Nick Saban on Playoff Expansion, Best Bama Stories, Building Championship Culture & Why You Want Selfish Players | 210

92%ers, welcome to another episode of New Heights brought to you by Allstate! Today, we are joined by college football legend, Nick Saban! We talk with Coach Saban about his transition to College Gameday, why he’s against the 24 team playoff, how the transfer portal has changed recruiting, why he always wanted selfish players, how being from West Virginia influenced his coaching style, why he still has a deep respect for Jalen Hurts, his favorite memories from the Bama dynasty, and more! Check out Saban on ESPN+ and Hulu: https://www.espn.com/watch/catalog/10b0aa30-55bf-45ac-9c89-29bb2d20ac47 For more details on our upcoming Philly Tailgate visit: https://kelceclubhouse.com/ Watch and listen to new episodes of New Heights every Wednesday during the NFL season and follow us on Social Media for all the best moments from the show: https://lnk.to/newheightshow You can also listen to new episodes on Wondery, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. . . . Watch the full episode here: Prime:https://www.primevideo.com/detail/0JLG80EV3QTOUJWLN8KSQ3OSTL?ref_=atv_dp_share_cu_r Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-heights/id1643745036 Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/1y3SUbFMUSESC1N43tBleK?si=LsuQ4a5MRN6wGMcfVcuynw Support the show: ALLSTATE: Check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds: https://Allstate.com See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  The wrongs we must right, the fights we must win, the future we must secure together for our nation. This is what's in front of us. This determines what's next for all of us. We are Marines. We were made for this.

• 0:19Speaker 01

  Usually the conversation around here is about football. Today, the topic is gas for one of the sponsors, specifically Mobile Supreme Plus Premium Gasoline. Let's start with the fact that Mobile Supreme Plus Premium is amazing. It keeps engines three times cleaner so engines perform better for better gas mileage. Just ask motorsports legend Shirley Cha Cha Muldowney. She raced top fuel dragsters in the 70s. So she knows a thing or two about gasoline. She also knows a thing or two about the 70s. So if there are any questions about leisure suits, vinyl, or fondue, fire away. One might wonder why they call her Cha Cha. Like, is it a family name or a marketing ploy? Or maybe she thought it sounded cool? It's very curious. Getting back to fuel, Shirley and the team highly recommend Mobile

• 1:01Speaker 01

  Supreme Plus Premium Gas because it keeps engines three times cleaner for better performance and gas mileage. By the way, Cha Cha Muldowney, she drove a pink car. Mobile, legendary. Three times cleaner compared to mobile regular gas and port fuel injected engines. Actual results may vary. Visit mobilefuels.com for details.

• 1:18Speaker 02

  I don't do podcasts. I mean, this may be the second one I've done in my life. I refuse to do it.

• 1:25Travis Kelce?

  No, trust me, this is an honor, Coach.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  But my daughter loves you guys, and she convinced me that I should do this. And I respect for you guys. So I wanted to do it for you guys. But I just want to leave a message out there for everybody else. I'm not doing this shit anymore.

• 1:45Travis Kelce?

  Welcome back to New Heights, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls of Wondery Show, brought to you by Allstate. That's right. We are your hosts. I'm Travis Coates and my big brother Jason Kelce out of Cleveland Heights, Ohio, University of Cincinnati alum. Go Bearcats. Subscribe on YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget to follow the show on all social media, at New Heights Show with one S. And Jason, why don't you tell everybody how this episode is about to go?

• 2:15Speaker 04

  You're gonna enjoy this one, 92%ers. We're gonna get into his time on College Game Day, what he thinks of the 2014 playoff and why there's no I in team, but there is an I in win.

• 2:27Travis Kelce?

  All right, man.

• 2:28Speaker 04

  And so much more.

• 2:29Travis Kelce?

  Jason, do the honors.

• 2:31Speaker 04

  Our guest today is the 1972 MAC champion defensive back from Kent State, seven-time national champion winning coach, 11 SCC championships, college football hall of fame. He's an Emmy award winner, and you can see him every Saturday co-hosting College Game Day. Also, just celebrated his 75th birthday, 92%ers. Please welcome the greatest college football coach of all time, Nick Saban.

• 2:59Travis Kelce?

  Let's go.

• 3:01Speaker 04

  Jesus, Coach.

• 3:02Travis Kelce?

  Nick Saban. Oh, man, that was, I thought you were gonna blow a vessel right there.

• 3:06Speaker 04

  Well, we've left off half of the accomplishments, too. That's only a truncated version of it. Coach, it's an honor to have you. How you doing?

• 3:13Speaker 02

  Doing great. Appreciate you asking. How about you guys?

• 3:16Speaker 04

  We're doing good. I mean, obviously, in the middle of the season, you know, we're rolling, we're traveling and all that. But we're watching football, man. Yeah. Travis still getting out there, getting after it.

• 3:27Travis Kelce?

  Yeah, we, we, we've lost two in a row, but man, it's, the challenge has been set by Coach Reed already, and we're ready to fucking attack it already this week, so.

• 3:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, you guys got off to a great start, though, and, you know, never know how those bye weeks work sometime. I always felt like, you know, if you're playing good and you had a little momentum, the bye weeks weren't so great sometimes.

• 3:49Travis Kelce?

  I hear you.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  Even though players love them. And, you know, sometimes when you, things aren't going well, or you're banged up a little bit, you need to get guys healthy. It works out great for you. So sometimes it's good, sometimes not, but it is what it is.

• 4:05Travis Kelce?

  Ain't that the truth?

• 4:07Speaker 04

  Coach, we're gonna get into college football almost immediately, but I do want to ask you on behalf of Philadelphia. So right now, the Eagles, I don't know how much you're following the NFL these days, lost six straight. If you're the head football coach, what challenges in your experience are being presented to those guys? How are they trying to move forward after suffering something like that?

• 4:30Travis Kelce?

  Coach, have you ever lost six in a row? God damn it. I can't even imagine you losing that many in a row.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  Well, you know, the first year I was at Alabama, we were like six and two, had like, I don't know, six or seven players suspended for the rest of the season by the NCAA for something that happened before I even got there. And we lost like, I don't know, four or five games in a row. But then we sort of bounced back at the end. And, look, I think that what I always try to do with players is say, hey, look, you're creating value for yourself by how you play. And we lost a quarterback, we got some injuries, you know, everybody's got to pick up the slack and do their job a little bit better and play together as a team. And if we don't have a quarterback, we gotta play better

• 5:18Speaker 02

  on defense. If we don't have a quarterback, we gotta run the ball better. So the people around the guys that are not experienced need to play better. So that's what I always try to emphasize with the guys. And, but sometimes it's hard, you know, because you create momentum in sports. And, you know, when things aren't going well, sometimes it's hard to create the momentum and stay positive about what you're doing, how you're practicing, how you're preparing. And, you know, it becomes a little bit of a burden for people. But, you know, the big thing I think you gotta do is just keep teaching and be technical and not be so outcome oriented that, you know, everything's lost because

• 6:03Speaker 02

  we're losing these games. How about let's just play good? Let's just go play good. You know, one play at a time and see what happens.

