Pod Insights Conan O'Brien Needs A Friend The State Of The Entertainment Business With Jeff Ross About this episode Conan talks to executive producer Jeff Ross about the current landscape of the entertainment industry and why Conan could never pull off a daytime talk show.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:03 Conan O'Brien? One in four Americans targeted by scams ended up falling for them.
0:07 Speaker 01 I did.
0:07 Conan O'Brien? For me, it would be four out of four. Did you fall for a scam?
0:09 Speaker 01 I fell for a scam once.
0:10 Conan O'Brien? Oh my god.
0:11 Speaker 01 They didn't steal much.
0:12 Conan O'Brien? Yeah, still, you got taken for a ride.
0:15 Speaker 01 I did.
0:15 Conan O'Brien? And you just put it out there that you're easy to scam.
0:17 Speaker 01 I am!
0:18 Conan O'Brien? One accident, a little click, can expose your information, putting you at risk of identity theft.
0:22 Speaker 01 Mmm.
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0:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, I need this.
0:39 Conan O'Brien? Yeah, you do need it. You need it fast. Go to lifelock.com/conan. That's lifelock.com/conan to save 30%. Terms apply.
0:51 Conan O'Brien? Now, Sona, clearly, I'm a very important person to you.
0:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
0:54 Conan O'Brien? Just accept the premise and we'll move ahead.
0:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:57 Conan O'Brien? I'm a very important person to you. What would you get me from Macy's for the holidays?
1:02 Speaker 01 A vase.
1:04 Conan O'Brien? No, I don't want a vase. I want something better.
1:06 Speaker 01 A jacket.
1:08 Conan O'Brien? Yeah, nice jacket. I love a nice jacket.
1:09 Speaker 01 Oh yeah, that jacket. Nice jacket.
1:10 Conan O'Brien? Yeah, so now you have to do it, because you said you would.
1:12 Speaker 01 Aw, man! I didn't know you were doing that.
1:14 Conan O'Brien? Well, I know the holidays are months away, but it's never too early, Sona, to find gifts that I will love, gifts I will wear, and surprises that make the season unforgettable for me.
1:26 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:26 Conan O'Brien? Macy's Gift Guide makes holiday shopping easy with beauty favorites, stylish fashion, jewelry, cozy essentials, must-have toys, home upgrades, and picks for every person on your list. Coach handbags, Breville appliances, Lego UG, and more, all in one place, so you can skip the scrolling and shop with confidence. Shop now in-store or online at macy's.com/giftguide.
1:52 Speaker 02 Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan. Want to talk to Conan? Visit teamcoco.com/callconan. Okay, let's get started.
2:01 Conan O'Brien? Hey, it's our Thursday episode. Normally, we talk to fans in this spot. But today, we're going to try something a little different. I'm going to talk to someone who I've known for 32 years, and he's definitely not a fan. I'm talking about Jeff Ross, executive producer extraordinaire. He and I started out together on the old Late Night Show back in the day. And Jeff, you're the guy that understands the business of Hollywood. I don't. I'm kind of an outsider, an artist, because of a Michelangelo roaming the streets, painting his great masterpieces, head in the clouds. But you, you get the business. What's going on in Hollywood these days? I just want to know, Jeff Ross, what's going on in Hollywood? How's the business?
2:45 Speaker 03 Am I being sandbagged?
2:46 Conan O'Brien? No, you're not. No, this is not a sandbag. This is me questioning you. What's going on in the business? The business, Jeff. I hear that studios are...
2:55 Speaker 03 It's tough out there.
2:56 Conan O'Brien? It's tough out there. What's going on? I don't know what's happening.
2:59 Speaker 03 Well, I only hear what's happening because our world is pretty good.
3:03 Conan O'Brien? Our world is good.
3:03 Speaker 03 Our world is good.
3:04 Conan O'Brien? Are we thriving in the business?
3:06 Speaker 03 Yes.
3:06 Conan O'Brien? Okay, okay. I had no idea. I have no idea what we're doing.
3:10 Speaker 03 Thriving.
3:11 Conan O'Brien? But, but what a strange world. When we started out together back in 1993, we met in April of 1993. I was 29 when I met you. Now, I'm older than that. And...
3:24 Speaker 03 Not me.
3:25 Conan O'Brien? You've, you've somehow got 70 years older, and I have gotten even younger. But, but now, you know, we've got this podcast empire, and I'm having a lot of fun. It's all great. But if I had told you 32 years ago, we're not even going to be working in television anymore. We're going to be basically doing a radio show that goes over the computer. Uh.
3:51 Speaker 03 It's crazy.
3:51 Conan O'Brien? It's crazy.
3:52 Speaker 03 It's crazy.
3:53 Conan O'Brien? So that's your analysis, it's crazy.
3:54 Speaker 03 Well, it is crazy. I mean, we have our HBO show.
3:56 Conan O'Brien? Yeah, that's true. That's true. I didn't mean to discount HBO. HBO's, uh, and we, we have a lot of fun with that.
4:01 Speaker 03 Yes.
4:01 Conan O'Brien? Have a good time. But again, it's a very different, I'm gonna say this, I don't think anyone's ever said this before. It's a very different landscape now.
