Caleb Downs Dallas Cowboys newest star on his first NFL Training Camp, facing Ceedee & George Pickens, high expectations, bond with Christian Parker, Nick Saban influence, psychology of sports, how his college wins and losses prep a championship mindset

“Going against Ceedee and GP is prepping me for what I need to be at my best." Caleb Downs On the road, hitting all the Training Camps and had to make it to Oxnard to check out the rookie sensation- Caleb Downs who joins us for a conversation during his first NFL training camp with the Dallas Cowboys, stepping into the league as a first-round pick with expectations already sky-high. Caleb opens up about making the transition from college football to the NFL, the pressure that comes with being a highly touted first-rounder, and what it means to now wear the Cowboys star. He talks about going against elite teammates like CeeDee Lamb and George Pickens every day at practice, learning what separates NFL players, and the intensity of competing against the best in the world. He opens up on his immediate bond with Defensive Coordinator Christian Parker and what he sees in his new coach that can take the defense to the next level. The conversation also goes back to his championship-winning college career, his time playing for Nick Saban, and the lessons he took from one of football's greatest coaches. Caleb reflects on playing alongside stars like Jeremiah Smith, the competitive mindset that helped him win at the college level, and how those experiences prepared him for Sundays in the NFL. He shares how the upsets and losses are just as important as the wins in maintaining a championship mindset. Caleb tells the guys that since he was young, he's studied some of the greatest athletes from Kobe Bryant to Tom Brady to Michael Jordan not because of their skill set but because of their habits and uses his findings in his everyday life. Caleb also gets personal about family, the pride of following those who came before him, and what it means to have a brother already playing in the NFL while continuing a football legacy of his own. From winning in college to earning his place in Dallas, Caleb Downs gives The Pivot an inside look at the mindset, expectations and family foundation behind one of football's rising young stars. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 0:30Speaker 02

  Caleb Downs has never been your average athlete. A relentless hunger to learn, a burning drive to be the best and a competitive edge that extends far beyond the football field have always set him apart. He's not just different, he's exceptional and he plays like it. A five-star high school safety, freshman All-American at Bama, a two-time All-American at Ohio State. His resume already reads like a vet. So it's only right that he now steps into the spotlight as the newest star of America's team. The standout from a family of high achievers grounded in faith and built on expectation now finds himself on the biggest stage, drafted by the Dallas Cowboys. So his journey raises one question. What is Caleb gonna do when the path doesn't go exactly as planned?

• 1:14Speaker 02

  We dive into the highs and the lows of his Ohio State career, revisiting one of their brightest talents and measuring how that talent stacks up alongside names like C.D. and George Pickens. I'm guessing you know who this young wide receiver is. He opens up about slipping further in the draft than he hoped, but landing exactly where he belongs and the optimism that now fuels him in Oxnard. This is a new era for the Cowboys defense with defensive coordinator, Christian Parker. New expectations, new pressures and a young star safety ready to set the tone. And for Caleb, it's all about goals for this year, what he wants to prove, how he wants to lead and the standard he's chasing every single day.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  So Caleb Downs now joins me, Chan and Freddie T on a Pivot Training Camp tour, coming to you from Oxnard, California.

• 2:25Ryan Clark?

  Caleb Downs, man, welcome to the show. This is Channing Crowder, this is Fred Taylor, I'm Ryan Clark. Pivot fam, thank y'all for pivoting with us. I'm actually upset with you.

• 2:34Speaker 04

  Upset with me?

• 2:35Ryan Clark?

  Yeah. You can do something I was never able to accomplish.

• 2:39Speaker 04

  What is that?

• 2:40Ryan Clark?

  Actually complete the Rubik's Cube.

• 2:42Speaker 04

  I, I beat you at that when I was in sixth grade then. You, you behind, way behind.

• 2:47Ryan Clark?

  Well, I stopped trying in the sixth grade though. Like, once I couldn't figure it out, it just wasn't that important to me to, to do.

• 2:55Speaker 04

  That's just never been who I am, so.

• 2:57Ryan Clark?

  What made you want to do the Rubik's Cube?

• 3:03Speaker 04

  I don't know. It was honestly, all the little kids in my class could do it. And I was just like, man, I'm not gonna be the all winner. I took like a couple of weeks to learn how to do it. My parents would watch me, I'd be at the dinner table every night trying to do it. And then, once you get the codes memorized, it's kind of just comes to you as you're doing it. So then, yeah, it's pretty simple now.

• 3:28Channing Crowder?

  You're intellectual and you play a barbaric sport.

• 3:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:33Channing Crowder?

  Is there a switch? Does something turn over because you bang?

• 3:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, but there's a, I was saying this to somebody a couple of minutes ago. I was like, when you play, there can be no thought. You can't think about anything. There's no fear, there's no hesitation, there's no doubt. Just see ball, get ball at some point.

• 3:49Fred Taylor?

  So I'm glad we have you here because you can probably help us with this question. SEC or Big Ten?

• 3:56Speaker 04

  Oh, you can't argue with the Big Ten the past couple of years. You cannot argue with that. I would say in totality, I'll probably say since I was growing up and everything, the SEC is probably a better place, better, they have a better culmination of teams. But the Big Ten is catching up with NIL. So in terms of like, Indiana's now, they're, schools like Purdue are taking guys from SEC schools now. So I would say like in terms of that, the Big Ten is getting closer, but the top of the Big Ten, they beat the SEC the past couple of years.

• 4:31Ryan Clark?

  I think the, the thing that's different is when we played or before NIL and the transfer portal, the depth in the SEC would stay at the school.

• 4:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:42Ryan Clark?

  Right? Like you could be, you'd be a five-star and wait to play at Alabama because you knew what it meant.

