The 2025 Housing Market is Here! (What to Watch Starting NOW)

Welcome to the 2025 housing market! It’s a new year, and if you’re ready to invest more, get closer to financial independence, or finally find and buy your first home, we’re here to help. We’ve got BIG plans for 2025 and are watching some key economic indicators to help us decide what to do next. But we have already zeroed in on a few investments we’re eager to invest in. Curious about where we’re putting our money in 2025? We’ll share exactly where—and why! We’re recapping our 2024 progress and giving you tips on what to buy based on your goals. Some of us are scaling down this year while others are scaling up, but we all have the same advice for someone who wants to get into the real estate investing game. If you follow this simple, repeatable path we’re laying down, you’ll be investing in no time. Don’t let 2025 pass you by! You could regret sitting on the sidelines! Tune in, take notes, and let’s get wealthier together this year! In This Episode We Cover The easiest way for beginners to start investing in real estate in 2025 Key economic indicators we’re watching during the 2025 housing market What strategies we’re switching up in 2025—and what won’t work this year How to invest based on your goals and whether you should prioritize active vs. passive income Our 2025 goals: how many properties we’ll buy, flip, or test with new strategies And So Much More! Links The House Flipping Framework Scaling Smart Start with Strategy Check out more resources from this show on BiggerPockets.com and https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-1064 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email [email protected]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Dave Meyer?

  Happy New Year, everyone, and welcome to the BiggerPockets Podcast. We know all of you are probably here looking to start your year, whether real estate investing or personally off right. And today, we got a brand new episode for you where we're talking about what to look forward to here in 2025. And from where I sit, where I'm looking at all the data in the day to day of real estate investing, I think there is a lot to be excited about for the upcoming year. And in today's episodes, we're going to talk about specific strategies and some tactics that you can take advantage of as we head into a new year. For this episode, I'm bringing on a couple of my friends, and they are all fellow investors, James Daynard, Kathy Fecky, and Henry Washington.

• 0:50Dave Meyer?

  You may know them as my co-hosts from the On The Market Podcast, but I thought it would be fun to have them on to hear different perspectives from different successful investors who use different strategies, have different goals, and how each of them are going to approach this upcoming year. Before we get into that conversation, though, I just wanted to quickly give you a bit of a heads up and overview of some of the next few episodes because we have some super good shows planned for you that we've been working on for a couple of weeks. And I want to let you know what's coming up. On Friday, we're going to spend some time setting the scene for 2025. And I'm going to actually share with you my predictions about what's going to happen in the housing market in the upcoming year. And hopefully, that will give you some information so that you can make informed decisions

• 1:34Dave Meyer?

  about how to get started this year or how to scale your portfolio. Then on Monday, I have a really fun show planned for you all. I've been working on this for a while, but I've sort of been taking this sort of long-term view about real estate investing, about financial independence, about where the entire economy and housing market has gone. And I'll just give you a preview that I feel super optimistic and super excited about the prospect of real estate investing going forward. And I'm going to spend the episode on Monday just sharing with you why. We're going to get into some long-term trends. We're going to talk about long-term goals. We're going to talk about the realities on the ground. But I really hope to just share with you a blueprint or a plan that I think pretty much anyone can follow to pursue financial independence

• 2:18Dave Meyer?

  using real estate, starting here in 2025 and going forward. So make sure to tune into that episode. With that, let's bring on James, Henry, and Kathy. Henry, let's start with you. If you're trying to build financial freedom over 10, 15 years from now, what would you concentrate on today here in 2025?

• 2:37Henry Washington?

  As a passive investor?

• 2:39Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, someone who's just, you know, they got a full-time job, they're trying to move up their retirement, get financial independence 10 years from now.

• 2:47Henry Washington?

  Yeah, a couple of strategies. First thing I would do is start with where I live. So if I could house hack, I would probably do that. It's just the easiest way to get started in your backyard. So using some sort of homeowner occupied loan, like an FHA or a conventional or a VA and moving into a one to four unit. And then, you know, obviously there's a lot of factors here. But let's say if it was just me and I was single, I'd definitely be trying to do that. If it was just me and I didn't have any kids with a wife, I would definitely be trying to do that. And if it was me and I had one or two kids, I would definitely be trying to do that. Because all of that, you can still live pretty comfortably. You can go get yourself a three, two, you know, even a four, two, four, three duplex on each

• 3:28Henry Washington?

  side and live in it. And the amount of money you'd be able to put towards buying your next property by not having to pay your mortgage every month because somebody else is, is so much great. So one strategy is just do that for like two or three years in a row. If you bought a new multifamily using an owner occupied loan, three years in a row, you're talking, you know, six to 10 doors, depending on how many units those properties have. And then you can just let those things sit for 30 years and you will have a heck of a retirement supplemented without having to go do anything crazy that we talk about on this show all the time. You could just literally live in a multifamily for the next three to five years, make that sacrifice, and you could be set once those things are paid off.

