain way in the pool or I would immediately cramp up. And so I had to be very particular with where I stood, how I stood, how I pushed off of each wall. And it just so happened, we were on the far south lane and all the other lanes were to the north of us. And it just so happened, I had to stand facing south. So I never saw any of this type of activity because I always had to have my back to everybody else that was there.

• 1:09:48Speaker 02

  So Well, he wasn't the first swimmer. So first swimmer is kind of on, you know, the right side.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  Cause I had two paces.

• 1:09:54Speaker 02

  He's waiting here to get his turn to go to the other lane to head.

• 1:09:57Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:09:58Speaker 02

  So he wasn't even in position to face everybody.

• 1:10:00Speaker 01

  And then I saw some of the coolest footage I'd ever seen. Um, it was, it was a drone and it was on day 100 when all lanes were filled and we would, I, I'd push off and all of a sudden all lanes would start to move and it was this like giant snake. And then when I'd stop, everyone would come in and stop and then we'd get going again. It was just this really cool.

• 1:10:24Speaker 02

  And he says that and I'm like, I saw that every day. You didn't see that?

• 1:10:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I never saw it until I, you know, once you start to break something down and look back on it, you start to see footage and stuff. Cause you, when you're in the middle of it, like I, everyone's like, oh my gosh, Sonny's closet talks. Have you seen these? And I'm like, no.

• 1:10:39Rich Roll?

  No.

• 1:10:39Speaker 01

  I haven't seen, like, I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Like, oh, Sonny's closet taco was epic today. And I'm like, okay.

• 1:10:46Speaker 02

  He's like, what is a closet?

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  What's a closet talk? And they're like, the wingman, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, what are you guys talking about? And it was all these things that became normal to everybody else that I had no idea was happening.

• 1:10:57Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:10:57Speaker 01

  Cause like the wingman breakdown happened when I was getting therapy, the closet talk happened.

• 1:11:01Speaker 02

  Wingman wrap up.

• 1:11:02Speaker 01

  Wait, there it is. Wingman wrap up.

• 1:11:04Rich Roll?

  Yes.

• 1:11:04Speaker 01

  So all these things would happen that I had no idea. So when I saw that really cool footage of that snake that you were talking about and, and when everybody would push off the same time as me, I was like, that's really cool.

• 1:11:14Rich Roll?

  What day was the bike wreck on?

• 1:11:16Speaker 01

  Fifty nine.

• 1:11:17Rich Roll?

  Fifty nine?

• 1:11:18Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:11:18Rich Roll?

  That could have toppled the whole thing.

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  Well, well, here's, here was a very interesting part about that wreck. One, it was very violent. It was, it was, it was. The hardest I've ever crashed. I believe I got knocked out.

• 1:11:31Rich Roll?

  I didn't realize it was that bad.

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  It was that bad. And I think that's part of, part of the, I got a concussion that day for sure. And what was interesting was the decision I had to make because I had reset my history. We were at 59 and I had done everything that I'd set out to do. And that was one of those things like your leg snapping and a bike crash, something catastrophic where the public goes, "Yeah, that makes sense. You couldn't continue. We get it." And so that was one of those moments where I like had to really gut check and be like, "Oh, okay. We've, you've, you did what, you did enough that it's acceptable. You've made it past those personal benchmarks that you wanted. You've kind of reset history. Now you have a decision to make.

• 1:12:17Speaker 01

  Now it's, now it's a matter of doing 100 because you said you were gonna do 100. And, and keep going. And the moment, I remember laying there on the ground. And I came back to you really quick and they asked me that, you know, I could hear that my eyes were still closed. And I could hear them saying, you know, they were on the phone calling the ambulance. And I was like, "Ah, crap, it's over." Cause I couldn't, you know, when you crash, you've got so much adrenaline dump. And I was like, "Okay, they're calling an ambulance. Maybe I can't see. Maybe my leg's sticking out sideways or something." Then I realized it was for the other person in the crash and they, they got, it was way worse.

• 1:12:56Rich Roll?

  So it was a woman ahead of you. Something got caught in her spokes or something?

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. And she, it was like she ran into a brick wall and she went straight over her bars and her face was the first thing to hit the ground.

• 1:13:05Speaker 02

  Aaron says, "I looked to the left and all I see is a bike flying through the air." And he's like, "Oh my gosh, that bike's gonna land and just hit."

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  And I was the person right behind her. And so she, I hit her as she was in air. Cause it slowed her down, stopped her. But her face was literally the first thing to hit the ground. She was definitely knocked out and needed ambulance and medical attention. And as I was, as they were saying. You know, calling the medical, I was like, ah crap, this whole thing's over. And, and I, I reached up and I felt my collarbones and I'm like, oh, they're not broken. Right, that's the first thing. And then they asked me a couple of quick questions and I answered them right away and I'm like, I'm okay. And then I was like, yes, I crashed and I'm okay. And we're going to be able to continue because that just adds to the story, right? And then we made sure that she was okay, the ambulance was on her way and most of the cyclists stayed with her.

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  I went and talked to her and she was like, please don't wait for me, go, I'm safe, I'm okay. And she was super kind and uh, me and three other cyclists.

• 1:14:06Speaker 02

  Can you imagine how bad she felt?

• 1:14:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. Me and three other cyclists. Glad she's alright. Finished that bike ride, um, and then continued on. Yeah. And it was one of those, you know, it was one of those decisions or moments in the entire journey where it's like, okay, this is a pivotal decision. And I'd be lying if I didn't say like, okay, I need to weigh what public opinion is going to be on this decision. Cause during the 50, we made a lot of decisions and didn't care what public opinion was because we were on our own journey. We were figuring it out, nobody had done this before. But this one I did care because I wanted to get through this with a clean slate as far as public opinion is concerned. And so kind of those big decisions I made, I was like, okay, I'm conscious of what the public is going to do with this. And so I was like, no, we're going to continue, I'm capable.

• 1:14:51Speaker 01

  And that became, that became part of my decision process every single day was like, okay, am I capable of continuing or is this a good enough of an excuse to quit? Like, I'd wake up in the morning and I, and I was always amazed, I'm like, man, Hayden is a genius. Like, that guy put me together every single night. I'd wake up and I'd be like, crap, I can get in the water. Like, I don't have a good enough of a reason to not start today. And then I'd start biking and I'm like, no, I just don't have a good enough reason. And then I'd get on the run and I'd be walking and I'm like, well, my leg hasn't broken yet and this really sucks. And I'm managing the pain, but this isn't a good enough reason. And that became my decision process every single day. Is this a good enough of a reason to quit? Will the public buy off on this? No, okay, I gotta keep going. Yeah.

• 1:15:33Speaker 02

  My story with that bike real quick is that when he got up and rode off, everybody's like, I guess he's good.

• 1:15:38Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:15:38Speaker 02

  Like, he doesn't, that happened a lot faster than he remembers. He crashed, he assessed, he checked on her and he was gone. And all the cyclists were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, where's James? He's off, he's gone. So he made that decision that quickly.

• 1:15:52Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:15:53Rich Roll?

  What day was it when you made the little video before you got in the pool and you were tearing up? And you're like, I'm just gonna try today. Like, you look like you were, that was, I mean, I don't know if that was the nadir of the whole thing, but if there was a breaking moment, that looked like one.

• 1:16:10Speaker 01

  It was. And it was so interesting because I had never gone live before that moment. I didn't go live after that, like, I mean, even before the swim. And I just felt compelled to turn on my phone as I'm walking from the car to the pool. I mean, it's probably 200 meters to get to there. And for some reason, I turned on my phone and I was just gonna give an update on how I was feeling. And then I just got completely overwhelmed by emotion. And it was this insanely impactful moment for the viewers. And it just, it just like really resonated with people on the journeys that they were on. They, they really got to see, okay, he is, he is broken.

• 1:16:51Speaker 01

  He is really struggling and he still has 20 more days and he's not gonna quit.

• 1:16:56Speaker 02

  That's almost three weeks.

• 1:16:57Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:16:57Speaker 02

  I mean, 80 to 100 sounds close, but that's almost three weeks.

• 1:17:02Speaker 01

  Well, that was, that was also-

• 1:17:03Speaker 02

  That is a long-

• 1:17:04Rich Roll?

  It's the craziest thing with perspective. Cause you're like, I'm gonna do 20 Ironmans. People would say, that's insane, but you're like, well, you've done 80, you only have 20, like-

• 1:17:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:11Speaker 01

  And that became so frustrating for me because it was like, oh, you're so close, you're right there.

• 1:17:15Speaker 02

  So he's thinking, three weeks. The public's thinking, only 20 more, right?

• 1:17:20Rich Roll?

  Right. That's not how, I mean, it's coming from a good place, well-intentioned, but it's actually really not what you wanna hear.

• 1:17:27Speaker 02

  It's not how we process it.

• 1:17:28Speaker 01

  And so that was, that was really the peak, cause you know, I was going through all the pain. I was processing everything. I know what the family's going through at this point. I know what Sonny's enduring. I know we're struggling as a couple. I know all these things are happening. I know the wingmans are falling apart. Everybody's really struggling. Just be, it just showcased how long of a journey this was for that type of thing. And, and again, I don't know why, but I turned on my phone. I was just gonna share a few thoughts and then I had that breakdown moment. And- After that moment, that day's ride became very meaningful. Every single supporter that we had, that like the cyclists that would come out like once or twice a week, they were, I didn't know this, but they were all on a big text thread together.