• 4:47Speaker 04

  That's what my dad was, when I was getting recruited, he was worried about me going to Alabama. He was like, I don't want you to be one of them kids that like just, they just sit there and they just wait. I was like, I'm not saying it's gonna be me, but it's definitely something that SEC, you remember schools like they got Mika Fitzpatrick, then they have Ronnie Harrison, then they have all these other safeties, like dang.

• 5:08Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 5:08Speaker 04

  They real deep. And then other schools got one guy, go there and play.

• 5:13Ryan Clark?

  I mean, you gotta think about that even recent, you know, right before you got to Alabama, Malachi Moore has a great freshman year, but he also signed the same year as Brian Branch. And then Brian Branch becomes the starting star and he's obviously an all-pro. And so there's all, all those things that happen in the SEC. Put before your eyes that which you want to be.

• 5:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:36Ryan Clark?

  Right?

• 5:36Speaker 04

  That's been, that's been something my dad's told me since I was a kid.

• 5:40Ryan Clark?

  That's a quote that your dad made sure he imprinted on your brain. What did that grow to mean for you?

• 5:49Speaker 04

  Now, it's a confidence builder, I would say for me. Like even before yesterday, watching famous boxers and watching, what did I watch yesterday? Ronnie Harrison before I played. Last year I watched U2 one time before I played, just watching people that have done it at the highest level. To know like, okay, they can do it. And then I'll watch my film, just put before your eyes what you want to be and how you want to play. Play fast, play physical, I mean, go out and make plays.

• 6:21Ryan Clark?

  You started to have a fascination with greatness at a young age and watching the Kobe Bryant and the Michael Jordans and the Tom Brady's, but you weren't studying as much the play as the habits.

• 6:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:37Ryan Clark?

  What was the thought that spawned, I guess, that level of inquisitive thought to take that route to learn the habits of greatness?

• 6:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I think in my sophomore year, I appreciate all you guys do with mental health. I was, I was struggling with how I was handled, everything on the field and off the field. And then I got a sports psychologist for at that time and it kind of made me want to figure out how people have succeeded at this high of a level with all the pressures that come with it. Because I was feeling pressure and I was a sophomore, I was like, oh, this is, people feel pressure in there playing at the highest level. So I wondered what that's like. So I just went on a spree of, okay, I'm gonna just look at all of Tom Brady's career and look at all of what he did and try to learn everything I can about him. Look at Michael Jordan's career, look at Kobe's career, just trying to see how these

• 7:34Speaker 04

  people handled the situations that they went through and how their mindset changed throughout their careers. Because I think people have, Kobe changed his mindset from when he first got in the league and from the end. So just, just trying to learn how people achieve greatness in their own, in their own rights.

• 7:52Channing Crowder?

  They say pressure is a privilege, but you a first-round draft pick on a very publicized team.

• 8:01Speaker 04

  Publicized team, yeah. That's, that's the way to put it, yeah.

• 8:03Channing Crowder?

  Yeah. What you learned in college, what you went through your sophomore year, can those, can those lessons carry over to this? Because you played it too, amazing, Alabama and damn Ohio State, but now you're in America's team.

• 8:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think it definitely, it plays a role. Because I've done it going into high school, people didn't think I was gonna succeed at Alabama, but to me it was just like, I know who I am, I know what I have to do and I'm gonna do that. And then the same thing happened at Ohio State and they were like, we haven't won a championship in 10 years. And it was like, it is what it is. It is what it is. You go there and you play your ball, you make your plays and everything else is out of your hands. But just the same type of mentality going in this situation. People say a bunch of stuff, but I can't.

• 8:54Channing Crowder?

  You played for Saban.

• 8:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's, somebody asked me that the other day, they was like, are you a, you an Alabama guy? I was like, no, I'm a, I'm a Saban guy. I'm a Saban guy, that's who I am.

• 9:04Channing Crowder?

  I was a Saban guy too. He drafted me.

• 9:06Ryan Clark?

  No, you were drafted by Saban, you're not a Saban guy. There's two different, there's two different, no.

• 9:12Channing Crowder?

  I wasn't, I was drafted, but I wasn't unchosen. Saban, I heard the story, Saban put his foot on the desk for me and said, go get this boy out of Florida. I know he can play ball.

• 9:26Fred Taylor?

  He was a Saban guy till he wasn't.

• 9:30Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, till I till I brought in a an exotic dancer for him on rookie day.

• 9:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, he he would not have appreciated that.

• 9:37Channing Crowder?

  He didn't appreciate it. He ran off. He ran off the stage. But that, but Ryan, was it Ryan Day? He was, he's more, it's funny that phrase, player coach and dictator.

• 9:51Speaker 04

  There's different ways of being a player's coach, yeah. But he's he's definitely more of a.

• 9:56Channing Crowder?

  More relatable.

• 9:57Speaker 04

  More relatable to the players, yes.

• 9:59Channing Crowder?

  What what gets the best out of players? Because I like the Sabans. I don't need to go to your house on Thanksgiving. You tell me that they're about to run a screen on the backside of trips. I'm gonna make the play. I don't need you to be nice and friendly to me.

• 10:11Speaker 04

  I think it depends on the player. I think that's definitely the biggest thing. But to me, it necessarily didn't matter as long as there was an expectation of how we were supposed to play. So as long as that's what what it was when we were on the field, it didn't necessarily matter. The only thing that was different with Coach Day was, you probably remember how Coach Saban was with like installs and everything. Everything was construed to have the defense be able to layer their stuff in correctly. First day, so Alabama, you only allowed first day of practice, two by two, three by one, no motions. Everything's really simple. Coach Day, no, no, no, first day.

• 10:49Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 10:50Speaker 04

  Four by one, unbalanced. We're running trick plays, whatever. So just dealing with the offensive defensive minded thing, that was that was the biggest thing. But they're just different people, so.

• 11:02Channing Crowder?

  Did y'all run base under old double seven adjusted switch triple clip?

• 11:08Speaker 04

  That sounds so made up to the comic book.

• 11:10Channing Crowder?