• 4:12Dave Meyer?

  And honestly, it's not that big of a sacrifice.

• 4:14Henry Washington?

  It's not that big of a sacrifice.

• 4:15Dave Meyer?

  It's really not that big a deal.

• 4:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:17Dave Meyer?

  When you consider the outside, it is a very small price to pay.

• 4:21Speaker 03

  Wouldn't financial freedom not become a sacrifice?

• 4:24Henry Washington?

  Right, absolutely.

• 4:25Speaker 03

  You gotta do some sacrificing to get there.

• 4:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:27Dave Meyer?

  What would you do, James? What would be your one thing you would focus on in 2025 if you were just getting started?

• 4:32Speaker 03

  I mean, I like what Henry said. I mean, just getting in the game.

• 4:35Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 4:35Speaker 03

  If you're brand new, you gotta get in the game. To get in the game. Owner occupied financing, you're getting a cheaper rate. You have less money down, there's different financing that's available to you. And I think we could see some inflationary period over the next 12, 24 months. And that means housing could also get more expensive.

• 4:53Dave Meyer?

  Rents could go up.

• 4:54Speaker 03

  Rents could go up, there's everything could go up, right? And the last thing you want is to get choked out by expenses every year. And you just can't get savings in, right? Like where the, the extra expense just prevents you to save. How you create a savings account is getting in the game. Owner occupied, buy the property, let appreciation create your new bank for you. Because it's expensive out there right now. And so I do think you should get into it. As an active flipper though, like I do think, you know, depending on your goals, like if you gotta grow cash, you gotta look at some more high cash flow operational things. And you can still do that, like owner occupied, short-term rentals, flipping midterm rentals. Those are things that require more work.

• 5:33Henry Washington?

  Yeah, I mean, you can owner occupied flip though, too. I mean, that's a great way to get started, just to, to do a live-in flip. Cause then you're not paying the capital gains. If, if you move into a house and it takes you two years to fix it up and you turn around and sell it. I mean, you could turn around, sell it, make 50, 60, 70 grand tax-free because you lived in it for two out of five years. Like the owner occupied is an amazing way to get started, passive or active.

• 5:55Dave Meyer?

  I think the live-in flip is the most underrated way to get started in real estate at this sake.

• 5:59Speaker 03

  The live-in flip changed my whole life.

• 6:01Dave Meyer?

  Tell us.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  I mean, I, we're on what property number six? I mean, my wife cut me off now. I think I'm officially cut off.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  Oh, man, I ran that high rev until the end and we landed where we needed to land. If I went for number seven, it's not going to be a tax savings. It's going to be half the loss of my wealth, but it's a.

• 6:24Speaker 03

  There is a breaking point, but just buying, creating that tax-free, move in again, move it again. I mean, we talked about sacrifice, the live-in flip. The best thing in my opinion is don't be picky about where you're going to live. Buy the best possible deal. It's a two-year thing. You stay there, you sell it, you take that tax and then we rolled it every time. That tax savings went right into the next property. Because you create that, you can go buy something that needs more work. Right? Because the stuff, you know, when you're owner occupied buyer to do the fix up work, you got to come up with your down payment and the cash out of pocket. That makes it just a struggle to do this. But by buying it, selling it, get the tax savings every time we were able to sell it, then go buy another property with 10% down, take the remaining savings, put it into

• 7:08Speaker 03

  our construction and then improve it again. And by doing that, you know, I mean, we're talking real money, that's six times at a 500 grand tax free hit.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, for people who don't know, you have to live there for two years. You can rent it for three years after you leave. And then when you sell it, if you're single, you get $250,000 of the increase in value tax free. If you're married, you get up to $500,000 tax free. And it's maybe hard to imagine improving a property that increases in value by 500,000, but it's very doable, especially in high priced markets like California.

• 7:46Dave Meyer?

  And you get residential owner occupied financing to buy the deal too. You could put less money down. Sometimes you could put five, 10% down. You get a lower interest rate. There's so many reasons to do it. It's like for other people, it's a lot of the benefits of house hacking, but it's just a big equity hit instead of sort of like the long term building. It sort of goes back to what we talked about passive versus active.

• 8:08Henry Washington?