• 1:18:13Speaker 01

  All the different try, I mean, all the different cycling clubs unified. That's so special. They unified during this time and they were all on a text thread and a text thread went out immediately. Anybody see that moment? Collaborating, who make sure there's people there. They all figured, every single one of them figured out a way to take work off that day. All of them showed up on that one day. It was super interesting because not a word was said on the bike ride. Everybody just said, it was kind of like, just like a memorial type of a ride where they were like, we're gonna get, we are here, we're gonna get you through today. You don't need to say anything and tomorrow we'll fight again.

• 1:18:55Speaker 01

  And to me, I think that was a big turning point in us getting to the finish. Cause for me, where I was sitting, not from the outside looking in, but from my journey where I was sitting, the last 15 were, were ultra flow state for me. And I was just, I knew after that breakdown and I knew after the community had come out. And when I had 15 to go, I was like, this is in the bag. And I agreed that we're so close, but that's when I became super flow state and just like every moment of every day matters. And then you look at my times over the last 15 days and we, we, it was a metronome type of state.

• 1:19:38Speaker 01

  It was just execution at a high, high level.

• 1:19:41Rich Roll?

  But was that, so that was the inflection point? I mean, what is the self-talk or the mantra or the, you know, the kind of go-to emotionally that you rely upon in those moments where you're ready to flip?

• 1:19:56Speaker 01

  On that day, 80?

• 1:19:57Rich Roll?

  That day or any other day? Like when you're up against it and you're backed into a corner and everything inside of you wants to quit, how do you, how do you crawl out of that headspace?

• 1:20:07Speaker 01

  You shift your focus to the community. And it, it becomes, you're not showing up for me, I'm showing up for the other people. And by that point in the journey, we'd received so many messages of, your journey has impacted me in this way. And then you have the conversation with yourself. What I alluded to earlier, we never know who's watching. You never know who you're impacting. And so you immediately switch the conversation to, if I don't show up today, who am I missing an opportunity to impact? And we'll never know, but who did we impact that didn't see or know of our story prior to day 80, tuned into it, and then we completely changed their paradigm,

• 1:20:51Speaker 01

  or the way that they look, or the way they experience what they're doing? Because we didn't stop or quit. And so that becomes the conversation of the mantra. It shifts from you, or me, to who are we going to miss an opportunity to impact? If we don't show up today? And you quit on day 80, and you don't get to have, in my opinion, the most impactful day, which is 101. That doesn't even exist. It's not even in the narrative. You can't set that example. You can't lead from the front. You can't bring everybody with you to that moment, without that conversation and that mindset of like, who am I missing the opportunity to help today?

• 1:21:34Rich Roll?

  I think something that gets missed in this story is the fact that you're able to, you know, execute on this goal by dint of the fact that you have incrementally worked your way up and accumulated knowledge and experience over many years and many challenges. And it's not a situation where, I think the instinct in people who hear this, it's so unrelatable. They're like, well, he's a crazy, superhuman person, and I don't get that. So, yeah, maybe he can, you know, throw some platitudes my way, but like, I can't even wrap my head around that. And the truth is very different. Like, it's not like you're this...

• 1:22:17Rich Roll?

  Your gift really is that you're able to suffer, but you have, you know, figured out a way to express that through these challenges that get incrementally more and more difficult over the years that allow you to kind of be in the place that you're in now. I didn't say that very articulately, but you know what I'm saying? Like, this starts on a Ferris wheel for 10 days. And, you know, it's not like you're out winning triathlons right away, or anything like that. Like, you have a very different path into this kind of thing.

• 1:22:47Speaker 01

  I think that is the most... Most beautiful or profound lesson that needs to be heard today is

• 1:22:55Speaker 02

  That is looked over.

• 1:22:56Speaker 01

  That is looked over, that you're, you're, nobody's the expert at the beginning of their journey. Nobody is, and, and you have to meet yourself where you're at today, and that be the expectation.

• 1:23:09Speaker 01

  The hardest thing to do is, is to start on any journey because that's where the highest amount of struggle is. That's where our experience and our momentum and our success is, is at its lowest. And a lot of people see the headline, the hundred, and think, oh, he's just born to do this kind of thing. And I, I, I love saying it now, that you, you can't go from zero to a hundred and miss all of the, the, the moments in between. I mean, our journey started with a four mile fun run that I struggled through. And Sunny and I got into sprint triathlons together and did that for four years before even taking on the scariest thing to us at the time, which was a half Ironman.

• 1:23:47Speaker 02

  I mean, it was 2004, November of 2004, was that four mile run? That was a long time ago.

• 1:23:52Rich Roll?

  Yes and no. Like, given what you've done, it's actually not that long ago.

• 1:23:57Speaker 01

  What we've accomplished on that time.

• 1:23:58Speaker 02

  Feels like a lifetime ago.

• 1:23:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:00Speaker 01

  It is, but, but, but the, the important message is, is that like,

• 1:24:06Speaker 01

  nobody would have said that that individual would have gone on to set sports endurance history. And everybody has a beginning, middle, and end to their journey. And we're not even close to our end, as far as like what are, what we want to do.

• 1:24:17Speaker 02

  Well, you don't always get to know what the journey is. Like even for us, we're like, well, we don't even know how this actually ends.

• 1:24:23Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:24:23Speaker 02

  Because we're still.

• 1:24:24Rich Roll?

  But it's the audacity to start and the courage to, you know, put one foot in front of the other. And I think a lot of people just get caught up in needing to understand how it's going to unfold. And they get paralyzed and never actually move forward.

• 1:24:37Speaker 01

  And, and two, there, that was beautifully said, but, but two, there, there, there are two, and social media, this is the bad part about social media, is they're comparing themselves against what other people are doing or showing that they're doing. And they say, I can't do that, and I'm not good enough, and that's what stops them from starting. And that, that's tragic to me because thankfully, social media wasn't big where, when, when we started, and I didn't have basis of comparison. And people are like, oh, who are your mentors? I mean, who are your mentors? And who's this and that? And who do you look on to? And I was like,

• 1:25:11Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 1:25:11Speaker 01

  I don't, yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't know.

• 1:25:14Speaker 02

  You still say your grandma.

• 1:25:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, because, yeah, there's, yeah, my grandmother.

• 1:25:19Speaker 02

  An immigrant that started a business and made a life for herself.

• 1:25:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's the ultimate American dream that happened in Canada. But, um, but I would not compare myself to what the current standard of excellence was. And I would go out and try to do what I believe was possible. Uh, and here's, here's the perfect example. At the time, when, when I said I was gonna do the 50, the baseline was kind of like the epic five, right? And had I looked at that and said, oh, the epic five is the standard of excellence at the time, which it was, I would have said, okay, I'm gonna double that standard and do 10. So why did I go all the way to 50? Because for me personally, I wasn't comparing myself about what others were doing and accomplishing.

• 1:26:06Speaker 01

  I went out and I set the, the standard of the bar to what I thought I could do. And that's where people get into problems and struggles is they, they are now comparing themselves to what they see the top, top guys doing. And they just get overwhelmed and they, and they don't start. And so there's, there's two sides to that coin, right? Don't, don't get sidelined by what you see people are doing. And then don't look at what other people are doing and do what you believe is possible within yourself. So there's two kinds of.

• 1:26:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but, but also you can be inspired by what other people are doing.

• 1:26:38Speaker 01

  Take it as inspiration, yes.

• 1:26:39Speaker 02

  Well, don't copycat it. Like, our society loves to copycat. Where James loved triathlon and loved sports and all of this stuff. He didn't copy anything that anybody else did. He found his own level of excellence, his own creative idea on how to be successful in the industry. It's fake, it's made up. He, he made this thing up, you know? What, what do you mean you're gonna do in a full distance triathlon in every state? What about Hawaii and Alaska, you know? It's this made up thing. So people should feel empowered to create their own dreams and their own aspirations based on what they see, but not copycat them. Get creative, do something different.

• 1:27:15Rich Roll?

  I remember, do you remember I saw you guys at the airport when you were heading to Hawaii?

• 1:27:20Speaker 02

  Met your wife?

• 1:27:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:27:21Speaker 02

  Just with a couple?

• 1:27:22Rich Roll?

  There they go, man.

• 1:27:24Speaker 02

  Listen to me, your wife was so nice and I could tell she almost pitied me. Like, these people, these people think-

• 1:27:32Rich Roll?

  I don't think so.

• 1:27:33Speaker 02

  No, this is what I felt like, like, these guys are so nice and I feel so bad they think they can do 50.

• 1:27:40Speaker 01

  It was this energy of, they're cute, it's naive.

• 1:27:42Speaker 02

  They're so cute, they're naive.

• 1:27:44Speaker 01

  Because she was coming from-

• 1:27:44Rich Roll?

  You make it sound condescending, though.

• 1:27:46Speaker 02

  It wasn't, it wasn't.

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  Because she was coming from the perspective of experience, having-

• 1:27:51Speaker 02

  With your journey.

• 1:27:51Speaker 01

  With your journey and whatnot, and she was like, okay, that's, I mean, even-

• 1:27:55Speaker 02

  She was so nice.

• 1:27:56Rich Roll?

  She was taking her lead from me, though, because I was like, this guy, like, he's gonna do something great? Like, I just don't, and I've said this to you, like, I think he's physically capable of doing this, but the logistics, like, if one thing goes wrong, like, the whole thing craters, and you think you're gonna go across 50 states and, and like, something's not gonna go-

• 1:28:14Speaker 02

  It was so kind, and it was so supportive, and it was almost like this, oh, you guys bless your hearts.