4:09 Speaker 03 It is.
4:09 Speaker 01 Oh, that's a good word.
4:10 Conan O'Brien? Yeah.
4:11 Speaker 03 You're talking about specifically late night or talk shows?
4:13 Conan O'Brien? Late night, well, you know, I think everyone's talking about late night and what's happening.
4:17 Speaker 03 Byron Allen's taking over.
4:18 Conan O'Brien? That's Byron Allen is taking over from, for Colbert Show, is that right?
4:21 Speaker 03 Well, he, yeah, it's interesting. He bought the time.
4:24 Conan O'Brien? Wait, what's that? What are you talking about?
4:25 Speaker 03 In other words, he, he went to CBS.
4:26 Conan O'Brien? Byron Allen went to?
4:27 Speaker 03 He went to CBS. He's buying the time, the time period.
4:30 Conan O'Brien? Okay.
4:31 Speaker 03 And he's producing his own show and selling the ads himself. I believe that's how it's working.
4:34 Conan O'Brien? I didn't know that. That's fascinating.
4:36 Speaker 01 We could just buy time on TV.
4:38 Speaker 03 So essentially, essentially, CBS is like in profit because they just sold the time to him.
4:44 Conan O'Brien? Well, wait a minute. So you're saying I could go back on NBC, they'd probably let me go on at like three in the morning if I bought the time?
4:52 Speaker 03 If that.
4:53 Conan O'Brien? What's that?
4:53 Speaker 03 If that. But yeah.
4:54 Conan O'Brien? Okay, four in the morning.
4:56 Speaker 03 All right, maybe.
4:56 Conan O'Brien? I could give the farm report.
4:58 Speaker 03 Actually, there's nobody there left, so you could, you could wind up with.
5:01 Conan O'Brien? Get back on NBC if, now, listen, this is where you come in because you understand the business, you understand what kind of money our business has. Can my production company, can we buy the four o'clock time slot on NBC 4 a.m.? And create our own show and sell all that sweet advertising money that'd be coming in at 4 a.m.?
5:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
5:20 Conan O'Brien? Is that a good business model?
5:21 Speaker 03 Do you want me to get in the weeds on this?
5:22 Conan O'Brien? Yes.
5:22 Speaker 03 Okay. I don't think NBC controls 4 a.m.
5:26 Conan O'Brien? Perfect, then we can just squat there.
5:28 Speaker 01 Squatters, right?
5:29 Conan O'Brien? Yeah, people that just, you know, when someone, an old hobo shows up in an apartment and just says, "I'm here now," and they can't get him out, why don't I squat?
5:37 Speaker 03 We did do that.
5:37 Conan O'Brien? Why don't I squat at four?
5:39 Speaker 03 We did do that.
5:40 Conan O'Brien? We did do that, yeah. We kinda did do that.
5:42 Speaker 03 For like 10 years at NBC.
5:44 Conan O'Brien? All right, listen, that's terrible. Um, we did fine for them. Uh, I'm just fascinated by this new world. I don't understand it.
5:51 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
5:51 Conan O'Brien? But now you can buy a time slot.
5:54 Speaker 03 Yeah, he did. It's like syndication. It's essentially syndication.
5:57 Conan O'Brien? Oh, I should go into syndication.
5:59 Speaker 03 It's a sense, it's just basically what he did.
6:00 Conan O'Brien? Okay, what about this? And I'm just spitballing ideas here, but this is a chance for people out there to hear our process. I think I'd be great in daytime. I think housewives would love me. I think I could buy a daytime slot. We could have a syndicated show called, and guess what? It's called Donin! And it's got an exclamation point and like a happy face.
6:22 Speaker 03 You don't remember. You don't remember that before we went to TBS, we took a meeting with these guys. A company that's called Deb Mar Mercury.
6:30 Conan O'Brien? Right.
6:31 Speaker 03 And they wanted to do a daytime show.
6:33 Conan O'Brien? Oh, is it?
6:34 Speaker 03 Remember it was in Rick's office?
6:35 Conan O'Brien? It was like the middle of a car accident.
6:37 Speaker 03 It was in Rick Rosen's office and we did take that meeting.
6:39 Conan O'Brien? We took a meeting and they pitched me as a daytime host.
6:41 Speaker 01 Oh, that'd be awful.
6:42 Conan O'Brien? I'd be so lovable and fun.
6:44 Speaker 01 Oh, you said lovable and fun. I said it would be awful.
6:46 Conan O'Brien? Why would it be awful?
6:47 Speaker 03 Maybe not then.
6:48 Speaker 01 Because your humor is for the wee hours of the night.
6:53 Conan O'Brien? I don't know what time people listen to this podcast. The podcast does very well.
6:56 Speaker 01 Your humor, your sense of humor is kind of silly and edgy and goofy.
7:01 Speaker 03 I think Adam could look right now and see when most people listen to this podcast.
7:04 Speaker 01 A lot of, but a lot of moms would just be like, what is this?
7:08 Conan O'Brien? You also have a good business perspective. Uh, and you are, um, you know, the podcast whisperer. Does what I do translate to daytime? Should I have a daytime show?