  And I want to point something out because we're all talking about what we would do, but it's not just what we would do, right? This is something that we all either did or actively do. My second deal was a house hack and it changed my life. James is selling his last live in flip right now. Dave, I know you lived in a house hack and Kathy's living in one right now.

• 8:34Henry Washington?

  This is so powerful that we all do it. We all have different investment strategies, but we all do this one. That has to tell you something.

• 8:41Dave Meyer?

  That is so true. I it's this, this idea that, I mean, you know, I know Rich Dad, Poor Dad got a lot of people into this industry and that's great. But in that book, they talk about how your primary home is not an asset. I think that's a huge mistake.

• 8:55Speaker 02

  I never bought into that one.

• 8:56Dave Meyer?

  Huge mistake.

• 8:57Speaker 03

  That boils my Blood when I hear.

• 9:01Speaker 03

  That is the worst piece of advice I've ever heard. Now, it makes sometimes sense to rent over buy. I do think that in certain markets.

• 9:09Dave Meyer?

  Yes, yeah.

• 9:10Speaker 03

  Oh, like the tax savings you can save on that. That is absurd.

• 9:14Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, it doesn't make sense. I think for some people, that mindset shift of like, don't go buy your dream home. That might not be a good investment. That is true. But if you just blanket right off your primary residence as a way to build wealth, like that is crazy. That is, it is such a good way to do it. Everyone does it. And I think especially if you're getting started in the next year, like that to me is such a good way to get into the game.

• 9:41Speaker 03

  And I think getting started for next year, the most important thing for anybody, you have to know debt. That's the biggest thing. What access to capital you have. So anybody's new, go get pre-qualified.

• 9:52Dave Meyer?

  Yes.

• 9:52Speaker 03

  The first strategy you need to do is find out how much money you can get, then create your plan. Everyone skips that. They're like, I want the deal. I'm like, what kind of financing you get? I'm not sure.

• 10:01Dave Meyer?

  I do. It's the same thing. People are like, oh, I don't know how much I could lend. It's like, literally, there's loan officers. Their whole job is to tell you.

• 10:08Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 10:08Dave Meyer?

  How much money you can borrow and they'll do it for free and they're eager to do it.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  And they'll tell you what you need to do to get there, right? What you need to work on.

• 10:16Dave Meyer?

  That's the easiest thing to do. Thank you for saying that, Jim. That is such a good point. I think that, you know, people get a lot really sort of intimidated by how much mortgage rates have gone. And sort of they like, think, oh no, I can't do it or I can't make it work. When they don't actually have an answer to specifically or personally what their situation is going to be, what their interest rate is going to be, what their LTV has to be. And if you don't know that, you really can't, like you said, start looking at deals because you can't underwrite a deal without knowing what you're paying for your debt unless you're buying for cash, which is not very common. Okay, time for a quick word from our sponsors, but when we come back, we will get into it about some of the realities of the current market. And we'll talk about strategies that do and don't work. So stick around.

• 11:02Dave Meyer?

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• 11:43Dave Meyer?

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• 12:01Henry Washington?

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• 12:43Henry Washington?

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• 12:59Henry Washington?

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• 13:40Henry Washington?

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• 14:03Dave Meyer?

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• 14:46Dave Meyer?

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• 15:06Dave Meyer?

  Welcome back, investors. We're here talking about what we're excited about here in 2020. 25. So let's jump back into it. All right. Well, this is great advice so far, but Kathy, I got to ask you now. Now we've taken some of the good ones. We're going to put you in the hot seat for your strategy for getting started in 2025.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. The first thing is to give yourself an audit, you know, look at where you are in life. Are you just starting out? Are you looking for a career then? And you really into real estate, then make real estate your career. That, like I said, there's so many ways to make it your career and any one of them is going to give you the information you need to be better at it. Like I said, if you just get a job as a property manager, think of all the things you're going to learn. If you become a real estate agent, think of all the things you're going to learn, a title agent, whatever. There are so many jobs in real estate, construction that would help you if you're just starting out. And if you're just starting out on any career and you're not making a lot of money,

• 16:03Speaker 02

  then you know, you might be able to do a few flips and replace your income. So it just, it just depends. Do an audit. And let's say you already have a career and you have money, you like your career. Then you just want to invest, like we talked about passive investing. Then you need to really set aside, like really study. That would be the next thing. Study. How to do it? Because I'll give my niece who I adore, I'll use her as an example. She's a real estate agent, does amazing. Really successful real estate agent. And she said to me the other day, I was making so much money and I spent it all. Why didn't somebody just tell me to invest? And I looked at her and said, do you even know who your auntie is?

