"No One's EVER Seen This" James O’Keefe BREAKS Epstein Files, FBI RAID Plot & Project Veritas Split | PBD Podcast / Ep. 591

Patrick Bet-David and Vincent Oshana sit down with James O’Keefe as he reveals leaked info from inside the U. S. government. He details an FBI raid, seizure of his phone, and access to his Signal messages. O'Keefe dives into his politics and gives his opinion on Pam Bondi, Dan Bongino, and Kash Patel. ---- Ⓜ️ CONNECT WITH JAMES O'KEEFE ON MINNECT: https://bit.ly/3Hq2h5O https://bit.ly/3Hq2h5O%20 🖥️ VT WEBINAR: HOW TO BE A KILLER IN BUSINESS WITHOUT KILLING YOUR MARRIAGE | JUNE 11TH | 12:30PM: ⁠https://bit.ly/4hVTkPK⁠ https://bit.ly/4hVTkPK 📺 SUBCRIBE TO HER TAKE: ⁠https://bit.ly/4k95Tb6⁠ https://bit.ly/4k95Tb6 🎫 THE VAULT 2025 | SEPT 8TH - 11TH | THE GAYLORD PALMS | ORLANDO, FL: ⁠https://bit.ly/4dJlmfL⁠ https://bit.ly/4dJlmfL 🍋 ZEST IT FORWARD: ⁠https://bit.ly/4jYg3Lh⁠ https://bit.ly/4jYg3Lh 📕 PBD'S BOOK "THE ACADEMY": ⁠https://bit.ly/41rtEV4⁠ https://bit.ly/41rtEV4 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g57zR2⁠ https://bit.ly/4g57zR2 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ITUNES: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh⁠ https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ALL PLATFORMS: ⁠https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A⁠ https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A 📱 CONNECT ON MINNECT: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC⁠ https://bit.ly/4ikyEkC 👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7⁠ https://bit.ly/3ZjWhB7 📰 VTNEWS. AI: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3OExClZ⁠ https://bit.ly/3OExClZ 🎓 VALUETAINMENT UNIVERSITY: ⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw⁠ https://bit.ly/3BfA5Qw 📺 JOIN THE CHANNEL: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or⁠ https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or 💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:44Speaker 03

  No one's ever seen this before. I get sent this. I'm like, holy [BLEEP]. This is not public.

• 0:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Someone inside the United States government gave that to you.

• 0:55Speaker 03

  That's correct. The FBI pointed guns at me and took my reporters notebooks. Because I have to call my lawyer. And the moment that I unlock my phone, they snatched the phone out of my hand because I unlocked the phone. Now the FBI has access to all of my Signal messages. Do you know what's in my Signal messages? All the people in the government that come to me with information.

• 1:18Speaker 05

  And then they raid your house.

• 1:20Speaker 03

  Correct. That is the justification for the raid against James O'Keefe.

• 1:24Speaker 05

  So means they can do whatever they want.

• 1:25Speaker 03

  That's a question that Dan Bongino and Kash Patel need to answer. They need to answer.

• 1:31Patrick Bet-David?

  If you want something that is revolutionary, a breakthrough, it's Diddy because he's alive.

• 1:37Speaker 03

  What is the thing that needs to be on video in your mind?

• 1:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, it's very easy for me.

• 1:41Speaker 03

  Tell me.

• 1:41Patrick Bet-David?

  I've never, ever talked about it on any podcast.

• 1:44Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Ever. This is the first time.

• 1:46Speaker 03

  I commit to you that I will do this. This is also very dangerous, wouldn't you admit, to do these stories?

• 1:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, you subscribe to this lifestyle.

• 1:54Speaker 03

  I almost feel like they're concerned that I'm gonna like record them trying to bribe me. Which I would.

• 2:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Of course.

• 2:22Patrick Bet-David?

  My handshake is better than anything I ever signed, right here.

• 2:26Patrick Bet-David?

  You are a one of one?

• 2:27Speaker 03

  My son's right there.

• 2:28Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't think I've ever said this before.

• 2:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, he is?

• 2:36Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, you gotta be kidding me.

• 2:37Speaker 03

  Yes, he is. Yes.

• 2:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Positive?

• 2:40Speaker 03

  I'm certain of it. Yes.

• 2:41Patrick Bet-David?

  We're live right now, though.

• 2:42Speaker 03

  We're live.

• 2:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. So he is part of the Skaker family?

• 2:45Speaker 03

  Correct. Yes.

• 2:47Patrick Bet-David?

  So, okay, folks, first of all, if you're tuning in, James, the last time we sat down was February of 2022, roughly three and a half years. Obviously, nothing's happened since then for you. Life's been the same. It's been normal, you know?

• 3:00Speaker 03

  Boring.

• 3:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Everything's going good. But last night, you sent me this documentary. And I'm leaving town, so I'm going out of the country. And I said, "Listen, let's see if we can do a podcast before we leave." And then last night, I sit there, I'm going through, it's called "The Truth of Project Veritas, Part One," that just came out this week. And the more I'm watching it, I'm like, "You gotta be..." So this is what happened here? Because originally, when the whole scandal took place, they were like, "Oh, you know what? James O'Keefe, what was he up to? He was spending the money. He was doing this. He was taking helicopter rides. He was taking one too many Ubers and black cars and all this stuff." This is what you're kind of seeing in your apology letter. But walk us through what happened with Project Veritas.

• 3:44Speaker 03

  Thank you for having me. This film I've released, "The Truth Inside Veritas," takes you inside of Project Veritas, which fired me two and a half years ago. And it shows you what happened at the board meeting.

• 3:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 3:58Speaker 03

  Where they were throwing all these grievances out at me. You hear the grievances, you see, you meet the employees, and you meet this board member in federal court because they sued me. So they fired me. They indefinitely suspended me without pay, AKA terminated me. So I just started a new organization called OMG Yokeef Media Group, which I've been doing. And then they sued me to try to shut OMG down. So in this deposition footage, in the videotapes from federal court, depositions are public proceedings. I took the depositions, I put them in the movie, and you see what happened. And it's an insane story. It's a crazy story.

• 4:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, well, so the events, the sequencing of the events, which is kind of weird, is when you got the big Pfizer, one of the directors that talks about what they were doing, Rob, if you want to go through the timeline. So the sequencing was kind of weird. When you first are, I want to see if I got the dates here or not. Let me see. Yeah, right there. January 2023. You know, we hear about the, under your leadership, release an undercover video featuring a man identified as Jordan Tristan Walker. This is the one that is running out.

• 5:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is the biggest story.

• 5:10Patrick Bet-David?

  This is the biggest story, guys, at the peak.

• 5:12Speaker 03

  The director, the mRNA director of scientific research at Pfizer, talking about mutating the virus at Pfizer. This video was viewed an insane amount of times. I confront this guy, if you remember this. I confronted him with a microphone and he physically assaulted me.

• 5:27Patrick Bet-David?

  That's right, I remember that.

• 5:28Speaker 03

  And he took the iPad out of my hand and he smashed it on the ground. This is the gay date, the gay guy at Pfizer. YouTube took it down. It's still on X. And he's talking about directed evolution at Pfizer, something that Pfizer denies, but he says it. He's a director at the company. And we released this video. And I confront him in a restaurant in New York City. And a week later, I was removed from Project Veritas. So conspiracy theories were abound. Did Pfizer bribe somebody? Did they put pressure on people? This is the guy, Jordan Walker. There he is, right there.

• 6:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Change your music.

• 6:09Speaker 05

  I remember this guy.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is, this is, this is a Yale educated doctor, director, and high up within Pfizer Pharmaceutical. And there he is freaking out, grabbed the iPad out of my hand. My cameraman had to, in self-defense, push him away because he was physically assaulting me. You can probably find a better, a better video there. Oh, there's the one of him undercover. Click on that. Pfizer ultimately is thinking about mutating COVID, the undercover journalist asked. And he said, "Well, that is not what we say to the public. No, no, no, don't tell this to any, don't tell anybody what I'm telling you. Promise me you won't tell anybody."

• 6:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Can we hear the audio of this guy saying this, Rob? Go back a little bit. Yeah, this part, I hope there's no Titanic music in the background, but go ahead.

• 6:55Speaker 03

  Not sure if you have audio on the clip.

• 6:56Speaker 05

  And James, while he's looking for this, how, how in the world can you expose something like this, this guy? Plain and simple, and then, and nothing happens. Like, nothing happens. The truth is-

• 7:06Speaker 03

  To him or to me?

• 7:07Patrick Bet-David?

  Let's stay on this. Let's sequence him.

• 7:09Speaker 05

  Okay, my bad.

• 7:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Let's stay on this. So, while this is happening, while this is happening, this is being released. Okay, do you have the audio, Rob, or no?

• 7:17Speaker 03

  I do. I, uh, let's see.

• 7:21Speaker 03

  Our undercover journalist asked-

• 7:22Patrick Bet-David?

  So you're on a date with him or somebody else is on a date with him?

• 7:25Speaker 03

  Covid vaccines are ineffective against virus variants. What he said is disturbing. Listen to this.

• 7:33Speaker 06

  We're exploring, like, now, you know how the virus keeps mutating?

• 7:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:36Speaker 06

  Well, one of the things we're exploring is like, why don't we just mutate ourselves so we can protect, we can create, I'm typically developed new vaccines, right? So we have to do that. If we're gonna do that, though, there's a risk of like, as you could imagine, no one wants to be having a pharma company mutating fucking viruses.

• 7:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:51Speaker 06

  So we're like, do we want to do this? So that's like one of these we're considering.

• 7:56Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 7:56Speaker 06

  Like the future, like maybe they'll create new versions of the vaccines and things like that.

• 8:00Speaker 03

  Okay, see- Pfizer ultimately is thinking about.

• 8:02Patrick Bet-David?

  So now to the audience who may not remember this, okay, we reacted to this multiple times.

• 8:07Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 8:08Patrick Bet-David?

  But how high ranking of a person is it?

• 8:10Speaker 03

  Pretty high.

• 8:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 8:11Speaker 03

  Fairly high. At the time when I released this, the mainstream media were like, well, we don't know if that's really a Pfizer director. They denied that this guy was who he was. I got internal Microsoft Teams messages from sources within Pfizer that confirmed he was who he said he was. He's a director, high up in the company, two below the chief executive officer. And yeah, high ranking guy.

• 8:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so when that happens, you release that, what happens? Give me the sequencing of what happens with Project Veritas trying to fire you. The 25 employees that turned against you, what happened then?

• 8:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, so this was released January 26, 2023, January 25, pardon me. The confrontation with was released the very next day in Brooklyn. It was filmed in a pizza restaurant in Brooklyn. And then I was, a board meeting was on February the 6th, where they brought in a six and a half hour grievance session. Out of 75 employees, about 12 employees spoke with these grievances, which is what you watched in the documentary. And then on February the 10th, they indefinitely suspended me without pay, AKA fired me from Project Veritas.

• 9:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Now, the claims they made is you fired a CFO and you fired, is it Hinckley or what's his person?

• 9:27Speaker 03

  Barry Hinckley.

• 9:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Barry Hinckley, so he was the chief strategy officer, if I'm not mistaken.

• 9:31Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 9:32Patrick Bet-David?

  So walk me through what their concern was, because you don't have the right to fire the CFO, the chief strategy officer. You're like, I'm the CEO, the founder. What do you mean I can't fire you?

• 9:39Speaker 03

  They said that it was wrong for me to fire the chief financial officer.

• 9:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Who is they? The board?

• 9:44Speaker 03

  The board. These individuals that you saw on the film.

• 9:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 9:48Speaker 03

  They, their names, Matthew Tiermond, George Skakel, other individuals who no one knows their names, Joe Barton, but these board members said, James does not have the authority. And it turns out I did have the authority. And the chief financial officer sent me a message on February the 2nd saying, we're going to have an emergency board meeting to remove you, James O'Keefe, as CEO. I was like taking off on an airplane at the time. I was like, this is the Twilight Zone. I said, what are you going to say to the public? Do you have a press release written? They said, no, the public doesn't need to know. So for me, it was like, are you kidding me? Like, this was like the Twilight Zone.

• 10:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Were they using counsel to threaten you to follow every order they were giving you? Or else? Is that kind of what they were doing to you? Intimidation or no?

• 10:41Speaker 03

  No, it was just a, a, well, it's, it, this is the story of, of what, this is such a crazy story. They weren't threatening me. They were just informing me that they were going to remove me as a CEO of the company. So my, my number three guy saying, we're going to remove you and restructure the company. I said, okay, you're fired. This is not going to happen. This, I'm not going to let you, I'm not going to let you do this because it's going to destroy the organization if you do this. And this is the phone call we're having as the airplane is taking off from Nashville, uh, excuse me, to Nashville on February the 2nd. All of this is in this film I just released. You can hear some of the audio of what transpired. And then they have this board meeting on the 6th. That's Monday, February the 6th, 2023, some, a week or so after you just, the video you

• 11:26Speaker 03

  just watched. And, and that's where you had this bizarre struggle session, Maoist struggle session, where they brought, they marched in employees and it was almost like a, employees went on strike. And said, we don't like James O'Keefe. He's a mean boss. He works us too hard. And they had these weird grievances and you could hear all the grievances in the film.

• 11:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, one time apparently you ate an eight-month pregnant woman's sandwich, which she later on came back and talked about.

• 11:53Speaker 03

  Yes. The pregnant lady said it didn't happen.

• 11:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, she said didn't happen, but they literally said you ate an eight-month pregnant woman's sandwich.

• 12:01Speaker 03

  I, I stole a, a pregnant woman's sandwich. Uh, I took, Barry Hinkley said, I took black SUVs around. He said, you shouldn't be transporting the CEO around like this. Um, a bunch of really strange accusations, which never made a sense to anybody. Anybody watching was like, this is insane. And questions are, how could this happen? Why could this? So many things to dive into here about what went down.

• 12:29Patrick Bet-David?