  But y'all read that. Boy, he called that damn defense so many times.

• 11:15Speaker 04

  He loved cover seven. He loved cover seven.

• 11:18Fred Taylor?

  Caleb, you brought a smile to my face when you mentioned watching videos of greats before you would go out and perform to remind you that, you know, you can do it. I also had a mental coach, and that's the exact practice we would do when I was sort of stuck in a rut for a while. And it helped me kind of evolve my game. But you mentioned the greats, starting watching them at a young age. One, I want to know, like, what what triggered that? Was it the same mentality that you had with the Rubik's Cube, growing up in a football family? And not, and feeling not wanting to be left out? Did that sort of trigger you to get to the point where you would study those great players at such a young age?

• 12:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think it was, it was that. But also, like, my family's, there's a lot of high achievers in there. My uncle's been playing at the highest level of football for.

• 12:11Fred Taylor?

  Great.

• 12:12Speaker 04

  He played like 10 years. My dad played at the highest level. And then, as a younger brother, you're always chasing your older brother. So that's just, that's just part of it for me, just knowing that, like, Josh was older than me. He had accomplished a couple of things, and it was like, okay, I had to, I had to push past that. But I don't know, there's always, I've always felt like there's something in me that's just like, I have to compete. It doesn't, it was not a choice. It's just like, it's just there.

• 12:38Fred Taylor?

  When you're older, when Josh says you're the best player in the family, what does that do for, like, is that pressure? Is that love?

• 12:46Speaker 04

  I think it's love because I've always felt like, watching him, I was like, dang. Like, he's, he's set the tone for me in so many ways, especially watching him in college. Like, that was like one of the, that's where we really got close, honestly. Him being able to watch my high school career and me being able to watch him in college, not play his freshman year, come in at the end of the season, his freshman year, go for like two tugs versus A and M, and then his sophomore year, taking off and doing everything he did. I think we just both gained a lot of respect for each other through those encounters and just seeing the transition of our lives happen. But I think it's love, and when he, when he says that, I believe that.

• 13:30Speaker 04

  So to me, it's just kind of like, it's whatever.

• 13:35Speaker 04

  And he's a great player in himself, so it's not saying he's not a, not a great player. But I don't know, it's just a special feeling for me.

• 13:42Fred Taylor?

  For sure.

• 13:43Ryan Clark?

  You know, you think about safeties, like, I always have this conversation. Safeties and running backs are very, are thought of very similarly. They are important pieces very often, but they aren't thought of as the most important pieces to great defenses, to great offenses. And when safeties are drafted very early, the way I see it, if you draft a safety in the first 10 to 15 picks, sometimes in the first round at all, that safety has to have Hall of Fame potential, right? Because there's too many other times where you see guys, second round, third round, later, who become very good safeties in the league.

• 14:27Ryan Clark?

  You know, you, when you draft a guy, you want him to be Ed Reed, you want him to be Troy Palamalu. You want him to be who Roy Williams was here after being drafted eighth overall. How important was it to be drafted early as a sense of validation of the work you had put in up until that point?

• 14:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, I wouldn't lie to you and say it wasn't important to me just because we all had pride in ourselves and, and expectations for how we see things playing out. So definitely was a part of my thought process, like, I deserve this. I've, I felt like this is, this is something that I've earned. But on the day, you kind of just forget about all that and just be like, I just need to get this over with. I need to have somebody pick me just so I can move on from the situation. But about like the expectation things, it's a part of it. I mean, you guys are in this situation.

• 15:29Speaker 04

  It's a part of the media to put those expectations out there and have people make comments about it, have people make their own assumptions about them. But to me, as a, how you brought the running back and safety into it, I think it's just whoever makes the impact on your team and whoever you're going to put at the point of attack, that's the most important player on your team. So it doesn't matter if it's your running back, if it's your wide receiver. If you're going to put this player and put this, put the ball in their hands in terms of making the play, that's the most important player on your team. That's how I've always saw myself. So it doesn't, them picking me 11, them picking me whatever, whatever play comes to me, that's the play I got to make.

• 16:11Speaker 04

  So it doesn't really matter what number they picked me. I was just going to go out and play my game at the highest level.

• 16:18Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I think the other question, though, I would have for you is, I've played with Hall of Fame talents, right? It was kind of like my lot in life, you know what I'm saying? It was like, yeah, you're really good at football, but they're like transcendentally good at football, right? So I was the, I was the other guy, you know? Troy wants to do this on a play? No problem, Troy. I'll go do this other thing. And then there were games he was out and I was the best player on the field, but I understood my role. People like you don't understand those things.

• 16:51Ryan Clark?

  You know, oh, look at us, we don't, we get to do all the fun stuff. But I make that joke, I remember there would be games where Troy would be looking at Coach LeBeau and he'd be like, let me play. We just talked to Mika Fitzpatrick, and he said he played so well in the deep part of the field early on in Pittsburgh that he kind of got stuck there, and teams could go away from him, not throw to the half, not throw to the middle of the field. And he said he wanted to be involved in the game. About halfway through, maybe a little less, your first season at Ohio State, it felt like you were stuck in a place where you weren't as involved in the game. You come off of being the first freshman to lead Alabama in tackles, right? Which is an impressive feat, which meant you were involved.

• 17:37Ryan Clark?

  How did you deal with not being as big a part of the active game plan early on at Ohio State?

• 17:48Speaker 04

  Again, I can't lie and say it didn't affect me.

• 17:52Ryan Clark?

  He wanted to get like the right.

• 17:55Speaker 04

  You say, you say that I don't know how to deal with that, like you said. All right, you're right, Alabama, I was the field safety, and that was like strictly what I was. I was the field safety, bumped down to play star sometimes, and then I was the dime. So they didn't necessarily move me around, but the way they called the game, we're gonna, we're gonna, yeah, they're gonna put me where the ball's gonna be, so, and they're gonna funnel the ball to me, so it was cool. And then getting to Ohio State, the first couple of games. It wasn't necessarily like that, which was fine. It was like, we have another great safety, Lathan Ransome, that's there. So it's not like the planes aren't getting made, that's fine. But I get what Minka was saying. You're in the deep part of the field, you're just not gonna throw the ball there.