• 16:45Dave Meyer?

  Listen to your aunt.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  I wrote a freaking book on the topic. Okay. Like, okay. Don't blame anyone but yourself for not setting aside some money to invest. She's like, I would probably be retired now. If you're making money, you've got to at least put 10% aside to invest in whatever you're investing in. So one of the hardest things when you make money is that half of it, you get to this point in life where you're like, oh my gosh, I make all this money now. And then you go. I pay so much in tax. I don't even take that money home. I work so hard for it. So, understanding the tax benefits too of investing. A doctor came over to our house the other day who lives nearby and I just assumed he made a bunch of money, but he has so many expenses that, you know, it's, it's kind of hard to keep up and save.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  But his wife is a stay at home mom. And what I tried to explain to him is if you make your wife sort of the real estate investor and she takes care of all the investments and, and manages your future portfolio, you're going to get so many tax benefits. It's going to help you get there faster. So that, you know, if you're, if you have money already, then your next step is to learn, to just study like, like crazy to understand the opportunities that are there for you.

• 18:01Dave Meyer?

  Great. Yeah, I love it. Absolutely. Self educating. Learn this business that you want to get into. So many people want to go and rush to the fun part, which is buying deals or selling deals is even more fun because you, you, that's when you get the money. But, you know, learning is going to set you up to have many acquisitions, have many dispositions over the course of your career.

• 18:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 18:20Dave Meyer?

  All right. Well, I've, I have two quick pieces of advice for people who want to get started. Number one is practice. We talked about learning and educating yourself, but actually put those things into practice and specifically talking about analyzing deals. Go out there and just start looking at as many deals as you can. Do what James said. Go talk to a loan officer. Do your life audit. Figure that stuff out. And then just get some practice in, like everything you do. You have to do it poorly for a little while and you're going to get better at it. And luckily analyzing real estate deals, it's not actually really that hard. But if you learn how to do it, if you do it 20 times, if you do it 50 times, when you're actually ready to go buy the deal, you're going to feel really confident in your numbers.

• 19:05Dave Meyer?

  It's going to help you actually pull the trigger. So that's my number one advice. If you're sitting here in January 2025, do everything we said and then just go practice. Learn how to analyze deals. You're going to get good at it pretty quickly. I promise you. A second thing I would say. Is don't sleep on out of state investing. I know this is controversial, but I actually think that in this sort of like new era of real estate investing where things are a little bit more expensive, that looking to affordable markets is a great way to get started. Yeah, if you're in an expensive market, look at a live and flip. We just talked about how great it is. Look at owner occupied strategies. But if you want to be super passive, if you just want to pay a property manager to do stuff, I do this. Look at out of state markets

• 19:45Dave Meyer?

  where you can buy duplexes for 250 grand or 300 grand or 400 grand and get some cash flow. And is it going to retire you this year? No, it is not probably going to retire you this year. But if you project out rent growth for 10 years, you're going to be sitting pretty. And so just have that patience, think about looking elsewhere. If you don't live in one of these markets that's affordable. So those are my two pieces of advice.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  I just want to make a comment on what you said, Dave, because I think there's still so much confusion about active versus passive. So people need quick money, right? They need money today to live on. They need cash flow today to cover their costs and to have extra to be able to invest. And then you have passive, which is not necessarily going to provide you anything today, but it will, it's for the future. It's like investing in the stock market. You're not getting cash flow from that, but you're looking at your future. So these two things get confused a lot. And it's really important to identify which one it is.

• 20:43Dave Meyer?

  Yes.

• 20:44Speaker 02

  Are you actively trying to make money to pay your bills? Or are you buying something for 10, 20 years from now? And as soon as you can get really clear on that strategy, then you'll know what to do.

• 20:58Dave Meyer?

  Yep.

• 20:58Speaker 02

  You know, because with a new investor, it's like, what are you trying to do? Are you trying to make money today? Because there's lots of ways to make money in real estate. You can be a real estate agent. You could be a loan broker. You could, you know, be a property manager. If you wanted to just get in and learn the business, you could be a flipper. You know, that's going to, that's another step of being complicated. You're going to need to borrow money and so on. Let's say, I just did a coaching call with somebody we all know. And he was like, Like, I want to make money from flipping. And then he realized, I don't really like it. And I'm like, well, you know what? You're really good at what you do. Why don't you do the thing you do for the money to make today?

• 21:37Dave Meyer?

  Exactly.

• 21:37Speaker 02

  And use that money to invest for the long term, right?