  So on George Skakel, Rob, if you can pull this up. Now, the George Skakel I keep pulling up is Ethel Kennedy's father. Ethel Kennedy married RFK, Bobby Kennedy's father, the AG who got assassinated. So you're saying that George Skakel family is related to the George Skakel that was one of the board members?

• 12:53Speaker 03

  Yes, to be clear, Ethel Kennedy, the Kennedys and the Skakels are two famous families. Kennedy's Democrats, Skakel's Republicans. Ethel Kennedy is the mother of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. This same Ethel Kennedy is the aunt of that man right there, George Skakel. So they are in fact related.

• 13:14Patrick Bet-David?

  So they are in fact related. Okay, so George Skakel. One, when the conversation comes about, at the end of the documentary, when he says, "Hey, you can never have a house like this." Is it all about money? How much money do you make? Is it all about money for you? "Yeah, I bet you can never have a house like that." And he's got a nice house that stood aside. How did he make his money?

• 13:33Speaker 03

  That's not exactly clear to me, but his father's grandfather founded a company. I forgot the name of the company, a big company, probably find it online here. Was it Carbide or Union Lake Carbide? Some type of coal processing.

• 13:50Patrick Bet-David?

  So it's generational money? So he's like a third generation, fourth generation money?

• 13:54Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 13:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, I got it. So when he said, when they asked the question and they said, "So how much money did James O'Keefe steal?" Or whatever the question was. And he says 785,023 cents, 785,023 cents. And he asked the question, "So how'd you come up with that number?" "I can't tell you." What was he talking about?

• 14:14Speaker 03

  He literally just made it up under oath. He was flippant. He was being flippant. It's in a remarkable piece of footage. He's under oath, this is a federal deposition. Your audience might be asking, "How can O'Keefe play courtroom videos?" Depositions aren't under seal, meaning they're public proceedings. It's videotaped. He's under oath in a federal courtroom proceeding, and the attorney asks, "You allege that James O'Keefe owes you money or stole money. How much did James steal?"

• 14:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Right here, he has it. He found it. Watch his clip.

• 14:45Speaker 06

  We can start talking about it. I'm interested to know how much

• 14:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Yes, sorry.

• 14:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Playback speed to normal. There you go. Watch this.

• 14:53Speaker 06

  Oh, $785,023. How did you arrive at that figure? With a very, very complicated algorithm. I cannot reveal because it's confidential. And it's based on the employment agreement?

• 15:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Obviously, it looks very honest here.

• 15:07Speaker 06

  Absolutely. How many violations did you identify? Twenty-seven. Twenty-seven violations in the employment agreement? And that led you to what figure? I just told you. I'm not repeating my answer. Is that analysis in your documents? No, it's not. Is it done in your head? Partially. Where else? Well, I'm not allowed to disclose that.

• 15:31Speaker 03

  I mean, these people were just impeaching all of their credibility.

• 15:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so this guy, George Skakel, when he's saying that, prior to them coming after you, you dropped the Pfizer thing. It talks about four companies he's invested in. One of them, I don't know how many of them was pharma. What was his link? If there is any theories to say, well, the reason why he did this because they got a phone call saying this. What are some speculations that you have that caused them to want to fire you right after the biggest story you guys ever dropped with Project Veritas?

• 16:02Speaker 03

  Well, there was another clip in the deposition. You could pull it up here in a minute, but he says that these companies could, this is his quote, could be sold to Pfizer.

• 16:11Patrick Bet-David?

  That's right.

• 16:12Speaker 03

  That's what he says. And these companies, now when you're in a nonprofit organization that investigates these things, we have to sign a conflict of interest policy.

• 16:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 16:21Speaker 03

  And this is very important in my business, infinitely more important than any other business. If you have financial investments in these companies, you have to disclose it. I did not know this, but every one of my board members were co-investing in these companies without my knowledge. They were soliciting money from each other to put into these companies. And I didn't know it until I got to this lawsuit. And this is an ongoing lawsuit.

• 16:51Patrick Bet-David?

  He found it. This is the clip. If you want to play that clip, Rob, about three or four companies. You just had it. Yep. Go for it.

• 16:58Speaker 03

  Only thing that has changed. Is that we broke the biggest story in our organization's history. It was a story that was so big that it was a combination of the board thinking they finally could do this without James O'Keefe, but also maybe some conflicts of interest, per their own words. Is it fair to say that three of the four companies you've invested in, you would consider to be in the medical field?

• 17:21Speaker 06

  Or Petrogen could be sold to a big pharma.

• 17:26Speaker 03

  Like Pfizer.

• 17:27Speaker 06

  Like Pfizer.

• 17:28Speaker 03

  You agree with me, Pfizer could be a candidate for?

• 17:32Speaker 06

  Maybe, potentially, yeah. I mean, you know, I think if I was a banker, you'd be crazy not to let Pfizer know that it was available.

• 17:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, it turns out I was up against all these people who are financially aligned.

• 17:46Patrick Bet-David?

  We can pause it right there, Ron. Yeah, so three or four companies. James, the board members that you had. If you can give a, one, how did you find them? Two, profile, because if I'm on your board and you're having to raise $2 million a month, because this thing takes a lot of work, the whole $24 million you were talking about, they said, well, we want you to stop raising money. How the hell do you want the company to run if we can't raise the money?

• 18:12Speaker 03

  That's precisely right.

• 18:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, so if you bring these guys in, don't they have to be 100% locked in to realize who you are? Like, everybody knows, you know, what you're going to do and what you're not going. You're an acorn guy. When you drop that whole acorn story, going to an event with an underage hooker that you showed up to as a pimp.

• 18:36Speaker 03

  You're an awesome pimp.

• 18:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, come on in, come on in, come on in. And I think you were with Breitbart at that time, if I'm not mistaken.

• 18:41Speaker 03

  That's right, yes.

• 18:42Patrick Bet-David?

  So, don't these guys who are part of your board members know who they have as the product that they're marketing?

• 18:49Speaker 03

  The problem was, nobody was willing to be on my board. The people that I trusted and respected the most said, I can't be on your board.

• 18:57Patrick Bet-David?

  I got you.

• 18:58Speaker 03

  I'll write you a $100,000 check.

• 18:59Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm just not going to be on the board.

• 19:00Speaker 03

  This is non-profit, tax deductible money. Someone even wrote us a half a million dollar check, but he says, I can't be on your board. Because I, you know, it's too risky for me. The liabilities, Pat, the liabilities of what I do approach infinity.

• 19:16Speaker 03

  I've been sued dozens of times. There's no, at least not yet, I hope to make it sustainable and profitable. There's no profit in this. You can't become wealthy doing this. Why? Because you get sued so much. And the legal fees on the balance sheet, the liabilities always outweigh the assets. So you have to be a little nuts, at least in the right way, to do this.

• 19:37Patrick Bet-David?

  You're fully not. No, you are. You're qualified.

• 19:39Speaker 03

  In certain ways I am. But the problem is, is if you, self-interest is a very powerful motivator for people. And the instinct for self-preservation is extremely powerful. So when you get raided by the FBI, which we were, in 2021, a year before this happened, and you're getting sued by everybody, the problem is, is if you're not messianic, if you're not mission-driven, you'll, corruption-

• 20:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Why would you let them be on your board?

• 20:06Speaker 03

  So that was my mistake. That was my mistake. I did not discern this. And I, and I had a founder's board. I knew these guys from 10 years prior, right? When I was scrapping, when I had nothing. And they were willing. So, so, so the mistake that I made is, they were willing to be on the board, and I said, okay. And I couldn't find anybody. The hardest thing about-

• 20:28Patrick Bet-David?

  How many do you need?

• 20:29Speaker 03

  What's that?

• 20:29Patrick Bet-David?

  How many board members do you need?

• 20:31Speaker 03

  501(c)(3)'s require a minimum of three, but you really should have five, optically.

• 20:36Patrick Bet-David?

  How many did you have, at the peak?

• 20:39Speaker 03

  I had three at Project Veritas 501(c)(3), and then I had three at 501(c)(4), and they combined the boards when they did this. They just put everyone on the same board.

• 20:49Patrick Bet-David?

  So six. That's an even number, though. Is it, is it a six equal voting, or the one that votes on a 501(c)(4) doesn't have influence over the 501(c)(3)?

• 20:59Speaker 03

  There were only three board members when they, when they did this, and it was a two-to-one vote. Just a two-to-one vote.

• 21:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Who was the one?

• 21:06Speaker 03

  Well, I was the, the third board member, so I was opposed, of course, to this. So it was Tierman and Garvey, John Garvey. And then they combined the other board, which was George Skakel and Joe Barton, and a man named Steve Alemic, who's now deceased.

• 21:19Patrick Bet-David?

  So it became four-to-one?

• 21:20Speaker 03

  It became-

• 21:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Five-to-one?

• 21:22Speaker 03

  Five-to-one.

• 21:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so, profile of those guys?

• 21:25Speaker 03

  Excuse me, four-to-two, when Steve Alemic voted against it.

• 21:27Patrick Bet-David?

  He's the one that passed away?

• 21:28Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 21:29Patrick Bet-David?

  So he was with you?

• 21:30Speaker 03

  He actually committed suicide. You can't make this stuff up. It was a four-to-two vote when they combined the boards, and they voted to indefinitely suspend, you know.

• 21:39Patrick Bet-David?

  He committed suicide?

• 21:40Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 21:40Patrick Bet-David?

  What was the timeline of when he committed suicide?

• 21:44Speaker 03

  It was within the year after this happened.

• 21:46Patrick Bet-David?

  And is there any stories of why he came? Is it non-related to this event? And this event caused so much trauma that he just didn't want to deal with it?

• 21:54Speaker 03

  I don't know. It may be unrelated. I don't know.

• 21:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, maybe unrelated. Of the four board members that were against you, we just learned a little bit about Skakel. Can you tell us a little bit about the other three?

• 22:03Speaker 03

  Absolutely. And there should be some clips in this film to back up what I'm saying. As you know, I like to make factual statements. Matthew Tiramond was the number one orchestrator, the top guy. And I want to take you through a little bit of each of these guys. Matt Tiramond, I was on a boat in the Bahamas, Pat, about eight, nine years ago with a big, big supporter, a big philanthropist. And he said to me, "You have to beware of this man." I said, "Why?" He said, "Because this man is incredibly jealous of you, James. And he wants to be you. You need to get him off your board." Now, at the time, I didn't know what that meant. I was like, "Oh, what does that mean? He admires me? I didn't have any life experience to inform me what could happen to someone who wants to be you."

• 22:48Speaker 03

  But apparently, people saying this guy was very envious. He wanted, you know, to be me or to have what I have, whatever that, we could talk about that. That's Matthew Tiramond, the guy who orchestrated everything. And there are some insane pornographic, obscene messages he sent me. Now, Matthew Tiramond was soliciting the board members to put money into his companies, that he was his for-profit Wall Street. He worked on Wall Street. He has an economics degree from the University of Chicago. His father was a famous Polish anti-communist dissident. A lot of these guys had fathers who were wealthy and famous. So, one theory is that they lived in the shadow of their fathers.

• 23:32Speaker 03

  We could talk more about him in a minute. There's George Skakel, who we've been talking about. There's a man named Joseph Barton. There's federal deposition clips of him in the film. Joe Barton said some pretty crazy things in his deposition. He said, "I'm not entitled to a private life." So, these guys were publishing messages about my personal life with my girlfriend. There's a man named John Garvey, who is about to be deposed. He hasn't yet been deposed. And then there's Steve Almbach, who committed suicide. Those are the board members.

• 24:05Speaker 00

  Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change, your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time.

• 24:17Speaker 01

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• 24:20Speaker 02

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 24:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Of the four, how many of them have you had communication with since they fired you?

• 24:56Speaker 03

  These guys have been obsessively, I mean obsessively posting and tweeting on X about me nonstop for the last two years. Crazy stuff, demonic stuff. You wouldn't even believe me unless I pulled it up on the screen.

• 25:09Patrick Bet-David?

  One of the ones, which one was the one that kept texting you, "I love you. Listen, I feel so bad about what's going on." And then afterwards, "You're a motherfucker," you know, all this stuff. So how often did that happen? Was that board members or were those employees?

• 25:21Speaker 03

  You're referring to in the film, these are, these are some of the employees. Now, now again, at Project Runway, as people don't realize, when I came on your show, we had like 65, 70 employees. That's a, that's a lot of people. And, and you saw about 12 or so were acting in this demonic way. You're referring to a couple of the younger employees who were behaving like this. So they came in the boardroom, they said, "O'Keefe's a mean boss. He yelled at me one time. He's a power drunk tyrant." And then a week later, they would send me an Instagram, "I'm so sorry. I feel horrible for what I did. I never should have done this." And then like a few months later, they're calling me, I can't even say it on the air, but horrible.

• 26:04Speaker 03

  You know, expletive words on, on, on the DMs.

• 26:08Patrick Bet-David?

  So now are you at a point that are we, because to us, when it happened, the first thing I said is, I don't know what Project Veritas is without O'Keefe. And I know they don't like to hear that, you know, a lot of times people think, you know, certain organizations can get the same kind of, same kind of results without the face. Most companies can survive without a face. Most companies could, and you're like, oh my God, Apple will never make it without Steve Jobs. Apple goes from a hundred billion auto company when Steve Jobs dies. Tim Cook did a great job. It's a three trillion auto company. He 30x what Steve Jobs had, right? But this is a small nonprofit that like, when I said you're crazy enough to do stuff like this,

• 26:49Patrick Bet-David?

  the average person doesn't wake up saying, let me go expose Pfizer in the middle of all the shit that's going on. Let me go expose Acorn and have the guy I work with suddenly have a heart attack that nobody knows what's going on, and then Michael Cormier, who is the leading investor, I don't know what, what role he had, and then he all of a sudden dies, and they don't know what he died from.

• 27:12Speaker 05

  They're saying arsenic poisoning in the LA coroner's office.

• 27:15Patrick Bet-David?

  The average person doesn't want to do your job. The average person just wants to consume the content you create. So Project Veritas, we saw one of the recent clips, and the most common question everybody asks is, wait a minute, why does it say Veritas and OMG, right? O'Keefe Media Group. What was that all about? Are you at a point right now where Veritas is coming back under you or not yet?