• 1:28:20Speaker 01

  It's amazing how much our journeys have kind of intertwined over the past decade.

• 1:28:25Speaker 02

  Wasn't that so weird to see you at the airport, though?

• 1:28:27Rich Roll?

  I know, it's crazy.

• 1:28:28Speaker 02

  That was the weirdest thing.

• 1:28:29Rich Roll?

  I mean, that's-

• 1:28:29Speaker 02

  On our way to Hawaii to boot, like, on our way out the door.

• 1:28:33Speaker 01

  I know the exact picture, I'm holding Quinn, he's got that green hat on.

• 1:28:36Speaker 02

  He's got sunglasses on there, like, crooked.

• 1:28:37Rich Roll?

  I know. And then you freaking went out and did it, and I remember coming out, like, it was emotional for me. Like, I don't know if you remember when we did that podcast after you finished, like, I got, like, choked up because I was so touched by what you guys had done and the manner in which you carried yourself and, and the way that you, you know, chose to express, you know, this incredible thing, and the community that you had built. And that was my first experience getting to meet Casey and Aaron, and like, those guys are just, I mean, they're unbelievable, those guys, you know, the positivity and the loyalty, and just the extent to which those guys, like, show up for you is a testament to you guys as leaders, because, you know, you don't get people like that unless you're, you know,

• 1:29:23Rich Roll?

  unless you engender that level of kind of like trust and, and love and respect.

• 1:29:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, they, they are huge, huge parts of our journey. And what's interesting is I have a different relationship with those two guys and Sonny has a different relationship with those two guys and their relationships with each other is different. It's just a very, and the way we got to meet those guys was so random and it was just happen chance that they were the only two guys available that would

• 1:29:47Speaker 02

  We didn't even know them.

• 1:29:49Rich Roll?

  We didn't even know them. But that's the way it works.

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  It is the way it works and they, and they have just totally become family and

• 1:29:56Speaker 02

  Well, Aaron did every one of those bike rides.

• 1:29:58Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:29:58Speaker 02

  Every single bike ride, Aaron was out there doing every mile.

• 1:30:02Speaker 01

  He's, he's about to go for a load of J.

• 1:30:03Rich Roll?

  And I gotta tell you.

• 1:30:04Speaker 02

  Whole focus was James. It was amazing.

• 1:30:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah. When I came out on day 91, I mean, it was great and all of that, but the highlight of the day was doing the wingman wrap up and the, in the, I was like, now I'm in it, man. I got to be on the wingman wrap up. Like my day, like this is why I came.

• 1:30:19Speaker 02

  You were the guest to them, not them the guest to you.

• 1:30:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. The special boys.

• 1:30:24Rich Roll?

  Uh, unbelievable. I remember, um, on, on, on the day 100, when I came out, you were so in the zone and like, it was clear, like you, you were trying to really minimize your, your, um, interactions with other people and just focus on, on what you were trying to accomplish. Um, but you did say, I was like, are you, cause you were walking and I was like, are you going to break out the run? And you're like, yeah, like my, I think you said at mile 20, you were gonna like, let it loose and throw it down and things didn't actually go to plan.

• 1:30:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. So we had that conversation on 91.

• 1:30:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  Because I

• 1:30:58Rich Roll?

  And then on day 100, I was like, okay, you're gonna, yeah, he's like, I'm gonna drop, you said, I'm gonna drop the hammer.

• 1:31:03Speaker 01

  Yes, as we were running.

• 1:31:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:04Speaker 01

  Cause I, I, I, from, on day 100, I was, oh man, I was being so patient and allowing my body to

• 1:31:11Speaker 02

  Wait, pause.

• 1:31:12Rich Roll?

  Run so bad. I wanna run so bad.

• 1:31:14Speaker 02

  And we knew there was a 101, but nobody else did.

• 1:31:16Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:31:17Speaker 02

  So then he's like,

• 1:31:19Speaker 01

  Well, because I'm sure we'll get to 101 pretty quick here, but we, we didn't make the decision to do 101 until that Sunday, the final decision. So three days before. And when I had talked to you on night-

• 1:31:30Rich Roll?

  You had the shirts made up and everything.

• 1:31:32Speaker 01

  In 48 hours.

• 1:31:33Rich Roll?

  Oh, you did. Wow.

• 1:31:34Speaker 01

  And they were hand delivered.

• 1:31:35Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's crazy. And, and people think it was planned because we had the jersey, but that, that was a-

• 1:31:41Speaker 02

  Everybody's like, how'd you get the jersey? We're like, we don't know.

• 1:31:44Speaker 01

  We don't know.

• 1:31:44Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 1:31:44Speaker 01

  Literally hand delivered in two days. But when we, when we had that conversation on day 21, I mean, on day 91, I was being super patient. My, my shin was healing. I didn't have any pain. I was on the other side of the hip. I was just like, I am going to run that last day. And right from the go, I started to run and I got to, I was so excited. Um, but I knew things started to go south because I had, I, I had already, I mean, obviously asked so much from my body and my mind. I mean, we're at the very tail end of a quarter of a year, had done something nobody thought was physically possible. And, um, I had just really nursed my body back to health in the midst of so much trauma and so much, so much stress. And I made it all the way to 19, Rich.

• 1:32:28Speaker 01

  I made it to mile 19 running. And then, like you said, if things went sideways in the beginning of the campaign, they went sideways on day 100 at day 19. And, and I don't remember a lot of it because I had to check out. And I just remember the, the wingmen were there and Felicia was there.

• 1:32:47Speaker 02

  Our 110 pound friend.

• 1:32:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I, and I just remember I would, I'd manage it, manage it. And then my legs just, I, I, I had, I had asked everything out of them and I, they would give out on me. And it'd get the, that collapse moments that I had gave me the 30 seconds to recoup. And mentally, we had a mantra and it was, here we go. And when you said, here we go, we start moving again. And I, I remember we were on the last out and back, headed out to 8th North and we probably had three miles to go. It was, it was after 19. I'd fallen apart. I had lost my, my goal to run, the whole thing. And I, cause I, I kept, my legs kept giving out on me and we were probably mile 22 or 23.

• 1:33:32Speaker 01

  And I, I lost it again and Felicia caught me. And, and I, right before I, I went down, I, I was looking at my watch and I said, how fast are we running? And she's like, we're running at 9:30. And then my legs gave out and I collapsed again and then I got back up and I said, I can do better than this. And she, her, her jaw dropped because she's like, you're on day 100 of a hundred consecutive Ironmans, you've given everything you've had or had, and your mindset right now is I can do better than this. And that's truly where my mind was

• 1:34:09Speaker 01

  because you, you wanna go out, um, kinda with a bang, like we did on the 50. And I had been dreaming of it for

• 1:34:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:22Speaker 01

  a long time on that run and being so patient, allowing my body and I've obviously asked a lot from my body. But that was, it was kinda that moment where, like, it was, it was a proud moment for me because I was at the end, but my mind was still there from my perspective. And I knew I could, even in that moment, I knew I could do or be more.

• 1:34:55Rich Roll?

  For people that don't know, I mean, you, in the final miles, you were literally collapsing. You were passing out and people had to catch you. Did you ever fall all the way down to the pavement?

• 1:35:05Speaker 01

  I didn't. And I, it's, it's crazy because I've, I've seen pictures now.

• 1:35:10Rich Roll?

  It was bad.

• 1:35:11Speaker 01

  It was bad. And I've seen pictures now where like Casey and Aaron are like right there. Any, any stumble or anything that I do, they are right there anticipating it. And I, I wouldn't have made it that last day without them, just because of the, you know, the pace that we're pushing. We'd done five hours on the bike course.

• 1:35:29Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 1:35:30Speaker 01

  Um, which is moving.

• 1:35:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:31Speaker 01

  Um, and so we'd, I'd asked a lot from my body just on that bike ride, um, knowing, knowing it was the last day, but also knowing. We didn't want to let on that we were gonna do 101.

• 1:35:42Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:43Speaker 01

  And I, I, and I had been telling people on social media the whole time, I'm, I'm gonna run 100.

• 1:35:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:49Speaker 01

  Brace yourself. If you plan to join me that day, we're moving. We're gonna go sub, you know, 12, 11. And, um, and then, you know, things, things fell apart. But at that, but at the back of my mind, I said, okay, I can't allude to the fact that I gotta get up and do this again tomorrow. So even after I broke myself and drove myself into the ground, I had to figure out a way to, to do, to do, to do it one more time.

• 1:36:12Speaker 02

  Good to fake celebrate.

• 1:36:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Yeah. I knew about it. You told, you told me about it. Adam knew about it. I mean, I remember.

• 1:36:18Speaker 01

  There was like six people.

• 1:36:19Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Adam, cause Adam would have known.

• 1:36:20Rich Roll?

  Um, I went down, Adam and I went down to the, um, finish line and we were kinda helping set up and all of that. And then Adam got word from Lucy, I think, like, oh, James is really struggling. He's a couple of miles out. And then we jogged up to like, join the group. So I was there. I saw it like maybe the last mile and a half of that. And I was like, oh my God, like, I don't think he's, like, he's so close and it just might not happen.

• 1:36:46Speaker 02

  And you're like, he's gotta do 101 tomorrow.

• 1:36:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I'm like, forget about that. Like, let's just get him, you know, into the track, you know, of the high school. Um, and then, you know, running around the track, like you came back to life and you started actually running pretty fast there at the end. I, I just couldn't believe, like, you were literally falling down. You couldn't figure out how to put your foot on the ground without tripping.