• 6:10Speaker 04

  I love it. Love it.

• 6:13Travis Kelce?

  Well, College Football Game Day is headed to South Bend, Indiana for a little Notre Dame Miami action. In terms of, you know, the matchups, I think this might be the biggest and most intriguing matchup that Game Day has been to yet. Are you, are you excited for this one? Do you have a, have a take on, on, on the outcome?

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Well, you know, I am excited for it. You know, one thing I love about Game Day is, you know, when you're, you guys played on a team, I coached a team, you know, you look at everything through a straw, you know, who you're playing, your team, what you have to do. But when you get into this Game Day thing, you're looking at everything from a thousand feet. And you're looking at all the teams in the country, watching film on them, seeing what they're doing on offense, defense. I mean, and it's really been fun for me, you know, to do that. But, you know, I think every team that's in the top five, six, seven, that are probably the best teams, all have some flaw, you know, that they, they

• 7:14Speaker 02

  need to improve on. And whoever can manage that disruption the best in terms of making improvement in that area is gonna have the best chance to be successful. So just like Miami, you know, they're a great offensive team, but they've struggled on defense in terms of getting, giving up points, getting off the field on third down, and getting stops. So, and they've given up points, 35 points, you know, a couple times. So they got a challenge on defense. I know they got really good coaches, and I know they'll get them coached up. But, you know, Notre Dame, they seem to have a really good defense. They seem to have a good quarterback. They seem to have good offensive players, good offensive line. I

• 7:57Speaker 02

  don't know if they have the great skill guys outside. Well, they've got enough. But, you know, they, they, they haven't been able to put it together in the big games. Like, you know, they got guys wide ass open in the, in the BYU game, and hell, I could throw it to them and overthrow the guys. I mean.

• 8:19Speaker 04

  It's crazy catch, boys. I'll make it harder than that.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  The guy's open by 10 yards. You don't have to make a perfect throw. Just get the ball to him.

• 8:26Travis Kelce?

  Get it in the vicinity.

• 8:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, but, but anyway, so I think it's gonna be a really good game. You know, somebody, like I just came off the golf course, and these guys are talking about the Notre Dame Miami game, and they say, well, it'll be bad for Miami because they gotta be able to pass the ball if it's raining. And I said, look, I coached defensive backs for 50 years, and I always thought when it was raining, it was an advantage for the offense.

• 8:51Speaker 04

  Oh, interesting.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Because you gotta change direction and try to cover people, and it's really hard if you got a bad field. As long as a quarterback can handle a wet ball, you're in good shape. So, I don't know.

• 9:04Travis Kelce?

  The older, the older I get, the, the more I love the elements, man. All of a sudden, it slows down these quick guys just a little bit. And as long as I'm precise with my movements and my feet, man, I feel like I always got the advantage.

• 9:17Speaker 02

  Well, you can, you know, playing tight end, you can use the umpire. You know, when I was coaching, when I was coaching at the Houston Oilers, and Ozzy was playing in Cleveland.

• 9:28Travis Kelce?

  Legend. Ozzy Newsome, baby.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  I was coaching for Glanville, so we played a lot of Cover One. And Ozzy would rub the strong safety, was Keith Bostick. He would rub his ass off the umpire. I mean, five times a game.

• 9:42Speaker 04

  That's hilarious.

• 9:43Travis Kelce?

  That's legendary. That's legendary. Just find the umpire. I got a deep cross. I'm running, I'm running my man to man into the umpire. I'm sorry in advance, but.

• 9:52Speaker 04

  Yeah. They're not calling OPI on that. That's crazy. Coach, it's been your third season now doing Game Day. Do you find yourself preparing similarly to you did as a, I mean, obviously, much higher thousand, what is it, yard view or whatever that you said, looking at everything holistically. But do you prepare for the games you're covering like you did as a coach?

• 10:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do. Like, I always do that film room thing. So I'll look at three games to pick out five or six plays that, you know, are gonna tell the story that you want to tell about the offense or the defense or whatever the concept is you're talking about. You know, Kirk Herbstreet and I do that big board thing, and I usually pick the plays out for that. So I like that. And then, you know, the other games that we're gonna talk about, maybe I'll watch a game on them just to see what it's like. But what I like is being able to watch what people are doing, you know, whether it's like.

• 10:55Speaker 02

  You know, all these guys drive me crazy in college. No, nobody wants to deny the ball. You know, they want to play zone and break on the ball. If quarterback's any good, breaking on the ball's overrated.

• 11:05Travis Kelce?

  I mean, I hear you.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  So, every now and then you gotta deny the ball, whether you play man to man or play split safety man to man of some kind, whether it's quarters or whatever. And so philosophically, I have a hard time with that. I see these people playing fire zone, playing zone, three under, three deep. And I'm saying, you can play man to man on that, too.

• 11:26Travis Kelce?

  Yeah.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  And, you know, I called it Ripley's match where you only have man if they go vertical, if they go under, you call under and play zone. So you don't get the, the double crossers.

• 11:37Travis Kelce?

  Yeah.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  So anyway, um, I, I love looking at that stuff.

• 11:41Travis Kelce?

  I love it, Coach. And I'll tell you what, I've always respected the guys that came out of Bama, man. The, the mentality, the attention to detail. I just got done playing Patrick Surtan, absolute dog at corner. And I think the, you're, you're, you, just hearing you talk about man to man defense. Do you think it's been a bit of a lost art, art in the college game? And it's making guys, harder for guys to transition into the league?

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Well, to, to be honest with you, um, when I was a college coach, before I went to the Houston Oilers in like 1988, I think it was. And I, I coached every player the same and big zone guy. Because basically I didn't know how to teach man to man. So I go to the NFL and we played a lot of man to man. So I learned that the, the players in the NFL, whether it was Everson Walls, Minnefield, uh, Steve Brown in Houston, those guys really basically taught me how to teach players, how to play man to man and different styles of how to play it.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  And so when I went back to college, I, I felt like we could coach it and teach it. And we could teach different players how to do it because we didn't have to teach everybody the same. So, um, different styles. So, um, I do think there's a lot of guys in college that are afraid to play man to man.