• 27:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, so they're, they're on the verge of bankruptcy. They, when I, when I was raising $2 million a month, $24 million a year, it's a lot of money to raise as a nonprofit, remember? There's no annuities. You have to ask people for money.

• 27:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Constantly.

• 27:52Speaker 03

  And when they got rid of me, the donations just stopped. Everybody wanted their money back. And in that board meeting, I had one trump card, because these guys were, it was like a struggle session. They just wanted to make me feel abused. It was a lot of envy and just petty human things that, this is not unique. It happens in a lot of organizations. But to your point, what are they gonna do if they get rid of the guy who's... The raising all the funds, they didn't have an answer and they didn't care. Now, in the movie, I noticed your producer had that 54-minute movie. If you can find this moment where it's about three-quarters of the way through, towards the end of that board meeting. Uh, that's the guy, Matthew Tierman, you just saw him on the screen right there. There was a quote that's incredibly important.

• 28:37Speaker 03

  And I said, I, point of order. What are you guys gonna do? Cause that's, that's the trump card I had. What's your plan? Okay, you wanna lash me, you wanna crucify me, you wanna make me feel abused. And Tierman says something, and I hope you can pull it up, that that same guy, he goes, "We have 65 employees, we're gonna be fine without James O'Keefe." They actually believed, or they wanted to believe.

• 29:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Not for a product like this.

• 29:03Speaker 03

  But, but, but you see, that's so interesting about human nature, isn't it? Because when you're that envious, when you're that resentful, when you're that deluded. Uh, there it is, right there, you got it. 65 employees, you just passed it a moment ago. My question is, what is the plan of, of, uh, if you implement this solution?

• 29:23Speaker 06

  Project Veritas is an organization that has 65 incredibly talented individuals who are capable of doing journalism. We don't believe that there will be any lost output on the margins.

• 29:37Speaker 03

  Cut. There it is. So they actually believed that there wouldn't be any lost output on the margins. Literally the exact opposite happened. Every donor wanted their money back. Nobody trusted anything they had to say. Now, they believed, but content is king. Our journalism matters. But the problem, what they failed to understand is investigative journalism is all about trust. And if you behave like this, nobody's gonna trust anything that you report. And I think that's what they failed to understand. But Matthew Tierman actually believed that Project Veritas didn't need James O'Keefe anymore.

• 30:14Patrick Bet-David?

  So they also apparently lost 200,000 followers, like within days of us, you know, the audience finding out that you're no longer tied to them. So even the Veritas account, I don't know what it was, but I saw somewhere that they lost a couple hundred thousand followers as well. So what, what number did that 24 million dollars go down to?

• 30:32Speaker 03

  The revenue, you mean?

• 30:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Yes.

• 30:33Speaker 03

  It was zero. Negative equity. There was one individual, I can't name the donors under the Freedom of Association, under the First Amendment, but one donor said, "I want my $1 million check back." The chief financial officer said, "It's unlawful for us to return your check. That's not true." The donors wanted their money back, so they went, they went deeply into, into debt. So when I left, there was somewhere around $10 million in cash and no debt. No debt. And, and, and now they're like $2 million in debt with no cash.

• 31:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you gonna, is it gonna come back to you? Or is that where you are where?

• 31:09Speaker 03

  Eventually. And the, the people, your audience might be wondering, "Well, why can't O'Keefe talk about the specifics of the, of the negotiations?" Because I promised the court, "I won't." And I'm a man of my word. On settlement negotiations, you can't talk about the details. I can talk about the proceedings, that's public. I just can't talk about the details of the so-called settlement, you know, the, the talks of acquiring or getting the information back. All I can tell you is that I'm in talks to, to, to reacquire Project Veritas.

• 31:39Patrick Bet-David?

  When you put that Project Veritas on the back of that most recent video that you did, why did you do that?

• 31:45Speaker 03

  Because we had filmed a video in front of that brick, brick wall, uh, big brick wall backdrop. We literally, brick by brick rebuilt the Project Veritas studio here in West Palm Beach, Florida, where I now, I now live, because I was about to, imminently about to announce that I'm reacquiring Project Veritas.

• 32:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, so it wasn't finalized yet. So did you have permission from them to use that? Can you use that? Was that a conversation you had with them?

• 32:11Speaker 03

  I'm allowed to, the, there's no, there's no trademark of, of the, of the, of the logo. In fact, I've, I've applied for the trademark myself. So I'm allowed to use it.

• 32:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 32:22Speaker 03

  I'm allowed to report, the same reason I'm allowed to report on the court proceedings, for sure.

• 32:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, I mean, look, the, the work you do and did is not everyone's work. It's not something everyone wants to do, nor can do in the manner that you do it, because you... Stay poised and calm in the moments that you're in. And you get in the faces of people, yet still stay respectful. That's, that's not easy for people to do. Because some people in that moment, they get so emotional. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they don't know how to come down. You stay. So you, you can't even train somebody to be like that. You either have it, or you don't have it. One can get better, but you can't just train someone and say, why can't you do what O'Keefe does? It's not a skill set they can teach anybody.

• 33:07Patrick Bet-David?

  So hopefully to go to that direction, because I think your job is a very important job. To move on, is there anything else you want to tell the audience before we move on from this story? Because obviously, we're going to put the link below to go watch the documentary.

• 33:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:19Patrick Bet-David?

  But is there any final thoughts on this story?

• 33:21Speaker 03

  A couple of things. Number one, you can watch the movie, o'keefemediagroup.com. It's nine dollars. People say, why are you charging for journalism? Well, most of the, most of the journalism I don't charge for. But I think this movie is incredibly cinematic. I know you watched it yesterday. It's a, it's an incredible experience, and it's a really story about human nature. This is about human nature. How do I build an, an organization? It's not really a business. I mean, it is a business, but it's, it's a mission. How do you create a sustainable entity? A team of people going after the most powerful people in the world, which I will continue to do. We're about to talk about Epstein, all these other things I'm doing right now. How do you build that without it getting corrupted?

• 34:05Speaker 03

  Without people lying about you to the FBI to protect their families, right? These are really hard questions that I haven't yet fully figured out yet. I'm learning, I'm experimenting. Nobody does this. So I'm trying to create a sustainable organization that can do it at scale. And to be fired from the company that I created and to build something from nothing. You mentioned in the film, George Kekel says, you can't afford my house. That statement said so much about him, didn't it? Anybody who says that, you can't afford my house. It, and I don't know if you can play that real quick.

• 34:40Patrick Bet-David?

  It's all the way at the end, Rob.

• 34:41Speaker 03

  This is the thing that actually struck people. Of all the things in the film, it's the very last, like, thing that happens in the movie. Uh, this really struck people. And it says so much about the character of these people. It's about like thirty or-

• 34:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, they're literally standing, that's right there, right there.

• 34:57Speaker 03

  Play it.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  George. Were you an investor in the same company as Matt Tierman? Some of them. You didn't disclose that. But I wasn't an investor in the companies while I was on your board.

• 35:11Speaker 06

  While you were on the board?

• 35:14Speaker 07

  Yes, I think I was on the board then.

• 35:16Speaker 03

  You weren't? No. When did you become an investor? After I left your board. Is that right?

• 35:21Speaker 06

  How much did you invest in each of Matt Tierman's companies?

• 35:24Speaker 07

  I don't think that's any of your business.

• 35:26Speaker 06

  I think it is. How much did you?

• 35:28Speaker 07

  We have a disagreement.

• 35:30Speaker 06

  Are you refusing to answer the question?

• 35:32Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 35:32Speaker 03

  I want to talk about your investments in the medical companies. I want to talk about you. How much money did you spend on private helicopters?

• 35:39Speaker 07

  I wasn't particularly concerned about the financial stuff.

• 35:43Speaker 03

  There is no reason for me to disclose anything. My personal investments? Yes. That's ridiculous. Well, you said you're a businessman and Pfizer could be a buyer. What did you mean by that? What did you mean by that? I invest in businesses. That's not news. It's about making money. It's all about making money, isn't it? How do you think I paid for this? Is it all about money? Too bad you can't afford that. There it is, right there. Because you're a cheat. You're a liar. Yeah, well, it's all about money, isn't it? It's all about money. Because I'm not a business guy. It's all about money, isn't it? This was one of my closest associates. It was almost like an uncle to me. And unfortunately, I think I would say the last comment is, I don't know whether the commercial imperative,

• 36:27Speaker 03

  the profit-making mechanism, is compatible with absolute truth-telling. When I watch the people closest to... I mean, this guy was an uncular figure. His wife was like my second mother. And money just unfortunately tends to corrupt. So it's a deeper, more philosophical concept. I just wanted to get that out and tell you that I'm working on it. And I think the solution is to find really strong people with really strong convictions who are not for sale and unbreakable. And if I can surround myself with those types of people, I think I will be okay.

• 37:04Patrick Bet-David?

  That's a perfect transition into the one video clip, Rob, if you can, about your life, right? We've all seen this clip. Vinny, you love this clip.

• 37:11Speaker 07

  I love it.

• 37:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you... Rob, is there music in this one? I think there is, right?

• 37:15Speaker 07

  I believe there is.

• 37:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Is it gonna be okay to play it with the music?

• 37:17Speaker 07

  As long as we comment.

• 37:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 37:18Speaker 03

  It's on YouTube Shorts without music too, whichever your preference is.

• 37:21Patrick Bet-David?

  What is the message of it, Rob?

• 37:24Speaker 07

  If the price isn't your life...

• 37:26Speaker 05

  Then you're for sale.

• 37:27Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 37:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Let me see if I can find it on YouTube without the music.

• 37:31Speaker 03

  It's YouTube Shorts is without music.

• 37:35Speaker 05

  I mean, the music adds a...

• 37:37Speaker 03

  It adds, it adds something to it.

• 37:38Speaker 05

  You feel like you wanna cry.

• 37:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:42Speaker 03

  There it is.

• 37:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that the one?

• 37:43Speaker 03

  That's it, without music.

• 37:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, go for it, Rob.

• 37:46Speaker 03

  Is it 10 million? Go back to the beginning, cuz you clipped out the first few seconds. Is it 20 million? What is your price?

• 37:50Patrick Bet-David?

  There you go.

• 37:51Speaker 03

  Is it 10 million? Is it 20 million? Is it 100 million? What is your price? Because if your price is not your life, then you are for sale.

• 38:05Speaker 03

  If your price is not your life, then you are for sale.

• 38:12Speaker 03

  So, if you're gonna be a truth teller, your price has to be your life. I can't surround myself with people whose price is not their life. Because the enemy, whatever the enemy is, whether it be physical, legal, spiritual, will, will, will attack the vulnerability of the person who can be compromised. So you get real spiritual, real fast, uh, if you're gonna do this type of work. What is your price?

• 38:37Speaker 05

  James, and I've, I've seen this multiple times. I've shared it with people. We've played it on the podcast. I think what you're doing, you're, you're hands down the, the best journalist. You don't give a shit. You even said right now that you're not in the, like, what, what money are you making from exposing the truth? I know it's, it's gonna be damn near impossible to trust every single person because what you said about the money situation. But in regard to this video, James, with the price of your life, has anybody, I'm pretty sure they have, approached you of any people of power that have tried to offer? Maybe a Soros, maybe somebody, somebody to tell you like, James, shut up, here's money, we'll give you this, disappear. Leave us alone.

• 39:16Speaker 03

  It's, it's a very interesting... Yeah, this one, and I remember, Ben, you DM'd to me. I appreciate that very much. You're very touched by this.

• 39:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, big time.

• 39:25Speaker 03

  At the time. People were, you could hear the murmurs in the crowd. These are men twice my age.

• 39:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Yes.

• 39:30Speaker 03

  Just a simple statement. They're like, "Whoa, what a concept." I mean, this is not, you know, these are, these are...

• 39:40Speaker 03

  There have been a couple times in meetings where people have, the closest thing I could say was a person of wealth would ask me to do something, and I would say, "I can't, I can't, this is not an exchange of goods and services. I can't do something in exchange for you paying me to do it. That's not how I work as a journalist. I have to operate impartially without fear." And when the person realized where I was coming from, they kind of backed off. They're like, "Oh, no, that's okay." I almost feel like they're concerned that I'm gonna like record them trying to bribe me, which I would.

• 40:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Of course, that's who you are.

• 40:15Speaker 03

  So when they realized, when they danced on that precipice and they realized where I was coming from, I think they realized, "Oh, Keith could expose me." And to their credit, they back off. And there's that interesting dance where they're maybe they're in their minds trying to corrupt me, but they then realize I could expose them. Yeah, so there's been that.

• 40:38Patrick Bet-David?

  So, so, you know, you hear a message like that with life and, you know, your life's on the line, and some of the stories you pursue. Now, here's the thing. Politically, James, what would you say you are politically?

• 40:51Speaker 03

  I don't even know anymore. I, I say the truth, I did a story on Pam Bondi.

• 40:58Patrick Bet-David?

  That's exactly where I'm going with this, yeah.

• 41:00Speaker 03

  And I took, I took a hit. I was, I think, I tell stories by way of example because I think it's better than abstractions. I did a story on the Attorney General of the United States, and it was hard for me because I don't dislike her or like her. It's not about whether I like someone or dislike them. It's about whether the public has a right to know the information I'm exposing. I tend to have been branded as a conservative only because I felt the legacy media in the last decade and two decades has been... Not telling the truth, and if you do tell the truth, then you're branded as a right-winger. But I don't even know what these terms mean anymore. I really don't know what it means to be a liberal or conservative anymore. Do you? I don't, I don't understand.

• 41:43Patrick Bet-David?