• 1:37:06Speaker 01

  Uh, it's just so crazy, the power of the mind. And when you're so close to something and the ability to turn it off, like Casey and Aaron were having a hard time keeping up on that last lap. And cause they had done the whole thing.

• 1:37:19Rich Roll?

  It was also really hot.

• 1:37:20Speaker 02

  And neither of them were trained for a full distance triathlon. And Aaron had biked all of those days.

• 1:37:26Speaker 01

  And so.

• 1:37:27Speaker 02

  So Aaron's like, I almost couldn't keep up.

• 1:37:30Speaker 01

  Aaron said, one more half lap and I would have, I would have fallen over. And I just, I just kept praying the entire time I was picking up that pace over the last two laps. I was just like, don't fall on your face in front of everybody. Don't, even though I'd been doing it for, for six miles prior, prior to this, but I'm like, you're in the grandstand now. Just, and every step I took, I just, I just was, I couldn't believe it. I was, I didn't fall over. I didn't fall over. I didn't fall over. And I just like kept. Kept just saying, stay on your feet, stay on your feet.

• 1:37:57Speaker 02

  How cool was that flag that you ran under?

• 1:37:58Speaker 01

  It was really cool.

• 1:37:59Rich Roll?

  It was very cool. And then 20 minutes later, you're up giving a speech, looking fresh as a daisy.

• 1:38:04Speaker 02

  Standing for like 45 minutes. I'm like, get the man a chair!

• 1:38:09Speaker 01

  Well, and then we did, I did pictures for

• 1:38:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:12Rich Roll?

  You guys were there for a long time.

• 1:38:15Speaker 02

  Pretending that there was no.

• 1:38:16Speaker 01

  Two or three hours, knowing, I'm like, okay, I gotta get home. I gotta get on the therapy table.

• 1:38:20Speaker 02

  So I left at 8:30 and you had left about 15 or 20 minutes before that. So you were out there by about 8:10.

• 1:38:27Rich Roll?

  The 101 just being like the core group, like just close friends.

• 1:38:31Speaker 01

  Well, and that was even, that was even special too, because I was planning on just, just me and Casey kind of doing it. Uh, we, we didn't know, you know, we had celebrated, we had celebrated and people probably wanted their, their rest too from, from the whole thing. And, you know, Lucy went live every single day, uh, on the swim and

• 1:38:52Speaker 02

  Sonny did.

• 1:38:54Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Sorry. Sonny did. Lucy would push the button.

• 1:38:57Speaker 02

  Lucy would push the button.

• 1:38:58Rich Roll?

  Yes.

• 1:38:59Speaker 01

  Um, and we wanted, we wanted that moment to where, um, it was just me in the pool. And that's why we didn't tell anybody. And I, I started that swim by myself. And the chat boards and text threads kind of lit up immediately.

• 1:39:16Speaker 02

  Exactly what we wanted, the element of surprise.

• 1:39:18Speaker 01

  We wanted that conversation.

• 1:39:19Speaker 02

  The dissonance of like, wait a second, he's swimming. Is this a recovery swim? What's happening?

• 1:39:23Speaker 01

  And I imagine people thought, oh, he's gonna, he can't sleep and he's gonna kind of give a breakdown of what happened.

• 1:39:29Rich Roll?

  Right. This poor guy doesn't know what to do with himself. So he might just go do it again.

• 1:39:34Speaker 01

  And then, uh, you know, by the time I finished the swim and, and got out of the water, the cyclist had

• 1:39:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, there were 12 cyclists there.

• 1:39:40Speaker 01

  Gone together and then started meeting us on the road. And then we did an undisclosed run location because we wanted it to be kind of friends and family and core. The, the day, day 100 was so chaotic. It's the opposite of my personality. It was so stressful. We had hundreds of riders out there and last thing you want to do is, is crash at high speeds on the last day when you're that close. And so it was a super stressful bike ride for me. Um, and then obviously the, the excitement and the emotion and the stress from that run. Um, and so we, I wanted to kind of go out on my terms and the feeling on that day was so different because we'd accomplished the goal. We did it.

• 1:40:16Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:16Speaker 01

  We did it. And so like, like the, the biggest of exhales happened. And then it was just this fun. Chatty core group of cyclists and runners that we got to experience and kind of go out on our terms and it was it was a magical day because you you knew you'd finished. There's no timeline. There's no expectations. It's it's the ultimate victory lap with your closest team and supporters from the past however long.

• 1:40:48Rich Roll?

  But it also sends a very loud and clear message that when you've accomplished your goal and done the thing you didn't think that you could do, you can actually do more.

• 1:40:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:00Rich Roll?

  And it's it it just was made undeniable.

• 1:41:03Speaker 01

  I would always get so frustrated speaking and and someone would always ask after the 50, could you have done one more? And I was like, they are not going to ask me if I can do one more after this 100. You know, and then like, like we mentioned earlier, this it was not part of the game plan. The week before, we started to put it into play and Zoka Cycling Clothing, we called her up and we said, hey, we have this idea. We know it's in three days, any chance? And she's like, send me the logo. And she was planning to her and her team was planning to drive and be at the finish line. And they handed that 101 jersey to Lucy at the finish

• 1:41:45Speaker 01

  line after. And I put it on the first time that following morning and came out in that 101 jersey. And so that was one of those little things that looked like we had a plan, but it came together so fast and everyone was willing to to do their part to make that day happen.

• 1:42:05Rich Roll?

  So you've had some time now to reflect on all of this, perhaps get a little bit of an objective perspective on what it was all about. So, you know, what is it like, what does it mean to you? Like, what is what is this all about? And has that kind of changed or evolved?

• 1:42:25Speaker 01

  You go.

• 1:42:27Speaker 02

  I don't think we know. So James thought, well, I need to take some time off afterwards, which just led him into depression and. You know, misdirection in his life and he's just barely now picking back up. He said, you know, in the middle of August, end of August is when I kind of picked back up. But I don't think we really know. I mean, my, my recovery didn't start till two weeks ago. Cause it's, you know, I had to care for James post and then we have summer and all the things we have going on. And so it wasn't until the kids went back to school that I finally like exhaled. So I don't even think we've actually had the time to reflect yet because the summer, even though it was supposed, I mean, it was very relaxing for James, but not for, you know, me and Lucy, for instance, or the other kids.

• 1:43:11Rich Roll?

  This is your time.

• 1:43:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:43:12Rich Roll?

  You get to do what you want to do now, I think.

• 1:43:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, it's literally catching my breath. Nothing has been routine since December for me until.

• 1:43:22Speaker 01

  Well, and here's, here's the way any project happens is there's a preparation, there's an execution. And there's, there's a post, which is in our case, it's recovery. And that recovery still was intense for Sunny and caring for me and me going through those struggles and, and going out of it. And so this has kind of been like this trip and kind of like, okay, kids are back to school full time. Kids are in their routine and this trip has kind of been like, oh, this is a kind of the first time where both of us have been like, almost stress free and relaxed into where we're starting to reflect. And so this, this actual talk has been kind of the start of what that, you know, on the other side of that process.

• 1:44:03Speaker 02

  It's the first time that I've really actually thought about it, to be honest. Cause even the last two weeks I've been doing all the tasks that I've been putting off since last December, like organizing the pantry and getting shelves hung in the garage. So I, I mean, I think this is the first time that I've really actually reflected on it. Other than reflecting every day, I kept a journal every day and then did my closet talk every day. So I had every, every day I was writing things down, but I mean, like there's some PTSD that still has to be worked through. That I don't, you know, I don't think either of us has really processed it yet. And we don't really know what's going to happen because it's, we still don't know nothing, you know? We made everything wait till August to happen. And now it's just barely August. So it's like, I don't think we really know. I mean, I can't speak for James, but for me.

• 1:44:48Speaker 01

  Well, for me, my, you know, Sunny and I have always been. On the same path, but different perspectives and different journey because our roles are very different. And my role now quickly goes back into provider and to where I'm, you know, speaking full time again. And we're planning on writing the second book and I'm working with the film documentary crew to produce the second documentary and different opportunities show up in my email every day and I could, you know, so I'm back into that world of, you know, business and trying to monetize what we did and trying to help as many people as we can and relaunch our coaching platform.

• 1:45:21Speaker 02

  I mean rewriting your presentation.

• 1:45:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, rewriting that whole thing. Yeah, rewrite that keynote. Yeah, getting the messaging back, you know, in it that we want. And we, we learn lessons and we evolve too on these journeys and we want to share those and teach those lessons too. I mean, I think if someone gives the same keynote for 20 years, they're not evolving as a person either. And if you, if you listen to my keynote over the past five or six years, it's the same story, but the lessons change. And, and where I put emphasis changes on them because I'm evolving as a person. And so what's next for me is very different than kind of what's next for Sunny, outside of like our family goals and raising our kids. But Sunny is loving doing podcasts and getting into speaking. It's actually what

• 1:46:07Speaker 01

  she wants to do and, and empowering people and.

• 1:46:10Speaker 02

  We get contacted all the time.