• 18:41Speaker 04

  You're just gonna be pedaling to eternity.

• 18:44Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 18:46Speaker 04

  You're gonna pedal to eternity. That's what I call it, just pedal to eternity and go do whatever.

• 18:51Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 18:52Speaker 04

  So, yeah, it got a little boring, but I actually give it all to like my coaches. They made the certain adjustments. It wasn't me like, just like, ah, I gotta be in the game. It was more so like, we gotta get this guy involved here. We didn't just bring him here to-

• 19:07Ryan Clark?

  Sit in the middle of the field.

• 19:08Speaker 04

  Sit in the middle of the field and do nothing.

• 19:09Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 19:10Speaker 04

  So they made the right changes, Coach Walton, Coach Guerrero, even Coach Knowles. At the beginning of it, it was like, oh, this is the system. This is how everything works here. And it was like, alright, cool, like, that's how it is, that's how it is. I'm gonna just make the plays that come to me and that's whatever. And then later on in the season, you can see the defense change and everything, so. But we won.

• 19:36Speaker 04

  If we didn't win, then I'd be like, okay, we might have needed to stay the other way.

• 19:40Ryan Clark?

  Nah, see, they was like, you gonna play middle runner? You gonna be the Ralph Larry safety? You're gonna, like, I watched the game and I was, cuz I was pissed off cuz, you know, y'all play Notre Dame. I wanted to win and I was like, put him out there somewhere. Like, he don't need to be involved, but then it, you know-

• 19:56Channing Crowder?

  Think about the play against Texas, you know, deep in the red zone. That's a, sort of just a manifestation of some of those changes you said people made.

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• 20:35Channing Crowder?

  But a kid is smart as kid cuz I could be your dad. I'm 43 years old, but-

• 20:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was funny you say like, the other day we're doing, like, telling stories about ourselves in the DB room. And I'm like, dang, I'm the youngest dude in here. I'm not even peeping.

• 20:51Ryan Clark?

  You are a very young-

• 20:52Speaker 04

  Youngest dude in here.

• 20:53Channing Crowder?

  Do you advocate for yourself? Cuz it's funny, we weren't allowed to, I played for Saban. You're not allowed to tell Nick Saban anything. I wasn't gonna be, hey, Coach, I need to blitz more. Get out of my damn office. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, is it changing? Do you, have you at Ohio State? You speak about going to Ohio State. And then now, like, go tell the coach, be like, hey, Coach, I need to get in the box. Like, I could do this, I could play this, but I could play this, though. I could play the dime.

• 21:19Speaker 04

  I would say it comes with trust cuz my freshman year, definitely that was not, I wasn't going up to coach being like, oh, this is what we need to do. If you ask my opinion, I would give it to him, but it never was like, this is what we need to do. But I would say going later in the season, my sophomore year, and then my junior year with Matt Patricia, it was definitely like, tell me what you see. Like, at the end of the day, that's how Coach Patricia literally called the games. He was just like, hey, you guys are on the field, you, Sonny, Arvel, whatever you see, like, if y'all see it, I mean, y'all are closer up than me, that's what we're gonna go with. So there will be, there will be times like that where it'll be like, hey, I think we need to use this disguise, do this certain thing, and I think that would make an impact.

• 22:02Speaker 04

  But I'm kinda back to being sort of like that young freshman to where it's like, hey, you gotta earn the right to say anything here, so.

• 22:13Speaker 04

  And I can appreciate that, that's what it is, and I'm glad to be in the situation.

• 22:18Fred Taylor?

  Matty P, I just wanna put something on your mind real quick. Kenny Easley and Ronnie Lott, they went fourth and eighth. The only Hall of Famer is drafted before you. Sean Taylor was drafted fifth, he would have been a Hall of Famer.

• 22:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:33Fred Taylor?

  Troy Palamalu, 16th, and Ed Reeves, 24th. That's a great list of great players, give you something to shoot after. But speaking of the draft, you mentioned being the youngest guy in the room. You said during or before the draft that you believe you can influence or change the culture, right? At whatever team picks you. What gives a 21-year-old rookie the confidence that he can go in a locker room full of grown men? The confidence to be able to influence the locker room?

• 23:03Speaker 04

  I'm not saying it's gonna be like, hey, I'm gonna tell you what you need to do and a grown man is just gonna listen to me in terms of like saying, I think you need to do this and so help us win. But I think it's just the culmination of being around people. I think I'm one of those type of people where I'm gonna do all the work myself and you're gonna know that I put in my time and if I have an opinion on something, I'm not gonna be shy to say it, that's just what it is. And I think that is, that is part of it. I think it's also just the belief that I've won everywhere I've been at. And I know, I know that people will be like, oh, you're in the league. That's not necessarily how it is, but I think God has had favor on my life.

• 23:42Speaker 04

  So I can't say that it's like all me, like, me, myself, and I is gonna make a huge change somewhere. But I do believe that God has plans for me to succeed at this level. So who would I be not to say that I'm gonna have an impact on a, on a team, on an organization that I'm around, so.

• 24:00Fred Taylor?

  You've played at some great organizations, say Bama, Ohio State. This is different. Cowboys, the following, we way out here in Cali, Oxnard, in the middle or wherever. And just the following, have you seen like the difference here?

• 24:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, I've, we had like open practices at Ohio State. Bama, no open practice.

• 24:23Speaker 04

  Coach A would never let that happen, but just the amount of people that come out here to practice every day, the amount of people that watch, the amount of people that just have opinions on Cowboys football.