• 21:40Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, a total percent. I think you just broke James's heart when someone said that he didn't like flipping, but.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  It's just not for everybody.

• 21:46Speaker 03

  No, it's not. It is not for everybody.

• 21:47Dave Meyer?

  I totally agree. And I think it's this, this funny thing. Cause yeah, Kathy, you said it very well. I, in my, in my book, and Jay Scott came up with this, but he calls like one half of it like transactional income. You need to trade your time for money.

• 22:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 22:02Dave Meyer?

  To live off of, right? Like, that's your transactional income side. Then you have your passive income side to, you know, build long-term wealth, create a, basically some annuities. So that when you retire, you have that cash flow coming in every single month. But they're not the same thing. And you can choose, you have the option to do both of them in real estate. Like Kathy just said, you can get your transactional short-term income from real estate. But you don't have to. That is an optional piece. Like Henry and James have both chosen to do that. I choose not to do that. I do kind of work in real estate, but I actually work for a software and media company.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  I've had doctors who make a million dollars a year, want to be flipping. It's like.

• 22:44Dave Meyer?

  No.

• 22:45Speaker 02

  Dude, just, what are you doing? You spent 10 years trying to be a doctor, unless you hate it.

• 22:51Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, right.

• 22:51Speaker 02

  You know, why would you want your new active income to be a totally different business? I, I don't know.

• 22:56Dave Meyer?

  No, I, I agree. And I think the distinction is, it's not trivial. It's, it's actually quite important. Because what happens when you confuse these two types of income? It can be a little bit paralyzing, I think, when you get into real estate or you want to get into real estate. And you're looking at deals today and say, hey, I'm only going to get, you know, a break even cash flow, a little bit better than break even cash flow. Like, that's not 1% rule. That's not a 10% cash on cash return. Well, if you're not using this money to fuel your immediate term needs, then who cares? You should be buying assets that are going to perform over the lifetime of your portfolio, which could be. 10 years, it could be 20 years, it could be 30 years.

• 23:41Dave Meyer?

  But if that confusion, I think, prevents so many people from getting in. Like, I personally bought a bunch of deals last year because I'm investing for 10 or 20 years from now. And it's pretty easy for me to identify assets that I think are going to be great 20 years from now. If I was trying to replace my income next year, it would get a whole lot more complicated. And I would have to do a whole bunch of extra work that frankly, right now, I'm not willing to do. So for everyone listening, as we're starting a new year, think about these things and what you're trying to accomplish. And that really sort of sets the framework for you to build the buy box and to develop a strategy as we head into 2025.

• 24:19Speaker 03

  Well, and I think it's important, too, active versus passive. Like Kathy said, over five years, they did well. That's the point of holding properties, is that long-term appreciation. But then think about how you want to be an active or passive investor. You can be passive and still not have to wait five years.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  True.

• 24:36Speaker 03

  You could do hard money loans instead. There's so many different ways, like, you don't have to be a flipper to get involved in flipping. You can be the lender for flipping and make 10 to 12% on your money and one to two points on that loan. You can also invest with a flipper, or you can invest in development. You can invest with, you know, someone like Kathy, who does bigger transactions that puts a deal together where you can make that higher return. It's just about picking the asset class, but really, it's also about what's your risk tolerance? That's the biggest thing people need to think about is the more money you try to make over 12 months, the higher risk is going to be.

• 25:09Dave Meyer?

  Hundred percent.

• 25:10Speaker 03

  A five-year hold is going to be more stable. You're protecting your investments. And if you want to do hard money loans, it's a little bit riskier. You want to flip a house, it's going to be riskier. Developing is going to be riskier, but you got to make that choice yourself. And that's why it's really important for people to write down on a piece of paper where they want to be in 12 months, three years, and five years. Based on where you want to be, choose your risk.

• 25:32Dave Meyer?

  Well, that's a good question. What are your goals for this year? Henry, I'll start with you.

• 25:36Henry Washington?

  Uh, man, my goals for this year are, I kind of keep the same business goals each year. I like the

• 25:43Dave Meyer?

  Make money.

• 25:44Henry Washington?

  Right. I like the level of business that I'm at. So my goals for next year are we want to flip 20 properties. This year we did 18 when I totaled it up last week.

• 25:53Dave Meyer?

  Nice dude.

• 25:54Henry Washington?

  So we, we did 18 in 2024. We want to do 20 to 25 in 2025. In terms of rental properties, um, we're scaling back. Um, I've grown my portfolio to a point that I'm comfortable with. I'm going to continue to buy, um, but I will only buy properties that are no brainers to buy in terms of location and cash flow. Cash flow in year one and two, or I will only buy when my accountant says you need to buy X amount more so that you don't have to pay tax on the income you've made everywhere else. So that's what's gonna determine what I'd buy.