  I think conservative values are pretty, uh, clear. I think liberal values are not today. They're confused. But conservative values, family, you know, country, you know, uh, uh, America first, making sure we're not going for nonsense wars where people's kids are, you know, fighting a war that's unnecessary because somebody's making money on the back end and deals are getting done. Faith, freedom of speech, tho- those are conservative values, right, that I would say they're there. And watching you, I would say you have, you have-

• 42:14Speaker 03

  Well, constitutionalist, you know, I'm a, I'm a very strong First Amendment, perhaps one could say absolutist, uh, for, on the First Amendment, with some exceptions. So I would say I believe in, for example, one of, one of my values and virtues is I believe in equal, equal justice before the law. I think the law should, I know that it's impossible, but we should try to emulate this. We should, the law should treat people equally. Some would say that's a conservative value, right? That's a, that's an American and, and quite conservative value. And I also believe in the freedom of speech. And I'm an absolutist when it comes to that.

• 42:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, and, and, and where I'm going with this is the following. So, video comes out because a, a lot of conservatives were told, on day one, week one, you know, we're gonna find out about Epstein, 9/11, MLK, John F. Kennedy, we're gonna find all that stuff out. And we've been wanting it for a while, to see what's going on with this, who's behind it, especially the last few years, at a whole different level. And we're gonna find out who the assassination attempt was, was, was he tied to anybody, was Thomas tied to anybody? And then we all see the same clip that you've seen, right? It's the clip with Bongino and Kash Patel.

• 43:22Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 43:23Patrick Bet-David?

  If, if you can pull that clip up, Rob. And, you know, these are two men that almost anybody who know, I think that's the one right there, almost anybody that knows them would call them patriots, right?

• 43:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:36Patrick Bet-David?

  They've served their country. They've given their lives to the country. Dan has, at the highest level, so has Kash Patel. And then we see this clip here that throws a lot of people off. Go for it, Rob.

• 43:46Speaker 07

  Said Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide. People don't believe it. Well, I mean, listen, they have a right to their opinion, but as someone who has-

• 43:56Speaker 03

  Worked as a public defender, as a prosecutor who's been in that prison system, who's been in the Metropolitan Detention Center, who's been in segregated housing, you know a suicide when you see one, and that's what that was.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  He killed himself. Again, you want me to, I've, I've seen the whole file. He killed himself.

• 44:13Speaker 07

  I know it's hard work. You said-

• 44:16Patrick Bet-David?

  And you saw people that have done, body language, you know, Dan looks uncomfortable, saying what he's saying, the way he answered it, you can tell the role played that, and you know, they're, now this is purely what people are speculating, right? And then you have this one clip with Pam Bondi. If you have the Pam Bondi one-

• 44:34Speaker 03

  I'd like to play that.

• 44:35Patrick Bet-David?

  So maybe walk us through what's going on here before we-

• 44:37Speaker 03

  I don't know if you want me to narrate live as opposed to watching me on the screen-

• 44:40Patrick Bet-David?

  What's better to do-

• 44:41Speaker 03

  Perhaps we go, we go to the beginning of where you see Pam Bondi on the hidden camera, so I'll just talk live what I said on the camera. Okay, so there she is at the White House, go back to the beginning of that clip of her live. So, that was a tough one for me to publish, because I, I, you asked if I'm political, and I think I'm, you know, you have to decide who you want to be. Are you a political operative, or are you a journalist? And to be a journalist, it's hard, because you have to do things like this. Pam Bondi was caught in a restaurant, telling a stranger, a nanny, on April 28th or so, that there are tens of thousands of videos involving little children.

• 45:24Speaker 03

  Now, I didn't target her, I didn't seek to get this, people send me stuff, sometimes I've undercover people all over the country, and they happen to get a conversation in the airport. I get sent this, I'm like, holy, holy shit. This is not public. The Attorney General of the United States, and by the way, Cash, I believe the FBI reports to her, so this is the top dog- Yep. -is saying to a nanny in a restaurant, something that no one knows. And to me, I'm like, well, that, that's an interesting story, is it not? So I do what I have to do, I reach out to the Attorney General's office for comment, I say, the, you know, Pam Bondi, the Attorney of the United States, was caught in a restaurant saying, and I actually wonder whether I should have done that, I probably did him a favor

• 46:09Speaker 03

  by, by, by giving them the exact quotes.

• 46:14Speaker 03

  And then, a few days later, she says the exact same thing publicly that I emailed the Attorney General's Office for comment, saying, and play the clip of her at the White House. This is what she said.

• 46:25Speaker 00

  Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change, your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 47:10Speaker 03

  ...of thousands of videos of Epstein with children or child porn. Now, this is the first time an official has publicly acknowledged that videos of Epstein and his victims exist. What you may not know is just nine days prior, the Attorney General had a very similar conversation with a total stranger in a restaurant.

• 47:34Speaker 06

  Do you know when the Epstein files are gonna be released? Um, we hope soon. I'll be right there. Okay. Any dates? No, you know what it is?

• 47:43Speaker 05

  There are thousands and thousands of videos. Yeah, and it's all with little kids, so they have to go through every one.

• 47:51Speaker 03

  Pause. So it's interesting, because she said it privately in a restaurant to, well... Publicly, technically. Publicly, publicly in a restaurant, not privately. And to me, it's like, that's something, something... So I felt like I had to publish this. Now, if she hadn't have gone publicly and said this, and I had released this clip in the restaurant, it would have been a much, much, much bigger deal. But it does raise questions, doesn't it? Why is this, why are they not being transparent with the American people? Why are they telling a nanny in a restaurant? So it raises questions to your point about Cash. I know Cash a little bit. I think he is a good man. And I mean that, based upon what I know about him. I don't know Dan as much, but I also think he's a good man.

• 48:34Speaker 03

  I don't trust the bureaucracy that reports to them. And if you put any good man, and the most ethical person at the top of that bureaucracy, I think you're setting them up for failure. Let me give you a specific example of where I'm coming from. I was raided by the FBI shortly before I met you. The FBI pointed guns at me and took my reporter's notebooks. They just recently closed the case against me a few months ago, the FBI, in February of this year. And they gave me back my phones that they had for three and a half years. When you get a, when you get a search warrant to conduct a raid, you have to go to a judge, right? With a reason, oh, we have this probable cause, the reasons why to raid.

• 49:15Speaker 03

  When you close a case, which is very rare for the FBI to execute a search warrant and not bring charges, it hardly ever happens. You are required by law to give a copy of the probable cause. That is the reason why you conducted the raid. Guess what they did? They redacted every single word of the probable cause used to raid my newsroom. Every word. Maybe your producer can pull it up on Google or something. Every word. There's a black bar, Pat, through. It's ridiculous. It's literally black bars. And we're not talking about terrorists. We're not talking about Jeff Epstein. We're not talking about child molesters and drug traffickers. We're talking about James O'Keefe, the journalist.

• 49:59Speaker 03

  So if our FBI, our Attorney General's office, can't be transparent about why they raided a journalist's newsroom, why do we have any faith in the FBI to be transparent about these other, these other issues? That's where I'm coming from on this.

• 50:14Speaker 05

  And is this, is this in regard to the Ashley Biden diary, James? This is it, right? Because you exposed, because somebody contacted you and told them that they found the diary of the daughter of the President of the United States, saying a bunch of stuff and also claiming that her father showered with her, probably at inappropriate ages, and then they raided your house.

• 50:34Speaker 03

  Correct. Yeah, it's an affidavit. It's on my, go down, go down. It's Roger Veritas journalist detained, devices seized. This is not it, but it's on my X page. There's a, there's a, there's on page 47 of the affidavit.

• 50:50Speaker 03

  Every word is redacted. I mean, I, I, I was enraged. The ACIA, the American Civil Liberties Union, which is a liberal group, came to my demand. This is like, this is crazy. You take, if, if another country, like Ukraine, or Russia, or North Korea, did this, our State Department would, so my, my point is, I don't have a lot of faith in these institutions. I just don't.

• 51:15Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think happens when they get in? That's what I want to know. Because to me-

• 51:19Speaker 03

  There it is, right there. I apologize. I apologize. Could you just, I apologize, interrupt.

• 51:23Speaker 05

  Is that real?

• 51:23Speaker 03

  That's a real, that's a real document. Can you zoom in, please?

• 51:26Speaker 05

  What?

• 51:27Speaker 03

  It says probable, probable cause justifying search of O'Keefe's person and premises. Every single word is redacted. They even redacted the footnote.

• 51:36Speaker 05

  So, so-

• 51:37Speaker 03

  Isn't this insane? There's more of this.

• 51:39Speaker 05

  So it means they can do whatever they want, and they don't have to show you why they came in your house?

• 51:42Speaker 03

  It's, it's literally, it's a viola, look at this, look at this.

• 51:46Patrick Bet-David?

  The whole thing. Keep going, Rob.

• 51:47Speaker 05

  Like, okay, oh, I see what they did there.

• 51:50Speaker 03

  Okay, go, wait, wait, there's something unredacted. Read the bottom.

• 51:53Speaker 05

  What's the bottom?

• 51:54Speaker 03

  Read that. Based upon my, this is an FBI agent, "I have learned, among other things, that cellphones are capable of sending emails."

• 52:00Speaker 05

  Great.

• 52:01Speaker 03

  Are you kidding me?

• 52:02Speaker 05

  I'm shocked they didn't redact that.

• 52:04Speaker 03

  This is not Saturday Night Live. And then it goes on to the rest of the affidavit. But the previous three pages are the probable cause. That is the justification for the raid against James O'Keefe.

• 52:15Speaker 05

  And James, if you don't mind, what were they looking for? The diary?

• 52:18Speaker 03

  They weren't looking for the diary, it was, they already, they already had that. What were they, well, that's a loaded question. Were they really trying to do?

• 52:26Speaker 05

  What were they really trying to?

• 52:26Speaker 03

  They were really trying to get inside my cellphone, because people in the government come to me with information, which as a reporter, I have a right to receive, and they don't like that.

• 52:35Speaker 05

  Of course.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  Now, if you think about-

• 52:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Did you, did you give them the password to your cellphone?

• 52:39Speaker 03

  This is another very interesting story.

• 52:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Because you know what happened with Ron Johnson, where, when they walked up to his house, and they took his phone, and the rule of thumb, if you ever hand your phone over, never, you're not supposed to give the password. How did he get into your phone?

• 52:51Speaker 03

  This is a crazy story. They bang on the door, and it's the loudest pounding, you know it's the feds, you just know. And I go to the door, I'm like, "Oh, I'm opening the door," because, you know, they're gonna shoot me, and I'm, and then they open, they put me in handcuffs, I think I'm under arrest, they say, "No, this is a search warrant." I say, "I want to speak to my lawyer." I say, "Over and over again, I want to speak to my lawyer," because I learned I was arrested 10 years prior. "Don't talk to the FBI, just don't, even if you're innocent."

• 53:18Speaker 03

  They say, "Would you like to use the iPhone on your nightstand?" I said, "Yes." And then, I unlocked the phone because I have to call my lawyer. Get out of here. And the moment that I unlocked my phone, they snatched the phone. Get out of here. Not get out of here. Holy shit. They snatched the phone out of my hand because I unlocked the phone. And then the FBI agent, like, almost to torture me, in front of me, he goes to the settings and he changes the settings to make it not go to sleep. Wow. And then they put the phone in an evidence bag. Now, the FBI has access to all of my Signal messages. Do you know what's in my Signal messages? All the people in the government that come to me with information. Wow.

• 54:03Speaker 03

  So the Department of Justice, this is the Biden Department, or the, uh, the month before Trump was elected in 2020. Excuse me, Biden was elected in 2020. Now they have access to all of my sources. Jeez. So this is what gets considered to be a constitutional raping. Because the American Bill of Rights have special protections for reporters. And, and I'm the, you're talking to the only newsroom that has ever been raided by the FBI. We're the only ones that have ever been raided. And they did it just to get the information. So, what's behind all those black bars? I believe confidential FBI informants. Of course. People who lied to the FBI to set me up. So, I could tell you so many war stories, guys, but you ask me questions about Cash and Dan Bongino.

• 54:46Speaker 03

  They're great guys. I think they mean well. But if you put me in charge of the FBI, I wouldn't know what to do. I mean, how do you trust a bureaucracy like that? Where people behave, that, by the way, that is totally illegal. You can't take a gun, point it against your forehead, and say, "Give me your reporter's notebooks." If that happened in Eastern Europe, our State Department would be issuing sanctions against that country. But it happened in New York.

• 55:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, so, so guys, one question, James. So, they promised all this, day one, we're gonna do this, day one, we're gonna do that. What do you think happened? Meaning, they're in now. Donald Trump is the president, he's told them, "Go ahead, you guys do whatever you want." What, who, who makes a Pam Bondi, a Dan Bongino, a Kash Patel, all of a sudden change their tunes and not release what we know? Because, James, at the end of the day, she even said, "Tens of thousands," I'm assuming, James, is, let's say, 30,000 hours of grown men having sex with children. And, James, I don't know if you're familiar, in the movie JFK, Jim Garrison says, and I quote, "Let justice be done, though the heavens fall," which basically means going after truth, no matter how powerful the people and no matter what happens to the system.

• 55:59Speaker 05

  So what happens? What, what do you think? They go in and who, who tells them, "You are not releasing any of this because our friends and blah, blah, blah are attached to it."

• 56:07Speaker 03

  I, I don't know if anyone tells them. I mean, some have said they, they put you in a SCIF. This is, this is more of a, this is not a fact. This is speculation, but a funny notion that might illustrate what could happen is, you know, that image of JFK getting shot?

• 56:24Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 56:24Speaker 03

  Do they put the leaders in a SCIF? That's a secure compartmentalized information facility. Do they show the Zapruder film of JFK getting shot and said, "You better do what we tell you to do, or that could be you." Now, I'm not saying they did that to these gentlemen. And I actually genuinely mean this. I've met Cash. I think he's a genuinely good man. I just don't, I think the system is institutionally corrupt. And everyone says, you know what they say to me, Pat? "Oh, call Cash, he'll help you out." "Call Bam, call Pam." Yeah, like I got them on speed dial. They're getting asked for 10,000 favors a day. I don't have, I don't have any money to give them. The system is so broken when you need the guy at the top to be so influential. It's the system.