• 24:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, you can see the impact and how much people care about it. And I think it's, it's a part of the brand that Jerry Jones has built and how he's built the organization and the winning that they've had in the past, so I think it's awesome.

• 24:49Ryan Clark?

  New coaches get attached to new players in this sense, right? I played for Saban, too. I wasn't a new player, but I was a Saban guy. But, you know, his first recruiting class was Marcus Spears and Michael Clayton, all these people who didn't normally go to LSU, right? Nick Saban got them to come there, you know? So he was attached to those people. The same thing happens with coordinators, you know? You have Christian Parker who has become a first-time defensive coordinator. His first pick and the first pick of the draft that he's on a team is a safety, right? Those guys get attached to one another. And if you play extremely well and this defense plays extremely well,

• 25:32Ryan Clark?

  that's going to be part of his resume, his legacy. What have you seen from him in trying to build a relationship with him that makes you believe or leads you to believe he could be successful at this job?

• 25:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, I would say the same thing I was talking about with me in terms of just that Rubik's Cube, just the motivation to try to find ways to succeed. I see it in him every day. He's probably in there watching film right now at 10 o'clock at night. If I go get a snack from the hotel, I see him in there watching film. If we go watch film together, it's 8:30, 9 o'clock at night. He's continually watching coordinators, watching defenses, just trying to learn the game and it's full, full scope. And I feel like those are the things that make the biggest impact. Even being around Matt Patricia, that's how he was, like, hey, Coach, you need to go home. You need to go home, you need to go do these things.

• 26:28Speaker 04

  But it's like, he has that same type of mindset and focus on being the best that he can be. So I think it's like-mindedness in that terms, that what you're talking about, that'll make, that'll make an impact in the future.

• 26:44Channing Crowder?

  I know you ain't played a real game yet, but the biggest difference, we talked to Travis Hunter recently. And he was saying like, after his rookie year.

• 26:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:53Channing Crowder?

  And he was like, I was like, what's the difference? Is it the receivers, is it the linemen? He was like, man, that damn playbook. He was like, it's that big a difference. You played for some, you bring up Matt Patricia. You bring up Nick Saban, so like, you even know the defense that I called earlier. Like, what has the biggest difference you've seen transitioning now with the big boys?

• 27:12Speaker 04

  I'd just say the guys up front, those are like, those are some animals. Quinnen Williams, Kenny Clark, Rashad Gary, like, those are some-

• 27:22Ryan Clark?

  Grown men. And it's all of them.

• 27:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, like, it's all of them, like, those are some-

• 27:25Channing Crowder?

  Y'all stacked over them defense, no?

• 27:26Speaker 04

  Those are some, like, large human beings, as Matt Patricia would say. Like, those are some large human beings.

• 27:31Fred Taylor?

  Chan, he was studying Alabama install in high school. True story?

• 27:38Speaker 04

  Coach Kelly, we used to get on Zooms when I was a sophomore, go through the defense.

• 27:43Ryan Clark?

  Also for like, isn't that, that's gotta be a recruiting violation, see? That's what, hey, that's why Saban left cuz he wasn't gonna be able to do that no more.

• 27:51Channing Crowder?

  I was about to say, man, he was the cheat code.

• 27:53Ryan Clark?

  Wonder why we all there not scoring no damn points against Alabama? This man ain't been in that damn install three years.

• 27:59Fred Taylor?

  No, everywhere he has to be.

• 28:00Ryan Clark?

  No, but like, for me, I wasn't as athletically probably gifted.

• 28:05Speaker 04

  Man, people be-

• 28:08Ryan Clark?

  No, what I'm saying is like, my first year in the league, I was 185 pounds, right? Like, I had to, I had to grow into whatever it became.

• 28:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:15Ryan Clark?

  But adjusting to a playbook was never an issue, right? The reason, he made the joke about me not being drafted. But the reason I made the team was because in camp, they'd be like, we need a nickel today. I'm like, I can do it, right? They might be like, we need a dime today, I can do it, right? Somebody gotta play free and strong, I can do it. Like, I was able to do, to play every position, so I at least gave myself reps.

• 28:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:37Ryan Clark?

  Right, and, you know, so it wasn't, like, that wasn't the adjustment. The adjustment for me was, like, even in not being a player that was drafted, like, I just remember being better than people a lot. You know what I'm saying? And like, lining up across from people and being like, I'm not tripping, you know? There're gonna be some Sundays that you've watched film all week and you're like, okay, I'm gonna have to make this adjustment, I'm gonna have to make this adjustment. And you mentioned winning a lot. How are you preparing for the adversity, right? The criticism or the play where the dude just might have left the hospital with more than you? You did everything right and they caught the ball. Have you thought about ways to make sure mentally?

• 29:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:20Ryan Clark?

  You're locked in enough to say, okay, I gotta let that play go. I can't live with that, let's move on to the next.

• 29:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's always been something that, me being a perfectionist, that I've struggled with. Even through college and high school, it's like, I gotta let those plays go.

• 29:37Speaker 04

  But you're right, like, we're playing against the cream of the crop right now and people are gonna make plays, that's part of it. So just trying to wrap my head around that'll be something, but we have a good team, like college, and she already, we already, we've already been talking about- She already brought it up to me about ways to help that. So yeah, I've had a couple of conversations.

• 30:00Ryan Clark?

  Okay, so my question is this, because you talk, you know, earlier you was like, man, I just always won. You ain't win against Indiana and Miami at the end of your college career.

• 30:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean.

• 30:12Ryan Clark?

  Yes.

• 30:13Speaker 04

  My point is. I've had a lot of winning in my life.

• 30:16Ryan Clark?

  But you was, y'all, you guys were on such a streak when you go from the college football playoff the year before, who you guys were as a team your entire last year.

• 30:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:27Ryan Clark?

  But Indiana in the Big Ten Championship, that's a tough game. Defense plays well, but they play better. Miami, right? It's athletic, it's physical. How did you process those losses on your way out, really capping off your college career?