• 13:16Travis Kelce?

  Yeah. Are you talking in terms of different styles? Are you talking just like two man versus single high? Or are you talking actual technique of how

• 13:25Speaker 02

  No, I'm

• 13:25Travis Kelce?

  press versus off?

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm talking about the technique of a guy like

• 13:29Travis Kelce?

  Yeah.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  Frank Minnefield was, uh, not small, but a five 10, five 11, very quick, very explosive, great feet, change of direction. Where Everson Walls was like six two, had 42 inch arms. Wasn't the fastest guy in the world. Um, you know, played a lot in a half turn. But, um, so the way you coached those two guys was completely different. So, um, you know, you get a guy like Marlon Humphrey as opposed to Patrick. You know, you coach them a little bit different. Um, so that's the one thing that I learned being in the NFL. Cause NFL is all about football. I mean, you don't have to recruit.

• 14:11Speaker 02

  You don't have to, you know, do all this, go speak to red elephant clubs and all that bullshit.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  So

• 14:21Travis Kelce?

  I can only fucking imagine, Coach. Oh shit.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  So I, I learned a lot from the players, you know, in the NFL and in terms of, um, how to play man to man. And I, I thought, I always thought that we could teach our players better in college.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  Not only the technique, but also the technique that fit them the best based on their skillset.

• 14:43Travis Kelce?

  That makes so much sense. Heck yeah, it does. And it's proven, it's proven. How many guys you, you had transitioned into the league and they're stars?

• 14:50Speaker 04

  Coach, obviously immensely successful career in coaching. One of the things, every time I hear you talk, it's just like, there's something about as a player, hearing a coach speak, in particular one as good at it as you are, where you just trim all the bullshit out of the conversation and can get right to what's pertinent. Even when we did like a press thing for ESPN and I'm sitting there listening to you talk. I'm like, man, I'll run through a wall for

• 15:17Travis Kelce?

  right now.

• 15:19Speaker 04

  What do you miss? When you're on game day, when you're on the field with someone, do you miss coaching? Is that still run deep in you when you see it on game day and all this stuff?

• 15:28Speaker 02

  You know, what I miss is I miss the relationships with the players. Because, you know, I, I always, I, I always thought a coach should be a teacher. Teacher should inspire learning. And we were trying to help players have a better chance to be more successful in life, personal development, graduate from school and develop them as players. So they have a chance to play at the next level. So I, I miss those relationships that got created in trying to do all that.

• 16:01Speaker 02

  I miss the competition, but I'm telling you, I just turned 75. When you get this old, it, it's, it gets a little harder to work 14 hours every day.

• 16:11Travis Kelce?

  Sure.

• 16:11Speaker 02

  And solve all the problems and, and be able to manage the grind. And I think when you have a really good staff, and we always had a really good staff, but at the end it got harder and harder because people say, well, you had all these coaches become head coaches. Yeah, they become head coaches. That's great. And I want them to become head coaches, but then they take your assistance, too. So you're not only replacing them, you're replacing other people and it gets harder and harder. And I think the longer you're a head coach, the less you know about the best assistants.

• 16:45Speaker 04

  Interesting. Yeah.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  You know, because when I used to recruit, I used to meet guys on the road all the time. And I'd say, hey, I'll hire that guy someday. He, he's a good recruiter.

• 16:54Travis Kelce?

  Wow.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  Teacher. I talk ball with them and all that. And then

• 16:58Travis Kelce?

  So cool.

• 16:59Speaker 02

  You know, I learned from Belichick, like we had, we had all these go get the coffee guys in

• 17:06Travis Kelce?

  Yeah.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  I, I, I'm talking about Phil Savage, who became a general manager. Pioli become a general manager. Uh, Schwartz became a head coach in the league. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm not even naming them all.

• 17:20Travis Kelce?

  Yeah.

• 17:20Speaker 02

  These, these guys are all running around and I'm saying, why are you doing this? He was doing that, not, it didn't create an advantage for us at the time. He was training guys that he knew he would hire someday and bring them back to the organization. So I did that in college all the time. I, I mean, we got NCAA was on our ass all the time. So you got too many GAs, you got too many interns, you got, why you got all these guys? And all, all the coaches are saying, well, he's creating an advantage for himself by having all these coaches. No, I was just trying to train guys, get them a job at Louisville or something, let them coach for a couple of years and then hire them back because I knew what I was getting. So, um, but we, we kind of ran out

• 18:03Speaker 02

  too. So it was harder to have a good staff in the end or the best staff in the end. And, um, made it harder for me. And

• 18:11Travis Kelce?

  Yeah.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  Look, but I, I'm happy to be able to do things that I was never able to do. Simple things like my son had, his granddaughter for Halloween has a Jude box on the porch, playing music. Kids come up, you get one piece of candy. If you dance to the music, you get two. I never got to do that.

• 18:38Speaker 02

  I'm out there, you know, being

• 18:40Travis Kelce?

  Should we dress up for Halloween? You said you dress up for Halloween, Coach?

• 18:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:48Travis Kelce?

  There we go.

• 18:51Travis Kelce?

  I love it. That's gotta be, that's gotta be so much fun, man. Let's get to the current state of football. In or out on the 24 team playoff?

• 18:59Speaker 02

  Uh, I, I, I'm not a big

• 19:03Travis Kelce?

  24 seems like a lot, man.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  Too many. There's not 24 teams in a country that can win the national championship.

• 19:10Speaker 02

  So what is the reason to actually do it?

• 19:15Speaker 04

  Money.

• 19:18Travis Kelce?

  Clear as day right there. Yeah.

• 19:19Speaker 04

  Right.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. But what you're giving up, which is what I hate to see is, you know, the SEC championship game, playing in the SEC championship was a big thing to our players. It was a big thing to our fans. It was a tradition and it was a great venue. I mean, there's only two teams that can play in a national championship, but more teams can play in those kind of championship games. And, you know, you, it's, it, there's a lot of pride in winning the conference championship. And, you know, we played in those games. I mean, we're one, Florida's two, Florida's one, we're two, Georgia's three, we're one. I mean, it was a great game and great. And players love

• 19:57Travis Kelce?

  Every year.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  That. And we're going to give that up to have an extra game where the 24th team is going to play the ninth best team. I mean, if we just put the right 12 teams in and didn't go through all the political BS that we went through so we could have a 12 team playoff and end up putting a couple of teams in it shouldn't be in. And then some other teams that should have been in, didn't get in. That, that, that, that was a good tournament and maybe you go to 16 if you want to include some other people. But 24 is a lot. It's too many games for college football players to play. We played 15 games, I think, three times. And I thought that was too many games for college players to play.