• 1:46:12Speaker 01

  And you, you and I had conversations recently, Rich, where like Sunny's the unsung hero of this journey. And people, every time I speak, people are like, uh, can we, who's your wife? And can we meet her? And she's an absolute. You have to wake up and just do one thing every day. Exactly. She's gotta do a thousand things and keep her eye on, you know, so many moving pieces. You know, I know Sunny more than, than most and she's, she's expressed many times how now's not the time, but now's the time to prepare for when she gets to tell her story and be on stage and do that. And so she's, she's got some exciting opportunities coming up and she's doing some, some speaking and prep work and she, her, her entire focus forever

• 1:46:55Speaker 01

  has been, and still is, the kids. And what an unbelievable responsibility that is and the amount of work and the attention to detail and time that she puts into each one of our kids is, is remarkable. Well, your kids are great. Like I love you.

• 1:47:08Speaker 02

  They're so awesome. They're born that way. I'm telling you.

• 1:47:11Speaker 01

  I don't know about that. Me either. It's a true testament to how much time and care and love and thought that Sunny puts into it. And but her her time is coming and that you know from my perspective, that's what's coming for her. She's just preparing.

• 1:47:24Speaker 02

  Kindling.

• 1:47:25Speaker 01

  Doing little things now that'll prepare her for for her true passion. Her true passion is teaching people and speaking and talking. And mine is like disappearing to the mountains on my bike.

• 1:47:34Rich Roll?

  But you're very good.

• 1:47:35Speaker 01

  I'm waiting for that day that we that we transition out of out of that.

• 1:47:41Rich Roll?

  If you have a chance to see James do his talk, like I, what was that like three years ago? When you were out here and you did it like it's very good. Like you're very good at that.

• 1:47:50Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:47:51Rich Roll?

  And I can't imagine how much it's evolved since I saw it. So, you know, if you have an opportunity to attend an event and to hear James share his story, it's something you should definitely check out.

• 1:48:02Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you.

• 1:48:03Rich Roll?

  I look forward to Sonny's version.

• 1:48:07Speaker 02

  It's so exciting. Maybe a little girly, I don't know.

• 1:48:09Rich Roll?

  I know. But part of that talk and and what you're all about is this subject of mental toughness. And I'm sure people say to you all the time, like, how do you develop mental toughness? Where does your mental toughness come from? Like, what is that about? How can I be more mentally tough in my own life?

• 1:48:27Speaker 01

  The number one question.

• 1:48:28Speaker 02

  Verbatim.

• 1:48:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I had to think about it a lot because I didn't know how to answer. Because I mean, if I could write out that formula for someone, my financial situation is completely different. But the reality is, is is just through discussion and presenting and really having the opportunity to to be and speak in 48 different countries and just all the different walks of life in different cultures. The number one thing is mental toughness. And and I've just realized it's only through taking action. It's only through like getting backed into that corner and then having the courage to take that next step, saying, my leg might snap, but I am willing to take that next step. And you you cannot learn it by reading it.

• 1:49:13Speaker 01

  You cannot learn it by hearing somebody. Those are all great, like sparks or motivation pieces to get you going on your journey. But ultimately, at the end of the day, you've got to show up. You've got to participate. You have to learn and you can't you can't go from zero to 100. And I couldn't have done what I did mentally without learning and struggling and developing and sharpening that thing. The, the, the big question topic, are you born with it? Or can you develop it?

• 1:49:41Speaker 02

  Nature versus nurture, the eternal debate, right?

• 1:49:44Speaker 01

  And, and my answer, just based on my personal experiences, it's nurture. You have to, you have to develop it. You have to work on it. Now, we're all born with a different baseline. Jayce would be a great example. He obviously has a different starting baseline for mental toughness than some other people do. Now, if he took-

• 1:50:07Rich Roll?

  And you're the kid who was on the Ferris wheel for 10 days to win a prize.

• 1:50:11Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 1:50:11Rich Roll?

  So your baseline is probably a little bit different.

• 1:50:14Speaker 02

  Like, how old are you for that?

• 1:50:15Speaker 01

  21, 22. But I took that knowledge from that experience and then I've really showed up in my life and sharpened it. Jayce has an incredible opportunity to be something very special in that mindset space. And I come across, you can pick out, okay, baseline's higher, baseline's higher, baseline's higher, develop that talent. But we, you, everybody can develop it. Cause I'm a great example of this is a mental journey. I'm not the most physically gifted. Now, you have to, the other big question is like, how much is physical and how much is mental for what we do or the journey that we're on? And my answer has changed over the years.

• 1:50:54Speaker 01

  And you hear a lot of people have different opinions. It's like 70% mental and it's 100% physical and it's 100% mental. You cannot do what I did if I'm very strong mentally and I'm a 300 pound man. Mentally, you cannot drag your body through that experience. And if you're extremely physical but have a weak mind, I've seen so many athletes that are way more talented than I am fail because they don't have the mental component of it. And so you you straight up have to be a hundred percent on both of them in order to accomplish something like that, or the journey, or push your boundaries or your limits, right?

• 1:51:38Speaker 01

  It's a combination. You cannot rely solely on one or the other and allow that to be to get you through. You have to be so strong at both of them, or it just doesn't work.

• 1:51:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah. It's really a habit or a muscle, this idea of reflexively putting yourself into positions where you're going to be tested mentally, emotionally, physically, in all of these ways. And we're in a culture right now where it's kind of easy to opt out of that type of situation. So you have to almost have a little bit of extra gumption to like seek it out and put yourself in that situation.

• 1:52:16Speaker 01

  Sunny always says, and she is not lying when she says it, she says, if I have two paths in front of me, I'm going to intentionally pick the harder one, because I want it to hurt. I want to struggle. I want to learn. I want to grow. And that's the exact opposite of what most people are doing today. They see two things and go, that's the easy route. I'm going to take that way. And that that individual sadly-

• 1:52:36Speaker 02

  It's very unfulfilling.

• 1:52:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's unfulfilling.

• 1:52:38Rich Roll?

  You think it's gonna be, you know, like, you're deluded into thinking that the happy life is the easy life, but the happy life, the fulfilled life, the purpose-driven life, is the life that invites those sort of difficult situations into your experience.

• 1:52:52Speaker 02

  Well, they're depressed and they have anxiety and all those things. I'm like, I'm sure you do. Because you're just taking that easy mountain bike path. It's just soft dirt and all you do is, you know, there's no challenge. There's no reason to develop any character, but they're choosing that, right? So it's like, well, I'm sure you feel depressed, like you're accomplishing nothing hard. So that's definitely what our culture and our society encourages.

• 1:53:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:16Speaker 02

  It's the easy path.

• 1:53:17Speaker 01

  One of the biggest things you learn by taking the harder path is problem solving.

• 1:53:23Speaker 01

  And that's what our team in Sunny has become experts at is problem solving. That's all we do. We've become master problem solvers and we've learned how to problem solve in the face of adversity. And when you take that path of least resistance, there's very limited opportunities or necessity to problem solve. And so you don't learn that skillset. And life is about managing adversity and learning how to problem solve at a high level.

• 1:53:48Speaker 02

  Under stressful circumstances.

• 1:53:50Speaker 01

  Under stressful circumstances.

• 1:53:51Rich Roll?

  The threshold for you being overwhelmed is probably really high.

• 1:53:55Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:53:56Rich Roll?

  Like, nothing's a big deal.

• 1:53:58Speaker 02

  No, no, I'll just figure it out. Just figure it out. And I mean, that was the whole journey of the hundred was adaptation. Nothing was ever the same. Every day, the mood, the injury, the fatigue of the crew or James, the food he wanted, the people that were showing up, the weather. I mean, every day was adaptation. And, you know, I remember being late in the journey going, man, we're 90 days in and nothing's ever the same. You know, you grocery shop for the week and James doesn't want anything you buy. Or, you know, and it's, it's literally minute to minute to minute. So, you know, I don't have a lot of tolerance for people who say, you know, it's just hard. I don't have the resources. I can't figure it out.

• 1:54:43Speaker 02

  And I'm like, did you just figure it out? That's life. You just figure out, nobody has the instruction manual. Nobody knows what they're doing. You just figure it out. And a lot of times you don't have the time to figure it out. You have like 10 seconds to figure out a solution right here, right now. I mean.

• 1:54:58Speaker 01

  And that was the premise of the hundred was remove the chaos, you know, put in normality, put in consistency.

• 1:55:03Speaker 02

  The great illusion, remove the chaos.

• 1:55:05Rich Roll?

  Good luck with that.

• 1:55:06Speaker 01

  One of the, one of those things that we thought we were going to be able to control and ultimately.

• 1:55:11Speaker 02

  It was exactly the same.

• 1:55:12Speaker 01

  It became just as chaotic as the 50, but for twice as long.

• 1:55:15Speaker 02

  Exactly the same, but different. I mean, it was just as chaotic, just as necessary to solve problems, just as dramatic, just different. It was unbelievably exactly the same as far as.

• 1:55:30Rich Roll?

  What's a, what's a story that hasn't been told? Like a behind the scenes? Like, what do people not get or not understand about how this whole thing unfolded?

• 1:55:40Speaker 02

  From both perspectives, James, what's yours?

• 1:55:43Speaker 01

  I think, man, that's a great question. I've never been asked that before.

• 1:55:48Speaker 02

  You're a winner, because he gets asked a lot of the same questions.

• 1:55:50Speaker 01

  I do this for a living. Yeah, this is my job.

• 1:55:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, but most people ask the same questions. You got him.

• 1:55:58Speaker 01

  Gosh.

• 1:56:01Speaker 01

  I will say this, few people will ever understand what it takes and what the four of us went through, even if you've read every book, seen every interview.

• 1:56:12Speaker 01

  I mean, it had to put a strain on your marriage.