• 30:44Speaker 04

  I say I've won a lot, but a lot of the winning has come through adversity.

• 30:50Speaker 04

  We won my sophomore year because we lost in the regular season to Oregon and Michigan. We didn't go through that my junior year. That is why we lost to Indiana. You could tell, I mean, I could tell now, I can tell at the end of the game, we were not ready for them to be still in the game. So when the game got close at the end, guys were like, what's going on? They're a good football team. What are we talking about?

• 31:20Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 31:20Speaker 04

  We gotta go beat them, we gotta go play well. So I think, yeah, I know that there's parts of winning that comes with losing. So even when we played against Miami, there was just certain parts of our team that it was like, okay, this didn't show up throughout the year because we can mask it, we weren't playing against high level competition.

• 31:40Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 31:42Speaker 04

  Now it's here. Are we going to be able to adjust to it? In some cases, we weren't. So, but a lot of that stuff, we kind of knew, like me and Coach Patricia, Coach Wong, we already knew some of those things that were going to come up. So it sucks that we lost at the end of my career. That kind of was never.

• 32:02Ryan Clark?

  That wasn't part of the plan.

• 32:05Speaker 04

  That doesn't sit well to this day, especially because I truly believe we should have won those games.

• 32:13Speaker 04

  But we're here now.

• 32:16Ryan Clark?

  But he's still struggling. He's still mad?

• 32:21Speaker 04

  It doesn't matter anymore. I feel like it doesn't matter what happened.

• 32:25Speaker 07

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• 32:56Ryan Clark?

  The thing I loved watching about your team, especially two years ago at Ohio State with Trevion Henderson, was the level of faith that you guys showed publicly. Right? That you guys were not shy about proclaiming Christ's greatness. Right? And it wasn't necessarily the popular thing or the end thing. And then something switched and people started to gravitate toward it about that Ohio State team.

• 33:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:29Ryan Clark?

  What was sort of the catalyst for you all being so public about sharing your faith?

• 33:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think it's a culmination of everybody there that was on that team and everybody's trials that they had been through. Like talking about G Scott, he wasn't even a believer when he first got there. Hearing his story when I got there was, it was awesome to hear. And you could tell the growth that people in the building had seen through him. So it's not like, hey, I've just been a Christian my whole life and I want to share this. It's like, no, I wasn't a Christian and I've changed and I want to share with people the encounter that I've had with Jesus. So I feel like it's stories like that, stories that Trey has, story that Ameka has, and the culmination of all that together that comes and says like, hey, our job isn't just

• 34:16Speaker 04

  to be Christians together and be buddy buddy with Christians, but to share our faith with everybody. And at the end of the day, if you and a couple of guys that you're hanging out with, I was just listening to my pastor in Georgia today. He's like, if you're in a, in a group of people and everybody's a Christian, you're not really saving anybody else from going to hell. So I feel like that's just, that's just how it's supposed to be. You're supposed to share your faith, you're supposed to care about the people that are around you and try to spread the word with them. Because at the end of the day, it's not just you that has an impact on whether you're going to heaven, but you're supposed to care for anybody else goes to heaven too.

• 34:56Ryan Clark?

  So just go forth and make disciples.

• 34:57Channing Crowder?

  They used to ask me what, why I didn't come to chapel? And I would say, because it's Saturday night.

• 35:07Channing Crowder?

  I can't make it to chapel, I'm still drunk.

• 35:11Speaker 04

  But that's why, that's why, that's why you gotta be there.

• 35:17Channing Crowder?

  I can't come to the Lord in this, in this manner.

• 35:22Channing Crowder?

  But now, but you talking about seeing dogs, you got GP and CD over there.

• 35:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:26Ryan Clark?

  He passed interference, CD in the end zone.

• 35:28Speaker 04

  I actually didn't know. They didn't call it.

• 35:31Channing Crowder?

  They threw a flag, it was clean. But then what in the division, they got neighbors? You got Debo, Scary Terry, you got some dogs.

• 35:41Speaker 04

  Debo's not there.

• 35:42Ryan Clark?

  You know what would be a good question?

• 35:43Speaker 04

  Oh, Stephon's there now.

• 35:44Ryan Clark?

  You know what would be a good question though, is what's it like at practice every day with the CDs?

• 35:49Speaker 04

  It's bummed, honestly.

• 35:52Speaker 04

  I just, for me, like, I've always been somebody that's, I don't care who's in front of me, I just, if it's competition, it's competition and I want to go against whoever can make me better for the real time. So in practice, I'm like, call man. Call man when we go out there.

• 36:07Ryan Clark?

  You saying call man if 88 out there?

• 36:10Speaker 04

  I want, I want the work right now so that when the game comes, I'm more confident when the game comes.

• 36:15Channing Crowder?

  Pick a, CD gave you that, gave you the nod of approval yet?

• 36:19Speaker 04

  I'm gonna have to ask him that. That's not me, but. But like, that's just, that's just who I am. I'm just trying to compete, I'm trying to figure out where I'm at, so.

• 36:31Fred Taylor?

  When you look at those two though, how far off is Jeremiah Smith? Because he's also, like, he's a man.

• 36:38Speaker 04

  That's it. He not gonna like this probably. He's.

• 36:43Fred Taylor?

  Right there.

• 36:44Speaker 04

  He's there.

• 36:45Fred Taylor?

  That's what I wanted to say, but I did not want to disrespect the guys that have been.

• 36:50Speaker 04

  He's different though. GP's ball skills is, everything is crazy. CD as a route runner and as an all around football player. But Jeremiah has, when you say like freakishly athletic and then match that with a really good ball player too.

• 37:08Speaker 04

  It's different.

• 37:09Fred Taylor?