• 57:08Speaker 03

  It's the Article III judges. It's the courts. It's the line prosecutors. The agents in my apartment. Do you know that when the agents were in my apartment, I could tell by the looks on their faces that they didn't want to be there? Like this is, this is, this is crazy. This is, this is wrong. But they did it.

• 57:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, speculate a little bit. What do you think happens when they get in? Because they tend to change when they get in.

• 57:30Speaker 03

  You're talking about the FBI agents?

• 57:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Anybody and everybody. The moment they get in. And the whole quote by Mario Cuomo, people campaigning, uh, poetry, but they govern in prose, you know, once they go in. You know, they used to communicate and talk to you. Now, the only way they talk to you is with emojis. You know, hey, when they were campaigning, they wanted to talk to you regularly. I want to come on the podcast. I want to do this, I want to do that. And then all of a sudden, they're in. They're, they're more, uh, uh, quiet about it. What do you think happens when they get in?

• 57:59Speaker 03

  Politics, politics. I'm working on a story right now. One of the directors of the agency, they mean well. They go into FEMA, they go on the IRS. They have all these notions of freedom and prosperity and eliminating waste, fraud and abuse. But then they get in there and they're such snakes in these entities. Just, I mean, you know, I mean, DC, it's a land of phonies and narcissists. They're not attracted to do the right thing. They want power and money and sex. Are we, are we under some delusion that the people in Washington want something other than power and money and sex? What percentage of the people in Washington inside these agencies are actually there to do the right thing?

• 58:39Speaker 03

  What percentage, for real? Are, are we naive and foolish enough to think that people are in these places?

• 58:46Patrick Bet-David?

  I think they start off wanting to do the right thing. And then through peer pressure, they get, they get forced.

• 58:52Speaker 03

  Or there, there's a few people. Or there's a few people that are there who do the right thing, but there's so many snakes and manipulative. Look what happened to me. Look why I'm on your show. I started my own institution because I didn't want to be part of the snakes. And, and the snakes infiltrate. And I, I think in some regards, it's human nature. Um, and this is a really good question you're asking. I'm learning in real time. I started an institution because I didn't trust institutions and then I'm removed from my own institution by snakes.

• 59:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 59:26Speaker 03

  Hello, everyone. I'm James O'Keefe. Been doing this journalism thing for about 20 years. Truth, justice, exposing corruption, everything that comes along with it. If you want to connect with me, talk to me about any of this, you can connect with me through Minect. You can see the QR code below. Look forward to hearing from you.

• 59:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, but what I, what I want to know is. You have a creative mind.

• 59:50Speaker 03

  Okay, go ahead.

• 59:50Patrick Bet-David?

  So, let's say, let's say, out of a hundred people that get in there, okay.

• 59:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Let's say fifty of them are in there because they're driven by power, fame, prestige, you know, narcissists, all that stuff, okay. Let's say twenty percent get in because they're statesmen, they love America, they're, you know, they're, you just really want to go out there and make a difference. Let's say thirty percent get in because they think it's a good job, right? It's like, it's a pretty good job, I'm gonna go try it out, see what I can do, I'm gonna go be a lawyer. Okay. The fifty percent are the ones that found a place where they can use their evil tendencies and...

• 1:00:28Speaker 03

  I understand what you're saying, I understand what you're saying.

• 1:00:30Patrick Bet-David?

  But, once the twenty percent gets in.

• 1:00:32Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:00:32Patrick Bet-David?

  The twenty percent are the ones that are getting in that, I'm a statesman. I love America.

• 1:00:38Speaker 03

  Got it.

• 1:00:38Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, it's bigger than this. What do you think happens for the twenty percenters to flip?

• 1:00:42Speaker 03

  What I think is, you, was you say twenty percent statesmen get in there, something like that?

• 1:00:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Let's say it's twenty percent, I'm just making up a number.

• 1:00:48Speaker 03

  I think that's accurate, I think that's accurate, I think there are probably twenty percent, I was probably embellishing. The problem is, is if you're in an institution, you have leakers, or, or, one or two people at the top, all it takes is a couple, that are sabotaging your campaign, that are leaking your confidential informants to the press, it completely sabotages your operation. So, the problem in, in these institutions, if you don't have your team, which is like a hundred percent loyal and in, in high integrity, even a few of these snakes can destroy the entity. So, that, that is, that is the problem in my view, is that you have a couple people at the top

• 1:01:29Speaker 03

  who, who are engaged in gaslighting, destructive campaigns. Uh, maybe, Bongino, here's another thing, like, they're getting fed information that is not true. Uh, and they're put in a position, an untenable situation, where it's difficult for them to be successful. That's what I think.

• 1:01:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, James, here's my question, though. If they're, from her words, we all, everybody heard it, twice, one to a stranger, one in front of a camera on the White House lawn.

• 1:01:57Speaker 05

  They have tens of thousands of hours, that's mind boggling, of grown men having sex with children. Okay? What, who has the power, James? To not let them expose those people right now? Because those people are still walking around pedophiles. Sexual assault, pedophiles that belong in prison and to me, I believe they deserve to die. Okay, that's my thing.

• 1:02:22Speaker 03

  I agree.

• 1:02:22Speaker 05

  Who's stopping them, James, from releasing one of the names? We know the whole backstory with Epstein, but you mean to tell me you guys are watching these videos every single day? And nobody's been taken off the street?

• 1:02:32Speaker 03

  That's a question that Dan Bongino and Kash Patel need to answer.

• 1:02:36Speaker 05

  Will they?

• 1:02:36Speaker 03

  They need to answer. Will they, do they have the courage to answer it? Why aren't they answering it? By the way, people expect me to answer that question. I don't have any power. I mean, I'm, other than the authority that sources give to me when they give me information. I'll tell you something. I released some videos in the last week inside of Epstein's bedroom. In the British Virgin Islands, excuse me, the American Virgin Islands. I'm releasing images inside of his temple. Some interesting stuff on the chalkboard, by the way. There's a weird picture of a baby in his dining room, some weird, there's his chalkboard. The FBI had those videos, but you know who released it? O'Keefe Media.

• 1:03:13Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:03:14Speaker 03

  So why can't they release the binders that was, remember the binders they released?

• 1:03:18Speaker 05

  Yep, yep.

• 1:03:18Speaker 03

  Okay, if they released, why can't they release this stuff? Why am I releasing it?

• 1:03:21Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:03:22Speaker 03

  I mean, there's no sex of children in there. That's something you could show the public. That's Epstein's writing, by the way, on the chalkboard. Some mysterious encrypted messages there. I think our government-

• 1:03:33Speaker 05

  What's it say, power, deception, music?

• 1:03:35Speaker 03

  A mirror in face, either dank brain or dark brain. One, these are, the public is deciphering these messages that Jeff Epstein- This is video, by the way, if you're wondering what this is, this is of days after he was raided. Shortly after his arrest there in 2019, 2020. And that's the penmanship to show that it is, was in fact Jeff Epstein's writing on the chalkboard. So we released this video. And my point is, someone inside the United States government provided that to me.

• 1:04:05Speaker 05

  Someone inside the United States government gave that to you?

• 1:04:08Speaker 03

  That's correct.

• 1:04:10Patrick Bet-David?

  That you're in communication with?

• 1:04:11Speaker 03

  That's correct.

• 1:04:12Patrick Bet-David?

  High ranking or mid-level?

• 1:04:13Speaker 03

  I can't say.

• 1:04:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. But they gave it to you because they knew that the government wasn't gonna release it. So let me have it released by an OMG.

• 1:04:24Speaker 03

  They gave it to me because they don't trust the FBI.

• 1:04:27Patrick Bet-David?

  And they work for the FBI?

• 1:04:28Speaker 03

  I can't say.

• 1:04:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. And some of the stuff that I saw, the statues, the angel statue, right? The girl in the bathroom, sitting there, the uh...

• 1:04:40Speaker 03

  That's a strange statue here.

• 1:04:41Speaker 05

  It's a, it's, it looks, it's a...

• 1:04:42Speaker 03

  It's like Eyes Wide Shut like sort of stuff there with the, with the weird...

• 1:04:46Speaker 05

  It's an angel?

• 1:04:46Speaker 03

  There's a woman that doing something to her private parts there.

• 1:04:49Speaker 05

  It's a freaking demonic house, bro.

• 1:04:51Speaker 03

  There is some, a book, a book regarding Satan in the bookshelf. We got some books there. So yeah, this was provided to me. You're, you're looking at the library, the bedroom of Jeffrey Epstein and the little Saint James, the Epstein Island. This is inside of his library. No one's ever seen this before. Um, some people attacking me for publishing this. Oh, we want the names, James. We don't care about his library. But my, oh, there it is, Satanic Verses and some other books there.

• 1:05:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie?

• 1:05:19Speaker 03

  Salman Rushdie, right. That's, that's different. But, um, people were attacking me because they want the names. And my philosophy is that if I continue to publish all these things, sources will continue to come out.

• 1:05:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so let me, let me ask this question to, to go to the next level. Your, your method on how you get it, right? Your method on how you guys gather intel. It seems to be a pattern that a lot of these, like, it's almost like if I was to audit you to see what your game plan is. You, you tend to target people that work in the office that are gay. That, let me just say it and then just flush mine out and call me out and say, no, I disagree. So through Grindr... Dating sites, you'll go in. Step number one, let's identify anybody on this administration that is gay. Alright, great. Step number two.

• 1:06:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Go on Grindr and see if you see their profile that matches this, great. Let's make 20 different profiles and let's see if one of the ones he'll fall for. Great. Four. Schedule a date to go out and put the camera and the recording on you. And nonchalant ask, what are you doing? Act like you don't know what they're doing. You don't have a clue who they are. And act dumb. And then, uh, step number six. Let's have a couple of drinks, loosen them up, make them feel like you're ready to go home and have some fun with them. Step number seven. Say, let's follow up, I have to go home, I'm so sorry. And then number eight, release the information. Is that pretty spot on on the system and the approach you guys take? Or am I missing a few steps?

• 1:06:53Speaker 03

  You might, you might be missing a few, but I think that's not 100% of what we do. That might be like 30% of, of, that's one technique to get information, yes.

• 1:07:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so if that's the case, i- i- i- if that's the case.

• 1:07:08Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:09Patrick Bet-David?

  How come, have you had any, or have you tried, maybe the better question is to say, I am sure you've tried to get Fauci. I'm sure you've tried to get his people. I am sure you've tried to, you know, uh, uh, uh, see how you can find him to get him in a place to open up and talk. The question would be, one, have you, two, why have you not been that successful with Fauci?

• 1:07:33Speaker 03

  Specifically Anthony Fauci.

• 1:07:34Patrick Bet-David?

  I am specifically talking about Anthony Fauci.

• 1:07:36Speaker 03

  The man, not his staff, for example.

• 1:07:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, anybody that's, uh, uh, his lieutenants, that would be a staff as well. That's still a very valuable asset because what you did with Pfizer was very powerful. Why haven't you gone, been successful with Fauci?

• 1:07:49Speaker 03

  You know, that's a, I don't have a legitimate excuse there. I, I suppose, um, I, I like to say this to my staff that, and I hate to refer to myself in the third person, but O'Keefe, O'Keefe Media, my organization. We always get the story, sometimes it just might take longer for us to get it. So I would say we haven't gotten him yet. Uh, have I made the attempts? I mean, we did so many stories about Pfizer specifically, but to your point, why haven't we gone after this man in particular? Oh, I remember about two, three years ago, I, I did some, everything I'm talking about is legal. But I did some, a lot of surveillance on him for a number of days and. Moved on to the next story, so I suppose I don't really have a good excuse there,

• 1:08:33Speaker 03

  and that's something that I should get him to open up.

• 1:08:36Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't know if I told you last time we were together, there was a story of an insurance guy who had a couple prostitutes on his payroll, and this guy sells big insurance policies, something called premium financing. And one day, one of his competitors steals a, give or take a $5 million insurance policy away from him. And he finds out that he stole that $5 million insurance policy and coerced the client to go with him instead of the other guy. Anyways, this guy, step number one, someone's computer keeps going off. Can you lower the audio? Yeah. So, he sends first a private investigator to see patterns. For about a month, they measure his patterns. What restaurants he goes to, at what time, where he sits, what he orders, who's his waiter, who's his waitress.

• 1:09:17Patrick Bet-David?

  A month later, after doing the private investigation and seeing his patterns, he sends the girl. The girl goes, sits at the bar, she knows where he's gonna be, at what time, and right next to him, she gets emotional and she smiles at him, he starts talking and say, "What's going on? Is everything okay with you? I'm so sorry, I'm just really going through a really hard time." She starts crying, she opens up to him, she says, "I'm so embarrassed crying here." He follows her, goes upstairs to a room, boom, they have the recording, the footage. He sends the footage to the other agent, says, "Hey, this is what you did, you need to send that client back over to me." Do you go as far as that to measure patterns of an individual, to see what restaurants and places to go to, to be able to track it? Or, you know, is that one of the other 70%?

• 1:09:59Speaker 03

  That's an extreme example, but we have done things like that. There is something that we're working on right now, where we were tracking down corruption in DC, which you'll see in a month or so, which is a serious, serious story. We had to find a specific individual or a specific organization. You can't do a dating app thing. You gotta do it a different way. For, you might, you might pretend to, and, we don't do exactly what you just said, but you might create an alias. Let's say you're a headhunter, or you're hiring, whatever a person needs, someone needs something. Undercover work is about identifying what that need is and providing that thing to them so that you can get access to them. Undercover work is all about access.

• 1:10:43Speaker 03

  How do you get access to someone?

• 1:10:47Speaker 03

  The easiest way is a dating app because everyone needs love and affection and so forth and so on, where they believe the person they're meeting with could be a possible future partner. That's the easiest and most expedient way. But you make a really good point about Anthony Fauci and frankly, I don't have a good excuse and I usually don't do this on live television, but maybe I should send a team to get him to open up. It's a good idea. I don't think me saying this will stop him. That's the other thing, these people are so arrogant that people often say, "How do these people keep talking to you like this?" And the truth is because, I'm not a psychologist, but for lack of a better word, they're all narcissists.