7:16 Speaker 04 I don't love it, no.
7:18 Conan O'Brien? Why, why don't you love it?
7:19 Speaker 04 For the reasons that Sona said, I think like, I just can't imagine that that demographic sitting around on their, you know, watching in their kitchen.
7:29 Conan O'Brien? Okay.
7:29 Speaker 03 What is it? Explain that demographic, Adam, say it. Say it. What's that demographic? Go ahead.
7:35 Speaker 04 Here's what I will say.
7:36 Speaker 03 Oh.
7:36 Speaker 04 You, as you've aged, your audience has stayed very young. You have a very young, mobile, digital first audience. I think that the podcast, it makes a ton of sense that you're a successful podcaster, that you have a big YouTube channel.
7:49 Conan O'Brien? Can I say this? And I say this, I say this to Adam.
7:51 Speaker 03 Him here.
7:52 Conan O'Brien? I say this to Adam with all respect. Fuck you.
7:57 Speaker 03 You know what I just learned?
7:58 Conan O'Brien? Fuck you. Oh no, I'm on a roll here. Fuck you. You, how dare you tell me I've aged, first of all.
8:04 Speaker 04 Sorry.
8:05 Conan O'Brien? Haven't aged at all. Second of all, um, my, this makes me want to shut down the podcast immediately, and the HBO travel show immediately, and because I'm, I am very reactive, I'm launching a daytime talk show. It's called Conan! And it's two A's. C-O-N-A-A-N exclamation point. Well, that saves it.
8:26 Speaker 04 And it's mostly just to spite me?
8:28 Conan O'Brien? Yes. Most of what I do is to spite someone around me. I've done so much to spite Jeff. I've done so much to spite Sona, and so much of my career now is about spiting you. But Wes, we own it. It's syndicated. And yes, it will do terribly, but we get to own how terribly it does. What do you think?
8:44 Speaker 04 I actually like the idea. It's interesting that, that, that, no, not the idea of you.
8:48 Conan O'Brien? Adam, what's the plot?
8:50 Speaker 04 No, not the idea of you in daytime. I still don't like that idea. I like this Byron Allen idea, though, that, that linear is now just kind of like up for sale. Like, it's real estate. You can just go and buy real estate on linear television. I think that's interesting.
9:03 Conan O'Brien? I agree.
9:04 Speaker 04 There might be opportunities there. I don't think it's daytime.
9:06 Conan O'Brien? Ellen, when her daytime show did something very popular, which she would come out and she would dance. People know that I'm very physical and stuff like that. Here's my thing. I come out and dance, and I don't stop. I dance for the entire hour. I dance the entire hour, and people come out and pitch their projects in the background, and you barely hear them, and I'm rocking out the whole time. And I could get into the kind of shape where I do that for a whole hour of just dance. And tell me, housewives don't want to see that. Is that a derogatory term? Housewives don't want to see that. I don't want to use a derogatory term. I thought you meant Real Housewives? Is that offensive to the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City?
9:40 Speaker 04 I don't know.
9:42 Conan O'Brien? I don't know. It's just, I'm spitballing here. Make it good. I was just saying, MTV's The Grind was very popular. You could bring back MTV's The Grind. Oh, MTV is so gone, though, isn't it? What is MTV now?
9:54 Speaker 03 MTV is gonna, uh, I don't know, with the Paramount thing. We'll see what happens.
9:58 Conan O'Brien? Well, what will those DJs do?
10:02 Speaker 03 They're, they're, they're not around anymore.
10:05 Conan O'Brien? Don't tell me Kurt Loder isn't still on TV. Oh, yes! Talking to Chris Novoselic and the rest of Nirvana. I mean, come on. You can't fool me. What am I, Rip Van Winkle? I fell asleep for 30 years? Um, I need to know what's going on in the business. What are you counseling me to do? You're my consigliere. You're my Tom Hagen.
10:28 Speaker 03 Well, I think you should keep doing what you're doing because it's going really well.
10:31 Conan O'Brien? Okay, so keep, so keep going with the podcast.
10:33 Speaker 03 Yes, oh yeah.
10:34 Conan O'Brien? Um, and, and daytime show, should we let that go? It's Conan with two As and I'll go up to three As.
10:42 Speaker 03 Here's what I'm gonna say. Do you really wanna do a daily show again?
10:45 Conan O'Brien? Never.
10:45 Speaker 03 Okay, then forget it. Then lose that idea.
10:47 Speaker 01 Wait, what if he said he did? What are you gonna say?
10:51 Speaker 01 Were you gonna say something if you wanted to do a daily show?
10:54 Conan O'Brien? You know what I learned, being here just in the last 10 minutes? This is like the suck up room. This is what goes on in here. Everybody sucks up to Conan.
11:01 Speaker 03 Not Eduardo.
11:02 Speaker 01 We do not suck up to him. Suck up?
11:05 Conan O'Brien? Not Eduardo.
11:05 Speaker 03 You'd be great at it. You'd be great at it. You'd be great at it.
11:08 Speaker 01 I tried not to do it.