• 26:28Dave Meyer?

  Yeah. Cause so we were just talking about active versus passive and like we were sort of saying, you could still buy, at least I do buy long-term rentals for the long-term. But you're saying you're slowing down, but you're in a unique position because you use your real estate as your short-term income as well. So like, how are you making that decision about what rentals to do and sort of focusing some of your portfolio and growth on long-term? And some of it on short-term. Like how, how do you think that through and set those goals for the year?

• 26:57Henry Washington?

  What I choose to, to keep and monetize as a rental versus flipping really has a lot to do with how I find deals. Because I'm marketing for deals off-market consistently, I am truly keeping the ones that make the most financial sense and that I like the most. And so I've got about nine active projects going on right now and one of those, only one of those I will keep as a rental. But the one I'm keeping as a rental is in an area that does really well with short-term rentals. I'm buying it at a price point that I could rent it out at a long-term rental and it will cash flow very well. I paid $45,000 for it and it's worth 275, uh, all fixed up.

• 27:38Dave Meyer?

  Pretty good spread.

• 27:39Henry Washington?

  And so I can rent that thing for 1,800 bucks a month, long-term and make money. It's in a market where it would do well as a short-term rental. So that will maximize the cash flow. Or I could turn around and flip it. And so the reason I like keeping that one as a rental is A, because of the price point that allows me to monetize it multiple ways. So if something goes bad with plan A, I've got a plan B and plan C. The second reason I'm keeping that one as a rental is because I can monetize it as a short-term rental and I bought it so well. So I can get maximum cash flow because I bought it so well. And I would much rather keep that asset because I can get maximum cash flow versus just selling it and taking the money and turning it into another property. And the third reason is just lifestyle in general. I would like to have a property that's right by

• 28:24Henry Washington?

  a lake and I can use it when I want to and take my kids there. And so that's kind of the benefit of marketing and finding your own deals. And then you can understand what are your criteria for wanting to keep a property and you can keep the ones that makes the most sense to you. Like you could buy these same nine properties and you might not keep this one. It just may be different for you. So it's just about understanding what you want in terms of a return and then what are your exits and then choosing the one that makes the most sense for your business and your family.

• 28:53Dave Meyer?

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• 29:36Dave Meyer?

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• 29:59Henry Washington?

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• 30:43Henry Washington?

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• 30:59Dave Meyer?

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• 31:44Dave Meyer?

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• 32:29Dave Meyer?

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• 33:05Henry Washington?

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• 34:17Dave Meyer?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to the show. All right, James, what are your goals for 2025?

• 34:22Speaker 03

  The 2025, actually, one of my biggest goals is to get my passive flipping business going in Arizona.

• 34:27Dave Meyer?

  Oh, cool. I'm honest.

• 34:28Speaker 03

  You know, we landed here, I'm an operator up in Seattle. I don't want to operate in two states. I will maybe on a very small scale, but it's more about just meeting, building that network and providing funding and financing. So I can get this steam rolling down in the desert. So I'm gonna be wet and dry. Those are the two spots I'll be investing in.

• 34:49Dave Meyer?

  Just for everyone to know is like James been an operator in Seattle, runs a big flipping rental business, does everything there. But you moved to Arizona and so what you're basically, you're saying like, you don't want to start a whole operation where you're doing the actual flips yourself in Arizona. But you want to sort of build the more passive business where you live outside of Phoenix, right? Or in Phoenix?

• 35:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it's, the reason I want to do it more passive is I'm a firm believer, if you're doing something well and it's working, don't just forget about it because I see this happen all the time. They're like, oh, I want to go do this now. I want to go do this now. But then they leave this thing that was a good income producing system behind. And so Seattle's busy for us. It is my backyard. I know it like the back of my hand. This is where I will always invest. As I made that plan, I'm like, I don't have time to operate both. So how do I do that? Is I got to partner up with operators down in Arizona. I'm still going to do what we do in Seattle. And my other goal is to also pick up some rental properties in Arizona because I'm a backyard investor. I've only bought in rental properties in Washington state and now I can diversify a little bit.

• 35:53Speaker 03

  Different type of market, different type of politics. I'm going to pick up some rental units there and I'm going to focus on the smaller stuff. I like two to 10 because we buy a lot of 20 to 50 units in Seattle. I like to hedge against whatever our partnership's doing because it balances out my portfolio. So if we're buying 30 to 50, I'm going to buy smaller personally. And as a partnership, if we go to smaller, I'm going to buy bigger and that way it balances me out as an investor. But I'm really excited to kind of get this going down in Arizona and just. To pick up some more rentals.