• 20:40Speaker 04

  That's a lot.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  And, and the way we spread them out, you know, I mean, you played December 4th in the SEC championship game. And then you don't play the first round of the playoffs until New Year's. That just makes the season longer and longer. I mean, how would you guys, you guys play in the NFL? How would you like to have a month off?

• 20:58Travis Kelce?

  Just talking about the bye week, how we could, how it could just be, yeah, that's, that's, that's what always confused me.

• 21:04Speaker 02

  I'm not a big proponent of it. And, um, and I really don't think that, um, it's going to create that much more revenue because you're going to give up a lot of revenue. I mean, the SEC championship game, for instance, there's a lot of revenue involved in that.

• 21:21Speaker 04

  Right, right, right.

• 21:22Speaker 02

  Just because you have an extra round of the playoffs, I, I, I don't know how, how much greater the revenue is going to be for the actual schools. So I, I, I don't, I'm, I'm not a big proponent of it. I, I think it minimizes the importance of the season. Like, you know, right now, you could probably win two games if you play a really good schedule and lose two games and still get in the, still get in the playoffs, just like Miami. You know, at this point in the season, last year, Miami was 18th in the country. They lost two games in the middle of the season. They dropped way out of the polls. They barely got in and they were in the championship game. But they had a good, good, good football team. So there's going to be somebody like that this year.

• 22:06Speaker 02

  But I don't think you need 24 teams in there.

• 22:09Travis Kelce?

  No chance. I'm right there with you.

• 22:11Speaker 04

  You brought up the SEC championship game and how big of a game that was. When you were in the SEC, all the years you were, what was the craziest environment that you played in?

• 22:20Travis Kelce?

  Oh yeah. I want to hear this.

• 22:25Speaker 02

  Me personally.

• 22:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  Um, probably the first time I went back to LSU.

• 22:32Speaker 04

  Two thousand eight. Yeah, yeah.

• 22:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:35Travis Kelce?

  Louisiana down there.

• 22:36Speaker 04

  So I've, admittedly, I've never been to an SCC football game and I've always wanted to go. And everybody I know that played in the SCC says, you gotta go to Baton Rouge at night. You gotta go, you gotta go to a night game in LSU.

• 22:52Speaker 02

  It's, look, I love the people there.

• 22:58Travis Kelce?

  Get that out first, get that out first.

• 23:01Speaker 02

  And, you know, we had a great run there and I really enjoyed it. But, man, when I went back that first time, it was, it was rough.

• 23:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:12Speaker 02

  I can't even tell you some of the chants they were chanting.

• 23:20Travis Kelce?

  That's too funny. That's, but that's the beauty of college football right there for you, man.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I tell you, there's a lot of places tough to play in the SCC. Tennessee's a hard place, A and M's a hard place, the swamp's a hard place. Alabama's, you know, tough for the other team to play.

• 23:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  So there, there's a lot of big stadiums and lots of passion in the SCC. And I think the reason for it is there were no pro sports in the South, you know, 50 years ago. And, um, you know, the Dolphins came in, the Atlanta came in. But, so everybody grew up being college football fans or college sports fans. And they, they relate to that institution, whether they went there or not. And there's a lot of passion and man, it's a great league to, to, you know, compete in, play in. Players loved it. I loved it for many, many years and I still think it's a great league. But, look, I, I looked at the schedule the other day.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  There's 10 losses on the teams that have one and two losses in the SCC. There's 10 more losses out there because they play each other.

• 24:27Speaker 04

  Right.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  And, you know, this is where this, this committee, you know, I, I hated it so subjective. But somebody's going to have a really good team and maybe have three losses. And some team that goes 11 and one in some other league is going to get in. And, you know, they would lose three or four games if they were playing that kind of a schedule in the SCC. So it's just a tough, you know, you gotta have some way to evaluate strength of schedule.

• 24:55Speaker 04

  Right. Absolutely.

• 24:57Travis Kelce?

  Well, uh, I'm not, did you get a little taste of the transfer portal before, uh, you stopped coaching?

• 25:04Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, we had it for three years. We had, you know.

• 25:07Travis Kelce?

  I can't remember when, I can't remember when it actually started up and everything. How, how much has the transfer portal taken away from the culture? That, that coaches are, are trying to set and the standard they're trying to set in the building?

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, I think that that's part of it. But I also think that it changed the dynamic for the player. I mean, we all went to college and you guys were in this era too. But you were trying to develop value for your future.

• 25:39Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 25:40Speaker 02

  You know, you working your ass off to be the best player you can be, get a degree, do whatever. Because you were trying to create value for your future. I was trying to create value for my future. But now when these guys, and I'm all for players making money. But they have to have some responsibility for the money that they make, rather than just cut and run anytime they want. But I think you change the dynamic of, are you going to college to develop? And improve, or are you going to college to see how much money you can make? Which means you may not be as committed to doing the things you need to do to be the best that you can be. And there's going to be some adversity that you have to overcome. You're going to have to persevere some things.

• 26:25Speaker 02

  And, you know, guys just go to the next school, go to the next school. So, um, you know, we, we had three years of the transfer portal. And every time an assistant coach would come in and say to me, well, we're only offering a guy 150,000. And they're offering 300,000 at another school. And I'd say, look, if the guy comes here for money, he's going to leave here for money. So we want guys that want to come here. They're going to have good quality of life, but they're going to develop. And they're going to focus on development and the things that they need to do, the habits they need to create, the skills they need to get. The sacrifices they need to make, the habits, all the things they need to do to be the best players they can be. We want aspirational people, man. We don't, we don't want people that are.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  So consequently, I think maybe six guys were the most we ever took out of the portal.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  And kept the players on our team and kept them and developed them and paid them first. And, you know, Gibbs and JMo Williams and, and those kinds of guys are the guys we brought in. Guys that we needed, they needed to play and we needed them to play at their position. So, um, and that's, that's the philosophy that I maintained. But I think it, it gets harder and harder to do that because now you got agents everywhere. You got, but these kids sign contracts, but they mean nothing. They just leave. They don't have any penalty for leaving.

• 27:51Speaker 04

  Well, that's the thing that doesn't make sense to me. Like, and I know you've talked to Congress and they're trying to get this thing right. But it doesn't make sense that there's a commitment from the university, but no commitment in terms of like a contract or any type of time period from the player. Like it's, you know, it's the Wild West. It's not right what's going on.