  And for you though, Dallas moving up from 12 to 11, was that validation or did it give you some, or did it give you something to remember or motivate you for the 10 picks that you didn't go? Like some guys look at a draft and say, I remember this team, this team, and this team that bypassed me. Was that anything for you or you just kind of blew it off and say, I'm good where I'm at?

• 37:34Speaker 04

  The best case scenario of the draft for me was Dallas moving up to like sixth. So ending up in Dallas was where I wanted to be. So it really didn't necessarily matter in totality. But the other teams that didn't pick me.

• 37:54Ryan Clark?

  You know, I'll be honest, man, I have no sympathy for guys like you. Like, like when I.

• 37:59Channing Crowder?

  I went 11th, I should have went 6th.

• 38:01Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, yeah, like we're not here right now. I'm not saying like.

• 38:04Speaker 04

  Sympathy wise, I'm just saying like, he's asking a question in terms of, did I feel some type of way? No, like.

• 38:13Ryan Clark?

  Yes, you did.

• 38:15Fred Taylor?

  Look, this is where I'd say so. I know what you're talking about. This is where I wanted to be. I had a shot to go third to Chicago. They took someone else who didn't pan out at all for them. Now I laugh at the Bears. So I can relate to you and it might happen in your career, but the guy that went six went to LSU, Mancur. Yeah, he went to LSU. Good player still.

• 38:40Speaker 04

  But that was the Cleveland's pick and they traded it to.

• 38:43Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, Chiefs.

• 38:44Speaker 04

  The Chiefs. So it's, I mean, no, I don't, I don't think about it now, but in 20 years, maybe it'll cross my mind. But at this point, it doesn't matter.

• 38:53Ryan Clark?

  I think if you do everything you're, you're supposed to do and you've worked to do, it won't cross your mind. It won't, it won't matter then. The, the last thing for, for me would just be, as a person who seems extremely organized, well planned, right? I'm a very planned person, right? For instance, I had all my suits picked out for Monday Night Football already. They were all designed, I'd already started.

• 39:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, and they had the RC logo on.

• 39:22Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, and now I don't need them. Because I no longer have that job.

• 39:28Ryan Clark?

  You know what I mean? So, but in that, my plan has to be able to adjust. Right? If things aren't going the way that you want them to, and you have this regiment and you have this routine that you felt like is the best routine, will you have the ability to make the adjustments to that plan to find your footing in this league?

• 39:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, I think I won't rest until I find the process that allows me to do that. So not necessarily just the results, but.

• 40:03Speaker 04

  Until I feel like I have the game plan throughout the week to get me to that day, I don't think I'll be able to rest until that happens.

• 40:13Ryan Clark?

  I love that because my plan probably evolved to like year seven. Right, I had something I did in college that worked that needed to change based on schedule, based on what we were working on that day. You know what I'm saying? And it eventually got to where I was in Pittsburgh long enough where I knew Wednesday was first and second down, right? So Monday I was gonna, I was gonna sit and I was gonna watch the games on all 22 without a clicker. Just get the feel of it, see how it worked, see what they called, look at the down and distance and not really stress myself about it. Then I know on Tuesday I was gonna watch every first and second down snap, meet with Troy in the morning, we were gonna talk about what we were gonna do, we were gonna adjust that after Wednesday practice, right?

• 40:54Ryan Clark?

  So I got in that groove of knowing what got me there, but early on I have a plan, it wouldn't work or I wouldn't be prepared or there'd be a play I felt like I hadn't seen and I'd almost panic because I'd be like, man, I did everything I was supposed to do and this happened. And so I was just asking, are you ready to mold that plan into what's gonna work for Caleb Downs in year two? Because that might be different than year five and different than year seven. And I think that's an all-important piece to like the evolution of being exactly who you're supposed to be. What's your, sir?

• 41:25Channing Crowder?

  We give him that advice? Beer and chicken wings. That's what makes you play good.

• 41:32Speaker 04

  What'd he say?

• 41:33Channing Crowder?

  Beer and chicken wings.

• 41:34Speaker 04

  All right.

• 41:38Ryan Clark?

  Everybody has their process, Caleb.

• 41:40Fred Taylor?

  No, seriously, November 8.

• 41:43Speaker 04

  November 8?

• 41:44Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 41:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:46Fred Taylor?

  You took a look at it already or not?

• 41:47Speaker 04

  Yeah. It popped up right when you said the date. I knew what you were talking about.

• 41:51Fred Taylor?

  Yeah. Expectations, anticipation, when you saw it, what was the level of excitement, I guess?

• 42:00Speaker 04

  I think if you, if you look at our draft video, you, you know the excitement that was there when I walked, after I was on the stage, I walked back to where my family was and my brother was like, I'll see you that day. And it was, all right, I'll see you then.

• 42:20Fred Taylor?

  That is so dope. And if you have a kill shot, what you gonna do?

• 42:24Speaker 04

  Taking it. I'm not gonna hit him low or nothing, but he might get hit in the head.

• 42:28Fred Taylor?

  Nah, that's what he used to do.

• 42:31Speaker 04

  I might get thrown out, but it's okay.

• 42:33Fred Taylor?

  They rewrote the rules because of this, dude. We can't have you out there like that.

• 42:37Speaker 04

  Get hit in the chest then.

• 42:38Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, hit him in the chest.

• 42:39Speaker 04

  He'll get hit somewhere.

• 42:42Ryan Clark?

  For you, what's the number one priority in training camp right now to make sure on day one, week one, I believe it's primetime against the Giants, you are as prepared as you can possibly be to truly and fully live your dream?

• 43:02Speaker 04

  I would just say reps against the best. Like that's, that's the best way I can put it. Just trying to find ways to go against CD, trying to find ways to go against GP, Tirt, everybody like that, to get those reps to know like, not to, one of my college coaches, he said, you can't believe in a game, you have to know, like, you have to know, like, I prepared for it, I've done this. He's like, that belief is a, there's an ounce of doubt in there. So it's just getting to that point where like, okay, I know, I know what I'm doing, I know who I am against anybody on the field. It doesn't matter who's out there.