• 36:26Dave Meyer?

  I totally agree. I think, I mean, well, I'll get to my goals later, but I actually think this year is a good year to buy rental properties. I know the cash flow is not as good as it once was in year one, but I think there is a lot of long-term trends that are pointing towards rental properties being a great business as they've always been. And I don't think they're going to get any cheaper. So I agree with you that rental properties are probably a good one. Kathy, what are your goals? You're observing, but you know, I know you're observing the market, but I'm sure you have some goals as well.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, we were sticking with what we know, which is rental property and finding the hottest markets, helping other investors invest in those markets that we've been doing for 20 years regardless of what's going on. And anytime I veered from that, I kind of got myself in trouble. So just like James just said, like, we're sticking with what we know, which is getting ahead of the path of progress, getting in front of where the growth is and buying rental properties in those areas. So more of that, but also there was the IMN Single Family Rental Conference just recently. I know Henry was there. One of the slides that they showed was this demand for build to rent still

• 37:37Speaker 02

  with 2025, 2026 being probably the highest demand and yet the lowest inventory for it because so many builders have kind of gotten wiped out with the with higher interest rates. But with our team and the bank relationships that we have, we're able to make the numbers work. So more syndications we have on right now in San Antonio. We plan on doing another one in the Dallas area. So we expect to do a few more build to rent syndications. And also, like I said, really keeping an eye on commercial real estate, multifamily, possibly industrial as those loans come due and we're able to negotiate some really good prices. In the building side of our business, it's always only worked out when we could get the deal really cheap, just like, you know, it's real estate.

• 38:21Speaker 02

  So when you find a distressed landowner or builder and you can kind of save them from the problem that they're having, you can make the numbers work and that's what we've been doing for 15 years and think we'll have a lot of opportunity in 2025.

• 38:35Dave Meyer?

  Awesome. Well, good luck. I agree with all those points. It sounds like a very good goals.

• 38:41Speaker 02

  And then personally, yeah, for sure. More rentals. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act kind of gets renewed where you get the hundred percent bonus depreciation, I think I'll be getting some short-term rentals as well because those tax write-offs are insane.

• 38:54Dave Meyer?

  And I think there's a very good chance that's going to happen.

• 38:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:58Dave Meyer?

  Well, I'm thinking about my goals and I'm basically ignoring all of your advice where you're saying stick with what you know, because I, as you might know, I am partnering with James and we're flipping a house and I am doing something I know literally nothing about. I have never flipped a house, but luckily James is teaching me. So I feel like this is a good opportunity. So that is my one goal is to successfully complete my first flip with James. It really all depends on James. I'm not doing anything. So hopefully my goal is that just James continues to be good at what he does.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  Man, I would move to Seattle just to have that opportunity. That's awesome.

• 39:35Speaker 03

  A demo just started, Dave. We are rolling.

• 39:38Dave Meyer?

  I like it. That's awesome. Well, my other goals are sort of just to your point, Kathy, James, all of you have been saying this. It's just sort of sticking with my long-term strategy, which is just continuing to acquire rental properties. I'm hopefully going to buy, you know, five, eight more units somewhere in the Midwest. I like to do one multifamily syndication a year. That's sort of something I've been doing for the last few years. Because if you're in that business, you know, they usually have a five, seven-year hold. You know, I've been doing this for five years now. So hopefully they'll start to sell, maybe not this year, but in a couple of years. They'll start to sell and pay off and that will become a more predictable source of income and liquidity for me.

• 40:16Dave Meyer?

  And then my other goal is to help people, real estate investors, recognize the opportunities that are here in 2025. I don't know if you guys see this, but I feel like there's a lot of negative sentiment about real estate investing industry right now. And I get it. It is very, it is a very different world than where we were a couple of years ago. But from where I sit, and I have spent a lot of weeks doing this over the last few weeks, just like looking at different asset classes, looking at The future of real estate. Like, I still think real estate fundamentals are great. I still think that the future is very bright. And I don't personally see any other asset class that can offer the same potential to build financial freedom as real estate.

• 41:01Dave Meyer?