• 28:10Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:11Speaker 04

  And it's not in the best interest of the player, like you just said, like all for players getting paid. But there's, I developed so much of, you know, work ethic and all of these other attributes in college. Cause you have to figure it out and you have to grind it. And it'd be interesting going through college nowadays with how it happens and how quickly guys just up and leave the moment there's any type of adversity or anything.

• 28:38Speaker 04

  Anyways, sorry, go ahead, coach.

• 28:39Speaker 02

  But, you know, this, this save college sports thing has three components in it. And it's probably 80% good. It could be 20% better. I don't disagree with that. There are some people that think there's some issues with it. But it does create five years of eligibility. So you don't have these guys play in seven and eight years. I mean, last year during the draft, there were 50 players in the draft that were 25 or older. That, that's never happened before.

• 29:07Speaker 04

  It's insane.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  That, that doesn't mean there's only 50 players in college that are 25 or older. That's just how many guys were in the draft.

• 29:13Speaker 04

  Right.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  So five years, you got five years. You start, you got five years. There, there is no sixth, seventh, eighth year, whatever.

• 29:20Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 29:21Travis Kelce?

  It blows my mind.

• 29:22Speaker 02

  Guys are staying in college because they can make money. So that, it addresses that. Number two, you only have one transfer as an undergrad. Now I'm for if a guy graduates and he's got another year left and he can, he's playing.

• 29:37Travis Kelce?

  That's how it was when we were in, yeah.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, and go someplace else for your fifth year. Because you're not going to play as much where you're at or what, you don't have the opportunity. Or maybe it's educational. Maybe you want to get into something that the school you're at doesn't have, whatever it is.

• 29:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  So it addresses that. So you got the eligibility issue. You got the one transfer issue and there is a cap on the money. And it's kind of the Larry Bird rule. I mean, there's 21 million of revenue share and then we're going to take somewhere that amount of money that you, they call them collectives, you know, they raise money at the university and you pay the players. They say it's marketing, but it's really not. So, but, but that money all goes into this pot and you can only pay the players on your team with that money.

• 30:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:24Speaker 02

  So that, that's for player retention.

• 30:27Speaker 04

  Right.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  You know, I call it the Larry Bird rule, you know.

• 30:29Travis Kelce?

  I was going to say, where'd the Larry, where'd the Larry Bird of it all come into play here?

• 30:33Speaker 02

  Well, because they changed the rules in the NBA so he could stay at the Celtics. And he wouldn't go someplace else. So they were, they were able to go over the cap to keep him.

• 30:44Travis Kelce?

  Nice.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  Does that make sense?

• 30:46Travis Kelce?

  A hundred percent.

• 30:47Speaker 02

  So we're, we're making parity greater because right now you have some teams that are spending 60 million dollars on, on their roster. Other teams that are spending 40, other teams that are spending 20, and they're all playing each other. And about 95% of the games get won by the team that has the highest salary cap. So.

• 31:08Travis Kelce?

  Coach, we don't have the oil rigs up in Cincinnati, Ohio. We don't got the ability to just cut the check like some of these Texas schools.

• 31:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  I, I, I get it. And, and that's not, there, there should be some, and look, every school could, let's just say you, you put a 45 million dollar cap on all this.

• 31:32Speaker 02

  Every school can decide whether they want to spend that or not, but nobody can spend more than that. So you can't really buy a roster. And I think that makes better parity, better competition. It goes back to focusing on more development because when a player leaves now, he only can do it once. So he better make sure he's doing the right thing. And I just think it's so much better. So.

• 31:58Speaker 04

  Well, what um.

• 31:59Travis Kelce?

  I agree with you on that, Coach.

• 32:00Speaker 04

  I've heard a lot from coaches saying, you know, kids now are different. In your mind, is coaching different? Is it harder? Are kids different coming up? Excluding all these other things going on with college football? Just into kids as people coming up through sports these days?

• 32:20Speaker 02

  Look, I, I, I think, I think kids are exposed to different things. Like the internet, social media, all, all the things that they get hit with that when we were 17 years old, we, we didn't have to deal with. So do they focus a little more on external factors rather than internal things that they're driven to do probably? But at the same time, I, I still think people want to be disciplined. People want to be led in a direction that's going to help them create value for their future. I think everybody on our team that we ever

• 33:04Speaker 02

  coached, I want them to be selfish, self-absorbed, and ambitious. Those, those things may sound horrible, but I knew if that person was that, I didn't want them to be self-indulgent where they put themselves in front of everybody else. But I wanted people that had those kinds of aspirations to really accomplish something of significance. So, once they, they want to do that, and you make it about them and their development, I, I, I don't, I don't think it's a whole lot different. And, you know, sometimes it takes tough love. But I, I, what I think's happening right now, as I think there's some coaches that are afraid to coach, you know, they're afraid if they get on a guy, or they make a guy do right, or they make him do the right thing, that he's going to get pissed off and leave.

• 33:50Speaker 04

  Right.

• 33:51Speaker 02

  I mean, when they used to come to my office, I don't want to sound arrogant about this, but when I got, and everybody in the building knew.

• 33:58Speaker 04

  Oh, no.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  And you say you want to transfer, he's going to take you by the hand and walk your ass down the hall, all right, to the A D's office and say, sign him up.

• 34:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  I, I, I wasn't going to kiss their ass to keep them to stay. And I would say to the player, I'd say, you know what? We'll get a better player than you out of the portal.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  They didn't know what to say then. So.

• 34:26Speaker 04

  So good. Oh, yes.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  So to answer your question, I think that, yes, the players are different, but I still think the players want the same things that they always wanted. They want to play in the NFL someday. They want to graduate someday. They want to create value. But it's no different than your kids. I mean, you're going to make your kids happy? Or you're going to make them do what's right?

• 34:54Speaker 04

  Right.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Mama's always going to want to make them happy. Sometimes you've got to step up and say.

• 35:00Speaker 04

  No.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  This is, this is what you have to do to do it right. And this is what it takes to do it right. And you have to confront and demand people to be able to do that. And if they know you care about them and have their best interest in mind, they're going to respond to that. I always had guys set goals for themselves. And then I would just go to them and say, hey, how's this kind of behavior going to help you accomplish the goal that you have? And the guy would put his head down and say, it's not. And then I would say, well, why are you doing it? So they would change.