11:08 Speaker 03 You told not to do it, but you said you'd be great at it.
11:10 Conan O'Brien? No, no, no. Did you? I tell you one thing, you gotta give Eduardo his props. Eduardo despises me.
11:17 Speaker 03 That's right.
11:17 Conan O'Brien? And has made it very clear from day one, just because occasionally I spill water into the electrical outlets.
11:24 Speaker 03 You called me the Sonic Stalin.
11:26 Conan O'Brien? Yeah, Sonic Stalin. Yeah, I did. Yeah, you rule with an iron fist. You've killed so many of your own people. Um, I'm just saying that he doesn't, no, I get a lot of pushback in this room.
11:36 Speaker 03 Oh, good.
11:36 Conan O'Brien? But, uh, I, I don't know what the next move is. We've got.
11:40 Speaker 03 You don't, well, there is, well, you don't need a next move, first of all. You can do whatever you want. And I think that, and I think that, we've talked about various things and things you might wanna be interested in doing, which are possible and you can do.
11:52 Conan O'Brien? You know what? No one's ever approached me about a clothing line, which I find shocking.
11:55 Speaker 03 Oh, no, that's not true. Gavin.
11:57 Conan O'Brien? No, Gavin Pallone, Gavin Pallone, Gavin Pallone is my, Gavin Pallone is my manager. If, we don't even know what Gavin's story is.
12:07 Speaker 03 We don't know where he is.
12:07 Conan O'Brien? We never have. He told me he was a manager years ago, and I've known him longer than I've known you.
12:12 Speaker 03 That's right.
12:12 Conan O'Brien? Uh, I've known Gavin forever, um, and, uh, he'll come up with these ideas, but they're not grounded in anything. He didn't come to me with a proposal. He just said, "You gotta sell clothes." And, um, I think for a while, oh, his one good idea.
12:27 Speaker 03 Hair gel.
12:28 Conan O'Brien? No, hair pomade. A pomade.
12:30 Speaker 03 Right, right.
12:31 Conan O'Brien? And I think, what, you shaking your head no?
12:32 Speaker 03 I think it's a great idea. I just don't know that it was his idea.
12:38 Conan O'Brien? Whose idea do you think it was? You can say.
12:41 Speaker 04 I think Liza and I both came up with it on the same day.
12:43 Speaker 01 Okay.
12:44 Conan O'Brien? Well, first of all.
12:44 Speaker 04 But I don't, I don't wanna.
12:45 Conan O'Brien? Yeah, but then Gavin wouldn't let it go.
12:47 Speaker 04 Oh, that might be true.
12:48 Conan O'Brien? Okay.
12:48 Speaker 04 Gavin was pushing coffee. He was pu- a coffee brand.
12:51 Conan O'Brien? Oh, and you know what? I remember his push for coffee brand was people think you're so hopped up on coffee. That they would buy the kind of coffee you're on. That was his pitch. Like, you should sell Ritalin pills because people think that you're an out of control child.
13:04 Speaker 03 There was also, um, not tequila, but some kind of, he wanted, he wanted.
13:07 Speaker 04 I thought it was a whiskey.
13:08 Conan O'Brien? A whiskey, right.
13:09 Speaker 04 Yeah.
13:09 Conan O'Brien? Right.
13:10 Speaker 04 Irish whiskey.
13:10 Conan O'Brien? He wanted it so. An Irish whiskey. And no self respecting Irishman will drink what I'm drinking.
13:22 Conan O'Brien? You know, winning an award, that's a big achievement, right?
13:24 Speaker 01 Yeah, I love awards.
13:25 Conan O'Brien? Every now and then in life, maybe something nice like that comes your way.
13:28 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
13:28 Conan O'Brien? Winning them consistently is almost impossible. It just doesn't happen.
13:32 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
13:32 Conan O'Brien? You know? Well, guess what? Winning five times in six years? You know what that sounds like to me? Sustained excellence.
13:39 Speaker 01 Nice.
13:40 Conan O'Brien? Hyundai has done just that, earning the title of America's best SUV brand for 2026 from US News and World Report. You are a very happy Hyundai driver.
13:48 Speaker 01 I drive a Hyundai Palisade and I love my car. I love it. I love driving it around.
13:53 Conan O'Brien? I've been tooling around in a Ioniq 5 N, which I love.
13:56 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
13:57 Conan O'Brien? Beautiful car. Well, listen, whether you need an SUV for everyday life, your next big adventure, or extra room for family and friends, Hyundai has an option for you. The Tucson Hybrid is loaded with technology and built for everyday life. The Santa Fe Hybrid's fully capable and ready for adventure. The Palisade, that's yours, right?
14:12 Speaker 01 Hello.
14:13 Conan O'Brien? They're gonna rename that the Sona. The Palisade Hybrid, yeah, delivers premium capability and class leading interior space. With available, I have this memorized, H-Track all wheel drive, up to an EPA estimated 619 miles of range on vehicles like the Palisade Hybrid and Hyundai's industry leading warranty. It's easy to see why Hyundai continues to deliver the quality, innovation, technology, and value drivers expect from an award winning brand. View US News Best Cars at cars.usnews.com and call 562-314-4603 for complete details.