• 1:56:14Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:56:15Speaker 01

  No? Well...

• 1:56:17Speaker 02

  I may be his.

• 1:56:18Speaker 01

  No. Yeah.

• 1:56:19Speaker 02

  He's like, "Well, I don't know, actually, I was out there riding my bike."

• 1:56:22Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:56:24Speaker 02

  Even I didn't know.

• 1:56:25Speaker 01

  One, I think it's, Sunny's actually super mature and one of the biggest sighs of relief for me when she says, "I just gave you a hundred day pass on anything you said and anything you did." And I'm like, "No other woman on the planet does that." But just her level of understanding of, "Okay, look, this isn't my husband. There's an imbalance, there's a hormonal thing going on, there's a stress thing going on. This is totally situational and thankfully, I did get a hundred day pass."

• 1:57:00Speaker 02

  I don't think people realize that it was literally second to second. I mean, it wasn't, and I don't know if that was everybody's experience, but that was certainly mine. It was, I mean, from the second I got up until I was climbing into bed, knowing I was only getting two hours of sleep, every second was high intensity and demanding. I mean, there was no refuge. So, that, I think about people in their own struggles.

• 1:57:31Speaker 02

  And there's a lot of times you're like, okay, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna go in my closet and take five breaths. Like that didn't exist for me because I had my family, I had the crew, I had James, I had, I mean, the film crew, James, I had our working crew, I had the volunteer church stuff I was doing in the community. My parents live in my basement, you know, we have two dogs. I mean, there was literally

• 1:57:54Rich Roll?

  A lot of people whose needs need to be met, who are looking to you to meet those needs. And not a lot of time for Sunny to meet Sunny's needs.

• 1:58:01Speaker 02

  Which I knew was only temporary. So it was okay.

• 1:58:04Rich Roll?

  But 100 days is a long temporary phase.

• 1:58:07Speaker 02

  Yep. And it took me about two years to recover from the 50. And so I promised myself this time, along the way, I would do things to prevent needing that much time to recover. And so that's why now I'm like, there's definitely still some PTSD that I have to process that I just haven't had the chance to yet. And I've just started that. So I definitely feel better than coming off the 50. But it was intense. Every second.

• 1:58:34Rich Roll?

  Yeah. It's kind of like an extrapolated version of when somebody goes into crew, like an ultra race, and they've never crewed before, and they think they're just gonna be in a van, listening to music, and it's gonna be super cool and chill.

• 1:58:45Speaker 02

  When you run by, they hand you a drink.

• 1:58:47Rich Roll?

  And then they're like, wait, like, they're doing stuff all the, like, but that's times a thousand for 100 days straight.

• 1:58:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:58:54Speaker 01

  I think the stories that haven't been told yet are the stories that we don't know yet of the people we've impacted. I think that's, that's the biggest thing.

• 1:59:02Speaker 02

  They're yet to come.

• 1:59:03Speaker 01

  That are yet to come. And those are obviously the most meaningful stories. And a lot of them, we won't ever get to hear.

• 1:59:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Back on the mental toughness piece, you had mentioned something that's a little bit tangential to it, which is this idea of showing up, right? The idea of being consistent, and how that plays into long-term success. And the truth being that, you know, it's not sexy, and it's not like something that like trends in social media. It's like, that's stuff that you do every single day, no matter what, that moves the needle forward, ever so slightly, that puts you in the position to be able to do great things and achieve your dreams.

• 1:59:44Speaker 01

  I gotta have a really cool experience. I was, I've had the opportunity to speak to some NFL teams. And I was on the field for a warm-up for one of the games, and one of the coaches was there talking to me. And he The quarterback was throwing the ball to a couple of different receivers. And he said, watch this. And he threw the ball and the receiver caught it and immediately tucked it. And then dropped the ball, caught the next one and immediately tucked it. And then he started throwing the ball to a newer member of the team, more of a rookie, and he would catch it and drop it, catch it and drop it. And he said, he's not going to make it in this league. And the reason he's a successful veteran is because he's still doing the small things and working on the fundamentals that

• 2:00:29Speaker 01

  you would think they would take for granted of or not put much attention to it. But the fact that he would catch it and still tuck it like it was in a game situation where he was protecting it, even in a just, I'm just tossing a ball to you, right? That type of thing. The coaches watch that kind of stuff and it's that level of consistency. It's that level of showing up. It's that level of doing the small things over a long period of time that people aren't willing to do that separates that guy who makes it and that guy who ultimately will get cut.

• 2:01:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So true. How does it work with balance? I'm sure you get that question a lot, too.

• 2:01:08Speaker 02

  He does get that one.

• 2:01:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Your life's totally out of balance, dude.

• 2:01:12Speaker 01

  No, it's not.

• 2:01:13Speaker 02

  Well, you're a guy with, you have four kids, right?

• 2:01:16Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:16Speaker 02

  So you, I mean, I'm sure you get that question a lot, too.

• 2:01:19Rich Roll?

  I do. I have, I have a, my answer evolves, but I have kind of a response to that, but I'm interested in how you guys think about that.

• 2:01:27Speaker 01

  My answer has evolved too, and now that I have four teenage girls.

• 2:01:31Speaker 02

  So fun.

• 2:01:32Speaker 01

  It is fun, but this is the example that I use. My 13-year-old daughter doesn't want to, like, 25% of my time. If I'm, like, because people, people like assume, oh, family life balance.

• 2:01:44Rich Roll?

  Five minutes.

• 2:01:45Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, and people, people assume, okay, let's say, let's break life into work, play, family. And if, if balance equals 33, 33, 33, then you've got to give that amount of time to each one of those. And that's the best example is my daughter doesn't want 33% of my time. Like, that, that's absurd. What she does want Is when I am getting over my time, she wants all of my time.

• 2:02:09Rich Roll?

  Hmm.

• 2:02:10Speaker 01

  And she wants me to be right there attentive, listening to the story that I don't necessarily, all the details care about. But as young, I mean, we've got one daughter who, Sunny will say, how was your day? And literally from when she woke up.

• 2:02:25Speaker 02

  And then I did this and then this, it's like.

• 2:02:28Rich Roll?

  Oh, the whole time. I see, I would kill for that. I get a lot of like, fine.

• 2:02:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, we had one of those too. How was your day, fine? Anything happen?

• 2:02:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, but family, life and work balance doesn't mean an equal percentage. It means whatever you're doing, give that balance to it. And the, the hundreds are perfect example, totally out of balance. But that balances, that imbalance is temporary and the sacrifices were discussed with the family.

• 2:02:55Speaker 02

  Everybody was committed to the imbalance, including the kids.

• 2:02:58Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, life's going to be completely out of balance for a while and it will shift back to imbalance and to, to, to break through barriers and to reach certain levels and whatnot. There has to be some, nobody that navigates this life successfully has a, has a perfect balance at all times. Now, what you have to be careful of is going completely out of balance for a really long period of time. Now you're creating.

• 2:03:21Speaker 02

  Jeopardizing.

• 2:03:22Speaker 01

  You're jeopardizing and creating problems. What, what's your thoughts on balance?

• 2:03:27Speaker 02

  I think that balance is ebb and flow. You know, it's like a marriage is never 50 50. Sometimes it's 60 40, sometimes it's 70 30, depending which partner needs more attention at the time. I think life is like that, you know? Sometimes you don't need downtime, you need uptime. You know, you don't need to rest, you need to be more exhilarated and have more passion. So I think the appropriate thing with balance is gauging where you're at personally, where your family's at, what your goals are, what the demands are and doing so accordingly. Because like you said, it evolves, right? It changes over time.

• 2:04:00Speaker 01

  Like if you're, if you're writing a book, your time balance is going to be different than when the book's completing, you're marketing the book.

• 2:04:06Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:04:07Speaker 01

  Now your time and attention is going to go somewhere else, but it's the same project, you're trying to accomplish the same goal, but it has to sacrifice differently to get to the end of that project.

• 2:04:16Speaker 02

  Or even your activity level, you're like, I'm going to be sitting a lot more in the day.

• 2:04:19Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:19Speaker 02

  Than if I'm working in my garden.

• 2:04:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a tricky thing. I mean, I think we're. You know, I think, I think culture dictates this idea that we should be aspiring to live our life in this super balanced way every single day and that our time and attention is equally apportioned, you know, throughout the hours of the day so that everybody's taken care of and you're taking care of yourself. And it sets people up for failure and for guilt. Like, we beat ourselves up because we're not adhering to that kind of norm, and that norm is an illusion. Like, I don't think anybody adheres to that norm successfully. And on top of that, if you want to do something amazing, your life is gonna have to look unlike other people's lives. I mean, that's just the truth. Like, nobody achieves something great with some perfectly balanced life. Like, you have to

• 2:05:04Rich Roll?

  be temporarily out of balance so that something gets an extraordinary amount of time, attention, and focus.

• 2:05:10Speaker 02

  It's your peaking period, right?

• 2:05:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:12Speaker 02

  You're peaking.

• 2:05:12Rich Roll?

  I think of it as a pendulum, and that pendulum has to swing back. Like, you have to make sure that the important buckets in your life are being attended to, so that you're, you don't capsize completely. But you have to be in a situation where you can kind of vacillate in and out of these things. And that's okay, as long as it always kind of like tips back in the right direction.

• 2:05:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, beautifully said.

• 2:05:34Speaker 02

  And don't you think that people know when their life is out of balance?

• 2:05:37Rich Roll?

  Sure.