• 35:30Speaker 04

  Yeah. You've, you've said this a lot with the, like, the, this ambitious and like self-driven and guys who are focused on being the best players that they can be in the world. Those are the guys you want. And it resonates so much with me because I've been around other coaches where there was a phrase that a coach I played for used, and it was, it wasn't like a main thing. It was just like a, a thing of the day, right? Where he's just trying to get him motivational. And umbutu, and it was like, the phrase was, I am because we are. And I, in the meeting, I'm just listening to this, I just like, I was so upset with it. Because I'm like, this is putting the onus, if I am because we are, then what is my accountability and the ownership of what's, I put it on everybody else? No, fuck that.

• 36:14Speaker 04

  We are because you are. We are because I like, the team is only as good as each one of us are individually. And it was just this like little thing, but like, that's where I feel like, I don't know, go me, I'll go on, this is why I love listening to Nick talk. I mean, Coach Saban, I, it's, it all resonates so much with me. I don't know if it's like the Americanism in it. There's like, there's an ownership in it, an individualism. I'm serious now. It gets me fired the fuck up.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  I'm with you 100%. I, I say all the time when I give a speech, you know, because everybody says, well, what do you do to make the team? Tell me how you made your team. And I would say, well, you heard the phrase, there's no I in team. And everybody says, yeah. And I say, but there is an I and win. The individuals make the team what it is.

• 37:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, I love it. I love that. Love it.

• 37:06Travis Kelce?

  Well, Coach, you had, so you already talked about being with, being, working with Coach Belichick up in Cleveland. We're Cleveland guys from the east side. We actually used to go play hockey at Kent State growing up. So we got some, some love for the Golden Flashes. In terms of your, like, the coaches that you've worked with, and I'm sure you've gotten hit with this before, but I'm dying to know, the demeanor is very, it's, it's not very similar, it's kind of similar to Belichick's very, your, your, your, the strength and how you talk and how you, how your presence is. In terms of coaches that you've worked

• 37:44Travis Kelce?

  with, who, who was the biggest impact from just your, your upbringing in the coaching world?

• 37:52Speaker 02

  Right. Well, um, look, I learned from all the coaches that I coached with. Some, some things that I would think were good, some things that I would say, I don't necessarily think I'd ever want to do that. But I would say, you know, George Perlis was great when I was defensive coordinator at Michigan State. You know, I probably learned the most from Belichick because of the organization that he had. And the one thing I learned from him that was very helpful is he defined everything in the organization. In other words, we, we

• 38:34Speaker 02

  didn't just, when we were looking at players for the draft, we, we had critical factors for every position, size and speed for every position, character and intelligence for every position. And so you knew what you, you, you, you, like, if we were going after a corner, we wanted six foot, 185, run less than four or five. And so, and then here were the critical factors. You got to be able to play the ball in deep part of the field. You got to be able to play man to man. You got to be able to tackle. Now, we could go take 25 physical skills that it takes to do that. But those three things were critical flaws if a guy couldn't do it. See the ball go up? This guy's fast. He can cover, he

• 39:17Speaker 02

  can do all this stuff, and he can't judge the ball, and the guy catches it? Well, that's a fatal flaw. And so, but he did that for every part of the organization. And, and you knew exactly what was expected of you because your job was defined in terms of what was expected of you. So I used a lot of those same things. And it really is helpful because people know what you expect. I think so many times in coaching and so many coaches that I worked for, they assumed that you knew what they wanted. But they never really told you what they wanted, if that makes any sense.

• 39:55Travis Kelce?

  Man, it makes all the sense.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  That, that kind of organization, I think, helped me, you know, tremendously. And then the way we prepared for a game. You know, I did it the same way. We used the same evaluation system for players. But what we did Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday was the same thing we did in Cleveland when I was at the Browns. All right, we worked on short yardage and goal line, and first and 10, second long on the first day, third down red area the next day, two minute, two point plays the next day. I mean, it was, and, and everybody in the organization knew exactly what to expect when they came and sat their ass in the meeting for that day. You know, I mean, it was so defined.

• 40:41Travis Kelce?

  Machine, man.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  And I think that kind of routine makes people more comfortable, and they also are more confident because they know what to expect, and they know what's expected of them. So I, I just, I mean, that was probably the most impactful thing.

• 41:02Travis Kelce?

  That's so, that's so cool to hear, though.

• 41:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, I think that's awesome. And I think the other thing that stands out, whenever I hear you talk, is just your demeanor. And I think about where you're from in West Virginia, and all these coaches that I'd like really enjoy, from like the Youngstown area, West Virginia, there's a similar demeanor there, and a way about you guys that I feel like just resonates for whatever reason with players. Would you agree with that? Is there something to like, those areas that just make great football coaches? I don't know.

• 41:36Speaker 02

  Uh, I don't know. You guys come from a tough part of town on the east side over there. I got my car stolen when I was recruiting there. I had two o'clock in the afternoon at John Hay High School.

• 41:48Travis Kelce?

  John Hay, oh, no.

• 41:50Speaker 04

  That's crazy.

• 41:51Travis Kelce?

  I've gotten a car stolen from the east side before two coaches. It was Jason's car, actually.

• 42:00Speaker 02

  But I, I do think that, I, I, I think growing up, like, I grew up in a coal mining town.

• 42:07Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  And, you know, the, the, the sort of culture that the people have, you know, the work ethic, the, the kind of people they are, family. And they're just, I, I think all of that is helpful in being a good teacher and a good coach. And caring about other people, having compassion for other people, accountability, you know, not being satisfied so easily. I mean, these are all things that I grew up with, that, you know, that.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  When you start coaching, th- those three things are pretty important so that you don't feel like you rest on your laurels, you want to keep trying to find a better way. You treat people the right way. I just think when you come from those kinds of core values, it really helps to become a good teacher.

• 43:06Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 43:07Travis Kelce?

  Heck yeah. Well, Jason just went into the Hall of Fame with another legendary West Virginia coach. He was on the basketball side, though. The Huggy Bear.

• 43:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:17Travis Kelce?

  Bob Huggins.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  When I coached at West Virginia, he was a G A.

• 43:24Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  His wife sold hot dogs downstairs in the little concession stand that they had.

• 43:30Travis Kelce?

  Nice. That is too good.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  He's a great one, though.

• 43:36Travis Kelce?

  Absolute legend. He brought Cincinnati so much, so much excitement and obviously West Virginia as well when he went, got back there. He was, I think he's actually told the story of, of how I like to say I got recruited by West Virginia, but he tells it that I recruited West Virginia and Coach Huggins as, as, as the, as the flip side of things. You could tell he had very much the similar core values. It felt like his team was a family, but he ran a, he made sure it was tough love and you got better every single day and you were tough as nails, man.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, sometimes as a coach, you know, you have to get people to do things that is in their best interest and to benefit them that they really don't think is important for them to do. I mean, you have to do that. And he had a way of doing that, there's no doubt. And that's why he had so much success for so many years.