14:46 Conan O'Brien? Who do you shop for first on the holidays, Sona? Was it, do you shop for the kids or do you shop for Tac?
14:50 Speaker 01 My kids.
14:51 Conan O'Brien? Okay.
14:51 Speaker 01 Or Oki.
14:52 Conan O'Brien? You gotta get them your stuff.
14:52 Speaker 01 Or my dog.
14:53 Conan O'Brien? And then your husband is last. Well, guess what? It's that time of year. You feel that, you smell that cinnamon cider in the air? Do you smell that?
15:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:03 Conan O'Brien? And you see pumpkins around, people buying turkeys? A little early to buy a turkey.
15:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:08 Conan O'Brien? Doesn't matter. Holidays? I would say it's just around the corner, but that's a cliche. It's very nearby in the cupboard. Well, guess what? Amazon delivers joy with low prices on the gifts you want even this early in the season. So get ahead of the season. Shop early gifts, top picks, holiday decor, and advent calendars at low prices. Get ahead, start on holiday gifting with Amazon's low prices. Shop now at amazon.com/holiday.
15:39 Conan O'Brien? With the US Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card, you earn an unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase. Huh, it's a good deal.
15:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:47 Conan O'Brien? No quarterly activations, no categories to track, just unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase. Sona, just the other day, I bought you this antique wig stand.
15:57 Speaker 01 Oh.
15:58 Conan O'Brien? And I didn't get cash back and I regret it now.
16:01 Speaker 01 Oh, okay. Well, that's a very thoughtful gift.
16:04 Conan O'Brien? Do you wear a wig or is that your hair?
16:06 Speaker 01 Absolutely not. It's definitely my hair. And so it's kind of, it's kind of insulting you would buy that gift for me.
16:11 Conan O'Brien? Well, I'll just return it anyway, but I do wish I got cash back.
16:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
16:15 Conan O'Brien? Visit usbank.com/smartlycard to learn more. The creditor and issuer of this card is US Bank National Association, pursuant to a license from Visa USA, Inc. Some restrictions may apply.
16:29 Conan O'Brien? Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first, but didn't live up to the hype?
16:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, like all the time.
16:34 Conan O'Brien? Yeah, I did that with an all potato restaurant.
16:37 Speaker 01 Oh, no.
16:40 Conan O'Brien? Marketers know that feeling. They optimize for the numbers that look great, like impressions, but then they don't see revenue. You know what I'm talking about, don't you, Sona?
16:49 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, all the time.
16:50 Conan O'Brien? Yeah, LinkedIn has a word for that. Bullspend.
16:53 Speaker 01 Bullspend.
16:54 Conan O'Brien? Yeah, instead you can get the highest ROAS of major ad networks with LinkedIn ads.
16:58 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm.
16:59 Conan O'Brien? Cut the bullspend. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com/Conan. Terms apply.
17:16 Conan O'Brien? No clothing company has come to me.
17:19 Speaker 03 Well, not, no, not a clothing.
17:20 Conan O'Brien? No, they have not. Okay. Well, don't say everything.
17:22 Speaker 03 Well, it's been pitched to you.
17:23 Conan O'Brien? No, but I think people probably look at the way I dress and think, I want to look like him. He's like Don Draper on Mad Men. I want to.
17:30 Speaker 01 Okay.
17:31 Conan O'Brien? How you doing there?
17:32 Speaker 01 I think that if someone has really long legs, they'll be like, what jeans does Conan wear?
17:37 Conan O'Brien? Yeah.
17:37 Speaker 03 Just for the sizing?
17:38 Speaker 01 Just for your sizing, for your proportions.
17:40 Conan O'Brien? Okay, what about that? I have very, my proportions are extremely long legs.
17:43 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:44 Conan O'Brien? Clothing that's tailored for the man who's had some sort of genetic malfunction. And has really long legs. You know?
17:52 Speaker 01 Like, big and tall, but just tall.
17:54 Conan O'Brien? Yeah, just, just tall in the leg.
17:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:56 Conan O'Brien? Conan O'Brien's tall in the leg stores.
17:58 Speaker 01 Okay.
17:58 Conan O'Brien? And it's just for people who are really long in the leg.
18:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:02 Speaker 03 You know, in the early days.
18:03 Conan O'Brien? This room's getting really, this room's getting really quiet.
18:05 Speaker 03 Speaking of your legs, in the early days of the internet and of YouTube.
18:09 Conan O'Brien? Yep.
18:10 Speaker 03 For a long time, and we could probably, somebody could probably look it up, the biggest clip on YouTube was you and Spanx.
18:17 Conan O'Brien? Oh, jaggings.
18:18 Speaker 03 Jaggings.
18:19 Conan O'Brien? Yeah.
18:20 Speaker 03 It was only in Spanx then.
18:21 Conan O'Brien? No, it was, it was jaggings. I wore jaggings and that was a huge clip.
18:26 Speaker 03 It was a thing. It was like a five second clip and it was humongous.
18:29 Speaker 01 Maybe you should do something that is way outside of what you would normally do. Like.