• 2:05:38Speaker 02

  Because either you're sad, or you're too tired, or you're this or that, and then you assess, right?

• 2:05:44Speaker 01

  Well, our bodies are amazing, too. They give us signals.

• 2:05:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, and I think it's, it's more, I like to think of it more in terms of attention. Like, where are you placing your attention? And is that the right place to be placing your attention? And when you're placing your attention on that thing, are you giving it all that you have? And you can pull out of it and then re, you know, rejigger and focus it somewhere else, but being present for what you're doing. And I think, you know, a big piece of, like, the lesson that I extract, one of the lessons I extract from The Hundred, is this mindfulness piece. Like, this idea of being totally present with what you're doing. Like, you can't, it's too overwhelming, right? The only way that you got through it is by being exactly where your, your feet were, you know, every second of every mile of every day.

• 2:06:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. As soon as I looked too far ahead, it was catastrophic.

• 2:06:33Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 2:06:34Speaker 02

  Well, and you couldn't have balance. He had one job.

• 2:06:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:37Speaker 02

  Swim, bike, and run. That was it. If he tried to implement anything else, like you said... He couldn't have accomplished it. It couldn't have happened, right? So, yeah, that was out of balance, but the appropriate thing to do is to immediately, you know, balance out your time, efforts, energies as soon as that project is done. And I think that's where people struggle. I think they try to continue what they're doing. You know, they don't recover after a race. They just continue their training.

• 2:07:07Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:07:08Speaker 02

  But I think you articulated that beautifully.

• 2:07:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:10Speaker 01

  And here's a great example of I sacrificed a lot of family time during those hundred years.

• 2:07:17Speaker 02

  Hundred years. That's what it sounds like.

• 2:07:19Rich Roll?

  Get the MRI on that guy.

• 2:07:21Speaker 01

  Immediately, a hundred days, but what did that sacrifice? Like, at what level did that sacrifice now bless my family?

• 2:07:30Speaker 02

  Create more family time.

• 2:07:30Speaker 01

  And create more family time because of that sacrifice? And so imbalance for a quarter of a year or for a time period, but that sacrifice in turn will create an opportunity for me to be more with.

• 2:07:43Rich Roll?

  It's a leverage point.

• 2:07:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:45Rich Roll?

  Well, here's one for you, and I'm wondering whether you relate to this. Myself being someone who like appreciates suffering and I feel like I have a capacity for that as well. What happens with me is I equate, maybe not success, but whether I've given my all to something is calibrated and lockstep with how much I've suffered. So whether it's a book or writing a speech or preparing for a pie, whatever it is, it's like, if I haven't suffered, like I didn't work hard enough on it, like I could work harder on it. Like I could, I could really go down the rabbit hole on this, you know, I have to really like feel it, you know, in order to feel like I did a good job. And things outside of endurance sports don't necessarily work that way, right?

• 2:08:30Rich Roll?

  So the challenge that, like, one of the things I'm trying to learn right now is can I hold these things a little bit more lightly and, and be more in the allowing rather than in the, in the kind of self-will forcing of it? Because that's my instinct, right? And that instinct doesn't always drive the best result in areas that are outside of like endurance sports.

• 2:08:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I battle with that too, like if it. You know, back to taking the path of, you know, least resistance or the hard road. Sometimes when you accomplish something, if it wasn't harder, what is the

• 2:09:02Rich Roll?

  You're like, I could have been, I could have done better.

• 2:09:04Speaker 01

  I could have done better, that project's not what it should have been. But sometimes it just is easy and it's okay. And that's, I think that's what you're saying you're trying to learn is like, it's okay to not have to suffer through something and it's still be an excellent piece of product.

• 2:09:16Rich Roll?

  Well, sometimes it's better if you get out of the way and just allow it to be, allow it to express itself in a more kind of like organic, natural way than to try to force it.

• 2:09:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, everything doesn't have to be harder or struggle. It doesn't, it doesn't have to be.

• 2:09:29Rich Roll?

  That's the thing, right?

• 2:09:31Speaker 01

  I, I think people hear some of the times when, when we say that is like, oh, okay, I, I have to struggle. It has to be hard. I have to face adversity in order to learn. No, that's just where learning is at its peak, but you can still do things and accomplish things and it'd be easy and it'd breeze and it's fun and it's enjoyable and it's enjoyable. Um, and so, yeah, there's, there's obviously definitely two sides, two sides of that coin and I'm, I'm learning, I have to learn that as well too.

• 2:09:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's kind of a hard lesson because it just cuts across like my instinct.

• 2:10:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're, we're cutting from that same wall, that same mold.

• 2:10:04Rich Roll?

  Are any of your kids into this stuff? Like are, are

• 2:10:07Speaker 02

  Suffering or?

• 2:10:08Rich Roll?

  No, just, just like the multi-sport thing? Are, are they just on their own trip?

• 2:10:13Speaker 01

  They're, they're on their own trip and, and that's, that's one of the things that I, one of the biggest goals I set out as a, as a parent was I am not going to force my passions, my dreams on my kids. I'm going to allow them to be on their own journey and I'm going to help create opportunities for them, but ultimately I want them to follow their passions. And, um, I, I would say Quinn and

• 2:10:35Speaker 02

  As of the last six months.

• 2:10:36Speaker 01

  No, I'd say Quinn and, and Daisy have the, have a great baseline for suffering.

• 2:10:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, but Quinn only as of the last six months. Like he's just wanted to be a little kid.

• 2:10:46Speaker 01

  But he, he showed

• 2:10:47Rich Roll?

  He's got like a YouTube channel now though, right?

• 2:10:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, Sheepdog776, man.

• 2:10:50Speaker 01

  Sheepdog776.

• 2:10:52Rich Roll?

  Sheepdog776. What does he do on his channel?

• 2:10:54Speaker 02

  Hardcore, trampoline.

• 2:10:56Speaker 01

  He's learning how to do flips.

• 2:10:57Rich Roll?

  He's doing backflips all over the time.

• 2:10:58Speaker 02

  But the cool thing is that he, so this is in, in conjunction with James is saying, Quinn has found this passion and he is continuing to grow in this passion. So he is continuing to learn new sports. He's, he's moving to parkour on the ground and he's doing some Ninja Warrior stuff. But here's what else is cool. He's filming it. He's editing it. He's posting it.

• 2:11:20Speaker 01

  He enjoys that part of it.

• 2:11:20Speaker 02

  And it's so cool to see, so for his birthday, we got him a tripod because he has friends that he gets to hold his camera for him. And it's been really neat to see him not only do what the sport he loves, but to continue to learn and grow in different, you know, parts of the sport. So it's been really neat to see him grow into that because before he's like, I just want to wear Spiderman costumes and dress up, right? Where now he's finally showing some passion for athletics. And he's played lacrosse for years, but it was because his cousin played and so he wanted to help his cousin. But now he's starting to show a little bit. And then our daughter Daisy, that James mentioned, she's our third daughter. She just turned 15. She is the most easygoing. She's just like James. She's like, I don't care if it's messy. I don't care if it's clean.

• 2:12:05Speaker 02

  I don't care if my homework is good grades, bad grades. I don't care. But the second she sets her mind to something, she is unstoppable. And it is a force to be reckoned with. The trick is finding the right thing. So she, you know, goes through life, doing things her way. And then every once in a while she finds something and she just dives into it. So that's really cool because that's a lot how James is. James is so easygoing. He's just go with the flow. He has a play mentality and he's just like yellow personality.

• 2:12:35Speaker 01

  I'm a procrastinator at heart.

• 2:12:36Speaker 02

  Like he really is. But then when he finds that thing and he turns it on, he turns it on. I mean, Lucy, Lucy's just like hardcore all the time. Lily, she just wants to play and have fun and then she realizes being organized is better for her. And then Dolly, our other daughter's just like, I just wanted to do hair and makeup. So it's interesting how it's all different, but those two are the ones that show kind of the turn on. Where it's like from normal to

• 2:13:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's which thing. I mean, that is, you were talking about nurture versus nature. Perhaps that's a nature thing. I mean, you are a guy, like when I think of you, it's like, yeah, your word is your bond. You say you're going to do this thing, like I know James is going to fulfill that promise or die trying, like whatever's going to happen. Like he's, he, you care so much about this promise that you make, whether it's to yourself or to the public. Um, and that becomes like this anchor that holds your, you accountable to yourself in terms of like accomplishing these goals.

• 2:13:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's fun. It is fun to watch those kids that that follow in that and you can start to see. But as far as doing what we do, none of them have any interest, zero.

• 2:13:43Speaker 02

  We keep trying to pitch like mountain biking.

• 2:13:46Rich Roll?

  You did like a big family hike up this mountain the other day.

• 2:13:49Speaker 01

  They do that. They love that. It's family time. Dolly was crazy excited the whole time. I just love hiking. This is so much fun. And she's the kind of girl that like we have to get her out there and then she realizes Sunny's this way too is like, I have to get Sunny to go do an activity. She's very resistant and then she does it and it's like this is the best time I've ever had in my life.

• 2:14:08Speaker 02

  I'm a work minded person.

• 2:14:10Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:14:11Speaker 01

  And so, no, we do stuff as a family. They're very active and very healthy and they love to get out and do family stuff like that.

• 2:14:17Speaker 02

  She's not something like triathlon.

• 2:14:20Speaker 02

  Maybe golf, independent sport. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see.

• 2:14:24Rich Roll?