  And as we were saying, it doesn't take two years, it doesn't take four years unless you're starting with millions of dollars. But if you want to put 10 years into this business, like, I still think you can get financial freedom just as well as you've always been able to. I just think people have these expectations that are sort of left over from this Goldilocks period of a few years ago that are unrealistic. And so my hope, like, on a personal level, outside of my own portfolio, is to help people see that this is, there's just huge opportunity here to get started in real estate, to build your portfolio, even if you have it. And I'm excited for it because I really believe it. And hopefully you guys can help me, help me work on that one goal.

• 41:41Henry Washington?

  I'm all in for that.

• 41:41Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 41:43Dave Meyer?

  All right, one last thing before we get out of here. James, what's, uh, what's the one thing outside of real estate that you're excited for in 2025?

• 41:51Speaker 03

  Like investing wise?

• 41:52Dave Meyer?

  No, no.

• 41:54Speaker 03

  Just in general?

• 41:55Dave Meyer?

  Outside of real estate.

• 41:56Henry Washington?

  He's like, cannot compute, must make money.

• 42:00Speaker 03

  People have a lot of hobbies and I always say my hobby is getting a deal done. That's like what I love doing. But, you know, for 2025, one of my goals is to get a little bit more passive and to spend a little bit more time helping coaching.

• 42:13Dave Meyer?

  Okay, you didn't answer the question. That's nothing to do with real estate. We're skipping you.

• 42:17Speaker 03

  Coaching my son on his baseball team.

• 42:21Speaker 03

  No, no real estate coaching, baseball, sports. Yeah, yeah, yeah, real life coaching.

• 42:26Dave Meyer?

  We got them. Okay. What about you, Kathy? What's something you're looking forward to?

• 42:30Speaker 02

  My daughter is really into charity and she put, she did this volunteer thing in Denver and Rich went and we, we won, you know, in the auction, we paid for it, but a trip to Nepal. So, um, yeah, yeah, with the, the people who put on the foundation. So part of it is going to the orphanage there and seeing what we donated to. And the other is like Nepal. So, uh, that's exciting.

• 42:57Dave Meyer?

  So cool. That's awesome. All right. See, James, there's a good outside of real estate. What about you, Henry?

• 43:05Henry Washington?

  Uh, the thing I'm most looking forward to is in 2025, I celebrate 10 years married.

• 43:11Dave Meyer?

  Woo!

• 43:11Henry Washington?

  Uh, to Jessica. And so that actually happens next month and we're gonna take a cruise out of the country and just hang out with each other. And uh, that's, I'm super excited about that. But two things I'm excited about that are slightly, or that are pretty much related to real estate is one, BPCon 2025 is gonna be insane. I cannot wait for that.

• 43:33Dave Meyer?

  Can't wait.

• 43:34Henry Washington?

  Las Vegas.

• 43:35Dave Meyer?

  If you guys don't know, Henry and I are planning to go for three weeks to Las Vegas.

• 43:38Henry Washington?

  Yes.

• 43:39Dave Meyer?

  Oh my God.

• 43:40Henry Washington?

  It's gonna be insane.

• 43:44Henry Washington?

  Um, and then the other thing I'm super excited about in 2025 is uh, buying a deal with you.

• 43:50Dave Meyer?

  A lake effect cash flow.

• 43:51Henry Washington?

  Buying a lake effect cash flow deal with Dave this year.

• 43:54Dave Meyer?

  Yeah. Oh, I'm going to the Midwest.

• 43:56Henry Washington?

  Going to the Midwest and eating sandwiches and buying like effect cash flow deals. So I'm super excited about those things.

• 44:02Dave Meyer?

  Well, I am too, but you kind of cheated. You talked about real estate stuff, but I like it.

• 44:06Henry Washington?

  Yes.

• 44:07Dave Meyer?

  I'm excited for those two things. This is gonna be very fun. All right, well, my, my personal thing is if you guys don't know, I've lived in Europe for five years. I just moved back to the United States and I'm excited to be back in the States to see my friends and my family. Uh, and to uh, be closer to all of you. Uh, and uh, just continue doing what I'm doing. Everything's good. I'm excited. Yay! All right, well, thank you all so much for joining us for this episode. This was a lot of fun. I hope you all had a wonderful New Year's, a wonderful holiday season and are as excited as we all are about investing, building our portfolios, moving towards financial independence here in 2025. If you are on the train, which I hope you are, make sure to check out On The Market.

• 44:51Dave Meyer?

  Make sure to check out the BiggerPockets Podcast. Make sure to check out all of the assets that we have here at BiggerPockets. They all exist for you to help you achieve financial freedom through real estate. So come back to the podcast and join us every week as we all work together to achieve our financial goals. Thanks so much for listening to this episode and we'll see you soon.

• 45:11Speaker 04

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