• 1:11:26Patrick Bet-David?

  They think they're untouchable.

• 1:11:28Speaker 03

  That's right. And they don't even look at us. It's almost like they're confessing. They just don't even think. It's impossible for them to think they could be held accountable for what they're saying. And we have a whole bunch of what we call swipers, we call them the American swipers, and these are girls, some guys. I do this sometimes, you know, and I go on these lunch meetings, dinner meetings, and they just spill the beans. A lot of guys in the deep state, in Washington, that work for these organizations, the Pentagon, Department of Defense, and they're talking about they're resisting Donald Trump from the inside. "Don't tell anybody I'm doing this." And they'll always say it within the first 15 minutes. And some of them have security clearances.

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• 1:12:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, that's the part where when you're putting a team together, you, you have to measure their level of ambition to be cool. Right? To kind of say, let me tell you what I know, wink, wink, let's keep it between us. I'm cool. You know, goes back to Jonah Mendez, the chief disguise officer I had on the podcast. I interviewed him right in front of the White House. And I said, what's a good quality of being a CIA agent? I said, is it charming? Is it, is it great in sales? Is it being great persuader? Is it being this? Is it being that? He says, it's all of that. And then some. However, there's one quality we look for. What's that? If you just got the information

• 1:13:39Patrick Bet-David?

  that you know you're watching TV, you just saved the free world, you don't need to brag about it to anybody else. That's the quality of a good CIA agent. What a freaking perspective. So for me, if you're bringing guys in, like you almost have to size them up to see how much are you trying to be cool? Like, for example, Scott Besant gives me a lot of good vibes of a guy that could give a shit about being cool. Makes sense because this guy worked under who for 15 years, almost 14 years. First term was, I think, nine years under Soros. Then five years as his chief investment officer, if I'm not mistaken. Prior to him going up there, the average person didn't know who he was. They kind of knew, but they didn't know who he was. It was like, whoa. Who is this guy? Right?

• 1:14:22Patrick Bet-David?

  And then he goes in, but some of the guys that get in there, they're really, really ambitious with fame and fame tends to get a hold of you and corrupt you in ways because behind closed doors, you want to be sitting in a room saying, let me tell you what I know. That's very hard to find people like that on the inside. Very hard to, you know,

• 1:14:43Patrick Bet-David?

  have people around you that know information on what things you guys are working on and they want to brag to nobody. When I was running my insurance company, we would always have big announcements, like first time I had Kobe Bryant as a keynote speaker, the late Kobe Bryant, I didn't tell anybody. At that event, I announced him and George Bush as keynote speakers. Until the very end, only two people know that those two were the keynote speakers. I didn't tell anybody. And when we announced, my own wife didn't know, nobody knew. When we announced, everyone's like, what? Yes. But I could only tell two people.

• 1:15:14Speaker 03

  You didn't tell your wife?

• 1:15:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Nobody knew, because it's exciting news. It's not even like, for some people, like, they wanna say it. They can't control the excitement. Oh, my God, I can't wait to meet him. Oh, my God, I can't wait that he's coming down, right? So for some, it's from purely from an innocent excitement standpoint. For some, it's about, let me tell you what I know. Don't tell anybody, right? Dude, that filtering process of getting people like that on your team.

• 1:15:38Speaker 03

  That's almost impossible.

• 1:15:39Patrick Bet-David?

  That's almost impossible.

• 1:15:40Speaker 03

  But that is, that is the, uh, that is the mission of how to surround yourself with good people.

• 1:15:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, that's a tough thing to do. The only way you can do that is if you've never, never had a run rate with them, to accelerate the testing. Cause your, your, your character has to be tested. It takes about a couple of years.

• 1:15:56Speaker 03

  How do you do that? I'm just curious your thoughts on how do you do that?

• 1:15:59Patrick Bet-David?

  You, you test them. It takes a couple of years. You, you test them with level three information and see if that gets leaked. It's easy. Go ahead and leak that. It's, I don't want you to leak it, but if you do, I now know who you are.

• 1:16:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:16:09Patrick Bet-David?

  And then once I do that, I know I can never have you on level two type of meetings. I can only have you on level four type of meetings. I can't invite you to level two type of meetings, cause you leak information. To, that, that's the part where a little bit here, oh, you can't know. Little bit there, oh, you cannot. Like, you have kids. You know how you're like, let me test to see if this guy can handle some bad news at this age. You give it to him, he panics and has anxiety. Like, I can't give you bad news. But you give this other guy some bad news about what's going on with family, he can handle it. Like, this guy's a gamer. He's not there yet. Cause this guy gets distracted. This guy with bad news, he knows how to keep it to himself, stay strong. Okay, good. I can handle talking high level conversation with this level of my kid, but not this one.

• 1:16:46Speaker 03

  Like a controlled leak, almost.

• 1:16:48Patrick Bet-David?

  It's a controlled leak to test what the individuals know. This is a very difficult thing to do, and I bet at a job with Donald Trump, when you're at that level, uh, all you can do is, James, what do you think about John? James, what do you think about Cash? Let's say you don't have a relationship with him. Let's say you don't have a relationship with some of these guys. What do you think about him? I think he's good. And then you're hoping the person I'm asking is a tier one person that can filter out a person that's a tier four. Do I make this person a tier two? I don't know if this is making sense. Like, you have to almost like...

• 1:17:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Lean on somebody else you trust to filter them out. So the reason why I'm going here is to see, you know, how for somebody to get to the level of the president, where you saw the first term, how many people he hired that turned on him, flipped on him. What did his methodology for phase two in 2024 change? How do you think about the team and the people that he's put together?

• 1:17:44Speaker 03

  I think they're a good team. I think they're loyal. That's why I, in full disclosure, I hiked with Bobby Kennedy in the Santa Monica Mountains, and I found him to be a brave man. And when I say brave, I mean, there is no incentive for him to do what he has done. He's a Kennedy. So I, I agree with Tucker that Bobby Kennedy is probably one of the bravest people to have done what he has done. But I think going back to your point about incentives, in my case, and I speak from personal experience, let me, let me give you a thought experiment. Yeah, I've been arrested by the FBI, I've been raided by the FBI, I've been sued 50 times, I've been through all these things, haven't been shot yet. And Trump, what Trump has gone through is at the highest level.

• 1:18:29Speaker 03

  And I find that there is an incentive to betray people like Trump. Look at all the goodies you get if you go to the New York Times, and there's an incentive there. And I, I find that when you are pinched by the FBI, which I have been, and by the way, totally falsely accused, that doesn't matter if you did it or not, you're an innocent man, forget that. But they did this to Michael Flynn's son, or something to the effect of, you better sign this form saying that your boss committed a crime, or you won't see your family for 10 years. How many people would take that deal? In other words, how many people would do the right thing, even if they suffered?

• 1:19:14Speaker 03

  Now, that's a really terrifying, and you hesitate to answer that question, because this is where things get really deep. Because when you're going after the most powerful people in the world, which we are doing, which Trump is doing. You have to find people, not Pat, who just won't leak information. But if the FBI were to point a gun at you and said, "You better sign a form saying that James embezzled money," they'd say, "I will not do that, because I fear God, not man." Or whatever, if you're a Christian, you say that. If you're something else, you say something similar. "I fear God, not man. I will not bear false witness, because it's the wrong thing to do." "Well, then, you're not going to see your family for 10 years."

• 1:19:59Speaker 03

  Okay. You have to find people like that. That's hard. It's hard to find those people. I go back to my original point. The instinct for self-preservation is an extremely important human behavior. And if you're going to do what Donald Trump is doing, or to a certain extent what Project Veritas was doing, going after Anthony Fauci and these types of people, Pfizer and BlackRock and the FBI, you have to find people who are completely unbreakable. And that's just what we're talking about. How do you find that? Very difficult thing to do. And Donald Trump, I'll say one quick story about Donald Trump. I was with him a year ago in his apartment in New York City. And this was like right around the week he

• 1:20:43Speaker 03

  was getting indicted for some stupid stuff with the porn star. And he was signing a hat to my father. And I had done a story on the CIA, exposed a CIA guy on tape who was on one of these dating apps, giving away information. "I'm resisting Donald Trump. I'm not giving information to the president." And Trump wanted to make a video with me about reacting to this. And I said, "How do you deal with it?" I said, "I'm serious." And he goes, he's signing this hat to my dad, and he goes, "I just don't care. I just don't care." I was like, "You don't care?" He's like, "I don't care." Maybe he doesn't care, but he has been able to develop a way, perhaps, where he just got thick skin, you know? But it's tough.

• 1:21:28Speaker 03

  It's really tough to to face these attacks. And I can be strong, right? I cannot bear false witness, right? I can say, I will not talk to you. Screw you. But my people around me have to be really, really strong.

• 1:21:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, it's not everybody's job. You know, it's not, it's not everybody's job. And when you go up to that position, you have to also know that your own family is not going to understand the job. Your even, your voters are not going to stand to understand the job. There's some decisions you have to make that's going to make 80% of people unhappy. And then you're going to be also in positions where your character is going to be tested. You're hoping that part you don't fall for. Okay, but sometimes you wonder when these guys get in, another reason why they, you know, flip or change or any of that. Who's more valuable to a US government? Somebody that I have information on that I can control when I give them the job?

• 1:22:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Or somebody I don't have information on? I don't know if you understand the question, what I'm saying.

• 1:22:29Speaker 03

  Said that again, so I understand.

• 1:22:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Who is more controllable? Somebody I hire that I have information on them? Some intel on them that's maybe sensitive, that they wouldn't want to be public?

• 1:22:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:22:43Patrick Bet-David?

  Am I better off hiring somebody that I have something like that? Or am I better off offering job to somebody that have no intel on them?

• 1:22:50Speaker 03

  That's an interesting question.

• 1:22:51Patrick Bet-David?

  And it depends on your style of leadership.

• 1:22:53Speaker 03

  Interesting. And whether you have something on, I mean, people, everyone has skeletons in their closet, correct? Maybe something we've done that we're not proud of. Would you agree with that statement? Maybe not illegal, although maybe you stole something when you were a teenager. But isn't it true that we all, every single one of us has something that we're not?

• 1:23:10Patrick Bet-David?

  No one walks on water. Everyone sins in a different way.

• 1:23:12Speaker 03

  And I mean, I'm myself included. These board members of my company were trying to leak like intimate messages between me and my girlfriend, which made them look bad because everyone has an intimate life, consensual life in your bad bedroom. But I, I think your point is interesting. What I would say in response to that is that. The, yeah, the motivation, the incentive for people not to have those skeletons leaked is extremely high. People will do anything to avoid being publicly shamed. And this is where this blackmail and this extortion thing comes in. My philosophy, you wanna know what I say? I say, "Go ahead, make my day. Leak it. I don't care. I don't give a shit. Publish everything." And they did.

• 1:23:57Speaker 03

  Evidently, they don't have much on me. Because the FBI went through every message in my phone for five years. And all they could get was some kinky messages between me and my girlfriend. But I do think that the, what is your answer? Which of those do you think is an employer you'd focus on between those two?

• 1:24:14Patrick Bet-David?

  No, to me, it depends what type of a leader you are.

• 1:24:17Speaker 03

  Depends on what type of leader you are?

• 1:24:19Patrick Bet-David?

  It depends on what type of a leader you are. Because I've watched how some of our guys led their guys. And some of my competitors led them. I was in a previous company and I watched how one guy led one of his guys. Who he held him hostage because every month that guy under the table was giving him cash for loans and stuff like that, mortgages. And then all of a sudden, the day it stopped, that guy lost all his licenses. So he liked having information on his guys to hold them hostage. But deep down inside, that relationship is a dark relationship. And you don't have the loyalty. It's kinda like, imagine, you know, Anna Nicole Smith marries that billionaire, whoever the guy was.

• 1:25:02Speaker 03

  Ninety-seven years old.

• 1:25:04Patrick Bet-David?

  And he was ninety, eighty-eight years old, whatever his age was, right? She marries this guy, old as hell. And you think all the money in the world is gonna win her love over? No, you just win her sex over. You don't win her love over, right? Whoever this Jay Howard Marshall was, that she ends up with this guy and next thing you know, he dies, she's wealthy, and then she dies from overdose, right? You can, you know, win someone's sex over, their body over. Love? You can't win love with money. That takes a lot of work to get someone's love, right? So I think the part with Trump which made him one of a kind...

• 1:25:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Is, do you realize, we now know about Stormy Daniels, Karen McDougal, grab him by this? We know all of that stuff. And you know what people say? No one gives a shit.

• 1:25:57Speaker 03

  No one cares.

• 1:25:58Patrick Bet-David?

  No one gives a shit. Which, by the way, if you remember, the moment Herman Cain, 13 years ago, whatever the timeline was, he's in the bus, he's not coming out, because apparently him and his wife were fighting in the bus, and they found out while he was the CEO of this pizza company, he had a lover, or he had a, what do you call it, a mistress, or something like that. Because of that, he stepped out. While Trump would come out and say, "Listen, it's my personal life, it's between me and my wife, we're moving on. What do you want to ask me?" So, Trump was the guy that, because he was so trained in New York, to go up against these gangsters and tough guys and manipulators and media, he has been trained to get to this position. That's not everybody's job.

• 1:26:41Patrick Bet-David?

  So I think for him, he got so much moral authority today, that if you cross him, the world is gonna defend him, not you. Not the world, I'm not talking mainstream media, but the people that are his supporters. So I don't know if he needs it today. I don't know if he needs, I think an average, regular president that got up there, the traditional, "Go be a lawyer, and go be a congress, and senate, and bullshit, bullshit", yeah, that person needs a lot of that. I think from Trump's standpoint, Trump is like, "Look, if you're in, you're in, if you're not, let's go. If you're gonna roll, you roll, but I don't give a shit about what mistakes you made. I mean, I know what I've done. And I'm like, "Let's go."

• 1:27:22Speaker 03

  I think my concern as an employer would be, I don't know if this falls into your dichotomy, but, okay, you have information on people. Will the enemy, will the person allow the enemy to use that information as leverage? And I'm the type of person where they may have something on me, I don't care, publish it. But do my employees, are they able to be strong enough? Or will the enemy come and say, "We have this information upon you, now betray your mission."