18:35 Conan O'Brien? Something charitable and kind?
18:36 Speaker 01 No, I'm saying like a makeup line. You know how like Rihanna came up with a makeup line?
18:40 Conan O'Brien? Those things are huge.
18:41 Speaker 01 For different complexions? Like, you, if you did, if you went up against Rihanna.
18:46 Conan O'Brien? You know what? Rihanna, Rihanna, Rihanna would shit her pants if she knew I was coming after her. If Rihanna knew that Conan O'Brien was coming out for the pale man in your life. You know, and it's like it covers up an eye vein. All the stuff that I'm pitching is like, look, we all have a prominent eye vein that shows up on camera when we're doing a podcast. It's also a really specific problem. Well, this, apply this and it, it softens it.
19:15 Speaker 01 And your freckles. If you have like a lot of freckles.
19:17 Conan O'Brien? If you have super thin lips and beady creepy eyes.
19:23 Conan O'Brien? Jeff, I think we've found it.
19:24 Speaker 03 Yeah, I think so. And I think, I think, I think, I think your pitch is perfect.
19:29 Conan O'Brien? Jeff, what is-
19:30 Speaker 03 It's pitch perfect.
19:31 Conan O'Brien? Let's be serious, back to serious for a second. We don't know, I have a question for you that you can answer. All I know is that so many people I know aren't working, so many of the writers we know, it's very hard to get work now. Yet I go home and all I see are thousands of new streaming shows. There's never been more product available to people, but my sense is that a lot of people aren't working. What's happening?
19:56 Speaker 03 I think a lot of them are made overseas. A lot of them. And I'm not saying it's the entire issue, but I think a lot of them are made overseas.
20:03 Conan O'Brien? But what about, so that means that writers-
20:06 Speaker 03 Don't write them. U.S. writers don't write, of course writers write them, but U.S. writers don't write them.
20:10 Conan O'Brien? Wow.
20:11 Speaker 03 American writers.
20:11 Conan O'Brien? Oh my god.
20:12 Speaker 03 Yeah.
20:12 Conan O'Brien? Yeah, it's, it's crazy, because that is the puzzling part, is I go home and Liza and I are just flipping through, I mean, every time you turn on one of these streamers, they've got, uh-
20:23 Speaker 03 You need subtitles.
20:24 Conan O'Brien? Seven more shows, yeah, you need subtitles, but there's so much product and, uh, and then you wonder, well gee, that's good.
20:34 Speaker 03 I don't think, I don't think it's the whole problem. I think things got really expensive and out of control and in this country, in this town of all places.
20:41 Conan O'Brien? We had a moment on the Oscars that was really said a lot to me, which is, we had an idea for the Oscars where I'm backstage and I just had this image flash. Sometimes things just come to me as an image and one image was, when I'm coming back, when they're bumping in from commercial to come back to me, I'll be backstage and it'll be a, um, I'm rolling on the floor with nine golden retrievers. I'm, I'm rolling on the floor with nine, nine golden retrievers and the band's playing and then you hear, ladies and gentlemen, once again, your host Conan O'Brien, and I leap up and a team of a whole bunch of people with giant, um, you know, uh, lint brushes.
21:18 Speaker 03 Yeah.
21:18 Conan O'Brien? Roll me really quickly and I step out on stage and go, hi everybody, you know, cinematography. And, um, it was just this quick, silly visual that I loved and it's really interesting, um, one of the producers said, okay, this is going to be incredibly expensive.
21:34 Speaker 03 I know.
21:34 Conan O'Brien? And I said, really? Just getting a couple of golden retrievers? And she said, well, the rule is, each dog has to be acclimated with the other dog, so they all have to live together for like two weeks before they can come on, before they can be on camera together. And if they're living together, all their people, their handlers have to live with them too.
21:56 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
21:57 Conan O'Brien? And she was going through all the things and how the cost got up to, I think it was gonna cost as much as like, uh, you know, baseline sticker price for like a Porsche.
22:07 Speaker 03 It was, it was like thirty thousand dollars.
22:08 Conan O'Brien? I think it was more than that.
22:09 Speaker 03 Maybe.
22:10 Conan O'Brien? I think it was more than thirty, but so not a Porsche, but a really good, high-end Nissan Leaf.
22:16 Speaker 03 And then I think somebody said, somebody said, then somebody said, what about puppies? And they went, more expensive.
22:20 Conan O'Brien? Yeah, puppies are more expensive. We, and, and basically, it's all this stuff that gets built in over time, these different rules. And I realized in that moment, you know, we used to do things in the nineties, we used to get away with murder because we would think of an idea at four thirty, a really weird idea, and we would throw it out on the air. And, um, then a lot of time goes by and I think rules change and things.
22:48 Speaker 03 I also think in the Oscars, especially when people hear Oscars, the price goes up.
22:54 Conan O'Brien? Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right.
22:56 Speaker 03 Yeah.
22:57 Conan O'Brien? Uh, and, but I was, I, in that moment with the Golden Retrievers, I thought, oh, this is a concrete example of something that's happening that's making me think, I see why people go to Budapest to shoot something.