  Well, there is no such thing as an individual sport as individual as you know, triathlon and multi-sport is. I mean, this really was a beautiful team effort and family journey that you guys went on. It's super inspiring to so many people. I love you guys a ton. I appreciate you coming to share today and maybe we can just end this with a few thoughts for the person out there who does struggle with getting off the couch or just figuring out how to, you know, bring that will into into execution. You know, how do you start to show up? Like what if you've never showed up? Or you haven't flexed that muscle before and you're inspired by, you know, what you guys have have done and the example that you've set?

• 2:15:08Rich Roll?

  Like, how do you get that person activated?

• 2:15:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think the biggest thing is is helping them realize that we started from the very beginning. Same same self doubt, same outside criticism coming in, same trying to battle that conversation.

• 2:15:24Speaker 01

  And and just set yourself the smallest goals. One of the best examples I've ever read was from the book Atomic Habits, James Clear, when he said, okay. You don't go to the gym. You're 350 pounds. Your goal is to go to the gym for literally five minutes. When five minutes is up, you have to leave the gym. And the person on the beginning of their journey would be like, I'm not going to accomplish anything by going to the gym for five minutes a day. Cause the flip side of that is someone says, okay, I'm going to go to the gym 90 minutes, six days a week, and they fail every single time. It's inevitable. It always happens. Nobody that is at the beginning of that journey can set an expert level goal and accomplish it.

• 2:16:03Speaker 01

  And the whole, the whole process or reason for doing that is because it's, it's, it's a mind. It's a mind deal. And you now become, even though you've only gone to the gym for five minutes. If over the past two weeks, you've gone to the gym every day for five minutes, you now can say the words, I'm a gym goer. Right. I'm the kind of person who goes to the gym. I go to the gym. I go to the gym every single day. And so my advice to someone who's just starting is one, absolutely realize that your journey is worth it. You're worth showing up on your own journey and meet yourself where you're at today. And set that expectation, but then set yourself such almost a ridiculously achievable goal. So that you can start to gain confidence and momentum.

• 2:16:43Speaker 01

  And once you do that, now push the limits. Now start to go, you can't go from zero to a hundred. My journey didn't start off the couch a hundred Ironmans. It started a four mile fun run that I struggled through that Sunny made fun of me for that put us on this journey. So ultimately it's her fault that we're here. Yeah, yeah. But really that's my biggest, that's.

• 2:17:02Speaker 02

  I take care of it.

• 2:17:02Speaker 01

  You created this whole insanity monster. So that's my advice is, is meet yourself where you're at today. Um, believe in yourself. Know that you're enough and to, to just start and set yourself almost a ridiculously low goal. To give yourself some confidence and momentum.

• 2:17:18Speaker 02

  Let's say find something hard to do every day. For some people that hard is, you know.

• 2:17:24Speaker 01

  Brushing your teeth.

• 2:17:24Speaker 02

  Brushing your teeth or, or talking to the person.

• 2:17:29Speaker 02

  Checking you out at the grocery store, or to just leave the house, or to, you know, make a phone call that you have been putting off. But I mean, every time I mountain bike, if I'm on an easy stretch, I intentionally look for like hard rocks and stuff to hit because I'm like, there's no better time to practice going over those rocks than in this safe zone. So find hard things to do inside your safe zone and just do it one, one hard thing a day.

• 2:17:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:55Speaker 02

  One hard thing.

• 2:17:56Speaker 01

  Solid advice, both you guys.

• 2:17:59Rich Roll?

  I'm gonna resist the temptation to ask you the question that I'm sure everybody asks you at the end of these things.

• 2:18:04Speaker 02

  What's next?

• 2:18:05Rich Roll?

  You know what it is, right? What's next? I'm not gonna ask you that. I don't wanna know what's next. There doesn't have to be a next.

• 2:18:11Speaker 01

  I've got a great answer.

• 2:18:11Rich Roll?

  You guys are, do you? All right. I didn't ask you, by the way.

• 2:18:14Speaker 01

  I know, you don't. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna volunteer.

• 2:18:16Speaker 02

  Let me handle this. Hey, Jay, so what's next?

• 2:18:18Speaker 01

  What's next? Yes. So obviously, we're in the recovery phase of what we're doing. That is what's right in front of us, what's next. But I've kinda gone down this rabbit hole of recovery of, of biohacking the, the mind and the body and all of the incredible tools that are out there. If you have access to them, to utilize them, just with food and, and just everything. What's next for me would be to live a, a healthy, sustainable quality of life beyond age 105.

• 2:18:47Speaker 02

  It keeps changing it.

• 2:18:49Rich Roll?

  There you go.

• 2:18:49Speaker 02

  It used to be 100.

• 2:18:50Speaker 01

  I know. But then you said, you said you're gonna live to 100.

• 2:18:53Speaker 02

  I said, I can live, I'm gonna live as a widow, cuz I'll make it to 100, but you'll be 105.

• 2:18:57Speaker 01

  I know, so I said 105 cuz there's five years difference. See, I had to adjust it cuz I wanna be with you.

• 2:19:01Rich Roll?

  I got a couple guys you should talk to and a couple books for you to read.

• 2:19:04Speaker 01

  I'm reading Dave Astor's book right now.

• 2:19:06Rich Roll?

  Yeah. If you read David Sinclair's book, you should read that. Sergey, this guy Sergey Young, who was just on the podcast, has a book that just came out called Growing Young.

• 2:19:14Speaker 01

  Cool. I'm, I'm fascinated with all of it because obviously I've, my whole career's been breaking my body down. And I'm to the point now, I'm like, okay, I need to,

• 2:19:22Speaker 02

  It's oxidative stress.

• 2:19:24Speaker 01

  I need to build this back up so that I can hit this goal of what's next and living to beyond 105, so.

• 2:19:29Rich Roll?

  Well, the amazing thing is throughout this whole thing, you really didn't lose any body weight. Like you maintained your, your weight.

• 2:19:34Speaker 01

  In both campaigns.

• 2:19:35Rich Roll?

  Your, yeah.

• 2:19:36Speaker 02

  People ask us all the time, is he on steroids or something? No, he's just born like that.

• 2:19:40Speaker 01

  No, I just eat a lot of food.

• 2:19:41Rich Roll?

  You do, yeah.

• 2:19:42Speaker 01

  I eat so much food. It was one of the hardest things we did was eat that amount of food to maintain it, yeah. It's been crazy.

• 2:19:48Rich Roll?

  You guys are welcome back here anytime. I love talking to you today, thanks.

• 2:19:51Speaker 01

  We love you.

• 2:19:51Rich Roll?

  And you guys are easy to find. Where do you, where, so people should, Check out your book, Redefine Impossible. There's the documentary, The Iron Cowboy, The 50/50/50 Journey, or something. What is it called exactly?

• 2:20:04Speaker 01

  It's called Iron Cowboy. It currently sits on Amazon Prime.

• 2:20:06Rich Roll?

  Right, cool.

• 2:20:06Speaker 01

  And then to follow anything crazy we do, or what is next, is we post everything on Instagram, so Iron Cowboy James, and then everything can be linked or found through our website, ironcowboy.com.

• 2:20:18Rich Roll?

  Cool, right on. Sunny, any final words?

• 2:20:21Speaker 02

  Sunny Jo Lawrence on Instagram. I'm not very good at posting, but I've set this new goal, because people keep asking me to post, people keep requesting, and I just, I have to get in the habit.

• 2:20:32Rich Roll?

  You have to get out of your comfort zone.

• 2:20:34Speaker 01

  Do something hard, Sunny.

• 2:20:35Rich Roll?

  Create that new atomic habit. Be the person who...

• 2:20:38Speaker 02

  That's the plan. I got you. The problem is this. I do those closet talks to day 98, and then all of a sudden Instagram wouldn't let me load videos. So I haven't been able to load any videos. I can't figure out what's wrong with it. It's this weird thing. I've tried deleting the app, tried everything. So then I got out of the habit, and so I've been getting requests, like, please post more. So I'm doing that, starting the habit. It's happening.

• 2:20:59Rich Roll?

  You are a problem solver. And this sounds like a problem that you could probably solve.

• 2:21:03Speaker 01

  It almost sounded like an excuse.

• 2:21:05Rich Roll?

  I know, right?

• 2:21:06Speaker 01

  We should end this right now.

• 2:21:07Speaker 02

  No, explanation. This is it. This is the new habit. I'm gonna post more.

• 2:21:11Rich Roll?

  Alright, I'm gonna log on Instagram tomorrow and see what's what with you.

• 2:21:14Speaker 02

  It's gonna happen. Tomorrow, okay. Good for, good to know I got a deadline. I'm gonna do something today.

• 2:21:20Rich Roll?

  Alright, you guys. Thanks.

• 2:21:21Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:21:26Rich Roll?

  That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guests, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com, where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as podcast merch, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change, and The Plant Power Way, as well as the Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com.

• 2:21:57Rich Roll?

  If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube, and leave a review and/or comment. Supporting the sponsors who support the show is also important and appreciated. And sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is of course, awesome and very helpful. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books, the meal planner, and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter, which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camiolo, with additional audio engineering

• 2:22:40Rich Roll?

  by Cale Curtis. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis, with assistance by our creative director, Dan Drake. Portraits by Davy Greenberg and Grayson Wilder. Graphic and social media assets courtesy of Jessica Miranda, Daniel Solis, Dan Drake, and A.J. Akpodiate. Thank you Georgia Whaley for copywriting and website management. And of course, our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace. Plants.