• 43:40Speaker 04

  So that and then just, it's already slowed down from OTAs to now, but just, because it's different from, from safety to nickel. Nickel, you have to, there's not as much time to react to it, but safety, it has to be slower for you. So I would say making it slower at safety and then just reacting and reacting at nickel.

• 44:05Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I think the biggest thing to say about that though is a rookie who already is in a position where he's learning the star position and the safety position. And what's great about our position now that's much different than it used to be is you see the Jalen Petries, the Derwin James, the Kyle Hamiltons and the way that they're utilized in the nickel position just to be involved in the game. And how that's no longer seen as a negative that you play nickel or that, that position, that's not the fifth.

• 44:40Speaker 04

  Nah, that's one of the most important ones.

• 44:43Ryan Clark?

  That's where the heat is. No, and so the fact that you already in that position, man, says a lot about what you can do here. Obviously, your skill set. I mean, I've been a fan since you walked on the campus at Alabama, obviously watching you through Ohio State, getting to know you and have a personal connection. I am invested in what you do. I want to see you be great. I want to see smart, good humans who are extremely talented do well because I think it says a lot about, and it changes people's perspective on what it is to be able to walk with Christ and live a certain way and also be a dog on Sunday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturdays, Fridays, whenever they make y'all play now in the league, man.

• 45:28Ryan Clark?

  So best of luck, bro. Appreciate your time during training camp as well, man. If you ever need me, you know, you got my number.

• 45:34Speaker 04

  For sure. I got three questions. All right. When did these workout videos start, because I see them every time, I see them every day now and I just, I just gotta ask them.

• 45:45Ryan Clark?

  Well, first of all, not every day, Caleb. They're three days a week is my, my scheduled posting. I'm a little one short this week. I had four suits that could fit at Super Bowl. Right? Clearly, you know, I have a closet full of suits. I was 200, I won't say 20 what pounds. And so I started working out. I thought to myself, I was gonna document the process. I got the first day documented, I almost passed out in the hour workout. And so now it just has become habit to post them and, you know, here we are.

• 46:24Channing Crowder?

  Is his workout's efficient?

• 46:25Speaker 04

  I'd be like, all right.

• 46:31Channing Crowder?

  What is he working out for? What are we training for?

• 46:34Ryan Clark?

  Because he's doing, you doing like real CrossFit, I don't know what.

• 46:38Channing Crowder?

  You don't know.

• 46:39Speaker 04

  It's really a mixture of everything.

• 46:41Ryan Clark?

  It's a mixture, yeah. It's a lot of different things. I'm wondering, I'm watching it like, you're working on a lot of different things. Yeah, it's not really, there's really no focus in general, right? Because I'm not, I don't have to go play football, right? So, and also too, you know, I work out everywhere I go. So like this morning, I found a trainer that worked out here in LA at 6:00 AM, right? And I'll go in and he'll be like, hey, what do you want to work? And, you know, I might be like, oh, well, today let's do chest and back, do some core. And so whatever they tell me to do, I'll do. A lot of times the workouts you see me post when I'm by myself and it's just me, I've already worked out like five days that week. So legitimately, I could just go in there and do whatever I want. So normally, man, I put something together, might be full body or core, and then I'll

• 47:25Ryan Clark?

  search the internet for something stupid, like something that some fitness influencer is doing or something like that, and I'll try. And if I can't do it the first time, then I keep trying like a Rubik's Cube.

• 47:37Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 47:38Ryan Clark?

  Until I can do it. Now he understand.

• 47:40Channing Crowder?

  Boosuit ball.

• 47:43Speaker 04

  Does your wife ever feel any type of way?

• 47:44Channing Crowder?

  She does.

• 47:47Speaker 04

  She does?

• 47:48Channing Crowder?

  She does. She's like, you're putting the, all of, you know, our business out there and then our kids, we have teenage kids, so.

• 47:56Speaker 04

  They probably.

• 47:57Channing Crowder?

  With all the stuff I say, their classmates and their teammates, they both play sports, they'll come up and yell stuff to me. Hey, I sell my soul for a hundred million. And like, it's teenagers running up and yelling stuff that I say on the show. And then my kids are embarrassed because they're like, daddy, why did you, like, come on, man? They messing with them at school. So yes, my family does have, does get backlash from, you know, from my approach to the show.

• 48:24Speaker 04

  Yeah. Okay. I've read all his books. It Takes What It Takes. What's that? Neutral, Neutral Thinking. How was his work with you and the impact he made on you?

• 48:41Ryan Clark?

  What's his name?

• 48:44Fred Taylor?

  Trevor Mawath. We, we sat down with Mel Robbins, did an interview with her and I couldn't hold back tears because of the impact and really just thinking about how he helped change my life. I think if I were, if I were asked, what's my big, or one of my biggest pivots in life, it would be connecting with Trev and how he sort of helped rewire my thinking because there was a moment when everybody continued to tell me, oh, you're just injury prone or, you know, you won't be around for a while. And he just kind of helped me reset my confidence.

• 49:28Fred Taylor?

  And much like when you mentioned watching the videos of the greats to allow you to know what's in front of you was possible, we would practice that all the time. And he just helped me believe that or figure out that I was better or I actually was that person.

• 49:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:48Fred Taylor?

  Because I kind of lost that, you know? So I think without Trevor, I don't know if I played 13 years because he gave me something to fight for.

• 49:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:58Ryan Clark?

  Are you finished taking over our show?

• 50:00Speaker 04

  I was just asking some questions.

• 50:01Channing Crowder?

  Damn, you're a smart little fella. Let's go get some Hennessy, man, come on.

• 50:06Ryan Clark?

  My dog.

• 50:10Fred Taylor?

  That was dope.

• 50:11Channing Crowder?

  That's cool, bro.