23:12 Speaker 03 Yeah.
23:13 Conan O'Brien? Because, I see why, because, um, and I've, I've heard that a lot of, I mean, we used, for years, for over a decade, for eleven years, we were on Warner Brothers, that, and it was, you know, humming that things are quieter in some of these lots than they used to be.
23:28 Speaker 03 When we left, they were building new stages, I believe.
23:31 Conan O'Brien? Yeah.
23:32 Speaker 03 And everything was packed. And I hear now it's like half empty.
23:34 Speaker 01 Oh.
23:35 Speaker 03 I don't, I don't know that.
23:36 Conan O'Brien? Can I say one thing?
23:37 Speaker 03 I don't know that it's true.
23:38 Conan O'Brien? I will say that happens whenever Conan O'Brien leaves a place.
23:40 Speaker 03 Makes sense.
23:41 Conan O'Brien? NBC pretty much collapsed after I left.
23:43 Speaker 01 Oh.
23:44 Conan O'Brien? Um, you know, but that's called the tone effect. When I leave a party.
23:48 Speaker 03 In a way, it did.
23:49 Conan O'Brien? Good luck to that party.
23:52 Conan O'Brien? Um, but yeah, it's fascinating to me. The, uh, I mean, we're joking around, but then at the same time, I do accidentally have real questions, which is I, I, you know, we've now been, I got started in 1985. That's ancient history now.
24:08 Speaker 03 Very different.
24:09 Conan O'Brien? And you know what's funny? I was surfing the internet the other day and something came up. Uh, I don't know if it was on Instagram or maybe it was Instagram where they know kind of what you're interested in and they showed me, uh, footage of a, um, video store, um, like a Blockbuster.
24:28 Speaker 03 Yeah.
24:29 Conan O'Brien? And it was from 1986 or something when I was first out here with Greg Daniels. And someone had taken a video with like a video camera of all the displays. And now it looks like the footage I used to look at when I was a kid from the 1920s.
24:44 Speaker 01 Oh, trippy.
24:46 Conan O'Brien? You know what I mean? Where people are riding around with, wearing straw hats in funny. I remember looking at a Blockbuster now looks like, oh, that's a speakeasy during.
24:55 Speaker 01 Forty years ago.
24:56 Conan O'Brien? It's 40 years ago.
24:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:57 Conan O'Brien? And I know that young people now see that footage and think, everyone looks crazy. We all look like we're in a flock of seagulls with padded shoulders and we're going, oh, it's my, I have to rent a video so I can watch Back to the Future again. You know, I'm going to go home and put this into a giant 600 pound machine and watch Back to the Future.
25:17 Speaker 01 Yeah. And then rewind it.
25:19 Conan O'Brien? Yeah. And then.
25:20 Speaker 01 Be kind, rewind.
25:21 Conan O'Brien? Yeah.
25:21 Speaker 03 Remember when we were in Finland and somebody came up to us, we were at a party and somebody came up to us with a phone. They said, hey, look, your show's on.
25:27 Conan O'Brien? Oh, someone showed us our show on a phone.
25:28 Speaker 03 Now, this was like, how many years ago?
25:30 Conan O'Brien? Oh, I mean, this would be 25 years ago or something, 20 years ago.
25:33 Speaker 03 And they went, I'm looking at it and we're like, what?
25:36 Conan O'Brien? Oh, I felt bad because I said witch.
25:38 Speaker 01 Oh, no.
25:39 Conan O'Brien? And I threw hot oil on them. And then she was a witch.
25:42 Speaker 01 Oh.
25:43 Conan O'Brien? But it had nothing to do with her having the phone. That was completely beside, uh, but.
25:47 Speaker 01 That's good.
25:47 Conan O'Brien? No, I remember we were at some event for NBC and they said, um, we were in Washington DC and it was some event, broadcasting event, and this is in the nineties and they said, we're going to show you something called HDTV, high definition TV, and they had it on a flat screen TV.
26:05 Conan O'Brien? And we walked up to it, it was a football game. And I was watching it and it was the. I mean, I don't think HDTV was commercially available at the time. They were just showing us a sample of this thing that was going to be coming very soon.
26:18 Speaker 03 Yeah.
26:18 Conan O'Brien? I remember being able to see the divots in the ground. And it blew me away. And now you watch TV, TVs that are probably a hundred times more precise than that one. And we're just like, duh. What else? We get so inured to this technology.
26:35 Speaker 03 Remember how expensive they were when they came out? And now they're like, it's like a commodity.
26:39 Conan O'Brien? Oh, well, you used to get a flat screen TV and people were like, oh, you're getting a flat screen? Yeah, I, I went to the bank and I got a cosigner. And I talked to my accountant. It's being installed tomorrow by a team of scientists.
26:53 Speaker 03 I mean, Adam's can speak to, well, this criminal over here can speak to it too.
26:57 Speaker 01 Fuck you, Eduardo.
26:58 Speaker 03 Yeah. Then when the games are on, you just have your phone and you're just watching games live, you know?
27:02 Conan O'Brien? But that's you, Jeff. I mean, I've seen you many times sitting alone at a restaurant.