• 44:34Speaker 04

  Thank you to our sponsor, Allstate.

• 44:36Travis Kelce?

  Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on home insurance.

• 44:41Speaker 04

  That's right. Not checking if the gutters are clear before the first big rainstorm. That waterfall coming down the side of your house at 2 a.m. is going to have the neighbors thinking you installed a decorative fountain.

• 44:52Travis Kelce?

  Yeah, checking first is the right move. So check Allstate first for a home insurance quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate.

• 45:01Speaker 04

  Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. All right, Coach, we're running a little bit towards the end of this. We do want to get to some of the players you coached and play, people that you've been with. We had an idea for, we're going to name some players or coaches you might have worked with and you give us a story or some type of tidbit. Sound good?

• 45:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:23Travis Kelce?

  Oh, I can't wait.

• 45:25Speaker 04

  Well, let's start with one of my former teammates, Jalen Hurts.

• 45:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, Jalen's one of my all-time favorites. Not because of how he played, but the guy's 26 and 2 as a starter. Gets taken out of the national championship game at halftime. Tua goes in. He supported Tua. He stayed there the next year as a backup just so he could graduate. Worked on becoming a better passer, reading, processing better, more accurate, all that because that's what he needed to do. And when he graduated, he needed to go someplace else for a fifth year. Came to see me. We decided for him to go to Oklahoma. But the thing that I love about Jalen the most is how he handled the disappointment

• 46:13Speaker 02

  as a great competitor of getting taken out of the game and then becoming a 26 and 2 starter that was a backup for a whole year. And when Tua got hurt, went in and won the S C C championship game the next year. So the way he handled that, man, I'm telling you, that's, that's class and it's character.

• 46:34Speaker 04

  Yes, absolutely.

• 46:36Travis Kelce?

  Give me a good story on King Henry, Derrick Henry.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  You know, Derrick was, when he was a freshman, and you know Derrick played in this little school in Florida, it's outside of Jacksonville or someplace, I can't even tell you. I went to a small school. And so we're doing a blitz drill in fall camp and he's a freshman. And he can't figure out who to block and guys are running free in the A gap and shit.

• 47:12Speaker 02

  I said, you know, you, you gotta block this guy. It's this protection, whatever. And he looked at me and he says, Coach, he said, I played high school football. All they did was turn around and toss me the ball and taught me to run with it. I don't know anything about any of this shit that you're talking about.

• 47:35Speaker 04

  He pulled a forest gum.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  What a, what a hardworking guy, though, and such a positive guy. I mean, it would be 100 degrees in Alabama. We're in fall camp and I would walk when guys were doing flex and ask them how they were doing. Every day I would ask Derrick Henry, how you doing today? Glad to be here, Coach. I mean, I don't care how hot it was, how hurt he was, how tired he was, whatever. Was always glad to be here. And he was always ultra positive. And, you know, we have a foundation and we do a whole bunch for a whole bunch of kids. And the first day of practice still, even though I'm not the coach, we do a thing in the stadium where we bring all these kids in, like 100 kids, special needs kids, all

• 48:19Speaker 02

  kinds of kids. And Derrick used to come to that when he was a player. He's in camp now at Baltimore. He gets on the big screen, buys every one of those kids a book bag, a backpack filled with school supplies and gets all, congratulates all the kids and all that. I mean, you're talking about a great human being. I mean, he's a great competitor and what a career he's had. And you know, coming out of high school, most coaches didn't think he could play running back. They were talking to him about playing outside backer and all that.

• 48:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:53Speaker 02

  And you know, my thing, when I was recruiting a guy, I'd ask him, where do you want to play? And he'd say, running back. I'd say, okay, you get to play running back. If I think you don't, you can't play running back, I'll come and talk to you about it and tell you what I think might be better for you. But other than that, you play what you want.

• 49:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  That's how we got him.

• 49:11Speaker 04

  There you go. Good recruiting. What, what, what about my man, Landon Dickerson? Give me something on old Dickerson.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  Oh, man, what a competitive guy. But did you ever see the picture? All right, the guy gets an ACL.

• 49:27Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  I don't know if it was the S C C championship game or the first round of the playoffs, but he's like a week or two out of surgery. So we play Ohio State in the championship game and we're getting ready to kneel on the ball and the score's like, I don't know, 35, 14 or something. But, and he comes up to me and he says, Coach, I want to go in the game. Will you play me in the game? He said, I worked all year so that we could play in a championship game. I said, hey, man, you're two weeks out of ACL. He said, kneel on the ball because I have to snap them off. So I put him in for two plays. All right. And when the horn blows and the game is over, he comes running at me and lifts me up.

• 50:12Travis Kelce?

  That's a big man.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  So happy that he got to play in the game. Two weeks out of ACL surgery. You're talking about a tough guy now.

• 50:22Speaker 04

  Yes, I agree.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Tough guy, great competitor. And I love that guy.

• 50:28Travis Kelce?

  I bought it. I gotta ask you about one more Heisman Trophy winner out of Detroit, Michigan. Mark Ingram, one of my favorite people ever, one of the most entertaining human beings I've ever ran into.

• 50:39Speaker 02

  Oh, well, Mark and I are still close, you know, to this day. I mean, he's always trying to beat me in golf and.

• 50:46Travis Kelce?

  He's got, he's got a big old slice on him, doesn't he?

• 50:49Speaker 02

  He can hit it a long way. It doesn't always go straight.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  I try to convince these young bucks that I play golf with that it's not based on handicap, it's based on age. I'm getting shots because I'm 75 years old, not because of my handicap. Mark doesn't buy that.

• 51:13Speaker 02

  I can tell you a funny story about Mark, though. When I went to recruit Mark, Flint, Michigan, I was at Michigan State when, and I was a defensive coordinator when his dad was playing. Andre Rising and Big Mark, everybody calls him, were playing at Michigan State. Well, George used to go to Europe every summer and I was left in charge. And in those days, you know, you get 18 credits of summer school to get eligible. Well, these two guys usually needed a lot of credits in summer school to get eligible. So only way I could track them down is I knew who Big Mark's girlfriend was. So I would call her and say, where are these guys at? Tell me where they're at. And she'd, she'd tell me. And I'd go find them, take them to class, make them go to class, take a test, whatever.

• 51:59Travis Kelce?

  This is legendary.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Little Mark, I'm sitting talking to the mama. I don't know if that's who I used to be calling to Michigan State.