• 1:27:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, by the way, you know what that is?

• 1:27:51Speaker 03

  What?

• 1:27:51Patrick Bet-David?

  That's a pure test to find out who was loyal and who wasn't. It's an awesome situation. It's a tier-one test.

• 1:27:57Speaker 03

  Tier-one.

• 1:27:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Because that's a real test. That's a real test. Then you're like, "Oh." So it wasn't, it was because it's, you know, you're just benefiting from what you were getting. I got it, cool, it's good to know now. I got it, no problem, you know, we're good to go. You know, that, these moments where you're tempted to steal money, where you're tempted to do certain things, where you're tempted to go through, you know what things, we're investigating somebody right now, it's been going on for a few months. The stuff I found out yesterday of one of these guys that we've been investigating has done.

• 1:28:27Speaker 03

  You're investigating in your-

• 1:28:29Patrick Bet-David?

  A former person that used to work with us, yeah. Do you know what things we found, and, but by the way, you have to hear what he used to say. All the lines. James, you're like a father figure to me. Crying, while behind closed doors. Taking money and taking all this stuff. You, but these are beautiful situations, because you know what happens when the investigation's over with? We're gonna publicly report it to everybody here, to our employees. You know why? It's the same thing we did in the insurance company. If anybody at all sold insurance doing forgery, we told everybody.

• 1:29:02Patrick Bet-David?

  We told everybody and said, that guy's insurance license is lost for 10 years, he can never do insurance again. Go ahead and test it out, see what happens to you. If somebody went out there, did any kind of stuff that was bad, we publicized it so people wouldn't do it again.

• 1:29:14Speaker 03

  Accountability.

• 1:29:15Patrick Bet-David?

  It's a form of accountability and it's a form of awareness. It's like, you know, you ever seen the, the mom or the dad is trying to feed the kid and the kid is not eating and he puts it in the dog, the doll's mouth, and then goes to the kid, goes this way, goes this way, and this guy's then bam, hits the face of a little doll, and then goes with the-

• 1:29:31Speaker 03

  Oh, you know the medicine.

• 1:29:32Patrick Bet-David?

  With the foot in the mouth?

• 1:29:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:33Patrick Bet-David?

  It's a form of, don't make this effin' mistake, right?

• 1:29:39Speaker 03

  Which is what our FBI is not doing.

• 1:29:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Which is what our FBI is not doing, yeah, so that's the part where some people are not happy with us not seeing the accountability that we were promised.

• 1:29:49Speaker 03

  Correct, I would say people are enraged about this.

• 1:29:51Patrick Bet-David?

  I would say they are. I would say the part that they're, that they're, uh, what's the word? Battling with is, look, there's so many great things that happened, but I really wanted to know what's going on over here. So do I compromise these two things that I really wanted to know? Because what are you doing to these kids and innocent kids? These are someone's daughter. They're someone's granddaughter. They're someone's sister. Are we not gonna find this out? Are we just gonna go hush hush to this side? I, I, to this group that voted specifically to find out what's going on with Epstein and the kids, they're not the type that gonna forget about it.

• 1:30:26Speaker 03

  Nope.

• 1:30:27Patrick Bet-David?

  They're, they're the type that's gonna keep bringing it up until you either reveal or you have to deal with it.

• 1:30:32Speaker 03

  We're gonna keep, we're five years in, people are still enraged.

• 1:30:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I don't think that's gonna change.

• 1:30:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Any, any other items right now that is going on where for you politically, with what's going on with White House right now, or politically for you, you're a little bit confused with?

• 1:30:49Speaker 03

  Well, um, with, with the, tell me what you mean by that, the White House.

• 1:30:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Just some of the decisions, you know, there's a lot of good, there's a lot of victories right now. You're seeing a lot of victories, you're seeing the big, big beautiful bill, you're seeing, you know, Russia, Putin, Trump talking, you're seeing China, you're seeing tariffs.

• 1:31:05Speaker 03

  Before we move on from, from the Epstein thing real quick, if we could go to this, this is present day, this is the John Daly, uh, uh, clip with Prince Andrew, the guy on undercover camera, didn't you cover this on your show?

• 1:31:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, we did.

• 1:31:18Speaker 03

  Oh, you did, oh, you guys covered this.

• 1:31:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, we did.

• 1:31:20Speaker 03

  This is the, uh,

• 1:31:22Speaker 05

  Him basically saying he was, he didn't like the fact that Prince Andrew, the brother of the late, I mean, of not the late, of, of the king, was having sex with underage girls and he didn't like it.

• 1:31:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is, this is someone who's quite, you know, loyal and a confidant to Prince Andrew. I got a lot of heat for this too, because people say this doesn't, this doesn't prove anything. And I, I think one of the challenges here is that you're confirming suspicions, you're, you're getting them on video admitting it. He's having sex with underage girls. And then, and then this guy goes on Piers Morgan, I don't know if you're, I just think it's hilarious. If your producer could find that clip. But, and then he says, I think O'Keefe's great. This girl that he said, man, she was beautiful.

• 1:32:05Speaker 05

  No shame.

• 1:32:06Speaker 03

  And what did you think about what he said? I, I regret saying it, I regret.

• 1:32:11Speaker 03

  He admits, he admits that he was giving you credit for the girl. And credit to Piers Morgan for grilling him. Big time. Grilling him. I was actually shocked that, that, uh, it might be hard to find this clip, but Piers Morgan was just grilling him. So that's, that's, um, I've, I've been, I've been, I'm honest to Pat, I've been so heads down in my reporting, I mean, heads down on, on this Epstein reporting. I have not, you know, I have not been as, followed the news right now in the world last week.

• 1:32:45Patrick Bet-David?

  So let me ask, make the second request. So my first request was Fauci. My second request is,

• 1:32:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Diddy, have you at all thought about doing anything with Diddy? Or you guys haven't focused on that one?

• 1:32:57Speaker 03

  I think these are great ideas. No, no, I think, I think there's, there's, I, I, I am and I should and I will. And I did get some sources with Diddy a year or two ago, but I think your idea, let me ask you a, a better question. What is the thing that needs to be exposed? What, if exposed, would change things? That's helpful to me.

• 1:33:18Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. I mean, if you think about, okay, so if you want to be part of something legendary, I'm talking legendary, is in the seventies, sixties, fifties, forties, thirties, J. Edgar Hoover, all these guys, when the FBI first started with him, there is no such thing as a, you know, Italian, the, the crime family. That doesn't exist, right? Organized crime family doesn't exist. All right. Now they know he had, they had intel on him with the cross stressing stuff. But in the eighties, Giuliani was able to bring down the mob with the help of the Rico law by this professor from Rutgers, that all of a sudden we saw a couple hundred mob bosses,

• 1:34:00Patrick Bet-David?

  under bosses, you know, consigliere handcuffed, walking, not getting arrested. That was un-frickin' believable.

• 1:34:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:34:09Patrick Bet-David?

  It was something that everybody around the world heard about, the news. Okay?

• 1:34:15Speaker 03

  Them being perp walked.

• 1:34:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Of course. If you, James, if you want something that is revolutionary, a breakthrough, revolutionary breakthrough.

• 1:34:28Patrick Bet-David?

  It's Diddy because he's alive. The people are alive.

• 1:34:31Speaker 03

  I see.

• 1:34:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Epstein, you know, Epstein is, is, yeah. But if you get something from Leon Black, Rob, is Leon Black still alive?

• 1:34:40Speaker 03

  I believe so.

• 1:34:41Patrick Bet-David?

  You go get something from Leon Black, which I don't know if you pursued or not.

• 1:34:44Speaker 03

  Yes, 73 years old.

• 1:34:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, Leon Black is the one that apparently paid Epstein 150 million dollars in consulting fees.

• 1:34:50Speaker 03

  This man's still alive.

• 1:34:51Patrick Bet-David?

  For tax purposes. Rob, can you, can you type in tax purposes or tax Epstein? Just type tax Epstein. So right there, Leon Black gave 170 million dollars to Epstein for, uh, uh, uh, click on it, Rob, so we can read the story. So Leon Black, according to US Center Finance, he transfers 170 million dollars to Epstein's accounts. And when they asked him why you did that, he said he paid the accused sex trafficker for tax advice. This is the most expensive tax advice anyone's ever given in the history of mankind. Leon Black, the billionaire financier and former CEO of Apollo Global Management, transferred 170 million dollars to the Epstein covers for the course of five years.

• 1:35:34Patrick Bet-David?

  US Senator Ron Wyden said in a letter that US Justice and Treasury Department this week, not 158 million dollars as previously reported. An investigation commissioned by Apollo's board appeared to have missed 12 million dollars in transfer, which were discovered by investigators working with the US. So Leon Black, some of these guys are around, okay? Some of them are around on what Epstein did. But with Diddy, you're talking about Epstein, you're talking about Diddy, Hollywood, sports. You, you're talking about, you know,

• 1:36:04Speaker 03

  Producers.

• 1:36:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Talent agencies, producers, countries. I mean, Diddy's is, and it's going on right now. So if you did something while the hearing is going on, it's like you finding out something while OJ Simpson's thing's going on.

• 1:36:20Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:36:21Patrick Bet-David?

  And you leaked, leaked something during the entire investigation. It's like you doing something and you drop it during Johnny Depp and Amber Heard.

• 1:36:29Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:36:29Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, but Diddy to me is the comparable of an OJ Simpson thing.

• 1:36:32Speaker 03

  And what do you think the thing, if caught on video, that would change things? I can't, I mean, I'd love to see people perp walk, I don't have the power to arrest, but what is the thing that needs to be on video in your mind?

• 1:36:44Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, it's very easy for me.

• 1:36:45Speaker 03

  Tell me.

• 1:36:47Patrick Bet-David?

  It's very easy. It's gay sex with, you know, men that, you know, play straight.

• 1:36:56Patrick Bet-David?

  And that is released?

• 1:36:58Speaker 03

  In other words, these men have internal conflicts and they're blackmailed over this and...

• 1:37:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, and I think those video footages, believe it or not, I believe exist in different people's phones because I think these guys are so... Diddy thought he was so untouchable that no one was ever gonna lose and they would airdrop a video to each other.

• 1:37:18Speaker 03

  Like iPhone, iOS, just in the photos.

• 1:37:20Patrick Bet-David?

  I am willing to bet that in some kind of a folder, it's sitting there with these footages, you know, that people save, that's got a specific code, that the video's all the way in and say, "Watch what I have, what we did here and here and there."

• 1:37:32Speaker 03

  I think that too, and also the so-called blackmail, how do you think it actually works? Like, what is the conversation like? In your mind, in your imagination? I'm just curious, you guys, because that helps me as an investigative, understand what I'm trying to catch.

• 1:37:49Patrick Bet-David?

  How do I think Diddy's model works?

• 1:37:50Speaker 03

  Correct. What's your hypothesis?

• 1:37:54Patrick Bet-David?

  I mean, it's very simple. You come to the house, you party, you have one of the girls that locks on to one of the guys, who's one of your workers, they go upstairs, there's seventeen cameras in there, he says, "Hey man, can I get a room?" "Yeah, bro, just go use my room." Goes to the room, leaves. She's seventeen, she's fifteen. Or there's a guy in there, and I record it, I have it, and the next day I say, "Hey, I just wanted to let you know, here's what I got."

• 1:38:28Patrick Bet-David?

  It's very simple. Moving forward, anything I ask from you, I need you to do.

• 1:38:32Speaker 03

  That's the thing that needs to be on video. What you just said, that would change everything. In my opinion.

• 1:38:40Patrick Bet-David?

  I think that would be in text, not in video.

• 1:38:43Speaker 03

  In a text message?

• 1:38:44Patrick Bet-David?

  I think it would be in text messages. But I think that video... Well, he's dumb enough to say it. He's dumb enough to say stuff like that. He's capable of saying stuff like that.

• 1:38:55Speaker 03

  Well, you might have hearsay, in other words, and this is what happened with Prince Andrew, another guy close to him said that this is what happened.

• 1:39:03Speaker 03

  Which is still powerful.

• 1:39:04Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, those guys are out there, the gene deals, the security, those guys have come out, they've done their part. There's a lot of people that have said stuff like that, like Suge Knight talking about his link to Clive Davis and all this other stuff. That stuff is coming out. But if you can get him...

• 1:39:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Tied to a few other people, I think this will be the biggest story you'll break.

• 1:39:27Speaker 03

  Oh, I am working on this and I will work on this.

• 1:39:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, especially with some of the stuff that was dropped this week. Some of the ecstasy pills and.

• 1:39:34Speaker 05

  With Obama's face on them.

• 1:39:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Some, some, this, some very, very weird stuff going on here, James.

• 1:39:40Speaker 05

  Oh, and there's a, I mean, just, just with Obama and, ah, yeah, Obama, because he was hung out with them a lot. He was at the Rock the Vote thing at his house, hanging out, partying. And then you have videos of like Christie Teigen with John Legend. And, and they asked Christie Teigen, where's the craziest place you've had sex in public? And she goes, um, there was that Obama thing and John Legend's face looks like he saw a ghost. He looks like he saw a freaking ghost. Did you see that, Pat?

• 1:40:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, of course, of course.

• 1:40:07Speaker 05

  Robbie, I sent it to you in the Slack, but, um.

• 1:40:09Patrick Bet-David?

  I, I just think, you know, the, the, the part with what world we're living in today. We're living in a world today where we, we, we're not sure the US government is gonna, is gonna drop these stories. Because these are stories you can use to get intel.

• 1:40:28Speaker 03

  I mean, this is, I, I, I commit to you that I will do this. And I usually do get the stories. Sometimes it takes me a little longer than I'd like, but this is also very dangerous. Wouldn't you admit to do these stories?

• 1:40:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, you, you subscribe to this lifestyle.