27:05 Speaker 03 No, these guys too.
27:06 Speaker 01 This guy does it while he's engineering this show. Yeah, remember?
27:12 Conan O'Brien? Oh, that's right. Eduardo, you like to watch your, well, you call it football, I call it soccer.
27:16 Speaker 03 Yeah.
27:16 Conan O'Brien? But it's a, um.
27:18 Speaker 03 I'm watching one right now. No, I'm just kidding.
27:20 Speaker 01 That would have been cool.
27:21 Conan O'Brien? No, it's a, it's a whole, it's all, listen.
27:24 Speaker 03 I was just having lunch with somebody just now.
27:25 Conan O'Brien? Oh, wow, Conan, you really cracked it.
27:27 Speaker 01 There's no job.
27:28 Conan O'Brien? Things have changed. Um, yeah, but it's just stunning.
27:31 Speaker 01 You can't ever fire us.
27:33 Conan O'Brien? What time?
27:34 Speaker 01 We have, you have, you have to work for, until you're like 90. Cause otherwise we're all fucked. So you should just.
27:40 Conan O'Brien? You can get a job that's just ridiculous anywhere else.
27:42 Speaker 01 What are you talking, no. Conan, you really have to work till you're 90. Thank you. We'll put it in writing.
27:48 Conan O'Brien? Um.
27:48 Speaker 01 Just till you're 90. Thank you.
27:50 Speaker 03 Then I'll be 96.
27:52 Conan O'Brien? Do you think, Jeff, that you have adapted to the new ways? Uh, I don't know.
27:57 Speaker 03 In what sense do you mean?
27:59 Conan O'Brien? Um, do you know how to work your phone? Do you know how to?
28:05 Speaker 01 Is that the baseline standard? Do you know how to work your phone?
28:08 Conan O'Brien? I'm saying, because David knows full well that I don't know these things. Jeff has never had to call me to help him log into a streaming service like you do.
28:15 Speaker 03 Well, I have had to call you for a few things. Every now and then, but not a lot.
28:20 Conan O'Brien? Yeah, dig a hole.
28:23 Speaker 03 By the way.
28:23 Conan O'Brien? Very different. He started making noise.
28:26 Speaker 03 You better put my house on the market.
28:28 Conan O'Brien? What? Started yelling, I had to do something.
28:31 Speaker 01 Oh, God.
28:32 Conan O'Brien? Oh, come on, it gets so dark so fast.
28:35 Speaker 03 Well, it's the beauty of it.
28:37 Speaker 01 Oh, no.
28:37 Conan O'Brien? I bring you in here and then I expose you as a highway killer.
28:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
28:41 Speaker 03 Well, you know.
28:42 Conan O'Brien? He's called the highway mumbling. People are disappearing on the 405 freeway and they, all they find is a shoe and they hear some mumbling.
28:51 Speaker 03 Guilty as charged.
28:53 Conan O'Brien? Well, listen, so you say the state of the podcast is good, we should keep going.
28:56 Speaker 03 Oh, yes.
28:57 Conan O'Brien? HBO, it's all good, I shouldn't panic.
28:59 Speaker 03 No.
28:59 Conan O'Brien? All right, well, listen, but, uh...
29:01 Speaker 03 HBO loves you, they want more of whatever you want to give them.
29:03 Speaker 01 Oh, hey.
29:05 Conan O'Brien? Well, I'm gonna give them a daytime show.
29:07 Speaker 01 Oh, boo.
29:10 Conan O'Brien? Watch Conan dance for an hour.
29:12 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
29:12 Conan O'Brien? As guests far behind him yell to try to be heard. Can you imagine just me in the foreground dancing and they're in the background going, "The book's called A Time For Summer"? They get frustrated and walk away.
29:26 Speaker 01 It's gonna be great.
29:27 Conan O'Brien? We're on for three whole days.
29:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
29:28 Conan O'Brien? All right, Jeff, thanks for coming in. I think you brought sanity to a very damaged ecosystem. And just for the record, Eduardo despises me.
29:36 Speaker 03 Hate you.
29:36 Conan O'Brien? Uh, and I get a lot of hate from this room, so I think it's very good.
29:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, that's our job, that's what we do.
29:42 Speaker 03 Oh, happy to join in.
29:44 Conan O'Brien? Very happy.
29:46 Speaker 05 Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan with Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy.
30:03 Speaker 05 Supervising producer, Aaron Blair. Associate talent producer, Jennifer Samples. Associate producers, Sean Dougherty and Lisa Byrme. Engineering by Eduardo Perez. Get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at siriusxm.com/conan. Please rate, review, and subscribe to Conan O'Brien Needs a Fan wherever fine podcasts are down.
30:31 Speaker 06 Time for a quick break to talk about McDonald's. It's the tangiest time of the year. For a limited time, head to McDonald's and get a McRib sandwich. Make it a meal by adding a medium fries and a soft drink like an ice cold Diet Dr. Pepper. So grab a McRib sandwich and embrace the tang. Save time by ordering ahead on the app. At participating McDonald's for a limited time. Dr. Pepper is a registered trademark of Dr. Pepper 7-Up Inc.
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