• 52:13Speaker 02

  So I get I get a two hour recruiting pitch and she's looking at me and and at the end she just gets a big smile on her face and she looks at me and she says I was who you used to call the phone.

• 52:29Travis Kelce?

  That's so good.

• 52:32Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh.

• 52:33Travis Kelce?

  That's absolutely a legendary story.

• 52:36Speaker 02

  But I love Mark. He was a great competitor, great player, had a great career, doing a great job now on TV, so I'm happy for him.

• 52:45Speaker 04

  All right, we got to our we got to ask section, Coach. We got three more questions for you. All six episodes of your documentary Saban are out now and available on ESPN. It's fantastic. I love the Jalen Hurts section as somebody who played with them, very similar to what you just went into on the podcast right here, but looking back at it, what is what is your favorite part or favorite parts?

• 53:09Speaker 02

  You know, I watched a rough cut before they did it. I haven't kind of watched it in sequence now all together. But, you know, my whole thing about the whole thing and because I didn't want to write a book and I didn't want to do that, they kind of talked me into it. And I said, well, then I want this to be something that people can get something out of and I want it to be a tribute to the players and the coaches who contributed to the success for so many years. And if we can do something like that, then I'm interested in doing it. So what I hear from people is I think they did a good job with it and I'm happy that

• 53:54Speaker 02

  they did.

• 53:55Speaker 04

  That's awesome. Perfect answer. It's the perfect answer.

• 53:59Travis Kelce?

  You're the best coach. I already know the answer to this. If you had to recruit one, Kelsey, me or Jason, who are you going with?

• 54:06Speaker 02

  I'm taking you both. I mean, you're.

• 54:08Travis Kelce?

  I just knew you were going with the tougher one, man.

• 54:13Speaker 02

  I'd take you both. You guys are both great competitors. You had great careers for a long time and you're both made out of exactly what we've been talking about here. You know, the kind of people that you want in the organization, the kind of people that are going to impact and affect other people in a positive way because you're great competitors and you're going to work hard and do what you have to do to help your team be successful. I mean, I'd recruit both of you. I'd recruit both of you right now if I was.

• 54:44Speaker 04

  I don't know, this back ain't holding up anymore, but all right, what let me ask you. We ask all of our guests, they're welcome to the NFL moment. What is your welcome to coaching moment?

• 54:55Speaker 02

  You know, I never I never wanted to be a coach.

• 54:58Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  So Ms. Terry and I got married when we were in college. She was a year behind me. We promised our parents would both finish college. That's the only way they'd let us get married. So I'm playing baseball at Kent as well as football. We just lost in the Tangerine Bowl to Freddie Solomon was a quarterback for Tampa and we got to be like 2120 or something. And we come back and I'm getting ready to go to baseball practice and Don James calls me in the office, calls me in and says he wants to talk to me. And, you know, in those days when the head coach called you and you thought it was like going to the principal's office, you know, like, what did I do wrong? And he sits down and he says, I want you to be a graduate assistant. And I said, Coach, I don't want to go to graduate school and I don't want to be a coach. So why would I be a graduate assistant?

• 55:43Speaker 02

  And he said, well, your wife's got another year of school. You can't really go take a job anywhere. So why don't you just getting your master's degree is going to be helpful to you regardless of what you do. So Gary Pinkel, Dom Capers and myself were the three GAs at Kent State.

• 56:00Speaker 04

  Holy cow.

• 56:01Travis Kelce?

  That's insane.

• 56:02Speaker 02

  And I do it for one year. Oh, I like it. So then I was a part time coach, then he went to Washington, then Dennis Fitzgerald got the job, hired me as a coach full time. I'm kind of just doing this because it's fun and it's a job and I like it and it's more like playing, competing. I like it. So when I'm 27 years old, I'm a secondary coach at Ohio State and I finally said, hmm, maybe I should, maybe this is something I ought to get into a little bit and try to be really good at. Not that I wasn't doing my best to do a good job at whatever I was doing, but so that's

• 56:46Speaker 02

  kind of how this whole thing happened. And then we won the championship in 1987 at Michigan State, Big Ten championship, beat Southern Cal and Rose Bowl, had the number one defense in the country and I was the defensive coordinator and I tried to get I tried to get the Kent State job.

• 57:01Speaker 04

  No way.

• 57:03Speaker 02

  Which may be, may be the worst job in America. And I didn't get it.

• 57:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 57:14Speaker 02

  I said, I'll never be a head coach. I'm going to the NFL because in those days you can make a little more money coaching than the NFL. So that's when I went to the Houston Oilers and then two years later I went to Toledo as the head coach. So that's kind of my coaching story of how did I get better than the coach?

• 57:38Travis Kelce?

  That is so good. That is so good.

• 57:41Speaker 04

  Oh, man. Well, Coach, we can't thank you enough for hopping on with us.

• 57:45Travis Kelce?

  Seriously.

• 57:46Speaker 04

  We love watching everything you're doing on College Game Day. Your documentary series out is fantastic. Everything you're doing, man, we just love what you represent for the game of football and life, really. So thank you for hopping on with us.

• 58:02Speaker 02

  Well, I appreciate it. I love doing it. I don't do podcasts. I mean, this may be the second one I've done in my life. I refuse to do it, but my daughter loves you guys and she convinced me that I should do this and I.

• 58:17Travis Kelce?

  Let's go.

• 58:19Speaker 02

  For you guys, so I wanted to do it for you guys, but I just want to leave a message out there for everybody else. I'm not doing this shit anymore.

• 58:27Travis Kelce?

  We got the only one, Coach. You're the greatest. It's an absolute honor. Thank you for the stories. Everybody go check out Saban on ESPN. You can catch Coach this Saturday out in South Bend, Indiana, and you'll never catch him again on a podcast, Coach. We love you, big guy.

• 58:47Speaker 02

  Thanks, guys. Talk to you later.

• 58:50Travis Kelce?

  That was epic.

• 58:51Speaker 04

  And that wraps up another episode of New Heights. Thank you to Coach Nick Saban.

• 58:57Travis Kelce?

  Let's go.

• 58:58Speaker 04

  You can check him out every Saturday on College Game Day as well as all episodes of Saban are streaming now on ESPN and ESPN app.

• 59:08Travis Kelce?

  What a guy. Once again, New Heights, a wonderful show brought to you by Allstate. You're in good hands with Allstate. Follow the show on all social media, at New Heights Show with one S for fun clips throughout the week. We're going to have a bunch of good ones from Saban and thanks to our New Heights production team. We love you guys and we love you 92%ers for tuning in. Hopefully you guys enjoyed this one. Enjoy the weekend, guys. We'll see you next Wednesday.