• 1:40:41Speaker 03

  I, I certainly did. I remember you said, about a year ago, you said, James O'Keefe has chosen a tough life. And it was a very, I think it was a more profound statement than even you intended. Not tough in the way that most people, usually they use the courts against me, legal lawyers, that's a whole other conversation. But this is very dangerous and, um, the people that have come before me, like the, uh, what's the movie? To Kill, To Kill a Messenger with, um, about a reporter in California. He reported on the CIA and the drugs, drugs and the CIA and they were given. And he committed suicide. I think he shot himself in the head twice, by the way.

• 1:41:18Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 1:41:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, this, this guy, it was based upon, um, Gary Webb, To Kill a Messenger. And there's, this, these are the reporters that came before me. Gary Webb managed to shoot himself in the head twice.

• 1:41:33Speaker 03

  That's a really impressive thing to do.

• 1:41:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Holy moly.

• 1:41:35Speaker 03

  You'd think the gun would fall out of your hand the first time.

• 1:41:38Patrick Bet-David?

  You would think.

• 1:41:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, he did some stories on, on, uh, on the CIA. It was a great movie. And Gary Webb has a remarkable quote, an incredible quote, that I would like to read on the air in front of all of you. And it's from this book that was written called To Kill a Messenger. And I'm gonna paraphrase because I can't pull it up, but it's, um, Gary Webb says, um, you know, I was winning, I'm gonna paraphrase, I was winning awards, I was getting accolades, I was giving speeches, I won the Pulitzer Prize. And then I broke some stories, he's talking about the one about the CIA, that made me realize how misplaced my bliss had been.

• 1:42:22Speaker 03

  I, I, I started messing with, with the wrong people. And, and I, and I, and I began to realize I had missed, my, I misplaced my value in what I actually valued. And I'm butchering the quote, but it's a profound quote, and then he committed suicide. So my point to you is that this is very dangerous, man.

• 1:42:40Patrick Bet-David?

  No, the job you've chosen, it's tough because if you, you, you, okay. Here's the next part. If you have a lot of friends in high places, James, you're not doing your job right.

• 1:42:54Speaker 03

  That's correct. But you need, you know what everyone says in the conservative movement? Do you know Cash? Do you know Pam? Do you know this guy? It's all about rubbing elbows and people doing favors. I don't do that for a living.

• 1:43:07Patrick Bet-David?

  No, that's, that's not, uh, that's not the, the, the profile of this job.

• 1:43:12Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:43:13Patrick Bet-David?

  The profile of this job is exactly what you're doing, and it's not for everybody. It's just not for everybody because you're not a popular, cool person. For you to keep the T word for as long as possible, you can't have a lot of friends. And you know what the T word is?

• 1:43:31Speaker 03

  The trust.

• 1:43:32Patrick Bet-David?

  Trust? Yeah, to keep trust, you can't have a lot of friends. At high places. At high places.

• 1:43:39Speaker 03

  That's right. It's a tough thing as a journalist to navigate the relationship between what I call autonomy and access. There's a tension in journalism because on one hand you have to protect your sources. And on the other hand, you have to investigate. And it's very difficult. That's a very, it's an art form.

• 1:43:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:57Speaker 03

  It's an ethical line. At what point do I, I'm gonna burn this? In business, you call it burning bridges. In journalism, you burn bridges every day. You, you report on powerful people, so it's very tough.

• 1:44:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, Jake Tapper, look at what happened with Jake Tapper, right? Like with all the stuff that he's going through right now. Okay, why is he losing respect from other journalists?

• 1:44:17Speaker 03

  Because we all knew what he's now reporting. Like, he's acting like it's news.

• 1:44:21Patrick Bet-David?

  So he's acting like it's news. James, question, before we finish it up here, because we got a few minutes here left. So, in your opinion, you spent a lot of time with Breitbart. What happened to him?

• 1:44:33Speaker 03

  You mean like, how did he die?

• 1:44:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, what happened to him? The timing of it is very strange.

• 1:44:39Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't have any inside information. I know, I know his wife would always say to me, "Don't tell people that he was killed." Andrew had a heart condition. He had an enlarged heart, I believe. And the doctor said, "You gotta, you know, you gotta stop, you know, you know, eating all this steak and drinking all this wine. You have to stop traveling." And I think he just truly pushed himself. That's my belief. I don't have, I would share with the audience if I had any evidence of foul play. All I have is circumstantial evidence. I have no direct evidence. He dropped dead of a heart attack at 43. This was March 1st, 2012. I was 27. He was my mentor. Did you ever meet him?

• 1:45:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Never.

• 1:45:17Speaker 03

  Andrew was a remarkable man. He edited the Drudge Report at the time. He would tweet like a thousand times a day. He was filled with righteous indignation. This is a different world 12 years ago. The media was different. You could like engage with legacy media. You could tweet back and forth. You could have conversations. And he was a mentor of mine. We were very different people. He was more of an extrovert. I was at the time much more introverted. But he had a way about him. He was a warrior. And that's what we shared in common. I think what I would characterize myself, I'm a journalist, I'm also a warrior. I'm at war, all the time, constantly. And he was too. But it aged him.

• 1:46:00Speaker 03

  Like, I'm now 40 years old. He died at 43. And in the last few years of his life, he just seemed to age. And he took things personally. And he was angry and furious and righteous and indignant and tweeting every tweet at the reporter and holding them accountable. It was, I've never met anyone like him. I still haven't met anyone like him. But I don't, unfortunately, I don't have any, you know, information about his death other than I know he had a heart condition. That's all I can say.

• 1:46:32Speaker 05

  And it was kind of, I mean, and God rest his soul, because I was a huge fan, and James, that's how I found out about you. It was just weird that he was onstage claiming that he had tapes on Obama. He would call him a radical. I remember another time, the camera in his face, some reporters holding, he's yelling at the guy's recorder, and he's saying, "We're coming after you, John Podesta. We're coming after you, Big Soros."

• 1:46:54Speaker 03

  There's this moment, there's this moment where Andrew Breitbart is talking to Dave Weigl. I know this well. And this is really, this is a perfect, perfect story. And the reporter's got his little pencil and paper. I don't know if they do that anymore. Writing down, and Andrew goes, and Andrew is talking to the reporter, and he screams into the reporter notebook, "Fuck you, John Podesta." Like, he's talking, only Andrew Breitbart, he's talking to the reporter notebook, not to the guy, but to the masses the reporter's writing to. That is a quintessential Andrew Breitbart moment. And I understand him, because I'm, I am similar in that particular way.

• 1:47:36Speaker 03

  He was righteously indignant, taking on this mainstream media.

• 1:47:40Speaker 05

  That's it, Rob.

• 1:47:40Speaker 03

  Watch this. Watch this.

• 1:47:46Speaker 06

  You, John Podesta.

• 1:47:48Speaker 05

  Watch, watch, Big Soros, look.

• 1:47:51Speaker 03

  Watch this, watch this.

• 1:47:52Speaker 06

  Yeah. When I, when I talk, that's because I'm interested in this ongoing, whatever the hell they're doing. What's in your closet, John Podesta?

• 1:47:59Speaker 03

  He's talking to the reporter notebook.

• 1:48:00Speaker 06

  Big Podesta, Big Soros, do you want us to play these games? Because we're playing to win.

• 1:48:08Speaker 03

  This is Andrew Breitbart.

• 1:48:09Speaker 05

  Dude, and then, and then think about it, uh, James, he has this attitude, I love the righteous indignation. I read the book, the guys, like you said, he was going 100 miles an hour because he's just, he has the same, you guys weren't the same, James, but you, the, the message and, and getting the truth out there.

• 1:48:23Speaker 03

  No, we spoke, I mean, Andrew, uh, we, him and I, this man you just saw, him and I spoke 10 times a day. I mean, he was constantly talking to me and, and then he died and I was alone. I, I found the quote, I need to read this on the air, please. Quote, this is the, the CIA, the investigative reporter who exposed drug trafficking with the CIA and getting drugs in America. Gary Webb, "I was winning awards, getting raises, lecturing college classes, appearing on TV shows and judging journalism contests. I won the Pulitzer Prize. And then I wrote some stories that made me realize how sadly misplaced my bliss had been. The reason I'd enjoyed such smooth sailing in my career for so long hadn't been, as I'd assumed, because I was careful and diligent and good at my job.

• 1:49:06Speaker 03

  The truth was that in all those years, I hadn't written anything important enough to suppress."

• 1:49:13Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 1:49:15Speaker 03

  Gary Webb, to kill a messenger, shot himself in the head twice. Everything, everyone that has come before me and who, extreme truth tellers have been like, you think of even historically, like on a much larger scale, they've been assassinated, or JFK.

• 1:49:31Patrick Bet-David?

  That's why, that's why the Breitbart story is different. If you, and I understand your respect for the wife and, and I'm sure she's sick and tired of hearing all this stuff because she just wants to move on. So you can take that position, but Rob, if you can pull that thing up, it's a little weird when you read about it and you see stuff about, um...

• 1:49:48Patrick Bet-David?

  You know.

• 1:49:48Speaker 03

  Let me see this.

• 1:49:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, so this is the coroner, right, Pat?

• 1:49:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, so you got Michael Cormier, a forensic technician with LA County Office, died on April 20th, 2012, the same day Breitbart autopsy results were released. Cormier was complaint, uh, had complained of severe stomach pain and vomiting before being hospitalized, where he later died. Initial reports indicate that arsenic poisoning was a possible cause of death, and LA Department did not immediately rule out foul play.

• 1:50:13Speaker 05

  What are the odds?

• 1:50:14Patrick Bet-David?

  A little weird.

• 1:50:14Speaker 05

  Like, what are the odds that the day that-

• 1:50:16Speaker 03

  That's a little suspicious.

• 1:50:17Patrick Bet-David?

  That a little suspicious. And the proximity of Cormier's death to the release of Breitbart's autopsy report led to online speculation about a possible connection between the two deaths. Uh, however, officials clarified that Cormier was not involved in Breitbart's autopsy. Deputy Sheriff Corr, Ed Winters, said that Cormier had nothing to do with the autopsy or the investigation. As of now, no definitive public finding has been released regarding the cause of Cormier's death, and no official connection has been established between his death and that of Andrew Breitbart.

• 1:50:45Speaker 05

  Well, what, if you had to say the odds, Pat, what are the odds that, because some people were saying that he ran out, Andrew ran out, and turned a completely different color, as if he was choking on something, that when the autopsy of him comes out, a guy in that same, uh, LA coroner's office dies of arsenic poisoning? He didn't get hit by a car, he didn't fall off of a bridge, he's died, somebody poisoned him?

• 1:51:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, the problem, I mean, I, this is, Pat, this is extremely suspicious, and, um, God willing, the, if, if anyone has proof, I mean, if there's someone in the hospital, if there's someone with knowledge, I'd love to report. The problem is, is, I, I walk a fine line too, because if I come out and make a statement that I can't prove, then I lose credibility. So I have to be careful. But I hear what you're saying, this is incredibly suspicious.

• 1:51:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:51:29Speaker 03

  Um, and I, I don't, I don't even know what to say about it, except I hope that, it's 13 years later here, so.

• 1:51:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:51:36Speaker 03

  We're still talking about JFK, and who shot JFK?

• 1:51:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, but the, but the point, the, the point here is, the reason why I've never talked about Breitbart's, and how he, I've never, ever talked about it on any podcast.

• 1:51:49Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:51:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Ever. This is the first time. I don't know how many hundreds of interviews we've done, we've never brought it up. The only reason we bring it up is because, to me, he was a true believer. You're a true believer. And I think there's a handful of guys that are true believers, not mainstream. Because you can't be mainstream. You have to compromise to be mainstream.

• 1:52:05Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 1:52:06Patrick Bet-David?

  And, you know, for you to go work for any of the big platforms, pick any one of them, you would have to compromise. And I don't think you're gonna be doing that. So for guys like that, you need additional protection to be aware. You know, it's like the other day, uh, uh, Trump was in Saudi and they offer him a drink and he just keeps holding it like this. I don't know if you saw that. He's just keeping holding a drink like this. He's gonna hold a drink like that, hold a drink like this. So I think for a guy like you, as you're going through everything that you're doing with your circle, with your community, with people that maybe, you know, uh, yeah, is this the one? Look at this one here. It's classic. It's like, oh, what am I gonna do with this? So MBS drank it, but he's not drinking it. He's just hanging on to it. It's like, oh, it's great. It's awesome.

• 1:52:49Speaker 03

  He just looks down at it.

• 1:52:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, just give him the respect, but he's not gonna drink it.

• 1:52:52Speaker 03

  And, and, and one more reporter, Michael Hastings died in a fiery car crash. He reported on Stanley McChrystal. So I'm well aware of the dangers, but, you know, I, I mean, what do you really wanna know? Am I afraid to die? Um, not really. I've lived a good life. I believe in what I'm doing. And I, I'm also a spiritual person. I, I believe in God. I, you know, there's that saying, you know, no weapon formed against me shall prosper. It's in Isaiah. I genuinely believe, I, I wear it around my neck. Border Patrol agent gave to me. I rode the train of death in Mexico. I should've died, I didn't. You know, so I, I believe in what I'm doing and, and, um, maybe I'll be the one that got away. That's all I can say.

• 1:53:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Great. And Gank, uh, as you're watching this, do yourself a favor and go watch the podcast. We're gonna put the link below, right? Let's make sure we do that. Not the podcast, the documentary, the movie that just came out. Uh, uh, uh, The Truth Inside Veritas Part One. It's 54 minutes. It's gonna feel like five minutes to you, because that's exactly how I felt when I watched it. It went like this, boom, and I'm like, wow. Intense, the energy's gonna be high from the beginning to the very end. I really enjoyed watching it. James, great having you back on. Appreciate you for coming down.

• 1:53:57Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:53:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Anytime. Take care, everybody. Bye bye, bye bye.

• 1:54:00Speaker 03

  Hello, everyone. I'm James O'Keefe. Been doing this journalism thing for about 20 years. Truth, justice, exposing corruption, everything that comes along with it. If you wanna connect with me, talk to me about any of this, you can connect with me through Minect. You can see the QR code below. Look forward to hearing from you.

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